Dennis & Julie: Aging

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It's Dennis and Julie time. I'm Dennis, as in Prager. That's Julie, as in Hartman.

Shalom.

There we go again. Julie is— you're in love with the word shalom.

It's so fun. It's really fun to say. Yes.

Well, you know, as it happens, shalom means peace. That's what the word means.

Yes.

Which is its own etymology, which is— you and I love etymology. Oh, yeah. It's really fascinating.

Mario Pye, The Story of Language. Best book ever.

I love that I write—

I did a whole show on it.

I know. I love that you love it. That is the study of language. Interestingly, just for those— anyone should be interested in this— shalom comes from the Hebrew word, or is related directly to the Hebrew word shalem. It sounds very similar. It's the same consonants. Hebrew words work by consonant, not by vowel. Vowels are added on as dots and and little lines. Anyway, uh, shalem means complete. So it's, it, it's, it's fascinating. Peace and completeness are sort of related. And what else did I want to say about that? Oh yes, so shalom means peace. It also is hello and goodbye.

I know, that's why I say at the beginning and I say it at the end, you know, I I love saying it to random people, like the guy who's checking me out at the grocery store. Do you do this? Oh, of course, just to see their reaction. By the way, when I was in Israel, we went to Carmel Market in Tel Aviv, which is this huge, huge bazaar in the center of the city, and it was Friday. And so I was walking by everyone and I go, Shabbat shalom, Shabbat shalom, and like to everyone, and they just looked at me like this Gentile American saying it. It was so fun to see their reactions. But anyway, yeah, in Los Angeles, California, I'll go up to people, I'll just say shalom randomly. And so one night before Shabbat, I was going to the local Whole Foods to get some green beans because our Shabbat crew asked me to bring a side of vegetables. And so I was checking out and there was this guy, I remember his name is Tanner. He had a sticker named Tanner, and he looked like a surfer bro, typical LA guy working at a Whole Foods. And I said to him, Shabbat shalom. And you know what he said to me?

What?

He paused for a moment, and then he looked— he kind of like darted his eyes, and he looked really nervous, and he goes, sí, which is yes in Spanish.

Why did he do that?

I think he thought I was speaking Spanish.

Oh God.

Isn't that precious? Shabbat shalom. He goes, sí.

Well, I was waiting for a different punchline.

What? Tanner said, "Oh, Shabbat Shalom." No, he looked at me like I was an Oompa Loompa.

So you say Shabbat Shalom to random people?

Totally. Literally, not even just to Tanner.

So, hello, I got a question.

Oh, Shalom.

At what age did you know you were a character?

Oh my gosh, I am a dull character now compared to who I was when I was like 3, 4, or 5.

So you say you—

from the time that I was conscious of my existence, I was a character. You know what's interesting? I, when I was really young, I didn't have behavioral problems, but I was kind of a clown in class.

Well, of course I believe that.

Really?

Well, if you're a character, you have to act it out.

Well, I got so serious by the time I got to like 5th grade that I turned into the class clown into the class nerd. But I remember in, in second grade, my teacher having to call my parents and, and talk with me about my, my theatricality and interrupting the, the, the lesson.

So you were in second grade 16 years ago.

Oh my gosh, wow, wait, that's a long time ago.

It seems like a long time ago. That is so fun.

It is. I'm old. No offense. No offense to you.

Why the hell would I be offended? You know, it's, it, you know, by the way, that I'm not going to get into it in detail, but it is not a good sign in a society that equates old as negative.

It's really true.

And it's new. Old in almost every traditional society was venerated.

Right. So when, when do you think that changed?

I, I, I don't know. It's a great question. I like so much other pathology. The '60s seems to be a culprit. Never trust anyone over 30. My parents' generation would never have thought that idea, let alone said it. Never trust anyone over 30. Their grandparents were venerated.

Right. I want you to remember what you were, you were saying that I was in second grade 16 years ago, whatever you were going to say.

No, no, no, that was it.

Well, it feels so long ago. It's really amazing to me how time flies. But I think you're right that this has happened in the '60s. And obviously, as you kind of implied, like, we can't blame everything on the '60s, but that does seem to be when it emerged. You know, the death of conservatism and religion and the lack of veneration of old people, they all kind of go hand in hand.

Yeah.

Like they're all kind of first cousins of one another because think about what conservatism is. It's conserving the best, the best principles, ideas, values, art, architecture, music. And as there's been an attack on conservatism, we also kind of attack or don't appreciate people like old people who are in and of themselves, even if they're not politically conservative, they're embodiments almost of conservatism in that they teach us about the past and they have wisdom to pass on to us. As we reject that as a whole on society, it makes sense that we rejected on a micro level too.

Oh, look, obviously I think they're related. That's why I mentioned the '60s, right? When I think about it, though, I'm trying to think how I regarded my grandparents. And I have no sense of thinking, oh, they're old, they're, they're, they're not winners or whatever it is that people would associate with the word old. And I'm not, I said this when I was 30. I mean, I'm not saying this 'cause I'm old now. But it's so funny, I don't even, it doesn't bother me to say I'm old. So therefore what? Am I less vibrant? Am I less bright? Am I less anything? Aren't I, at least I'm blessed, but aren't I more of everything I was? I'm not less in any way. I just walk slower. That's literally the only arena that I could tell that I have aged. And that doesn't really bother me.

The reason I said no offense, it's, it's— I'm contemplating why. It's because it's almost a joke now in society when someone who's young says something about, oh, I'm getting old or I'm turning this age next month. And then someone older will go, oh, well, thanks a lot. You know, think about how I feel. There's this weird kind of— do you agree that it's—

yes, it's kind of a joke? Not a matter of agree. That was— that's, that's been my point since, since you asked that question.

But I think the old— forgive me for interrupting, but I think a lot of the times it's older people who are doing that. In my case, I said to you, no offense, but usually I find when I'm, I'm saying something, it's the old— older person who initiates the joke about how old they are.

Yeah, well, it's a preemptive strike.

Right.

That's pretty much what it is. It doesn't speak well for the society that the— there was so little respect for age. Now, by the way, there are many people my age who are fools. There are old fools and there are young fools, and there are old wise and there's young wise. You're young wise. So it— anyway, it's not— well, I— it's not, it's not true. It's not here or there. It is, it is a bad sign that, that people— see, I don't mind when— this is an interesting topic. I don't mind if people want to look younger. I— that makes sense to me, and it has always been that way where Obviously it was not available to most people. It was no— it was only available to the very wealthy, but they would get their oils and whatever they could do. I mean, you can, you can overdo anything, but I would say that as people age, if they want to look younger, I, I find that commendable. Which is not a popular stance to hold today. I mean, I happen to support women in general. Some women have stunningly beautiful white hair. My mother was an example. But for women to dye their hair, I don't think anybody should knock that.

No, of course not. What I don't appreciate and think is a bit odd is not when people try to look younger, it's when they try to act young.

That's right.

Yes, that is not dignified.

That's correct. I— there I'm with you.

You know, you're so right that the mistreatment or the disregard for the elderly is a referendum on our society. This is actually going to make me seem like a left-winger, this statement. But, but I think it's true that you can judge a society based on how you— how they treat the most vulnerable. I see that a lot with my sister who has extreme autism and she was in government group homes for years and the way that she was treated was truly nothing short of abusive. And I see it with elderly all the time. I was in the grocery store about a year ago and there was an elderly woman who was carrying a bunch of bags and she didn't look like she was terrifically struggling, but you know, it looked like it was an effort to carry them. She's kind of hobbling along. There was this guy, this maybe 35-year-old guy with earphones on, and he was in workout clothes, and he just went around her like she was a cone on the sidewalk that was an impediment in his path. There was no gentlemanliness, sense of chivalry, masculine chivalry, man, may I help you?

Or of humanity. I'm not even sure it's a male thing. If it was an old man, it would be the exact same issue.

Absolutely true. Though, the reason why I said masculinity is because men are, I think, supposed to protect themselves.

They're supposed to take care of the vulnerable. Yes.

And just walked around her, and then I went up to her and I said, "Ma'am, do you need help?" And she was so grateful. And I just thought— and you know, look at the way that we treat the homeless. For all that the left talks about, "Oh, the vulnerable and minorities, we have to help people," they don't give a damn that homeless people are a dime a dozen rotting on the sidewalk in downtown Los Angeles. And you know what makes that even more offensive? On the one hand, the left insists on a certain amount of sensitivity with words. We have to call the homeless unhoused, but then they don't. But then who cares if they're living in squalor and they have needles all around them and they don't have a house? Who cares as long as we call them unhoused?

I'm looking up a story irrelevant to— I actually wrote it into my phone, but I'm not finding it now. It's a bummer. But so I'll have to ruin it, but it's worth telling unless I already told it to you. Was it— did I tell you the story about the guy who offered a woman to help her take down her bags from the rack on the airplane?

Oh, and she said, yeah, you told me.

Did I tell it to you on Dennis and Julie?

Yes, the guy was called patriarchal or something.

Well, so This woman, an older woman, but vibrant older woman, told me this story at one of my speeches, that a guy who was younger than her and much taller than her and said, "Would you be offended if I offered to take down your bag for you?" She said, "Why would I be offended?" He said, "'Cause the last woman I asked was offended." You know, people— isn't that pathetic?

Of course it is. People ask— I was in Oklahoma recently giving a speech, which was so fun. It was very interesting to be in Oklahoma City. I've never been. But a question that I get often in speeches is, how do we change the course of society, especially this woke rot that is really especially prevalent among young people? And sometimes I don't I don't always know how to answer that question because it's basically like, how do we save society as a whole? And it's like, well, that would take an act of Hercules to do. But an answer that I have come up with, and I really, really believe it, is that when you see— first of all, when you see things that are wrong, you have an obligation to speak up. But we talk a lot about that, but we don't talk about the inverse. When you see things that are right, you have an obligation to speak up too and reward that person for whatever they're doing that you see as a benefit to society. So I was on a plane yesterday flying, or a few days ago, excuse me, flying back from Oklahoma City, and there was a guy in front of me and I couldn't open my water bottle, and so I tapped him on the shoulder, 'cause he, big muscles, "Sir, can you open it?" Of course he did it immediately, and I said, "Thank you, sir," and very loudly on the plane I said, "That's why we need men." Oh God, Julie. What?

That's great.

I do. I like doing stuff like that.

Like, I love you for it. I— did anybody react?

Some people turned and looked, but it was pretty—

I'm telling you, people would be afraid to react.

I know.

So many people thought, wow.

Oh, that— but, but it makes an impression, and it, and it makes others—

did he say anything?

He smiled. He smiled. But I think when you do that, it makes your viewpoint less stigmatized. And people will— it'll be encouraging to people because they'll go, oh, that girl on the plane said that. That must be a more common belief than the mainstream media and social media would make me think that exists. I mean, oh gosh, I did another thing. We were— I was walking through the— this is maybe where I'm a character. I was walking through the Oklahoma City airport. And I was talking with this person who was next to me. We were chatting, made a friend, and I don't even know if I should say this, but whatever, I'm already here. A group of Muslim women walked by in hijabs in the airport, and I turned to the guy next to me and I said, well, red state Oklahoma is so racist and xenophobic. Look at all these Muslim women. And I said it out loud, like audibly, so that people could hear me. And I like kind of saying irreverent I don't even mean it to be irreverent.

No, no, the point is well taken.

You know, de-stigmatize it. And I'll give a final example. There was a waitress recently, and I was out to dinner with a friend who has a lot of dietary restrictions and modifications, and usually waitresses roll their eyes at my friend. And this waitress was very professional, was going out of her way to help give my friend what she wanted. And I said to her, you are a true professional. Good for you. Thank you so much for, you know, going out of your way. And I could see how much it meant to the waitress. When you see merit, when you see professionalism, when you see masculine men doing something masculine, reward them audibly, loudly, proudly. That's how I think we, in a small way, turn the tide.

Do you know why? I know why I want— this is how well I think I know you. Do you know why you made that comment out loud? Oh, red state, Oklahoma. Big bigots against multicultural people and so on. And look at all the women in the hijabs. You know why you said it? And out loud, I know why, because we have a similar characteristic in this way. You said to me something a few weeks ago or a couple of months ago Dennis Prager, uh, to the effect that everything is about truth. I have said on the air, and I, I know this sounds self-aggrandizing, and I, I don't care if people think that's why I'm saying it. There's nothing I can do about it. It has nothing to do with self-aggrandizing. It has to do with the point I'm making. I have said on a number of occasions, and it sounds goofy even It's weird. I have said on the air, I have an erotic attraction to truth. And that is my way of saying how deep my love of it is. And you have that. And so you saw something and you knew a lie was being told. The lie is this most conservative state, arguably the most conservative state in the union, Oklahoma. And no one is giving anybody a hard time.

No one's looking.

Nobody's looking. It's a non-issue. That's exactly right.

And there were— I mean, and I was so— well, first of all, I want to respond to your point. Yes, that's, that's a very good analysis. And that's exactly—

you'd appreciate.

I do appreciate.

I know you were combating a lie.

Yes.

That's the reason you said that.

Yes. And I also— I love the way you phrase it— an erotic attraction to the truth. I think I said this on Dennis and Julie, and perhaps this is the truth comment that you're referring to. The truth is good.

That's right.

I love the truth because it's— because if you get down to the truth, that's why I'm unafraid of it. That's why I love it. Because I think the more I figure things out, like, like, for instance, you know, When we talk about why Black people are more incarcerated than white people, are incarcerated at higher rates than white people, I really wanna figure out why that is, and I'm not afraid of it. Part of why I think the left immediately paints everything as white supremacy is 'cause I actually think deep down they're a little bit afraid of the truth. I think they, there's a part of them that thinks that Black people are more inclined to commit crime than white people.

[Speaker:DENNIS_PRAGER] If you're not afraid of the truth, you can't be a leftist.

Yes.

Leftism is based on denying the truth because it's uncomfortable. So if you say it's classic, I could give example after example. If I say, which I do, and not many say this, including conservatives, a wildly disproportionate number of those who are robbing stores en masse now, these gang robberies are Black. And way, way beyond their percentage of the population. What is the left's reaction? The left does not ask, is what Prager said true? It is of no interest to them if it's true. It's Prager is a racist.

Yes. Does it sound bad?

Yes.

Well, I agree with you. What I'm saying is a little different, and I really want to— I'm interested to know if you agree or disagree. I think that they there is a part of them that thinks that Black people are more inherently likely or more inherently have a proclivity to commit crime than white people. I don't believe that. I know you don't believe that. But I think there's this— there's this weird—

you know, when they call us racist, disdain for Black.

Yes.

There's no doubt in my mind when they call us— when you say let's lower— when you say as the Oregon Education Department— I know I'm interrupting. Forgive me. The Oregon Education— but only because I want to illustrate your point. The Oregon Education Department has announced that the idea that there is one correct answer in math is white supremacist. So what are they saying? Only whites believe that there is a right answer in math. Blacks do not. Tell me that is not utter contempt for whites.

There must be something special about whites for them to be able to—

and something inferior about blacks.

Exactly. That's what I think. This weird, actually kind of latent racism among not all, but many leftists. And I think that's why they project so much onto us that we're somehow the racists. I'm not afraid at looking at a problem that's uncomfortable because I know if I really study it and study it in an objective way, I will get to the truth. And the truth is good. I know the truth is not a eugenicist truth. I know that Black people don't have they don't have a more inherent genetic, whatever, intrinsic likelihood to commit crime. I know it has to do with culture. I know it has to do with the left and the Democratic Party's manipulation of Black people. I know it has to do with fatherlessness, with out-of-wedlock births. I'm not afraid of that truth because I know that truth is good. And I know that truth, as I said, doesn't pit or make some races more inferior or superior to others. If you go to the truth about men and women, men and women are equal. I'm not afraid of acknowledging, for instance, that men might be better at some things than women. I think the left is afraid to acknowledge that, 'cause I think they fear, or there's a part of them that thinks that that's true. I know, or sorry, let me back up.

Yes, there's a part of them that thinks men are superior.

Yes, that's what I meant to say.

Yeah, just like a part of them that thinks that whites are superior.

Yes.

Your point is entirely well taken. Yes, there's a part of them that thinks that men are superior to women.

So that's why they're so afraid to even say that men are better at some things. I know that's not true because I love the truth. The truth is created by God. God is good. The truth is good.

Beautiful.

Well, I don't know how beautiful that was. I kind of stumbled through that, but you got that.

Julie working on Julie. That's, it's a classic moment. It was beautiful. The ability to acknowledge this. I'll give an example to prove my point that when I point out a wildly disproportionate, not just disproportionate, number of those committing these crimes today of invading stores en masse are Black. A wildly disproportionate percentage is Black, correcting my grammar. Is in my Bible commentary, which yet I don't know if it's in Deuteronomy or Numbers, which is yet to come out, but there's a footnote, a very long footnote about the whole issue of taking pride in your own group, raised by, of course, a verse in the Bible. I don't I always do it based on something in the Bible, and I note that a disproportionate number of those who gave Stalin the secrets to the atom bomb were Jews. Am I anti-Semitic? So the question is only, is it true? I'm not happy about it. I'm not happy about the issue with, with blacks and invading stores, but You can't solve a problem. You can't do any good.

Mm-hmm.

Back to your good and truth. You can't do good based on lies.

Yes.

So my question is like yours. What? Well, why? Since blacks are not born with this proclivity, Jews are not born with the proclivity to give tyrants secrets to atom bombs. Why did it happen?

Right.

I have answers. I mean, my basic answer on the Jewish one is when Jews leave Judaism, they often adopt very weird ideologies. But that's true for non-Jews too, right?

Yes. And again, both of us are unafraid of the truth because we know when we get down to it, it may be uncomfortable, but it's not evil. It's not, it's not that Jews are, you know, naturally more slimy.

So I want to talk about Julie for a moment, your favorite subject.

I do have one other thing to say about the truth.

Okay, go. No, no, no, say it.

Forgive me, really fast. I'm just avoiding the conversation about Julie, but, um, I want to show people that I'm consistent, and I know that you're consistent too, because one of the things I admire about you— and I'm going to quote you in telling you why I admire you— is that you are not beholden to a particular group. Not Jews, not men, not conservatives. You often say to me, my support, my listenership, even my friends in life, it's all a conglomeration of individuals as opposed to a group. And you, you criticize the religious many times, specifically on the doctrine that you have to police thought. You will criticize— I've heard you criticize conservatives. God knows you've criticized Jews. Many times, of course, I'm not saying you're anti any of those groups. It's actually the opposite. You know, you're, you're so committed to the truth that you're not going to just sell yourself out for one group. Gold dealers are a dime a dozen. They're everywhere. What sets these companies apart, and who can you really trust? This is Julie Hartman for Amped Coin and Bullion, Dennis Prager's choice for buying precious metals. When you buy precious metals, it's imperative that you buy from a trustworthy and transparent dealer that protects your best interests. So many companies use gimmicks to take advantage of inexperienced gold and silver buyers. Be cautious of brokers offering free gold and silver, or brokers that want to sell you overpriced collectible coins claiming that they appreciate more than gold and silver. What about hidden commissions and huge markups? Nick Grovich and his team at Ampfed have always had Dennis Prager's back. Nick's been in the industry for over 42 years, and he's established a reputation built on trust, Transparency and fair pricing. If you're interested in buying or selling, call Nick and his team at AMFED Coin and Bullion, 1-800-221-7694, americanfederal.com, americanfederal.com. I know you're that way. I want to tell people though that when I was in Oklahoma, a large portion of my speech was actually criticizing or trying to shift conservatives in another direction. I spoke about, because the point of the talk that I was in was how to reach young people. And I said to conservatives in the audience, I said, I know a lot of you are definitely Republican. Many of you are probably Christian. And I have profound respect for Christianity and of course for conservatism. But if you talk to young people and try to proselytize them, and if you say things to them like Christ is going to save your soul or 'Satan is going to punish you if you have an abortion, abortion is sin,' you are not going to reach them. It is shoving too much down their throat. You have to take a different tack. And so anyway, I just wanna show people that my love for the truth extends everywhere. And I felt comfortable criticizing or making an intervention in the tactics of the people to whom I was speaking. Because I knew that it was the truth and the truth is good. And also, and it's a credit to them, I knew I was in a hospitable audience that also cares about the truth. I was trying to picture what if there was a left-wing conference and then there was a left-wing breakout group about how to reach young people and someone said, you know, this trans ideology is getting too extreme. And when you say things like this, it's not reaching. That would never be allowed in that group.

It's an excellent point. You're really on a roll today.

Oh, am I? See, I think I'm on a—

I think I'm going to tear out my coffee and have a cup while you speak.

I think I've been terrible, but I'm glad you think so.

You do?

Yeah, I do. I think I've been terribly inarticulate.

One minute, folks. I'm returning to Earth. It's taking a while. Okay, I'm back on Earth.

You know what Dennis's equivalent of this is, though?

What?

You don't know when you are— when people are starstruck by you. I don't know if people are impressed by me or if they're thinking what I say is articulate or if they think that I'm physically attractive. I have blinders in those ways. You have a huge blinder with people who are sucking up to you or who are starstruck by you. He has no idea.

Well, the second is a good thing. The first is not a good thing. People sucking up to me.

That would— that seemed derogatory.

Um, well, it is, it is derogatory.

I mean, look, I've witnessed people sucking up to you, but, but a lot— what I meant by that was when people are trying to impress you or they're trying to—

yeah, that's not getting your—

yeah, it's not the same. I should, I should— but however, I have witnessed both.

Okay, fair enough. You're right, I don't have, uh, I don't have any sense of that at all. This is not a brag. It's just a fact of life. I don't walk through life thinking I'm Dennis Prager. It doesn't occur to me till people tell me I am when they stop me for a selfie. And I remember, oh yeah, I'm a public figure. I forgot.

I know it's funny.

It is funny. And it's that, by the way, I'm thrilled about that because I love being a regular guy. I like walking through the airport like everybody else does. I intellectually understand I don't have a normal life. It's obvious, and so on. Anyway, it's interesting because I wanted— it's funny because to a certain extent that's what I wanted to say when I wanted to say— when I said I wanted to talk about Julie. So I want to put this in perspective. Julie was just in Oklahoma. They brought you to speak at a women's conservative conference, women from all over the country. I read about it in the Oklahoma newspaper, which is credit to you, you didn't even know was written. I knew the article was there and you didn't.

Yeah, he called me and said, great article. And I said, what the hell are you talking about?

Well, you I didn't say what the hell.

I said—

yeah, no, no, I don't have no problem with what the hell, but you actually said where or something to that effect. Anyway, so it's true, you're 23. Are you about to be 24? When?

Guess what? I share a birthday with a prominent figure who has— who changed the country. He's dead, and it happened in Minneapolis, and it changed everything, like 3 years ago. Who is that person?

Oh my God, really?

Yeah, George Floyd.

Yeah, George Floyd. Okay, let's be—

anyway, October 14th. And Charlie Kirk.

You, Charlie Kirk, and George Floyd.

Dwight Eisenhower.

And Dwight Eisenhower.

And Usher.

And who? Who? Usher? I'm looking at Sean. Who? And who?

Usher? Yes, Usher.

Okay, I get it.

All right, like an usher at the— I don't know.

So who you're really referring to?

The singer.

The singer Usher. Okay, I think it's beautiful. Okay, so you're 23. All right, here we go. He's putting on—

I can't believe I've missed this.

How did I miss this? All right, it's time to put on Brookner 7th. Oh, did I make you choke?

Yes, you did. Okay, we can keep that.

So Attempt number 4. You're 23.

Yes.

And you were invited to speak in Oklahoma.

Yep.

So on a scale of 1 to 10, how exciting is that?

Oh, it's a 9 or 10.

Correct. Yeah, right.

So mostly because I met Riley Gaines.

We'll talk about that in a moment because I'm a big fan of hers. I'm only hesitating because I know that we've made reference to this much more in the beginning, but I'll live with the consequences that I— our lives are so intertwined, obviously, but also they have followed such a similar pattern. So I was 21 when I began lecturing. You were 23 or 22. You were— you like— well, you lectured at the graduation, so you're 21, which is very uncommon. Obviously, it's very rare to start public speaking, let alone be brought across the country. And I remember it was a high, not an ego high, just a high. This— I am so lucky to have such a life. And so early, people— and then in my case, I was living in New York. People in Tennessee, that was the first really far away from the Northeast place I spoke. People in Tennessee are bringing me to speak. It was exhilarating. And I have to believe, because you're, you're healthy and normal, that it was exhilarating for you.

It was. But I'll also be very honest that sometimes I wish I were more proud of myself, or, um, than I am.

Relish it more.

Yes. And, and this is not—

this is so big, this subject. Go ahead.

I almost hesitate I don't want to say it because I don't want to sound ungrateful or unappreciative or not aware of how lucky I am.

Intellectually aware.

It's actually, and again, I'm aware of how this may come across as, oh, I'm just such a good person. But it's actually that I appreciate it so much and I feel so lucky and I feel so grateful that I feel guilty where I almost don't.

'Cause you don't deserve it?

No, it's not that I don't think that I deserve, I know I've worked really hard and I know that I've proven myself and that I have good things to say. It's that I don't deserve to have had the good fortune that put me in the position to prove myself. I'll give you something that, that really hit me. I know I told you this, Dennis, and you said typical Julie, but after I spoke in Oklahoma, I got on a scooter, which by the way, they have them all over Oklahoma City. They have them in LA too, I guess, but it's very, it's a very nifty way of getting around. I went on a scooter and I scootered over to the Oklahoma City bombing memorial, which anyone who's in Oklahoma City should go to. It is so moving. The Oklahoma City bombing happened in 1995. It was the largest terrorist attack in the United States at the time. Now it's the largest homegrown terrorist attack because 9/11 happened 6 years later. But I was reading about it. 168 people were killed, 19 of them children, because there was a daycare center. I remember well in the Federal Building where the bomb was detonated. And it was this weird, like, I mean, obviously I went there because I love history, but it was also this almost weird, like, voyage that I was going on to remind myself that I'm so lucky. And I just was standing there going like, how did, you know, why did these 19 children get blown up when they were 2 years old and had no opportunity at a life? And then I've had this I have a wonderful life and opportunities are coming up for me all the time. And it was— I sometimes feel this tension where I feel guilty for my luck. And then I feel guilty that I feel guilty for my luck because I'm not appreciating my luck. And if only people who didn't have the luck were alive, they would want me to appreciate my luck. And it's this like weird cycle.

I want to talk about that.

Well, you recently wrote about luck versus God, which I think is very right, but that's—

yes, it's tangentially but not directly related. I wanted to deal with your reaction, that it fascinates me, and I think that there are two elements, three elements, in no order of significance, but three elements You're female.

That's a big one.

So I don't, I, I don't know how big, but I, I'm sure it's one of the three. Uh, it's your nature, which we'll get to. And you come, though not from at all a religious world, from a Christian background. You have a grandfather who's a pastor, after all. And I'll explain all three And then briefly, we can expound on it because I think it's a very big deal and a very big subject.

It's relevant to everyone.

Relevant to everyone. That is the most— obviously, it's not a therapy session. A, B, it's relevant to everyone or I wouldn't raise it. Right.

Just making it clear.

Yeah, I'm well aware of that. So I, my own reaction, and I'm very self-aware, from the outset was I'm incredibly fortunate, incredibly, to this day, or lucky. I'm totally okay with the word lucky. To this day, I believe it just as much as I believed it then. But I did not feel that— I did not feel any guilt over it. I felt only obligation and gratitude, which I think is a healthier reaction because you should only feel guilt over what you did wrong. You didn't do anything wrong. What would be wrong is to have your gifts and not use it for good. So I want— in that sense, it is a therapy session. In the, in the odd sense of the word.

And I don't even have to pay.

You're right. But I want you to know that. I mean, the— to the extent that reason can overcome the psyche, and I'm not sure it can, you must know that the healthy reaction is gratitude and obligation, not guilt.

I feel those.

Yeah, I know you do, but there's a lot of guilt. You don't only feel that, right? Yeah. No, so, uh, the— so the So I said your nature, you're being female, and you're growing up in a non-religious but Christian culturally, psychologically environment where— I'll explain the latter in this way. I know I haven't said this. If I have, tell me, you remember, but I don't think I ever said this on Dennis and Julie. So Jews complain more than Christians as a general rule. It's biblical. What did they do when they got out of Egypt? We don't like the food here, send us back to Egypt. The food was better. It's literally what they said. So anyway, they come. So Jews complain a lot. And Christians complain less. Not Gentiles. Gentiles don't complain less. Christians complain less. It's an important distinction. So I tell in speeches, including in front of Christian groups, I said, if you don't believe me, let's try the following test. Let's have a group from a Catholic church, a group from an evangelical or any Protestant church, and a group from a synagogue. They're meeting for an ecumenical lunch. Okay, and we arrange, or I arrange, with the kitchen of the hotel to serve overripe cantaloupe as the appetizer. Which group will complain the most? And the audience always laughs because everybody knows it's the Jews. So that, that is interesting but not significant. What's significant is why. Okay, so that's, that's my life— the why question. So I have a theory. Christians— okay, I'll put it in my punchline way. To— for Christians to suffer is Christ-like. For Jews to suffer stinks.

That's so true. I think sometimes Christians self-flagellate and suffer for the sake of suffering.

There is, because yes, there is more Christlike. That's right. There is a veneration of suffering. The hair shirt in medieval Catholic life, for example.

You know, something I do which is very culturally Christian, and I'm so interested because I know we have a lot of Christians who listen to hear if they have this too. Not this exact example, but just the general feeling of needing to suffer to achieve something or to exonerate yourself of something. I constantly tell my parents, "Don't die." Like, constantly. Whenever we are on the phone and before I hang up, I go, "Love you, don't die." When I leave the house, "Love you, don't die." Sometimes I'll just text them out of nowhere, "Don't die." When I was at the Oklahoma City bombing memorial, I called them and I said, "I love you so much, don't die." Don't die. It's like, it's constant and I understand it's a little bit odd. It's gotten better over the years, but I do do it a lot. And one time, I really tried to consider why do I do this? Because it's weird and it doesn't prevent the fact that if, God forbid, they walk outside and get hit by a bus, it's not gonna, my saying don't die isn't gonna make the bus swerve and miss them. But I actually think it's that, I sort of have this Christian sense, like, the more that I worry, it's almost like putting money in the bank account, like insurance. And I think Christians have this, like, the more you pray, the more, maybe the higher outcome that something good that you're praying for will happen. The more that you suffer, the more that you become like Christ. And I think I have this, like, the worrying is in my mind, even though intellectually I know it's not preventing the bus. I think in my mind, I think the more that I add up the don't dies, it will cosmically help my parents avoid that fate. Does that make any sense?

Well, it's not rational.

Of course it's not. Yeah, it's definitely not.

So, so from a Christian— yes.

Well, I suffer penance. It's, it's like, it's like the first cousin of suffering and penance and confession. And it's like, let it all come out and obsess about things to almost be exonerated of them. Say, don't die, worry about your parents so that they won't die.

Okay, I hear you.

You hear me? It's not registering.

It doesn't register.

I know it doesn't register rationally, but does it register as someone who observes Christians and Christian behavior and pathology?

It's interesting that you think it's related to the— I think suffering is, is holy.

Yes.

Yeah. Well, how is it related to suffering is holy exactly? I'm missing that connection.

I think there's this idea that the more that you suffer, the more that you're like Christ, which is—

that's correct. That's what I said. It's Christ-like. So what does that have to do with don't die?

I think it's that the more that you obsess about something, the more that you orient yourself in—

I mean, have pain over it?

Yes, the more that you have pain.

So your pain may help forestall their death?

Yes, I think it's just generally this Christian mantra. The more pain, something good will happen, ennobling comes out of it.

I see. Okay, I can't comment on that. That is truly your interior life emanating from a Christian background.

Yes. Well, also in Christian, you know, people will say pray, pray, you know, pray for this person, and there's this element of the more that you pray, the more likelihood that they will get better.

Jews have— right, many Jews believe that too, but that's not, that's not the suffering element. By the way, the suffering, it really, it's a cute line, you know, that I offer for Christians: pain is Christ-like. For Jews, it stinks. But it is actually very serious. Yeah, it is one of the reasons Jews disproportionately, as, as long as we have recorded history, became doctors. The greatest Jewish philosopher who ever lived, Maimonides, was a medical doctor. I mean, I don't know what the hell he knew in the 11th century or 12th century, but he was— in fact, he was the doctor to the Muslim, I think Sultan it was, in I believe Egypt. So this Muslim is not a fan of Jews, but he wanted a Jewish doctor. Not much has changed. But so back to your issue of how you translate this spectacular life you're living and that it's, it's your ability to get pure joy out of it is compromised.

Yes, I don't want people to think that I walk around with a cloud over my head.

No, no, you don't. No, I don't think people, people are— no, people are not dense. Well, our listeners, many people are, but No, I think a lot of— first of all, I think a lot of people relate to you precisely for those 3 reasons. The Christian background, female, female. See, so the female— I didn't explain the female part, why I think that. So I've thought this, all this stuff through. I may be wrong, but I have thought it all through. So, or much of it through, about all. But boys compliment themselves on a ratio of 1,000 to 1 more than girls compliment themselves. So it shows it's not societal because it starts so early. Boys, and I probably have said this to you, but I don't think, again, on Dennis and Julie. So when a boy hits a, is in a baseball game, and he hits a double, triple, or home run, he will say to the other guys, "Did you see that hit? Did you see that?" And no guy thinks that's bizarre, that he is making reference to how great he thinks his hit was.

Girls would never, never.

It is inconceivable. If a girl did that, I would be sure she was a trans.

She was a trans.

Yes, that deep down. She was still on a male brain, but girls don't do that.

So funny.

And if a girl did do that, the other girls would resent her.

You say it's not societal.

Oh, why God or nature made men the way they did. And, well, men are outer accomplishment oriented. Did you see the, the, the tiger I just killed? I I really do. I believe it in effect comes from that. What are women going to say on any daily basis? Did you see how well-clothed the kids were today? I mean, most women until modern life did take care of the home, right? So given men's task conquering the world, It probably was a good thing for men to be proud of their outer achievements, and women would want a man who, who was like that.

Yeah, we're attracted to this. Yes, men.

Yes.

Also, women are more ruled by emotion, and emotion can be bad at times, and emotion can be good at times. Like, you know, women are very empathetic I think that sometimes, at least in my case, I am—

anything goes too far. Right. That's right. That's very interesting.

And again, I hate saying this because it sounds like I'm just so empathetic, but I honestly think I am.

Okay. We're not taking it that way. I understand why you would worry. If people want to take it that way, there are a thousand other podcasts they can enjoy.

That's right. Like a million. A million. Well, part of the issue in society now is what Theresa May, who's Dennis Prager, who's this great author who I interviewed on my show, calls toxic empathy, where women, especially in this whole trans thing, go, oh my gosh, you know, we have to, we have to be so empathetic to people who are having gender dysphoria that we have to bring them into bathrooms.

So you end up over-empathizing and thereby under-empathizing.

Exactly.

Now the girls like Riley Gaines stuck with this guy showing off his genitalia in the women's locker room at the University of Pennsylvania or wherever their meet was. She gets— those women get no empathy.

Well, exactly.

Trans one, the man who says he's a woman, gets all their empathy.

There is a point at which mercy becomes unmerciful, compassion becomes cruelty, empathy becomes unempathetic, becomes the exact opposite of the virtue that you're trying to achieve.

So good. So now We've come to the third. So we've dealt with the Christian background, you're being a female, and the third is it's your nature. And that's— that is individual. That is not universal. It's not here. It's not human nature. That's universal. Julie's nature is— is to— is— well, look, the proof. Where did you go on your one day in Oklahoma City?

Like my one hour.

Your one hour that was free. You rent a scooter and go to the memorial to people who were blown up before you were born. Most people don't do that, Julie. That's Julie. That's not human nature. That's Julie's nature. Other people have that too, but you have that. Look, it's again, the similarities is part of this remarkable thing we have together. I remember thinking, how am I going to find a wife? I want to talk about evil, good and evil, on a date. They're not aching to talk about Pol Pot or Mao or Hitler.

I know, trust me.

And I'm thinking about this all the time.

I know.

It, it, it, it— so It— those are the 3 reasons. It's a very, it's a very powerful thing. So all I could say to you is, to the extent possible, and I don't know what extent it's possible, I don't know, or it is no sin for you to thoroughly, thoroughly enjoy the life you're having.

Mike Lindell has a passion to help you get the best sleep of your life. He didn't stop at the pillow, he also created the Giza Dream bed sheets. These sheets look and feel great, which means an even better night's sleep, which is crucial for our overall health. Mike found the world's best cotton called Giza. It's ultra soft and breathable but extremely durable. Mike's latest deal is the sale of the year. For a limited time, you'll get 50% off of the Giza Dream sheets marking prices down as low as $29.98 depending on the size. Go to mypillow.com and click on the radio podcast square and use the promo code Hartman. There you'll find not only this great offer but also deep discounts on all MyPillow products, including the MyPillow 2.0 mattress topper, MyPillow kitchen towel sets, and so much more. Call 1-800-566-6745 or go to mypillow.com and use the promo code Hartmann. Well, thank you, and I agree, and it's something I'm working on. I do enjoy it very much, but I'm working on the times where, you know, I go—

but I said it's no sin. I chose my words.

I know, I know you did, um, which is ironic because I was telling the group that don't use the word sin with her. You know, I was sort of criticizing some religious commentary or—

Well, but this is the opposite. This is the opposite. They're saying X is sin. I'm saying X is not a sin.

I know, but I'm saying I need to reevaluate my own self-righteousness. That's right, yes. So may I tell you two funny things that happened? Or not, one of them is funny, one of them isn't, that happened this weekend in Oklahoma. Do I have permission to steer the conversation in that direction?

Well, we'll take a vote. I say yes. It's up to Sean now. What do you say, Sean?

Thumbs down. Okay, let's talk about Pol Pot.

Zach said thumbs down. Yes, let's talk.

I'm actually doing it. I want to do a show on Pol Pot.

Please do.

First, I met Riley Gaines, who's so sweet. I have yet— I always say this, but I just want to make it so clear. I have been so lucky to meet many, many prominent conservative public figures. I have not met one mean, bigoted, racist, homophobic, sexist, patriarchal anything. Everyone is so nice. I actually feel bad because I said her name in the lobby and then people ran over to her, descended on her like, I don't know, bees descending on honey. She was so nice. I talked to her about how I'm a swimmer. She agreed to come on Timeless. And I said to her that I work with you and that you said the Leah Thomas Institute on the air. She said it was one of the funniest moments of her year. She said, I love Dennis. For those who don't know what we're talking about, Dennis was interviewing now I almost just said Leah Thomas, Riley Gaines on his show. And Riley Gaines has started the Riley Gaines Institute. And Dennis Prager said, everyone, please go check out the Leah Thomas Institute. So I just thought you'd find that to be funny that Riley remembered.

Well, it— oh, I have no doubt she would remember it.

And she said, I say it sometimes. I tell that joke.

I can only imagine that she would. So it's very beautiful that she remembers me for one of my corkers. But it cracks me up. I don't have any issue with it. But I want to just explain to people who we're talking about. So Riley Gaines is literally a national champion swimmer. Yes.

And she actually likes swimming.

Is that true? Did you ask her?

Yes. She said, I enjoy it.

Did you tell her you didn't?

Yes.

What did she say?

I got it. She said, I got it. It's— but at times it's brutal.

Okay. So she has been leading the campaign to keep women's sports for women. It's as simple as that. She's gutsy. She is the object of a lot of hate. And of course, she's the object of tremendous amount of admiration, including the two people speaking here. And I had her on my show recently. And the man who said he was a woman was named Lia Thomas. He took LIA from his name William. His/her name, whatever.

His.

Okay. Okay. Yes. And appeared in the locker room with his genitalia exposed, which—

What a great guy.

What a schmuck. No, no, no. He is a schmuck, but it proves that he's not a woman. Women don't do that. Women don't display their genitalia.

Run and hide.

Yes.

And hide. Also, it shows that, that his, his motivation is to shock and to make people uncomfortable and to get in, in their face. There's no other reason why you would do that. Um, oh God, I was gonna say something.

Well, yeah, you had met her, so you were talking about meeting her. No, was that not— Yes, nothing.

I can't I don't remember what it was.

Well, it's okay.

I—

Oh, well, what you just said about calling her gutsy, by the way, totally true. And she deserves every ounce of credit for all that she has done for women. However, I do find it to be interesting that Riley Gaines and all of us, for even someone like me, gets called courageous. Like, if Riley Gaines coming out and saying women's sports should be reserved for women, her saying that The fact that that is called courage.

Yes, the fact that that does take courage, but it does a reflection on our society as much as it is on her.

And that is not a knock in the slightest to Riley Gaines, as it's not a knock on me. It's just sometimes I don't know.

Look, in Germany, I mean, it's not the exact same thing, obviously, but in Germany it took courage to say actually Jews are human. Right. And you think that takes courage.

Well, that's a good point.

The circumstance determines courage.

That's very true. That's a very, very good point. Just as in Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge regime. It took courage to say, no, you shouldn't execute people for disagreeing. Right.

Ironically, courage is demanded for what should be obvious. That's the irony. It's because the bad guys distort truth. Back to truth.

Well, there's a difference, though, with the aforementioned examples and then the Riley Gaines and not to say I'm like I'm on the same par as Riley Gaines and as far as public perception, but people like us who speak up, you know, look, yeah. Is it true that the Justice Department and increasingly are people in power are weaponizing the institutions against conservatives? Yes. Is it true that there are big personal and professional consequences for saying right-wing things? Yes. However, Riley and I live in a time and live in a place where it's pretty easy to say stuff that is controversial to be courageous. That is not true of the Jews in Europe.

Or you mean of the Germans.

That's right, thank you. The Germans and the Cambodians, you know, they would be executed on the spot. We were not. We wouldn't be executed on the spot. As bad as things are getting here, we wouldn't. So I want to make that distinction. Anyway, number 2, I heard Tulsi Gabbard speak, also met her backstage. Such a nice woman. She's one of my heroes, I have to say. I mean, she's really, she, I think she could have been president if she stuck with the Democratic Party. She, back in the time of Obama, was the Democratic Party's darling, especially, you know, in '08, '09. There are these photos of her and she's on every news network. And I think she's smart enough to know that if she stuck with the Democrats, she would have been like their AOC, their kind of great figure. But she has principles and she got up and gave this great speech to all these Republicans And she said, I'm not a Republican, but I am not a Democrat. The party that I joined 20 years ago, I saw a party that was inclusive of all people, that was pro-civil rights, was pro-free speech. And that is not the Democratic Party today. But as she was speaking, I want to tell you this story because, again, it shows that we're not afraid to criticize our own side. During her speech, there was a woman in the audience who yelled out, Tulsi Gabbard is not a Republican. And she wasn't near enough to me for me to respond. But I afterwards, when I gave my speech, I quoted that to a roomful of Republican women and I said, I was very disappointed to hear that woman shout that out about Tulsi Gabbard.

You said that?

I did. I said that was hugely disappointing. That is not who we are. We should not be the left and cancel people who are not exactly like us That is not what we should stand for. And I said, by the way, folks, I actually think Tulsi Gabbard is more useful to the United States and to the rancid cultural moment that we're in because she is criticizing the Democratic Party not as a conservative, but as a liberal. I think RFK Jr. is more useful to the United States because he's criticizing this moment as a liberal and not as a conservative. Speech, the historical example that I give is what Martin Luther did in the 16th century. Martin Luther lived in the time where the medieval Catholic Church was just as powerful and corrupt as the modern-day Democratic Party. And Martin Luther in 1517 raised his hand and said, as a Catholic, I am a Catholic. I despise what the Catholic Church has become, the corruption, the abuse of power, the indulgences. This is not who 'Who we are.' Now, of course, Martin Luther ended up being the father of Protestantism and Lutheranism, breaking off from the Catholic Church, but he didn't intend for that. He was so effective and powerful, and the reason we know his name is because he wasn't wagging the finger at the Catholic Church as an outsider. He was someone on the inside saying, 'No, no, no, this is not who we are.' So for the life of me, I can't understand why there are some conservatives who say, 'Oh, I would never vote for R.F.K., R.F.K. Jr. because he's not a Republican. Tulsi Gabbard isn't a Republican. Who gives a damn? Who gives a damn? They are pro our values, not on everything, but on the important things. And if we're talking about efficacy and usefulness, they're better not on our, on our side, actually.

So I have never told this publicly. It shows. I tell people stuff is brought out of me and I'm very open. I really am on my show and in speeches, but I've never told this one out of deference to the individual, but I won't say who he is. I'll just say he's one of the most prominent Christians in America. We'll put it at that. We had been talking for quite some time on a plane, and we're talking mostly theology things. And then he looks at me and he says, you know, Dennis, I would love you to come to Christ, but the truth is you're far more useful to us as a Jew. Just exactly what you were saying there. And by the way, that is true because I defend Christians so much.

You do.

It's that, that because I'm a Jew, it gives it far more credibility. It's unfair. Defense should be a defense. It doesn't matter who makes it, but it is a fact.

Yep. This is not exactly the same, but it's related. I hope this will come to fruition, but I have invited someone on my show, Timeless, who is anti-surrogacy, who, who thinks surrogacy is evil and that it's exploitative of women and that it disrupts the new— the idea of a nuclear family and a woman conceiving and bearing a child. And for those who don't know, I was born from a surrogate, and I'm inviting her on my show.

Does she know this?

Yeah, I wrote her an email, and we've been— she hasn't agreed yet. She's trying to— she's, she's asked me some questions about, you know, what, how long, you know. So, so if she doesn't agree, it's fine, I'll find someone else. But it's really important to me to have someone on my show who's anti-surrogacy, A, to hear their thoughts, and B, I want to show the left Again, this is not exactly related to what you were saying, but it's that it's kind of in this general idea that people who are outsiders or people who are not exactly like you and may even be opposed to you can still be useful, interesting, important, valuable, worth listening to. It's really important to me to have someone on my show who's anti-surgery because I want to show the left I can have a discussion, a civil discussion with someone, and even appreciate their viewpoints, even when it's someone who is against the thing that brought me into this world. Because you know how the left goes like, oh my God, you know, they're anti the existence of women, they're anti the existence of trans people, which is such a crock of BS. Because what does that mean to be against the existence of someone? This person who I'd be inviting on my show is arguably closer to being anti the existence of someone like a surrogacy baby than we are.

What is her argument?

You know, I haven't listened truthfully to a lot of what she has said. I want to actually save it to hear on the show and have spontaneous reactions. But she says that it's exploitative because just almost like giving an organ, you know, the government now will pay you to donate an organ in some states. They say that it's coercive, that some women wouldn't otherwise do it, and they're putting their body through this transformation to get money. I'm just— I don't know if I agree with that. I'm just telling you the argument.

I barely understand it. Everybody who is paid to do anything—

I know. I mean, I agree.

Are athletes not paid to utilize their bodies in awkward ways. You know what it is to be a major league pitcher? It's almost definite you will have elbow problems the rest of your life.

Well, in football it could be far worse.

Oh, it's concussions. Well, yeah, no, exactly. She also says that's why we pay people, because they wouldn't otherwise do it, right?

She also says that It gets us further away from the ideal of a, of a nuclear family where—

So ask her if she's against adoption. No, ask her. I will. If the issue is that you have to— one's mother in this case has to be the physical source of that child's existence.

Right.

Then clearly adoption would be another example of, of something that undermines, quote unquote, the nuclear family.

She also— I remember her saying in an interview that she believes that surrogacy can be weaponized against the biological parents.

What does that mean? Where the surrogate mother can, at the last moment, says, I want to keep the baby.

Yeah.

Yes. So it's a risk. That's correct.

Yeah. So look, the point is this. I want to show people that— that I want to invite someone who—

I agree with you.

Your point is so—

you're 100% right.

But I don't view her as hostile to me. No, no, it doesn't go through my mind.

Everything about it is noble. You should have— I hope she comes on.

Me too.

But unless there are arguments that I'm not aware of, It's an example of the best is the enemy of the better. So really what you're saying is, so it would be better— and I know I don't take this personally, Ms. So-and-so— but it would have been better had I never been born. That's— that is— and believe me, I'm not saying this personally. I know you're not insulting me. I don't take it in any way that way.

Yeah.

Would, would, would the world be a better place if I were not born? Would my parents have had a better life if I were not born? Would God be happy if I were not born? I would ask those three things. That's pretty powerful questions. Those are powerful questions.

The thing is, it doesn't even occur to me that this woman would offend me, even if, even if she answered yes to that question.

Yes.

Honest to God.

Right. It's not about you. You understand that?

I wouldn't even get upset or hurt. Yes, I really wouldn't.

No.

And so it raises the question when other people like you see, it's like a, it's honestly like a psychological event when you see these, these people on college campuses screaming and convulsing like they are having an aneurysm at the presence of Charlie Kirk or you. You know, Charlie Kirk gets more of the, like, crazy screaming than you do. But it's like, what is going on?

I love— I'm going to use that, aneurysm. I think that's—

oh, they're like convulsing.

They do. That's right. That is what they look like.

I mean, they need to go to the hospital.

Everyone watching us or listening to us right now must go on YouTube And I guess if you put in Yale professors Halloween costumes protest, that would work. Yale professors. Do you know the story? Maybe you will. You will actually be happy we met.

Oh, I'm on the fence about it.

Finally. This will push you over. So two professors, a husband and a wife who were heads of— I guess I think Harvard has houses. Is that right? So Yale has houses.

So colleges.

Yeah. Okay. Is that the same thing as a house?

Basically.

Okay. So the heads of one of the houses was this two academics, liberal, liberal. Shocking, right? Man and a woman, I don't remember their fields, both professors at Yale. And the issue of Halloween costumes arose, and they— I think the wife said at some point— oh, he was the head. I don't think both of them were. He was the head of the house, but she He's married to her. And so she said, it's no big deal if you wear costume of another group. It doesn't mean anything. It's fine. And they went ballistic. To the extent he was fired as the head of that Yale house because his wife had said something which is completely correct and innocuous.

Yep.

You should see— why did I think of this? The aneurysm. You should see the students gathered around these two professors.

Oh, I do know this.

Screaming and cursing at them.

Yep.

Yale students.

It really raises the question, and this is our classic debate. Does the left really believe what they say? Or I really wonder when I'm looking at those people who truly like Honestly, I know people probably think I'm saying this tongue in cheek, like they are, they are convulsing to the point like they need an IV of, of morphine, like they are having an episode.

Your aneurysm analogy was perfect.

Is this— are they truly like— I'm really trying to get into the psychological state. Have they truly been so brainwashed or are they psychologically not okay in a way that they— that their, their human alarm is really going off at Charlie Kirk? Like they really feel like they are threatened and all of that. I mean, even if you, and it's hard to bring up these examples in these discussions, but even if you look at the footage of Jews in concentration camps, they're not screaming and convulsing in the presence of a Nazi, which is like, oh my God, many of them maintain their composure. So why is a leftist in the presence of Charlie Kirk, literally descending into a flight or what is it, flight or flight?

Yeah, fight or flight.

Yeah, fight, fight or flight episode. Are they truly that alarmed or is this a show? I think it's a show. I, I really do.

I have moved to real deal.

Really? Some of it is, I think most of it is a show.

Yeah, I hope you're right. I have a darker view. Uh, we're coming near the end, so I'll tell you what has— what began to push me on the road to— they actually believe what they're saying and doing. It was a young— a woman in her 20s, a German woman who was gang raped in Germany by a group of, uh, of immigrants from the Middle East.

Oh God.

She told the police that it was German men who raped her. She did not want— and she was the daughter of an EU official. Wow. So it was known. So she said when it came out that she had lied— why would you lie about who raped you? She— I didn't want to elicit ill will toward immigrants from the Middle East. Whoa, that's not a show.

No, it's not.

These— a lot of these people are true believers. When I was greeted by a chorus of F you, F you, using the word, obviously, when I spoke for Moms for Liberty in Philadelphia a few months ago, they were convinced I was evil. It was not a show. They were convinced I was evil. And I even said to them, I told you, I walked over.

Yeah.

Said, why do you hate me so much? I'm just curious. And that, but that what they did was they came out with, oh, You support Nazis? Oh, no, no. That was a common answer.

I know it is.

I just don't know. You as a Jew who has fought antisemitism his whole life, whose grandfather lost his brother to Hitler, and I support Nazis. And it had— they must believe that. So it's— so here's the question: what is scarier, people who believe their lies or people who are lying? I think people who believe their lies, because they're— you— the people who lie and know they're lying, there's hope. People who who believe their lies, there's very little hope. I mean, people in Germany believed Jews were inferior. I mean, it's astonishing. It's an astonishing thing given how the particular irony in Germany was because Jews were disproportionately successful in the arts, in culture, in finance. It's a pretty odd group to be Right. Untermenschen, you know, under people, subhuman. The truth is, in the final analysis, it almost doesn't matter.

Yeah.

Because either one does as much, equal amount of damage. But the question is worthy so that we figure out what can we do. Because if you believe that It's very tough. It's very tough because you're— you've staked your life on a lie. It's not like the kid who says, you know, he, he, he, he broke that expensive vase in the house, not I, but he knows he's lying. You would want your child who did that to know that they're lying. If they, if they convinced themselves they were telling the truth. That's psychopathological. When a leftist says men menstruate, we find it almost impossible to believe they believe it. You find it impossible. You think it's a show.

I think there are some true believers. I think when I see people like screaming and having that kind of reaction, I think that's it's a bit of a show. I think they feel obligated to seem more offended than they are.

That returns to one of your friend Dennis Prager's favorite themes: how you act affects how you think.

Yes.

If you get hysterical enough, you'll start believing in your history.

Is that true? Yes, there was. I'll end very fast, but there was a girl who, um, I'm not going to, I'm trying to conceal a lot of details over the years I, uh, did sports with. And she said that she was bullied on one of the sports teams and she made up these absurdities about people holding scissors to her and feeling like she was going to die and trust me, it was just not true. I admit I wasn't there to watch the alleged incident, but there's just, it just, there was, there was no way it was true. And she went on to leave the team and start her own, like, anti-bullying organization. Remember last Dennis and Julie, I was talking about all these phony organizations that people do to get into college. And it got pretty big for her, this, this bullying. Anti-bullying organization. And it was fascinating because all of us on the team would talk about her, and we all agreed that this never happened. And we would watch videos of her recounting the scissors incident, and we would go, she really believes that. This is, you know, 3, 4, 5 years out, and she's speaking to promote her charity. And you just look, and like, she has repeated that story enough times to herself. You watch her, she really thinks that happened to her.

I wouldn't be surprised if O.J. Simpson started to believe he didn't kill his ex-wife or his wife. Yeah.

On that happy note, by the way, this month, October, it was like the 10th or something, or not 10th, 20th anniversary of him being let off. It was October 3rd, 1994. Oh, so it's next year. Okay. Anyway, useless trivia. Or is it 30 years? Holy moly, is 1994 to now 30 years?

Remind me to tell you what I— what happened that day. Oh, I have a very interesting story.

Oh, that leaves me in suspense.

Good.

I may have to ask after we're off the air. You can reach me at julie@julie-hartman.com. I love hearing from you. I'm so sad that I can't respond individually to each of you, but if I don't, just forward it to me so that it's at the top of my inbox and I can see it. You can also follow me at Julie R. Julie Hartman on Instagram and Twitter, and you can follow Dennis @TheDennisPrager. Dennis and Julie is every Monday on this channel, 1 o'clock Pacific, 4 o'clock Eastern, and of course you can download it on Apple and Spotify. Take care everyone, see you soon. Shalom.

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