Dennis & Julie: Authentically Alone

Your dog and a stranger are drowning. You can only save one. Who do you choose? Dennis Prager says your answer reveals everything about how you define right and wrong. In his new book, If There Is No God, Prager exposes the danger of emotion-based morality and why without objective truth society descends into chaos. This isn't a religious book. It's a rational case for moral clarity in a confused age. If There Is No God from Dennis Prager. Order now at PragerStore.com.

Hello everybody and welcome to the very first broadcast podcast of Dennis and Julie. I'm the Dennis of the Dennis and Julie. Dennis Prager. Julie Hartman is the Julie of the Julie of the Julie of the Dennis. There's a big deal to me. I think it's a big deal to Julie and hopefully to you too. I just want you folks to know, been broadcasting for 40 years. I never co-hosted a show. I've always broadcast on my own. It gives you an idea of how much I respect and have affection for this young woman that I would have a podcast with somebody. And we'll explain what we're going to do in a moment. First, I want you to know Dennis and Julie is brought to you by MyPillow and your support of them. What's the promo code, Julie? Is that correct?

The promo code is actually Hartman, H-A-R-T-M-A-N, much to my dad's delight. I'll get a kick out of that. His last name is now a promo code.

When you have reached the status of a promo code, Julie, as you well know, you have really made it in life. You're— I'm thinking of your parents now and it's cracking me up. My father would have loved that. I totally get what you're saying. Maybe one day we'll do your mother's maiden name as a promo code. Then we've really—

She is— She's very proud of that maiden name, so we will have to do that for her.

Exactly right. So folks, let me tell you a little bit about Julie Hartman, who is all of what, 22 or 21?

22.

22 years old. So in a nutshell, because I could spend the entire podcast telling you about the— how our relationship grew from nothing, truly nothing. I get a lot of mail, and there's no predicting what emails I will open. I'm talking about the emails at my public DennisPrager.com address. And for whatever reason, I opened up her email, and in a nutshell, she described herself and having been deeply affected Specifically by one of my books, Think a Second Time, which I think is a very, very important book about America and about the world.

Still the Best Hope, Dennis.

What did I say?

Not Think a Second Time.

Oh, you're right.

You said Think a Second Time.

You're right. Thank you. That's correct. Well, thank you. Well, that was my way of hinting that I've written more than one book in a very unsubtle way. Actually, yes, Still the Best Hope about America and the world. About the left, and that essentially that, and then watching PragerU videos, listening to the show, etc., moved her over to the conservative side of looking at life. And mentioned that in passing she dropped the H-bomb, the well-known phrase for attending Harvard. And since she lived in Los Angeles, I invited her to visit the show. And then I invited her onto the show, and then I invited her to sit in for me when I was off the show, and she became the youngest person, I think, in history to actually host a national radio show when she did sit in for me. Each time she was extraordinary. She is extraordinary. I don't say it as a compliment. I say it as a fact. She is deep. She is thoughtful. And she is the rarest of things, courageous. She wrote a piece very recently in the Wall Street Journal about the sheep-like behavior of her fellow students at Harvard. It's not easy to get into a national publication like the Wall Street Journal, let alone to criticize all of your fellow students, or nearly all of them. So that in a nutshell is Julie Hartmann. And we have, uh, we have formed a bond of our own, which I treasure, my wife treasures. So Julie, here we are. I, if somebody had said to you 2 years ago, you'll do a podcast with Dennis Prager, how would you have reacted?

I would have freaked out. I mean, I pinch myself all of the time that I am sitting here doing a podcast with you, and 2 years ago you were on my computer screen. I was watching your fireside chats. I actually remember the day you responded to my email. I freaked out. I went, oh my gosh. And I just thought you were going to write back a one sentence, oh, thank you so much. And then when you invited me onto the show, it was just— it was a dream come true. And I know that you have never had a guest host— or excuse me, a co-host before, so I am just tickled pink that I got to do this with you. So thank you so much.

No, it really, it really is something. And I, I hope that Salem does a good job in publicizing it, though things do grow organically. People will tell their friends about it and so on. So before, uh, even more about, uh, your critique of your students, I have no idea how it hits you. And I have spoken— well, let me say how it hits me and then get your, your own reactions. It is very hard for me to get down. I, I have an upbeat personality and nature. It's a gift from God or nature. I, I can never know which. So it takes a lot But the Russian invasion of Ukraine has, uh, has depressed me somewhat, and so has the correct— I'm not advocating America send troops in, I don't think it's viable or feasible, but I have to say I feel like a very strong man with a lot of weapons Standing by and watching a woman get raped in the middle of the street. That is how I feel as an American, knowing how strong we are and watching. So I'm curious, and I'm not at all suggesting you should have a similar one, what is your take? What is your emotional reaction?

Oh, it's just devastating. I mean, seeing the photos on the news is just, it really puts everything in perspective. And I agree with you, Dennis. I mean, I think the economic sanctions are good, certainly something that we should be doing, but it doesn't quite strike me as enough. For instance, I was just reading this report that there's a 40-mile-long convoy of Russian vehicles that's going straight into the capital. We have the power to stop that. We have the power to mow those things down. Why aren't we doing it? Another thing is, why aren't we stopping Russian planes from flying into Ukrainian airspace? Why don't we sort of partner with NATO and tell Russia, if you go in there, we are going to shoot those planes down? I understand that we've learned the lesson from Iraq and Afghanistan that maybe committing troops is too much, but it seems as though we're sort of leaving the Ukrainian people out to dry. We gave $85 billion to Afghanistan that just ended up falling into the hands of the Taliban, and these Ukrainian people have such spirit and they want to fight. Now, of course, I do think many people in Afghanistan were wanting to fight and wanted a better life, but unfortunately the Taliban did take over. But the point is, the Ukrainian people are far more equipped to use these weapons and supplies, it seems to me, in a good way. And so why aren't we doing that? I agree with you, it just, it doesn't seem like we're doing enough.

So look, the man who did this invasion, uh, has threatened quite explicitly, certainly implicitly, that this could turn into a nuclear war. I want to tell you, Julie, obviously this is so much before you were born. In fact, I was in high school, so it's a long time ago. The, the Cuban Missile Crisis, and everybody speaks of it as a, as the world at the brink of nuclear disaster. I got to tell you Nobody I knew, certainly none of my fellow high school students, were scared in the least that there would be a nuclear war with Russia over Cuba. The idea that Russia would go to mutual assured destruction, as the term was known, because of Fidel Castro struck everybody that I knew as absurd. I know the, the, the, the The top people in Washington speak of it as on the brink, on the brink, and on the brink. I didn't believe it for a second then. I don't believe it for a second in retrospect. I do believe it today. I think the man is deranged. I think the man equates Russia with himself like Hitler equated Germany with himself. And he would go down in this great Götterdämmerung ending of the Wagner Ring, The Ring as it's called, of operas, and, you know, with everything burning. So, uh, I, I, I know we can't commit troops. So that's, that's— it's the— it's this terrible realization.

Well, let me ask you this, Dennis. One of the things that I'm thinking about is yes, I do think that Putin is deranged. I do think that he has some very ambitious visions for the future and that he would not be afraid perhaps to use nuclear weapons. That being said, as much as we're afraid of Russia going that route, aren't they also afraid of us going that route? In other words, are they not afraid that we're going to retaliate with nuclear weapons? What is different to you about the situation we were in the time of the Cuban Missile Crisis and now?

That's the 64,000 ruble question, and here is my answer. Khrushchev wanted to live. Khrushchev did not think he is Russia. Khrushchev was a communist apparatchik, a communist— what's the word apparatchik in English? A guy who just, you know, works in the firm. And he didn't want to die. He didn't want to lose his special house and all his riches that he had. He wasn't going to die for Cuba. So that's what I mean. There is no comparison. This guy is living alone, essentially, has been for 2 years. He was so scared of COVID which is always a very bad sign when people are that scared irrationally. He was scared, so scared of COVID he tested the fecal matter, the feces of anyone who came, any of the generals who came to see him. I mean, this is a different, entirely different quality of human being. Not that Khrushchev was a nice guy, but it's still, there's no comparison between the two. That's why this is a scarier proposition. He wants to reconstitute the Russian Empire. Khrushchev didn't want to reconstitute the Russian Empire. Cuba was never part of the Russian Empire. It's a big difference. Does that make sense?

Well, I guess I want to— No, it does make sense. I see what you're saying, but what do you think we can do to stop him? Do you think these economic sanctions are enough, or do you see see it my way, that we should maybe not commit troops but sort of implement these more heavy-handed retaliatory measures?

Well, the— once you commit anything— you mentioned the, the airspace. If, if we— if an— if not even we— if a NATO jet enters the airspace and shoots down a Russian airplane, a Russian fighter jet then it's a war. Then that's an official war between NATO and Russia. So most people do not think it's a good idea because of the nature of the man there. By the way, you asked, and I didn't mention this, you asked about, you know, do these people want to be destroyed, you know, in this mutual assured destruction If they attack, don't they know they would be attacked with nuclear weapons? Who's the they? That was what I meant to say, then I didn't. There is no they. It's he. If it was they, I wouldn't worry. There is no they there.

Right. So that's the scary part.

Yes, that's why it's not good to have dictators.

What would you do if you were If you were President Biden, what would you do right now?

I would frack and drill and get the pipeline back that I knocked out the first day I was in office. The reason—

what was that, the first executive order?

Yes.

Crazy. It was like the top 5 first executive orders.

So let me ask you a question. So you're— look, you are— I won't say a unicorn, but damn close. So let me, let me ask you, if I asked these questions, had this dialogue with the, with the average student at Harvard, well, what do you think he or she would say?

I think if you asked the average Harvard student, is Putin's invasion of Ukraine evil? They would say yes. But frankly, that's pretty obvious. I think a lot of the reason why they say yes, though, is because the American elite, in a sense, the professors, CEOs, members of the mainstream media have told us that this is evil. And the question that I ask myself is, if those people didn't condemn this thing, would we condemn this thing with the forcefulness that we're doing now? And it's troubling to me that we have to sort of look left and right and see what our peers think and what the adults think in order to assess if something's evil. So Dennis, I think that a lot of students here would just echo what they're hearing from the mainstream media or what they're hearing from the adults.

My dear viewer, maybe the adults aren't wrong on this specific thing. My dear viewer, my dear listener, now you know why I chose to leave her to be a podcast, to do a podcast with me. See, I, I've been interviewing people for 40 years, so pretty much I anticipate the response, which doesn't render the response any less excellent or anything, but you gave me an answer I didn't anticipate. And it goes— that's what I love about your mind, because it's an original mind. You don't even have to react because I'm not complimenting you, I'm just describing you. So the— that what you just said is such a big deal, and it coincides with your article in the Wall Street Journal that your fellow students are largely sheep. And that's— you just gave an answer in keeping with your thesis. Well, they were, they were given the green light by the authorities to consider it evil.

Yes. Well, most of the time I have found evil only exists if it's on the very short list of ideologically approved no-no set by the— well, maybe I shouldn't say the very short list. It's probably actually quite a long long list, but it's racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, Islamophobia. That is the list of ideologically approved no-nos. And evil exists to the extent to which it's on that list. And what's interesting about that list is that I have found that people are far more focused on hunting down evil attitudes and intentions than evil actions. Yes, people condemning this Ukraine invasion is an exception. They're condemning an evil action. But far more important to the cohort of people that I'm surrounded with is the sort of invisible evil, the intentions and the attitudes that people have. That's what we see with this whole defund the police movement. People support it because it's supposedly fighting evil attitudes and intentions of systemic racism or just the fact that we have a police force is something malignant. But then when there's actual violent savage murder, when the woman is pushed in front of the train tracks in Times Square, or when the woman in LA is stabbed to death in the furniture store, no one sticks their neck out to condemn that, even though that is an evil action, because they're so afraid of the implication. Patience. The invisible evil is more important to them than the actual evil, and that's the problem.

That's right. Well, they of course would say, of course we condemn the stabbing of that girl— they was the USC student in, uh, in, in, in, in LA, the one working in the furniture store. But it— of course they would. But a UCLA student— thank you, Sean. But of course, it has died as an issue. It doesn't compare to the rare episodes, and they are truly rare, of a black who is killed unfairly. Obviously, a black criminal or a white criminal is killed fairly on occasion by police. But it is so rare to have that, and that is national news should it happen. Also, your point about thinking, this is new where you are condemned for your evil thoughts. That's the whole notion of microaggressions and the whole notion of you're a racist even if you don't know it. And then how can you possibly defend yourself against that? Also, by the way, even better, Julie, you hit one of the great themes of my life. I don't care what you think. I don't care what you feel. And I'll give a perfect example. I'm a Jew. I don't care if a person likes Jews or dislikes Jews. It is of zero significance to me. I only care how they treat us. I don't care if you have deeply anti-Semitic thoughts. If you don't act on them, keep them. Pickle them. What do I care? The mind is a very messed up place in the human species. Nobody has a pure mind. So this is what you said is such surpassing importance. We live in the age of idiocy. How do you think? Did you have a racist thought? Let's say they did. So what?

Yes. And you know, Dennis, to your point, they would condemn someone being murdered. They would condemn the fact that that woman was pushed in front of the subway or that woman was stabbed in the store. But what they're far more— they would more strongly condemn, I think, the sort of a racist attitude or implication of someone's words. And I think that they would be way quicker to denounce that as a problem than the soaring crime rates. That's what I was trying to point out.

You, and you were right. That's exactly right. By the way, in my opinion, that's the whole thing with Trump. Oh, look at what he said. Look at what he said. Look at what he tweeted. Look at what he thinks. Look at how he acts. No, no, no, no, no, no. Look only at how he acts. And I don't mean personally, I mean as president. Okay, this quote-unquote racist president created the lowest unemployment rates recorded in Black history in the United States. Isn't that a lot more important to the average Black, or shouldn't it be? Or to the average white for that matter, than what you think he thinks? Do I care what he thinks? Why do you care what he thinks? So he— the examples of what you just said are legion. This notion of let's have purity of thought is North Korean. They really do. They actually tell people in North Korea that the state knows that Kim Jong-un knows what you're thinking. And a lot of North Koreans believe that.

Scary. It is. Dennis, when do you see this emerging? Was this the case for your entire life? Because it's so prevalent now, this hunting down of the way people are thinking. Was this the same when you were my age?

That's a really, really good question. Look, it's much worse today, but it started when I was your age, or even before, to be honest. I remember thinking about the issue of— we were— it's related, it's not identical. When we as kids would be asked by teachers, so how do you feel about this? And I thought, what difference does it make? I remember as a kid thinking, what do you mean how do I feel about it? What the hell? What's the difference? My feelings are, maybe they're important to me and my mother. They're not important. So we've had this stress on feelings from pretty early on, actually. But certainly, even when I was a kid, it was more we assess people's behavior. We have entered the realm of assessing people's thoughts much more, much later in my life, and of course in yours too. That's, uh, that's the way it is. Hey folks, Mike Lindell has a passion to help everyone get the best sleep of your life. By the way, that is true. I sleep on his pillow every night. He created the Giza Dream bedsheets. They look and feel great, which means an even better night's sleep. Mike found the world's best cotton called Giza. Mike's latest incredible deal was the sale of the year. For a limited time, you'll receive 60% off the Giza Dream Sheets that come with a 60-day money-back guarantee and a 10-year warranty. You'll receive a set for as low as $39.99. For a limited time with any purchase, you'll receive Mike's softcover book free. And you use the promo code Hartman, H-A-R-T-M-A-N. That's Julie's last name, Hartman. Go to mypillow.com and click the radio listener square and use the promo code Hartman. Along with this offer, you'll also get the deep discounts on all MyPillow products, including the MyPillow mattress topper, MyPillow towel sets, and much more. Call 800-566-6745, use the promo code Hartman, or go to mypillow.com. Again, the promo code H-A-R-T-M-A-N. Julie, when we talked about, interestingly, the MyPillow thing, you had mentioned that this is very worthwhile to you because you don't get a full night's sleep all the time. I know I'm prying into your personal life, but I'm curious.

That's okay.

Uh, why would that be?

Well, I think I'm a tortured person. I'm Irish Catholic, and my mom just likes to say that we as Irish Catholics love to ruminate and worry about everything, and I'm certainly one of those people. It's something I've talked to you a lot about, Dennis, and I'm trying to work on just trying to compartmentalize many of my worries, but it's just the damn Irish blood in me.

That's fascinating. It's, it's probably, I think also that you're a female. You know, they, they did this, and I'm sure you've heard me talk about this, but I, I get such a kick out of it. At some, at some college, they did a test of men and women. They put men alone in a room for a few hours, no, no distraction, literally four walls and a chair. And then they did the same with different women. So they would ask them at the end, so what'd you think about? And the men said, sports and sex. Nobody was shocked. So I wasn't even interested. I knew what the men would say. I was curious to know what the women would say. And they said, we review conversations. And that—

oh boy, is that true?

Oh my God, the insight that brought me into women. Was profound beyond words. Wow, that's what goes on in a woman's head.

Oh, you have no idea, Dennis. I am going to be replaying every word of this podcast episode tonight as I'm trying to fall asleep. I just totally go back and relive it. And why do we do that to ourselves? The podcast episode is recorded, the conversation's over, we should just move on. But no, you can't move on unless you've tortured yourself about it for 2 hours.

You know, that is a perfect example because I won't be doing that when I go to bed.

Oh, I know you won't. I have a great ability to just zoom past it.

Well, right. And, and I'm male, so I've, I have a double advantage— my nature and my sex. It's true.

We as women, we really worry and ruminate and angst. We should take a page out of your guys's book in that regard.

You should. I wonder, but I, I don't know, is it influenceable? I, I can't— can you undo that? I don't know the answer. I know, you know, my, my wonderful wife Sue, you're very close to her, and so she has— she's female like you, so she has the same issue. So she solved it many, many years ago. Do you know that that's how she came to talk radio? It's a very interesting story. She didn't want to think about issues and problems all the time, so she decided, with her intellectually vibrant brain, to listen to talk radio. That's how she discovered me in Oklahoma, of all places, where she was living at the time. And she got hooked on, on talk radio, and it was— it had the benefit of intellectual stimulation and diversion from what was bugging her. So I don't know, maybe you should go to bed with talk radio in your ears.

Well, I have to tell you, the one— the biggest thing that has helped my sleep and has hurt my sleep is doing this job. It has hurt my sleep in the sense of I know that everything I'm saying is recorded and it's on the internet forever. And there are people on the internet who probably call me a bigot and fat and ugly and God knows what. So that sometimes keeps me up at night. But actually, I think it's done more to help my sleep because, and this is something that we've talked about a lot, Dennis, I was more miserable when I was silent about my beliefs than I am when I'm out and open about them. And I would have nights when I would lie there and I would go, this stuff is ridiculous. I need, you know, no one is standing up to this crap. And I would just lie awake at night and go, I see the world a bit differently than a lot of the people I'm surrounded with. And I feel very isolated because I constantly have to suppress it. And now that I've just been out in the open, for better or for worse, my beliefs are out on the internet. And that's been oddly liberating. It's helped me sleep better.

I use you as an example in many, many of my speeches when I address the issue, either because someone asked me about it or I just address it, about what a conservative could do, or even just a non-leftist. Do you keep quiet, or do you step out and, you know, get shot at? And I use you as the example because of what you said to me on my show. You went through 2 weeks of hell after coming on my show, and then you said you went to heaven. And I asked you why. And the 2 things that stayed with me are that you met so many kindred spirits as a result of coming out of the closet, which to my mind is everything in life, having kindred spirits in your life. And you added, and I sleep better at night. Totally apropos of our conversation now. I know for me, I cannot hide who I am. The thought of self-suppressing is like torture to me. So—

I would just so much rather be alone than in a group but not being who I am.

That's it. That's it. You would, by the way. I know you would, which is why we're doing a podcast. That's perfectly phrased. Did you know this? Have you learned this about yourself? I mean, how much could you have known about yourself at such a young age? But nevertheless, you know, awareness begins somewhat in high school. Did you know this about yourself?

Did I know what?

That you'd rather be alone and authentic than with the group and not yourself?

Oh, completely. I've known it from, from the time I was little. I've never been a group person. I've never really had a group per se of friends. I've just sort of had individual friends that are sort of in their own spheres. And, you know, it's funny because I wasn't exactly— I wasn't a con— I didn't realize that I was a conservative until I found your books and your clips. But I do remember in high school that a lot of the things that I was seeing didn't quite make sense to me. For example, microaggressions. I was, I just wasn't politically engaged at the time. But I remember thinking to myself, this just, this way of thinking doesn't quite make sense. Or just, there were just so many kind of themes that came up. And I remember thinking, I don't see the world in the same way that the people around me do. And so to answer your question, yes, that's always sort of been with me. And frankly, it's, it's, it's isolating. Sometimes I wish I were a group person. Sometimes I wish I did see the world in the same way that other people do, but I don't, and I have to deal with that.

So this is a subject for another time and a good one to end with, because this is really I'm sort of not embarrassed, but amazed to say that it's become clearer to me in the last couple of years than ever before. And what I'm about to say is no great revelation because I have no doubt people know this much younger than me, but I now realize it more than ever in my life. People are born with natures, and it's very, very hard to change them. That's both good and bad, but it just is. I mean, your answer to my question makes it, makes it clear you have this nature. If you didn't want to be part of a clique in high school, you realize how rare that is? For anybody in high school, especially a girl. So that, that is, that is who you are.

Well, it's who you are, Dennis.

I know, I know it is.

Really get each other. And that you made a point on your show, I remember I was in the studio over my winter break in January, and I think it was Your Ultimate Issues Hour, and you gave this fabulous talk on how people who do good are outliers. And that stuck with me because I really do want to be— I know I'm an outlier. And I don't even mean that in like, I know I'm an outlier, I'm so great. I know that I'm sort of— I don't fit into groups very well. I know that about myself, but I really do want to be an outlier that does good. So it was encouraging to to me to hear, okay, I may be an outlier, but outliers have a good place in history. So hopefully I can be that.

When you— I have to say, when you cite something I said and took it into your heart, you have no idea how much that means to me. Because I have tremendous faith in you. And it means a lot to me that that, that, that stuff that I say has meant a lot to you. It's a— this is a very special thing that, uh, that we have. And I hope that, uh, those of you listening or watching can, uh, can appreciate and enjoy us as, as in fact we enjoy each other. So this is our, uh, our first podcast, Dennis and Julie. Dennis Prager, Julie Hartman. We would— one of the things I think that I'd like to make perhaps a part of our weekly podcast, Julie, is to answer questions. I know that's a very appealing part of, of my fireside chat. So what do you think of that?

I would love it. I encourage people to email me on my website julie-hartman.com. Dennis, we're going to have to make a website of our own or an email address of our own, but in the meantime, please send it to me and we will absolutely read them. I think that would be wonderful.

julie-hartman.com, is that what you said? Right, yes.

julie-promocode.com. I love that.

Hey, so hey, let me ask you one more question. How often are your parents going to listen or watch these podcasts?

I don't know. I, I think—

will it be on a 24/7 loop in your parents' house?

They're very, very supportive of me. I'm very lucky. I think they will.

I know they're wonderful people. All right, everybody, see you next week. Thanks, Julie.

Thank you. See you all.

I'm gonna leave it all out there to dry. I'm gonna leave it all out there.

Your beloved dog and a stranger are both drowning. You can only save one. Who do you save? Every time Dennis Prager asks that question, his audience splits three ways. One-third chooses the dog, one-third chooses the stranger, and one-third aren't sure.

Why?

Because we live in an age where increasingly feelings define right and wrong. But if morality is based on emotion, then murder, rape, and theft are just opinions. And if people feel justified, why is rioting or destruction wrong at all? In his new book, If There Is No God, Dennis Prager explains why civilizations cannot survive without objective morality and why Judeo-Christian values shape the moral foundations of the free world.

If you claim that certain things are good, certain things are evil, independent of how you feel about it, you are in effect affirming God.

If There Is No God by Dennis Prager, available now at PragerStore.com. That's PragerStore.com.