Dennis & Julie: Drawing the Line

Your dog and a stranger are drowning. You can only save one. Who do you choose? Dennis Prager says your answer reveals everything about how you define right and wrong. In his new book, If There Is No God, Prager exposes the danger of emotion-based morality and why without objective truth, society descends into chaos. This isn't a religious book. It's a rational case for moral clarity in a confused age. If There Is No God from Dennis Prager. Order now at PragerStore.com.

Hi everybody, Dennis Prager and Julie Hartman. The Dennis and Julie Podcast. I'm debating whether or not I should acknowledge how much we both look forward to this.

You know, I think the audience is aware.

Okay, so I won't say it.

And I think the audience is aware that we also enjoy the music.

Yeah, okay, so you're right. Okay, this was a very, very subtle— I wouldn't say put down.

By me?

Yeah. Oh no, no, no, no, it wasn't bad at all. It was deserved. What you were implying was I mentioned that quite often, ergo no need to repeat. That's what I picked up.

You know what, we will have a similar thing at the end of the show because I'll say, follow me at juliarosenberg.

Yes, and then don't ask me. That's right, there is no need for that.

It's not asking. I'll say— I don't even ask anymore. I say, and you can follow Dennis on Instagram and Twitter. You go, really? You can? I have an Instagram. I don't.

I've stopped doing that.

No, you have.

Oh, it's painful. The whole thing's painful. What an auspicious beginning. Anyway, there was so much percolating in my mind, and I wanted to— I'm going to do a personal thing at the outset. I know you'll find this of interest. So I just got off 4 time zones in 6 days. All 4 US time zones, different speeches, different events and broadcasting. So people regularly say to me, aren't you tired of all that travel and work? So have I told you the answer that I give? Because I don't know. Okay, good. By the way, what number is this?

80, I think, right?

Wow, it is number 80.

That's amazing.

It is. So I always find the question completely understandable, completely. And, and this is what I generally say to the person who's often a stranger but who knows me. And I, and I say to them, so What you're asking is, am I getting tired of people in different parts of the world asking me to speak? Mm-hmm. And as soon as I say that— and by the way, and to be honest, often paying me to do so— and as soon as I say it, to their credit, They simply go, okay, I forget, forget I asked the question or something to that effect.

But you don't mean it to stand them up, obviously.

No, no, I— because it's the most honest answer I can give. Why would I be tired of such a gift in my life?

Well, it's a credit to you because there are a lot of celebrities, and I've met some of them, who take it for granted and view their fan base as a nuisance. Excuse me. I can imagine it must be difficult to go out in the world and constantly, especially if you're like a really, really, really famous celeb. I can imagine it's hard to be bombarded constantly. But, but I, I appreciate that you recognize that it is a gift, even when sometimes you're tired or It's inconvenient.

I always realize a lot of people don't. A lot of people walk around amazed at my luck. Now, that doesn't mean I don't— I haven't worked for it, right? But as I always say, a lot of people work for things and bad things happen. We don't— God knows a lot of human beings don't get what they deserve. A lot of bad people don't get what they deserve, and a lot of good people don't get what they deserve. So I just wanted to reflect on that because it was such an oft-asked question about my life. So I just thought I'd share that with you. And it is, it's a total blessing, which by the way is another interesting thing because of all of my interaction with public figures, I wish somebody could follow me through a typical airport in America. It would be very touching to have. I wish I did have a video.

They'd be surprised at the diversity.

That's the, that's one of the big points. So in Denver, I was on the train from your, your gates to the baggage claim and ground transportation. And on the train was a pilot for, I think, United. No, American Direct, American or United, it's irrelevant. And he looks at me and big smile, comes over, asks for a selfie. And you know, it's this, you know me, this is not an ego trip. This is a thank you God that I have such a life reaction. But I will tell you this, I even said this to the guy, I think I said, I think Of all groups in America, my biggest support is among airplane pilots.

Really?

Yes.

Yes. Many tend— many of them tend to be conservative. Why do you think that is?

Oh, I've been— I drove myself crazy to figure it out. And then I thought, how could I miss it? So many are ex-military.

Hmm. I feel stupid now.

Oh, that's so true. Yes. This guy, I said it to him. He said, oh, I'm not ex-military, but, you know, It's not true for all of them, but for, but for a lot of them. Anyway, I just wanted to reflect on that.

You know, this is an undeveloped hypothesis that I'm putting out there, but oftentimes I can identify—

by the way, folks, I'm going to really embarrass her now. How many beautiful women say this is an undeveloped hypothesis that I want to put out there?

Probably a lot. Probably a lot. Anyway, yeah.

By the way, how many non-beautiful women? How many handsome men? Who says I'd like to put out an undeveloped hypothesis?

It does sound pretty nerdy.

Oh no, I love it. Go ahead.

My undeveloped hypothesis is that typically you can identify a leftist through their look, their dress, the pins on their backpack, the tattoos, the color. Well, increasingly not. And we've discussed that increasingly tattoos are, are sort of, you know, oh, you're talking about a legit identification of a leftist? Yes.

Like, I'm sorry.

Okay.

Yes. Tattoos does not tell you.

Correct.

Right.

I, I can kind of spot out a leftist.

Really?

Yeah. Oh yeah.

So give me the, uh, Give me the characteristics.

Funny, I was contemplating doing a show on Timeless about this, like 10 identifiers of—

I'm fascinated.

Leftist identifiers of conservatives.

Yeah.

Are you asking how I would be able to identify leftists?

Yeah, give me some of the characteristics.

I mean, and this is of course, you know, not everyone, blah, blah, blah. As you say, we have to put in so many qualifiers, it's absurd. But typically, if you have dyed hair, You're probably not conservative. If you look unconventional, if you look out of the norm of traditional dress.

Which was once true for tattoos, but now it is conventional.

And I'm not necessarily lamenting this. It's just an observation about reality.

So yes, that's a— so colored hair.

Chipped nails, colored hair.

What does that mean, chipped nails?

You know, it's like a cool— well, I say, you know, like you would know.

You don't know.

It's cool for women to kind of look a little like you don't care about your appearance. So if you have chipped nail polish, that is sometimes seen as cool.

That's fascinating.

Oftentimes people on the left wear, as I say, literally wear the uniform of their political identity, whether it's an end the patriarchy shirt or a P word grabs back pin on their canvas environmentally friendly bag. Oftentimes lefties will wear Birkenstocks, they'll have nose rings, You can just kind of tell. And again, it's not necessarily, it's not an insult. It's just true. So anyway, what I was saying is that my undeveloped hypothesis is that it is generally, in general, you can identify a leftist through their appearance. And I think you can identify a conservative through their life experience. If I get in a taxi and someone, as I did, probably I had this happened about a year ago and someone says, as the driver said to me, that they're from Rwanda. I am pretty damn sure that they're conservative. And 9 times out of 10 when I talk to them, they talk about how much they love this country and how grateful they are.

Why do you think that is? Why do you jump to that assumption?

Assumption based on their life experience? Well, they've seen real evil and they've encountered real hardship.

That's what you didn't explain.

Okay. Yeah. Well, thank you. Yes, it's that they don't live in this world where the most egregious thing is that someone politically disagrees with them.

I would like to know how Black Africans vote.

Oh, I'm sure overwhelmingly conservative.

Yeah.

Well, especially compared to African Americans.

Well, no, that's a given. Yeah. But that's true for any group. I have a great story for you, but go on.

No, please.

All right. So I— this was at JFK 10 years ago. John F. Kennedy Airport in New York. And I was having my shoes shined. The black guy. And he was either from the Caribbean or from Africa. He had immigrated here. That's all that I remember. That's all that is relevant to this story. You never heard me tell the story? Oh, you'll— this is fascinating. So, you know, I'm not really that good at small talk, as you well know, and I, I— so I, I just decided we had bonded enough over my shoes that I could ask him this question. I said, listen, I'm— I have no I'm not testing you. I don't care what your answer is. I'm just curious. Please tell me your honest feeling. Do you think America is a racist country?

I do that all the time. All the time.

What, to Blacks?

To anyone who I'm like around. All right. Strangers.

All right. So this— but I did it specifically because he was Black, but not because he was Black. Black immigrant. As I said, Caribbean or Africa, which is where all Blacks who immigrate here come from generally. And this is why I'm telling you the story. He looked around before he answered me. Would anybody—

How sad is that?

Beyond belief sad. And he said, no. He didn't want people to hear. That a Black man was denying that America was racist.

Isn't it amazing to think that the opinions that are so reviled today were totally mainstream and uncontroversial a few decades ago? Right.

It's best to get married and raise children is now considered white supremacy. And I have proof. The woman, I forgot her name. She was a, she's a professor of law at the University of Pennsylvania Law School, an Ivy League law school. Dennis Prager wrote a piece in the Philadelphia Inquirer with another law professor from, I think, UC San Diego, saying, you know, they're— it's pretty basic what you need to succeed in America: good middle-class bourgeois values, namely graduate high school, get married, get married before you have children, and get a job or get a job and get married, whatever the order. 250 law professors wanted her dismissed from teaching her class at the University of Pennsylvania. I'm only verifying your point.

Unbelievable.

What is wrong about get married before you have children? That is now considered white supremacy.

Saying that you love America and you're grateful for America is now considered to be white supremacy.

Putting out the flag.

Yes. Even saying, I mean, saying that a minor should not be allowed to make a decision to cut off her breasts is now considered a bigoted, controversial position. It's amazing. I often point out to leftists or Democrats who are challenging me, you know, my opinions that are so awful for me to have were the mainstream adopted opinions that your favorite candidates, Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden, Barack Obama, accepted 15 to 20 years ago, perhaps even sooner, such as gay marriage. That's something that we have a bit of amnesia about. They opposed gay marriage until like 2015.

Good. You opened up an interesting little story for me to tell you. So I have mentioned on many occasions in public that my wife and I are the godparents of a gay couple's children, their two sons. We're very close to this couple. And I— he— one of them has been a member of the board of directors of PragerU. He's a wonderful human being. They're both wonderful men. They have wonderful sons. And he came over to me just at the latest PragerU retreat in Nashville. And he said, so I want you to know that— and then mentioned his partner's name— we are getting married, which shocked me. I thought they were married. And he's doing it because of tax reasons, he said, and, and in case one of them dies, it just makes it so much easier for inheritance and so on. And then he said, and M— I'll just use the initial of his partner— M and I would love you to officiate the marriage, but we know you're against same-sex marriage. And I tell this story as such a credit to them and to me, more a credit to them even, but nevertheless. Why is it a credit to them? They love me and know I'm opposed to same-sex marriage, but they know I love them. And do you know that I have been attacked from the right, from parts of the religious right? He and his wife are godparents to gay couples' children. How could this guy who claims to be a conservative and religious That's terrible. Yes, it is terrible. And when that happens, I think maybe I now I better understand why some people think religious people hate them.

Oh gosh, you have so opened an avenue of discussion about Republicans who have certain positions that are— that A, disgust me, and B, don't do anything to help our cause. They actually confirm what the left stereotype of us is, or they confirm the caricature that the left has of us. But before I get to there, and there's a story that's associated, what that couple understands in saying, we would love to have you officiate our wedding, but we know that you're not, that you're opposed to gay marriage. What they understand is the true meaning of tolerance, which is a word that's thrown around a lot, but is completely forgotten and misused. Tolerance is accepting, being tolerant of other people's opinions, lifestyle choices, but not endorsing them. And that's, that's a beautiful thing. It is like, whatever happened to valuing that? Everyone deserves— I mean, of course, if you're violent or a murderer or something, then you don't deserve tolerance. You deserve punishment. But Barring truly objectively despicable and dangerous people, everyone deserves tolerance. Everyone. Conservatives, gay people, trans people, religious people. Everyone deserves it. And now it's— it's—

well, tolerance means celebrate, right?

Tolerance now means endorsement.

No, it's gone to— and it went to endorsing it. And no, And now it's celebrate. It's 3 stages. Tolerate, endorse, celebrate.

That's a good point. Endorse is different than celebrate. That's right. And adopt it into your own life. Teach your children these gender and racial codes. Don't, that, you know, you have to even, I was at a bar in downtown Los Angeles the other day, which by the way, downtown LA, oh my gosh, it is so dangerous. It is so dangerous. And have you been there recently?

No.

Don't go. Don't go. It is so dangerous.

Why would I go?

Well, I was there for an event, a debate, which we can discuss. It was interesting for a number of reasons. But I met my roommate there before the debate to get drinks. And we were there maybe at like 5 o'clock. The event started at 7. We got drinks at this bar. It was so dangerous. There was literal human feces on the street.

Really? You saw that?

Yeah. Well, I almost stepped in it. Seriously, I almost stepped in it. Thank God my roommate like tackled me, basically saved me from a really awful experience. There were so many homeless people and almost all of them were Black. That's the thing that gets me so angry about people who claim to be, oh, so sympathetic to— I mean, there are so many overwhelmingly Black people suffering as a result of these crazy policies. Homeless, homeless people who are deeply suffering. Anyway, it was, it was depressing actually, but that's not the point. The point is I was, I was at this bar and we had a very, uh, a very openly trans waiter with these really long like bedazzled fingernails. And it was male to female. Male. It was a male, yes, dressing up as a female.

How did you know?

I could tell. Okay, he was tall, you could see the muscles, you know, wearing a tutu. And of course, it's not even a question that I was lovely, and I'm lovely to anyone and everyone. And whatever his or her choices are, are his or her choices. But I thought about what would happen if someone was a little rude to that waiter because they didn't like his or her lifestyle choices. And I thought that people would get so angry and treat it like it was the worst thing in the world. And I don't endorse being rude to anyone. I think everyone deserves to be treated with respect. But back in the day, if someone was rude to someone else, and even if there was like a hint of disapproval of them for whatever lifestyle choices they have, people used to accept that and just shrug it off. And now if someone was a little rude to this trans waiter, it would be like the biggest deal in the world. I think about that story that your wife tells of working— where does she work? Applebee's?

Oh, no, I won't say the name of the restaurant.

Oh, okay. Oh, sorry.

Yes, it doesn't matter. It was an Applebee's.

But anyway, and the waiter and one of the managers went up and grabbed her breast.

Yes.

And of course, that's not okay. We all know what is saying. That's okay. That guy should have been fired.

She took his hands away and continued serving her meal.

Exactly.

My wife did not have PTSD. Whatever happened Do you think she was sexually assaulted? Because if she was sexually assaulted, what term will we use about rape?

Yes, exactly. It's a very good question. Yes. But whatever happened to when someone is doing something that even is wrong? What? Whatever happened to just shrugging it off? I truly don't understand.

Well, you know, the, the best example right now is what happened to the president of the Spanish women's soccer team.

Are you familiar with that? Oh yeah, Luis Rubiales.

Very good. That's right. Luis Rubiales.

I'm looking at Sean because—

What is the woman's name?

Jennifer Hermoso.

That's damn impressive, ladies and gentlemen. Well, I just did a story on this, like, did you have a McDonald's piece on it?

I did not.

Oh, it's awesome. You get all the details with the inimitable— I said on the air, when I read her, I actually read her piece on the air and I said, folks, I just want you to know how much I respect Heather MacDonald. If Heather MacDonald wrote a piece with which I differed, I would ask myself, why am I wrong?

Yes, that's a very good line.

That is how much I respect her.

There are a lot of people who—

there aren't a lot, I will say.

Well, I would say there are a lot like on the conservative side who are so rational and clear thinking. Heather MacDonald, Tom Sowell, Clarence Thomas.

Right. So anyway, for those who don't know, in a nutshell, for the first time in history, Spain's women's soccer team won the World Cup. That's the, that's the greatest trophy in soccer. And of course, they went nuts as soon as it happened. They went crazy. And there was a greeting line where the president and other officials of the team would greet the women. So one of the women literally being bigger than the president, Rubiales, picked him up, lifted him from the ground and hugged him. They were ecstatic. You have to understand this.

Yes.

And he gave her as close to what would call a peck on the lips. Oh, closed mouth. 1 second.

1 second.

Literally 1 second. The man has been accused of sexual— not harassment, sexual assault.

There's a criminal investigation.

He is removed as the president. He is removed from the World Federation of Soccer. He— his name is dirt in the world community for that. By the way, she said it was nothing when it happened.

Well, afterwards, but she changed her tune.

Yes.

She said I was a victim of an assault.

Yes.

So insulting. Are you kidding? How do you think people who truly are assaulted think about that? And this in Spain is allocating their time and energy and resources to launch an investigation.

It's all of Europe. I mean, it's in the United States.

Gold dealers are a dime a dozen. They're everywhere. What sets these companies apart and who can you really trust? This is Julie Hartman for Amped Coin and Bullion. Dennis Prager's choice for buying precious metals. When you buy precious metals, it's imperative that you buy from a trustworthy and transparent dealer that protects your best interests. Many companies use gimmicks to take advantage of inexperienced gold and silver buyers. Be cautious of brokers offering free gold and silver, or brokers that want to sell you overpriced collectible coins claiming that they appreciate more than gold and silver. What about hidden commissions and huge markups? Nick Grovich and his team at Ampfed have always had Dennis Prager's back. Nick's been in this industry for over 42 years, and he's -established a reputation built on trust, transparency, and fair pricing. If you're interested in buying or selling, call Nick and his team at Amped Coin and Bullion, 1-800-221-7694. Americanfederal.com. Americanfederal.com.

It's a sick time we're living in.

It is a sick time.

You can't be human. In Spain, it is much more common anyway to, to kiss people on the lips, even relatives. I don't happen to like it, and I've never done that, what he did. But so what? So what? Let us say it was even improper.

Okay. Yes, that's my point.

Okay.

With being rude to a trans waiter or, you know, I mean, there was a— there was an incident a few years ago. I was in CVS with my sister Gina, who's severely autistic. And she's, you know, she's very difficult to bring out in public because she's— she'll start throwing things or she'll get loud. You know, she does these kind of like songs that she sings and it's disruptive. I understand. That. But we're in line to get a prescription. And this woman behind us was looking at Gina and she goes, oh, very audibly and clearly.

With regard to what?

Because Gina was going, hmm. You know, she was doing— and I understand it was a little disruptive, right? But there was no empathy that, you know, clearly this person is very impaired and we're trying. And I'm looking around, you know, feeling embarrassed with this, this woman, this this old biatch went, ugh, so audibly. If I were a social justice warrior, I would go, bigotry, anti-disabled bigotry. This is the worst. But you know what I did? I just looked at her. I gave her a dirty look and I shrugged it off. Whatever happened to that? Again, even when someone is doing something wrong, we're such babies today.

On many occasions on my happiness hour, I have told people, You choose whether or not to be hurt.

Yes.

It's a choice.

True. Okay. So can we pivot or shift into the Republican clown discussion? That's what I am calling this person with the story I'm about to tell you. Said that there are some people on the right who were upset at you for supporting the gay couple. So I had an incident this past weekend that really made me disappointed in some people on the right. It's sad to say because we are really in a civilizational crisis and I feel so grateful for fellow conservatives and Republicans. And it's very demoralizing when you see people in your own camp, if you will, act like clowns. So I was out at a bar. It seems like I'm going to bars a lot lately. I don't. It's shocking. But I did happen to go out twice in few days. Anyway, I'm out at a bar on Saturday night with a person we both know, one of my friends from your synagogue, and then two other mutual friends. So there were four of us there, and all four of us happened to be conservative. We're sitting at the bar, and this guy—

girls—

four girls, thank you. We're sitting at the bar, and these two guys come and sit next to us, and one of them turns to us and says, Are you girls conservative? And we were like, yeah, we are. You actually happened to hit the jackpot because 4 of us are conservative, we're in Los Angeles, we're female. It was just kind of this amazing connection. And he said, oh, I could tell, you know, you guys, you just gave off this vibe. So the interaction started off really great. Turns out we know some people in common. It was, it was again a really nice interaction. I could sense that the guy was a little glib. He seemed a bit arrogant, but whatever, didn't matter. Then one of my friends, it somehow came up. She somehow said that her, both of her parents are from the former Soviet Union. And this guy, the Republican clown, responds, I hope that Putin wins the war, which pause right there. Even if you think, even if you want Putin to win the war, if someone just said that their parents are from the Soviet Union, maybe that's not the best thing to say in return. For instance, if someone said to me, you know, my— both of my mothers are lesbian, I wouldn't respond, well, I think the pride movement has become evil. Like, I would just know to shut up. You just don't do that. So And it's far more legitimate to say the Pride movement has become evil than it is to say that you hope that Putin wins the war. But in any case, read the room, buddy. So then he digs his heels in and he starts saying, I said, why? And he goes, well, Putin's a traditionalist and I love that he's a traditionalist. I said, okay, well, he's also a mass murderer who executes and tortures people who disagree with him. And this guy goes, well, they deserve it. A lot of the people who oppose Putin deserve it. And I said, really? And I said, how about Alexei Navalny, who has stood up for free speech and democracy in Russia? And he's now literally wasting away in a Russian prison. And the guy goes, Alexei Navalny's a lib. And I said, even if he is a lib, if you are conservative and you're pro-American values, we believe here in America that people have a right to disagree with us. Even the people who we hate should be allowed to speak and shouldn't be thrown in. I mean, it was just It was so upsetting. And my friend, God bless her, really kept her cool. But I know it was really hurtful to her because she has family that's in Russia, family that's in Ukraine who are victims of the atrocities. And I said to this guy, if you want to make an argument that we shouldn't be financially supporting Ukraine in the war, totally fine. If you want to make the argument that we were wrong to push NATO into the basically former Soviet bloc, fine. But to say that Putin is this great guy who you like and his victims deserve the torture that they are getting, that is evil. I said, that's irresponsible, that's evil. And I said, that's clownish. And finally, my— I really got into it with him. I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt, but it was just clear he was trying to be provocative. I said, You know, when people on the left want to make conservatives out to be these bigoted, brash people, they put people like you up on the TV. Don't give them that. It drove me nuts. And I think I'd be very interested to hear what you think animates someone like that. I have a theory. I think it's that we conservatives are so constantly smeared and ridiculed and accused of being things that we're not, that some people, some conservatives, view it as an act of resistance to become that stereotype and become that caricature that the left wrongfully has of us. I think this guy wanted to— there was something that he kind of got off on getting in people's faces and being like the the bigot conservative that people think he is. That was a lot.

Yes.

Thank you for listening.

My pleasure. There is a phenomenon of persecuted groups taking on some of the beliefs of their persecutors.

Oh, interesting. Yeah.

And So I'll tell you a very touching story about Jews. In the Middle Ages, something arose called the blood libel. It's the most famous libel in history, the most famous national libel.

Never knew it before you, by the way.

Which is sad. It should be better known. And it was spread among Christians that Jews would take capture a Christian child before Passover, slaughter the child, and use his or her blood to bake matzahs, the unleavened bread of Passover. So a very famous Jewish writer in the 19th century said this actually was liberating for Jews, which sounds counterintuitive. And this is what he said. Jews had started to wonder, with all the anti-Jewish calumny around— they're cheap, they're antisocial, they're whatever that was said about Jews— and this liberated them to finally say, wow, the whole world can lie. Because every Jew knew it was a total lie, right? Jews can't have animal blood, let alone kill a child for it, for human blood. So they all came to the realization, wow, the whole world can lie, or virtually not, you know, the whole world, but the whole world around them. So that, that can be a liberating moment when you, when you realize that, A, people assimilate some of the bad things said about them, which is your theory about this guy. Now that I have said this, I'm thinking, when will the non-left have their Jew moment about the left? Wow, They really do lie all the time.

I think we've had it.

Well, you and I have had it, many conservatives, but liberals haven't had it yet. So if you tell a liberal, you know, they are in fact advocating that teenage girls have their breasts removed if they say they're boys, they will say maybe there are some kooks out there who say that. They don't know the whole left supports it.

True.

I don't know of a left-wing medium or group that, uh, that has come out publicly to say this is vile. I don't know of one, and I follow this stuff avidly.

I do know one person. Her name is Kara Dansky.

Yeah.

And I interviewed her.

A person?

A person.

Okay. Persons that they're— she may have an organization, but yeah, I'm talking about Has the New York Times condemned it?

Of course not. Okay, exactly.

But liberals think the New York Times is biblical.

Yes, they do. I'm laughing because that's, that's so the right adjective.

Oh, by the way, it is the adjective. About 15, 20 years ago, they appointed a new managing editor, was a woman. And she said when she was named, she was so ecstatic. I forgot her name that she said Oh, this is— I can't explain how meaningful this is to me. In our home where I grew up, the New York Times was the Bible.

Boy.

So of course people like me said, that's exactly what we've been saying about the left's view of the New York Times all our life, because they don't have a Bible. So, but people need a Bible. So it's either going to be the Bible or the Communist Manifesto or the New York Times, or you name it, or you name it, insert something.

Yes.

They dropped that from their website, her quote.

Wow.

It's very hard to find now. That interesting.

That tells you something.

They got burned on that.

Yes, they did. Yes. This, this idea that people— but actually, well, I'll finish and then I'll ask the question. This idea that people assimilate some of the charges against them I think is true right now of both the right and the left. Before I analyze that, can I just ask— I'm not quite— maybe I didn't follow. How did the Jews do that with the blood libel? They didn't start repeating it.

No, no, no. What they did was they said, wow, they can all lie.

Well, that's—

so they were liberated from accepting the previous lies.

Yes. Well, that's an important point, but that's different from what I understood the assimilation thing to mean like this. This conservative clown who I met was literally becoming the lie. He was becoming the bigot, the, the person who condones autocracy.

Defender.

The Putin defender that the left says that we are. That's different from the Jews liberating.

You're right. You're right. It's related, but not the same.

It's— yes, it's related. This guy, what bothered me so much was there was something to him that was fun and ennobling and I think defiant about becoming the stereotype. I can provide other examples, both on the right and on the left. I'll give you one on the right. It goes without saying, I think the people who are being politically— the January 6th people who are being politically persecuted, it is evil. It is awful. It is happening. I totally recognize that. But there were a lot of people on January 6th obviously, who behaved despicably. And you see videos of these people and they're wearing horns and they have like these, you know, red, white and blue paint all over their body.

Yeah, but that was more— oh, I see. I know the point you're making. I don't want to upset— I just want to say that's more buffoonery than despicable.

Right. Fair. Yes. There were some— there are some people who were despicable and there are some people who were truly buffoons. The vast majority were buffoons. And we're just going, you know, running in, not, not being insurrectionists because an insurrectionist—

again, to clarify, the buffoons were buffoons. The vast majority were neither buffoons nor despicable. Okay, go ahead.

Yes. So anyway, the— I see these videos of people wearing the horns and just— and I kind of got this idea, and I'm sure I'll get some flak on the right for saying this, but you call me a goof, I'll show you.

I'm a goof.

It was, you think I'm a hick? I'll give you hick.

Yeah. That's an interesting point.

It was this like, "F you." I think you're right.

I think there is that element.

It was this way of saying, "F you," which I understand because I'm not saying I condone it, but I understand being so pushed to the limit wrongfully that your act of defiance is becoming the thing that, it's like if let's say you have a really abusive stepfather and the stepfather is saying, You're a terrible kid, you're mean, you're spiteful, you're awful. That kid is gonna wanna become mean and spiteful and awful to stick it to the stepfather. Like, you think I'm this person, I'm gonna give it right back to you. And I think it's a different thing, but I see also people on the left kind of becoming the stereotype of the alleged, insult that they perceive the right as levying against them. I'll give you an example. The right embodies the stereotype of the bad charge that the left levies against them. The left becomes the stereotype of the fake bad charge that the right levies against them. For instance, I noticed at Harvard, and again, it's not PC, but whatever, that a lot of Black students would kind of adopt this Ivy League take on hood culture. And I don't even think they would deny that, hearing me say that. And gay people in college, I would also see kind of like they would come in looking one way and then they'd graduate with nose rings and dyed hair and wearing Pride, you know, regalia a lot of the places that they went. And it was just interesting because they have this idea that the left or that the right hates people who have purple hair or people who have nose rings. So they become the stereotype that they think the right has of them to stick it to the right. But the reason why I said it's wrong is because we don't care if someone has purple hair or a nose ring. At least I don't. I was saying it earlier that it is true that when I see that, I assume that person is on the left. But that doesn't mean I hate or revile or am disgusted by that person for having that. But do you see what I mean? There's this on both sides. It's this weird, like, the other side thinks I'm this, so I'm going to become this to stick it to the other side.

It's a very interesting theory, and it's probably true about the people on the left you described.

But in one case, it's mostly wrong. In the other case, it's mostly right.

Yeah, I agree with that too. By the way, back to your waiter though, I may have a difference of opinion with you, which people love. Okay, I think they get a kick out of it.

And believe it or not, we do have them on this show.

So you had a waiter, a male waiter who was wearing a tutu, you said?

Yes.

And, and other overtly female— I mean, even females are not wearing tutus when they serve meals. Is that fair to say?

Yes.

Right. So you are right. I had this with my wife in Denmark last year when I spoke there. It was a guy wearing a skirt, a long skirt. And the truth is, totally sweet guy. It was obvious, somewhat of a lost soul. And so of course we treated him fine, gave the same tip I would give anybody. Yeah, but with the guy with the tutu, I, I, I may or may not differ with you. Of course I, uh, I would never humiliate a person, but part of me does wish everybody who had interacted with him at his table would say, you know, we have zero judgment on what people do privately, but once people do something publicly, the public has a right to react. And I think men should wear men's clothing and women should wear women's clothing. Because first of all, I think it confuses children, and that matters to me. And secondly, I think that civilization does depend to a certain extent, but a significant extent, on affirming male-female difference. I have nothing against you personally, but I feel I would be dishonest if I did not register that sentiment. I wouldn't do that, but I'm not sure that I'm right in not doing that. Your take?

I'm inclined to agree. I think it's hard because—

well, it's obvious why it's hard. You don't want to confront people, and none of us are big fans of doing that, right? Certainly not me. But I'm not sure that society is better for my timidity, right?

It's hard. It's— I mean, to state the obvious, because I don't think doing that would have the intended effect. I think it would only rile them up.

I believe if everybody did that, if I did that or you did that and 3 others in the course of a month, it would have minimal effect or none. But if everybody did it— see, what, what these people are saying— these people meaning those who are overthrowing norms, which they would acknowledge they're overthrowing a norm— they, they're saying, I can do whatever I want to upset the public but the public may not react. That's the rule. No, that is the rule. I mean, that's a given. I can do that. It's like, I mean, what if it were allowed? And I would like to ask people, and I have on the radio, what is your argument if you're not religious? What is your argument against public nudity? What if my waiter wore nothing or only underpants?

Right. Right.

What would be wrong? Would I be allowed to say, I wish you would get dressed? Is there anything— and we're not short of obviously violence— is there anything I am allowed to object to?

And that's the important distinction. You, you are allowed because I'm like you. You say you hear left-wing voices in your head with challenges to your argument. The left-wing voice I'm hearing in my head with what you just said is, so what are we going to be like a different flavor of Iran where Iran is forcing women to wear certain dress and you would force certain people to not wear certain dress? There's a difference between codifying something into law and then having social standards where you wouldn't criminalize or arrest someone for wearing a tutu in a restaurant. But I think you should be allowed to say, hey, that's—

yeah, but they believe you can force people to hire such a waiter. So they believe in coercion of the state on dress. A— I remember when this came up 20 years ago, where a retail store did not want its— one of its salesmen to walk around in women's clothing, said it wouldn't be good for business. Are you allowed to say that? No, you're not allowed to say that.

Right.

The public has no ability to say anything, at least anything against the the left.

Yes, yes.

Really, I would like an answer because I use my show, as you know, my human experiment. If a waiter wanted to walk around in underpants, so you can't argue hygiene, which is this, the San Francisco argument against public nudity. Right. Okay. So it's the genitalia and buttocks are covered and that's it. Can you, can you say something then without being considered a hater, or can you fire the person? My sister-in-law, when she was dating, went on a, went on some singles app, and the guy, one guy that she was beginning to correspond with, sent her a photo of himself in a diaper. Now, this is— I think we would all acknowledge— a bit pathetic, or more than a bit. So what if this guy wanted to be a waiter and wear a diaper while serving? I'm not being cute. Whenever people say that's ridiculous, no, it comes to fruition in a few years.

Exactly.

So what is the argument A, against my saying something as the customer at the table. B, the employer saying, I won't hire a man or a woman wearing a diaper.

I agree with you. I don't see any distinction. A lot of people would say that you're bigoted to even speak up if someone's wearing a diaper. Mike Lindell has a passion to help you get the best sleep of your life. He didn't stop at the pillow. Mike also created the Giza Dream bed sheets. These sheets look and feel great, which means an even better night's sleep, which is crucial for our overall health. Mike found the world's best cotton called Giza. It's ultra soft and breathable, but extremely durable. Mike's latest deal is the sale of the year. For a limited time, you'll receive 50% off of the Giza Dream sheets, marking prices down as low as $29.98. Depending on the size. Just go to mypillow.com and click on the radio podcast square and use the promo code Hartman. There you'll find not only this great offer but also deep discounts on all MyPillow products, including the MyPillow 2.0 mattress topper, MyPillow kitchen towel sets, and so much more. Call 1-800-566-6745 or go to mypillow.com and use the promo code Hartman. Of course you should be allowed to express your opinion. I mean, think about the counterpart. Let's say there was a waiter that was wearing a MAGA hat or t-shirt. I'm sure, first of all, I'm sure they'd be asked to take it off by the employer. But a waiter wearing it, by the way, I would support.

I don't want any waiter wearing any political message, even one I agree with.

Right. I agree. I agree with that. But the point is the double standard. The point is that And people will go, well, wearing a tutu isn't a political message, but it is. It is in a way. It's not entirely a political message.

One is that there's no such thing as female and male.

Right.

That's the biggest message.

Right.

Why do you associate tutu with female? I'm a male and I love it. Mm-hmm.

Yes, you, you, of course you should be allowed to, to speak up just as—

All right. So remember I started by saying I might be differing with you cuz you began with the statement you wanna be Respectful to everybody.

But I think that is being respectful. As long as you say it respectfully, you're allowed to say whatever the heck you want.

All right. So you would include that within the purview of respect?

I wouldn't get mad at someone for saying that.

Right.

Just as I wouldn't get mad at a liberal for saying to a conservative waiter that's wearing a MAGA hat, you really should—

I would go further. If you were on a date with a guy who did say it, you'd fall in love in a nanosecond.

I would certainly respect him if he were Not like the glib a-hole who I met the other night, who was actually saying something that was founded in reason and did it in a respectful way to someone. Yeah, that guy the other night, it was like when he heard that my friend was from the Soviet Union, he was ready to bite. Like he wanted to say that just to piss her off. Or to create trouble. I don't like people who just needlessly try to be provocative.

If he wasn't in— whether he was doing it to be provocative or meant it is equally bad.

Yes.

The first is staggeringly insensitive. The second is a broken moral compass. It's one thing to think we shouldn't be giving all this aid to Ukraine. Okay. It's an honorable argument. But that Putin should win and that his victims deserved the torture? Oh, that was amazing.

That is so wrong.

Well, you know what this all proves? My very sober view of the human conscience. It's largely worthless. Let's put it this way: we shape our conscience far more than our conscience shapes our behavior. What bad person is afflicted with a guilty conscience? It is so rare. Did Stalin sleep well? Did Hitler sleep well? Did Mao sleep well? Did all the people who did their policies execute their policy, sleep well.

Your point that you bring up often on this show and in any public forum that you do is this nature question, because there are some people like Hitlers and Stalins and Maos who sleep so well at night, just despite the fact that they are truly evil. And killing people, torturing people. And then there are other people like me who don't sleep well at night because I'm replaying a conversation I had with someone and I'm afraid that something I said may have been a little bit rude.

That's a good point.

It's so weird.

Yes. Well, it's very touching, actually, because maybe I'm not such a good guy after all, because I do sleep well at night. I'm not as afflicted as you are.

No, but you— I think mine is irrational. I think— I don't think it's that. I know I'm a good person, but there's a lot of irrationality sprinkled in.

But is it a moral issue or a female issue? Women review conversations and it keeps them up.

I think it's both.

I think, by the way, that's my— forgive me, I just got to say this.

Go ahead.

If men really could become women and vice versa, Do they also change their brain?

Yes.

Do men? Yes. Right. And it's a very important question. Yes. And start finding things. Exactly. On a more serious matter, but that is a fair question. Do they start reviewing conversations? Their brain, your brain doesn't change. And we know that there's a male brain and female brain. They're not the same brains, just as the chromosomes and the genitalia and the reproductive system and the chromosomes. The only enduring question right now is, will the left suffer for the staggering systemic child abuse that they are engaged in?

And that is the civil rights issue of our time. Just as people in the South during Jim Crow were being treated unfairly and exploited and maligned, that's what's happening to children right now.

And it's actually worse. Pro-slavery people argued, believe it or not, this was good for blacks. They've actually argued that for whatever bizarre reason. I don't remember the reasoning, but they argued that it— well, how is that different from this is good for teenagers to put them on hormone blockers and then cut their, their penis off in the male case or the breasts off in the female case?

And obviously there are few things that are worse than slavery. But if you compare Jim Crow, which was my comparison a few moments ago, what I said is the civil rights issue of the past century to the civil rights issue, I believe, of this century, the sanctioning of children being allowed to cut their—

self-mutilate.

Self-mutilate. As awful as Jim Crow was, people, it wasn't as life-altering and as permanent as cutting off your breasts and mutilating your genitalia is. Because people in the Jim Crow South, and I'm certainly not trying to say that, you know, give a pass to it.

It was ugly in the extreme, it was disgusting.

Of course it was ugly and disgusting.

I know, but I know it's amazing that you have to say it for the record.

I know, but it's like, it's, you know.

Because nothing could be worse.

Right, and you have to clarify everything you say. It's exhausting and ridiculous. But, you know, people in the Jim Crow South could hypothetically go to the North, or there are people who grew up in the Jim Crow South and this was overturned and they could, you know, go to different, as I said, places in the country where maybe they wouldn't face this. If you get a— if you get your breasts cut off and you, like Chloe Cole, decide 5 years from now that that wasn't something that you wanted, you That, that's it. There is no seeking relief. There's no going back. It's permanent. And that, that's the part of this that is especially— any kind of mistreatment and exploitation is wrong, but there's a really permanent nature to this, which is terrifying and I think kicks it up a notch in how evil it is.

The surgeons sleep well at night.

The who?

The surgeon who did that. I mean, isn't that astonishing?

The teachers who talk about this in schools and some of the parents who—

well, the parents, yes, some of the parents are just brainwashed fools. The kid is cursed to have such parents. But a lot of them are frightened into it. So they'll say, if, if your daughter says she's a boy Do you want a live boy or a dead girl?

I know, like, that's the—

those are the two options. What is the parent going to say?

I had a guest on, on Timeless. Her name is Theresa May, and she wrote a book. I think it's called How to Unwoke Your Life or something. But there's a chapter in her book where she talks about toxic empathy. I thought that was a really great term, toxic empathy, where people in the name of being compassionate or empathetic are doing these truly toxic, evil, terrible things. And I know some parents and some friends of people who are trans who engage in this toxic empathy because they, they really believe that it is the most compassionate thing to do to legitimize this gender dysphoria, especially when the person is young. We need to stigmatize toxic empathy. We need to understand that a virtue taken to the extreme undermines the virtue. That's one of the reasons why I love Machiavelli so much, which people on the left are probably like, of course the bigot loves Niccolò Machiavelli. Machiavelli, I think, gets a bad rap. He's in many cases exhibits great judgment and intelligence. And one of the things he says is precisely that point, that a virtue taken to its extreme actually becomes the opposite of the virtue. If you want to be merciful and you're merciful constantly, you allow for a lot of cruelty. That's what we're seeing in major cities. We have these woke progressive left-wing Democrats who are saying we shouldn't throw people in jail, we shouldn't police them. We shouldn't criminalize their drug use. And then it leads to this mayhem and destruction and death.

Jewish statement in the Talmud. There are two variants. One is those who are kind when they should be cruel will be cruel when they should be kind.

That's a good one.

And those who treat the cruel mercifully will treat the merciful cruelly. It's exactly, exactly what happens.

When I get left-wing hate, whether it's on social media, whether it's in my email, I think about how that person would treat a murderer. And oftentimes, and I think I'm right.

Well, it depends the color.

Well, true.

That's right. Class.

That's, that's a very, very important point. Yes. So people are going to call me evil for being a conservative, and I've been called evil for my views. But I think if the same person were sitting in front of a, as you say, Black or queer or immigrant, not a white murderer, you're right, but literally someone who killed someone, I don't think that person would be as quick to call the murderer evil as they were for me.

Murderers in this country have gotten less prison time than the Proud Boys.

Yeah, that's true.

We live in a country of a, of a Sovietized judiciary. Judges doing what the reigning authorities want or the party wants, just like they did in the Soviet Union. I say this and I could cry as I say it. But this, it shows you there is nothing, there is no institution so beautiful, so noble, that humans can't screw it up. If humans could screw up the freest country ever made, what can't they screw up? That's why, you know, it's not surprising that people have screwed up beautiful religions. No, the bad Christians, the bad Jews, the bad Catholics. It's— there is nothing beautiful humans cannot destroy. Institutions need to be preserved or they will crumble.

That's what someone— oh God, what was his name? I think it was John O'Sullivan, or maybe there is.

Yeah. John O'Sullivan.

Yes. The Margaret Thatcher's speechwriter or assistant. He said what you just said about conservatism, but conservatism is preserving the best, conserving the best institutions, art, music, culture, etc. And John O'Sullivan had this brilliant point where he said, if you are not actively vigorously, constantly practicing conservatism, you're drifting naturally to the left. Conservatism is something that is practiced. Leftism is whatever the feeling is at the time. In the moment, you just adopt it. You don't have to defend what's real and what has been. And so it totally makes sense that if you're not pursuing conservatism, just by default, you're going to be drifting. And that's part of the great issue, because people don't see a need, not just with practicing conservatism, but practicing religion. That's your whole cut flower ethics point. I call it the photocopy syndrome, where if you take a first copy of the original document, it looks a lot like the original, but then you keep photocopying it and it gets—

That's a good one.

It gets—

Nice.

Dimmer and duller. We're, we're in a very dim and dull stage of the photocopying.

That's right.

It's scary. I know I've said it on the show, and I'm really sorry to be pessimistic. It's scary as a 23-year-old looking ahead at my life and seeing how bleak things are now.

Well, you know my old question: who has it worse, those of us who've seen America when it was great?

I used to think it was people like you. I'm starting to think— sorry to sound victimist— people like me.

I asked the question without an answer. I don't know for whom it's worse. Maybe there is no worse. It's horrible for both. But I look at your generation and I think, wow, they can't even say they knew America when it was free.

It's interesting because I do remember Growing up, I, and I'm so grateful to my parents for doing this on the 4th of July. They would always take us to the parade and dress us up in American flag dresses.

Really?

Yes, yes. There are beautiful family photos and we would be wearing red, white, and blue waving the flag. It was really fun. And I, as a kid, remember the joy and the celebration of the 4th of July and the amount of people that would show up in my town to this parade. And I went to the same parade that I went to growing up. I went to it for the first time in like 7 years because I was in college and then I was out of town a few Fourth of July. So it was my first time going back there in quite a while. And the place was, was so much emptier than how I remember it. I acknowledge that when you're a kid, you think things are probably grander than they are. But, but even so, I actually, well, they didn't come with me to the parade. I went alone. But I went back and I looked at the photos and judging by the photos, my perception as a kid was right. There were more people and I asked other adults who've been to that parade and they said, yeah, it's definitely, definitely gone down. But you know what the one and only good thing, you know everyone there is a conservative.

That's true.

You know, you're just have all these kindred spirits around you.

I have a final question for you. Yeah, you're gonna love this. I now do something I should have done 40 years ago. I take notes of awesome things that are sent to me, said to me.

Oh, I know what you're going to say about the mother.

Yes, I told it to you.

Yes, it's hilarious.

It's hilarious. So there's Bingo— what? He just said bingo.

Yeah, we have Dennis and Julie bingo.

Oh, it's a bingo. No, no, I told it to her privately. I didn't tell it to her on the show because I just heard it last week. He should go to the punishment room.

But there's a lot of bingos that were hit. I think the mic was— That's what you're going to do.

I'm sorry, Sean, I won't say it hurt me more than it hurt you. That's the old parental line.

Where is this punishment room thing from?

Oh, I don't— oh, oh, where, where is it actually from?

The audio?

The, uh, uh, The Office, correct? Yeah, The Office. It's a riot.

Can I say something that you may perceive as an insult? I don't mean it to be. You know what The Office is?

Okay, so A, you are 100% right. I do not perceive it as an insult.

B, no, I said you would. You might perceive it.

No, I said I won't.

I know. Then I'm not.

Oh, you're right. I'm sorry. You were. You were right in being worried.

Okay.

Yeah, that's what I meant. I do not at all. Truth is truth. I don't know it because I've watched The Office. I just know it because I was curious. I know, I know vaguely what my son is a big fan of The Office. My oldest son. This woman comes over to me, she said, Dennis, I want you to know what I told my daughter when she went to college. And that is, I prefer you come home pregnant than as a leftist. So I am going to do an hour of radio on that subject.

Wow.

Because I wonder how people will react. So I'm— I have no doubt that the left will pick up on it and use that as another example of how awful I am, that I support that woman's statement. But by the way, I wouldn't, because they, they never think in terms of is it valid, is it true, what I think the same way, just Can I score a point against the conservative?

And does it sound bad?

Yeah, that's very good. Does it sound bad? But they would not say, I'd rather my daughter come home pregnant than a Trump supporter.

Yes, exactly. That's what I was going to say.

Yes. I mean, who are they fooling?

They would say, I'd rather my daughter come home leftist than pregnant. So why aren't we allowed to say we'd rather our daughter come home pregnant than leftist?

Right. Yes. Well, no, no, no. Well, of course they'd rather their daughter come home leftist than pregnant. That, that, that's not here or there.

Right. But no, no, no.

They'd rather their daughter come home pregnant than a MAGA supporter. That's my point. They have the exact same mirror image, right?

Yeah. We're saying, we're saying the same thing.

Okay, fine. Yeah. So it's— values are everything. That was my argument for adoption. I'm not interested in, in, in, well, what's the word, passing on my seed. I'm interested in passing on my values. I, you know, I'm in a rare position. Most people, of course, don't have an adopted child to begin with, but I'm in an even rarer group among those who have adopted children in that I have a biological one as well. And so I often say to people, do you think I look at my blood son and go, wow, that's my blood?

Well, as you say, blood schmud.

Blood schmud. It's all values. Your, your child, in effect While they have remained legally and bio— and/or biologically your child, if they reject your values, you have lost your child. I mean, it's a very, very sad thing for me to say because so many good people have that issue with their child. But they know what I say is true, and that's why they're in such pain. Values are everything. That's been my life. That's, that's been— that's what's animated me.

And at times it's lonely.

Yeah, well, I have not felt that. I have No, I take it back. I think I told you privately, I haven't said this on the air. One of the only times in my life I felt alone was one night when I was at Columbia University and I was across the street at a little restaurant. And I looked around and I realized I don't share a value with one person in this restaurant. And it really— I felt, wow, that— that I didn't so much feel lonely because I had friends, but alone, yes.

You can feel alone in a crowded—

oh, that's something. That's when you feel most alone. That's exactly right. Is that a happy note to end?

Well, it's a realistic note.

Yeah.

So Dennis, you have an Instagram.

I certainly do.

Good. And it's @thedennisprager because you are the Dennis Prager and I am not worthy of being a the yet. Also, my name was available on Instagram. That's why they put the in front of Dennis Prager because Dennis Prager was taken. Maybe, maybe it was one of the ones I emailed 3 years ago and got no response to. Well, I got one response from a Dennis Prager in all caps. I am not Dennis, the Dennis Prager you're looking for.

Yeah, I always forget that. That poor guy.

That poor guy. Imagine being named Ben Shapiro.

Yes.

Or Jordan or Candace Owens. Oh my gosh. Wow. You can reach me at julie@julie-hartman.com. I love hearing from you. And if only you knew how painful it is that I can't respond to every single note, but I read them and appreciate them so much. And you can also follow me @JulieRHardman on Instagram and Twitter. Dennis and Julie is every Monday on this channel, 1 o'clock Pacific, 4 o'clock Eastern. Thanks for being with us.

Thank you.

And shalom.

Here's something most people don't know. When Warren Buffett was just 13 years old, he didn't put his money into a savings account. While other kids were earning next to nothing at local banks, Buffett put $114 into a little-known investment. Today, that $114 would be worth over $15 million. And it wasn't a risky trade. It wasn't even insider knowledge. It was an account that's been around since 1888. And over the last 25 years, it's averaged 29% a year. That's what happens when your money is allowed to compound. Compare that to today's savings accounts paying less than half a percent while inflation quietly eats away at your buying power. Buffett understood early: banks are great businesses, just not for savers. If you'd like to see what some investors call the 29% account, go now to secretaccount.com. 29.com. That's Secret Account, the numbers, 29.com. SecretAccount29.com.