Dennis & Julie: Err is Human

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Hey everybody, Dennis and Julie. Dennis Prager, Julie Hartman. I treasure the Dennis and Julie podcast.

So much fun.

Oh, that's a given. But I mean, I treasure it. I meant that literally. It's a treasure in my life.

Well, I know I've told you this off the air, but when I'm 40 or 50, to be able to look back and have these and literally watch myself, like 2 episodes ago when we had that talk about religion, my mind was just blown on air. And for me to be able to go back and watch myself learning in real time, I think will be the ultimate treasure. And of course, it's a treasure now.

But you notice that there was not a word about me.

Oh, come on. Oh, yes. It was just— it was when I'm 40 or 50, it's going to be good to go back and just watch myself. Not you at all.

I was—

what a needy man he is.

I would— yes, exactly correct. So I want to ask you, there's nothing like this, and it's not a compliment, it's just a statement of fact. There are many wonderful podcasts. I never claim that my radio show is better than everybody else's, or I don't, I don't think that way. I, I want to make a contribution, but if something is unique, it is unique. The openness and honesty and exploration of life Not to mention the age difference, which one would think on paper is significant and turns out to be essentially insignificant to both of us. Which, and it's really beautiful. It's a human show. That's the best way to put it. So anyway, I wanted to ask you, you finally have begun your own show. You don't, you're not calling it a podcast, is that correct?

I'm calling it a show because it's, uh, live on YouTube, and then it also is on the same Salem News Channel, and then it's in podcast form. So it's a podcast or a show or—

Right.

A streaming show.

So how long do you devote to each?

I devote about 45 minutes. And just like Dennis and Julie started off in the 30-minute to 45-minute range, I'm hoping that it will grow. But also, if I can be concise with the news and my commentary, I don't want to keep people longer than they have to. It's Tuesday through Friday. So Dennis and Julie's on Mondays, and then the remaining days of the week I'm doing Timeless.

So anything surprised you?

Yes, the amount of work has surprised me. I thought that it would be comparable to guest hosting for you, because when I guess those for you, it's 3 hours. But what I realized is that when I guess those for you, it's 3 hours, but then I'm done for the week. You know, the next time I guest host for you will be maybe 2 or 3 weeks later. With this, it's every single day. And also, when I guest host for you, even though it's 3 hours, having the commercial break really helps. Sure. Because it, it allows—

it's a breather.

It's a breather, and it allows for a natural transition.

Whereas when you're just sitting, as I am, on, on the set and no callers—

well, actually, yes, we will start introducing callers. We've only had 3 shows, so we decided—

that's interesting.

But yeah, you have a call-in number. Oh yeah, 'cause it's live.

You will, you will.

It's live. Yes.

Oh, that's awesome. And I'll call in.

That would be fun. You don't need to call in.

Dennis from LA.

You can just walk 15 feet.

No, no, no. I'll call in.

Sit down.

I'll surprise you one day.

But we, so I just sit in front of the camera and there's no commercial break and I'm just talking for 45 minutes straight. And that's a lot harder than, at least for me, than 3 hours with commercial breaks because, well, and the lack of natural transition.

Well, the daily, the daily issue. Yes. Daily. So I have referred to my talk show, which is now 40 years, as a jealous mistress. It—

I've never heard this.

Yes, that's how I think of it. It's— and why do I refer to it that way? It's very demanding, like a mistress might be, and it's jealous of all your other time. And obviously we're given vacation time, but the fact is pretty much I have to be on every day of the year, every weekday of the year. In, in a certain sense, it's the ideal job. It's 3 hours and my day is theoretically over, though that's a joke, but, but it's theoretically over. And that's, that's a joy. And since I usually broadcast Pacific time, it's over by noon. To have— I, I am spoiled. I mean, the thought that I have the rest of the day to do whatever I want is, is a joy that I, I never cease to be appreciative of. But every day it's, it's demanding.

Yes. I mean, I come in, I film this, and then I go home and literally the rest of the day and the entire next morning is, is 100% devoted towards the next show.

You feel— you will love this. You know what I say when young people have asked me, oh, I'd like to be a talk show host. How do I know if I could do it? You know my answer, right?

No, I don't.

Oh, you'll love this. I've been saying this for decades. I say, listen, there's a very good way to test whether you can do it. I want you to sit alone in a room, stare at a wall, and be interesting for 3 hours.

It's hard.

And what— and half the time they go, maybe it's not my profession.

And another thing that I've chosen to do on my show Timeless is I don't have a desk and I just, it's like you with your fireside chats. I just sit in the chair and look directly at the camera because it was really important to me to have a direct line with my viewer. And I want my viewer to feel like they're sitting across from me and just having a conversation with me. I think I underestimated how extraordinarily hard that is because when you, you know, when you have a desk here, first of all, you as a host feel a little bit protected with a desk in front of you. And also you can put a computer right in front of your face. So if you forget a stat, you can just look down. But I have to do this from memory and it's tough.

Well, that's my fireside chat to a certain extent. But yours is longer. Mine is a half hour and half of it is questions. So, but I, of course I know the challenge you made for yourself. You could have had a desk.

Well, exactly. I did make it for myself because A, again, I, I care about the way that the viewer perceives the show, but also I really wanted to make myself good. I wanted to create this challenge for myself because I know that if I do a show like this for a year without a desk, over time in my career, I really won't need one anymore. I wanna become fluid without needing notes in front of me. So I kind of created that for myself.

The reason you can do that and I can't, interestingly— I mean, I do it on my fireside chat, but it's still different. It's 15 minutes just myself and the viewer, and the other 15 is taking questions. But you is 45, you and the viewer, and it's daily. Mine is once a week, my fireside chat. But I don't have your memory. I simply have to make reference to what is on the computer. And I fully acknowledge it. For statistics, I'll tell you, I blew something on the radio which was very embarrassing to me.

Really?

Yes. Because of my— people need to understand everybody has challenges. So in my field of thinking, speaking, I am— I've always been challenged on the memory issue with names.

You have?

Yes. If you give me 8 arguments against the minimum wage, I can recite them back. But if you tell me a name that I will have said 100 times, I will still mangle it. So I mangled the name of Randy Weingarten, is an awful human being who has ruined innumerable children's lives, in my opinion. Mike Pompeo, the former Secretary of State, said she was the most vicious woman in America recently. And for that alone, I came to deeply respect Mike Pompeo. He identified a villain. She's with the American Federation of Teachers, I believe it is. And I, instead, I gave a different name that sounds like hers of a tremendously wonderful woman.

Oh no, it's okay, it's okay.

I'm not going to say the name because I— well, I guess should I say the name or not? Yeah, Roberta Weintraub, who—

same initials.

Yeah, well, it sounds like Randy Weingarten in a certain sense.

It does.

I know it's understandable, but it's still awful because Roberta Weintraub is the opposite of Randy Weingarten, and she was the reason I got onto radio. She gave my name to KABC, my first radio station. She brought me to them, and I have such permanent love and affection and respect for her. She— anyway, it doesn't matter. I'm just saying, Nate— oh, so you'll love this. So I first realized how I mangle names when I was at graduate school. I was dating a girl. Her last—

forget her name.

Oh, worse. It's worse. No, her last name was Last. Okay, that's a last name. And we had been dating for months, and we went— Dennis, we went to a party, and I said this— I won't say her first name— this is so-and-so First.

Did you think it— did you really think it was first?

Yes.

For how many months?

No, no, no, just then at the party.

Oh, just then.

Yes. But now, now, interestingly, she was very annoyed. She was hurt, and I don't think she should have been hurt, but it doesn't matter. It just shows you— by the way, I have to tell you, I would be a little hurt. Oh, okay.

I'm very—

well, I'm happy you told me that.

I would, I would think, because you don't get hurt easily. No, I— no. I would quit this job if I got hurt.

No, I'm kidding. You would?

The jokes that we make are you gotta, you know—

No, no, no, but oh no, no, you would quit the job. I thought because of the public's reaction to you, you'll get your fair share of—

Oh, I mean, I already have.

You already have. Yes, exactly. So, uh, by the way, I would be a bit offended. Okay, no, no, I'm very happy to hear hurt. Okay, I'm happy to hear because it, it, it, it, it means that I shouldn't ever think she overreacted.

I don't think she did.

Okay, with respect to you anyway, my point was not about her. My point was about me and names. My brother has the same exact thing. It shows you it's— there's no question it's genetic. As he points out, he says Dennis— so he's a very prominent physician, my brother. And I will have seen a patient for years and I insist that my secretary give me the person's name.

Oh my gosh.

I totally get it.

As you said, everyone has their—

that's their battles. That is exactly right.

Well, when I guest hosted for you a few weeks ago, I was mortified because I was talking about comfort women. I think I told you this.

Oh, I don't remember. The Korean— the horrible use of women by the Japanese.

And I said that they were Japanese women and not Korean women. And I knew that they were Korean women.

Of course you did, because who would've been using them?

Right, exactly. So I just got confused and I had all of these people writing into me and it was during my history hour. Every time I guest host for you or for another host, I do history hour.

When you do this work, you're exposed.

You're going to mess up. Yes.

Not only will you mess, but you're exposed. I mean, there's just no way around it.

And another thing. So last week when I was doing a Timeless episode, I was talking about how many—

By the way, Timeless episode means Timeless with Julie Hartman.

Yes.

So that's, and how do people find it?

People can watch it on YouTube as they can watch this show on YouTube, or they can also go on Spotify or Apple and watch it on podcast form. Or if you wanna go to the Salem News Channel too, which is an app, you can go there too. But I think the fastest route is YouTube. But anyway, last week when I was hosting Timeless, I was, well, Gosh, what was I about to say? What were we talking about? Forgetting. Oh, um, oh yes. Well, last week when I was, uh, hosting Timeless, I was talking about how when I, uh, a year ago at Harvard went to the senior thesis meeting, so many people were talking about, uh, writing a thesis and their topics were absurd. Their topics were like, I'm going to write about the intersectionality of Guatemalan basket weavers in 1804. And when I was describing these senior thesis writers, I said everyone had these crazy niche topics. The point was I was trying, I was trying to show how insane, you know, the theses are. But I, but I was watching the episode back and I realized that I said everyone had these insane niche topics, and that's not true. Not everyone has.

Well, all right, everyone is not meant as a scientific statement of mathematical fact.

Right. But still, you know how hard I am on myself.

Everyone likes ice cream. We understand some people don't.

Right. But still, you know, in this line of work, people will get you on stuff like that.

Oh, yes. No, you have to be very careful. And so I got to improve on that. Yes. So I would today say virtually everyone or nearly everyone. Yes.

I try to amend my language to say most. Or the majority. But it's hard, it's hard when you're live and you're trying to keep track of it because we don't do that in private speech.

But it's just the way it is. Okay, so I, I just want to salute you because it's, it's a gutsy thing to, to take on a solo, uh, podcast like that. You don't have a co-host there. I mean, relatively speaking, even though this is twice as long, this is easier because it is easier for me. This is easier for me than my radio show. I fully acknowledge it.

I want people—

I have you.

I know. I sort of view this as vacation, like work vacation. When Dennis and Julie rolls around, I'm like, okay, I can relent a little bit.

That's right.

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Well, I, I had that I, I never co-hosted, but on occasion I would appear, for example, with Larry Elder. And I just remember thinking, all of my memory of names and, and numbers is irrelevant. Oh, he remembers everything.

Well, yes, especially with Larry.

I'm with the living Google. So it was so such a joy to be, you know, collaborating with Larry.

You say I'm a human recording device. He is a human recording device. Astonishing to hear him But you know, another thing I noticed with doing Timeless is that, so I'll first say that, that my goal as a host, I, I have two principal goals. The first one is to provide really fact-rich news stories to people. Like I wanna put a lot of facts in people's arsenals so they can walk around feeling more informed. But another thing I wanna do, and this is why I named the show Timeless, is I wanna turn to those more eternal unchanging truths about life that are nonpolitical. And it's so funny because I know that you, like me, prefer to talk about the timeless and enduring things. And it's just so funny because when I'm filming Timeless, I can't wait for the news to be done. Like, I can't wait to get to the part of my show where I'm talking about things.

That was the hardest challenge. Ultimate issues in my radio career. My first years I just said, call in on anything. And I loved it. I loved it. We would go from the most personal issue to some political issue to some religious issue, some philosophical issue, American issue, international issue. It was great. And then when I got a national show, they said, look, it doesn't work quite that way. People expect to hear your take on what's happening. So I relented, of course, a lot, but not fully, because I still have an Ultimate Issues Hour, a Male-Female Hour, Happiness Hour, and Anything Goes Hour. That's 4 hours out of 15, and I don't devote every other hour just to news. But it is driven by what is happening, and I totally understand that people want, in my case, Dennis Prager's take on X, Y, or Z.

And the news is really interesting.

I mean, oh, oh, it's relentless.

I, as a host, I'm learning so much by doing this about the world.

Isn't it the truth?

Oh, oh, yes.

And I feel, I feel like the ultimate soap opera. That's how I think of it. The ongoing drama.

And, you know, it really shows how relentless our job is because last week I was talking about an impending railroad strike and literally 5 minutes before I went on air, the Senate voted to strike down a specific measure. 52 to 48. And so again, 5 minutes before I go on air, I have to learn that fact. So you just— you constantly have to be clued in, checking your phone, checking your email. So it's, it's kind of a new realm of life for people writing in.

Are they becoming aware of Timeless?

Yes.

Brand new. I don't expect it.

Yes. Look, it's gonna—

I mean, you have to be patient.

I have to be patient.

That's right. But we're gonna do it. We're looking— Did you go on Ben Shapiro yet?

I'm going on him tomorrow.

Well, that's great. I mean, that's a huge built-in audience. I mean, I do a lot with Daily Wire, and I have great affection and respect for them.

I'm really excited to talk to him.

Well, you should be. I mean, that's a big deal.

I know, and he's one of the people who really influenced me and obviously continues to influence me. For good reason.

You know, people should know How much we root for each other. Oh, people, there is zero competition, let's say, between Daily Wire and PragerU. Zero. I am thrilled for their success. They are thrilled for our success. They, they use me for some of their biggest events, and, and PragerU is completely happy about that and vice versa. You know, you may— you probably don't know the guy who runs Daily Wire is not Ben, just as I don't run PragerU. I am obviously important, play important role there.

Marissa runs it well.

And Alan. Marissa and Alan. Yes. So the guy who runs it is Jeremy Boreing, who is— I met him years ago and I knew him in the capacity of being— I believe at the time he was a a pastor. He's a committed—

really?

Yes, exactly.

Oh wow. But he didn't know he was a pastor.

Yes, he— so we would always talk theology, and I knew I am with a deep and good man. That's all I thought about Jeremy Boring. I still think, of course, he is— he's deep and, and, and good. But I didn't know the man's a bloody genius. I mean, what he, he has built Oh, The Daily Wire. It has, you know that it now has a million paid subscribers.

I'm one of them. Yep.

Me too.

Well, I remember, and I know I've said this on this program before, but it just, it blew me away when I worked for you two summers ago. It was right when Candace Owens announced that she was leaving PragerU and going to The Daily Wire. And so I asked you, how do you feel about that? And you just like, you were like, it's great.

It's great.

You, it was like such a nonchalant, like, yes, reaction. And I just, I couldn't believe it.

'Cause— Of course, I know.

I've never been in an environment—

We're all in it for the ideal.

We're all rowing in the same boat. Oh, exactly, yes. And so I have a story to tell that I have never, I don't think I've ever told publicly, but I was actually going to save it for when and if I speak at a PragerU gala or conference. But I wanna tell it now because it's relevant to this conversation. So as many of you know, back in 2020, I had a really difficult 2 weeks of my life after I first went on your—

I tell that story all the time.

Yes. After I went on Dennis Prager's radio show for the first time, it went online. All these people at my school canceled me. I convinced myself that I was never going to get a job, never gonna get married. I thought I had, you know, it was like, I felt like honestly, like I had committed a crime. It was that bad. So for 2 weeks I was just inconsolable. but I had agreed to do a PragerU Stories of Us at the beginning of those two weeks. So I wasn't totally in the depression, but I was about like halfway through the depression. But nevertheless, I still went to PragerU. I had agreed to this commitment to film a Stories of Us. And so I went, by the way, I'm so sorry, there is a huge spider crawling behind you.

I don't care.

No, you gotta smush it. I'm terri—

Oh, that's sad. I never kill spiders. It's a policy.

No, no, it's, it's a daddy long— I'm sorry, I'm terrified of spiders. You got to kill this.

That guy's bothering you?

Yeah, I'm sorry, you got to whack it.

All right, wait, and I won't whack it. I'll get rid of it, but I won't— no, no, I'll, I'll put him in a glass.

Oh my God, yes, you guys, I, I am really scared of spiders. It's going to distract me the whole time. I'm sorry, we can—

I will, I will get rid of it. Okay. All right, young man. All right, I'm gonna bring it to you, Sean. Oh God, we'll take a quick break.

Kill it.

I'm not killing. Okay, all right, let's go.

What do you— what are you— oh, okay, I thought you were gonna pick it up.

No, no, I'm gonna— now give me a piece of paper.

We don't have—

oh, okay, yes, I'll slide a piece of paper in. Okay, and then all will be good.

Okay, how do you know it's in there?

The laws of physics dictate.

Well, where are you gonna put it?

We're giving it to Sean.

What is he gonna do with it?

That's a great question. I don't know.

This is a very real moment on the Dennis and— wait, oh God, you should see what's going on. Sean took it. Oh, now Dennis can't get back in. Oh, okay, you can get back in.

He just wants to beat it over. Wait, he wants this all up.

Wait, Sean, what did you do with it?

That stays in. He really wants it in.

That's really— what did he do with the spider?

What? You gave it to our spider specialist? Fine.

Okay, wait, I'm—

wait, so just for the record, see, the reason you have to appreciate spiders, because they take care of the insects, they get rid of them, the, the really obnoxious ones like mosquitoes.

Dennis, I'm— I can't deal with spiders.

It is, it is totally understandable. A lot of people— what is it called?

Arachnophobia.

Arachnophobia. Yeah, yeah.

Usually I'm professional and I let stuff like that go.

I have one phobia the entire time. I have leftophobia. That's my one phobia.

Well said.

People who want to ruin the world, I fear them. I fight them, but they're, they're scary. Anyway, okay, so it was a real Stop. What happened?

What happened?

Is it still there?

Is there another spider?

I don't know. We'll find out. Well, he's not there. I got rid of him. Okay, right.

Are we keeping in the spider footage?

It's an— by the way, I don't want to get into it, but it is an interesting thing, phobias. Listen, it's not— half the world is probably scared of spiders. I'll tell you where I feel bad. I mean, there are people, for example, who are, are afraid of flying, so they, they don't get to see their children, they don't get to see their friends, they don't get to see the world. I mean That is a, uh, a very sad phobia. There are people who were afraid— I forgot the name of the phobia— where they're afraid to leave their house. Are you familiar with that?

Oh yes, yes. I took, um, a psychology class with Steven Pinker when I was a freshman, and he played a video, uh, with people in it who have that phobia, and it stuck with me. It must be so crippling.

Oh, entirely. By the way, do you remember if it was a man or a woman, the interviewee?

I think it was a woman.

I have not encountered men who have that. Yeah, I'm not saying that none do.

It's interesting.

Every time I have read about it, it has been a female.

Well, I just want to tell the viewers that my spider phobia— maybe I shouldn't share this because it's a little graphic, but I one time saw this video. This is where it comes from, where a spider like laid eggs inside someone's skin. And the spiders hatched. Like, there was a cut in the—

wow.

And again, I don't know if it was real or maybe technically altered, but I think I saw that maybe 5 years ago, and I have had nightmares at least once a week since then that a spider is going to hatch eggs in my skin.

So that's where it comes from. When I was a, a kid, I would say about 12, I told my older brother, and I think it's common for younger brothers to idolize their older brother, and I certainly did. And so he was 18, which to me was like old.

Yeah.

And I told him I was really scared of monster films. So he said, there's only one thing you, you can do to overcome that. Keep watching them until you're not scared, and then start laughing at the makeup and, and the whole silliness of these guys who were monsters. And it worked. And so anything I got scared of, I sort of adopted that attitude of immersing myself. So I wonder, by the way, I don't know if that's effective for every phobia, but it would be interesting if you You just saw my— I know the thought of you watching constant spider films, I guess, uh, I guess may not work. Just—

I know what you're saying though, because again, just—

well, what if the person who fears flying— do you know anyone who fears flying?

Weirdly enough, I adopted a little bit of a fear of flying when I went to college. I've— yes, I've flown my whole life. You know, my older sister Gina, who has severe autism, when I was 8 years old, she was institutionalized in Massachusetts So we every month would fly back and forth from Los Angeles and Massachusetts. So I was, I was very used to flying when I was young. But when I went to college, I started flying alone. And whenever there would be turbulence, I was convinced that the engine gave out. And you know what? I've, I've given this a lot of thought because it perplexed me. And I think it's because when you fly with your parents, even though it's not rational, you subconsciously have this idea that if your parents are with you, they vetted the situation. Like they vetted the pilot or they vetted the plane. Like they would never put you in a situation where you would be in danger. But then if you're flying alone, you don't have that.

Well, I'm not there to rescue you.

They're not there to rescue you.

That's also a factor, right?

So anyway, I was telling a story about PragerU, right? Sorry for the little interruption. Although I shouldn't apologize, the spider should apologize. Totally. Anyway, so I went through those horrible 2 weeks. Somewhere in those 2 weeks, I Phil, it must have been pretty quickly because I think PragerU contacted me immediately after I went on your show to do a Stories of Us and I agreed immediately. So anyway, I went and I filmed this Stories of Us, which is a PragerU series where people talk about their journey to conservatism or the moments when they realized that they had been red-pilled. And so I went to PragerU headquarters, I filmed this video, And I talked about the influence that you had on me. I talked about the Black Lives Matter riots and what that did. And it was so cool to be at PragerU. I mean, PragerU is a compound. It is. And everyone was so nice. I mean, it was just such an incredible experience. But I filmed it and I went home and I was still feeling really kind of on shaky ground. I didn't know if I felt comfortable enough to go public with my conservatism. So about 5 or 6 days later, I called Dana, who's one of the people at PragerU who's in charge of Stories of Us. And I said, I'm so sorry about this. I don't know if this is possible, but can you just pull the video? I don't want it to air. I'm not comfortable going public yet. I just, I'm depressed. I feel like my life is ruined. And I had convinced myself, you know what, Julie, They're gonna release the video because you made a commitment. They hired a makeup artist to come do my makeup. They had, you know, you know what it's like to film a PragerU video. They have 15 people there, you know, camera people. And it took like 2 or 3 hours to film. And, and I thought, well, they're gonna say tough bleep, Julie, you know, you agreed to do something. And they said to me, no problem. We want you to be comfortable. "We don't wanna ruin your life. If you want it pulled, we will pull it. No buts, no questions asked." And I just—

I'm so proud.

You should be so proud. I was blown away. And you know what? Even though they didn't do it strategically, they did it because they're just nice, decent people. It actually, that helped me get out of my fear because I realized, wow, these are, These are really good people. I shouldn't be ashamed that I, uh, associated myself with them. And you, the founder—

on the good people issue, I, I, I was very, very affected by the goodness of people I was raised, not by my parents, but in the milieu I was raised. To fear, or yeah, to fear. I've, I've mentioned on a number of occasions I started collecting books as a junior in high school. The first time I counted how many books I had, I remembered the number: 32. I now have about 8,000, and I haven't bought because in a while, because I read a lot on Kindle and people send them to you, and yes. But, but I still buy. But in any event, I had 32 books. They filled up one shelf in a little bookshelf in my, in my parent— in my bedroom in my parents' home. One of them was Danger on the Right. If you look that up, you will see that, yes, it was a very popular book. And it was, it was a given. It wasn't even conscious, this infiltration of a young mind in New York City when I grew up, just know that all— there's no— there was no book Danger on the Left, just Danger on the Right. So when I started meeting conservatives in, I would say, my late 20s— truly it took that long— and then certainly in my 30s, and Christians I grew up an Orthodox Jew in a sort of cocoon, so I very rarely met a Christian. And then I really met them a lot, and I thought, I really like these people. They're really nice. They're really good. There was a term you used. I trust myself on my goodness meter.

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Yeah, I want to add, my wife and I so love Epic Times. We not only use our own personal money to subscribe, we send them money. I'm not kidding. Uh, there's stuff on Epic Times you will not find anywhere else. Oh, you know too, you love it. It's, it's, it's great.

I was published in the Epic Times. I wrote an energy article a few weeks ago, and they are just the most professional and kind people. They are. And in addition to news, they have a life and tradition section of their newspaper, which I benefit hugely from.

So folks, the— these are important and good guys. So what is it again? Epic Times? It's watchepictimes.com/dennisandjulie.com. Oh, dot com slash? Yes. Really? It isn't the slash Dennis and Julie dot com? No. It's dot coms? Really? Yes. Okay. I never saw that where dot com and then a slash. Maybe. Yeah, that's right. I did see that. Okay. I take that back. I want to tell you something about my goodness meter you'll find interesting. I don't know if I told you this, but you'll know if I told you this. Yes, I will. So my dear friend from high school, Joseph, we, we, we've, we've always loved each other. I mean, it's a truly a tremendous bond to this day. So we met at 15, at the age of 15. Anyway, our first 15, 20 years, we were both single. And did so much together. And after we would meet somebody, Joseph's immediate reaction, if he had one— didn't always have one— was about the person's intelligence. And I remember over time thinking, my only reaction is to assess their goodness. Now Joseph is an extremely good person, so it's no comment on Joseph. It's a comment on the nature that we have. I, I have always believed brains are overrated, and I was blessed with a good brain, so, so I, I hope I have credibility in saying that. It's not like, um, this is sour grapes. Well, I'm a dummy and brains aren't that important. But they're not. Brains are important if you want to send a rocket to Mars. Then a brain— clearly you need a great brain, at least in physics or in math or whatever science is involved. But as a general statement, the thing, the only thing that ever meant anything to me in meeting people to this day is their goodness. And that's why I'm reacting to your reaction. I think that's true for you. Oh yes, that's a very big deal, Julie. It's another— by the way, I have the chills and I, I'm debating whether to say it because it's so about us and I'm a little self-conscious, but it doesn't matter. The whole thing of, of our dialogues to be real The amount that I see in common between us is eerie, and, and that is one of them. Most people react to charm, intelligence, looks. And by the way, I don't, I don't claim that they don't move me, and certainly a woman's looks moves me. I'm a male, I, I fully acknowledge that, but Number one. So I'll give you an example. The— as I told you, in Denmark, Sue and I met this 30-year-old woman who's coming to visit, who's going to live in our house for a week. She's never been to America. I can't wait for the two of you to meet. I can't tell— I'm telling you, that's as exciting to me. I'm thrilled to meet her. Oh, you will, because I picked up in a nanosecond how good she is. And, and, and I, I totally believe it. And we didn't spend tons of time together.

And by the way, this just— Dennis met her on a trip. It's not like you knew this and now she's coming to your house for a week. Oh, to live. Dennis Prager 101.

Well, Dennis Prager does that. Oh, you're right. Well, that's how much I trust my instinct. Well, you know the German boy? Oh, that's the best story. So, uh, a few years ago There's this 20, I don't know, maybe 22, 23-year-old German kid. He came to be an au pair in my, in my neighborhood. So my stepson met him and they started to, to, you know, do fun things together. So he came to our house and I fell in love with the guy. And I said to Sue, let's, let's, let's tell him to leave the au pair job and live with us. Within an hour I invited, well Sue gets half the credit. I mean, but it was my instinct and I said, how about living with us? He said, you serious? You just met me. I said, it doesn't matter and it turned, he stayed 6 months and we adore this guy. So I have very great faith in my good meter.

I feel like a broken record saying me too, but I, I so resonate with what you're saying. Exactly. And it's what we talked about a few episodes ago. When you find those people, you gotta grab 'em, you know?

Yes. You have to.

And it doesn't matter if it's a 30-year-old Danish girl, or in my case, a 74-year-old, you know, Jewish talk show host. It doesn't matter who they are. What age, what gender, what race, you gotta grab 'em.

That's right. That, that, okay.

Yes. And you do. Yes. And I, I had this good meter too from the time that I was young and I was always just disgusted by people who I felt were not good. It didn't matter how, as you say, how much charm they had, how wealthy they were, how, you know, uh, athletic they were. It didn't matter to me. In fact, in college I had a, there was a girl who I became quite close to, and she's beautiful and she's very smart and she's a good person. And she and I became good friends, but she was dating this guy who was like, just the mother of all, uh, I'm struggling not to say a curse word. See, Dennis and Julie fans, I'm trying, I'm trying to avoid curse words, but trust me, with this guy, it is warranted. He is the worst person I've ever known in my life. And that, that's saying something. And just a, just a rotten person. And it was so perplexing to me because I was like, how can this girl be friends? Like, how do you not see it? And it was because he was good looking. He was wealthy. He was very, very charming, uh, suave, confident. And it, even though this girl was a good person, at least in my interactions with her or my observed interactions, uh, that, that she had with other people, I just, I was like, what? There must be something a little bit defunct inside you in order to be attracted to this guy who is again, the mother of all blankety blanks. So it, it actually really impacted my friendship with her because I, I just, I couldn't get past that. And I'm not, again, I'm not trying to sound like Mother Teresa.

So let me give you your best guess. No, no, it's just true. I couldn't get past it. Well, okay, so I have two big reactions. One is about the star issue, and the other is about we all have a nature. So I'll start with the star issue.

What do you mean by this?

You'll, you'll know in a moment. I know people well who have really good values and are personally just of impeccable character, but they have a weakness. We all have weaknesses. This is, this is one of theirs. This is one of the rare times where I would like to use a curse word myself because it always comes with it. Star-effers. Have you ever heard the term? Of course.

Growing up in Los Angeles, okay, I've heard the term and seen it.

This is— so here is Prager rule of life number 89326: avoid stars. Period. Period. End of issue. Just avoid them. And I did. And I, I don't— I take no credit for this because it's built into me. I have never had a desire to befriend a star. That a person is a star, political or athletic or Hollywood, is of little interest to me as the color of their shoes. And that's a gift from God. I don't— I now, I became conscious of it later and how valuable that attitude was. But, uh, it was built into me, so I've never had to fight the ache to be— to befriend a star. But I know people, some of whom are very well known themselves, who have this deep attraction to stars, and every single individual I know who has that has been burned. There is no exception.

Well, Candace Owens is learning that now, and I don't, I don't really view Candace as a star effort.

No, she isn't.

She's not. But I just, I want to make that clear.

But she really isn't.

She's, she's not at all. She has a great character. I mean, I don't know her, but you can tell.

No, she's a special human being. She's courageous in the extreme, and she got really burned.

She did. No, I, I, that was not said as a, uh, no, a criticism.

A criticism. No, no, it's just, it's just, it's just a very sad Fact, that's correct. And I could give another example, but I won't because it's just not— it's not necessary in this case. But in this case, it's a male that I'm thinking of. So that's one. Because in part, because all I care about is your goodness, your stardom is of no consequence to me. Second, Really? All right, so I'll give you my second observation on this. What did John say? Let's do Lear Capital first.

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So The other point I want to make, I can't believe, and I'm sure I've said this to you, uh, even here, not just off camera, what has now preoccupied me in the last couple of years. I've always been preoccupied with human nature and how every human has to battle human nature. It comes with its own issues, right? We're not basically good, we're not basically evil, but we have to battle ourselves. Self-control is everything. Okay, but I, I have come to realize that there's a second part to human nature. We all have an individual nature, and it's a very problematic issue. So I'm raising this in the, in in connection with. It was built into me to just look for goodness. I take no credit. This whole issue of taking credit and taking blame has consumed me in just the last couple of years. I think I said this to you. When I read about men who molest prepubescent children, I'm thinking most among the most extreme evils. So I don't have to battle that. I mean, I don't get credit, right? I get credit I didn't cheat on tests in high school. I think I get credit for that. It was a willful decision. Uh, of course, part of it was I didn't give a damn about grades, which I thank God for. But nevertheless, okay, there are things I'll take credit for. But we're dealt a nature in addition to the universal of human nature. We're dealt a nature, and it makes you wonder about the eternal question: how much free will is there?

For example, from the time I was young, I felt so grateful that I was given that nature of gravitating towards good people. Like, I knew that. Oh yeah. And I remember thinking, God, am I lucky because I've been given this gift. And again, this may sound self-congratulatory. I don't mean it that way. It's clear. I truly mean, wow, I feel so lucky. I can see in others if they are good faster and clearer than my friends can. Right. I can tell within 5 minutes of meeting someone. I would even, I would even say within 2 or 3 minutes of meeting someone if they're good or not. I know.

I'm with you. No, no, I'm with you. Well, yes, yes, that's the point.

But yes, it's so— it's, it's subtle things.

So by the way, aside from everything else, it— so I'm curious, have you ever been hurt? I don't mean in romance, that's a different world. But have you ever been hurt by a misjudgment of a person?

Honestly, no. Me neither. No.

And I'm a hell of a lot older, and I, I have not been. I, I didn't— I haven't misjudged anyone that I can remember.

I've had people disappoint me, but I always knew that they were going to do so, and I expected it.

Well, it's funny that it raises the question: if you expected, how could you be disappointed? Well, maybe God— maybe— why is God—

well, I'm going to bring up a Dennis Prager line. You know that your parents are going to die, and when it happens you're—

You're still disappointed.

Well, yeah, you're sad. Uh-huh. You can still be disappointed at something else. Okay, that's fair. But I was able to figure that out really quickly. I wanna say something that relates to what you said a few minutes ago, that you recognize the goodness in the people that you grew up to kind of fear, or what was the word you used? You were saying—

Oh yes, that's exactly what I used. Yes, I was raised to fear them. Human recorder. Yes.

So this is a little different because I didn't fear this person at all. But, uh, there is a woman, just a remarkable woman who you met actually. She, uh, if you remember, she came, I brought her to the show, uh, 2 years ago when I, uh, worked for you. And I've known her since I was 2 months old and she's been a caretaker for my sister Gina, who has severe autism. Her name is Diane. She is, the best person, the most intrinsically good person I've ever known in my life. She's a deeply Christian, conservative woman, has such integrity. For years, she has cared for my sister with fidelity and integrity. She's just, she's remarkable. So it's the opposite of fearing her. We love her so much and she's become like a family member to us. But growing up, you know, I went to very liberal schools, as you know. I didn't— I wasn't very religious. And she, as I mentioned, is a deeply Christian conservative woman. And sometimes growing up, we would have— arguments is the wrong word, but disagreements about things. Who's we? Diane and me. We would— and she was— she would always talk to me about religion growing up. And I really enjoyed it. We didn't talk about it often. But when we did, I really appreciated when her points of view. But as far as political things, I remember we would get into sometimes heated discussions about immigration, about abortion. And I, even back when I was liberal and I disagreed with her, I remember being just so moved by her innate goodness that there was always a part of me that thought, you know, there must be I have to have deference to what she is saying, and there must be some truth to what she is saying because a person of such goodness like this wouldn't hold these positions that I view as bigoted. Because I thought it was kind of bigoted that she was against abortion. I thought that it was kind of bigoted that she wanted strict border enforcement. And then when I became conservative, And I now would say that, uh, I'm, I share her stances on abortion and immigration. I just, I look back and I realize that my good meter overpowered my political disagreement. And I'm so grateful for that. Um, because I think she in part helped me become conservative. And, and for so many, and for so many people, it's the inverse. They let the political disagreement trump the good meter. And for her, I would not let that happen.

Well, you came now to realize— and I don't want to put any words in your mouth, obviously— that her goodness and her views, right? Well, exactly.

Reinforced each other. That's what I kind of realized when I became conservative.

So I'll, I'll say this: the beauty of, of what we do is people who've even heard me— and a lot of people have heard me all of my career, but even if, if it's only 5 years, which is a long long time as well. They haven't heard, because it brings out of me by— it's inevitable when you talk to somebody openly. So I'll give you a specific that I don't think I've ever quite related. I'm trying to phrase it delicately.

That's another thing. It's, it's so hard to do that.

Yeah, when you're, when you're on air, well, it's a very, well, it's a very sensitive issue. That, that's the reason I do. I don't, I don't want anybody to, um, have ill will toward anybody as a result of this. So, so I'll have to explain it. Many Blacks have anger at whites when they think about slavery, Jim Crow, etc., etc. And I don't think they should because whites have made a truly decent place for people of all races. Okay. There is a parallel in Jewish life and I grew up with it. Not from my parents but from my milieu. And that was Fear Christians, and most Christians don't know this. Whites are aware of Black fear, anger, etc., but I don't think Christians are aware of Jewish fear, anger, etc. I mean, part of the reason is most Christians don't know, or where Christians do I mean, you know, like Pastor Hagee of Christians United for Israel. He knows the history of Christian antisemitism. I mean, it was bad. And I wrote a book on antisemitism, and there's a chapter just giving highlights or lowlights of Christian antisemitism. So I was raised with that notion. Not, again, not in my family. My father was in the Navy. And he was one of the only Jews among the officers of his ship. So he was surrounded by Christians, you know, at a very formative time in his life. But that, again, the milieu in which I grew up, and then my life sort of amazingly, I became immersed in Christian life. Salem is run by Christians. I'm one of the only Jews, you know, that they have on air, and it doesn't matter to them, and it doesn't matter to me. I mean, these are very good people. So that combined with Republicans only care about the rich guy, and then I meet these Republicans who didn't only care about the rich guy, they cared about America. They were more likely to have their kids go into the armed forces. So between those two, I underwent relatively early a— this cognitive dissonance. Whoa, I was raised in this world, and then I see the world I was told to fear. Danger on the right. Christians are anti-Semites. I had the same thing. How so?

Well, You really confounded a lot of stereotypes for me that I had about conservatives. One of them, and this is one of the benign ones, but you just mentioned it, that Republicans only care about the wealthy. When I met you, I thought, I just sort of had this idea of your lifestyle. And certainly you are economically privileged, but you don't live a grandiose life. You don't, and that's by choice. You drive very ordinary cars. You live in a very nice but not, you know, extravagant mega mansion house. You, you know, you don't go out to these fancy restaurants. You don't even drink wine. So it's not even worth me saying that you're not—

I never go to fancy restaurants. No, never. You let—

and, and again, I just— I— it blew me away. And I know I said that phrase blew me away a lot this episode, but it's It's true. It did. I thought, wow, Mr. Prager, he has this radio show, he has all these books, he founded PragerU, he must have a driver and a limousine and butlers and 5 houses across the United States and you live a very ordinary life because that doesn't matter to you. As long as you're comfortable, that's okay. And so that was one of the ways.

That's why it's so important for people to meet the other, right? And, and, you know, now, by the way, sometimes it might reinforce your, your earlier negative impression. I'm not saying always will be a happy outcome, right? It was for me.

And I had someone write into me— you asked if people were writing in about Timeless— I had this young woman write in, and it was— it's hard to pinpoint what my favorite email is over these past few years because there have been so many, but this has to be in the top 5. And she said, when I saw you, I couldn't believe my screen. I couldn't believe that there was this young woman, she said, with chic clothes. I was like, oh, thank you. I don't know if my clothes are chic, but it was so sweet. With chic clothes talking about conservative old-time values. And I loved getting that email because it made me realize that I did for that girl what is so important. I confounded her stereotype. I disrupted her notion of what a conservative should be. And it's really, to your point, it's powerful when you meet the other, because I'm sure someone seeing my show on the outside would think that it's a lifestyle show or would think it's a liberal show. But then they listen to me and they see, even though I am young and maybe I do wear chic clothing, I don't know, I, I do care about the, the old and eternal. So that's right. Coming together again after 2 years of waiting is the Dennis Prager Listener Cruise going to the gems of Southeastern Europe from May 31st to June 13th. That's 13 days of a combined land and water cruise on AMA Waterways. Privately chartered for Dennis and his listeners. This cruise was just announced and it is already sold out, but you can get on the waiting list by calling 1-800-345-2483 and click on the banner on Dennis's website, or go to CoastlineTravel.com. The itinerary is a pre-cruise in Vienna and Budapest, cruising in Serbia, Bulgaria, and Romania, with a post-cruise in Bucharest included in your trip. There are 4 private lectures with Dennis Prager and Alan Estrin, nightly cocktail receptions, spacious staterooms, over 80% with balconies, chef's table experience included, open seating dining options, beverages including champagne, select wines, beer, and nightly specialty cocktails, unique local entertainment, complimentary tours in each port, and unlimited free Wi-Fi on the boat. Again, this cruise is already sold out, but if you'd like to get on the waiting list, you can call 1-800-345-2483 or click on the banner on Dennis's website or go to coastline-travel.com.

Well, I'll just end my own, my own evolution. Noting that it's been sort of a love affair between Christians and me, uh, for much of my life. From fear them, Dennis, to, well, I know them now, and a lot of them are wonderful people.

Have you ever met a Jew-hating Christian in all your years?

I can't say I have.

Or a white supremacist Christian?

Oh, well, I never met a white supremacist. Right.

So have you ever met a Christian that confirmed— no— the fear that you had of them going?

And the answer is no. When I say on radio, because we're told about all these white supremacists on the right, so my life is on the right, so I think Why haven't I met any? So there, the only possible answers are, well, you did, but they hide it from you, which is possible because they know I won't react well. My view of racism is as much that it's evil as that it's stupid. The idea that race says anything about you is stupid. And I don't hold, I don't think any stupid ideas. I don't say all of my ideas are right, but the wrong ones aren't stupid. And that's just stupid. And by the way, stupidity's taken over the left 'cause they do believe race is important. It's scary. But anyway, it has just been, that's why I can't wait to write my autobiography. I am so idealistic that I am finishing my Bible commentary despite the fact that all of my passion right now is to write my autobiography.

I really—

I don't know how you do it. Well, that's a separate question. I just know somebody has to explain these biblical texts or they will go further and further into oblivion.

So terrible.

It's just so true. No, I gotta tell you Julie, that you love the Rational Bible and the effect it's had on your life.

It has revolutionized my life.

Well, let me just say this. You don't even have to react. If all I did was affect you, it was worth it.

I know you said that at Shabbat the other day. I did. It was very touching. You did. Thank you. It's— again, I feel like a broken record, but it has so impacted me. It's like I was I can't remember who I was talking to the other day, but I was, I was telling someone about it and I said, you know, it was like when I was done reading it, it's like I put on these, these glasses and I just saw the world in a different shade. I saw, I just saw the world differently. And that was, I went from seeing the world in a secular way to a religious way. And it just, it's changed. It changed. It has changed my life from the mundane to the profound. It is, you know, when I walk down the street, when I, I look around me, I feel more connected to life. I appreciate the everyday more. And then also, it's so weird because being religious or having an appreciation for religion as I do makes the mundane more profound and the profound less daunting. And so then when I'm sitting in front of, like, thank God I have your Rational Bible Commentary and it really soaked in before I started my show. Because when I sit there, it could— the pressure and how daunting it is could be crippling and overpowering for me. But because thanks to you and your book, I have this religious worldview, I go, this is greater than me. You know, as long as I'm espousing good values here, like, it doesn't matter if I mess up. It doesn't— this you know, this one show doesn't matter. Like, I've— in other words, the me isn't as overpowering in my life. That's right. So anyway, that's just to say it is, it is so revolutionized me. And, you know, in my show Timeless— again, not to feel like I'm— you can do it— plugging it, but I'm actually not, I'm actually not even trying to.

I know you're not, but it doesn't matter. I want everybody to watch it. Right.

No, but I'm going to talk a fair amount about religion. And look, you know, and our viewers know that I don't know exactly theologically how I identify. But what I do know is that I'm an ethical monotheist. And as you say, I want to argue for the necessity of God in Judeo-Christian values rather than proof. So that will be a huge part of my show. And again, I promise I'm not saying that to just plug it. You don't have to apologize. I feel like a relentless, uh, salesman here.

We are salesmen, right?

But it annoys me when I hear the other—

it's like, oh no, we're salesmen for great ideas. It doesn't matter. Do you know that The Atlantic, which is of course left, it's not, uh, it's It's not even centrist. It's a left, uh, thought magazine. They have an article in the latest issue about— I didn't finish reading it, but it is about the increasing number of thinkers, professors largely, who argue that the demise of the human species would not be a calamity. So I said on my radio show, now folks, again, this is example number 10,000 of how the left keeps me religious. The left, the left shows me what secularism leads to. Yep. The left is an inevitable reaction to secularism. I know there are secular conservatives. I thank God for them. But ultimately, as I said, it's interesting, I now say this regularly because I speak a lot to conservatives who are not religious, and, and they're my allies and friends and great people. But my— I have a new line. I don't think you've heard this. I hope not, because you'll love it. Your grandchildren will be leftists.

Yeah. I worry about that with my kids. It's a great line.

It's a haunting line. Secular conservatives are terrific, but you cannot— secular conservatism cannot survive the death of the Bible, the death of God for generations.

Well, I talk about this with my Jewish friends, and the only reason why I'm specifically pointing out my Jewish friends as opposed to my Christian friends is because Jews are already a teeny tiny percentage of the world population and it's dwindling. But a lot of my Jewish friends are secular. And I say to them, and this is without even knowing your line, I say, your grandkids will not know what Judaism is. I don't think they care. Yeah. Well, they, well, we talked about this at Shabbat dinner. I thought it was a fascinating conversation.

I'm not sure your Jewish friends know what Judaism is.

Well, they say that it's, and obviously you're the expert, so tell me. They say that in addition to being a religion, it's an ethnicity.

Well, it's a people. It's not an ethnicity because there are Black Jews and Arab Jews and European Jews. It can't be an ethnicity, but it's okay. Well, they—

well, they—

it is a people. It is a nation.

So they say that their grandchildren will still be Jewish because it's a people, right? But the point that I try to make to them is They won't know any, any of the values. And the—

well, why? The biggest— why stay a member of a people that doesn't have distinctive values? Yeah, that's the truth. Same thing with American. Americans didn't teach their kids why America has distinctive values. And now look at how many kids don't identify as American. I'm a world citizen like Superman.

I fear for us, Dennis. You should. I really fear for us. And you're in your right to highlight this religion issue because I didn't think it was big until until I read The Rational Bible. And it—

most conservatives don't think it's big.

And it's, it really is. I know this sounds like an exaggeration, and as I said a few minutes ago, I'm trying to really work on my language, but it is everything. It is everything. It is everything. Because even, you know, as I said a few minutes ago, I don't know theologically, theologically, excuse me, how I identify, but thank God I have respect for Judeo-Christian values because that all, all we need is for people to be ethical monotheists. We don't really even need— I mean, it's just, it's an added bonus if people are believers, but we need people to be ethical. This raises an interesting question. Do you think that there can be a world that has ethical monotheists that are not believers? In the final analysis, because the believers have an extra commitment to the values, right?

Ethical monotheism is the belief that God wants us to be ethical, that God's primary demand is morality, and that without God there is no ultimate morality, there's just opinion, and the world collapses into chaos, which is what we're now seeing in a post-religious world. So can a person be an ethical monotheist acknowledging that but not personally believing in God? Can— is that what you're asking? Yeah, I think one can. I think, however, that over the course of a lifetime, when you realize that the world can't function without X, you start believing X exists. That's, that's enough. That's a big part of my faith. That's why I say the left keeps me religious. That's not a cute line. It is a very real line. By showing me the consequences of the death of God, I start to believe God is alive.

You know, it's funny, I will admit something to you and to our viewers right now. This is, you know how I mentioned at the beginning of the podcast, it will be so precious when I'm 50 to look back and literally see my moments of realization. I just had a moment of realization. I kind of thought that was a cute line of yours. Or a— interesting. I know that— well, so you don't say anything that doesn't have meaning. No, no, the left keeps me religious. They're so nuts. I'm getting the profundity here.

Oh, I am thrilled. You're really— you're right. I know I'm right, but it's not the reason I'm so thrilled you said it is— here is where I have the weakness of, of dates and, and, uh, or of numbers, let's say statistics and names. But I have a strength. I read other people's minds. That's one of the reasons I'm effective in my presentation, in writing, or in speaking. I know what they are thinking when they hear me say something. So that is why I said— I prefaced my comment. This is not a line.

Did you kind of see that? I—

oh, so interesting. Oh, you know, interesting, but not Anyone, anyone, anyone, right? It sounds like a cute line. The left keeps me religious. It is literally true. Yeah, as, as the, as the number of feet in a mile is true, that is true.

Well, that I'm again, I'm realizing the profundity and the trueness of that.

That's right. Well, when you come to realize it, this is like, I think, oh great, am I happy I said it. Yes. Because I look to you to carry this stuff on. Well, thank you.

And I hope to do it. I'm trying. But I just realized that you're so right about this because I know the kind of mirror image to be true, which is that I know that now that I am religious or have an appreciation for God, I see the effects in my own life are so great.

So that sustains my belief in God. So you have a micro Mine was a macro point.

Well, I have a, I guess, positive facing, you know, I see the beneficial effects of a life lived with allegiance to Judeo-Christian values. You're saying you see the negative consequences of a life not lived with Judeo-Christian values. And both I'm coming to see right now. Right. Both, both lead to the same conclusion. Yes. Because these values make you better and without them it makes you worse.

And the world, right?

But it is also a cute line. I mean, it is just true.

Well, I agree, because they're nuts. That's why I use it, because it, it resonates. I understand that, but it is meant literally. Look, I, I said all through my life, if the, if the left, which loathes the Judeo-Christian world It— do you know that the Stanford University band— did you— I don't know if you heard my broadcast on this. The Stanford University band just a week ago during halftime, playing against BYU, the Mormon university, had a scene, uh, during halftime mocking the vows that Mormons take to one another when they marry, having two women marry with one another. At halftime. So when I say that you are taught with leftism to, to mock and, and have contempt for religion, except Islam, for Judaism, Christianity, and especially Christianity, and, and Mormonism as, as, as an offshoot of Christianity, uh, I, I am telling the truth. So my point is If, if these people who mocked religion thought the Bible was fairy tales and nonsense at best, dangerous at worst— if these people produced good, deep, fine people, generally speaking, I don't know how religious I would be, because I'm very rational. And if something, if something based on reason is convincing, I'm convinced, right? So if the French Revolution produced something good, and the American Revolution, which was, which was God-based, were endowed by our Creator with certain inalienable rights— that's in the Declaration of Independence— the French Revolution slaughtered thousands and thousands of Catholic priests. They were diametrically opposed in their view of the Bible, God, religion. And one ended up with the guillotine and one ended up with the freest society ever devised. The French gave America, not itself, the Statue of Liberty, as I often point out. So, uh, uh, What is it? By their fruits they shall be known, or something to that effect. I think it's a New Testament line, and that is exactly right. The fruits of anti-religious leftism are chaos, intellectual and moral chaos. And the fruits of Judeo-Christian civilization has been the best people have ever come up with? Why isn't that dispositive?

Well, that's, that's what I came to a few years ago when, you know, I was secular and I thought the results are so in favor of those who hold these values, maybe there's something there. Yeah, that I should pay attention to, you know, crazy thought that maybe I should see what this is all about. And that relates to to another question I wanted to raise. I can't understand why people at the very least don't have curiosity. You know, I mean, first of all, I realized that this was something that I should pay attention to because the results, as I just said, are so in favor of those with the values. But also just the simple fact that hundreds of millions of people in the world today and billions over human existence have believed in these values, it makes me wonder, what are they? What are these things that so many people have flocked to? I wanna check the Bible out. Why do people lack that curiosity? It's astonishing. It's weird. It's downright weird. This is something that has been a cornerstone for better or for worse. And obviously it's been for better.

That's why I learned Russian. I wanted to know what do these Soviets believe? Believed. And it's not like I was attracted to it. I just wanted to understand what they believed.

Well, this is what we were talking about.

There is a lack of curiosity.

Well, right. That's what we were talking about a few episodes with even, you know, just Uber drivers, curiosity about other people. But this is a pretty— this is like, yeah, a lack of curiosity about a quite fundamental component of human existence. It's very odd. It's just odd. And look, for a lot of my life, you know, I, I wasn't religious, but I did get to a point when I was 20 years old where that curiosity kicked in for me. Thank God. Well, but a lot of my friends, it hasn't happened for them.

Well, it's back to my issue of the nature you're given. It's very hard. It's a double whammy fighting against human nature, which is universal, and fighting against individual nature. Of the individual. It's a double battle for— in many cases.

And in our case, we have the societal—

oh good, Matthew 7:16, you shall know them by their fruits. All right, I came close.

You also have societal influences that are looking to reinforce the bad parts of your nature or not correct for them.

That's right. That's why I said when Hillary Clinton came out with her book It Takes a Village, I said, I fully agree with her, but I don't like her village.

You know, I actually have met Hillary Clinton. Do you know this? Well, I know you seek stars. Yeah. He was talking about me the whole time, everyone. I saw her once on a beach, actually recently, a few months ago. And she had all of the security with her. And there was a beach path that we were on. And I was walking up it to go to the bathroom and she was walking down it to go to the beach. And we were alone on this beach path. Her security was about 30 feet behind her. And I thought, oh my gosh, I'm about to come face to face with Hillary Clinton. So I just was like, okay, and continued to walk. And I have to say, I have to give her credit. When she walked by me, she had sunglasses on, this big hat. Of course, she was probably trying to conceal her identity and this striped dress on, I remember. But she tilted down her sunglasses and she just smiled at me. She looked at me in the eye and she smiled. And I thought, you know, I don't agree with you on most things, but that was a very kind thing to do. To, you know, she could be one of those pompous stars like, oh, this girl's just walking by me on a beach path. I'm going to stare off into space and act important. But no, she made a deliberate effort to look and acknowledge me. So. Anyway, I have to give credit where credit's due.

I agree with you. Look, but then I— that's where— how did I develop my notion of nice people have done a lot of damage? People need to understand that the human being, morally speaking, is two different people, micro and macro. The left, which is extremely unsophisticated, berated me when I said, when I made this point about nice people who do bad things, and I gave the example of slave owners.

Oh yeah, they did.

They really did. I said, I'm sure there were a lot of nice slave owners. So the simpletons, and they are, they're— you can't think complexly and be leftist. You could be a liberal, but you can't be a leftist. So they go, oh Oh, really nice people who beat their slaves were nice? Like, wasn't I saying the opposite? That even people who had slaves, that some of them were otherwise nice? I mean, but look, I'm a Jew and I'm telling you there were nice Nazis.

There's no doubt that there were. There was— I played, uh, soccer and there was a parent, or maybe it was swim— I've played so many sports in my life, but there was a parent on the team of, I should say, of a girl on the team who was arrested for having child pornography. And he was really nice to me. I mean, he was very nice when we were, you know, practicing.

That's why I draw distinction. Then it came out he was this dark person. Nice is not the same as good. I have a good detector, not a nice detector. Retweet. I obviously— retweet. @DennisPrager. I definitely prefer nice people to not— to not nice people. Of course I want my neighbor to be nice. It's a, it's a nice trait to, to be nice, but it does— it's not, it's not the moral IQ, the MQ, the moral quotient of the human being. And I learned that in, in Minnesota where they elect bad people, and there's so many nice people in Minnesota.

Well, I saw it at Harvard. A lot of my classmates, a lot of the professors, they're very nice you know, that's an interesting question.

I would like to have spent a week at Harvard invisibly, which is hard at 6'4" and looking as I look, but I would like to have. I wonder if I would have even found them quite nice. I, I don't, I don't know the answer.

I have to say, I mean, even after I became conservative, there were still a lot of people at Harvard who were quite nice to me.

I, I'm very happy to hear that. I know you've said that and I believe you. Um, I would like to do the same at Yale. I have a picture of a picture, pretty dark picture of Yale students.

Well, also, I'm not an incredible public figure, you know, like, I, I mean, I'm not trying to discount what I've done, but I'm not, I'm not famous by any means. So I'm sort of a low-level threat, if that makes sense. But, but still, again, I, I have to give credit where credit's due.

Well, but you look, you did write a very strong attack on your classmates at Harvard in the Wall Street Journal. Okay, that, that's a big deal.

Can't get more direct than Harvard students are COVID sheep. That's right.

And I, I was pleasantly surprised that you were not vilified more on campus.

What's interesting is that, you know, I mentioned when I was telling that PragerU story that everyone knows I had those two weeks of hell. I was more canceled during those two weeks when I just did one appearance on your show than I was when I came back to Harvard for my senior year after doing multiple appearances on your show. And I think it's because I was canceled more at the beginning because I wasn't all in Like, I still, I don't know how openly I'm saying this, but I didn't subscribe. I didn't fully unsubscribe from their worldview. So technically I was still in the territory of being canceled. But then when I just went fully, came out conservative, was on your show once a week, guest hosted for you, you know, was just out in the open, I actually found that fewer people canceled me because it was, It was just like, I don't subscribe to your— you can't cancel me because I'm not in your camp anymore.

I sort of self-cancel. Yes, it's a good, good point to end on. I always think the time flew. Me too. It's a good sign. It is, as I say on my radio. It's really fun. Totally. So, uh, how do people write to you?

You can write to me at julie@julie-hartman.com. I love hearing from you. H-A-R-T, not H-E-A-R-T. H-A-R-T-M-A-N. And you can follow us at Dennis Julie Pod on Twitter and Instagram and Dennis and Julie Podcast on Facebook. And we will see you next week. Sean, is it going to be number 40 next week?

This is 40. No, that'll be 40. You know, 40 is a big biblical number.

I know. In this 40 years of broadcasting, you just celebrated.

Oh, that's right. I didn't think of that.

Yeah, we kind of blew past that. That's a huge accomplishment.

If you get— if you give people good values, it's a huge accomplishment. Longevity in and of itself is not an accomplishment.

I know from doing just one week of shows.

Oh, that's true.

That 40 years is one hell of an accomplishment.

Well, God gave me a lot of energy.

See you next time, guys.

And up on the wind it's carried over the cities and the plains. You got time, you're only man-made.

Your beloved dog and a stranger are both drowning. You can only save one. Who do you save? Every time Dennis Prager asks that question, his audience splits three ways. One-third chooses the dog, one-third chooses the stranger, and one-third aren't sure. Why? Because we live in an age where increasingly feelings define right and wrong. But if morality is based on emotion, then murder, rape, and theft are just opinions. And if people feel justified, why is rioting or destruction wrong at all? In his new book, If There Is No God, Dennis Prager explains why civilizations cannot survive without objective morality, and why Judeo-Christian values shape the moral foundations of the free world.

If you claim that certain things are good, certain things are evil, independent of how you feel about it, you are in effect affirming God.

If There Is No God by Dennis Prager, available now at PragerStore.com. That's PragerStore.com.