Dennis & Julie: Ethical Monotheism

Your dog and a stranger are drowning. You can only save one. Who do you choose? Dennis Prager says your answer reveals everything about how you define right and wrong. In his new book, If There Is No God, Prager exposes the danger of emotion-based morality and why without objective truth, society descends into chaos. This isn't a religious book. It's a rational case for moral clarity in a confused age. If There Is No God from Dennis Prager. Order now at PragerStore.com.

I want to hear the music. It's a great choice.

People love the music.

They do?

Yes.

Did you choose it or Sean? I know I did.

I chose it. Well, Sean sent me a few options and I chose this one.

Why don't you do that with me, Sean? Send me a few options for my radio show and I'll choose one.

I like your music. You have that— what is it, Sean? What's the song? I actually do. What's the song that Dennis Prager opens his show with? It's done.

Oh, the Gladiator.

Oh no, no, that's great.

That's Hans Zimmer, one of the great music— movie composers of our time. Dennis Prager here with Julie Hartman. It's the Dennis and Julie Podcast.

Number 19.

It's really remarkable.

We are soon going to surpass my age with the number of episodes. I'm 22.

And we're coming up on mine.

That's right.

Imminent.

It's your birthday soon, Dennis. August 2nd, right?

Yes. I will say that birthdays when you are a kid are much more exciting. Just for the record.

Oh, I'm noticing they're becoming less and less exciting as I get older.

Is that right?

Only 22.

At my 30th birthday party, it was at this Jewish retreat center that I was the director of because it's in the middle of the summer and we had 90 college students in the July, 90 in August. So that one night on my birthday They baked or they bought a cake and it was a tombstone.

Oh gosh.

That for all intents and purposes at 30 you've died.

That's a bit morbid.

Oh, I thought it was hilarious because sick— I don't have many sick parts. I'm, if I may say, pretty healthy and I thank God for that. Yes, not good. Wherever the wood might be, correct. I did find 30 a challenge.

Why?

Because I'm an idiot. Why? Because— well, it's an interesting question. I've never really been asked that. Most people just assume, yeah, yeah, 30, you know, you're not a kid anymore, you gotta face reality. But I wasn't a kid when I was a kid in some ways, and I'm still a kid as I was a kid then, so it's a good combination. But I, I just realized that this was— it was my first confrontation with— I won't even say mortality, but you know what, inexorably you get older. I think that that's, that's what 30 did to me. It, it You, you know, intellectually you're not going to be here forever, but the numbers are reminders.

I have to tell you, I had a difficult time turning 20, which you will probably laugh at and the listeners will probably laugh at. But I, you know, when you turn 10, it's so exciting, double digits, right? And then when I turned 20, I went, oh God, I'm not a teenager anymore, I'm entering this new decade.

Well, it's a valid Right.

And I turned 20 2 days after my sister got married. She got married in 2019 and on October 12th, and my birthday is October 14th. By the way, I have Charlie Kirk's birthday. We share a birthday.

Very nice.

And I was on the plane flying back to Cambridge. I had flown home to Los Angeles for my sister's wedding. And I think the wedding must have had something to do with that because I was, I was feeling a bit wistful that day that I turned 20.

I'll tell you, and I hope this doesn't happen, but I'll tell you when you will feel wistful, because I've done this on a number of occasions on the Male-Female Hour. When a woman turns 29 and is not married, oh yes, uh, it— bells go off. Does that make sense?

Yes. Well, I'm being very vulnerable with you right now and with our listeners. My biggest fear is that I'm not going to get married. So I fear that I will be that 29-year-old that's not married. But you know what?

Well, you know what, I just want to say something.

It's Dennis's number one project to get me married, as we talked about last episode.

Oh, you have to share. I want to comment on— I don't want to forget what I wanted to say about your open and vulnerable self. It's one of the many reasons I love you. And that was very powerful that you said that. That's also why this, this dialogue we have every week is unique. We're both very, very open. This is about life, not just about issues.

I know many people— I think it's a characteristic of young people these days, and maybe it's just a characteristic of our secular society, but people view vulnerability as weakness. I so appreciate when people are vulnerable. How many times do I go out to dinner with people? It is totally strength.

That's right.

I— we have, um, some family friends, and they're very nice people, but whenever I see them out and about in Los Angeles, they can never say that something is wrong. I say, how are your kids? Great, everyone's great, they're so happy. This one just won this prize, and this one is applying to— and it's just, it's It's sort of nauseating. Like, come on, not everything can be great all the damn time.

When it's so— this is— it's blowing my mind what you're saying now. People say, so is everything going great? Or something like that. There's a phrase that people say, right? Everything. And I go, you have to be kidding. It's not possible for everything to be going great.

Of course not.

Or is everything all right? You know, everything. You know, people say it's a sweet thing. I'm not knocking it, but right, we're both aware. And anyway, I don't, I don't enjoy conversation that isn't real. You don't either. And this is why we get— one of the many reasons we get along so well. But it's— and why this is important, in my opinion, what we're doing. But I, for example, I ask people questions. When I meet a couple who have children, grown children— I mean, by grown, I mean teenager older— I, I think in every instance I ask them, and I say, look, you know, I— this may be a difficult question for you to answer, but I, I just am curious. How many of your children share your values? I ask that to every couple I meet privately. And that's a very vulnerable-inducing question.

Yes.

Very few people, if they have 3 or more children, very few do all of them share their values.

I saw a video on PragerU's Instagram page. I think it was during one of your fireside chats. And you talked about this notion that Obviously, good parenting is paramount to producing good children. However, I really appreciated this point you made. You also said a lot of it is luck. Sometimes even if you parent your children really well, you can't always control the way that they turn out. And that I think goes along nicely with the point you just made about children not sharing your values. I know many parents who raise their kids well and who have good values, and sometimes their kids don't end up the way that they thought they would. And they think it's a referendum on their parenting. And of course, in some cases it may be, but not always.

This is a tough call. If your kid turns out psychologically troubled, the odds are you played very little role in that, right? That, that I will say. Values— parents, and I don't— I'm not blaming them— parents Most parents do not know how to instill the right values in their children.

It's difficult, I have to say.

I mean, they don't think about it.

They think they don't—

I, I hold X, Y, and Z, I live a good life, my kids will hold X, Y, and Z. That is, that's the thinking, that it's sort of, it's sort of by osmosis. But as I tell people, if you want your kid to play the piano well, your playing the piano well is not sufficient.

Right. We talked about this recently. It has to be both actions and words.

And speech. And speech.

Right.

And I got this from my favorite book, the Torah, the first 5 books of the Bible. You will talk about these values— I have to translate from the Hebrew— when you lie down and when you rise up and when you walk by the way In other words, all the time, right?

You know, though, there is a fine line. I'm interested to hear what you think about this. I know someone who is very religious, and she and her husband tried to raise their kids to also be very religious. She's Christian. And with all due respect to her, and this is— this woman is really, in addition to you, one of the best people I've ever known in my life. Some of her kids have embraced the religiosity, and the other one of her children really rejected it. And he told her that he felt like it was just shoved down his throat at all times. So there's a fine line.

Well, right. Oh, oh, I didn't say religion. I said values.

True. Religion is, is really tricky.

Very tricky. Very tricky, right? If there were kids who were religious and they not, not, not nice kids, there were kids who were God-centered or weren't religious It's a very complex question whether you can raise your kids religious like you are. But values— you— we think— religious people think values and religion are identical. But if they were, then all Christians would have the same attitudes, all Jews would have the same attitudes.

That's an important point.

It's a very important point. Yes, exactly. Anyway, now back to your vulnerability.

Oh, I was hoping that we could just—

oh no, kidding. You blew— no, I know that, but you blew my mind with your openness.

Oh, thank you.

So I want to talk about that fear, but first, on a lighter note, so I announced last week—

oh, this is great.

It is great. It makes it all worthwhile.

It does.

So I announced that my stepson's girlfriend was at a Starbucks not far from here last week in La Crescenta, California. And which means nothing to even most people who live in California. So that's why I just said not far from here. Anyway, uh, she, she sees at Starbucks nice-looking guy about 30 years old sitting in Starbucks reading— show the book— this book, my, my Bible commentary, one of the volumes of my Bible commentary. Okay, there you go. That— so Thank God she recognized it. And she took this picture, and of course my first reaction was, oh, Julie's husband.

You're on the lookout for me, Dennis.

Oh, am I ever. So I was so sad that she didn't go over to him.

I know.

But she's only 19, and I totally understand. She's not going to walk over to a strange guy. It seems a little odd. But I mean, she had such an obvious line. You know, my boyfriend's stepdad is the guy who wrote this book. I think he would find that interesting.

He would. He may not believe her.

I think he would.

She could prove it pretty fast.

It's an odd line to make up. That's true.

It is oddly specific.

Anyway, so you got an email. Tell everybody.

Yes. Off the bat, I just want to say for the people who are excited at home, I did not get an email from this gentleman, but I got an email from a lovely woman. I forget her name, but I could call it up on my phone pretty quickly. And she said, she in the start, in the subject line, excuse me, she put in all caps, Starbucks La Crescenta. And she goes, Julie, I was just listening to your podcast. I heard what Dennis Prager said and I go to that Starbucks all of the time. And let me tell you, it is my new project to look out for this guy for you. So we've got an ally out there. This woman, this lovely, lovely woman. I forwarded it to Dennis and Sue, and I said, we have someone on the lookout.

She loved it too. I loved it. That people are on the lookout for this guy.

We're going to find him.

We're going to find him. Oh, we're going to find him. It's not, not a question. The only question is when, right? You know, this lifetime. Will it— will— by the way, the joke will be the guy's married.

Oh, I know. I was just thinking that. It's so funny. He, he can go back and listen to this when he finds out that we've been looking for him and see that we've devoted probably an aggregate of 10 to 15 minutes of airtime trying to spread the word to find him.

We should, we should put the picture up.

We should. Yes, we should. Is that a violation of privacy, do you think? Ah, whatever. It's for a good cause.

Yeah, it would, it would be odd to me. It's not like he's— we have a picture of him with a mistress, right?

That's true.

Yeah. Okay, so now to the super duper duper duper serious comment that you made.

Oh no, here we go.

The spontaneity of our talks on this podcast is one of the reasons I so enjoy doing it. So it's a tough one. You said you You have this fear that you might never get married.

Yes.

What does that emanate from?

I would say that there are two reasons that I have that fear. First of all, and we've talked about this at length, I believe we even talked about it, uh, during our last episode, people nowadays, people my age don't want to date. Many of them are succumbing to the hookup culture, men and women. I have never been someone who has been like that. Have I at times, again, in the spirit of full honesty, have I at times dabbled in the hookup culture in college? Yes, I have. It has never made me feel good and I have only done it very sparingly. And so I do, I only really date if I think that this person would end up being a serious partner of mine. I'm not necessarily saying I will only date someone unless I think I'm going to marry them, but they have to, I don't just date casually. And by the way, I don't judge people who do date casually. Many of my friends do, and they're happy, and they think it's, you know, good experience and good for them. I just know I'm not that person. So that's my first fear, that I'm not going to find someone that will want to seriously date, because a lot of men today are very into the hookup culture, especially men my age. That's number one. Number two, you know, I am so glad that I've become conservative. I'm so glad that I have found you and embraced these values and I've gone public with it, I wouldn't have it any other way. But of course I do worry that that will be a deterrent for people. I worry that I will not find a man who shares my values because, to be honest, Dennis, I have encountered very few people my age who do. I've always throughout my life gotten along better with adults, and that is ever true now that I have really embraced the values that you espouse. And so I just fear that someone will not share my values. And also, I am going to be in the public eye. Time will tell if, you know, the extent to which I will be in the public eye. But I don't know how many men would want to date a woman like that.

So it's a double whammy— the values issue and, and you're being a public person.

Yes. And then the hookup culture reality.

Let me just say, as a guy who wants in a wife— and I have one, and you know our marriage— a partner. I, I, that, that is largely a, an issue that you will be able to handle. Most, for many men— I don't know about most— for many men, it could be an issue. I acknowledge that.

You mean my being in the public eye?

Yes. But if it is clear to him that he's number one in your life— that's what men want to be, number one in their wives' life— that they— that's—

and wives want to be number one in their husbands' lives.

Yes, they do. But, but, but there is a but. It's not identical. It's not symmetrical because a woman wants Most women want a man who is ambitious and who is devoted to conquering the world in whatever that means— monetarily, professionally, academically, intellectually, whatever it means. So it's not entirely symmetrical. So, so I just—

you're right about that.

Thank you.

No, no, and I mean, I know you're, you're right about it with all women, but I'm a particular case, and even you're right about that with me. I do not want to date or marry someone who isn't ambitious. That's a turn-off for me.

Yes, exactly. So when I say he wants to be the number one person in your life, of course you want to be very important in his life and the number one person, right? But he wants to not just be the number one person, the number one thing. That's— that's— you forced me, which is good. I should talk about this on the Male Female Hour, but So if you make that clear, yes, I have this public success at a very early age, and I am probably more of a public figure than you, my dear boyfriend or whatever.

My dear Jimmy.

My dear Jimmy. Is that what you named the guy at Starbucks? Okay.

Yeah, let's call him Jimmy.

All right, fine.

Starbucks man.

But now we can't call this anonymous guy Jimmy. But all right, yeah, Starbucks man. Is Jimmy fine? So that's what you can do. That if it's clear, look, as important as my public life— I, Julie, my public life is— you are the most important thing in my life, right? Then he'll deal with it, right?

I hope so.

Well, I'll tell you, I think I met a model of that, and then we're going to come back to you. You will find this fascinating. So I think one of the greatest human beings of the 20th century certainly one of the greatest leaders, and there aren't many great leaders, they're very rare, was Margaret Thatcher. The woman, irrespective of female, male, she was—

She was a force.

Unbelievable. And I, for whatever reason, I lucked out in spending an evening with her and—

Oh, wow.

Yes, and introducing her to an audience and so on. And I'll never forget what struck me being with her alone was her femininity. This woman had more strength than 95% of the male leaders in the world, but you knew you were with a woman. How did that become very hard to describe? Right. But I know when I meet a feminine woman in 10 seconds, as you know, if you meet a masculine man in 10 seconds.

Totally.

So That was— and the other is everyone who knew her knew how much she loved her husband, who was named Dennis, ironically. Her husband Dennis, she made dinner for him. The Prime Minister of England made dinner for Dennis. Now, by the way, the joke is I don't want my wife to make dinner for me. I'd much rather eat out. But I'm a fluke among men in that regard.

But why do you like eating out?

Sorry to derail you. Okay, so that's another subject. Talk about being open. I, this is a complete idiosyncratic thing in me and I recognize it. I identify eating out of the house with freedom.

Boy, are we similar. Oh my gosh. When I need a break or when I, you're so right, I have to go eat out. It's an experience. It's a luxury for me. I feel like I'm breaking free from something.

Well, for me, it's a necessity.

Right. God, we are so similar. My favorite thing to do is eat out. I don't care if it's—

Oh, it's irrelevant.

Just to be out of the house.

Yes.

People watch.

It should be Subway.

Totally.

That's right.

Boy, okay, sorry.

All right, so anyway, so if I met Margaret Thatcher's husband, he would have said, of course, she's one of the most famous people on earth. She's the powerful leader of freedom in Western Europe. But she's my wife and I— but I am Dennis and I'm the center of her, of her personal life. So that's how you would— I think, I think it's dealable with, but it's much in your hands.

You're right.

How you make him feel.

Right.

Okay.

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So back to— so, all right, so that you had two fears with regard to not getting married. The first one is legit, the values one. Yes, I think, I think that that is even greater than the second one. The second one is not insignificant, but I think you— it's how you deal with it. But the first one, I just— but this is what will surprise you. I had the exact same problem a generation ago, or whatever, maybe more than a generation ago, whatever divides us.

It's even worse now, which worries me.

But well, it is and it isn't. I want to address that too. Let me just tell you, I remember thinking when I was dating, and I, I always wanted to get married I didn't get married till 32 because I didn't find anybody. And I met a lot of women because I was a public figure and I met a lot of women. But I remember thinking, if I talk on a date with what I care about, how many women are going to respond? I cared about evil. I'm going to talk on a date about evil? How many women on a date in their 20s want to talk about evil.

Oh gosh, do I relate to this. I feel sometimes like I'm coming across as a weirdo because I want to sit down when I meet someone, I like to ask them what some would consider to be hard-hitting or personal questions. So, you know, what's your biggest regret in life? What was the most formative experience in your life? Who's, who's a role model that you have? What do you think about the state of our country? That's what I like to discuss even in my free time. You know that because we talk about it all the time, right? And sometimes when I go on dates, I think, oh my gosh, I'm scaring this guy off, or I'm coming off as weird.

So it's hard, right? It is.

You can't hide who you are, and I'm not going to because I want to marry someone who knows.

So it's not a consolation. Well, it might be a little— I'm saying it to be slightly a consolation. It's not, it's not new, right? The most people don't preoccupy themselves with what we preoccupy ourselves with, and, and It starts very early in life. I told the joke about, you know, when I was trying to pick up a girl. And she said, "What do you speak on? Ethical monotheism?" And that was the end of that pickup. It is not a pickup line. You know, I should have said, you know, female anatomy. I don't know what I should have said. Or a doctor. That would have gone over great. All right, but so I want you to understand the good news is that I am meeting a lot of really impressive people your age.

Oh good.

Well, look at PragerU.

Oh, you're so right.

The median age is probably 25.

I have to tell you, when I get down sometimes with regard to this topic, I think about PragerU and how many great young people work there, and I'm encouraged by that.

Exactly. It should be. So anyway, that I understand that fear. I wonder how many girls/women your age fear that they won't get married. And I tell you why I wonder it, and then I obviously want your reaction. I wonder it because I just wonder at what age does that set in. You're 22. Does it, does it set in at 30, 40? No. But the other one is The reactions I get when I talk to women your age and men, obviously, but, but it's more surprising among women is, yeah, I don't think about it much. I'm focused on my career. So many women your age, I don't know if they are as worried as you.

You're right. I think that many would say it's not something that they think about. But for those who do think about it, I think that they would agree with me, or rather have the same view as I do, that it is something that concerns them. Well, because men nowadays are not men, they're boys for a long time. That's the reason they don't want to date. They just want to hook up.

Yes.

In fact, I was listening. You sent me, uh, your shul or minyan talk from a few weeks ago. Yes, synagogue. Every Saturday morning Dennis gives a talk. And you sent it to me, and it was a boy's bar mitzvah. And you said something that really gave me pause. You said, in no other religion is there something like a bar mitzvah, where a boy becomes a man and a girl becomes a woman. Essentially, that is the moment in life where the boy is told that it's time to grow up and take responsibility for your actions. And You know, I just think that would be something— obviously not everyone is Jewish, but there needs to be a message to boys that at a certain age they have to grow up. They can't do the philandering, they can't hook up and just, you know, do one-night stands with women anymore. They've got to grow up and court women. And— but the problem is, Dennis, and I know we've discussed this and you've talked about this a lot on air, I do blame women. For a lot of this. They go along with the hookup culture. Not virtually no women like hookup culture. Many say that they do, but I doubt that they really truly do. They feel that they have to go along with it and that they don't have another option. What if women started to insist again that we be treated respectfully and that a man take us out on a date, takes us out to dinner before they hook up with us? We have to start drawing boundaries, and women have not been doing that in the past few decades, and we are the people who are harmed.

In order for a woman to say that, she is immediately announcing there are deep inherent differences between men and women.

You're right.

This is an amazing thing. I believe ideology trumps nature. I never thought that. The left has made me realize I can tell you things that violate everything that is innate to you, totally, and you will accept it.

Look at what's at this transgender craze among young children.

That's right. They are boys or girls, right? The life for the— virtually every single human is binary, sexually speaking, right? So the notion that, wow, I'm a 12-year-old girl, but I really think I'm a boy. This ideology has trumped nature. She's a girl.

It's so sad because when I was listening to Ben Shapiro talk about this actually just this morning, and he said, you know, when— because what's happening now, thanks to Gail Shrier's book, has exposed this. What's happening now is that It used to be that mostly men would transition to becoming women. Now overwhelmingly it's women transitioning to becoming men. And brand new, it is brand new. And Ben Shapiro was saying it is so sick because when a girl turns 13— and, and I could relate to this very much as someone who went through puberty myself— you're very confused about your body. Your breasts start growing. Sorry for TMI. You start growing hair in certain places. You— your hormones take over. You become a little bit moody. You're, you're sometimes Sometimes your skin breaks out. You know, your body is undergoing some pretty—

revolution.

Yes, it is. And so, you know, if you're moody or if you're confused about your body or if there's something that you don't like about your body, now what they're doing is instead of saying this is normal, this is part of puberty, you're going to get through this, it's an awkward phase where you're getting to know essentially your new self, now they're saying, oh, if you're feeling uncomfortable during this time, well, you may not actually be a woman. You may be a man.

That's right.

How sick is that? That totally goes along with your point of ideal ideology trumping nature.

Who would have thought that?

Oh, I know, it's so sad.

Human nature is so, so deep. I know, it's sort of fixed. But if it could be done on male/female, it could be done on anything. But it started with, hey girls— this was my generation, the announcement to my generation of women. And I will admit, I'm not proud of it, and I'm not ashamed of it. I'll just admit I couldn't have been happier that girls of my age, my generation, in my 20s, believed, hey, we could have sex just as meaninglessly as men can. Look, I appreciate it because I was a very moral guy, and I, right, I would never lead a girl on. But if, if she was as volunt— terribly involved as I was, I— there was no moral problem.

I appreciate that honesty. It's true. I'm sure, I'm sure 99% of men feel that way. How could they not? We're giving them exactly what they want.

Feminism was men's best friend. That's what they thought, right? Turns out to have been their enemy, as it is women's enemy, right? Because it emasculated men just as much as it defeminized women, right? It's a terrible combination. You want— you wonder why would people opt for this? Isn't it beautiful to grow into a woman? Isn't it beautiful to grow into a man? I would I would think so.

I would think so too, but apparently not nowadays. People's minds are so screwed up from, from such a young age. You know, I was thinking, Dennis, and again, this fuels my fear about marriage. There are a lot of people growing up who are going to end up being very sick and screwed up. We think suicide rates are high now. How about in 5 years or 10 years? And I, I got to tell you, I'm scared. Because I, I hate to say it, but one day you're not going to be around. One day your generation, which has already turned woke, but there, there are many more people like you in your generation than there are in mine. And I worry as I get older, I'm increasingly going to find fewer and fewer people. Yeah, not just— I'm not even just talking about marriage. Luckily, it only takes one.

That's right.

With marriage, but just friends. It's sad.

Well, I, as I said, that's— I agree with you, but the good news is that there are, I think there are more outliers in your generation than there were in mine.

Why do you say that?

Because I meet them. There was no PragerU, there was no TPUSA, You know, I speak— when I speak for Charlie, you know, there are 5,000 young people there. You wouldn't have pulled 5,000 conservatives in my generation.

You're right. I think a lot of this also, I have to recognize, comes from the environments that I've grown up in. I've been in secular materialist Los Angeles, secular materialist Harvard, so—

That's right.

I would have reason to be discouraged.

You were the one, or maybe there were two outliers. Did I introduce you, right, to a girl who was going to be going to Harvard? Harvard.

I actually met with her. Yes.

Oh, you did? I didn't know that. And how did it go?

Oh, it was lovely. She's such a sweet girl. I actually called her on, on my way driving over here today because we were supposed to meet again, and I said, I'm so sorry, I've been so busy, but we're going to see each other again in August. Ready for this? She lives around the corner from me.

No.

Yes. Can you believe it?

So this girl, just for the first— just for the audience, this girl was, uh, came to a speech of mine. She's going to Harvard and said, you know, just— I don't know how it came up, maybe her parents I mean, it doesn't matter. It came up that she's going to be enrolling in Harvard. And I go, oh, then you have to meet Julie, another conservative who's just graduating Harvard. She was very happy. And so you finally— you guys did meet.

Oh my gosh, it was so funny.

She lives around the corner.

We were texting and I asked her where in Los Angeles she lives because I was thinking, oh gosh, we're going to probably have to drive both 40 minutes. And it turns out she lives right around the corner from me. It would take me 3 minutes to walk to her house.

That is funny.

Two conservatives who— one's a Harvard graduate, one's an incoming Harvard student who live—

by the way, this proves I'm not only trying to find her boyfriends, I'm trying to find her girlfriends.

I'm very lucky. I do have many good girlfriends. We've talked about that. You do.

And so, you know, and many of them are not conservative. I know, which is very— it's I'm proud of them and I'm proud of you. But I just— you probably know this. So I have this very important thing up on the internet, 6 or 8 questions you should ask before you get married. It's a— did you see that?

No, I didn't.

Oh my God. There's something about me you don't know. What a joy. So, you know, I write a column a week and I don't always write about topics in the news. So I wrote a 2-part column. About 15 years ago. And it's, it's that, it's that questions you should ask before you get married. And one of them is— and by the way, I have gotten feedback, some couples broke up. Oh wow. And which is, thank God.

I know. Yeah, absolutely.

Because this made them confront issues. So one of them is, does, does the person you are Thinking of marrying, have any close friends of the same sex?

Boy, is that important.

It is very important. I mean, there can be exceptions for whatever reason, but overwhelmingly it is indicative of something is awry, especially if they only have couples, uh, friends of the opposite sex. That's, that to me is a yellow flag.

I have to tell you, the two girls in college who gave me the hardest time about my work with you are two girls who only have boyfriends, meaning boyfriends.

Oh, is that interesting?

Any girlfriends?

See, it all follows a pattern.

It does. And by the way, what's so funny about these two girls I'm thinking of, you know, they claim to be so woke and, you know, advocates for the poor and downtrodden. And they are— I'm not going to say which firms they are working at, but think of the most prominent, prestigious financial firms, and they work at those firms.

I know the discord between their life and their preaching.

I've got to tell you, maybe this is a bad thing to say on air. One of the joys of being in the public eye and doing this is sometimes I get to subtweet people. Do you know what it means to subtweet someone?

No.

Sort of chirp someone that has wronged you without saying their name.

Go on.

That was a bit cathartic for me to reference these two girls just now.

You think they saw it?

No, I don't think they're listening, but it's just cathartic to just talk about it.

No, I don't think they're listening, but the tweet itself.

Oh no, no, no, I'm not—

Oh, subtweet is not literal.

Yes. You know how sometimes I say to you, I said this to you on the phone the other day, you said you dropped one of your truth bombs, as Sean would say, and I said to you, retweet. And I just said it verbally, which means in Twitter it means that you're right, reposting it. I would just say it out loud to you, meaning I want it repeated.

Or I think— were these two girls at Harvard?

Yes. Oh God, are they awful. Sorry, it's so cathartic to talk about them. Obviously I can't say them by name, but these two girls have no girlfriends and they claim that I am so bigoted. Meanwhile, they are awful to fellow women, for all that they preach about women supporting women, and they work at two of the most prestigious financial firms, and all they talk about is how we have to help the poor and downtrodden.

What, what leftism does— by the way, religion did this for a lot of people too, I fully acknowledge it— it offers awful people a, a veneer Oh, moral superiority. Yes.

Oh, absolutely.

And, and everybody knows about the religious hypocrite, and they do exist, obviously.

Of course. Yes.

But they never talk about the secular hypocrite. They don't talk about anything bad secular.

Well, I have to tell you, one of my favorite lines in your Torah commentary, if I had to pick one— I said this to you on the phone the other day— it was in chapter— I can actually pull it up right now. I believe it's in chapter 2 of Genesis, or sorry, chapter 4, when you're talking about Cain and Abel. In how Cain and Abel made sacrifices to God. See, I have it right here.

And you said, is there anything you didn't underline?

Very little. Here, I'm going to show it to the camera for those of you—

I love it. I love it.

I underline almost everything. You said to me once— well, you actually, you said two things to me that really stuck with me. As I'm writing my book, I think about this. Number one, you said, I worked hard so the reader doesn't have to. You have such clarity in your writing. And the second thing you said is, "I want at least one underlinable line per page." Well, Dennis, you've succeeded because I've underlined about 5 sentences per page. Anyway, so you're talking about Cain and Abel making sacrifices. I love this analysis. It's my favorite. You write, "The Torah states matter-of-factly that Cain and Abel brought offerings to God, suggesting the universality of sacrifice, prayer, and belief in a deity." We know of no pre-modern society that was atheistic, and of no ancient society that did not have sacrifices to its gods. This is my favorite line: The widespread extent of atheism and secularism in our time is unique in human history. Whether modern godless societies can long survive is an open question. That is so important. Never before in our history have we had a secular society like this one. So there's no precedent for it. We've seen societies that have gone off the deep end with religion, but we've never seen an overly secular society. If I had to tell one people that one line in your entire Torah commentary would be that.

If I was smiling more broadly, it would hurt my cheek.

I know, I love seeing that smile.

Thank you.

Someone commented on that, by the way. One of the listeners said whenever you bring something up that means a lot to Dennis, he gets this Lovely smile.

That's sweet.

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That is the question. Do you know I'm within 4 weeks of my 40th anniversary of radio? Well, I'm within 2 weeks.

We've got to do something.

We should do something. Yes, we'll get a cake. It's like a tombstone. So I have said all of my career that there's been one overriding theme of all of my broadcasting. The consequences of secularism.

Right.

And I can say, if it sounds like I'm boasting, I couldn't care less. I am boasting, to be honest. It's true. I'm the only one who is doing this. I have truly marched to a different drummer all of my life, and that is a perfect example to have entered radio, not religious radio, regular radio, and that's your underlying theme. There are so many— there have been really wonderful other broadcasters. I was not the only one, but I was the only one in, in regular radio or, or anywhere for whom that was the dominant theme. Please understand the consequences of secularism. We are experimenting, which is what you just read. We are experimenting with something unique in all of human history, truly unprecedented. No God, no religion, no sacrifice, no nothing. And look, and that's— that is— I talked today. Did you see the picture in this book in Oregon, in the, in the elementary school library of two young men fellatio in fellatio? No, it's beyond belief. Gosh, at an elementary school library.

Unfortunately, it's not shocking.

It's not.

No, a drag queen story hour they do for you.

This is, this is on a higher level.

It is.

This is on a lower level, if you will, or higher level of sickness. The desire to sexualize children is, is a form of perversion on the part of adults. It is, it is truly, it is truly sick. Anyway, this was really good. So people know you better. Maybe one of our listeners will send in a suggestion for a guy. I would, I would have— look, I— it's a, it's an ongoing ribbing of my wife that I tell her, look, you knew me so early on in my radio career, why didn't you send a damn picture?

Oh my gosh, that's right. She listened to you.

Yes, I'm annoyed with her.

You know, I have to tell this story on behalf of you guys. Of course, you can interrupt me and tell it yourself, but I loved this. You, you and Sue came over to my house for dinner about a year ago with— so my parents could meet you before I started working with you. And my parents, of course, asked how you met. And I love this, that you— and you've talked about this on the podcast, that you met Sue at one of your speeches, and it was God rewarding you for all the time that you spent greeting people in the audience, and she was the last person in line. But what I also love about this story, which I don't believe you told on the podcast, is that you emailed her after you met her and you said it was a very powerful experience meeting you. And the best part about all of this is Sue thought that that was just something that you sent to each of your listeners. She didn't think that it was—

to everybody who came to the speech.

Oh yes, to everyone who came to the speech. Boy, is that A woman's way of thinking 101. I would so do that. I mentioned last episode, I cannot ever tell when someone is flirting with me. You basically have to hit me over the head with a sledgehammer and say, I am flirting with you through a bullhorn, and then maybe I will get it.

So you're— it may well be a male-female thing, but I will tell you, because it's really— again, we're being so open. To others that I feel so many similarities in our nature. So as successful as I was, luckily and happily, with, with girls/women when I was single, nevertheless, unless— I used to say, actually, I would say at your, at around your age, or until I got married, unless the woman actually writes down and puts on paper, 'I am interested in you.' I read no body language. I read nothing.

Oh, really? So you had the same problem that I had.

They needed to announce it in neon lights.

Boy, it's so interesting, Dennis, because again, I said this, but I think that— look, I don't mean it as a brag, but it's just true. I think both of us are remarkably clued into life in many other respects, right? But in this particularly crucial aspect of life, that's interesting that neither one of us really are.

Yeah, it is odd to me in retrospect that, but I do remember saying that. Oh really? I would say because a friend would say, you didn't realize, you know.

Oh, my friends say that to me all the time. They're like, are you an idiot?

Yeah, that's right. Duh.

He asked for your number. What do you think? He wants to send you a book recommendation?

Okay, if he asked for your number. I know.

I've learned that one.

That should have been a clue. I have to say. That's a level I didn't reach.

I know, I'm pretty bad. I have to tell you, I am pretty bad. I want to say one point before we move on from the secularism subject. You know, I think about this so much, especially as I'm entering into the conservative media space, and it's my job now to convince people that these values that we talk about all day are worth adopting and espousing. I do remember a time in my life where I really thought that religious people were simpletons. I was never as bad as the modern-day leftists. I was never a leftist. I was a liberal. And I was never a militant secularist. As I mentioned, I do know some religious people in my life and I have great respect for them. But I always had great respect for them. But I do remember a time where I thought to myself, If you so wholeheartedly adopt one ideology, that's a simpleton worldview. You're just embracing one way of thinking as truth, and you're not exposing yourself to other ways of thinking. I really, really do recall that time in my life, and boy, has that turned around. Now, when someone is religious, I don't think they're simpletons. I think, boy, how deep they must be, because I've read the Bible now, and I see just the layers and layers of meaning and wisdom. But sometimes I talk to my peers, or I would talk to my peers at Harvard about my— how I'm now an ethical monotheist. Again, I don't know theologically what I believe, but I do know for certain I am an ethical monotheist, meaning that I believe that the God of the Bible is the source of good and evil and that society should follow—

wants you to be good.

Absolutely. And I can just see out of all of the subjects, and I talk to people about a lot of subjects, police, abortion, transgenderism, when you you touch religion with them, it hits a certain nerve. People get very weirded out by religion. I know I've told you this story. I don't know if I've talked about it on air. When I was reading your Rational Bible Commentary at school, and just in the— I think it was in the dining hall, and there was a girl who came down and sat with me, and I was talking with her about it and how much it's influenced me, and she's Jewish. She seemed weirded out. And I asked her, you know, "What's the problem?" And she said to me, "I think it's very odd that you are taking to the Torah the way that you are. I think it's weird that you as a Christian are liking Dennis's Torah commentary so much." And I said, "Why?" And she said, "There are two types of antisemitism. On the one hand, there's blatant antisemitism, meaning hatred of Jews. And then on the other hand," she said, "there's philosemitism, meaning that you fetishize Jewish culture. That is an example of how weird people get with regard to religion, how they just— they think, they think that it's like a cult. Young people, I'm telling you, this is the button for young people. I mean, I know there are so many things.

Well, yeah, that's right, it is the button. It's not just young people, it's the button for the left.

Right.

That a Jew would say—

I know—

that philo-Semitism is a branch of anti-Semitism can— it is so contra-rational as to be pathological.

I know.

So for people who don't know, philo- is the opposite of anti-, means I love. So you'll hear if someone is a Francophile, they love French culture.

An Anglophile.

Anglophile, love English culture. So a Judeophile is love Jewish culture or even Jews and Jewish culture. How exactly is that a form of anti-Semitism?

Beyond me.

Well, she sort of defined it. They fetishize. What does that even mean? So I have a tiny inkling of what in her mind, because I know Jews so well, Oh, if you love us that much, you can turn on us on a dime. It's not rational, and so I don't fully trust it. Which reminds me, because I have, you know, I deal more in my life, even though I'm a religious Jew, with Christians than even with Jews, generally speaking. I work at Salem Radio. So many of my friends and colleagues and so many people, Prager, you are not Jewish, and so many are Christian. And it's a blessing in my life. But, uh, I do tell my evangelical Christian friends when they say, you know, I really love Jews, and I always say to them, more than I do. Since, look, since we, we uncovered the, the box, Pandora's box, so to speak, I I love Judaism. I love the Torah. I work on loving God. I, of course, I don't love all Jews. How do I love George Soros? Do I love Leon Trotsky? I mean, it's an absurdity.

It's like believe all women, right?

All, any of that. It doesn't make any sense. You know, if a Black says I, I, I love all Blacks, I go, what, you're out of your mind? And what does that even mean?

I don't judge people individually.

I don't love all everybody.

Of course.

So that's really what it is about, the line. It's just I put it in a provocative way that isn't necessary for publication, but that's her. I'm trying to give her the benefit of the doubt, right, what she might think. But it's— listen, if the Jews' biggest problem is philo-Semites, They're in good shape. Oh, you'll love this. I wonder if you ever heard me tell this story. So I defended the name Washington Redskins. That was the Washington football team.

Oh yes, that's right.

I saw nothing wrong with it. Absolutely still see nothing wrong with it. By the way, the vast majority of Native Americans see nothing wrong with it. The Washington Post, which was the leading advocate of changing the name, did a massive study of American Indians, Native Americans, Overwhelmingly, they couldn't care less about the name Washington Redskins. The whites at the Washington Post hated it. American Indians had no issue with it.

Latinx. No one in the Hispanic community.

Latinx. Oh my God. Exactly.

It's all concocted by white people. The ultimate irony.

When I first heard it, I thought it was a Latin tissue. It's like, oh, give me— I'll take a Latinx, please. I just sneezed. Yes, that's what I didn't— I had no idea what they were talking about. So, so we were talking— I was talking about this on the radio and this many years ago, a guy calls up, so, Dennis, let me ask you a question. You think Redskins is okay? What if a team were named the Jews? And I said, sir, you know, you know my response. Oh, you will love this because I'm proud of it because it was so spontaneous. I said, sir, Jews have been looking for fans for 3,200 years. That would be a great moment. Let's go Jews! I'm a Jews fan. We could use some.

You could use some, right? Look, back to this girl. To your point, there is, you know, 20% of me that understands where she's coming from. If there's one thing that Jews have faced, it's people turning on them in history. Okay, I get that. But my response to her, I said, first of all, I'm reading this Torah commentary, like, with all due respect, it's not because I want to understand Judaism specifically. This, the book of Genesis, is just as much my book as a Christian as it is your book as a Jew.

I think it's everybody's book.

Well, exactly.

And it's everyone's book.

The original reason why I started reading this book is because I thought historically it would be just something good for me to know. To be well-versed in the Bible. So that's number one. Number two, I said, given how much antisemitism there is in the world, don't you want someone like me who does have a reverence for the Torah? I mean, it—

Did she respond?

I mean, I really can't remember. I don't— I think she was silent. I wasn't, you know, I wasn't aggressive, but I was just trying to outline this point.

For a secular Jew on the left to see a Harvard non-Jew reading a Torah commentary and they get— is weird in some ways than seeing you read some antisemitic screed.

Wow, that is interesting.

It is interesting.

You're probably right about that.

Yes, you know, if you were reading, you know, the thoughts of Adolf Hitler on Jews, I understand that, right?

People would probably think it's assigned, yes, for a class reading or whatever, right? Right. But the Torah But, you know, that just imparted to me— it's such a button for people. And I remember I had a discussion with this girl later, and to her credit, she did apologize. And she said, I recognize that that was probably not a great reaction. And she said to me, look, Julie, I've just got to be honest with you. I find religion to be creepy. It creeps me out. I told you another story. God, I can't remember. Even I can't remember. I have a great memory.

If I told this to you on air or off air, it's scary to talk to you because I feel— oh yeah, you said that on April 17th.

At 4:58 PM. But I, this past semester, I started going to church pretty regularly. And sometimes I would just go in at night. The St. Paul's Church in Harvard Square is open 24 hours, so you can just go in and pray. And it was really, I just wish I had started doing that earlier because it was such a lovely centering experience for me anytime I went in. And so I came back to my dorm and I ran into one of my friends, a dear friend, and I told her, you know, I've started going to church and praying just on my own. And she said to me, she kind of made this line like, oh God, well, are you going to turn into one of those people in the South that, what do they do? They speak in tongue or they—

Yeah, talk in tongues.

Talk in tongues.

Yeah.

Like the spirit has entered them and they're speaking in gibberish. And I thought to myself, you know, what a sad reaction that is. I didn't, you know, I didn't get upset, I didn't get offended, but I sort of laughed it off. And then I was walking away and I thought, that's really sad that I'm coming to someone and I'm saying, this means a lot to me, I'm partaking in this religious exercise that I think is centering. And her response is, let's pick the, you know, minority of religious people who engage in this. I will admit, sort of bizarre behavior, and she's now applying it to me. But that's what people on the left do. They think that all religious people are crazy or unhinged, and it's, it's really sad. So I think about that a lot because, Dennis, I really want to carry on your message because I think you're absolutely right that what is happening in society now is really because of the militant secularism that we've adopted. But again, I think back to my old self who thought religious people were simpletons, and I think about all of the people I know my age for whom religion is a button, and I don't know how to convey to them how important it is without turning them off. So that's the—

That is the trick.

But they have— That's the struggle of my career.

Well, if they're not open to hearing or reading, right, us, then, then it's, it's a dilemma. That's why I'm, I'm very happy with PragerU. I mean, it's a breakthrough work with, with young people.

By the way, you mentioned this to me the other day, and I want to say it in conjunction with our conversation about Jews. The Daily Wire, run by a religious Jew. PragerU, run by a religious Jew. How interesting is that?

So I'll end with a very touching story. I would tell you the Czech, uh, the Czech story.

No.

Oh, good, good. I'm always happy when I have something you haven't heard for me to say, heard me say. So a, uh, a little over a year ago, Sue and I were in Eastern Europe. I, I was giving some talks in Hungary and Czech and Czech Republic. So in the Czech Republic, I was with a group of of people all in their 20s, and it was a really wonderful evening. I mean, to think that, you know, all these young people in the Czech Republic knew me, it was very— it was a wonderful feeling.

I bet.

So, uh, one of them came over to me after the dinner, and everyone could hear what he said. And he said, I just want you to know Ben Shapiro brought me to conservatism and you brought me to God. And I have the chills, I do. I just got the chills telling you this because it meant the world to me. And I said to him, after everybody applauded, or, you know, they were all moved by this, and I said, just remember it was two Jews, because he was Christian. Yeah, it was two Jews who did this, and they all found that very significant. It is significant. It is when everybody talks about the Jews on the left, and it is a tragedy for the, for the world, the Jews on the left. It just is. But not all Jews are, and Jews are disproportionately fighting the left and, and fighting for taking God seriously. Right, and, and, and the, and the good values of life. So you're right, Toure. So I'll just tell you, I, I, just a few weeks ago I was in Nashville for The Daily Wire. They had, they had 3,000 people. It was a huge, huge, wonderful evening.

The crowd went crazy. I'm sorry to interrupt you, but I have to say, that crowd went crazy when all of you came on. Not just you, but when Candace came on and Ben. And it shows you that people—

oh, there was passion. It was such passion.

It means a lot to people to have figures like you. Go on.

So when it was my turn, you know, Ben called me out and there's a wonderful reception and we're both sitting on stage and I told him this story. He had never heard it from me. And then I said, I just got to say though, I was a little annoyed I didn't bring you to conservatism. Everybody cracked up. Even Ben, who's not known for cracking up.

That's true. He's very serious.

Yes. I think he He's sort of like Alan.

Oh my God, I was just about to say that. He reminds me of Alan Epstein.

I have these very serious guys in my life.

I know, and you're a jokester.

Yes, exactly.

You should see people, what he does before and after shows. He's a total jokester. Poor Sean. Sean is the recipient.

Sean, no. Sean is inoculated. You're a what? You're also a jokester? I didn't know that. That was a joke. See, that was a joke that I didn't know you were a jokester. God, he fell in. I got him. I could still feel the ability to say things with a—

oh, you're right, the Sanskrit for flaw finder. And my— right, you know, I went home and told my dad that with a straight face, like the idiot I am.

No, it's not.

So I don't know if people are flirting with me, and I don't know when people are joking with me. Those are my two, uh, right, your two flaws.

You're doing pretty well. How do people reach you, Julie? And let's wrap this.

Yep, you can go on my website julie-hartman.com, and there you will see an email which is julie@julie-hartman.com. I cannot promise you that I will respond to your mail because I just get so much mail, which is a blessing, but I read everything and I— yes, very much appreciate it. It matters, all of the messages.

Thank you for your openness.

Thank you for yours, and thank you for listening. We'll see you soon.

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