Dennis & Julie: Gam Zeh Ya’avor

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Hey there, Dennis Prager and Julie Hartman. Dennis and Julie.

Shalom.

Oh boy.

Auf Wiedersehen. Hello.

So here's my theory. There are as many female characters as male characters.

I knew you were going to say something about characters.

Well, because you're a character. Which is, by the way, just for the record, you cannot become one. There are no trans characters.

Transgender characters?

No, no. Trans characters. If you're not a character, you cannot. There is no medication, no surgery possible to become a character if you're not one.

Is that true of any other quality? Is there something else that you have to be born with?

It's an interesting question.

Well, I certainly like athletic ability. Yeah, extraordinary.

Right, right. But you have to work at that. You don't have to work at being a character. It's so natural. I'm a character. You're a character. My— let's see, my dad was a character.

Is Sue?

No. Oh, Sue. Sue, a character.

I know Sue so well, but I— so it's interesting that I even asked.

Sue, first of all, she's a wonderful laugh and a wonderful— oh, oh no, that has nothing to do with it.

You're right, you know, you're right.

Yeah, but she's not a character. The, uh, there's a rule, Jules, and that is characters marry non-characters and vice versa.

Yes.

So the odds of your husband, that lucky, lucky, lucky man-to-be, will be a character— the odds are very low.

But I also want someone who's fun and interesting.

Well, that's my wife. She's fun and interesting. Yes, true, but except when we drive.

Really?

Oh, I didn't— come on, you know my theory. She turns into Mr. Hyde or Ms. Hyde.

No, I don't.

I've never used it in that case. Almost every man thinks that.

She nudges you? She talks to you about how to drive better? Is that it?

That is when the Sanskrit comes into play.

My dad quoted you so much on the trip we were on.

I told the story of your parents.

Oh my gosh.

And the Sanskrit.

He said one time we were in the airport, and my dad is a typical man/dad in the airport. Like, we have to be 3 hours at a minimum early. God forbid we're not, you know, first in line at the gate. We— he always has the tickets out. He's like, everyone walks by, he's like, Sky Priority, Sky Priority! He's so, you know, he gets so anxious. And my mom, I guess, dropped her passport or something, but she picked it right up. And my dad got so anxious, and he said— and otherwise he's a very chill guy, but when he entered, when he steps into an airport, all the chillness goes away. He turns into a nervous wreck. And he said, Women were brought on Earth to terrorize men.

Oh, that's not my Sanskrit line. I know, but it's related. It's a cousin.

Yes, it's a cousin.

Tell the story though, and then I have a lot of stuff I want to ask you and talk about. But you got to tell people how your parents reacted so differently to my ridiculous line on the radio. That wife in Sanskrit is she who finds flaws in her husband.

Yes. The story is when I was first started working for Dennis about 2 years ago, we were in his library at his home, which has what, 6,000 books? Of course, I'm the reader. I'm loving it, going through. And we were looking at a book on language, and Dennis looks at me, and I didn't know you very well, so everything you said— and I still hang on to a lot of things that you say because you're so full of wisdom, but especially in those early days, everything that you said, I was Thinking, oh my God, Dennis Prager said this, I have to remember that. And you look at me totally dead serious and look at the camera and he goes, you know that wife is Sanskrit for flaw finder? And I'm like, oh, Dennis Prager knows so much language, you know, filing that away. I go home that night, sitting at dinner with my parents, you know, what did you learn from your second day at work? I go, oh, we were talking about language. He told me that wife is Sanskrit for flaw finder. And my mom is nodding and my dad just starts cracking up.

I love it.

You know, another difference between my parents, um, with regard to our work—

wait, I just want to make that clear to everybody. Your dad immediately—

yes, my dad knew it was a joke, and your mother thought, really? Oh yeah, I thought—

right, okay.

Yeah, because Dennis has this trick where he says something, right, absurd, absurd, in a dead serious look and tone. Another thing I know we've also said this on the air before, but I think it's so funny. My mom was convinced for a time that you hated Sean.

Oh, is that— that is precious. Sean remains convinced of it.

And my mom said to me one time, she goes, Dennis seems like— and, you know, she's met you, so she knows— Dennis is such a nice person, and he, you know, exudes that on the air, but God, he's so mean to Sean. And, and my mom goes, and I know how much you love Sean. Why does Dennis not like him?

Because I love being mean to Sean. It, it's invigorating.

Fun.

Because we're both characters. That's exactly right. Well said, Sean. So you just came back from Europe.

I did.

Let me, let me just say this because, you know, I always like the big picture. That's how I think. You're having a good life.

Oh, I know. Trust me, it's not lost on me.

I know you know. It's— I'm not bringing news to you. I just thought I'd say it though, and I want you to know how happy I am.

Well, thank you. Thank you. It's, it's true. Um, I'm— I feel very blessed. But I'll say this, there are times when I feel guilty because I go, my gosh, I have this, you know, I get to talk with Dennis Prager every week and obviously more off the air. But, you know, we have the show together and I get to explore all these interesting topics on my own show. And then for a week, you know, I just went and traveled and sometimes I will feel guilty. But I was thinking this literally yesterday night on the plane. I thought, you know, Julie, you appreciate it and you don't waste a second. And that's, and that's true. I don't, I don't mean that as a, um, as a self-aggrandizing comment. It's something that comes naturally to me because I love exploring, I love learning. But I also, you know, when I was in Berlin, every second of the day I was, I was aware you only have a limited time here. You're really lucky to be here. Go learn.

For the record, I, I feel a bond with Julie, which I think everybody knows. You don't even have to react. But, but I, it's, to, to meet somebody that you feel you are so similar to, in the best sense of the term. So I just— you'll get a kick out of this about the wasting time. Did I ever tell you the paper I wrote? We used to call them compositions.

I know you told me that. That's so cute.

In my sophomore year in high school, I wrote a paper titled 'I Want to Prove George Bernard Shaw Wrong.' George Bernard Shaw had said— I had just learned this from somehow or other— it's too bad youth is wasted on the young.

Yes, yes.

And I wrote a paper, I want to prove Shaw wrong. I will not allow youth to be wasted on me. I, I will— I won't waste my youth.

Well, this is, I mean, typical Dennis and Julie. There are so many avenues of discussion that we could and will go down. But, but one of them is that I used to have this conflict, especially about a year ago, right when I graduated from college, where I thought, I know that I have a really extraordinary, especially professional opportunity, but am I— I'm not, I'm not living like a young 23-year-old. You know, I'm not— a lot of my friends who live in New York, they go out and they, they drink and they go to the clubs. And I— and it's not that I, you stay at home in a nun outfit and go through my scriptures every day. You know, it's not like I'm living like an 80-year-old in the convent, but I'm certainly not living a typical conventional postgraduate life. And it didn't take long for me to kind of work that out because that quote, even though I didn't think of it at the time, it was exactly kind of what I was thinking.

I knew that. That's why I thought I would tell you the story.

I hope and think it will pay dividends later in my life, soaking up all of this wisdom and knowledge now. Not to mention it's fun. Oh, can I make one other point? I just really—

Maybe two.

Maybe two and a half if we have the time. I do have a very blessed life right now, but I don't want people to think it's always been an easy life. I've been very lucky and blessed, but I'm very aware of the fact that someone may look at me in my position and have certain assumptions. And I'm certainly not about to pull out the violin and say that it's been, you know, I've had this awful— but I've had a lot of very dark chapters and challenges. So I want people to know that.

It's interesting because I speak a lot about happiness. I wrote a book on happiness, which both are, I'm sure, known to most people watching or listening. And I have no doubt And I'm saying this because I so resonate with your, your felt need to say what you just said. And I have no doubt it would— there's nothing wrong with it. It's, it's actually a normal reaction to look at my life and think, wow, you know, this guy's got such an easy life. But the same, the same holds for me. And including my early childhood, which was not happy. I became happy. I wish I could actually, you know, that I theoretically could give you the date I came, I became happy and I was 14 years old. I don't know the date, but I know on literally that day to today I've been happy.

What was it again? You've told this.

Well, I, I needed my parents to leave me alone. You know, Sean plays Let Dennis Be Dennis the third hour of my Friday show because that's the hour people call in on anything. And he didn't realize this when he did this Let Dennis Be Dennis, but that is what I needed. That's why it's very hard to raise children properly.

Let Dennis Be Dennis.

Yeah, that's what he plays. So The— it's very hard to raise children correctly. I was a parent and I feel for it. I feel for my parents. I needed to be left alone. Some kids you leave alone, they go, they go into the dark, into it, and they, they, they wander. They don't know where they're going.

Yes. Yep.

But I was the opposite. I just needed to be left. I basically needed room and board. In fact, when I met Joseph Telushkin, my dear friend to this day, at the age of 15, a junior in high school or a sophomore in high school— yeah, sophomore in high school— and I, I said to him, and he remembers this, he's reminded me of it, Joseph, I have the best situation. I dorm in my parents' house. That is how I looked at it, because as you know, And I may have mentioned this here, which is a completely weird story, I admit it now, but my parents went along with it because they made a deal with me. We're leaving you alone. I said so much so I don't want to eat dinner at home.

Wow.

Did you— you didn't know this?

No, I vaguely remember you went to Joseph's every Wednesday, right?

Oh no, no, no, that's, that's another story. I went to Manhattan Monday night, Tuesday night, Wednesday night, Thursday night. I lived in Brooklyn, and I went to bookstores mostly, but every other possible thing. I just went crazy with the culture of New York and the wildness of New York in some ways. I just— I admit I loved it then. I came not to like New York, but I loved it in high school. And I— people hear that and they think, what, you didn't eat in your parents' house from the second year in high school? Well, we did on weekends. My Sabbath, as you know, that, that, that was sacrosanct. And Sunday I didn't go anywhere. But that's true. And to their credit, they gave me money to eat out 4 nights a week.

So a few questions. First, when you say that you needed them to leave you alone.

Yeah.

What were they doing?

They were, they were really, really hard on me to get good grades, for example. Oh, and I had no desire to do schoolwork.

Did you say, look, I don't care about school, but I want you to know I'm teaching myself Russian, I'm going to the symphony, I'm learning, I'm not going in.

Okay, so I have total sympathy for them. You got to admit it is a weird child.

It is.

I have a lot of sympathy for them. I won't do any homework for 4 years of high school. On the other hand, I am teaching myself Russian. My hobby is shortwave radio to listen to the world. I'm teaching myself how to conduct symphonies at the New York Philharmonic Library. I mean, what kind of normal—

They must have looked at you and said, what the heck?

My father said he spoke to God every night when he went to bed, and I believe that. My father had a very much closer bond to God than I do. He didn't believe in him more, but a closer bond. I, so I was, I don't speak to God much, but he did. And he said to me afterwards, God, tell me what to do about Dennis Prager. Oh, that's, that's what he would say. So back to the origins here. We got onto this tangent because you stated people shouldn't think because your life is so blessed, it's just been this, uh, walk in the park for you. I know what I mean. Just, just very briefly mention your sister.

Yes, yes, I have a severely autistic— severely, I mean, really severely.

We have an autistic stepson. I have an autistic stepson, my wife's older son, and of course he lives with us. He can't live on his own. But utterly different from your situation, as you know, he is as easy a human being to have in your home as a human can get. Do I wish, you know, I had a home just with my wife and myself? Of course I do. But if the quote-unquote price I paid to have my wife Sue was to have a child live with us forever, I gladly play poker.

And especially that child, as you said, he's really—

If you're gonna have an autistic child, he's as easy as it gets.

And he's a joy.

Yeah.

He's very funny.

Yes.

And you know, also, right now is a good time in life, and I recognize that, and I really don't take it for granted. But I also, I was actually talking with your wife, speaking of your wife, about this recently. I also know that it's, I mean, I'm knocking wood because I hope it stays this way, but I also know that it's probably not going to be like this forever. I'm 23 years old. There are going to be chapters ahead that are going to be very dark.

That's right.

I pray not, but I know that they're coming. So I'm appreciating now when things are good.

Do you know about King Solomon's ring?

No.

King Solomon, it's a legend, but it's a brilliant legend. He asked his wise men for a magic ring. What did he want this magic ring to do? To lift him when he was down and to bring him back down if he got too ecstatic or too high. So they came back with the magic ring, and on it were 3 Hebrew words: Gam zu yavo. This too shall pass.

Oh yes, yes, my friend told me about this.

It's brilliant.

Oh my gosh, yes, very moving story.

I, I just literally lived through this. I got spectacularly good news this past week you don't even know about. It's a separate issue.

Are you going to tell it?

No, and because I don't know if it'll develop, and it's, it's, it's very— it's a sensitive issue. But of course one day I'll mention it, but it doesn't matter. The point is I got great news and then the next day I got awful news. And I— because, because of controversy that you're aware of. Oh, okay. So I, I wasn't ecstatic on day one and I wasn't depressed on day two.

I believe that knowing your nature.

That's right. And I— but that I have trained myself. I take credit for that because I wear King Solomon's ring. I know this too shall pass. The bad shall pass and the good shall pass.

The good times never last and the bad times never last.

Right. That's the nature of life. That's why this story is powerful.

Speaking of good times and bad times coming and going, I'd like to talk a bit about Berlin. And boy, that city. Talk about, again, bad times coming, good times coming.

Did you go through Checkpoint Charlie?

I did. And I thought of you.

Yes, I went through the real Checkpoint Charlie.

That is amazing to me. Well, that makes sense because there's Alpha, Bravo, and Checkpoint Charlie, and then there were several other checkpoints. This is, we're talking about between West and East Berlin during the partition.

Right, so let me just give people a 30-second history lesson.

Yes.

Germany was divided after World War II, theoretically 4 zones: French, British, US, and Russian or Soviet, but basically US or Western and Soviet. The Soviet zone became East Germany. It was a police state like all communist states. However, Berlin was also divided, but Berlin is located— was located in East Germany. So if you went from If you went from West Berlin to East Berlin, you went from West Germany to East Germany.

Yes.

And you went, you, you, and I did that with, in a rental car. You, you, you know that they put mirrors under my car when I returned, when I left East Berlin, the East German police put mirrors under my car to see if I was smuggling a German out.

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Yeah, yeah, mention one.

Blew my mind. Before I do, and I have a very specific one, but that— I didn't know. I didn't know that. You didn't tell me that about the mirrors.

Yes.

That must have been so haunting for you.

I just got chilled thinking about it.

You must have felt so guilty going from one, you know, driving into freedom.

Julie, it cracks me up that you have no idea, because I went communist countries, free countries, over and over and over. That was my preoccupation and my studies. When I left the Soviet Union when I was 21, the Israeli government sent me in to smuggle in Jewish items and smuggle out Jewish names. I was there for a month, flying back on Pan Am, the old Pan American airline. I sat— it was a pretty empty plane, I remember, so I had two seats next to me empty. I sat at the window and I cried, and I cried for that reason. Well, many reasons, but I had this little, then gray, passport. I thought I could leave there and go to freedom because I have this little booklet. That's, that's the difference. That's the whole difference. So it was a month of tension that finally erupted, and I was, I was weeping at the window. And I'll never forget, we called them stewardesses then. Young Pan Am stewardess taps me on the shoulder and she said, is it, is there anything I can help you with? Did you just break up with a girlfriend?

Oh, sorry, I have to laugh.

Why?

Because she's hitting on you.

I didn't realize it.

Here's this moment.

I know.

So can I do anything? Can I get you a little Coke, a little water, or me? You just broke up.

You know, I never realized it until you just mentioned it.

Well, that's so me. That was a Julie moment and you didn't even— I wasn't even alive then. I don't know when people are hitting on me.

Yes, no, that's what I'm saying.

If you slapped me across the face and yelled, I'm hitting on you, I wouldn't know.

A woman would have had to have a sign, dear sir, I am hitting on you, for me to believe it.

You were that way too?

Oh, totally.

What? I never knew that.

I know.

I thought you were very at ease with dating and— at ease is the wrong word.

No, no, no.

Knowing.

Yes.

Oh gosh, we're so similar in so many ways, but that is me, trust me.

I didn't realize till now, till I told you the story, that that's—

well, no offense, that's pretty obvious. Oh, did you— can I do anything? Did you just break up with a girl? Hi, I'm the stewardess.

Damn, why didn't I say yes? Now I'm annoyed.

I've had moments like that. I've had moments.

Actually, I remember what I said. Okay, I said that it's very kind of you. No. But it, it would be very hard to explain because I thought of all the, the people in a Soviet— the Soviet Union was a prison, and I was just leaving. I mean, what was I going to say to her? I just left the Soviet Union.

I, I know.

And you have no idea what's going on there.

I'll tell you one of the stories that I learned, which made me cry immediately on the spot, but I had a similar experience in Cambodia, and I want people— we, I mean, people realize this, but I just want to hammer it home that yes, it was especially stark in the Soviet, during the time of the Soviet Union, and for you when you were country hopping, if you will. But this, I mean, there are so many people today who are in destitute situations, and we can just fly in and fly out.

That's right.

And when I was in Cambodia, in 2018. So I was 18 years old, right before I went to college, like a few months before. We went to one of the boat villages, which is just— it's so sad because these people are in such poverty. I'm sorry, I thought maybe you needed to cough. These people are living in such poverty and they're literally living in the water and they make these like huts and shacks and like little islands and they row over to them because Cambodia is very muddy and swampy. We went into one of the boat villages, and here we are, these Americans, you know, getting on the boat, looking at people's lives. And I felt, I felt odd about it, you know. I felt like I was like in a zoo. I felt like I had like binoculars, and I, and I didn't. And I was also very aware— and by the way, this is a Dennis and Julie subject onto its own, and I'm actually going to take a second, forgive me, to write it down because I think it's that important— pictures.

I have a lot to say.

I have so much to say about photography. Yeah, well, yes. I mean, even when I was in Berlin, do I smile standing in front of the Reichstag? Do I smile standing in front of the remnants of the wall? You know, and here we have these people with the selfie sticks. And then when I was in Cambodia, here I am in the boat villages, and I felt that it wasn't right to take photos because it felt like this is your— you can bleep me, Sean— this is your shitty life, you know, snap, snap, snap. That's my vacation photo. It felt wrong. But anyway, we got off the boat back to the bus that was taking us back to the hotel. And these women were handing out these plates. They had taken our photo as we were getting off the bus. And just us, like, just, we didn't obviously realize we were being photographed. And I guess in the time that we were on the boat, they superimposed our photo onto a plate with like, Khmer architecture in the background. It was just a little souvenir with your face on it. And they were handing it to us and we started laughing because my family, because, you know, there's a photo of me and I'm getting off the bus and my face is all contorted because I didn't realize I was being photographed. And they're handing it to us and they're begging us to buy it. And then after I laughed for about 10 seconds looking at my face, I paused and I realized this is so sad. These people are so, so desperate. They are shoving this thing in my face. They're trying to make something funny or a souvenir for me. And here I am gonna go into the bus, go back to the hotel, get on a plane, go back to America. They have never seen such a resplendent place as America. And then I'm gonna go to Harvard in 3 months. I felt, I, I felt so guilty.

Anyway, I, I so know what you're talking about cuz I've been all over the world. That is part of the reason I loathe the left.

Yes. Oh gosh.

Because they're ingrates.

I was thinking I should read to you portions of my journal from Berlin. And I was standing at places and I wrote like, the audacity, the sick, deranged audacity to hate the United States. These, sorry, you can see I'm getting really heated up because I really felt this. These effers. On the US women's soccer team, like Megan Rapinoe, by the way, great. I loved when she kicked the penalty over. I loved when they lost. I'm sorry.

In Europe, I just want to tell you, I announced the first time in my life I rooted against an American team.

I was so happy.

I was thrilled.

Those efforts. And you see there, the camera is panning to them and they will not sing the national anthem. Shame on them. Shame on them. They should not play. They should. They should. Be kicked off the field, never allowed to represent the United States. They should have to move to another country and not have their citizenship here. Screw them. God, it made me so upset. I was thinking that the entire trip.

I was never as pro-Swedish since the lockdowns when I was very pro-Swedish.

I know.

Because they didn't lock down.

And here we— when I heard the stories, which I'm about to tell you one of them, of what people had to endure in East Berlin, and these effers will not sing the national anthem.

That's right.

They are the— it's evil. It's evil.

You know, it's very interesting because I— do you know the ignorance you have to be immersed in in order to believe human nature is basically good? And then I realized you were at the debate where I had a debate with this.

Oh yes, I was.

This is Beverly Hills rabbi who said people are basically good, and it drove me crazy, so I debated him. Debated him. And of course, he thinks people are basically good because the man lives in America and in Beverly Hills.

Exactly.

He has this— of course you think golden life that this percentage of humanity has.

People think of homes, cars, jewelry, vacations, certain items as luxuries, but they don't think of ideologies as being luxuries. Leftism as an ideology is such a privileged position to hold. That's one of the great ironies of the left. We talk often about how everything is inverted. They talk all about privilege, male privilege, white privilege, hetero privilege, et cetera, et cetera. The biggest privilege in the world is being an American. They never talk about American privilege. And the greatest privilege is to be a leftist and not have to actually face the consequences of your positions. I now see leftism through a totally different lens than I saw it in the past. I saw it once as irrational. No, it's spoiled. Leftism is spoiled brat syndrome. And I tell you what you just said a few moments ago, I was feeling that all of the time when I was in Berlin, especially.

Julie gets it. That's correct. I, you know, it's, it's not a direct result, but it's apropos. I think of all of these DEI administrators on campuses, you know, there are now more administrators than students at Stanford.

I think at Harvard, actually.

And I think at Harvard too. And way more than faculty. I mean, like 4 times more than faculty, but more than students. And I realized basically these people are talentless, empty.

Yep.

Nothing.

You're right.

Who make $100,000 average.

Yep.

They, they have a vested interest in crapping on America, in furthering a totalitarian universe at their university. That's what they're paid to do. They're paid to complain. It is. It's unique in human history.

You know, people probably watching the show think that you and I spend so much time talking about leftism and they would think that it's, It's a given because we're conservative. I want people to understand that this is not our— my, at least, and I know for you too, my disdain of leftism actually has nothing to do with politics. It's a moral divide more than a political divide.

100%.

It's about— and this is your whole paradigm of your past 40 years of being on the radio. It's about evil, honestly. It is evil. Evil to tear down and want to destroy the United States of America. It is evil to say—

and the West.

And the West. It is evil to say that children can get their breasts mutilated. It is evil to say that, that the police should be defunded. I really do believe it is evil because the people who are going to suffer from it most are not the ones behind gates or with door— living in dorm buildings. It is evil to not talk about or to give a pass to communist China because it's communist China. I don't know, I get internet comments and I read them like you, saying, well, of course you're going to hate the left because you love conservative. Those people don't get it. I am far more concerned with values than with, who cares about liberal versus conservative tax policy? That is nothing that animates my interest, zero. It's about defending what is right and what is good. And leftism is in every way fundamentally opposed to that.

I have nothing to add.

May I tell you the story?

I thank God you exist.

Oh, well, you know how reciprocated that sentiment is. So allow me to tell you one of the stories that I learned about East Berlin. And as Dennis said, but I just want to reiterate, Berlin is in East Germany, and so the wall around West Berlin made West Berlin, which was controlled by the Allies, the West, an island in East Germany. And the reason why they put the walls around West Berlin from 1961 to 1989 is because so many people in East Berlin and in the surrounding territory—

But it was the East who put the walls up.

Yes.

I just want to make that clear.

Yes, yes. No, that's—

Yeah.

Thank you for intervening. I didn't make that clear. The Soviets who were controlling East Berlin, East Germany, put the wall, but they built it around West Berlin, right? Because they wanted— it wasn't so much to enclose West Berliners because West Berliners could travel. It was to enclose East Berliners who were escaping to West Berlin because it was— West Berlin was free. And so I was talking with someone who grew up in West Berlin, so in freedom, but his aunt grew— and cousins grew up in, in, in East Berlin. Did I say he grew up in West Berlin? Okay, sorry, it's hard sometimes getting the details straight. But, and he said growing up he would go into East Berlin because he was allowed to do that, to visit his family and go back. They could not visit him. And they brought them, and they knew it was dangerous, but his, his cousins and aunt in East Berlin really wanted to watch West Berlin television. By the way, let's pause for a moment. There are so many freedoms that we don't consider to be freedoms that when you're reminded of it, you just cannot help but be so humbled. I mean, the fact that you can only— when we turn on our television here in America, we don't think of that as a freedom. We just think, oh, we're watching our television. In Russia, in China, in the Middle East, you can only watch 1 or 2 state-approved channels. It is a luxury to be able to have such access to content. Let's just, I mean, again, we don't think about that, but it is. So they smuggled in a TV, a West Berlin TV to East Berlin so that his family could watch it. And then he said they had to turn the volume down really low because they didn't want other people in the apartment building, here again, pause, like, can you imagine that? Can you imagine you're watching TV and you have to be cautious of how high your volume is? We're so lucky in every way. And so apparently the East Berlin government, the Soviets, had suspected because the family was coming so often that there was some funny business going on. And this man's cousin, who at the time was 6 years old, went to school that day in East Berlin, and the Soviets pulled this little boy into a room and gave him a piece of paper and said, do you watch TV? Little boy, and he said yes. And he goes, they go, okay, draw the man that you see on the screen. So he drew a little stick figure. You know, draw the background. So he drew whatever the background was. And then they said, draw the clock. And he drew a square. And that's when they knew that they were watching smuggled in West Berlin TV because in West Berlin, the clock was square. In East Berlin on the TV, the clock was a circle. The boy goes home from school. The next day, the Soviets come into the person's, to the aunt's home.

Well, the East German police.

The East German police, yes. And say, and show that drawing to the mother and say, have you been watching West Berlin TV? And she totally admits to it. And they go, we'll be seeing you very soon. They leave. The woman is followed, stalked, harassed for the next 10 years. Men with guns around her all the time. And they decided, the East German government, that her 6-year-old son would never go to college because of that drawing. The East German government, the Soviets, it was not a merit-based system. It was a, they just, if they liked the color of your hair, you can go to college. If they They liked your shoes, you can go. They didn't like your shoes, you won't go. They, they was so arbitrary and evil. And because that boy drew that photo, they said, you'll never go to college. Your, your son will never go to college. And he never did. Do you know how evil? I mean, of course you do. I'm just saying, do you know how evil that is?

Well, they told you what you would do for a living in communist countries. In most of them, you had a certain talent, but you had no desire to do it. That's what you did. You— the— what— this is the key. Lifetime of study of this. In communism, the individual is nothing.

Yes, yes.

In the United States, the individual was everything. The left likes communism, hates capitalism, hates the liberty inherent in the United States. The individual is nothing. The race is everything. The only difference between the left in America and the communists was communists dehumanized people based on class.

Yes.

The American left dehumanizes people based on race. Mm-hmm.

Spencer Klaven has a really good explanation of what you just said in his book, How to Save the West. And he said, you know, Marxism fundamentally sees the world through a working class struggle that has to be overcome. In the United States, we have, it's dwindling, it's a project of the left to destroy the middle class, but we have had such a robust middle class that that class-based revolution was not possible. So precisely what American leftists have done is that they have replaced class for race.

Right, but the key is you are useless.

Yes.

The individual is nothing. You know, my old motto, the bigger the government, the smaller the citizen. That's communism. And liberalism tragically morphs into leftism because of its support for ever-growing government. The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen. There is no exception to that on Earth. As government grows, you become less significant.

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Need— what does state power mean? Yes, that's all it was. Uh, I— it's interesting, I liked Berlin before you were born. I— it was a, a very lively center of liberty in an island. Yes, West Berlin. And now I find it dark and depressing.

It's so interesting that you say that because I, I, I'm really glad I went. I think it was, it may have been one of the more formative experiences of my life. And there's nothing like really understanding the history as, as being there. But I thought it was dark and heavy.

Heavy.

There was a heaviness. And, and, and this leads me to another revelation or idea I had while being there. East Berlin is where we spent the most time. Our hotel was in East Berlin, and I just wanted— because I've, you know, I wanted to see the places that were formerly communist because I don't have the opportunity, thankfully, to see many of them.

And you might.

I might. I hope I do.

No, no, no, I meant it in a dark way.

Oh, oh, I thought you meant you could— you might be able to go travel more. Yeah. Well, you go into East Berlin and there are these prefabricated buildings. You know, it looks different now, but you see remnants of what it was. Prefabricated, dreary-looking buildings, these Soviet realist murals of like the perfect worker and the perfect school child. It was like creepy. And I had a thought. It is a blessing to live in a place that doesn't have the heavy cloud of history as Berlin. Berlin now, East Berlin as well as West Berlin, is very tolerant. It's a pleasant place as far as, you know, your liberty, your freedoms to live. People have a lot of fun in East Berlin. East Berlin's like the club capital of the world. But I just, I felt so grateful that I didn't live in one of those buildings because it just, you know that it was the site of so much evil. And even if you—

You mean both Nazi and communist, right?

Yes, Nazi and communist. But obviously, you know, everywhere, anywhere you live in the world, there's been evil, there's been, you know, historical injustices, etc. But even if you think about Harlem in the United States, Harlem is a dreary place. I can imagine it is not a fun place to live, but it doesn't have that heavy cloud of such a dark, dark history.

Well, actually, it can be a fun place to live. So I have a great Harlem story for you.

You.

You— I know you will love this. So do you know that when I was, see, 20, 21 years old or 22 years old, they had the World Youth Assembly? You don't know this, right?

Yes, I do. Oh yes. Oh, the— you, you told this in Dennis and Julie, the, the, the Communists going to Harlem, seeing the Black— the way Black people live.

So whenever I hear Harlem, I go, wait a minute, Yes. To somebody from the Soviet Union, Harlem was heaven.

Yes. Would you like to quickly retell?

Well, it was a great— so in 1970, I was 21. So in 1970, they give you an idea. You can appreciate this, how early I had a great life. I was a delegate to the World Youth Assembly. Every country on earth had 5 delegates. We took over the UN, the Security Council, the General Assembly, the interpreters, every exact same thing. They never had it since because it was a farce. And I was with an NGO, a non-governmental organization, so B'nai B'rith, World Jewry. So I was the one of the two Jewish delegates, as it were. But anyway, So I was there and I remember the Soviet delegation who were all over 40 at the World Youth Assembly cracked me up. And they said, we want to bring everybody to Harlem to see the oppressed black people of America live. So they chartered buses and took all these third world delegates to Harlem. And then they complained at a press conference, we were lied to, we were not brought to Harlem. They had cars and their own houses. This was not Harlem.

You told that on Dennis and Julie and it was—

Isn't that great?

It's revelatory, you know, and certainly that's not to romanticize, you know, the many bad parts of living in Harlem, but we, the most oppressed American lives in luxury compared to a great majority of the rest of the world. That is, that is true.

That's right.

That is, that is, that is true.

But well, the rest of the world wants to move here. I don't know how many Americans who are quote unquote oppressed want to move there.

Right. And by the way, a quick note on Harlem. I mean, I read a lot of Tom Sowell. Tom Sowell grew up in Harlem and he talked about how it was very safe when he was growing up and he would sleep on the fire escape. But as depressing as parts of East Berlin were, they were made more depressing by the history. It wasn't just the bad neighborhoods, it was the, as I say, the heavy cloud of knowing that such unspeakable evil was there. That's not true of even the most destitute neighborhoods in the United States. No, of course. There's not that history. Oh yes, I was literally right there. I know exactly where that is. That's the wall.

I pray I can find the pictures I took of the wall.

Oh, you gotta look.

With East German soldiers marching on the other side. One night I went, I climbed up these series of stairways. I, I'm chilled by it because it was, it was so scary and eerie. And it was quiet like a morgue. It was about midnight. I was alone, and I was looking down at East German soldiers marching back and forth to shoot any East German who tried to get over. And all you had were a series of floodlights to illuminate the area in case someone tried to escape. To West Berlin, and I took pictures with the floodlights. And you know, I know photography. They were— and you, if, if I can find those pictures, you will be as close as a human can get to the eeriness of the Berlin Wall.

Oh, you gotta find them.

Yes, I have to find them.

So why did you go? I know why you went into the Soviet Union. Why did you go into East Berlin?

Well, first again, there are two reasons. They're very simple. I was studying communism. Communism was the enemy in the Cold War. I wanted to know it. That's why I learned Russian. But the biggest reason, and you will relate to this, I wanted to know evil. And the evil of my time, then I was born after Nazism, but the evil of my time was communism. And I, I'm preoccupied with evil, and that's gotten me into a little trouble because I'm not prepared to call everything that is wrong evil. There are sins that may not be evil, and I, I think if you know evil, you don't use the word loosely.

Interestingly, I don't hear many people saying the word evil besides you and conservatives. When I was in college and in high school, I rarely heard that word. That would be an interesting thing to explore on another— I think it's because—

Or even good.

Well, good is thrown around loosely.

No, what's thrown around is, oh, it's progressive. Oh, it's tolerant, right? It's accepting.

That's really true.

Diverse.

Gosh, that's another—

there's a whole series of adjectives, but not good.

We should— I'm writing this down because we should discuss the death of good and evil. Yes, the— and, and the words, yes, that have come to replace them.

By the way, I will tell you, even among many religious people, it's not used that much. You know what I have said all of my life, and you know I'm pro-religion, obviously big advocate But I've said, uh, God wants us to be good is about as unpopular a phrase as you can utter, because the irreligious don't think you need God, and the religious don't emphasize good. They may emphasize salvation or ritual or sacred or holy or a million other words. The idea, which is my central belief of life: God wants us to be good.

It's amazing how uncontroversial that statement is, right? But it's so— it's also the most controversial statement in modern life.

Yeah.

And so again, I, I feel a little bit like I'm going on and on and on, but I, I don't mind. I feel like I just got shot out of a cannon.

Yeah, I think it's great.

And by the way, I feel like I'm on such a high because I, I feel like I understand the world better.

You do.

And that's a really— it's a really good feeling, although it's wrapped up with a lot of sadness.

Yes, of course.

Speak on this note of, of what you just said about God. It made me think, when I was there, I told you all, all of these things that I realized that we don't perceive as freedoms are freedoms. Being able to watch multiple channels on the TV, being able to turn the volume high on the TV, being able to go from California to Oregon to Washington to Nevada to cross state lines. I mean, these people were so— they couldn't go anywhere. In so many ways, we are blessed. Freedom of religion is something that we don't talk about a lot. We talk about freedom of speech, we meaning the two of us. But freedom of religion, I heard so many stories, and you know this very well because your whole purpose of going into the Soviet Union, as you said a few moments ago, was to smuggle in Jewish items, smuggle out Jewish names. But I really got a sense this trip of what an extraordinary privilege it is to be able to have a religion. I walked into East Berlin, I saw all these, you know, this was where a church was that was destroyed. This is where a synagogue was that was destroyed. And for all that the left mocks and disparages religion, again, this is what I was saying earlier about how certain ideologies are as luxurious as the finest jewelry. We are so lucky to be able to lead a religious life. Let's take advantage of that. You know, and it motivated me and it made me go, you know, Julie, you don't take your religion seriously enough. You know, I love God. You know, I endeavor to to be good. And I love reading your Bible commentary, but I realize I got to step it up because it's a— it is such a privilege to be able to go to church or go to synagogue. And so many people didn't, and so many people continue to not be able to do that. So you take advantage of it.

When you know communism, you know that the most anti-communist thing you can do is go to church or go to synagogue. And they knew that then, and the Soviets knew it. The number of Russian Orthodox priests they killed is in the tens of thousands.

Can you explain why?

Yes, it's the most anti-communist thing, because you are saying there's something higher than the state.

See that? That I knew you would. I knew you would answer that question with a perfect Dennis Prager sentence. And congratulations, you just did. That is exactly what it is.

That's right. And that is why the left so hated churches for opening up during the lockdowns. Yeah, the exact, exact same thing applied. You are saying Newsom, the governor of California, was saying to churches, there was something higher than me. F you, churches. We will close you down. John MacArthur, one of the best-known pastors in America, was on my show last week, and there's a movie that's coming out, or is out, with John MacArthur, the story he opened up. It's very powerful. The pressure that California placed on him not to open his church. Was he forcing anybody to go? No. The issue wasn't health. Health schmelt. The issue was it's either Newsom or McArthur, either the state or God. And the left understands that, and they hate the pastors and rabbis who stayed open. Interesting thing, by the way, they shut down the Essential Church. You should see it, it's a movie, the movie. So he tells the story in the movie, I was very touched, said they actually shut down my parking lot on Sundays so that nobody could park there. He said, so we happen to have the next-door neighbors, a synagogue, they gave us their parking lot.

Oh my gosh.

I was so happy.

I bet you were. Well, I— you just said that it wasn't about health. That is absolutely true. And for those who think that's a ridiculous statement, I point to one thing: BLM riots and protests.

That's right.

No problem with that.

No, on the contrary.

No problem. They encouraged it because they said it was a health benefit to fight racism.

That's right.

May I move on to another thing?

Yes. How much time do we have, Uncle Sean?

Uncle Sean, that's so sweet.

I decided for your mother's sake to be nice to him. Okay, go ahead.

How much time do we have?

As long as we want.

Oh, well, listen, I know you believe me, Dennis, but I want the audience to believe me. I am keeping it to the highlights. I could go on for so long.

I'm happy to do this every week for a year.

Well, thank you. Thank you for indulging me. The second thing I want to talk about was the Jewish memorial in Berlin. And by the way, I want to make something clear. This is not an episode, at least I hope it hasn't been so far, about sites in Berlin.

Oh, okay.

This is, I mean, it is, it is, but it's, I'm trying to connect each of these things to greater themes.

Of course.

And ideas that I've had. It's not just, uh, we went here, we went there. That's why it's Dennis and Julie. So you don't— if you're thinking, I haven't been to Berlin, that's not the point.

This is not a sightseeing tour.

It's not a sightseeing tour, though it's an idea seeing tour. Though I was thinking, I, I think I would love to be a tour guide. Not in Los Angeles, because, oh, here's where Marilyn Monroe stayed— boring. I'd love to go to a, you know, a really rich historical place and be a tour guide. So maybe if I flunk out of this, that will be my my next move. So there's a Jewish memorial in Berlin.

Holocaust Memorial?

No, Jewish Memorial.

Okay, sorry.

No, sorry, that's so sweet. There isn't— there is no reason to be sorry. But, but it's actually a really interesting point. It's not called the Holocaust Memorial, and there's a reason. And I wrote here, this is not called the Holocaust Memorial, despite what Dennis Prager would say, because the word in Greek for Holocaust translates to sacrificial fire. That's why in Israel, I learned this in Berlin, they call it chaos.

Is that what Shoah means, chaos?

Well, you would know.

No, I don't know. No, I know Hebrew and I didn't realize that Shoah meant chaos. They, they, that's what they've called it.

Yes. Well, I mean, sacrificial fire, that's a pretty, that's pretty bad. It's actually called the Memorial of the Murdered Jews of Europe by the, by Germans. And I liked that they included by Germans.

And I have a lot to say about that. Go ahead.

In a lot of different sites in Germany, and I really, I have to commend them.

That's what I was going to say. The Japanese have nothing like that. How about they take no responsibility for their Nazi-like behavior in Korea, Nazi-like behavior in China, Nazi-like behavior with prisoners?

Yep.

Nazi-like behavior in the Philippines.

Yes, yes, yes, yes. And as a result, we forget, we forget that the war happened in Asia. We're not— we focus so much on Nazism and we, we, we, we, we don't focus on the rape of Nanjing.

How many Americans know about comfort women? Tens of thousands of mostly Korean, sometimes Filipino and others. Women raped 12 times a day by 12 different men. I mean, it's beyond belief. It's beyond belief. How many people know about that? And the Japanese denied it until recently. Well, the Germans have taken responsibility. That's why that title was so important.

I— that means—

read it again. That's what they say.

Yep.

I give the Germans credit.

Me too. Memorial of the Murdered Jews of Europe by the German People. That made the biggest impression on me. That's it right there. I'm gonna talk about that.

Okay.

It's— this is really important that there's, that there's a photo. Thank you, Sean. I thought it— I made such an impression on me that they added by the German people. Good.

I mean, and not even by the Nazi government.

No, no, by the German people. And our tour guide, it was interesting, um, my, my dad said something like, oh gosh, it's, you know, as we were driving through Berlin, he said it's such a shame that so much of this was destroyed. And my tour guide, whose grandfather was a pacifist who was taken to the Gestapo prison, which we saw the remnants of, and tortured— so this, he was not, you know, his, his family didn't participate, but he's German ethnically— and he said, we deserved it. Don't miss one of the most inspirational movies of the summer. Briarcliff Entertainment's The Hill, starring Dennis Quaid, in theaters Friday, August 25th. The true life story of professional baseball player Ricky Hill. Growing up poor in small-town Texas, young Rickey discovers his extraordinary ability for hitting a baseball. But with leg braces and a degenerative spinal disease, the major leagues were just a dream that could never be. Courageously, he risks it all. Defying his father's wish to follow in his footsteps to become a pastor, Rickey tries out for a major league scout. Pushing hard to overcome his disability, he goes on to become a baseball phenomenon. Some dreams are unbreakable. The Hill, starring Dennis Quaid, Colin Ford, and Scott Glenn. The true inspirational story about family, faith, and a baseball miracle. Don't miss The Hill, rated PG, in theaters Friday, August 25th. Get your tickets now. He said we, he said we were awful. I mean, awful to put it lightly. We were wrong. We were savage and we deserve to have our city bombed. That's, that is a, that is a person who has strength of character. So this Jewish memorial, you can tell me, Dennis, your, your, your thoughts on it. I certainly have thoughts, but I'll tell you a story when I was there. By the way, when you go there, it looks all flat, but you, you walk in, the path gets lower, and as you go into it, the blocks are above your head. So you're, when you start out, they're right here and then you go lower and they're higher than, than you are. So I just wanted to give people that perspective. I walked in there and there were many people sight, you know, seeing it and they had a, a, an appropriately serious look on their face. They were taking it in. And then there were these adult delinquents. That's what I call them. You know, we see them all the time in LA. I'm not talking about homeless people. I'm talking about adult delinquents, silly, loud. Childlike adults, and they were running around these blocks like it was a maze, and they were laughing and they were trying to catch each other. And then there were other people who were standing up on these blocks and jumping on them like it was some kind of game.

There were signs not to.

Oh, are they?

I didn't see those signs, but they don't work.

And so I had two thoughts, and I'm telling you them in chronological order. My first thought was, Oh, shame on these people. What are they doing? This is the Jewish memorial in Berlin. And they're treating this like it's some video game maze. And then I had a second thought. As undignified as it is, wouldn't the Jewish people who were exterminated by the Nazis be so happy to learn that in 80 years from now, from, from their time, people would be living in such a free, prosperous society that they're— that they could be so carefree in a memorial. It really is. And I'm not endorsing it. I'm not saying it's good. No one should treat a memorial that way. But it speaks to how much has changed and what and how far Germany has come and how much freedom, at least for now, has prevailed. Well, I think that people were so careless.

I think they would No one can put their mind in.

Of course, of course.

But having said that, I think if, if those were specifically Jewish kids running around and laughing—

I doubt it.

No, I know, but I'm saying if there were, if they were, then you could say the victims of the Holocaust or the Shoah would be happy to know that 80 years later Jewish kids were frolicking at their memorial. But I don't know if it would have been a comfort to them to know 80 years from now German kids will.

That is totally fair. The point I'm trying to make is that it says so much about the privilege. It is such a privilege to be so carefree. They would have the people would have been happy to know that society would be so good.

That freedom had conquered Nazism.

Yes, that it would— that people wouldn't even view it with such gravity. Now, of course, it's inappropriate to not view it with such gravity.

The pro— yeah, I thought it was well-intentioned, which is in this case important to me, but not effective as a memorial. That was my sense when I walked through there. Also, anything that needs to be— any art or architecture that has to be— or music that has to be explained is not effective.

Interesting. Hmm.

So Yad Vashem makes you cry. Yad Vashem is— you were at Yad Vashem?

Of course.

Okay. So does the U.S. Holocaust Museum, but I don't know what they could have done, but anything that would have induced seriousness as opposed to frolicking. Look, how do you memorialize 6 million people, including every baby you could find, slaughtered? So it— I don't know. I don't know if it can be done. I salute the Germans, as you did, for grappling with their past. When I went— when I was a junior in college, I was in England, University of Leeds. I had a German girlfriend.

And did you know that she was hitting on you when you started your first date?

I was so busy hitting on her that I, I had— I was just happy she said Fine, thank you. I did not think—

You mean that she spoke English?

No, no, that she responded to how are you. That's all I'm saying.

Oh, I see.

It's a very powerful story, my meeting her. But anyway, I want to tell you a story. This is about Germans. So on one of my many visits to her from Leeds, I would go from Leeds to Harwich at the coast. Take a boat over to Germany, then a train to Hamburg and a train to Kiel. I really wanted to see her. So, but you could do it in a few, you know, I don't know, 8 hours or whatever, 6 hours, go for the weekend. Anyway, in Hamburg, as you know, I've always been into photography and I've always tried to buy the very best camera I could possibly buy with my limited funds. The very best camera, or at least 35mm camera, has always been Leica, the German company. And to say that I dreamed of owning a Leica goes without saying. I'm at a Hamburg camera store, American kid, I'm 20 years old, and the guy spoke English. And I go, how— so how much is the— I remember what it was, the M4. I go, how much is it? He gives me the price, and I can't afford it. And he sees I really, really want it anyway. So we were talking, and I go, oh God, I'm, I'm going, I'm going to Israel, and I so wish I had my Leica to take pictures there. Because you're going to Israel? I go, yes. Are you a Jew? I said yes. She said, wait a moment. And he came back and he gave me the camera at half price because I was a Jewish kid. Remember, this is— let's see, this is just 16 years after World War II.

Wow.

Think about it that way. And I was so moved It was his way of saying, I'm sorry, kid. I just want you to know we're not all Jew haters. So I'm going to give you this camera at cost. And it made an impact.

See, what's difficult is we are living in a time now in the United States where people are blamed for the sins of their ancestors. And also, we don't even know, you know, if some white people are the descendants of slave owners, just as we don't know if some Black people are the descendants of slaves.

Or the whites are descendants of Northern soldiers who died.

Right. Well, exactly. Exactly. So I don't like the idea, and I know that you agree, that you should have to pay for something that you didn't do. You know, the daughter of a slave owner can no more help that they're the daughter of a slave owner than the daughter of a slave. But obviously, that is different in in— well, actually, I don't know if I should say obviously. It is different in Germany, and I think that's wonderful that that guy that sold you the camera did that.

Yes.

And I think it's wonderful that my tour guide, even though he had no relations, said that.

But again, everything in life, you must compare people to other people, not to an imaginary perfect human being or perfect society. And we have a perfect example. Compare Germany and its evil of World War II to Japan and its evil in World War II. There's no comparison. The Japanese, if there's anything—

You mean they're equal? No, no, no, no, no.

I wasn't clear. Thank you for asking. In the way they regard it.

Yes.

Okay. The Japanese have done virtually no penitence. The Germans have done immense penitence. That, that they took that amount of, of area in their capital city.

Oh, it's right there.

It's gigantic.

And it's by the Brandenburg Gate. It's by the Reichstag. It's right there. And they chose it.

That's right.

And yes. Well, no.

So the Japanese self-perception is victims of the atom bomb.

Right. So this is something I wish I had just learned about more when I was in Germany. But you're the perfect person to ask. How did denazification happen so quickly? How is it? Because a lot of Germans, ethnic Germans walking around in Germany right now are descendants of Nazis. Not everyone, of course.

Yes.

But many, many are.

I lived through this. You have no idea. And I have no idea. I have a better idea than you only because I lived through it, but I don't even have an idea how difficult it was for my generation of Germans to deal with the fact that their parents were Nazis.

That must be so awful.

It is. It was. I have the chills. It's so— it is a chilling thing to think about. When you— I, I often point this out— it is much harder for a child to be disgraced by a parent than a parent who is disgraced by a child. The children— the son of Bernie Madoff committed suicide.

Yes.

The son of Charles Manson committed suicide. You have that It doesn't work the other way. My kid became awful and I commit suicide. You don't have that.

Not as much, certainly.

I don't know if you have it nearly as, nearly as much. Mm-hmm.

So how, I mean, I, I guess, I guess that, you know, that they realized how wrong their parents' ideology was. But does my question make sense? Like how do, how does that happen? How does Nazism go from, from being so mainstream and widespread in Germany. Well, maybe it's not fair to say because there were a lot of people who were silently opposed.

Well, remember, Hitler was elected with about one-third of the vote, right?

So how did it go from being so widespread to the kids and grandkids just shying it?

Right. By the time the war was over, uh, there, there were still Nazi believers, but people realized Look at what Hitler— look, forget even Holocaust or Jews or American. They just knew Hitler ruined our country. What is the figure? I just— I was just writing this up in my Bible commentary. I don't know what prompted this, but I think— what was it? A quarter of a million German women were raped. Do you know about the rape of German women by—

I don't.

Oh, this has got to be your next project. For you. Russian soldiers, Soviet soldiers, they raped en masse. They almost did— almost, it wasn't as organized. They didn't have 12 at a time, you know, go into a barracks with women, but they lined up to rape German women. And many German women killed themselves either in advance or after. It's not like the Germans didn't suffer because of Hitler. So I don't know how difficult the Nazification really was.

So I met with a Dennis and Julie listener in Berlin, which was a total highlight. Shout out to Will. And I just want to say to people that it's as much of a treat as it is when people email me, it is such a treat to get to know them. The, the honor and privilege is really a richness. It's, it's really lovely. And so, um, Will emailed us a few months ago, and Dennis and I loved what he wrote. He wrote all about Germany, all about how you've influenced him, how much he likes Tennis and Julie. And so when I was in Berlin, I had to meet up with him, and he's, he's wonderful. Dennis actually spoke with him on the phone, which you are always really gracious about doing, and I appreciate. I feel like I'm so lucky that my email got to you, you read it, I'm in your life, I've got to like dole it out when I can. You know, that's the— that's my way of giving back. But it really, it really speaks highly of the show that we attract people like, like that. So anyway, he was telling me, it's so funny, we— he came on the tour with me. I invited him to come for part of the tour of Berlin, even though he lives in Berlin, because I just wanted to spend time with him. And then afterwards, we went to a cafe. And I asked the people at the cafe for a pen and pencil. And poor Will, we sat outside and I just, I said, this is not an interview despite what you may think. But I was so interested in what he's saying. I didn't want to forget it that I just wrote everything down. So we talked all about politics and denazification and the architecture of Berlin. We talked about so much. And we moved the conversation to freedom of speech. I did not know this. In Germany, they don't call it freedom of speech. And in the present day, this is what they have. They call it freedom of opinion. But what is against the law is technically against the law, though it's not really always criminalized, is saying facts that are not true. Like you can have an opinion about an event or about a fact.

That's a very important distinction.

It is, it is.

Freedom of opinion.

Freedom of opinion.

That gets them around to enable censorship.

Yes. And so did you know—

You can have your opinion, but you can't have your information.

Yes. But, but Will said, even if you, you know, even if you're saying facts that are wrong, you're really not criminalized with one exception.

I know the Holocaust.

The Holocaust. Yes. You cannot deny the Holocaust.

France as well.

And so, so this made me wonder and I, I really wanted, but everything I saw and thought about, I was so excited to talk about with you on Dennis and Julie, this being, uh, at the top of the list. I am such a pro-freedom of speech person.

So am I. I think you should be allowed to deny the Holocaust.

I think you should be allowed to do that.

Even though by definition you are a Jew-hating scum of the earth human being. To deny the Holocaust is— it has only one purpose, to hurt Jews, because you have— it is the most historically documented event that exists. By the way, Eisenhower, to his credit, said, photograph this, no one will believe it. When he liberated a Nazi concentration camp.

Wow. Wow. I didn't know that.

He was a prophet. He said, they won't believe it. You got to get this documented.

I, like you, am so pro-freedom of speech. I think the most despicable—

once you start with X, it never stays at X.

Yes. But, and this doesn't mean I agree, but I'm just saying I kind of get it.

I get it too, especially in Germany.

I kind of get it in Germany.

Look, you can't sell Nazi memorabilia in Germany. You can in America. I get it. I don't fault them for that. But that I understand.

On this note, finally, of the Jewish memorial and you were saying the Japanese have done, not in memorials, not publicly, not in reparations, tried to rectify their evil, the Germans have. It made me think about Confederate statues, the tearing down of Confederate statues. People here are so stupid, and I'm going to use that word, stupid, to tear down a Confederate statue. It is so powerful to go in Germany and see the Soviet memorial, the Red Army Memorial next to the Reichstag. It is so important to go. I mean, oh God, what's it called? What's the airport, the Berlin, the Nazi airport? Tempelhof. Tempelhof was the airport in Berlin that the Nazis built, and then it became the site of the Berlin Airlift where the Americans brought all the supplies to Berlin. It's in this awful Nazi architecture that's still standing. That is so powerful to see. It is so powerful to see the Nazi aviation center. It's powerful to see the basement of the Gestapo. It's powerful to see the Berlin Wall because you don't forget. You walk around and you have to look at it. And again, it just made me think about the stupidity of Americans, especially Americans who claim that they want people to know about the Confederacy and know about our evil past. They should not be— they are the same people who want to tear down the statues. It's so inverted. You should keep them up and know that in your city This evil existed here. We have it all backwards. We're screwed. Bye. That got a laugh out of Sean.

We're screwed. Bye. That is one of the most elegant endings.

I'm sorry.

In radio and TV history.

Hey, I try.

You know why we're not screwed? Well, because hopefully people like you exist.

You know, when I was thinking about names for Timeless, Sean and I sat and we would call each other, text, you know, so many names. We should pull up the list. There were some really bad ones we toyed around with. But Sean one time was sitting with me and he goes, if you could— if there's just one message that you could tell people, you know, like just scream it out to people, what would it be? And I just said, we're— and he said, that's what we're gonna call the show.

That's it. Perfect.

Perfect.

Wow.

With Julie Hartman.

This is special. Julie, welcome back.

Thank you. Okay, enjoy to be with you. And you can reach me at julie@julie-hartman.com. And as you know from what I just said with meeting with Will in Berlin, you never know what will happen if you email me, so please do. And you can also follow me at Julie R. Hartman on Instagram and Twitter to see photos of the trip, among other things. And you can follow Dennis, who definitely knows he has an Instagram, is definitely scrolling through the Instagram right now, hence why he has brought out his phone on air, @TheDennisPrager. Shalom.

Why did you guys focus on me?

Because we're filming. Could you wait 15 seconds? You're such a millennial. These millennials, these 75-year-old millennials.

Your beloved dog and a stranger are both drowning. You can only save one. Who do you save? Every time Dennis Prager asks that question, his audience splits three ways. One-third chooses the dog, one-third chooses the stranger, and one-third aren't sure. Why? Because we live in an age where increasingly feelings define right and wrong. But if morality is based on emotion, then murder, rape, and theft are just opinions. And if people feel justified, why is rioting or destruction wrong at all? In his new book, If There Is No God, Dennis Prager explains why civilizations cannot survive life without objective morality, and why Judeo-Christian values shape the moral foundations of the free world.

If you claim that certain things are good, certain things are evil, independent of how you feel about it, you are in effect affirming God.

If There Is No God by Dennis Prager, available now at pragerstore.com. That's pragerstore.com.