Dennis & Julie: Good Intentions

Your dog and a stranger are drowning. You can only save one. Who do you choose? Dennis Prager says your answer reveals everything about how you define right and wrong. In his new book, If There Is No God, Prager exposes the danger of emotion-based morality and why without objective truth, society descends into chaos. This isn't a religious book. It's a rational case for moral clarity in a confused age. If There Is No God from Dennis Prager. Order now at PragerStore.com. Hey everybody, welcome to Dennis and Julie. It's stupid for me to say, but I'm Dennis.

Really? You are?

I am Dennis in Dennis and Julie. Uh, well, that's the beauty of spontaneity. This is a very rare thing in the, in the world of podcasts. It's not that rare that people will have a buddy, as it were, or co-host. Well, most people do it alone. But people do have co-hosts. I've never had a co-host in my life in 40 years of broadcasting, and it gives you an idea of how highly I think of Julie. I'm sort of crazy about her. She's a find. She's a blessing. And I think you should know that, that our bond goes beyond the show. My wife feels the same. So anyway, it's a very special thing, and Julie is very special. You don't even have to react, Julie. I just, I just, I'm opening up about the human element of, of the Dennis and Julie podcast. So Julie has something in mind that she asked me, would I like to know what it is? And I said no, because then I can't say honestly I have no idea what Julie is going to raise, and I need to be honest with you. But first, a word on what's on my mind for a moment. So, Julie, on my show, I was— I played Jen Psaki, the press officer. What is the word? Press secretary.

Press secretary.

Thinking in European terms. The press secretary of the president of the United States. And she has a podcast apparently, and she started to cry, literally cry. Oh, she was on a podcast. I didn't— it didn't make sense to me. Okay, she was on a podcast. Very good. And she started to cry, and I believe these were genuine tears. And it actually was a revelation to me. Why was she crying? Because Republicans hate children. And are ruining children and are bullying LGBTQI children because we don't want sex in general and non-binary teachings for kindergarteners to third graders.

And cruel, uh, to a community of kids especially. I'm, I'm like gonna get them— I'm gonna get emotional about this issue because I just It's horrible. But, you know, it's like—

So she started to weep. We're bullies. So we're bullies.

It seems like all these leaders are taking steps to hurt people.

So Julie, this was an epiphany moment for me because I have asked all of my life, do people on the left— I don't mean liberals, I mean leftists— do they believe what they say? That America is systemically racist, that men give birth. Do they really believe this stuff? And now I think they— I now believe they do. She really believes that if we want to protect kids from premature sexualization, we're bullying kids. So this was, as I say, it was sort of revelatory to me. And it's a real problem that people believe this stuff, but I think they do. So I just thought I'd share that with you.

You know, Dennis, that reaction is very concerning, and I have to tell you that I see around me a lot of people, um, reacting to things in a disproportionate way with how they should. And I think that has to do with the fact that people, especially on the left, don't understand real evil. They don't have the wisdom to be able to identify when something is real evil. And so I think a lot of the times They identify conservatives as their enemies, as opposed to actual, real, everyday injustices. And here we see an example. It's very unfortunate that someone like our president's press secretary thinks that a major political party in this country is trying to silence or undermine LGBTQ children. I mean, it's just ridiculous. Anyone who takes 2 minutes to understand the issue can see that it's about preserving children's innocence. And so it's very concerning to see that reaction, but I hear your point. Unfortunately, I think that they really do believe it, that we are evil.

If I quizzed 100 random students at Harvard, where you are now, obviously, uh, if I quiz them, do you think it's a good idea to talk to kindergartners for teachers to talk to kindergartners about they're not necessarily being a boy or a girl and they will choose that. Do you think that they would— most of them would say that's a good idea?

That it's a good idea to—

for a teacher to say that you are not necessarily a boy or a girl?

Yes, I think most would say that it is a good idea to teach that. And they would say that again, circling back to this, they would say that you're evil if you're not teaching that and that you're bigoted and you're trying to silence. I hear this all the time. You're trying to silence different identities. And again, it goes back to this idea that they don't have a lot of wisdom about the world and they can't identify true evil. So they look at conservatives and things that they disagree with, and that's what they identify as evil.

When you don't fight real evils, you fight make-believe evils. That's exactly— that's been one of my mottos. So what's on your mind? I'm really curious. Well, you know, since I said earlier, don't tell me, now I really want to know.

Well, it's so interesting, Dennis, and this is why I think that we work so well together on this podcast and why, as you mentioned at the beginning, why we're so close. What you just said dovetails so nicely into the topic that I wanted to bring up. Today marks the one, one, one month, excuse me, mark for when I'm graduating from college. It's a month from today. And I've been doing a lot of reflecting on who I am and how I've changed. And this, through this reflection, I've realized what a profoundly beneficial impact finding conservatism has had on me and on my development and maturity. And that's what I want to discuss today. I want to discuss the strengths of conservatism, not so much in regards to specific policy positions, but sort of as a mindset. And what you just identified, Dennis Prager, it's so crazy. I was just about to bring up that one of the best things I think I've gotten out of becoming a conservative and that I'm carrying with me into my life is that I've understood the hard truths of life. I've understood that life is nuanced and that there are some just hard truths about the world that I wish were different. But through conservatism, we sort of look at the world as it really is, not how it ought to be. And part of conservatism is understanding what real evil is and what's worth fighting on and what's not worth fighting on, and that things aren't black and white. And so this, this recording that you just brought up again dovetails very nicely because it shows that people on the left have such a black and white view of the world. And conservatism has shown me that, look, I would love for it to be the case that children could learn about mature things from an early age, but it's not, it's not that case. And actually, maybe I shouldn't say that I would love for it to be that case. It shouldn't be the case. I think it's okay for us to preserve innocence in young people. And those are things that they can encounter as they get older. And again, it's that wisdom, the nuances of the world that I've gotten through being a conservative. And as I'm graduating, yes, of course, that's enriched me by helping me identify which policy positions to support. But it's also greatly enriched me as a person in my maturity. And the other thing I'll say, and there's— we can have a great discussion about it because there are so many different ways that conservatism has contributed to my development. But I think another thing is, and it's related to this point, conservatism has taught me to view the world from a perspective of identifying values and principles. I want to tell you about a fantastic product, EdenPure's Thunderstorm air purifiers. They use proven Oxy technology that quickly destroys viruses, odors, mold, and more. With over 200,000 already sold, you know it works. Any odor will disappear when you use the, the Thunderstorm. Get rid of odors from litter boxes, trash cans, cigarette smoke, dirty diapers, and more. Right now you can save $200 on an EdenPURE Thunderstorm 3-pack for whole home protection. You will get 3 units for under $200. That's a fraction of the cost compared to other air purifiers that can go for over $600. Go to eatimpuredeals.com and put in my personal discount code, JULIE3, to save $200. That's eatimpuredeals.com with the discount code JULIE3. And by the way, shipping is free. And on the left, I remember when I was a liberal, when I was younger, I could have one policy view one day and then I could have another opinion the next day. And anything was kind of justified because you're a progressive and you can go, oh, well, I changed. And that's part of progress. But when you're a conservative, you're focusing on what you want to conserve. And for us, we want to conserve the principles of the American founding. And that's a very helpful framework to view the world, identifying your values, identifying your principles, of course, leaving room for change and for judgment. But going based off of that, and again, I just feel so blessed to enter the world and graduate from college with this mindset. I think it's just enriched me hugely. What are your thoughts on that?

Well, I think it's a great, great thing you said. It's a great topic. It makes me think you should, you should consider writing a book, um, something to the effect How Becoming Conservative— you can't do this in a title because the, the word I'm about to use is so unsexy— matured me. So you couldn't use that, but it would be about that. Becoming a conservative made me grow up. That's really what you're saying. Is that fair to say?

Absolutely, yes.

So this is my, my theory, one of my theories about leftism is that it is a desire to remain a child. And it's very, it's particularly backwards because they want children to be adults and they want adults to be children. So they're prepared to talk sex to little kids, but as an adult, they really don't want to grow up. They don't want to take— many, not all, Many don't want to take the responsibility of marriage and certainly not children. It's the least marrying generation in American history, the least amount of children in American history born to this generation. But it is generally not a desire to grow up. You want to live in a make-believe world that children have. Defund the police is a make-believe world. It takes, as odd as it sounds, apparently it takes a certain degree of maturity to recognize more police, less crime. I have a 6-year-old grandchild. I have no doubt if I said to him, Jack, that's his name, hey Jack, do you think there would be more bad things happen if we had fewer police or more police? I have a strong suspicion that he would say more police and less or fewer bad things would happen. But it's a painful thought because you want to believe in this fantasy that, oh, with enough social workers reaching out with love, we will have less rape and less murder and less beatings. But it really does.

That's the way it works.

Right. And that's the point. That's why I agree with you. It's about growing up.

It is. It's totally about growing up. I think another thing that I've taken away from conservatism is that it's related to this point that you just made. We judge people on results, not on their intentions. And it's just so fascinating because I look at the left and you just brought up defund the police. And, you know, they sometimes I'll talk to people and I'll go, look at what a disaster this movement has produced. Look at how— I mean, so many of these American cities have so much crime. Every day you hear about a new horrible atrocity. It was just a woman biking in, in Boston, just about 10 minutes from my dorm. And I think that she was thrown off her bicycle or stabbed or something egregious. I read it a few days ago. And I always, excuse me, I always have my peers respond, oh, well, you know, it's based off of good intentions. It comes from a place of, you know, the people who are advocating for defund the police, they just want the best. They're just trying to find a different solution. And I go, I don't care. Look, would we say that to a doctor? Let's say a doctor had good intentions, but he accidentally killed someone in surgery. We would judge that person based on their results and go, okay, maybe they, we need to reconsider if they should have a medical license. You know, similarly, let's look at an engineer. Does an engineer have a right to build a bridge that collapses and is not very well built because he has good intentions? Of course not. So why do we have this idea of intentions over results in the political arena of our lives But then we would never apply it to other arenas. It's, it's really backwards.

I want to tell you something. I have talked about the intentions, good intentions being worthless all of my life. And I think your analogy to the engineer and the doctor is the best example. I think that was terrific. We don't say that, do we? The bridge collapsed. We're not going to hold the engineer responsible. He had good intentions, right? So when society collapses and the left-wing people, many of whom do have good intentions, they excuse themselves. There is a direct correlation between defunding the police— and by the way, not just defunding the police, demoralizing the police— Do you know that about 23 unarmed Blacks were killed in any given recent year in the entire country, in the entire year, by all policemen? About 23.

Yes. By the way, Dennis, I just want to cut in. That fact, learning about how few unarmed Blacks are killed a year by police, that is the single fact that made me a conservative. It's because I— it was back in May of 2020 when right after the George Floyd incident happened. And, you know, there are all these riots and protests. And the first PragerU video I ever watched had to do with policing. And I think maybe it was Larry Elder. I forget who was the speaker in the 5-minute video, but someone brought that fact to the fore. And that is the thing that changed me, because the way that the media was making it seem, they made it seem that 3,000 unarmed Blacks were killed I mean, it's just unbelievable. I actually, I would ask people, I do this thing. It's very interesting. I go around to people and I say, how many unarmed blacks do you think are killed a year by police? And of course this is anecdotal evidence, but I'm telling you, Dennis, I don't think I've, I think the lowest answer I've ever gotten is 600. That's right.

That's correct. More.

Sorry, go on with your point.

No, no. Uh, I, I was, It's perfect that you took off on that, but I, I was, I was simply saying, what kind of mindset would even think that you could defund and demoralize police? Why would one want to be a policeman today when every elite institution from your college to, uh, to the American Medical Association labels police racist. Why would you want to be hated? Why would you want to be targeted for death? More policemen have been dying in the last couple of years than in any given year before. So, but it doesn't matter to them. The people living in gated communities are much more for defunding the police than the people who live in poorest communities. So, so much, so much, but so much for the— anyway, this is all a discussion on the good intentions issue. I'll give you another example that I— your engineer thing I love and will cite you when I quote it in my own talks. But every university is an example. Why are university professors overwhelmingly on the left? There are many reasons. But here's one. It's the only place in life where if you think wrong, there are no consequences. If you run a small business and think wrong, you go out of business. If you run anything and think wrong, you go out of business. But no matter how cockamamie your idea is as a college professor, In fact, the more cockamamie, the more likely you are to remain employed. So there are no consequences to stupid ideas on a campus.

Well, exactly. To your point, I've long thought that one of the biggest reasons why progressivism has a home on college campuses is because here there's such an emphasis on original thought as opposed to clear thought. I even find this when I write papers. Sometimes I go to my professors or I'm talking with my friends and I'm so focused on finding the original take on something. But guess what, Dennis? People have been writing about Jane Eyre for decades and decades and decades. I don't know if Julie Hartman can provide an original take on some of these books or, you know, issues that we discuss in class. I'm Julie Hartman. As some of you may know, I'm finishing up my degree at Harvard right now, and I'm very proud of that accomplishment. But I want to tell you about another great college. The King's College is a Christian liberal arts college in New York City's Financial District, providing a disciplined curriculum with a Christian worldview, both in person and online. The King's College has majors in business, finance, politics, journalism, media, religion, and more. Every program is rooted within a politics, philosophy, and economics core curriculum, which provides students with a framework for understanding the way the world works and how it's influenced. Because of this, King's graduates are well-rounded critical thinkers. King's faculty pride themselves in not sharing their opinions on topics, but instead teaching the historical context that roots the issues of the day. They like to say that students come to King's to earn their opinion. They don't teach them what to think, but how to think. Find out how you can attend the King's College in person or online by visiting tkc.edu. That's tkc.edu. Go online today. So again, being a progressive and always trying to find the new take, how you can change things, to use their favorite word, reimagine things, that's rewarded and encouraged on a campus like this. And not only is it rewarded and encouraged, it's penalized if you don't do it.

Got another truism. You mentioned earlier conservatism wants to conserve. As an adult, I can say I regard my role in— I regarded it as a parent and now as a grandparent and indeed as a father figure to a lot of people. My primary task is to conserve the greatest ideas, the greatest music, the greatest art, the greatest architecture, the greatest philosophy, the greatest literature, and give this as a gift to the next generation. It is not my task to give them an original piece of literature. If I can come up with something awesome, terrific, but I can't. I have no intent to. Why am I devoting so much time to explaining the Bible? I'm doing it because I am— I want to give over this gift of the greatest book ever written. That's what I believe. If you believe there's a greater book being written today, great, more power to you. But I don't. So I don't feel I need to make an original— I mean, I think I have some original insights into the Bible, but the Bible is the book that I'm explaining. We haven't given this gift of the greatest anything to your generation. None of it. If it's old and it's dead white European males, they took down Shakespeare's poster at the Department of English at another Ivy League college, University of Pennsylvania.

Oh God.

Right?

Oh God.

They took down— why? Because they said because he was a white European male. But that's not the issue. The only issue is that he write the greatest plays. We haven't given you— we haven't given your generation the gift. My— I was given this gift. I read great stuff from the past. I read the Bible. I was given these gifts. My generation deprived your generation of these gifts.

Well, one of— I remember when I was little you know, as you're growing up, you're trying to just understand the world more and more day by day. And I remember I would look at things and go, well, why does, you know, why do we do it that way? Even things like, you know, I know it probably sounds so stupid, but like, why do we draw dotted lines in the middle of the road to signal the difference between lanes? Or why do we have, you know, why does our system of government have 3 separate tiers? You know, and I just asked myself these questions. And I remember from a very young age thinking, you know, they must work. There must be a reason why they're in place. People have been around for thousands and thousands of years. Of course, America, you know, has been around for a lot shorter amount of time than that. But there's a reason why this country is the freest, most prosperous, best country in the entire world. It's because these things work. And of course, that doesn't mean that they're perfect or that they can't be improved or changed when necessary. but I just wish I could wake the people up around me and go, there's a reason for all of this. And as much as you wanna try to reimagine and changing it, I think I was reading the other day that Hillary Clinton said, sometimes doing something different is better than doing nothing at all. And I completely disagree with that.

Oh my God, really? That's a gem you dug up.

Yes, or I think he said, sometimes doing something is better than doing nothing at all.

That's why they always judge a session of Congress by how many bills they passed. And, you know, the ones that don't, they're called do-nothing president or do-nothing Congress. And I'm thinking, gee, maybe that's the best president or the best Congress. By the way, forgive me, because I'm going to forget this. You said something about Yes, you added when talking about the dotted line and talking about America and, you know, it's made the freest country, you said the most prosperous, correct, both counts. And I said, of course it's not perfect. So that triggered, to use their word, it triggered in me another argument for the childish nature of leftism. And it is the notion that the imperfect is awful, or I expect X or Y to be perfect. Every child expects a parent to be perfect. It is shattering when you realize your father or mother, really, and mother, neither is perfect. And then you either grow up and go, well, No human is, but generally speaking, in the balance, my parents are pretty damn good with all their flaws, and I don't expect perfection. The child who continues to be angry at the imperfect parent— I'm not talking about a truly abusive parent, but the imperfect parent— remains a child. That is the vision of our parents, the founders of this country, the fathers of the country. They're our parents. Well, they weren't perfect, they had slaves. Therefore, the fact that they created a society that destroyed slavery and that created a country that more blacks want to move to than any other on the face of the earth is irrelevant because they were not perfect.

That is such an excellent point. You are so right about that, how people view the imperfect as always inherently bad. You know, I was even thinking about that the other day with regards to challenges in people's lives. I think it was our last episode when I talked about my sister with autism. And of course, sometimes I wake up and I go, why did this have to happen to her? Why did this have to happen to me, to our family? It's caused all of us so much pain. But there is something that has been beneficial to me, of course, about having a sibling with autism, because I view challenges in life as sort of cosmic or metaphysical resistance training. Because there are things, there are things that I would encounter in life that would break me if I didn't have an autistic sister. But because I've encountered so many challenges with her, there are things that come up in my life and I go, please, that's nothing. I can handle that. I've handled a lot worse. So again, there is, um, there is something so beneficial about the, the bad things in life and about the imperfect things. And again, it's such, it's such a, um, such a great example.

Julie, I so agree with you that I actually raised on one of my happiness hours The Hour of My Radio Show, done for over 20 years on Fridays. I've raised this question and I really don't have an answer to it. I wonder how much of a blessing a very happy childhood is. Yes, I know it sounds almost sick, but I, I mean it sincerely because it's like If you never encounter germs, you have no antibodies, right?

That's a great— that's a great analogy. You're so right about that, Dennis.

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And I think, you know, again, this is a point that I brought up a few episodes ago. I think the biggest problem in America, I think the singular greatest cause of all of the craziness that we see today is that we have benefited from too much prosperity. Frankly, life has been too good for us. And it sounds sick. Like, I don't wish that we would encounter tragedy. I don't wish that something— we would have freedom of speech suspended or a tyrannical government. Of course, I don't want that. But it is just— it is a consequence of prosperity that we become ungrateful and we take these things for granted and we get these sort of delusional ideas that what we're seeing now, that we can bring a utopia on Earth. And so yes, I agree that sometimes having a very prosperous or ideal upbringing or living in a prosperous and ideal society actually can harm you and it can bring about things that undermine that very system that you benefited from.

And I think we're seeing now. I'll give another proof of the terrible challenge of ease I always felt, even at your age, I actually remember thinking I grew up in the perfect economic circumstance. We wanted for nothing, but we were truly middle class. And I thought about Now I'm certain of it. Then I thought it. Kids who inherit or grow up with super-rich parents, that is a curse. I'm not sure who's cursed more, children of billionaires or children of poor parents. And I think a great case could be made that the children of the billionaire have it harder. What do you work for if the stuff comes to you without working? Why work? And without working, if there's no challenge— it's your theory here and my theory, the germs theory— you probably— are there kids you know at Harvard who grew up with super wealthy parents or It's not that common.

Oh, of course. Oh, they're everywhere. I agree with your assessment, Dennis. You know, I think also the children of billionaires, it's unfortunate, but I think they just do go throughout their whole life thinking, I don't deserve anything I've gotten, or anything I've gotten is because I have money. And in some cases, that's not true. I actually have a person in mind whose family is extremely wealthy, and she's one of the nicest, most hardworking individuals I've met. Now, I will tell you that the other children of billionaires at the school are total blankety-blanks. But this, this girl's an anomaly. But I know that hangs over her, that she feels like no matter how hard she works, she still has this idea. And she knows that a lot of what she's gotten in life is through her family and through money. And again, you know, I know it's, it sounds weird to say that I feel bad for her, but in a way I do. Yeah, that must be a difficult mindset to have going through your life.

Yes. And even though she's hardworking, there's probably still a realization, even if I fail, I will get support from home. I didn't have that. I never had that for a moment. I remember I won an award in my second year at college to all-expense-paid year abroad, junior year. They gave it to one sophomore. And it was the beginning of my life. It made everything possible. It was a great year. I went to England and the Soviet Union and so on. And I remember my father saying to me, I'm glad you won that award because I certainly wouldn't have paid for you for a year abroad.

Right.

And I, and that's really the way it was. I had an allowance. When I was in high school. My father was very, very generous. Every month I got $20 to buy my classical records. I was crazy about music at a very early age, and that was it. That was all the money I got from my parents— my allowance and $20 a month for records. So I didn't have— I had the notion, Dennis, you better work hard or you won't have anything.

Right. Totally. Well, these are, these are all realizations I've had thanks to you. And again, I know it sounds corny, but even just this conversation makes me feel better about graduating and who I am and the kind of person that I'm leaving this college as, because I just feel that I have a much deeper understanding of the way that the world works. And that, and that really is in large part thanks to conservatism. It's really not just a set of policy positions. It's a mindset. It's almost a disposition.

God, this is really important stuff. I do think you should jot notes periodically on how conservatism has affected you. I think coming— I think— I know it has, and that's, that's exactly why I'm suggesting this. I think it would be a powerful book, uh, at your age what it's done for being— because the, the general assessment is it keeps you stupid, it keeps you bigoted, it keeps you intolerant, it keeps you unintellectual, and it, it's all an excuse not to confront what we believe or what we say seriously. But it is, to use a word, I said to you earlier that it's this least sexy word, mature. When I was a kid, you know, basically that's what you were supposed to be. You were supposed to mature. I wonder if the word is even used in your generation.

It's just very seldom.

Yeah, I would imagine it's not a goal. Exactly. It's not a goal. So we'll wrap this up. I'm very curious. If I did say to your classmates randomly, so what is your goal in life? What do you think most would say?

I think they would say to be happy.

Yeah, that's what I would think.

I think, yeah, they would definitely say to be happy. But I think that the problem there is that their understanding of what happiness constitutes is pretty flawed. I think they would see it as having a lot of money, a house in the Hamptons, a fancy degree from another Ivy League institution, working at a prestigious consulting firm or Goldman Sachs or something. It's not so much the immediate answer, but it's their view of what happiness is that's the problem.

And how to get there. It's the same thing, but I'm just putting it in different words. And as the Declaration of Independence says, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. That's what the government is there to protect. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Not happiness. The pursuit.

Well, I am infinitely happier as a result of being a conservative, and obviously I am infinitely happier having you in my life, Dennis. I mean, what you said at the beginning, I want everyone to know, is true. We really— it's so unique what we have because I think that, of course, our viewers, excuse me, are the judge of this. I think we have such a great professional relationship and a great rapport, but we're so close too. Outside of this. And I feel like I can talk to you about anything, and you, you've really just become a member of my family. And I just— I mean, how lucky am I? I enter this career where all day I get to talk about issues that fascinate me with one of the greatest minds out there, and he's my best friend on top of it.

I can just smile. It is special, and we're both lucky. Anyway, folks, I would, uh, suggest and ask you to send the Dennis and Julie link to your friends, especially young people, because they'll hear stuff that they never hear, and one of them is their age or even younger. Um, in that regard, I'll just add, I do remember thinking Again, I remember well, uh, being your age, and I remember thinking I didn't really give a damn about the age of anybody as long as what they said made sense, right? I, I didn't take people my age more seriously than old people, and I didn't take old people necessarily more seriously than people my age. So anyway, Dennis and Julie podcast. Julie, thanks. Great to be with you. And yes, how to reach you?

Yes, please email me at julie-hartman.com. That's my website. We've heard from a lot of you, and I respond to my mail. From the both of us, thanks so much for listening. See you soon.

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