Dennis & Julie: Kiso Kaso Koso

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Hi everybody, Dennis and Julie. I'm Dennis Prager. Julie Hartman. What episode is this? What number 47.

Wow. We have to have a big celebration on the one year anniversary. We should pop open champagne.

Okay.

You don't drink?

No, no, I'll drink. I'll take care of it. No, no. Yes. No, no, no. I, I'm not anti drinking. I just, I don't enjoy it that much. I prefer cigars. So since we were last together, I was in Florida for 10 days, and I have a thought that I want to bounce off you. And I— there's so much to talk about, it's a little intimidating, actually. So I have a thought, and it's— you— I know you'll resonate to this. I was with Jordan Peterson and 6 scholars. I don't know whether to say other scholars or 6 scholars.

You can say other.

Okay, thank you. No, no, it is interesting. I debate that. Anyway, we were studying the book of Exodus for The Daily Wire. They will eventually have millions of views, which is astonishing, because one of my biggest desires in life was to bring the Torah to the world. Jews shouldn't hide it. It's the greatest— of all the Bible, the first 5 books are the most important. So we were, we were doing this. And so here's my thought, the effect it had on me. Imagine this: I'm, I'm brought to Florida to participate in this with truly 6, 7 luminous minds. I don't normally say that. And luminous hearts. They were, they were good people. I know I have a good radar for that, which we will talk about. And so here is my thought. How many people have— and most people don't even think about this— how many people have elevating experiences in their lives? A lot of people have fun experiences, even intellectual Uh, you, you name it, right? Exciting, fun, but elevating, where you could say it brought out the best in me and even made me a little bit better a person, a little bit deeper. I think people used to have that more, and I, of course, I ascribe that in large measure to the fact that people were more religious. They'd get together for Bible study. You have any thoughts on that? Do people have elevating experiences?

Oh, it's something I think about all the time. No, increasingly in, in my generation, we seek fun experiences over elevating experiences. I don't even know if, if people would be able to identify what the difference is. If you said to someone, what is an elevating experience? I don't know if they could answer you.

Right, that was, that was my thought.

I, it's actually quite interesting to think about what they would say. I don't know.

Well, so for example, as you now know, I have an elevating experience every week at the minimum because of my, my Shabbat, my Sabbath, right? So Friday night with a group you're, you're now acquainted with, the, the, the Chosen Dozen, and Then on Saturday, with the— in— at the synagogue that I teach every week. By the way, that is a great advertisement for the Sabbath, to having that, because to have a day each week that's elevating, it is impossible to overstate its role in my life.

And you have to work it into your schedule. I think sometimes what people think when they're seeking elevating experiences is, oh, you know, later this month I'll go to a performance, or I'll go to a museum. But sometimes when we think we're going to do those things, they never really happen. They can keep getting kicked down the road. So to block off that time where every single Friday you have to go and do this—

that's right. And very, very helpful. I, I, I— yes, as people, many people know, I believe God commanded the Ten Commandments, so I have to keep the Sabbath. I don't have a choice. And if I had a choice, even though I know how valuable it is, I would probably work 7 days a week.

You know, I was thinking about this subject of, maybe not in exact terms, but of elevating experiences because I mentioned on our last episode that I'm rereading Eric Metaxas' Martin Luther biography, which is so good. He is an extraordinary writer.

Don't tell Eric. If you ever are with him, don't tell him.

I know, you've told me.

Okay.

For those of you who don't understand the reference, Dennis has told me that Eric is quite a character.

Total. He makes us look subdued.

Really?

Yeah.

Well, we look subdued on this podcast. If you saw us 10 minutes ago—

I mean privately. Yes, even privately. Eric is a wild man, and by the way, Eric proves that outliers do all the good in the world. He's another example of it. Anyway, go ahead.

Well, it's amazing that he's so— and I obviously trust what you're saying— that he's so goofy and so, you know, theatrical, because when he's— his writing is—

Oh, right. All of us, we know when to be serious.

Right.

Yeah.

But I'm reading this book, learning about Martin Luther, and I'm just enthralled. I'm so blessed, really, thanks to the world that you've opened me up to, not just with your Bible commentary, but the conservative media world where I just read books constantly that truly enthrall me. And I, I'm— was reading the, the book the other day, and I was thinking, how many other people read books that are truly enthralling to them, or seek these, you know, as opposed to just entertaining? Yes.

Well, also because people read novels and so on.

Also, a lot of people my age— and I used to, to do this, you know, a few, a few years ago— read a lot of like self-help books. Dennis Prager, or, you know, how to, how to make the most of your 20s, or how to be a really good, effective worker, really effective boss. And I'm just, oh, I remember being in the stage of my life where I read those books, and I didn't even realize how dull and dry and desiccating they were. But now that I'm in the stage where I'm seeking enthralling transcendent experiences, I realize the, the gap.

So I just want to, before we leave that topic, I want to emphasize again the importance of elevating. That it's ironic because elevate and deep are opposites, theoretically geographic opposites or locale opposites, but they're, they're related. What, what do people do to be deeper and to be better? And I'm not blaming them. They just— it's not part of the vocabulary. When I was at graduate school, I mean, you know, the 1970s, I remember I wrote a piece which I submitted to the New York Times, which of course they rejected, about my life at Columbia University. And one of the points I made was when they're not reading for tests or papers, They're not reading.

That was me because I was so sick of reading.

Well, so that's what, that's what school does.

Yes. It, and even, even when in high school, and I think I've talked about this here or on my show Timeless, when I, I had to read Beowulf, I read The Scarlet Letter, I read Shakespeare, and I don't remember, I mean, I just, I reread The Scarlet Letter this summer and the book is actually on my set because I love it so much and I think it's such an important read. But on my graduation day from high school, I could not tell you any specific fact about any of the books that I read. I couldn't even remember the characters' names because you read them so quickly and then you're tested and you have to write papers on them.

Right. So this is what teachers should do. They don't teach. They, if you read Macbeth, the teacher should spend a week on what does Shakespeare want to tell us about life in Macbeth? Otherwise, it's pointless to read it.

You know, another thing that teachers do, and by the way, I've done a lot of research on this, and next week I'm actually interviewing this guy on my show, John Agresto, who wrote this fabulous book, The Death of Learning. Have you read it?

No, but it sounds so right.

It resonated with me so much. So this isn't just true of my educational experience, but it's also true of others. Teachers have this idea that the student, especially in humanities courses, like English classes, they have this idea that the students in the discussion should figure out what the book is about. And I remember in high school, like, you know, we were assigned 2 or 3 chapters to read of a book. And then the next day we'd show up to English class and the teacher wouldn't like help explain the themes of the chapter or what it's really about. Instead, she or he would just allow us to talk about it. But we're 14-year-old squirts who don't understand. That's exactly right. We don't understand. So we're just like, I remember sitting there going, I'm so stupid, I don't understand this.

Oh God.

I thought I was an idiot.

You've so touched a sensitive point in my own life. Two things. One, I remember the same thing. So I'd be in school and the teacher, so what do you think, the teacher would say. And I remember thinking, who cares what I think, you're the teacher. It's irrelevant what I think. And then another kid would raise his or her hand and I said, I don't really wanna know. And I like the kids. Not I didn't like the kid. At 15, if you, you, you shouldn't be have the same insight as the 50-year-old teacher or the 40-year-old teacher. That's why they're the teacher. If your insights are as wonderful as theirs, why are they in the front of the classroom? By the way, I have the same exact— I mean, to the word— when I was about 18 or 21, it's some at some point between them, they lowered the voting age from 21 to 18. I had my first serious girlfriend. So I remember saying to her, why are they giving me the vote? I don't know anything. I swear to you, I said those words. And I was well read. I mean, I took ideas seriously. But I knew my ability to vote, I don't know I don't know anything. And now they want to lower it to 16.

You know, I believe it was the New Zealand Supreme Court recently ruled that keeping the voting age at 18 is discriminatory.

Of course it is. But in that case, keeping it at 5 is discriminatory, right? The nursery school kids are not getting a vote.

So they were saying it's By the way, you know my theory on that?

Why, why people on the left want to lower the vote to 16?

Because most people are liberal at that age and they will vote Democrat.

Okay, that, that's the political reason. Entirely right. There's another reason, in my opinion. They are not wiser than they were at 15. So therefore they don't—

Very good point.

Yes. So therefore, why not have them vote? It's not fair. I'm no wiser. I'm a 50-year-old liberal. I am no wiser than a 16-year-old liberal.

So true. So, so back to this, this discussion of teaching, you know, also I think at that age, I sort of go back and forth with this because on the one hand, I'm really glad that at least even if I don't remember anything about Beowulf, I'm glad that I at least know that Beowulf exists. Um, but I also think even assigning that kind of reading when you're 15 or 16 or 17, we don't have enough life experience to truly appreciate a good book like that.

That's what— that's the purpose of a teacher.

I know. So that's what's so sad. In the T— I remember my teachers would hold back explaining the book because they didn't want they wanted to make sure that we did the reading. And they thought that if they gave a summary or if they talked about the themes, then every single day kids would show up to class and they would know that the teacher would basically synopsize the readings of the night before so they wouldn't have to do it. But my response to them would be, it's way more important to get the students excited about the book and to explain the book to them than actually having them like read it. Make sure that they did the previous night's readings, because if you make them excited about it, they will do the readings.

That's exactly right. Do you know— you don't know this, which is rare, because you know basically my life— but when I was at Columbia Graduate School, so that was all the way up in Manhattan, high in Manhattan, 116th Street, I taught Hebrew school. So high school kids whose parents basically forced them to go after school. You know, it's like Bible class for Christian kids. So it was 2 nights a week, and I went all the way too far into Brooklyn, almost near the beach, Coney Island, and I would teach at this Jewish center. And I said to the kids the first night they came— I knew they didn't want to be there, they wanted to be having fun And here they are at Hebrew school. So I said to them, and I remember I, I just looked at them when I said it. I had such a joy. I said, listen, it is my task to get you interested in this material. So I want you to know something. You don't have to attend another class after tonight. You have to pass the test. But you do not have to come to class. I will either earn your desire to learn with me, or you could stay home. They, they couldn't believe that, that— but that is my belief. A teacher has to earn.

Yeah.

Now, you obviously at school, there would— it would be irrelevant if God came down, and there were kids who would just rather play basketball or, or steal ATM machines. But the That was what I did. And I thought— and I was, by the way, they showed up. They showed up. I made the material interesting. So one more point on this, because you used my favorite word, my new favorite. You know, I have a bunch of favorite verbs like like as opposed to love, earn. Here's another one: explain. Because what you said, I read Beowulf, what did I understand about Beowulf? But you're entirely right, of course. But that's the truth about the Rational Bible. That's why I'm doing my commentary on the first 5 books, because if you pick up those 5 books on your own, it's like reading Beowulf. You, you'll understand some of the, some of the stories, but what is the— why is this any great? What is, what is this relevant to my life? That's what I do in the Rational Bible.

It's such a missed opportunity because there are so many wonderful, deep, enriching books out there. Well, that is the whole point of them, and they just you know, I really look back and I realize how much of my high school experience was about testing and about cranking out and writing essays. And I just, and it sounds harsh to say because as I've said many times, in many ways I do appreciate my high school, but I sort of wanna go back and ask some of my teachers like, why did you focus so much on that? You know, do you know that your job was to be here to make me excited about this? Why did on, you know, my 11th grade English final exam, as I said last time, I, like half of the grade in one of the sections was to be able to identify what number sonnet of Shakespeare. They would give you two lines and you'd go, what number, what year was it written? I mean, they could practically ask you like what kind of ink was it written in? Just such minutia. I remember I had a test once in history class at the end of the year. It was like the last week of school and we had finished the curriculum and my teacher didn't know what else to do with us. And he quizzed us. He had us take this test on like a series of questions. We had to name, for instance, on one of them, the top 5, like most used airports in the United States in order, in exact order. I guess number 1 is JFK, number 2 is LA.

No, no, I think number 1 is Atlanta.

Oh. Oh yes, that's right. That is actually true.

Well, I know my airports. Well, I live in—

and maybe that would be interesting for you as a guy.

It would. Well, not as a traveler. Yeah.

But anyway, I remember there was like these, just like, and you know, you would get points off if you put Atlanta as number 2 instead of number— you had to list the top 5 exactly in order, or the, you know, um, top, you know, 5, like, most used freeways. And like, just stuff like, why are you— and it was just for the sake of a test, just to test us. And I just thought, what about in that last week if my teacher picked some leader or person in history and just talked to us about him or her for, you know, 5 days?

Why is it important? That is all a teacher needs to do. Why is this important?

Yes.

Do you know, you will get a kick out of this. I wrote an essay in high school I may still have it, actually. I have to look, uh, in, in, you know, my hidden file somewhere. And it was titled The Tyranny of Marxism. Did I tell you this?

It's actually a title of one of our episodes.

M-A-R-K-S-I-S-M.

Yes, right, Sean? Isn't it?

Not Karl Marx, School Marx.

Yeah.

Yes, I knew that.

I, you know what, I didn't. And I'm, as you were just saying that right now, I was thinking, thank God back in high school I didn't realize how messed up it was that I was constantly being evaluated and tested, tested, and I wasn't retaining any of the material. Because I think if I had realized that, I would've been a more rebellious child than I was.

Like I was.

Yes.

I graduated in the top 80% of my high school class. Which people think, what's so bad about that? Till they think another few seconds and realize it's the bottom 20%.

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So we, we, we touched upon this, but only minimally. I want to talk to you about a, a couple of big themes. One is, and I have seen it at work this very week with you, this very day, this very day. So I have on the, on the internet, I've been writing a column every week for 20 years. So it's 1,000 columns. It's amazing. I'm even surprised. Like, when did I come up with all those topics? That's my first question in my mind. Anyway. I wrote a two-part series, Questions You Should Ask Before You Get Married. Have you ever seen that? No. Did you know I wrote it?

Yes, I did.

Okay, so it's a series of like 8 questions. If you're thinking of getting married, before you do, ask these questions of yourself and about the other— about the person you're thinking of marrying. One of them is— it's— I'll just interrupt for a second. It's basically a red flag or yellow flag producer, the— my questions. If, if enough of these questions have a, have a different answer than I'm giving, there are some yellow flags here. So here is one example: does the person you're thinking of marrying have same-sex friends, close same-sex friends? Which I, I, I never heard anybody pose as an important question to ask of someone one is thinking of marrying. So I, you know, having this life experience and working a lot with young people and people wanting to get married and so on, I realized in life it's not a good sign if a woman only has male friends or if a man only has female friends. It's okay to have, but it's, it's, it's generally healthier if they have a bunch of same-sex friends. You, who have passed every test I ever threw up in my brain about a human being, you have a lot of female friends, many of whom you've met, and I One is more impressive than the next, which I also have a theory on, which either we'll get to or not. But, and I have always had, I don't, I never had a female friend. I was married before, you know, Sue, my current wife, current wife, that's hilarious. Sue, my wife, current and permanent. I should hasten to add.

I gotta say when you just said that.

Yeah, that's pretty funny, I know. My current wife is, who knows what'll happen. No, no, I only said it because I, I have been married before.

Okay. Yes.

So, uh, she's my best friend, but, uh, and, and that's the ideal, that your best friend you're married to. But other than that, I've— other than a wife, I've never had a female friend. Uh, but actually, you're, you're really, in effect, my first. Wow.

I'm honored.

That is a big deal.

Wow, we've never thought of this before. You're right. Knowing what I know about your life, that's true.

Shocked. Holy mackerel.

Wow.

You know, did you ever hear of holy mackerel, by the way?

Is this— yes, I have.

But, but so, you know, you know what it is? I'll tell you where, because Catholics didn't eat meat on Fridays, so mackerel was a fish, and, and therefore it was called holy mackerel.

Oh my gosh.

Yeah.

I'm a bad Catholic. I eat meat every day. If I don't eat meat every day, I feel faint.

Oh, I think meat is the healthiest food there is, but that's— I got that from Jordan Peterson.

Segue.

Segue, right, exactly. So I'm your first human friend. Great. So yes, so now let's— so let's continue here because of the proximity to the very present moment. So I met this magnificent a woman in Denmark when I went to give a speech there a couple of months ago. And Sue and I just fell in love with her, and we invited her to stay with us, and she is staying with us. She's never been to America before, and she is exactly as terrific as we assumed. And I thought I don't even know if I mentioned this to Sue or not, but I was thinking I really, really want her to meet Julie.

You mean when you were in Denmark?

Or when I invited her? Yeah, when I knew she was going to come here. And I thought, in knowing them, knowing you so long and knowing her minimally, but thinking I knew her well, and I was right It was— I said to Sue, it was inconceivable to me that you guys wouldn't hit it off. Am I right?

You're right. We just have certainly hit it off. We had such a fun morning this morning. We went driving around Beverly Hills because even though it was so funny because in the car we were talking about very intellectual deep things, but we were driving around like Rodeo Drive. I was giving her a celebrity tour because in addition to being deep people. We also have a hint of shallowness in that we both like the Real Housewives franchise. In fact, when I met Astrid yesterday, Astrid said to me— one of the first things she said to me was, you know, I watch Dennis and Julie, and so I know that you also watch Real Housewives. Dennis, do you know what Real Housewives is?

Totally. Real Housewives of New Jersey, Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, Real Housewives of Copenhagen.

Astrid, you should be the star of the Real Housewives of Copenhagen. They should take that.

But she's not a housewife. She's only from Copenhagen. She doesn't fulfill both criteria.

Well, actually, a lot of—

so let me just say this. I actually— I know about it. I actually watched an episode in a hotel room.

It's so good.

Oh, I found it so boring. My addiction in hotel rooms is Forensic Files.

Okay, that's true. I love Forensic Files.

It's painful how much I love it. And but I only watch it in hotel rooms. But I, I, I don't get the appeal. I think it appeals much more to women.

Oh, well, of course it's women and gay men is the audience. But, uh-huh, it's— I love— I actually, you know, I should— Astrid, I'm, I'm referring to Astrid right now because she's in— she's watching this being taped in the control room. But Astrid, I want to ask you off air what you like, what you like so much about it, because what I like is it's my one arena where I feel like I can turn my brain off and I can be like, I don't know, I can indulge my, as I said, challenge, because I'm constantly like reading. I feel like I have to learn so much, and I enjoy learning, but I'm always, you know, you know, I have this voice in my head, do you know enough? Are you, are you maximizing your potential enough? Are you reading enough? Are you working enough? And so that's like my vacation, right? Anyway, we had a wonderful time. Back to this, back to this point about same-sex friends, right? We hit it off immediately. And you know what I said to, to you, Dennis, just before the air, was like, I— with her and with me, there's no like cattiness, there's no jealousy, there's no anything bad. We just are two people who really wanted to know each other and enjoy each other. And I find that with a lot of my female friends too. And I would imagine Astrid's female friends are the same. I have no, not one shred of gossipiness or catty, any of that in my female friendships because I don't have tolerance for it. And the people that I attract as friends also don't have tolerance for it.

So now I'm going to get This is beautiful because when we talk, even off air but certainly on Dennis and Julie, it's sort of like an archaeological dig. And so what we're going to go deeper, so I'm going to go deeper. And I, I know Astrid would be okay because she mentioned this. Uh, I actually did a, a fireside chat with her which people will be able to see soon. So I know your life somewhat, a lot, and I know her life somewhat, and the two of you have had pain. So I actually have posed a question on my Happiness Hour in passing. I don't think I ever devoted an hour to it. Now I will. Is it an unmixed blessing to have a happy childhood? And people, people I know thought, what kind of bizarre question is that? Of course it's great to have a happy childhood. But I, I, if I were certain of it, I wouldn't ask the question. Now, it's not great to have an unrelieved, unhappy childhood, right? Better to have more happiness than unhappiness. But a, a A childhood that is so protected from pain. How's this? Better? Is it good to have a painless childhood? Maybe that's the way I should put it rather than happy. You, you didn't have a painless childhood and she didn't have a painless childhood. She lost her dad, who by all accounts was a wonderful man, when she was 14, and he had had cancer for years before that. So she didn't lose him before she was 14, but she lost him in a certain sense because of his suffering. And you have been open about your sister who has— who is, uh, uh, what's my smart word here—

severely autistic.

Yes. And, and now I have an autistic stepson, as you well know, right? But it's even odd to say they're both autistic.

I know it is.

There's no comparison between the two. He is not self-sufficient. He has to live with Sue and me, right? Uh, but he's a joy. I mean, he is—

he's actually enjoyable to be with because he, he's, he's easy, and he's also easy to be.

That's the point. He's incredibly easy. Your sister is so difficult she can't live with you, with your, with your family. You've had this your whole life. Yep. So this is an enduring pain that you have had. And, and it's a very interesting question because parents for 3 generations since the parents of World War II. That was my parents' generation. I'm the baby boomer. My parents were not part of this, believe me. But vast numbers of American parents, their biggest aim was that their child have no pain because they had World War II and they had the Depression. So I'm going to make sure my kid has no pain at all, and the rest has been downhill.

Well, it's interesting to think about because as, as a— I mean, I'm not a child now, but as someone who doesn't have kids, so in a sense is still a child of some— someone, um, only, uh, I am grateful for my pain, which sounds odd. I obviously wouldn't want— if I could go back and make a choice, right? But I, but I'm, I'm grateful for what it has taught me and who it has how it has shaped me. But I mean, obviously I'm probably a few years away at least from having a child, but to think about bringing a child into this world and maybe hoping that they have a— some pain, you know, it's hard to— right, you know, because I can see on the— like having a kid and wanting to just—

well, okay, so here's the answer. You don't inflict pain on your child. You don't prevent them from having natural pain.

Natural pain, meaning?

Meaning, so for example, I remember if I would get, if I would injure myself and I'd go, oh my God, it hurts, it hurts. My father's answer, which was not sympathetic, I fully acknowledge, was Dennis, it's only pain. Nobody died from pain.

See, I have a pang in my heart hearing that. If I had a little boy running and scraped his knee and I—

That's why you need a husband.

I would feel really, really upset.

Fathers are tougher. That's right. The mother is supposed to cuddle. I, interestingly, I didn't have a cuddling mother or a cuddling father, right? And by the way, I will say I think that that prepared me for life really well. I think it could have been harmful for another kid perhaps, but my nature, which is actually quite sensitive because I so hate to see people suffer But they toughened me up, and that— people marvel at, you know, how— what thick skin I have because I'm attacked so much. And if anybody doesn't believe me, just go on the internet, Google my name, especially on the Daily Mail or Rolling Stone.

Rolling Stone called you the biggest conservative COVID jackass.

That's all? Oh my God. Wow. There's a lot worse.

I saw that. I was like, oh my gosh.

Well, exactly. But I grew up understanding pain is part of life. So here's the key. So Dennis, deal with it.

Yep.

They didn't protect me. I, you know, you know, kids, I mean, have we discussed this? Did you have, what are they called, jungle bars? What are they called?

Like, huh, what are they called?

Monkey bars.

Monkey bars.

Did you have monkey bars at school? Anywhere?

Yeah, at school I did.

You did? Your school allowed monkey bars?

Yes.

I thought they were sort of banned now.

Oh, are they?

Uh, I, I thought so.

News to me.

What about— well, and you're— okay, so you're almost a professional swimmer, so I— I'm not joking, right?

It's true.

Yes. So I'm curious, did you know that California banned, uh, diving boards at homes? Like 25 years ago?

No.

Yes.

Well, I—

you cannot have in California a diving board at your private home. At your private home.

How do they enforce that?

Well, the way they'll enforce— what is it? The, the hope for— hoped for ban on gas stoves. Oh, what about the ban on, on gas-powered cars?

Right. Well, those, those are easier. Well, Not a stove, but a car is easier to spot out.

Well, companies that sell diving boards presumably would have to know they could be— Oh, it's totally sick. Exactly. Of course we had diving boards and there were accidents. And the aim of a painless life is catastrophic.

Well, these people are— we need to get back to this point, but these people are so stupid because on the one hand they're banning diving boards because those are unsafe, but then they're having no cash bail laws and letting criminals go out on the street. That's right. How does that make any sense?

Because what is it, the great Talmudic phrase of 2,000 years ago? Those who are cruel to the kind will be kind to the cruel.

So on this point of having a painful childhood or a childhood with some pain, I hope Astrid doesn't mind if I'm talking about this, but because she talked about it on the fireside chat, I feel comfortable saying we were talking about her father passing. And one of the things that Astrid said to me was that, you know, when she goes out in life now, because I said, how has that affected you or changed you? And she said, I just, I really appreciate people more. And she said, when I meet someone, and they're willing to extend a hand out to me, and I see that they appreciate me, I am very much willing and happy to take it. And it made me think, and I said this to Astrid in the car, so she's gonna get a little repeat of my sermon. I said, it's so interesting to think that people, everyone walks through life with different goggles on or different glasses on. Like someone who had survived cancer must walk around every single day feeling like they had a new lease on life. Like they must sit in a car during a traffic jam and think, when the rest of us are like, oh my God, you know, this traffic— they must think I am so lucky to be sitting here because, you know, things could have been so differently. Or, you know, Astrid has these certain glasses on because of her experience with, you know, her father's tragic passing. I have certain glasses on in life because of my experience with my sister. We all have these.

Well, not all, but yeah, right.

Well, well, that— well, I was— everyone has glasses on But some people's glasses— well, actually, I shouldn't say everyone has them on, because I actually— what I said to Astrid in the car as we were talking about this was some people don't. Some people don't have a strong or good worldview.

Well, when a girl came up at the microphone at a college that I spoke at a few years ago, because I say if you don't agree with me, come first up to a microphone. So she goes, so are you saying to me, Dennis Prager, are you telling us that we women are not oppressed in America?

Yes.

Oh, it's exactly what I said. I said that's exactly what I'm telling you. Now, let me understand something. Your parents or somebody is paying $50,000 a year for you to be here. You have a plush dormitory room. You have an Olympic-sized swimming pool.

You don't have to wear a hijab everywhere you go.

Yes.

You don't have to get permission from your husband or your brother to leave the house.

You're not doing any work for any of this. And, and you're telling me you're oppressed?

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It's— there's a comedian, I forgot his name. My, my older son, uh, is a big fan of comedians, and he told me about this guy as a routine. Obviously, I'm gonna totally ruin it, but it goes something like this: you know, folks, we really do need perspective. You know, you're sitting in the middle seat on an airplane going from New York to LA, and you're complaining you're in the middle seat. So let me— let's try to understand something. You're in an air-conditioned cabin over the Rockies, where 100 years ago people died climbing them in a year-long trek just to cross them. You're doing this in 4.5 hours, and you're complaining about the middle seat?

I complain all the time when I have a middle schooler.

Right, no, no, no, no, no, it's just, okay, but you have the perspective.

Yes, no, but it's true.

So that's your point though, if you have cancer, every day is a gift. So you having had your sister, Astrid having had the tragedy of her dad dying when she was so young, and when he was so young, I mean, the tragedy for him is also terrible. And, and for the mother. And so it goes back to my original question, or my— not— it's not even a question, it's a statement. A painless childhood is bad to have. It doesn't help your character and it doesn't help your happiness.

Yep, that's true. And you know, I guess what I would say to people who haven't had a painful or any pain. Haven't had any pain. It's— it doesn't mean that you can't be deep or you can't, you know, it's the same thing with like, you know, I say to you all the time, Dennis Prager, one of the worst things that happened to America, or one of the biggest problems with America, is that it became so good. Because when it became so good, then people started looking for problems, microaggressions, men are now women, women are now men, and they screwed it all up. But it doesn't have to be this way. If you— if we had as a country kept in mind that we had it so good and we kept our wits about us and our, in a perspective, we could have avoided the, the route that we've gone down. So I would say the same to people who haven't experienced any pain, but the, but actually that segues into another question I have. Do you think it's true that some people have a, a painless childhood? Hmm. I mean, obviously there are gradations, but do you think, do you think anyone is without pain? In their lives?

It depends. Well, I guess gradation is the operative word. I have asked that on the air, and do you know, interestingly, I— the kids who call— kids— the adults who called in about their kid— their kiddiehood, who disproportionately had seemed to have had happy childhoods, were when they were one of many kids.

I'm sorry, what do you mean when people call in about their kiddiehood?

About their child.

Okay, you mean on your show?

Yes, they call in on my show. Okay, so I, I believe, because I, I try to see big— I try to see patterns among callers— people who grew up with, let's say, 4 or more siblings seem to have been more likely to have had a happy childhood. And, and here's the interesting— again, it's somewhat counterintuitive Partially because the parents couldn't helicopter them. When you have 5 kids, you can't helicopter each kid. You can helicopter 1 or 2 kids, but not 5, 6, or 7.

And it's probably harder to anoint one as the favorite.

Well, oh, that, that's really like a rub— that's Joseph and his brothers. That's what— that's the great story in the Bible, right?

You know, I thought you meant Joseph Tolushkin.

Yes, he didn't have any brothers, but Joseph, the, the, the individual in Genesis with his 11 brothers, and, and the, uh, they hated him because he was favored by their father Jacob. It's a, it's a, by the way, just parenthetical, every family in Genesis is dysfunctional, and I think it is God's way because I think God is the ultimate author of the— of these first 5 books— of saying, hey, if you have a dysfunctional family, please know that's the norm. Anyway, it's not as bad as theirs. No, I don't know anybody who was sold into slavery by their brothers like Joseph was.

Right, that's pretty egregious.

Uh, pretty egregious. But the larger point is, uh, I don't know if it's true. I would love some survey that I— if I would trust it Are kids who grow up with a lot of siblings happier?

I bet they are.

Yes. Well, they're, they're certainly less neurotic and less spoiled.

You know something, this is so off topic, but again, welcome to Dennis and Julie. This is either going to make total sense to you or no sense to you. I've noticed it's not— it can't be ascribed to everything, but if something seems to make sense, even if you don't really have any proof or like data, it probably is true. Like for instance, with this sibling, more people with more siblings seem to be happier. I have no data to support that, but rationally that seems to make sense.

So it's probably— Oh, so wait, so you don't know my old, one of my oldest lines about studies? No, I love it. I love what I have. A new line for you.

If it's common, if it seems like common sense, then it's probably accurate.

This is the way I've put it. Oh, the reason studies don't interest me is either they support what common sense suggests or they're wrong.

Yep.

I have never encountered a study that was opposite of what common sense suggested. The only— there is only one. I shouldn't say never. There is one, and it turned out to be accurate.

Oh, really? What is it?

That people who live together before marriage are more likely to divorce when they get married.

Wow.

Which was counterintuitive because you think— oh, you never heard this?

No, I didn't know that.

Oh, this— yes. And, and when you hear the reason, it completely makes sense. So that's why— I mean, my rule still holds. The study supported common sense, but my common sense didn't realize this. People who live together are less likely to break up if things are bad because they're living together. It's much easier to break up with someone before marriage if you are not living together. Living together is like a divorce.

Oh, I see.

So therefore, they will marry through inertia, whereas the couple that isn't living together and has problems will simply just break up.

Astrid and I were talking about that just a few minutes ago, about how it's it's easier to stay with someone if you're living with—

Yes, well, we had talked about that, and because I, I think I, I raised it. Yes, I raised it on my male-female hour this, this past week. So anyway, other than that, every study that I've ever seen, I had already known the answer, as it were, because I used common sense.

Yep. So that, that is an especially helpful tool for people to know of right now because we live in the age of Studies galore, right?

You know, studies— oh my gosh, studies say is what to ancient man thus saith the Lord was.

Yes, it's so true. I hate it when people say that, studies say. And sometimes even on, on my show, and I'm sure that you find this on, on yours, when I'm like— for instance, I did a, I did a segment recently on— actually, it was my first show of all things Dennis Prager on the increasingly growing phenomena, increasingly growing, that was stupid, growing phenomena of cannabis-induced psychosis where marijuana products now are so concentrated with THC that people are taking them en masse and they're having these like really bad hallucinations and paranoia as a result. And I remember, you know, writing up the segment and I wanted to pull some data about how many people use marijuana or what the rate of addiction is. And I was just like, how do I know anymore if this is even accurate? You know? And even if I tell it to my viewers, it will probably fall on deaf ears because there's none of us, none of us who are smart trust studies of any kind anymore.

So you're, you're hitting a real sore spot in me. I hate marijuana. I mean, I, I loathe it. I've always loathed it. When I was in high school, and it was already popular then, in college even more so, and then even heavier drugs like LSD, which is not even known today. But I, I remember thinking, and I thank God that I thought this, I'll tamper with my health, but I won't tamper with my brain.

You're very wise.

And but, but you know that it's the most controversial stand I've taken in the— most of my listeners are conservative, not all, but most. This position, I'd rather my child smoke cigarettes than smoke a joint, is the least popular position I ever took in my 40 years of radio, even conservatives disagreed with me.

Let me tell you, as someone who graduated from college, I absolutely agree with you. And about a year ago, or certainly 2 years ago, I would have strongly disagreed.

Mm-hmm.

And you know, I've, I've said it on this show that I used to, to use, I would, I never know how to refer to it cuz I never smoked. I hated smoking a joint. I would always cough. But I have in my life used edibles and it's, you know, I realized that it was sort of becoming an escape for me where I was.

Well, what else is it? Yeah, sort of.

Well, some people use it for, for what? Well, I should clarify. Yes, you're right that they always use it for an escape, but sometimes the escape is for fun. I was using it as kind of an emotional escape.

Okay. Okay. It's not the exact same thing, but it's, it's on a continuum.

Right. And I, and I, like you, realized, you know, I don't think this is a good thing. And so I quit and I haven't had it in many, many months and I never will have it again. Um, but I know some people very close to me who have become severely addicted to marijuana and have gone through psychosis and hallucinations. And it has, in some cases, ruined those individuals' lives. And in other cases, brought them to the brink of losing everything, their jobs, their relationships, everything they love.

And it's a lot stronger today than it was when I was a kid.

It's really, really— actually, I need to do another show on this. And I'm hesitant sometimes to talk about my personal experiences on my show because I want it to be news-based and I don't want people to think I'm always talking, trying to infuse myself. But I actually should talk about my personal experience with people who've abused marijuana because it's really common now and people still think that it's the safe drug. We've been fed the— I remember being told in high school and in college that you can't get addicted to marijuana.

Really?

Yes, it's impossible. It's because the problem is, Dennis, it— of course, unless the edible or the joint is laced with something like fentanyl, it actually is impossible to overdose on marijuana. There is no known lethal THC overdose amount. So people think, oh, well, if there's no overdose amount, then you can't get addicted to it. It's this weird, illogical line of logic. But people, I promise you, if you took a survey of people my age, that's what they would say. 9 out of 10 would say you can't get addicted.

Yeah, well, we live in the age of of foolishness. People are fools. And, and if you raise your kid, oh, never smoke a cigarette, but a joint, okay. So I, I always ask people, I said, I'm just curious, if you— if it were up to you, you're about to board an airplane.

You've said this on the show before.

Well, I love that you remember everything because it's great. It really Really?

Well, I bring it up to you because it's one of your classic, uh, would you rather, would you rather alternatives that are really helpful.

But wait, so I have two of them. I, I have a joint or a cigarette.

So yeah, let's tell that, let's tell the viewers, would you rather have your pilot smoke a joint or have a glass of wine before?

Okay, that's, that's one of my two. Yes, that's alcohol versus, uh, uh, a joint, right? But more obvious is even tobacco. Who— in fact, I would be happy if my pilot smoked a cigarette because it's actually— it makes you more alert from all the studies that I have read. I'm using studies because that's a medical thing and I wouldn't know. By the way, for the record, I don't smoke cigarettes and because I would choke if I inhaled, I smoke cigars. And cigars and cigarettes have almost nothing in common, but the anti-tobacco people have lied for about 40 years about that. They lump all tobacco together, which is a lie. It's just a lie. You don't inhale cigars. That's the biggest difference. And the reason you don't inhale cigars— don't smoke cigars for the nicotine. You smoke cigarettes for nicotine. You smoke cigars for taste.

Good to know. I've never had either.

Really?

Never had a cigarette?

You said that because you coughed with the— if you inhaled a joint. Yeah, well, I couldn't. I couldn't inhale. I had one marijuana experience. Friends of mine in my late 20s said to me, we really want to see if you are— if your joie de vivre, you know, your joy of life, uh, is, is really real. So marijuana gets rid of all inhibitions. Let's see what hap— where is the real Dennis? Bake a brownie with marijuana. So I said, okay, I'm very curious too. What will it uncover?

I've never heard this story.

Yes.

Oh my God.

And I even— I think I could even find you people who were present, if I'm not mistaken, because I remember pretty vividly where it was. Anyway, so sure enough, they baked it into a brownie. And you know what? I remember vividly what I— what I became, so to speak. And remember, this was the first time, so it's really strong and it was a good dose in the brownie.

Oh no.

All I did was just talk. I couldn't stop talking. So basically you got me on steroids. There was no depressed me underneath this me.

Okay. In the spirit of full honesty, that's what would happen to me when I would take edibles. I would just start talking, talking, talking.

Oh really?

Yes. And I, I will say this and about drugs and alcohol. I mean, the only drug I've ever taken in my life is marijuana, and I've never even been around people who've taken other drugs. So I don't know what the— like, but like, I swear to God, I'm being honest right now. I have no idea what cocaine does to you, right? Meaning not just personally, I mean, with other people, like, what is the effect that cocaine has? I don't know. But, um, but I've seen, and myself, people get drunk, and I've been drunk, and I've seen people have edibles, and I've done edibles, and almost— actually, I've never seen this where it's not the case— people's real sides come out when they're drunk or when they're high. And I'm sorry to use this word because it's kind of tawdry, but alcohol is a lubricant. It's a— it like, it makes—

in every way.

In every way, right? It makes—

that's why men like to ply women with alcohol.

Yeah, well, I meant— I didn't mean it so much in that sense, but I mean, it's certainly true in that sense. But it's, it's a— it makes it a lot easier for you to express what you're really feeling, right?

So here, you will love this, okay? So here's an example of one of the many kernels of wisdom I learned in my Jewish school, yeshiva, in, in elementary school and high school. There's a saying in Hebrew that you can know a human being. Now I'm going to say it in Hebrew only because you will see how similar the words are. It's a play on words. You can know them in kiso, kaso, and koso. They sound identical, right? Very similar. Kiso, kaso, koso.

Yes.

Kiso means his pocket. Koso is his cup. Kaso is his anger. You can know who a human being is by how they act with their money, That's the pocket. Kizokaso. Kozo. Uh, it— when they're angry and when they drink.

I love that.

That is so true. So by the way, just parenthetical tangent, I learned moral wisdom in 5th grade. I have an article on the internet how my— I wrote it in the last year. I, I was taught more wisdom in elementary school than kids are and professors have at any elite school, any university in America. I believe I had more wisdom at 11 than 99% of the professors in the United States today, let alone the seniors at Harvard, Yale, or your grandchildren.

Let me tell you, because I spent time with them yesterday, who are 7 and 12 years old, they are— I swear I'm not just saying this to flatter Dennis Prager. They are the nicest, most polite young men. Calling them young men because one of them is 7, but they, but they are just so sweet. And, and your oldest grandson, it really touched me how, um, what a sense of responsibility he felt for his brother. You know, like Jack wanted to go get a Hershey bar from the vending machine, and Daniel, who's the older one, 12, was like, oh, I'll take you, I've got it, you know. And I gave him a dollar and he He wasn't like, oh God, I have to take my brother to go get, you know, this thing from the vending machine. He was so happy to be with him. They have more wisdom.

Well, well, by the way, I had him on the show. I had them both on.

I listened. It was precious, wasn't it? It was really—

what did the older one, who was just 12, what did he talk about? How he debates his liberal teacher about the alleged wage gap between men and women.

Oh my God. Gosh, because he watches PragerU videos.

Well, in part, that's correct.

And he has you as his grandfather.

Well, and he has great parents. I mean, I got to give them credit, but because they deserve it, they're raising him. I'm not.

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But I want to go back to the point that led to my grandchildren, that that line you love, you know, a human being by their pocket, their cup, and their anger. But they all have very similar sound in Hebrew. It's just another example of the wisdom I got as a kid I, I take some credit for my insights into life, but I was given a head start.

See, I think that those words sound so alike in Hebrew, and they're all knitted together in the way that they are, shows that there's a God. That's God. That's God.

Well, you know, it's funny, signaling his presence. Many religious Jews traditionally would say Hebrew is God's language. I'll give you a beautiful Hebrew one. You'll love this. Ready? The word for truth in Hebrew, emet, 3 letters, is the first letter, the middle letter, and the last letter of the Hebrew alphabet. Truth encompasses everything. The word— again, the word for lie, sheker, 3 letters, the next to last, the second to last, and third to last letters in the alphabet.

I love those those moments that seem little and coincidental, but you really can't—

I don't believe it's cool.

I agree with you, they're not. You, you discover God through those moments. Oh well, even the fact that the, that the moon has a face, that always captivated me when I was little. You know what I'm talking about, right?

Of course.

I would look—

a man in the moon.

Yes. And I would just think, there's no way. I mean, obviously that shouldn't be people's only basis for believing in God.

But you think it's like God's winking at us?

Yeah, he's winking at us and he's making it fun for us, you know. He's sprinkling some, some clues around. It's magical, you know. The more you— I mean, and this is going to be the most seemingly obvious but not widely embraced statement. Well, what was the statement now? Of course I'm forgetting about God's—

God's, uh, you were probably going to say something that, that argues for God's existence?

Yes, I think I was going to say something along the lines of like, engage— if you really, if you look up and pay attention in life and you engage in life, it's— there are endless opportunities for you to be enriched, right?

Are you referring to God or just enriched in general?

I'm— I mean, I think in— when I say enriched, I think about it— no, I think about it in terms of God.

So I had a caller— it's perfect, you should mention this— I got a caller Dennis Prager on the radio said, you know, you're talking about this, that there's so much nonsense that people believe, you know, like men give birth. He said, well, what about the nonsense you believe? I said, for example, God. You believe in God. That's total nonsense. So it's so interesting, the certitude the man has that there's no God. I said to him, you know, you're more certain there is no God than I am that there is a God. I, I acknowledge that I allow for doubts because all faith allows for doubts. You— yours though doesn't allow for doubts. You are— you're a true believer. It's a— by the way, oh, so do you know my story about when I debated the atheists?

Well, I went to that.

No, no, no, no, no. Many before you were, uh, let's see, what would you have been, 13 years old when this happened?

Or negative 13 years?

Well, no, no, I think 13. I think it's about about 10 years ago. So I was invited, to their credit by the way, the biggest atheist group in the United States, I think it's Atheists United, but I don't remember the name. They invited me to their convention in Minneapolis on a Sunday, of course on Easter Sunday, and they invited me to debate their head on God's existence. So I thought it was great, and it was to their credit. Left-wing organizations don't invite conservatives. But at least the atheist invited a believer. So we had this discussion, and at one point I looked at the audience, about 400 atheists. I said, would you please raise your hand if you ever doubt your atheism? Like if you see a baby born, you go, whoa, that's really a miracle, or maybe there is a God, or, you know, a great work of art or music or Shakespeare or a sunset, anything. Does anything ever have you challenge your atheism? Not one hand went up. And then I said, you know, when I— I speak to religious audiences a lot, and if I say raise your hand if you ever have doubts about your faith, virtually every hand goes up. So we challenge ourselves much more than you challenge yourself. They were stunned.

You know, I have to tell you, Dennis, you know that I've been trying to go out on more dates recently, and one of the things that's been bothering me when I go out on dates, and it's both shocking and unshocking to me that it bothers me, is when the person says that they don't believe in God or that they don't have an interest in God. Again, part of me—

Your right to be bothered.

Yeah. Increasingly, not just on dates, you know, with friends sometimes. And by the way, I'm not, you know, you know, I haven't even read the entire Bible. I'm still at the beginning of my journey. I should be more diligent about it than I am. But I have a curiosity about it and I have respect for religion, for God, and for people who believe. When I encounter people who don't have that at the bare minimum, I increasingly find myself not wanting to be friends with them or date them.

Well, if you're not even curious about it, weird, you're not deep because you don't know how important the issue is.

And I will be really honest here too. Contempt isn't the wrong word, but I feel a little like a more like a tiny, tiny, tiny shred of anger. Yes. Again, I think that's a better way to put it. Anger or contempt isn't the right, but maybe it is kind of the right way to describe it. I feel a little bit like, well, who are you to, you know, be so cocky or confident?

That is so, again, It's our minds melding. So I mentioned there were two books in my life that I didn't read entirely, but the title alone changed my life. That's an amazing thing. And I'll tell you what they are. Just as what you were saying, one of them was titled— and people could look up the book— The Arrogance of Humanism. And I remember thinking, wow, I never thought of that. It is arrogant. All of these generations before me needed God and the Bible, and I don't? I'm that brilliant? I'm that deep? I'm that moral? I, I have such a clear moral compass I don't need that? It's— it's— the arrogance is, is breathtaking. The other book, which is not— not a totally unrelated theme not totally, but unrelated, that changed me just with its title, was written by a rabbi, a British rabbi. And I remember I was all— I was studying in England in my, in my third year in college, and that's when I think it came out. And I bought the book in England and I read some of it, not all of it. And the title was We Have Reason to Believe. We have reason to believe, it was a double entendre. The most obvious is there are reasons to believe there is a God. But the way I took it was we were given the gift of reason in order to believe. And that's why I ended up with the Rational Bible. I have only used reason to come to belief. Only. It is not emotional.

Can I give you a phrase that I thought of that I think is a double entendre? And depending on how you interpret it, it can sort of indicate whether you're a liberal or a conservative. It's— this came to me recently. Think about the phrase, be who you want to be. If you're liberal, you think that phrase is, be who you want to be. If you want to, you know, be trans, be trans. If you want to walk out into the street and wear a bikini, do that. If you want to, you know, dye your hair, purple and shave half of your head and be who you want to be. As a conservative, when I hear be who you want to be, I hear be who you want to be. If you want to be courageous in your everyday life, start, you know, cultivate that. Be courageous in your everyday life. If you want to be kind, practice it. It's almost, I mean, it's not fake it till you make it, but it's strive in your everyday behavior and conduct. Be who you want to be.

That's why another sign of the idiocy of our age— I, I don't know of a better word—

is you—

when I hear people say about themselves or about their, their son or daughter, well, he, he's trying to figure out who he is. Or I'm trying to figure out who I am. And I thought, I didn't spend 5 minutes in my life trying to figure out who I was. What I spent all of my time was figuring out who I want to be and then working on it. I wanted to be courageous. I wanted to be smart. I wanted to be good. I wanted a whole host of things I wanted to be. I wanted to be able to conduct an orchestra, so I studied to do it. The beauty of life is that you can be, in most cases, what you want to be. Now, it's true, I can't be an Olympic athlete. I grant that, fine. But I can be, and I could be, an athlete. How many people get to be an Olympic athlete? 1 out of a million, literally, or 1 out of 500,000. So it's the question you should raise your kids with is not, oh, you got to find yourself. There is no self to find. You have to find the self you want to be.

Yes, it's so important. The only—

did you, did you know that? I'm curious if in high school—

yes, I was. I wasn't going to say it, but now that you've asked, I was thinking it shows that I always had conservative instincts because I thought this way from a young age. I thought from really young, I remember thinking this idea that, you know, finding yourself, that doesn't, that can really lead people down some dark, convoluted paths.

Anyway, I don't even, what does it mean, find yourself?

Yes.

Well, I'm serious. I, I'm not being cute. What does it mean?

I think it means—

it doesn't mean explore your nature. In other words, am I really lazy? Am I really industrious? Am I— is that— if that's good. In other words, find out what your natural traits are and then work with them or against them. But that's not what people mean.

They mean like kind of do what you want to do. That's right.

Or that there's something there to find. It's all right. Anyway, go on.

No, it causes a lot of— because I remember the reason why I thought it was kind of stupid as a kid is because I, again, as I said on the show and as I say all the time, and as you know and our viewers know about me, you know, I'm always kind of regulating myself because I really want to make sure I'm on a good path in life with not just my job and my friends, but my character, everything. I'm really trying to steer myself well, and I've always been like that. And I remember when people would say fine, find yourself. I got a lot of anxiety because I would think, am I doing this wrong?

It—

well, what am I— what am I— fine, you know, have I not— have I not found myself? You know, what do I need to do to do that? And then I came to the answer: no. Like, the only way that you can really— should find yourself is what you're interested in. And I think in that way, I have worked to find myself.

Well, let me—

but as far as your character, yeah, you're right, it's not finding yourself.

Even interesting look, let me tell you about my stepson Reed, because I remember this vividly. You know, he's been in my life since he's a, he's a young kid. So I remember in high school, for— I don't know what it would be called, extracurricular activity, but the non-academic pursuit. So he wanted— I don't remember what it was— he wanted whatever it was, and it was already filled. There was only one thing left by the time his turn came, and it was what would be theater production, like sets, building sets for, for theater plays that the kids would put on at school. And he, and he thought, oh God, it's the last thing on earth I want. As a result of that, he became almost a genius in, in constructing things. And I don't mean sets for theater, but he's now a major IT figure. It totally opened him up. So he— that's his field. He's a professional at it. He makes a living at it.

He works at PragerU, right?

Well, he did for years. Yes. Oh, that's right. He's now— he wanted to be independent, which, which I totally identify with. But is it so interesting that that is very important? Even that is not accurate. Find out what you're interested in. You don't know what you're interested in.

But that's—

that's it.

Okay, but I think that's what it means.

Oh, okay, fine. Finding out without exploring? No, no, just look inward. No, looking in.

No, you have to.

Yeah, if you look inward, there's not much you'll see.

But you shouldn't explore your— I mean, you should explore, as you say, your nature and recognize what, what you're good at, what you're not good at, I suppose, morally. But you shouldn't explore, uh, your character. You should build, right, and strengthen your character.

Yeah, if you look within, your character is probably— we don't start out all that good.

Yeah.

Yes, that's why parents have to criticize their kids.

I remember when I was at a, uh, at that, um, debate that you had with the rabbi on the subject of whether people are innately good, which by the way, in fact, that was even—

no, it's painful.

It is painful. The fact that was even the premise of the debate is painful. But you, uh, during the Q&A session, I remember a young man went up to the podium and said, Mr. Prager, "Sir, you looking at me right now, not knowing me, do you think I'm good, bad, extraordinary, or evil?" I thought, "Well, that's kind of a," you know, and I thought you gave a great answer. You said, "You're a human being, so you're, you know, I don't know if you're bad, but your instincts are not good." Yeah, well, he thought it would be a real tough riddle.

Anyway, what you are and what human nature is is obviously a different question, right? That's why I don't know why people can't think more clearly. I, I don't— I understand that people aren't going to have total clarity of thought, but you don't realize that, oh well, the average person you meet, you know, on the street or in the elevator or in line on an airport or whatever, you think they're bad. That's not the question. The question is human nature. If the average person I meet in the street is a good person, they've conquered their nature, right?

You know, it's what you just said— why don't people think more clearly? It's something that I wonder a lot, because on, on the one hand, if people don't— if they haven't been exposed to good influences, that's one explanation. But today, I mean, all we— we talk all the time about how there are there are many bad influences, but we also do have a lot of good influences. We have people like you, and hopefully one day, if I get to your level, me. You know, we don't— we have some great public figures here in the United States. You know, Ron DeSantis is one of them. Like, we're not, you know, people in this society, yes, they have bad influences, but it's not like they're in an echo chamber. And so what I don't understand is when people are exposed to good influences, when someone does, you know, tell them the right thing or gives them a kernel of wisdom, why don't they take it? Well, this will sound pompous, but is it just in their nature not to take it? Sorry, I cut you off.

They don't want to take it.

Yeah.

So, uh, this is not a— this is something I would only say of Dennis Prager. Julie is a good example. Because I'm saying it to you and not— and I'm not alone just announcing it. If— when I read, and there are many people who hate my guts, as you just explore the internet and you'll find it, and I think it has no effect on me, none whatsoever, as you know.

And none, by the way, none, truly. I thought maybe it would have 1% of an effect on you. It doesn't.

Correct. But it does tell me about them.

It—

I, I— it doesn't tell me about you if you disagree with me, but if you hate me, it doesn't tell me anything about me. It tells me everything about you. I know that I aim to do good and do good. There are, there are very many people who have better marriages because of my Male-Female Hour. There are many happier people because of my happiness book, happiness lectures, and Happiness Hour. There are many people who have reconciled with their parents because they heard me. Okay, how many leftists who hate my guts can say that? Zero. Zero. How many people are kinder because they were influenced by a leftist? Zero.

Not only that, but how many people are angrier?

That's right. Less grateful.

Yes. And right, healthier, all of that.

When your kid— I mean, it's— look, unfortunately, this is so painful for some people listening to this. Your kid comes home from college woke. Are they kinder? Are they more respectful?

Really sad.

Are they a finer human being? It is not possible to become woke and become kind. No, it is not possible. Is like becoming taller and shorter at the same time. You can't. They're mutually exclusive.

Well, I say that— I say to people sometimes when I'm debating about religion, I say, if you were on trial and you could have a jury of 10 or 12— how many are in juries?

12.

Yeah, 12 religious people or 12 non-religious people, who would you want? And most of them say that—

that's interesting. So they would say, well, it depends. You know, knowing that I was a leftist, I would prefer secular people. So— but you're thinking of just where politics had nothing to do with your crime, why you're charged?

Yes. Who would you trust more to do?

Well, I have—

I don't know. Well, and it's the same thing with woke people. Would you rather have 12 non-woke people or 12 woke people?

Well, that's interesting, but I'll give you one that's proof. So I asked Pearl and Sam Oliner, O-L-I-N-E-R, two professors at Humboldt State, Cal State Humboldt, who were both sociologists, secular, totally secular people, secular Jews. And I interviewed them. This is about 35 years ago because they wrote a book on altruism, which is very interesting to me, why people do good. I'm more interested in why people do good than why they do bad, because why people do good is the outlier. And I asked them, because they were writing about, among other things, rescuers of Jews, non-Jewish rescuers of Jews, because if you rescued, if you hid a Jew in the Holocaust, you were risking your life. And maybe your family's life. It was an incredible risk to hide a Jew. Especially in Poland. And, and so I asked them, knowing everything you now know— and they were from Europe— with all your studies of rescuers of Jews and altruism, if you were a Jew in 1941, in Poland, '42, and you needed to be hidden to save your life, you could knock on one door— a Polish lawyer, a Polish doctor, a Polish professor, or a Polish priest— which door would you knock on? And they were— I emphasize, neither was at all religious. And they said the priest. That's, that's more dispositive even than the jury, I think.

Yes, it is.

So I think, Sean, are we about timed out?

Gosh, it goes by so fast.

Thank God.

And there were other subjects that we were going to get to. I have to write them down.

You do have to write them down.

You know what I was thinking is the magic of this podcast, if we do say so ourselves, we just, we really think we're in a room together having a conversation and there are, like, we forget that we're on air. Well, there are times we have these conversations and say, it sounds like we're doing our podcast. Stop ourselves before we get on the air because we say this would be so good if it recorded, but we just— that's true, we both like don't really realize we're on the air.

Thank God. And it's very real, which is everything. And that's what our new friend Astrid loves— real.

That's right. Is she still in there, or has she gotten so bored and tired of us? You can reach me at julie@julie-hartman.com, and please follow us on— uh, now I quizzed you about this last week, Dennis, so let's see. If you remember, what is our Instagram handle?

BrooklynDodgers.com.

Take it, take it.

Oh, yes. @BrooklynDodgers.

Oh my gosh.

Is that right, Sean? Did I get it right, Sean?

@DennisJuliePod. And you can follow me @JulieRHardman. And please watch my show Timeless tomorrow because Dennis and Julie is on Mondays and then Timeless.

I'm looking at you on the screen.

Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. Me? Yeah. Oh gosh.

Well, oh, we got— oh yeah, that's a subject. That's a women's self-image. Yeah, that, that's key. Yeah, we're gonna do—

I don't think I'm an ogre, but that's—

no, I don't think you're an ogre. That is adorable. Okay, everybody, great to be with you.

Shalom.

Your beloved dog and a stranger are both drowning. You can only save one. Who do you save? Every time Dennis Prager asks that question, his audience splits three ways. One-third chooses the dog, one-third chooses the stranger, and one-third aren't sure. Why? Because we live in an age where increasingly feelings define right and wrong. But if morality is based on emotion, then murder, rape, and theft are just opinions. And if people feel justified, why is rioting or destruction wrong at all? In his new book, If There Is No God, Dennis Prager explains why civilizations cannot survive without objective morality and why Judeo-Christian values shape the moral foundations of the free world.

If you claim that certain things are good, certain things are evil, evil, independent of how you feel about it, you are in effect affirming God.

If There Is No God by Dennis Prager, available now at pragerstore.com. That's pragerstore.com.