Dennis & Julie: Life Is Hard

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Hello everyone and welcome to the Dennis and Julie podcast. I'm Julie Hartman and here on on Skype, we have the very energetic Dennis Prager, who has been to— what, Dennis, 3 or 4 cities in the past 3 or 4 days? Is that right?

And, and 4 more to go. That is correct. Okay, so hello from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. That's why we have a very, uh, unsophisticated background here, uh, but we— that is, Julie and I— are truly committed to having this up every single week.

Yes, we don't want to miss it. And you know what? An authentic background just shows that we are authentic people. Let's go with that.

So it's a very touching thing, uh, happens. Julie, you should just know, people in every city I go to, somebody or some people will come over and say how much they adore Dennis and Julie.

Oh, I love that.

Yes, I thought you'd be very touched to know. And the most frequent comment I get is how much their son or daughter, and usually daughter, which is really impressive for those of us with our values to reach as young women. So you, you, you might end up being a real powerhouse with regard to young women, as I have been. I admit to to young men, and, and it makes perfect sense. I mean, hopefully I appeal to young women as well, and you appeal to young men as well, but the reality is that the same sex relates to the same sex. That's, that's a— it's not uncommon. Jordan Peterson has a huge young male following, has a big female as well, but especially young male. So it's very valuable what we're doing in, in every way, in my opinion. But I wanted you to know that, including— you might want to tell people, it's such a sweet story. Tell everybody about Stephanie.

Well, Stephanie, I know, is listening to this, and she's going to be so tickled pink that we are bringing her up. But Stephanie is this brilliant young 17-year-old girl who lives in Orlando, Florida. She's a senior in high school, and she emailed me a few months ago expressing her love for the Dennis and Julie podcast, and I was so touched because she also said that she views me as a role model, which obviously I take very much to heart and, and take very seriously. And so she wrote to me a few weeks ago and she mentioned that she was going to be at the Salem Orlando conference where Dennis was, was just at yesterday. So Dennis, can you just quickly explain what was that? I don't even know.

So I have been going around the Eastern seaboard with my Salem events with, with regard to the upcoming elections. And Orlando was one of the stops. And you told me that she would be there.

Yes.

And because you were so taken with her, I actually called her up.

This just shows— Yeah, sorry, I don't mean to interrupt you. It's a little hard on this thing to know whether I am. No. Yes. So Stephanie emailed me. She said she's going to be there. And again, what Dennis just said is so true. I'm so impressed with her that I, I, I told Dennis the other day on the phone, I'm very protective of Dennis's time when people ask to meet him. And she didn't even ask to meet you. But when people ask, I usually say no because I know how busy you are, even though you're almost always willing to meet with anyone. But I did ask you to meet with Stephanie because I knew that you would really enjoy her. And she is a remarkable young woman. I mean, just the way that she writes. She, you can just tell that she's incredibly deep and you'll love this, Dennis. She corrects me on my grammar and emails that we exchange. One time I made the cardinal sin, yes, of writing yours, Y-O-U-R-S apostrophe, which I know, like basically making yours possessive. I know that is a big no-no. I must have been half asleep when I wrote it and she corrected me and I loved it. I love that she felt like she could do that. She says, because Dennis corrects you, I feel like I can correct you.

That's hilarious. By the way, what most impresses me, and that's impressive, is that she knows grammar at all, right?

And she cares.

Do you know that she cares? Exactly.

Exactly.

You, you know, I, I may— I don't know if I've mentioned this to you, I— but when I sign a book to a, a teenager I ask, can you read cursive?

Really? And what's the most common response?

50/50. 50% of the young people, and I'm meeting young people who usually come from families that take this stuff seriously.

Right.

You really do wonder. I don't want to get sidetracked on this. I just want to say you do wonder, what are they learning other than preferred pronouns in high school and elementary school? If you're not learning grammar, how, how can you ever write or speak? What is the basis of language?

So I have something to raise that is related to this. So as some of you know, I guest hosted for Dennis a few days ago and it was so much fun. I love guest hosting for you. I don't view it as much of a job as just a great opportunity to have some fun early in the morning. Just kidding. I do view it as a job. I take it seriously. But one of the things that I, said in one of my segments was, I was talking about the fentanyl crisis, how 300 Americans a week are dying of fentanyl. And I was trying to raise the question of why this doesn't get talked about more. And I said, if you look at the New York Times or the Washington Post or CNN or MSNBC, they hardly, if ever, report on the crisis. And, or the White House also, they know that there's a crisis and they never talk about it. And I said what I later learned was the most controversial statement of my entire guest hosting. I said, you know, I think that this reflects to some degree that the Democrats want to see this country become decrepit and go to waste because they have the power to raise awareness about this crisis and crucially to stop it or at least mitigate it. and yet they're not. And it's the same thing, Dennis, in schools. The schools are so destroyed and so do not run right that it does seem quite intentional. I'm sorry to say it, but it seems like an intention to screw up these people's brains. And so people wrote to me and they were like, how dare you suggest that the Democrats want Americans to die of fentanyl, or they want schoolchildren not to learn basic arithmetic.

You didn't say that they want Americans to die of fentanyl, right? What you're saying is if they really cared enough, then they would do something about it because they're in power. They would raise the issue regularly. They raise the issue of Donald Trump being a liar regularly. But I think more of an emergency is whether or not we're having staggering numbers of young people die of fentanyl. So I— does argue for what, what I just said. As regards the other issue about kids being illiterate, etc., I, I don't believe they give a hoot about that, right? They want kids— they want kids to be woke. They want them to care about, as I said earlier, preferred pronouns and that they're non-binary. The fact is that a vast number of young Americans— I mean really young, like under 12— know what non-binary means, and they probably could not define an adjective. Why is that not proof of what you just said?

Yes, you know, I used the term heteronormative on your radio show when I guest hosted, and I was, I was using it kind of in blinking quotations or in a sarcastic way. I was saying, and According to the left, we live in a heteronormative society. And I had someone write into me saying, you know, Julie, you shouldn't use big words like that. You, you're confusing audience members. And I just thought it was interesting because I didn't at all mean it as, you know, to be pompous or to sound like I was using big vocab words. And again, I was using it sarcastically, but it proves your point. I can promise you that most people under 15 in this country know what the term heteronormative means. Now, if you ask them what the term conundrum means, I don't know if they'd be able to answer. Whereas I know that listener who didn't know heteronormative knows conundrum.

Yeah. You don't even have to go to conundrum. Adjective would be, would be truly sufficient. By the way, just on the heteronormativity issue. And for those who don't know what that is, heteronormative means that the society has said that heterosexuality and the nuclear family should be the norm. That's it. That's what they've said, that the, uh, the norm is a man marrying a woman and making a family. That's heteronormativity. They're against that. They're against any normativity, by the way. The left hates normativity. It bores them. It's boring. It's not exciting. It's not change. It's not revolutionary. So therefore, it is truly of little Dave Rubin, who is gay and married to a man, and I'm close to both of them, uh, as is probably well known, but if it's not, I'm happy to announce it. He said to me in his home a few months ago that in his view, the ideal is a man marrying a woman. But as a man who is not simply not erotically attracted to women, it was just not in the cards for him. And I understand that. And by the way, I think conservatives who say that every gay has a choice is not being honest. Nobody— believe me, as a man, I could tell you, you cannot choose if you're heterosexual not to be attracted. It's impossible for that to be a choice. Now, it's true you could choose your behavior. I fully— but you can't choose whether you're gay. You can choose perhaps whether you're bi. I think some women do make a choice for lesbianism. I don't think it's as built in. Some women do not, I acknowledge that. But, uh, he said that, that of course the ideal is a man marrying a woman and making a family. It's like when I was single, I, I was the head of a major Jewish institution until I was 32 years of age. And I was single the whole time. I got married at 32, and I was in people at this, at this institute in California. Folks, let me explain something about values. I am the head of a Jewish institution and I am single. You should not fire me even though Judaism wants men to get married. However, you should fire me if the very same day if I ever said Judaism doesn't care if I get married. There's a very big difference between the two, and that's what Dave Rubin is saying. Look, I personally, I, Dave Rubin, I, I can, I cannot relate in that way to a woman, but I do acknowledge that heteronormativity is okay, isn't You're not a bigot for saying that there is an ideal. You're a fool if you deny that there is an ideal.

You gave such a great talk related to this subject when I, at the shul service for Yom Kippur, Yom Kippur was a few weeks ago, and Dennis very graciously invited me to his minyan. And it was so much fun, first of all, to see Dennis in that setting. And I see him in so many different public speaking settings, but in the religious setting was very moving. And one of the things that you said that really stuck with me was the dishonesty nowadays of many theologians, not just, you know, within Judaism, but across the board, who read into the Bible what they want instead of just being honest in conveying what the Bible does say. And so it just made me think of it when you brought up how you would be— it would be more deserved for you to get fired if you said that Judaism doesn't care about marriage. Than if you were to not get married. Because, yes, and I so appreciate that because nowadays I've actually— I haven't even told you this, but in the past 2 weeks I've tried popping into some religious services in my neighborhood. I opened your guest hosting a few days ago by talking about how I believe that as a society we've become deadened. We've become morally deadened, we've become intellectually deadened, and crucially, we've become deadened in the sense that we We're not community members. We don't— we're not alive people within our towns. Many of us don't go to church services. We don't know our neighbors. And so I'm really trying to rectify that. So anyway, I just this past weekend stopped inside two churches that were having ceremonies at different times, and I was just blown away by the amount that they— I'm sorry— lie about what the Bible says. I'm not claiming that I am an expert on the Bible, but one of the things that they were talking about was how people are born basically good. I didn't even tell you this. One of the sermons was about how people are good and we have to combat the forces that are being pushed at us from society. And I know from your Torah commentary that in chapter 4 of Genesis, God tells Cain, the urge is within you, i.e., an evil urge, and yet you have the power to master it. Literally right there, the Torah could not be more explicit about the real state of human nature. And yet so many people nowadays are just twisting it. It's fundamentally dishonest.

That is so interesting that that's what you heard.

Yes.

That is a perfect example of secular religion more than religion influencing secular society. That is what drove me crazy and led me to debate this modern Orthodox rabbi who, who had written this article that people are basically good. And now, had it been a non-Orthodox rabbi, I, I, I wouldn't have been shocked. But for a man calling himself Orthodox to say that Judaism or life hold that people are basically good— you, you gave the quote from Cain. What about God himself saying that the will of man's heart is towards evil from his youth? I think it's in Genesis 8. I mean, the, the rabbi represents a religion with hundreds of laws of self-control. Of, of God knows how many warnings in the Bible. Don't follow your heart. If people were basically good, why, why, why would there be so many laws in the Bible about, about behavior? Why wouldn't the Ten Commandments have been revoked and just say, follow your heart, good people?

I would—

why do we need a commandment to not to steal or not to murder?

Exactly. And you know, I would have so much more respect for people who would say, you know what, this is what the Bible says and I disagree with it, and let me tell you why I disagree with it. But don't try to read into the Bible something that is not there. That is just doing religion, the Bible, and truth itself an enormous disservice.

No kidding. I find it interesting that you took your own advice and attended two church services. I didn't know that.

You know, you said to me once that when you were around 29 or 30, you felt an enormous pressure to get married because you said, here I was on the radio espousing my values about how important it is to get married, and I wasn't married. And I felt a little bit like that when I was coming up with the segment I was going to deliver, and I did deliver on the first hour of your radio show about how society is dead-end. I thought, you know what, Julie, I cannot in good faith talk to people about how we are not members of our communities if I myself am not a member of my own. So a great thing about this job is it really does hold you accountable. And I, I just, I really want to live by example and I want to embrace all of the things that I am talking about. I think I'm going, I wanna be a wiser, better, and happier person. And I think I will be if I just engage more in my community. I have to tell you, I wasn't impressed with those particular religious services, so I still have to do some searching. But as I know from you, finding the right thing is hard.

Get being happy and finding the right thing at anything in life, the right anything. That's exactly—

it's hard. It requires hard work. You don't just walk into it and go, oh my gosh, this is the panacea for all of my problems.

If without any ulterior motive, may I ask you, what, what was it, Catholic or Protestant? And if Protestant, what denomination?

It was one Catholic church and then it was one Methodist church.

And both addressed this issue of human nature?

No, only the Methodist church did. The Catholic church, again, with all due respect to anyone who may be listening who's a part of that congregation, that service wasn't talking about the Bible in a wrong way, i.e., reading things into it that are not there, but it was it was just, the service comprised of a lot of recitations of prayers and just sort of, to me, there wasn't a lot of depth to it. There wasn't a lot of explanation to the passages that we were reading. It was just kind of rote recitation. And one of the things that was so powerful to me about reading your Torah commentary is the way that you explained it. You have to make these big concepts understandable to people. You have to root them in everyday life. Again, just the, the rote recitation is not enough. In 2008, the amount of concentrated time people could spend on a task without becoming distracted was 12 seconds. 5 years later, it was only 8 seconds. The digital age is narrowing our attention span. Trouble concentrating or recalling information is frustrating, embarrassing, and kills productivity. Advanced nutrition company HealthyCell created Focus Recall to boost your brain power. Unlike other supplements that don't work, Focus Recall is not a pill. It's a patent-pending gel you swallow with ultra-absorption of science-backed ingredients to help you immediately sharpen focus, concentrate longer, and strengthen recall. These physician-formulated gels come in a small gel pack. Tear them off the top, shoot it down, or mix it in with water. Over 1,000 reviews with an average star rating over 4.5 indicates that it works. Supercharge your brain and see the difference. Go to HealthyCell.com and use the limited time code Prager for 20% off your first order risk-free. Love it or your money back guaranteed. HealthyCell.com, code Prager. That's HealthyCell.com, code Prager.

So, you know, I think, you know, but I don't know if I ever actually phrased it this way to you. We all have natures. Every one of us is born with a nature. So this was part of my nature from the very earliest age that I can remember. If something didn't make sense to me, I didn't accept it. I didn't necessarily reject it, right? But I didn't necessarily accept it. So Most people accept— that is why most students will accept that they should wear masks when they're useless. Why most students will say men give birth. A lie and an absurdity. I don't know which is greater, either a lie or as an absurdity. People people don't ask, does it make sense? It's, it's a— you, to you, I know you very well by now, and it's a joy, I might add.

Ditto.

And, and, and you— yes, that's right, you know me very well. That's right. So we who don't accept things that don't make sense really can't relate to people who This is what, what has driven me crazy my whole life about the left. You're telling me America's systemically racist? That doesn't make any sense. Why then do millions of Africans move here? Are they stupid? It doesn't make sense. Forget morality, forget patriotism, forget anything. Just does it make sense? The moment you ask, does it make sense, you end up conservative.

Right.

It's an interesting phenomenon. I'm not conservative only because of values. I'm conservative because the other positions don't make sense. And we're living, we're living in the age of the nonsensical. Anyway, I went to very religious schools. In my case, Judaism. Half the day was in Hebrew. Half the day was in English. It was, it was a great education, by the way. I thank God for it. It's why I know Biblical Hebrew so well. But I, uh, they, they, they didn't try to make sense of it. They— and I don't blame them. Their teachers didn't try, and their teachers didn't try. It was, look, this is what is written, and, and that is pretty much the end of the issue. So this is a universal problem. In Judaism and Protestantism and Catholicism, why did so many of those people lose their children? Because they didn't make sense of the faith.

So I want to ask you, because this question has really plagued me, because I can't tell you how many religious people I— or people, it's a crucial difference— people who have grown up with religion and are no longer religious. I meet so many of those people. I know so many of those people in my own lives. I'm related to many of them. And so often when I ask why, why are you no longer religious, they'll say, just growing up, it didn't make sense. No one explained it to me in the right way. And I just, I don't get it. Why do you think, why do you think it is, or how do you think it came to be that people teaching religion haven't taught it in an effective way? Is it that they don't understand it? And so then when they're teaching, they're also relaying it in a nonsensical way? What is, what is the origin of this in your view?

It's a really, really important question, but I, by way of answering, it's not confined at all to religion. Americans forgot how to explain America.

Yes, such a crucial point.

How to explain Catholicism or Jews Judaism. That, that's the point. If— that's why, again, Deuteronomy, my latest volume, yes, has this great, great law. You have to talk about these things to your children when you wake up, when you walk by the way, when you go to bed at night. Blame these things. In fact, that's a biblical law to explain this Torah. That is actually in Deuteronomy. You must explain these laws. And in fact, the medieval Jewish commentator who was most widely quoted, named Rashi, is in France in the Middle Ages, a French rabbi. And he said, what does this mean? It means you have to translate the Torah into 70 languages so that people could try to understand this. I mean, the idea that you have to explain is so intrinsic. But Americans forgot how to explain America. That's why my latest column is explaining conservatism. I don't think most conservatives can explain if their kid says, so Mom, Dad, you're— what do you stand for? Do they know that conservative means to conserve the best of the past, the most beautiful, the most profound, the most intellectual, the most wise? They wouldn't say that to these kids. So we don't pass on the most beautiful and the most— we pass on the most ugly and the most foolish. So, uh, the question is not just religious.

I'm smiling because it is such a profound and important point. When I ask people my age, and I've done this as a— you say that your radio show is like a human laboratory, or a laboratory of human thought. I've, I've kind of turned just everyday conversation, as I know you do too, into that laboratory. And so I asked people my age, and by the way, I'm not talking about left-wingers, I'm talking about liberals or apolitical people, i.e., those who would agree that America is a great nation. I say to them, well, can you identify 3 things to me that have made America such a great nation? Why is it that America is the freest nation on the planet? And so many of them cannot answer those questions, basic, basic questions, because they think that they don't have to do the hard work to learn it. They kind of just think it's obvious, like, oh, well, America is just the freest nation. Well, why? Have you ever considered why? Has anybody ever taught to you why? There's— and perhaps what happened in religion is that religious people, and again, it's not just confined to religious people, which is your whole point, just all of us in society, we've gotten lazy. We've taken these truths as a given. And then if you take truths as a given over a generation or two, they will no longer be a given.

So I, I will tell everybody watching or listening that I am certain that one of the reasons that we have such a close bond is that it is in our DNA not to accept what doesn't make sense.

Yes, yes, I've always been like that too.

Exactly. I know that. I, I just surmise that. But I want people listening to understand how easy it is for people to say what doesn't make sense. And, and I, I, I go back to it because it's so ubiquitous and so obvious. Men give birth. Men menstruate. Uh, allow men to compete against women so long as they say they're women. I mean, these things don't make sense. The issue isn't, isn't even just moral. They— and yet And people accept that the— that we will kick out of the armed forces 2 years after COVID, more than 2 years, we will kick out of the armed forces every single member of the Army, Navy, Air Force, Coast Guard, Marines who does not take a vaccination. The healthiest young people, when, as you know, I pointed out a number of occasions, Denmark doesn't even give it to people under 50. Except for the rarest of occasions. It's ironic, you know, I'll be heading to Denmark to give a speech soon. I'm going to raise this with them. I'm very curious how Danes feel about their government.

You are being modest. I have to cut in. He's giving a speech at the parliament in Denmark. You've got to talk about that, Dennis. You just said you're going to Denmark. He's one humble dude, everyone. But I'll brag on your behalf.

Thank you. It's very kind. It's very sweet. I'm, I'm a, I don't know if my red face can show through on the, on the monitor, but you should raise this.

I'd be very interested to hear what they say.

Oh, I, I, I'm totally curious about how, how people react to that. But Julie, as I've said, I don't know if you've heard me say this on my radio show, either Denmark is lying or Harvard is lying.

Well, I mentioned this a few podcast episodes ago, but it's worth raising again. So I have a dear friend who a few weeks ago told told me that she was going to get her 4th or 5th COVID vaccine. And I said to her, please, please reconsider that. We had to get 3 already to go for our last semester at Harvard. We were required to have 2 of the doses and then 1 of the boosters. So I believe on top of that, she got another vaccine and this was her 5th. And so I said, if I send you some articles, can you just please read them and consider reconsidering. And to her credit, she said yes. So I called Dennis and Sue because they both have an amazing command of all of the research and information that is out there about COVID and any other topic. They're like my in-house encyclopedia. And so I called them and I said, what are the best pieces of evidence or articles I could send to her? And of course, Dennis said, well, tell her that in Denmark they no longer offer vaccines to those who are under 50. So I passed along that information to her, and with all due respect to my friend who I really adore, I thought that her response was so interesting and so indicative of the naivete. Did I say that word right? Naivete? No. I'm, I'm, I'm conscious because I said it incorrectly the other day and my mom pounced on me, so I'm glad I said it right there. It does indicate to me, though, how ignorant people are. She said to me, well, Julie, you know, the reason— if the COVID vaccine was harmful, Denmark would specify that as the reason for them no longer offering the vaccine to those under 50. They've just said that they're no longer offering it to people under 50 because they want to prioritize those who are over 50. And my response to her was, are you really that gullible? Do you think that the Danish government or any government would admit that they were wrong to, you know, have vaccine mandates and force it upon young people? You really think they're going to say, oh, hey, we just forced you for months and months and months to get this vaccine. Oopsies, we want to retract that. We just want to be honest with you. No, they're going to do— they're not going to be fully transparent. Of course they're going to say that it's because they want to prioritize people who are over 50. What, does the Danish government have a problem with the amount of COVID vaccines? They're certainly not lacking. It's not a resources problem. But can you, can you imagine, again, with all due respect to my friend, I love her, but can you imagine being that gullible? It shows what the education system has done to us.

Anyway, why did they come up with this idea now?

Exactly.

They had years to, to confine it to older people. What happened? They obviously have new evidence. Yeah. It's useless. It's not harmful for people under 50. Yes, I believe harmful. I believe more harmful than useful.

And I also sent her this article that your wife Sue sent to me that I didn't even know that the COVID boosters were not even tested on human beings. They were only tested on mice. And so what's interesting here is that, again, when I, when I sent this information to my friend, she didn't really take it to heart and she decided to go on and get her fifth shot. Look, it's totally her prerogative. I make I disagree with her decision, but I respect it. But I want to bring this back to a point that we've been coming back to a bit throughout this episode, and it's that everything that is good in life is hard to attain. Being a rational thinker is a hard pursuit. It is much easier to embrace the default setting that, you know, for my friend, I could just tell that it was too psychologically emotionally, intellectually difficult for her to process that what she has been told about the COVID vaccines for the past 2 years may not be right. So she would rather go with her default setting of accepting that getting all of these boosters is a good thing than face this new information and do the intellectual and emotional hard work to better understand the issue and perhaps change her perspective on it. I, I just think that is— you said to me once, Dennis, you may have even said it on this program, that if you could say anything to young kids, if you could teach one lesson to them starting at a very young age, it would be the following 3 words: life is hard. That is so important. Everything in life, everything that is good in life, that is worth attaining is very difficult. Not just a religious service, not just finding the right man, but creating the kind of mind that can function properly in the world is a very hard pursuit. Now you're smiling. We just smile at each other.

Yeah, basically that's true. So here's an example. I'd like those listening Just that notion, life is hard, which every single person listening, whatever their politics, they will agree with. How, how many of your kids have been taught that at school? The answer is zero. That's a proof, one of the many, that they get no wisdom at our secular schools. I think religious schools teach that. Uh, hazor im bidimah b'rinayitzohu. Those who sow in tears will reap in joy. There you go. There's one of the most famous statements in the Bible. Every kid who goes to a Jewish or Christian school learns that quote. Hebrew and the others learn it in the vernacular, like English or whatever their language is. Those who sow in tears will reap in joy. That's, that's the biblical equivalent of life is tough.

Yes.

You know, and if you don't know that, you're screwed. You can't, you can't succeed in life if you do not know that. It would be like saying to a would-be baseball player, it's a, it's a cinch to hit a baseball. Do you think that that kid will grow up to be a good hitter? No.

Well, what you're highlighting is a crucial addition to the statement that life is hard. It's not just that life is hard. But the fact that it's hard can lead, it can make you better and can, it doesn't always lead to good things, but can lead you to really good things. I was on the phone with a relative of mine who is conservative and happened to hear me on the radio and we caught up, which was a thrill. And he was telling me, you know, we, we haven't talked in years. So he was telling me all about his kids and the updates he has. And one of the things he said was that he has been unfortunately experiencing a lot of problems with his liver. And I said, oh my gosh, Peter, I'm so sorry to hear that. And he said, you know, Julie, I am grateful for the challenges that God throws me in life because it's an— I believe that he is giving them to me to provide me with an opportunity to transform myself. When challenges come at me in life, he says, I look for what it's going to teach me or how it's going to strengthen me. And I said to him, right there is the fundamental difference between the way that people of a previous generation think and the way that my generation think. When hard things come at us, we blame society. We don't even, first of all, we don't even consider how that hard thing may enrich us or maybe an opportunity to make ourselves better. The first thing we think about is blame. And the people that we always blame are anyone other than ourselves. But we never think of that second part. We never think about hardship as a way to enrich or better ourselves. And I have to tell you, Dennis, I wonder what is going to happen to many people in my cohort who are going to grow up and experience a lot of hardship in life. Look, my friends at Harvard, most of them really haven't had that difficult of lives. Growing up in America and growing up socioeconomically privileged, many of my classmates have had it pretty good. And one day we're— of course there are people who I go to school with who have had parents die or who have had tragedies in life. I'm not saying that's not the case, but again, in the scope of world problems, we have been extraordinarily privileged. And as time goes on, and especially as it looks like America is teetering on the edge of a cliff, I really wonder how people are going to react to hardship. I don't know if we have the right infrastructure to react in an appropriate way.

That's right.

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Well, we know now, at least we already know, that as you said, if there's hardship It must be somebody else's fault, usually America. It's usually America. And if you're Black, it's white people's fault. If you're a woman, it's men's fault. If you're Hispanic, it's Anglo's fault. That's, that's the lie. I mean, these are terrible, by the way, paralyzing lies, because the more you think your problems are caused by others, the less you'll work on yourself, who is usually the biggest source of your problems. So horrible for society, it's horrible for the individual to walk around thinking others are responsible for, for the bad things in life. That is why I always say there are no happy leftists. You can't be happy if you think of yourself as a victim. It's, it just, it's not possible. That's, that's the definition. It's in my happiness book, talking about which So apropos, you sent me, you know, this is not an ad for the book.

Yes, it is. I'm using it as an ad for the book. Buy this book, everyone. By the way, Dennis never tells me to plug any of his books. I do it willingly. It is— Dennis, you know what? If you want to hire me as an advertiser for all of your work, I will gladly accept because I believe it is that transformative. Anyway, I interrupted you, but seriously, anyone who hasn't read it, it will make you a happier person reading it. Go on, my dear.

Thank you. Yes, so you sent me a text. I could probably find it if you remember it. I don't need to look for it here.

I'll pull it up.

I can't remember one quote. Yeah, here we go. Okay, one second. Here. Reading your happiness book, life-changing. Key point: unhappiness is easy, happiness is hard. Every single person my age needs to be told that daily. So that's exactly a variation on the theme we are taught. Actually, right, happiness is a tough choice. It is easy to be unhappy. The unhappy are taking the easy way out in most cases. I'm not talking about, uh, you know, individuals who are terminal cancer physiologically. Or, well, even though cancer— the irony is I, I've known a fair number of people who had cancer, either died of it or, or had the horror of, you know, chemotherapy and near death. And, and even there, these, these people, so many of them chose to be happy. As I write in the happiness book, I have found no correlation between life's circumstances and how happy a person is. When the unhappy meet happy people, they immediately assume, oh, they had it easy, I had it tough. That there is no reason on earth to make that assumption.

That is a very conservative quote. And what's interesting is that I would imagine that once upon a time that was just something that people understood as common wisdom. But now if I heard someone besides you saying that, I would assume that they are conservative. The statement life, your life happiness is, or your happiness, excuse me, is not, there's no correlation between your happiness and your life circumstances because that's the entire infrastructure of the left is the dead opposite. It's that your life circumstances determine your happiness and determine your behavior, i.e., the whole poverty causes crime argument.

That you're, it's another great point. That's right. Isn't it interesting that you could figure out if a person is conservative or left on issues having nothing to do with—

Yes. Yes.

What you just said was revelatory.

No, exactly. And we, I believe we've discussed this before, but even the way that people dress nowadays, I can tell if they are liberal or conservative, not always, but 90, times out of 100, I can tell on a dating app based on the way the first photo of the guy or the way he answers the first prompt. I can immediately tell if he's conservative. You wouldn't believe how many guys nowadays, Dennis. I mean, I've talked to you about this and certainly a lot about this with your wife, Sue, that when I log onto these dating apps, these guys are wearing like I'm sorry, but feminine clothes. They have shirts with flowers on them, or they have shirts with the name of a band. I'm not necessarily saying that wearing a shirt with the name of a band is feminine, but the design looks feminine. And they have their hat on backwards, and it's in their poses. Like, they have a weird pose. Well, they'll kind of like put their hands on their chin and they'll look up, or they the way that they're sitting, they'll have their legs stretched out wide. And I don't know if they're trying to look like a gangster or trying to look cool or like a hippie. I have no idea. But when I see a photo like that, I just immediately click X because I know that they are— they don't have the same values that I have. And perhaps some hearing me say this may think that that's too great of a judgment call, but just the fact that that's the first way that they would choose to present themselves instead of a nice looking at the camera, not trying to make any kind of weird gesture, conventional photo. That's enough for me to say no. What's, what's your response to that? Am I being too hard on that?

Oh no. Look, I would love to go through and see 100 pictures of what guys put up.

I've done it with Sue and she has been appalled. We did it at Shabbat dinner. She couldn't believe it. Yes, she said, oh my gosh, what is going on nowadays? Yes.

Wow. So I'd like to do 100 females as well and see if there's a corresponding number who make a negative impression on people like us. I would be, I would be very interested Vegas in the case of females. But it— I, I, I want to go through the 100 pictures with you now. I'm going to put you on the spot. You— this is coming. You're— you'll be shocked, and you may even be annoyed with me.

Oh no. Oh gosh, you guys, if you are listening, you need to log on to YouTube and look at Dennis's devious smile right now. Yes, exactly. Okay, I'm prepared.

Jackie and Elliot. But, uh, I— it's still— it's, it's, uh, I'm, I'm still debating whether to say it.

Oh, say it.

All right, we're known, we're known for really being real and open. Take— you, you would— you're, you're obviously on, on dating sites, which I think is important for you to be. Any, any single person I think should be. Uh, so you have the picture to measure, obviously, and you want to find the man attractive. Completely understandable. All of that is, is, is natural, normal, period.

Okay, normative.

Normative, exactly. So what's your take on a A wonderful guy, good-looking guy, but bald.

Oh, Dennis. Dennis, why are you doing this to me?

We could drop it.

Oh my gosh, why are you doing this to me? Um, I think at my age, I would not want to date someone who is bald because they— I want to date someone around my age. Now, if I marry someone and later in life they become bald, I totally understand. But I think starting off dating someone who's bald, I don't know. I think my personal preference, with all due respect to the many bald men who I know and love, the answer would be no. But you know what, if they have— if there are— everything else is a checked box, I'm not an idiot. I'm not going to say no to a guy because he's bald, right? Okay.

Yeah, no, no, I'm, I'm interested because I'm just interested, uh, in, in everything, especially male-female stuff.

I want to think of a curve— wait a minute, we can't move on with me without me thinking about a curveball to throw you.

That's true. And I— wait, I'm putting up my pictures, my catcher's mitt. So it wasn't to give you a hard time, although I knew it would, but it was not for that reason. So as a man, I— men measure, measure women, obviously. But there are times when I meet a guy, and I've said this, when I think this is a good-looking guy. How could you not? I mean, it's obvious. Most men are in the very large bell. Some are, you know, in the very little narrow parts of the bell curve, really unbelievably good-looking or sadly very awful looking. But the vast majority are in the middle, and it's their personality, their brains, their humor, and their money that make them attractive to women, to be perfectly honest. Okay. But I, I see bald men who really look great, and, and I have all my mind here. Uh, so do you not see that, or do you, or is it an issue of age?

For me, it's more an issue of age.

Right. Okay, I understand that. Okay, that was what, uh, that, that is all I wanted.

So I have a— I don't think it's as much of a curveball but it's nevertheless interesting to me. I'm still going to think of a curveball. We should just do a whole episode where we're trying to throw each other as many curveballs as possible.

That's funny.

And just call it the Curveball. Um, okay. So my question for you is, if you met a woman who had a lot of tattoos, who you really liked, good personality, what would you have a problem with that? Would you be turned off by that? So like sleeves of tattoos, I'm talking about a whole sleeve.

Okay, I hear you. So I know terrific women with tattoos. Okay, just, just for the record, including my daughter-in-law, one of my daughters-in-law, and she is— she's an exceptional human being. So I want to make that clear. It is a non-issue. You're asking me though, if I were dating I happen to prefer women's skin to be women's skin. I mean, that is part of what makes a woman attractive. I just know that a lot of young men find women with tattoos very sexy.

Yes, it's true.

It may well be, in this regard, somewhat generational, and I would plead guilty to that. I, I do understand. Look, there's— like everything else, I think that there are gradations.

Of course.

I mean, what if, if a woman has tattoos, uh, on her breasts, for example? I, I don't, I don't immediately assume this is a bad human being, but I, I, I do immediately assume that she did something very unwise. It would be— I would love to know the number of men of her age that find a tattooed breast to be, uh, to be attractive, for example. I would be curious. I think that that's different from an arm, obviously, which you raised, and the levels. But I, I'll just say for the record, I'm not a tattoo fan. I've never been a tattoo fan. I think it's a very risky thing to get tattooed at 20 and think you'll be happy with it at 50. But that it— look, people make mistakes. If that's the worst mistake they ever make, they're doing pretty well. And as you tell you, I'll just—

no, sorry.

Yeah, it's okay. So there are so many tattooed people who come over to me at the airport and, and, and, and just tell me how much they share my values. It is— it has made an impression upon me. And the number of clean-cut people who, you know, are leading this country—

yes.

So, uh, I, I— let's put it this way. I'm not— I don't like tattoos, but I don't any longer assume that it reflects your character. That, that's, that's a very big change in my—

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Just explain Gina.

Oh yes, I'm sorry. I, I assume many, many of you listeners know, but nevertheless I should explain. Gina's my sister with very severe autism and she lives in a group home and there's this man that we've known named Miguel who goes over to her house and we've We've known him for a long time. He is such a quality human being and he has many, many tattoos. So that's just to say, I echo your sentiment that so many people in my life who have such great values have tattoos, which I probably wouldn't get myself. And then on the other side, I love what you just said. It is so true that a lot of the people leading the charge, you know, to tear down our country are quote unquote clean cut. They, you know, come off as just very—

Like your fellow students and professors?

Yes, yes. It's very interesting. I wonder, we have to think about that more. Why has that switch happened? I would venture to say that more conservatives nowadays have tattoos than liberals. Anecdotal observation, but still.

It, the sound broke up in the middle of your sentence. More conservative these days, what?

I would say, I would venture to say that probably more conservative these, conservatives, excuse me, these days have tattoos than liberals.

Oh, that's fascinating.

I wouldn't be shocked if that were true.

Well, so my clean-cut comment provoked that from you.

Yes, it did. So I'm wondering, why do you think that switched?

Well, here's an interesting, uh, I don't know the answer, but here is an interesting— that my line to my liberals or and/or left relatives is, why don't you preach what you practice. Why don't you preach what you practice? We always tell people to practice what they preach. My— all of my liberal relatives lead completely conservative lives.

Yes. Oh, is this so important? This is so important. I was having a debate with a libertarian economics professor at Harvard with whom I'm close, and we agree on some things, disagree on some things. And one of the our biggest points of difference is that I really believe in the value of our culture. That is the way that I would say that I am the most conservative. It's culturally. I believe in the importance of the nuclear family. I believe in the importance of Judeo-Christian values, of being a member of your community, et cetera, of, you know, protecting and honoring your country and not trying to tear it down every second you get. So I was having a debate with this about, um, about this subject with my LibEc professor, and he was saying, you know, who am I to judge if someone wants to enter in a polygamous marriage? Who am I to say that that's wrong if that's what they want to do? And I said to him, with all due respect, how would I— I really want you to answer this question honestly. Would you enter a polygamous marriage? Or how would you feel if your son came home and said, hey, Dad, guess what? I've got 3 wives now and I'm bearing you a dozen grandchildren from each of these 3 wives. How would you feel? Would you really accept that? And you can see, or I could see his mind sort of racing going, how do I answer this? And he, he said that he would have no problem with it. But frankly, again, with all due respect to him, I don't really believe him. And so it proves your point. I remember that was one of the first things, Dennis, I ever heard you say. It was, You have to practice what you preach, but you also have to preach what you practice. So many of these liberals are saying, "Who am I to judge?" with regard to many social issues, and yet they never practice them. They live in a two-parent household. They would never enter into a polygamous relationship. They would show up to work, you know, wearing clothes that fit them and not have gold teeth and, you know, not speak in slang. It's, it's just the epitome of hypocrisy.

It's an interesting question whether it's hypocritical. I, I think you're right, but it's not the first thing that comes to my mind. The reason that they don't preach what they practice is, I believe— see, I think it's cowardice.

You believe what? I'm sorry, the— it cut out. Cowardice, you said?

Yes.

Yep. No, of course, yes, you're right.

They'll think you make enemies if, if you preach conservative way, a way of life. Look, a professor at the University of Pennsylvania Law School wrote a piece in the Philadelphia Inquirer a few years ago. I covered this, I had her on my show, when she said middle-class bourgeois values are the best. And what are they? Basically, finish high school, get married before you have children, and get a job. Chances are you will succeed. Again, get a, get a high school degree, not a college degree necessarily, get a high school degree, get married, then have children and work hard. You do those, you do those things, overwhelmingly likely you will have a successful and happier life. And she has been hated by the, by her fellow law professors at some Ivy League school, University of Pennsylvania, at the Ivy League school she teaches, to the extent that they have moved to fire her, and they've already barred her from teaching first-year classes. Just for saying nearly all of them have lived. The vast majority of the colleagues who condemned her married before they had children.

We had Amala Epanobi on our podcast a few episodes ago, which was super fun. I love Amala and obviously respect and admire her very much. We had a bit of a disagreement though over the subject of whether or not we are at the worst moment our country has seen since the Civil War. You and I seem to agree that we are. Amala said that she disagreed, and she made a very good argument as to why she thought it was different. She said how many people that she meets who are rational and who understand that the direction this country is going in isn't great. I would just like to say, though, this example that you just pointed out is one of the principal reasons why I believe that this country is in the worst place it has been since the end of the 19th century, because there is no analog to this in our history. We have seen evil, we have seen instances of irrationality, but would you agree that this is in a new category? I see this as being in a totally different category from anything we've ever seen. Yes, the Salem witch trials were irrational, but at least that was confined to one summer of 1692. And they almost immediately rectified it, were filled with regret. Yes.

Just, just for the record, people don't report on that.

Exactly.

As I wrote 25 years ago, being on the left means never having to say you're sorry.

Yes.

It's the opposite. It is the opposite.

I didn't even know that until I read Paul Johnson's book, A History of the American People. And he said it was confined to one summer. And he said the thing that was remarkable and uniquely American, I love that he said it was uniquely uniquely American about the aftermath is that once it was done, the Salem witch trials, it was done and reparations were paid to the victims and the families of the victims and they all apologized. People were removed from their posts and they went on accordingly. There is no analog today.

That's correct. There is none. Our, uh, our service we're using is, is on its last leg. So I think we should, uh, we should say a somewhat early goodbye to everybody. We normally go about 90 minutes. Today is about 60. We'll be back in, in normal form, uh, next week. But we are so committed to having this up every single week We are. No matter where I am on planet Earth, all over planet Earth, like right now I'm gone for 10 days. It was not possible to do this in the same studio, but we figured out a way here using my laptop, of all things, from my Philadelphia radio station. So you are a joy in my life. You don't even have to respond with, 'I'm enjoying your life,' you know, because you know. Well, only because I didn't want people to think that's why I said it. Look, this is a beautiful thing. The— I— not only what, what we have created with our, with ourselves, but this podcast. I see by the reactions of people who watch it, I would say that the vast majority of people Or listen, go to another one and then another one.

Thanks for watching everyone, and next week we will be in person. You can follow us in the meantime at Dennis Julie Pod on Instagram and Twitter and at the Dennis and Julie Podcast on Facebook. And look out please for my new show Timeless, which will be premiering in about a week and a half. You're going to be seeing Dennis and Julie every Monday, and then you'll have Timeless Tuesday through Friday.

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