Dennis & Julie: Moral Catastrophe

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Hi everybody, Dennis Prager and Julie Hartman. Took us a long time, but we came up with the name Dennis and Julie.

It did take—

it could have been Prager and Hartman.

It took— it did. It took a few weeks. Do you remember that?

Is that true?

Yes, about a year.

That's what we ended up with.

Well, we want— you wanted to call it Two Generations or Generations.

Yeah, you know what, this is a problem. You remember everything.

And, oh, remember this one? Someone wanted to— someone not, i.e., the two of us— someone at the company wanted to call it, uh, Dennis and the Harvard Whiz. And we immediately went, no, no, no, no, it was Sean.

Dennis and the Harvard—

it wasn't Sean.

It wasn't Sean. It was the— but Beauty and the Beast would work. That, that is correct. I'm thinking though, I'm reflecting on that one. So it would've been the Harvard Whiz and the Columbia Media—

that's what you wrote back to the email chain. You wrote back like, what does this matter that she— because at the time I, I was a student at Harvard, but we knew that this was going to go longer than that. He goes, so we're going to call it the Columbia almost grad and the Harvard.

Exactly.

It's Dennis and Julie though.

So I just want to say on a personal note, when the music comes on, I get in a good mood.

When I show up to the studio, I get in a good mood. This is so fun. Oh, and I'm supposed to remind you to please subscribe to this YouTube channel. We've been forgetting to tell the audience that. I always feel weird telling telling the audience that. I don't know why I feel—

yeah, I— well, I know why I do. I have the dignity problem. I can't ask people, but it's not—

totally—

it's not for our sake. We're not doing this because it makes us— it does make me feel good, but it's not why we're doing it. We think we, we can help people see life better.

It's, it's so interesting that you just said the dignity thing, because I view it the same way. Even on my show Timeless, I've started asking people to like, comment, and subscribe, because that's how you grow your channel. You You have to remind people to take the action to subscribe. But again, I always found it to, I feel a little uncomfortable when I do it because at least for people my age, you may not see this as much, there are a lot of influencers in my generation that constantly, constantly go, subscribe to my channel, subscribe, and I just, I view it as undignified and as a bombardment.

And also you're not like them. It's not a putdown, it's just, It's, it's different anyway. But please, so how do they subscribe? How do they subscribe?

You click a subscribe button. So do it.

That's it.

That's it. Yeah, you just— it's just one button.

So I have a super duper serious question. You ready?

Which means it's—

it means it's really super serious. It is.

Oh, okay.

It is actually.

All right.

I, I'm trying to work this through. We're living in an age of madness. I was reading on my show about a girl at 13 had her breasts removed.

The one who's suing Pfizer?

Yes.

Or Kaiser Permanente?

Yes. 13. If somebody would have predicted this 10 years ago, there was Look, you know, I mean, this is my proof. It's on YouTube. It's gone viral, millions and millions of views. When I said on Bill Maher's show, you know, the left says that men menstruate, he started laughing at me. Who says that? And within a year, that if you didn't say men menstruate, you were considered transphobic. The speed with which people accept the absurd is frightening. But, but Mike, my question to you is It's a big one, and, and I'm not sure that— well, I'm sure there isn't one objective answer, but I'm still curious because you're you. Do you think that— I don't even think half— but do you think some serious percentage of your generation in America is aware of how crazy we've become?

I think there is a percentage, and I think that many are aware on sort of a surface level, but most I would say are actually woefully unaware of how bad it is. For instance, I was just in New York, uh, last weekend and I was meeting some of my, my friends and I went to a few parties where I ran into some of my broader peers from college and it just came up in conversation, the Twitter Files, because someone who I was speaking with was working in PR and And she was saying, you know, what I've learned from being in PR is that the media is really controlled. Everything that is put out there is very calculated and political. And I said, well, of course, look at what's come out with the Twitter Files where the FBI wire transferred $3.4 million to Twitter. They were meeting weekly with Twitter executives. The former FBI general counsel, James Baker, left the FBI to go to Twitter and he was single-handedly in charge of squashing the Hunter Biden story, Hunter Biden laptop story back in October of 2020. This person knew none of this. None of this. I said, do you know what I'm talking about with the FBI colluding with Twitter? No. This person who worked in PR had no idea.

There's no— and that's New York City with these supposedly most cosmopolitan people.

And also, I don't think that people— to your point, what you just brought up about a 13-year-old getting a double mastectomy— people Even if, again, on a surface level that they're aware of it, people don't process the moral catastrophe of what we are going through. It is a moral catastrophe to have a 13-year-old get a double mastectomy. I said the other day—

isn't it mastectomy?

Is it mastectomy?

I think so.

Well, you know what? Like you, I enjoy when I'm corrected.

Oh, I know that doesn't even occur. Yes, of course. Yeah, go on.

What was I going to say? Oh, with regard is one that you've really pointed out to me. And now when I hear other people say it, I get annoyed.

Correct. That's the proper reaction.

Yes. I said the other day on my show, and I thought, is this a little too dramatic? But I don't think it is. You know, we live in an age where people talk a lot about the sins of the United States—slavery, Jim Crow, our internment camps during the 20th century wars. I think that this moment, specifically the so-called gender-affirming Obamacare moment is going to go down in history alongside those other instances as one of the worst things that we have done as a nation. It's absolutely correct. It is morally catastrophic and cruel and sadistic beyond belief. Right, exactly. But to go back to your question, people don't know. Okay. And they blindfold themselves.

They don't want to know. So I would say that the average Democrat in this country does not know that girls are getting their breasts removed by surgeons? They don't know that. I think, I think they don't know that. Yeah.

Well, that's what you're saying. No, I think, I think that, I think that they sort of know that gender-affirming care is happening for minors, but they don't take, I don't know if this makes any sense. They don't take the intellectual step step to think about what that means. Well, right. So, okay, that's the—

that's essentially what I'm saying. See, I—

maybe I'm a little bit harder on them where I think that they're, as I said—

oh, I'm hard on them. They don't want to know. They don't want to know. Of course. I asked a, a relative of mine who was extremely bright, extremely, uh, high position in the intellectual world And I asked him about a year or so ago, and so relatively recently, do you have any idea who Jordan Peterson is?

They don't know. They don't know any of our side. That's right. We know all of them. They know none of us. Yes. So something that I've been thinking about that has— it's very eerie and, and very serious. Um, I was On the plane over, well, I, I have another plane story for you, but on the plane over, I was watching a movie called Valkyrie. Have you heard of it? It's with Tom Cruise and it was about a unit in the SS during World War II that actually tried to assassinate Hitler and to replace him. And, oh, I remember when the movie came out now that you mentioned it. Yes. Yeah. And the, of course, the, the assassination attempt failed and Tom Cruise's character and the other characters were publicly executed for, for plotting such a thing. But, One of the things that Tom Cruise's character kept saying in the movie was, I want to show my kids and I want to show Germany that not all of us were like him, that some, that some of us resisted. And again, I know this is really, again, serious, but I've been thinking so much about, so much lately, who would resist the Nazis among the people that I know? Or among people in American society? Who would resist slavery? Who would stand up to these things that we obsess about and talk about all of the time? Because right now in American society, it is one of the easiest times in history to stand up against evil. Yes, we are seeing specifically with the January Sixers that there are political prisoners in this country and that the government is increasingly becoming less impartial and persecuting people based on their political beliefs. But still, compared to other countries and certainly compared to other times and places on Earth, it is about the easiest thing right now in America to stand up against evil. And yet, apropos of what you just asked me, we don't see people doing it. Everyday people. And you don't even have to take a bullhorn or go on a national radio show to speak out against evil. It can happen at a dinner conversation where you can condemn this so-called gender-affirming surgery push that we're seeing. And people aren't doing it. And It's an eerie thought, but I go, if we were, if we were in Nazi Germany, or if we were in, um, in the Antebellum South, what would you stand up?

Dear Julie, I would ask you to read two of my columns from 2021. One was titled The Good German and the other The Good American.

Well, I have news for you. I've read both and they're wonderful.

Well, they're exactly your point. I now view Germans differently as a result of what's happened in the last 3 years and the acquiescence to irrational governmental authority and the hurting of people as a result, the damage done to children by closing schools. And yet the number of people who spoke out against it was minimal. Not to mention, I'll get— we'll get back to the barbarity of quote unquote gender-affirming care, which, as by the way, ironically is as Orwellian as the Inflation Reduction Act. Yes, it was the Inflation Increase.

Exactly. Slash the Green New Deal Act.

Exactly. So what I realized was there's no such thing as the good German. In other words, that concept, which was In other words, what would it say? The average German went along with Hitler. Most of them did not kill a Jew, obviously, but they did nothing to stop any of this that was happening. So it's called the good German. In other words, the German who did nothing. But the good American did nothing. And by the way, as an America lover, all of this has been very painful to me. My disappointment in half my fellow Americans is very deep and profound. Which is why I pose to you the question. You don't have to even deal with it now. You can if you want, obviously. For whom is the present era more painful? Those of us who knew a beautiful America, or those of you who know nothing else? And I don't have an answer to that, but it is a question I pose. So about people speaking out, I mean, what is being done to kids today by people in science? You know, it's funny, I always wondered Did you— one of the reasons we have this remarkable bond is that I think it's fair to say we're both preoccupied with good and evil. And I remember how often I would read, and it made a passing impression and no more, that whenever people were tortured by tyrannical governments, There were— there was a doctor present to make sure that the, the person didn't die and could be tortured more. And I thought, a doctor? A doctor would participate in that? And I've now come to realize, expecting doctors to be any better human beings than, uh, than chiropractors— well, they're doctors— uh, than, than plumbers or lawyers or anybody else. It's silly. It's just silly. There is a bigger mixed bag as every other profession. But you, you think a priori that being involved in healing makes you a better person. It doesn't. Totally.

Growing up, I idolized doctors. I thought that all of them were morally upstanding and outstanding people in order to go into that industry. And it's been a real fall from grace. To see what's happened during COVID how many doctors cowardly were cowardly in not speaking out against the vaccines and the lockdowns. So I really think even the past, you know, 5 years writ large of American history has been a big fall from grace for me. Again, growing up, I viewed our government as overwhelmingly competent. Institutions like the FBI, I thought, were very trustworthy. I mean, it's been— it's really been crazy to see. That's exactly right.

Well, so you're atypical, obviously. And I, I wonder— that was why my opening question was, how is your generation reacting to living in a mad time? And the answer may well be they don't know it's a mad time.

I— yes, I think they don't quite understand, because when you don't know anything different, I mean, I know I just said that growing up, I knew—

Well, you— that's you, right?

But also, I was, I was 10 years old. You know, you're sort of right. You're not clued in, really. And so this—

Well, I loved America when I was 10, and I loved it when I was 50. I mean, you see, I've had a lot more love time than you. So it's, it's tough.

Well, as I, as I wrote in the Wall Street Journal piece that I published a year ago, and as I've spoken about on this show— Exactly a year ago? Almost exactly. I think about It was March or February. February. You know, it was— I think it was the day, the day before Putin's invasion of Ukraine. I believe it was February 23rd because I remember and I read my journal back to my own personal journal, not the Wall Street Journal, to, to remember that time. And I remember wondering if the piece was going to go because they were— they told me they may have to hold it off if there was an invasion. Yeah. And it's just— I remember thinking at the time, under the wire, I just Just under the wire. The headline the next day was Putin.

By the way, apropos of that, but not of the subject, those— I've had those moments all through my life. You realize it's a very painful realization how the best work, the hardest work, but the world doesn't give a damn about you.

I know, and I wasn't going to say it because it sounds so, uh, egotistical. And they were like, just wait a day, just wait. And then, no, no, no, absolutely, he shouldn't invade at all. Like, you know why? I mean, obviously I didn't want him to invade at all, but I was thinking like, if you're gonna do it, just wait till Friday or wait till Monday, which I know is awful, but I'm being honest.

I want to say one other thing, yes, about, uh, the Wall Street Journal piece. So I've had a number of pieces in the Wall Street Journal. And I want every listener and viewer to hear this. This is— you and I, I can speak for you on this, but I know, certainly I know me, I always look for giant lessons. That's my— the way my brain just works. But yours does too. So People listening will find this fascinating, and this is very important for people to hear this. The day a piece of— one's piece appears in something as prestigious as the Wall Street Journal, it's a little high, and it should be, especially if it's one of the first times, which— and this was your first, and at your age, to have a piece in the Wall Street Journal is a big deal. But people should know that high lasts about as long as an ice cream sundae tastes good.

It's so true. God, you are so right about that. I even found that with, with getting into Harvard.

Exactly, exactly.

And it was honestly sort of a disappointment because for so much, right, why wasn't it a bigger high, a longer high? I thought I was going Skip down the street for 30 days.

Yeah, but somehow or other you have to go to the bathroom very similarly to the day before when you went to the bathroom. I'm being very real. Nothing changes. Yes, it's so true. That's very true. And that's what people should pursue goals that matter, not that bring highs.

Mm-hmm. Well, what I was going to say about my Wall Street Journal piece and I was saying that I argued it in the piece and I've argued it here, is that so many of us are deadened. I feel like that's one of my paradigms or my themes in broadcasting is trying to highlight that and combat that. And I think that shows that to an extent, people know that we live in a crazy world and they want to resign or check out from it. The whole, my whole article in the Wall Street Journal was how stunned I was that after losing a year and a half of college, my grade, we were sent home in the middle of our sophomore year, we lost the rest of that year and then we lost the entire the entirety of our junior year of college at home on Zoom. And then when we got back to Harvard, we had to wear masks. We couldn't have gatherings in our room of over 10 people. It was so irrational. You had to wear it when you were getting your food, but then when you sat down, you could take it off. I mean, the whole thing was just ridiculous. And the whole argument of the article was I couldn't believe how zombie-like, how resigned people were to this irrationality, especially after we had lost all that time. Because from my perspective, I'm like, I'm coming back. It's my final year of college. I lost— I had no college. I had no— I lost— I lost over a third of my Harvard experience. And I don't want to acquiesce to these dumb rules. And I see that not just with COVID I see that with almost everything. You know, I talk about so-called gender-affirming care, and there's sort of this lukewarm, like, yeah, well, you know, some people, you know, Some people really think that's the right thing, or some people— everything has this. People don't take a firm stance on anything unless it's approved by the adults, unless it's approved by the American elite to take a stand on it. So they'll take a stand against slavery, but then other things, there's this weird resignation and lack of life. And again, I think that actually does reflect that subconsciously we know that things are absurd, but we can't emotionally process just how much we've been screwed.

Yes, well, tuning out is easier. That's the good German thing. Oh, you know, you heard of Kristallnacht? Of course, yes. The Night of the Broken Glass. And that was before the Holocaust as such, but it was a big announcement Jews are going to get hurt. When one night they just smashed so many synagogues and Jewish businesses and beat Jews in the street, And so if I have no doubt that if you'd have asked the average German then, who's, I, you know, that, well, that was wrong, and then just go back to dinner. It, that, that's if you push them. If you pushed people, although I'm not even sure if you pushed half your generation, would you say it's wrong that if a 15-year-old girl says I'm a boy would you say it's right or wrong to cut her breasts off? I would be very— I would love to have— a lot of people would evade the answer.

They would— they wouldn't say yes and they wouldn't— they would evade the answer. And that's a problem. Just when you thought it couldn't get any better, Mike Lindell with MyPillow is launching the MyPillow 2.0. When Mike invented MyPillow, it had everything you could ever want in a pillow. Now, nearly 20 years later, he discovered a new technology that makes it even better. The MyPillow 2.0 has the patented adjustable fill of the original MyPillow, and now with a brand new fabric that is made with a temperature-regulating thread, the MyPillow 2.0 is the softest, the smoothest, and the coolest pillow you'll ever own. For our exclusive listeners, the MyPillow 2.0 is buy one, get one free with the promo code Hartman. MyPillow 2.0 temperature-regulating technology is 100% made in the USA and comes with a 10-year warranty and a 60-day money-back guarantee. Just go to mypillow.com and click on the radio listener square to get the buy one get one free offer. Enter the promo code Hartman or call 1-800-566-6745 to get your MyPillow 2.0s now. You know, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to— No, no, go ahead. Yeah, well, I think another thing too is that part of this deadening is certainly resignation. That's argument part one. Argument part two is that I think so many things are amped up today. The way that we speak to one another, even, I mean, all of this wokeism is very high energy, super amped up. I mean, when we are constantly being bombarded with your history is rotten, your culture is rotten, these words are off limits, This thought that— Your future is death. Yes. I think we are bombarded by so much intensity that when we are confronted with something that is truly morally intense, that deserves an intense response, such as mutilating healthy breast tissue of teenagers, we don't respond because everything else is so amped up that I think we just want a break of it.

That's what you think is behind the lack of reaction? Well, it's one part of it. No, no, I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just repeating myself. It seems to me that your article, since you mentioned that, is a big part of the answer. And I really— this is the part that frightens me. This is— I was— I'm really disappointed in this. There is no questioning. Yes, the obedience to irrational authority— wear masks had no scientific basis, don't go to school had no scientific basis. They were, they were the sheep-like behavior, whether it was Harvard or Idaho State, it didn't— it was identical. Although there might have been less acquiescence at Idaho State than at Harvard, I actually think the higher in the prestige scale, the more robotic the behavior.

That was my argument. That was my, that really our lives have, before COVID we were quarantined. We were in our rooms studying for the SATs and the SATs. That was your argument. That's right. And so COVID actually wasn't that different for us. It was just another thing that we had to acquiesce to in order to attain the next credential. We were so used to sacrificing our lives for the pursuit of the accomplishment. So what was wearing masks and staying home from school? How was that any different?

I want you to speak a lot. I want you to go around the country giving talks.

I would love to. Are you— are there perhaps something in Washington? Yeah, I'm stepping up my speaking. Yes. Where are you going to be? Next month in April, I'm going to Seattle. Seattle. Or a little, actually a little beyond Seattle.

Now here, I told you that the excitement of a Wall Street Journal article lasts as long as an ice cream sundae. So here, believe it or not, for me, and I've had both, books, it was a very big deal. Your book comes, it's a tangible thing. Somebody printed it, published it. That must be incredible to hold. Well, you're right, but it doesn't Right now, that doesn't last as long as an ice cream sundae, to be honest. I have— I haven't— did I tell you my reaction to my last book?

Yes, you did. But tell the audience.

Yeah, I had only one reaction. My internal reaction was not, wow, wow, is it beautiful to see it? So on. And it is beautiful. Just physically, they did a great job. But my only reaction was, when did I write this? But anyway, I— the point I want to make is there is something that lasts longer. Than an ice cream sundae, and there are certain things that last way longer. But speaking, it is, uh, for me anyway— I speak for me because I love people. I can't stand humanity, but I love people. Always said that. That's a high, and it has not stopped being one. People say this is a really good subject, but I didn't want to get to your airplane flight. Oh yes, if we—

but we never get to what we want to talk about. We actually never do.

So tell me if I've said this. I'll be very brief. If I haven't, I'll be longer. When I'm asked, Dennis, don't you get tired of all this travel?

I haven't— I don't believe you've talked about it.

Oh, you'll love this. This is so an insight into life and into me. I get this question all the time. So Dennis, you've been doing this for 50 years. I started, you know, as a kid, basically 21. That's a long time to do one thing. And aren't you, aren't you tired of all this travel? So here is my answer, which is heartfelt. I said, let me, let me, let me repeat your question as I hear it. So Dennis, aren't you tired of being brought to all these places around the world to tell people your deepest thoughts? Isn't that tiring? When you put it that way— oh, and to be honest, usually get paid. And I'm gonna say, yeah, I'm really tired of that. Oh, totally. It doesn't occur to me to get tired of it.

You just proved your thesis statement of your happiness book. Gratitude is the essential component, right?

But this is not made-up gratitude.

Of course it's not completely rational, but a lot of, a lot of media—

if I were to say to anybody my age or your age, hey, guess what, people, you live in LA or New York, people in Chicago want to pay for your airfare to come and speak to them.

No, you're totally right. And I view— I, you know, when I speak and when I'm going, you know, in a few weeks and hopefully after to speak again, you know, I feel the same way, but But trust me, a lot of people don't view it that way. A lot of media people are divas and they'll go, oh my God, I have to fly to my movie in Vancouver. Well, okay. I'm saying the first season.

So yeah, yeah, yeah. So here, maybe that's a giveaway. Maybe they don't find what they do half as meaningful as I find what I do.

Right.

Well, maybe going to see another movie ain't quite the same as telling people about good and evil and God.

Well, that's your sort of argument. I think you're on the nose about Hollywood people that they, they, there's a part of them that views what they do as shallow, and that's why they turn to these social justice thingies. Perhaps it's that. I maybe have a more cynical view where I think they're just total attention snobs and freaks. Oh, that's interesting. And they just want to bring more attention and good favor to themselves. So my airplane story. Right. I, this is, so this is my first time telling Dennis this story, so you're going to be seeing his reaction in real time. So I was flying to New York, And I, as I believe I've talked about on this show, I'm reading Bernard Lewis's book on Islam, totally because I'm just interested in it. I actually stole it from Dennis's library. Thank you very much. Borrowed. Right. That's true. I always return the books that I borrow after a few months, but I will return it. Honestly, you wouldn't even notice if I didn't return it.

Of course not. Exactly.

Because you have thousands of books.

If you read it, I'm thrilled. Exactly.

So it's a really great book. If any of you are looking for an introduction to Islam, I didn't know very much about it. He's such a good explainer. Anyway, I'm reading this book. It's a 6 AM flight, so people are probably looking at me like I'm this nerd reading my Islam book. And the person next to me, I suspected that he was Muslim because he was on his phone and the language was in Arabic. And we exchanged pleasantries on the plane. And then when I started reading the book, he turned to me and he said, my gosh, you're reading this book on Islam. I'm Muslim. Are you reading this for school? Are you just interested? Interested? And I said, no, I'm just reading it for the latter reason. I'm just interested. And so he was telling me that he's from Egypt. He actually was telling me he's a famous singer in Egypt. I'm not going to tell his name, but I Googled him on the plane with the Wi-Fi, looked him up. He was showing me videos of him singing to all these big crowds. And he was really nice. In fact, at one point in the plane, there was turbulence and I got a little skittish and he was sort of comforting me. Really nice guy. And so he's telling me about Egypt and he offered, you know, if I ever was in Egypt, he could give me a tour. We have that conversation. I hope you took his name. I did. I did take his name. He actually wrote down his number at the back of the book. So then I go back to my book, a few hours later, he turns to me and he goes, you know, I just want to tell you before, you know, we get off this plane, it's very important for me that I let you know that not all Muslims are terrorists. And he said, of course I know that they're not. And then he says, and the groups that you know, ISIS and Al Qaeda and the other terrorist groups, they're actually Western plants. And he's being dead serious. And I said, go on. And he said, yes, they're infiltrated by the West and the West has an incentive to make these terrorist groups commit evil actions because then it justifies more intervention in the Middle East. And so my immediate reaction was not to react and not to challenge him because like you, I want to learn. I viewed it as a way for me to learn about a different perspective, a different culture, different information being exposed to people. And I said, so what do you think happened on 9/11? And by the way, I'm aware that we're on a plane that is particularly turbulent, and I'm thinking, should I be having this conversation on a plane? And he says to me 3 things, and again, this guy is dead serious. He goes, well, you need to do more reading because what the media is telling you about 9/11 is not true. He said, first, all of the Jews that worked in the Twin Towers got the day off on 9/11. All of their bosses sent them home that day. So no Jews died on 9/11 in the Twin Towers. I'm just— I've never heard anything like this before. You probably— I've never heard this before. So I'm, you know, I'm listening. And then he goes, number 2, think about it. How could these pilots so carefully maneuver 2 planes into the Twin Towers? There's no way that they could have— a pilot from another country could have maneuvered it with such precision. And then he said, number 3, what, what really happened is that the Americans put bombs in the buildings and set off the bombs and then strategically had a, had a plane fly behind the World Trade Center to get the image of it looking like the plane had crashed into the Trade World Trade Center as the bomb went off. So I'm sitting there like, oh my gosh, it was stunning. Sorry, I didn't mean—

No, no, no. I'm more interested in what happened then. I mean, did you, did you continue the discussion?

I just kept asking him more questions.

And you got more conspiracy. Got more conspiracies.

And you know what, Dennis? This may, this may be a controversial thing to say. I didn't challenge him. On the plane. A, because we were about to land and I sort of wanted to get off and get on my way. I didn't think he was going to get angry, but I just didn't think it was worth it to have this conversation. I did say, sir, respectfully, I think everything you're saying is false. I said a baseline thing to resist, but I didn't get into a big argument. I mainly wanted to learn. And what was so interesting about that situation is that he was actually, as I said, a really nice, gentle person who was helping me as I was feeling sort of skittish. He was talking with me. He offered, you know, when I come to Egypt, he actually was very gracious. And so it was this, for some it may be this cognitive dissonance where this really nice person is saying this crazy, extremely harmful stuff. I, I just more took it as, look, this is— this person comes from a radically different culture from the one that I was exposed to.

Well, okay, so I'll react. First of all, it's— it— I— everything you said, I've heard. It's widespread in the Arab world. I couldn't believe it. Yes, but given what I see in America today If you— if an American were to tell an Egyptian, an Egyptian intellectual, obviously an English-speaking one, on the airplane, well, you know that there are people who so hate trans people they don't want them playing against women in women's sports. Have you ever heard of such hatred in your life as is taking place in America today? And the foreigner will say Americans are out of their minds. We don't believe less sick stuff than is widely believed about 9/11, America, and Israel in the Arab world. Yeah, we have caught up. We believe now, not only do we believe in things that are as nonsensical, I mean, for 2 years, Russian collusion with Donald Trump's campaign. Why is that less of a gigantic lie of conspiracy about a conspiracy that never took place than, uh, it was, uh, it was Jews didn't go to the Twin Towers that day? I mean, did they ever see the list of the dead? Does it not include Jews? Of course it does. The, the, the idea in the Arab world— I know, I know the Arab world somewhat well. I studied Arabic. I've been to many Arab countries. And there is a belief that the Jews control the West as much as Hitler believed it. It's a sort of weird compliment to Jews. There's a great joke. This was a joke told in the 1930s in Germany. So there's already a lot of antisemitism in Germany, and two Jews are on a train in Berlin. Not a train going out, it's a regular train. And he's reading the Nazi newspaper, and his friend goes, the hell are you reading the Nazi paper about? He said, the only time I read anything about Jews having any power is in the Nazis' paper. It made him feel good because he knew how weak the Jews were.

Wow. Yeah, I was, I was really stunned. I had never heard anything like that in my life. And, and I want to make it so clear to state the obvious that I certainly don't condone, let alone agree with what he said. No, no.

It's— although you wouldn't have spoken about it. It was, by the way, this— forgive me, I got to get it off. I got to get it while it's still up. There was another lesson to be drawn from this. I know he was a nice man, and I have now said over and over for the last few years, the amount of evil nice people engage in is very large. Yeah, not nice and good, let alone nice and courageous, have nothing to do with one another.

I think it was one of the most important interactions I may have had all year, and probably will have this year because it taught me so much. Because I saw this person who was so obviously very kind and so obviously brainwashed, and he was— look, he was just speaking about it with me like it was totally, very matter-of-factly. And I just got such a sense of— again, this is what I was saying a few minutes ago— he has just come from such a radically different background. That's not to say that I condone it, than I where this is, this is as normal and as factual to him as 2 2 4 to us.

Truth is the most important value. This is, this is the thing to drive home. You know, that I said to you that gender-affirming care is as Orwellian as the, uh, what was it, the Inflation Reduction Act. They don't affirm— let's put it this way— they certainly don't affirm your sex. The left has made up the difference between sex and gender. This was completely— it's a new creation. Gender was interchangeable with sex. It was— except it was used generally with non-humans. So for example, what gender is that noun in Spanish? Because either they're male or female words. Nouns are male or female in Spanish, as in French, as in almost every language, as in Hebrew. So what they did was they invented a gender-sex distinction. Oh well, sex is biological and gender is your perception of yourself. So, but it's an obliteration of sex as well. That— so gender-affirming care is sex-obliterating care. That's what they don't tell you.

It's so odd because everything is backwards. Everything that they say something is, is the exact inverse. What you just said. Yes. Gender-affirming care is gender-destroying care. Yes. Even President Biden, you know, recently vetoed this, this ESG bill that the House and the Senate passed to— for him to sign, which would allow certain retirement plans to take ESG and climate change into consideration. They voted that that should be overturned, that investment plans or retirement plans should not be allowed to take ESG into consideration. President Biden vetoed it. And one of his quotes was something like, like, this just allows your retirement plans to be influenced by what the Republicans want. It's like, no, by rejecting ESG, or, or by, by keeping ESG in retirement plans, it allows you to do what you want. I mean, everything is— everything, everything is the inverse. The way that they— of course, the most prime example is the way that they decry people like us as racist when they are the most racist people living in America.

Well, they're for Black dorms. Yes, and only the KKK were for them.

Yes. But what you say, what you said a few minutes ago about Americans believing conspiracy theories, that really did just make an impression on me because we think, we sort of think that some of the things that we believe are in a different category of what that guy told me on the plane.

They're just different, they're different stories.

They're different stories.

But the degree of belief in nonsense is equal in this country as among Egyptians like him.

And then the conspiracy theorists call the non-conspiracy theorists conspiracy theorists. That's correct. Yes. So this, you know, this is something—

that's why I feel for your generation. That's why that, that question shook me up when, you know, I get on my fireside chat, young people write in, and some, some young man wrote in, Dennis, how do I know what's true and what's false? By the way, you know my answer, right?

Of course. Which is brilliant. The people who are suppressing the truth are the ones who are lying.

Yes.

Yes. You know, something that has preoccupied me, and you're a good person to ask about anything, but certainly about this. Has there ever been a truth teller throughout history who hasn't been persecuted? No. Is there any hero or virtuous person in the Bible who was ever not persecuted or tested?

That's the way it works.

Isn't that? That gives me a lot of strength, I have to tell you. In times when I feel demoralized or when I'm arguing with someone, they don't— I go, you know what, there's never been a truth teller throughout history who's ever just been like, yes, people around them have affirmed their truth.

When you speak like that, you hear yourself in the best sense of the word. You, you, you give me hope.

Thank you. Well, you've, you've given me all of these ideas.

I mean, good. Yeah, but as you point out, so they had to resonate with you.

Instability, vulnerability, uncertainty, volatility, unpredictable— all of these words describe our banking system, as evidenced by the recent collapse of two banks. Julie Hartman here for AmFed Coin and Bullion. This was the second largest bank failure in history, and the Federal Reserve has been scrambling to keep this bank run from spreading. If you feel uneasy about having too much money sitting in the bank, you're not alone. Gold, silver, and platinum have had recent gains as investors look for safe places to park their money. Now more than ever, you need to call Nick Grovich, owner of Amped Coin and Bullion. Nick and his very experienced team of specialists will provide you with personalized attention, honest information, and sound advice. Be smart and be prepared. If you're interested in buying or selling, call Amped Coin and Bullion At 1-800-221-7694 or go to americanfederal.com. That's americanfederal.com. And this is a question too. I feel like you may have asked this, was one of the questions you were really interested in about maybe a year ago. Can you know if you're a good person without being tested or anybody else? Well, you asked, well, you asked, can you know who someone is without being tested? Right. I'm sort of asking, like, do you know if someone or yourself is good without being tested?

Well, that's basically the question. That is the question. What's your answer? Well, I asked that to Jordan Peterson in private. Well, not in private, in public and then in private. And he was immediate in response. No, we do not know if people are not tested. We really don't know who they are. And that includes ourselves. I think he's right. I think he's right too. That's why I repeat it. So it's an odd thing though, because here's the— here's this— I didn't do this follow-up question. I'll do it with you. Is, is there anyone living who has not been tested?

Yes, probably.

Okay, so my— I He would have said that too, because the nature of the question is that tests are rare.

I don't think tests are rare. Well, I do think there are some people who have— and by the way, a few, not, not a majority by any means, who probably have not been tested in their lives. Maybe they've been tested in the sense, okay, they got rejected from a college.

But no, no, no, no, that's not a test. Well, exactly. I believe that in America today, everyone is being tested. So there you go. And I mean that literally. I don't mean it as figurative. See, well, if you believe— here's a test. Do you believe that biological men can compete with women in women's sports? If you say yes, you have failed the test of decency and rationality. There's something wrong with the way you think. There is a sickness in your soul. You have utterly failed an obvious test, and it didn't even take heroism on your part. This is not— it's not resisting Nazis, or for that matter resisting Facebook and getting shunned by everybody you work with, which is a very bad thing. It's not the same as being killed by the Nazis, but it's a bad thing. But you— this— in this case, it isn't even that. Look at what happened. What's the Harry Potter author's name? J.K. Rowling. Yeah, J.K. Rowling. Do you see what the amount of hatred that woman has been subjected to? Oh, do you know what happened to Harvard?

At my dorm that I was in, I loved this dorm, Winthrop House, one of the upperclassmen residential colleges. They had a party for maybe it was Halloween, a Harry Potter themed party and all the people. This was this past year, so I'm a year out and I just I just learned about this from some of my friends who are still there. And everyone rose up and said, no, J.K. Rowling is a transphobe. And the faculty deans of the house, cowards, acquiesced to these people.

If you're not a coward, you can't be a dean. That's right. It's on the curriculum detail.

Yeah, they got rid of the party. They did? Yep. They got rid of the Harry Potter-themed Halloween party.

Was that reported in the Crimson or anywhere else?

Probably not. You know what, it actually sort of goes back to what we were discussing earlier, though I don't want to forget what you were saying now because I think it's important. People are so resigned to it, they don't even get that it's super effed up. I'm sorry, I caught myself. They don't get how crazy it is because we've become jaded. We see this happening all the time. If it's not a Harry Potter-themed thing, then it's a— I don't know what else. Wearing all white clothing, and that's racist.

This confirms my— by the way, it confirms my thesis, which I came up with talking to you. Now, when I asked you the question, are, uh, is everybody tested, the implication of my question to Jordan Peterson was it's most people are not tested. But it's not true. Now, by the way, I just want to make clear, not every subject is a test. Your opinion of whether the US should aid Ukraine at this time is not a test. I believe yes, and Tucker Carlson, whom I admire greatly, says no. That is not a test. It's a difference of opinion. Not every difference of opinion is a test. I want to make that clear. But if you think that men can compete against women and show their genitals in the women's locker room to girls, You have failed a test. That's not a difference of opinion. Right. The tax rate is a difference of opinion. Yes. That's not a test. This is a test. You have failed. In fact, I have obviously passion on it, and I, if I have passion on something, I will write on it. I am going to write on this subject. Your view of freedom of speech of— it will be the opposite of what people think from the title. Your view of trans women in, in women's sports is a test. Yes.

Well, you, you raise a profound point that we're all tested, though. You just said not everything is a test. Right. But we are all tested. Yes. And I think looking— I've always looked at my life life as that, not just in good or in bad moments, but in good moments. How am I going to handle certain situations in my everyday life? I view as a, as a test of my character. But when you asked me the question a few minutes ago, are there some people who aren't tested? I see and agree with your point. But the reason why I said no is because a lot of people don't— I don't know if this makes sense— they're not forced to take the test. The problem in America is that we have this elite class that advocates for policies that will never touch them, that advocate for undermining the system that they benefited from but will continue to benefit from. It's the typical, you know, people in Brentwood or on the Upper East Side advocating for defund the police behind their gates or in their doorman buildings. Or it's people who, you know, say that gender-affirming care is great. By the way, before I finish what I was going to say, do you know President Biden— I played this clip on my show— this is a deranged individual, deranged. I played on his show. He wants— he said in an interview that the states that are trying to outlaw gender-affirming care for minors are, quote, close to sinful. And he said that there should be a law that codifies a minor's right to get gender-affirming care. He said it should be in law. You know what? I'm sorry.

I actually It is in law, and you can come to California from anywhere in the country as a teenager and have your breasts removed.

He compared it to gay marriage. He didn't say explicitly, but he was essentially saying there needs to be a Supreme Court.

Well, I—

That is deranged. Yes. He needs— I'm sorry, and I try not to get this, but I, like you, get very amped up about this, and I try to be tempered with my words. He should go to jail. He and Rachel Levine and all of these thugs who are advocating for these kids to get their genitals removed, they should go to jail. Think about if you just like laid it out with plain facts. You have an adult who is taking advantage of a child who doesn't know better, who is not old enough to make decisions, and who is mentally ill. Yes. And who— and you are amputating them. You are, you are, you are cutting. I mean, how is that not a jailable offense? Right. Anyway, as I was saying, get a little heated about it, as do you. But it's, it's, it is beyond sickening. I think it's one of our most sickening issues today. Um, what was I saying before I got so amped up about—

bingo, this is one of the things.

Is everybody— oh yes. So we have the problem in America is that the class that makes these decisions are insulated from the consequences of them. That's right. So when you asked about tests, a lot of these, these elites, they don't have to take the test. They should recognize that they're being cosmically tested. They should recognize that their opinions and their examples matter. And that in itself is a test. It is. They can send their kids to other schools or live in different neighborhoods.

Not a logistic test. It's a moral test. Right. Which is what all tests are about. So you do— you know the character of these people, the fact that they're insulated. By the way, that I don't know how insulated they are in the trans issue. I'm not sure that elites are less likely to have their daughter at 12 announce she's a boy. I don't think so. Their elite schools are half the responsibility, half the reason for why there is this unprecedented in all of Western history upsurge of girls saying they're boys. This is completely induced by society. It really is.

I know this is the most colossally obvious statement. Do you sometimes just take a step back and go, how can it be this nuts?

I take a step back all the time. How? Because I— oh, and by the way, look, I said it again on the radio today. I, I have— it's— I'm rarely tongue-tied. I have come to entertain the possibility of a devil. It has been so diabolic what I have experienced in the last 3 years. It is hard to explain on rational grounds the madness that has taken over, uh, that, that at Harvard they won't have a Harry Potter Halloween party because J.K. Rowling doesn't want biological men to compete against women? Do you know that they have even allowed that now? A Minnesota judge ruled that a man who says he's a woman can compete against women in powerlifting.

So you know what fascinates me? And again, going back to this movie that I watched on the plane, my plane ride was very eventful, evidently. Vulgarity about the SS officers who wanted to assassinate Hitler. What was so interesting in that movie, and again, it made me think of a lot of people today, is that a lot of people, a lot of the SS officers rallied around Tom Cruise's character, who was the leader in trying to assassinate Hitler. And the second the plot failed, they immediately went back to being pro-Hitler SS guards. Like, they literally in the movie did an excellent, I thought, excellent job of highlighting this. Dennis Prager. They're on their tanks going in to take over certain buildings to rid the pro-Hitler SS officers. And then Hitler gets on the phone with one of the SS officers and says, I'm alive, go back to your orders. And the same SS officers turn on a dime and support Hitler again. And it makes me think of people now. What if the pendulum swung? So it's not, what if some miracle happened where wokeism was eliminated? Would these people who are out in the streets with shaved hair and blue hair and pronoun pins, would they be like the SS officers who threw out and then went back to being normal people?

I don't know. I don't know either.

Isn't that interesting to think about? Totally. It's like, and then it also raises the question, is it harder to convert someone with a bad moral compass? Or no moral compass at all. Even if you look at some of the people who have become conservatives after being uber, uber radical leftists, there actually are a lot of them. I mean, Clarence Thomas was a Marxist before becoming Clarence Thomas. Tom Sowell, even Amala from PragerU. Dave Rubin. Dave Rubin. I mean, there are a lot of— it's very interesting to see some of the most prominent conservatives were super far on the left. So maybe it indicates that it's actually easier to remedy someone with a bad moral compass than someone who has none at all, that doesn't believe in anything.

Yeah, that's a tough question. I, I have, you know, I've been dealing a lot with the conscience issue. I actually did a preview video that's going to be coming out about how weak the conscience is in most people. It's useless. It's, it's like the appendix. I, I, every person who does bad is— 99% have a clear conscience. So what does that tell you about the conscience? So the question, and the question of moral compass, there are two types of moral compasses: the ones that are broken and the ones that are set in the wrong direction to begin with. The left is north, is south, and south is north all the time. It's not like a broken clock that's right twice a day. That's true. That's not right twice a day, right? It's set to be wrong. It's a phenomenon. What— whatever the— whatever the issue is. Normally we have happier chats, or at least lighter, which is— does— I'm only noting it as an interesting observation. It doesn't matter to me how the direction goes. I love the fact that we just talk about what's on our minds. But, uh, I, I just thought that was worthy, worthy of note. You know, I deal with the issue both in my personal life on a daily basis and, uh, in public life. How can you be happy in a dark time? And it's very hard not to be affected by watching my society commit suicide and watching Western civilization commit suicide, which is what is happening to the greatest civilization. The hockey team, the San Jose Sharks, NHL team, National Hockey League team, and it's LGBTQI+ I—

A+?

A. What is the A? Asexual. Okay. And what is the I for?

Who the hell knows? What is the I for? Sean would know. Is it intersex?

Oh, so I am— I'm inquisitive. I'm an LGBTQIA because I'm inquisitive. Okay, so they had an evening, of course, LGBT Pride. We got to talk about that, the Pride evenings. I don't know if we did. Because it's interesting. I have a lot to say about the whole issue of the Pride issue. But the Sharks tweeted out that, hey, and then they named various indigenous peoples or Indians, Native Indians tribes that had a word for a third gender. Oh, it stands for intersex, not inquisitive. So I was right.

You said that? I did. By the way, I'm not happy. Usually I can— I'm happy if I'm right about something. I'm not happy I knew that.

Right. Like there's— if it's a really large community, those who have ambiguous genitalia. Okay. Anyway, so they noted all these groups that lived in the Americas. Who had many genders. And it's true. I've done— I happen to have done research on this for my Leviticus commentary on the verse about homosexuality. And they're right. That is exactly correct. So please understand, a professional sports team tweets out in the 21st century that we should understand that primitive peoples, peoples with no medicine, no science, no equality, no democracy, no anything that we value, nothing. We should— oh, and child sacrifice, by the way, ubiquitous human sacrifice. We should learn from them about multiple genders instead of, hey, maybe multiple genders goes well with human sacrifice, no human rights, no democracy, and no medicine.

You have to have judgment. Even if a good civilization in the past did that, that doesn't mean that we have to. You exercise judgment and you refine with time. All of their argument. And you know what I mean? Obviously, this is a low-level concern compared to, to that— what was it, a tweet? Yes, tweet in and of itself. But it also concerns me that this is a professional male sports team tweeting this out. That show— that, that's bad.

I mean, the only player on the team not to go along with it said, I'm a Christian and I can't go along with it.

He's my— he's my hero.

Yes, he should be. I'll see, I'll check if he's single.

Oh my gosh, you know, I get emails from listeners. It's a good way to segue into, into providing the email address. I get emails from listeners who are trying to set me up, and it's so great. I think it's so sweet.

I love it.

I love it too. And you know, I actually get emails from, from, well, we're gonna do themselves, we're gonna—

oh, I would hope so. I would think so.

I—

we are going to do— not now. I want you to have a few more dates. Okay. But maybe in 6 months when you have hopefully a collection of dates, I want to know what you talk about.

Oh, now I don't want to say it because if someone's—

no, no, I know that. That's why I want to wait 6 months. Well, that's all I was just gonna say.

I don't want to—

I know, intimidate. Yes. Yeah. But you know what? But, but it's very interesting. I'm not completely certain that's the right attitude, which is worthy of its own Dennis and Julie broadcast. Because, by the way, I agree.

I go back and forth about it.

Well, I'll tell you, it's like I tell people, they say, well, I can't, I can't. There is a guy who works for PragerU who's single, and he goes on, he goes on these, these apps. And he's a good-looking, bright guy. He should draw a lot of women. And he doesn't put PragerU down. I said, well, why don't you? It will deflect the ones you don't want to begin with.

That I totally agree with. I put conservative. Yeah, they ask your political preference.

But if you say, you know, to be honest, what Dennis and I talk about are the things that really animate me and I would love to talk about them and light stuff too, obviously. Yes, it's not all I talk— it's not all I talk about, but nevertheless, to convey— I'm just— just a suggestion, period— but to convey that you love serious talk, I'll just give one autobiographical thing and then we'll have to wrap up. Up. So when I was dating at your age, this was a very real problem for me, uh, because I wanted to talk about God and evil.

That's exactly what I want to talk about. No, it's—

I don't know. And I realized, Dennis, you don't have a snowball's chance in hell in 99% of your dates.

If a guy sat and talked to me about God and evil, I know, I know, you would be totally— we would walk to the— to the altar. To the diamond store. Oh, the diamond store.

Oh yeah, I'm sorry, I forgot about that. You're a woman, yes. A guy thinks of the altar, the woman thinks of the diamond store. I like that. But yes, so anyway, just an interesting thought.

So you guys will like this. It's kind of embarrassing. So I was on a date recently and I sat down with the person and I was like, you know, this week— I shouldn't be laughing about it because it really is an awful event, but I'm laughing that I brought this up. I'm like, you know, this week is the 20th anniversary of the United States invasion of Iraq.

Oh no, you're cracking me up.

And they're like, we invaded Iraq. Yeah, exactly. And I'm like, can you believe, you know, we, you know, we, we ousted the Ba'athist government in 3 weeks. Painful. And did you know that actually so much of the, the origin of what happened in Iraq started way back in 1980 when Saddam invaded Iran after, after Ayatollah Khomeini took over in 1975. I should write up this thing. No, I'm kidding. He didn't run out.

Beautiful woman wants to talk about Iraq invasion. You wouldn't write that in your list of things.

I just— and by the way, you know, I love the Real Housewives. Like, I can be shallow. Yes. No, no, of course. Exactly. But I can be shallow for 10 minutes and then I want to talk about— right— Ayatollah Khomeini and Saddam Hussein. And God.

Yep, that's correct. Well, thank God you have this outlet.

Thank God, truly. You can reach us at julie@julie-hartman.com. And although we're self-conscious about it, please do subscribe to this channel. And what is the other thing I'm supposed to say at this moment? Oh yes, Dennis, what is our Instagram handle?

@DennisJuliePod.

Everyone is cheering in there.

I can't believe you would even test me. I, I mean, guys, give me a break. Give me a break.

Oh my God, we need to get him a cake or—

Yes, yes, that's all I need is cake. Exactly. Why does Sean look like Santa Claus? He's— No, like an elf.

He looks like an elf. He's the personal— he's a PL, personal leprechaun.

Oh, is that it? I never thought of that.

I'm— I have to tell you, in all seriousness, with his memory, I'm very impressed.

I am impressed.

It only took 8 times. That's right, only 8.

But yes, right. Yep. And now it's forever embedded.

Shalom, everyone. Bye.

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