Dennis & Julie: Spiritual Disneyland

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Hello everybody, I'm Dennis Prager with Julie Hartman. It's the Dennis and Julie Podcast. What number is this? Anybody know? 68. By the way, it gives you an idea of the speed with which life goes that this is the 68th. Incidentally, did we miss one since the first?

No.

I am very proud of that.

Me too.

There's a lot of travel and a whole host of issues that arose.

I, I think since grad lockdowns and— yes, I think since my graduation we've only had two over Zoom. Recently you were in Serbia. And then there was one other time that you were traveling, but that's pretty amazing that in the past year just two.

We were saying, for those of you listening or watching, we really love doing this.

We have so much fun. It's the highlight of my week.

It, it, that's an interesting question because you said it's not work, and it's true. But it is work. It's a tough one to answer.

It is.

Is it work? If you utterly enjoy doing something, is it work?

Well, when I guest hosted for you recently and I did hour 3 on Nietzsche, the 19th century German thinker, and I was interviewed the next day by, do you know Kevin McCullough? He's on CNN.

Yeah, of course.

And he said, Oh my gosh, Julie, you know, you do so much work for these shows. You're reading Nietzsche. And I thought, I don't really view that as work. I mean, it is, of course. I mean, the night before I'm reading—

No, so, but it is—

Highlighting—

No, it's fun. But my overriding question is a very interesting one.

It is.

If you thoroughly enjoy, I thoroughly enjoy this time with you. So is it work?

Okay, I have a response that may not be a direct answer to the question, but bear with me. I think the definition of having a successful work life or professional life is when you're doing something and someone watching you can't tell if this is your job or this is something you're just doing for fun.

That, that's a very good insight. And I can give a whole bunch of analogies. You know, you know how much I'm into music. So let's say—

Who are you, music?

Yeah. Exactly. So let's say go to a piano recital. I and no one in the audience can enjoy the recital if we think the pianist is working hard at doing what he's doing or she's doing. It's a perfect— it's an exact analogy to what you're saying.

That's really true.

Yeah. Oh, if you think that they're struggling to get every note right, you're nervous.

Yes.

You can enjoy it.

You have to put the audience at ease.

That's— you have to put the audience at ease. That's— well, no, yes, it's correct. It could be both work and fun. Of course he's right. That's true.

And look at it. I mean, my mind is racing during the show. I'm always thinking, you know, yes, how can I communicate something that's worth the audience's time? You know, when—

so do you know the only time I realize how hard 3 hours a day of radio is? Is really the only time when you do us after. No, when I'm on vacation.

Oh, oh.

And, and I realized, wow, I don't have to prepare the night before. Yeah, I don't have to worry about what's going on in the world. I don't have to get up at any time unless I just want to get up. And I go, I go to Sue and go, wow, Julie's guest hosting. This is great.

Yes, Julie's got to go do it now.

That's right.

Well, you know what I like about this show? And by The way I have found, and I've always loved guest hosting for you, it's an honor, it's a pleasure, it's a joy, it's really fun. But I'm finding it's getting easier, both the preparation and the execution itself. And I think it's because this job is so right for me in that it really is what I want to be doing.

I have— It is perfectly right for you.

I'm laughing because I feel like I find any way to transition to Jane Eyre because I'm reading it now and it's so captured my attention. I, I just wanna like scream from the rooftops that everyone should read Jane Eyre. It's not hard to read. It's so life enriching. But this show, Dennis and Julie, is so fun because I will read throughout the week for, for both work and for pleasure, or I'll kind of contemplate life. And this is the show where I can kind of bring it all together. I can take my insights and I go, if I'm reading it, and I'll go, huh, maybe that's not a timeless episode, but that's a Dennis and Julie point.

I, I completely identify, obviously, because I've done it so long. When somebody comes up with an idea and I say, I can't thank you enough, and they go What?

Mm-hmm.

You gave me a topic for a show.

Mm-hmm.

That's gold, my friend. That is gold.

Well, I just want to live an engaged life. Like, wherever I am in life, it could be fodder. Any conversation, whether it's with a taxi driver or, you know, any— like, if I see someone trip, I could— I'll analyze it and I'll go, huh, what, you know, how does a human being trip? Maybe I'll do a show on it. It's just— it's— everything in life can be interesting and fun.

I, I— so deeply identify with you. You want to understand life.

Yep, that's how we ended last week.

Is that right?

Yes, me and my memory. Minute?

Yes.

1 hour and 8:37 seconds.

By the way, you're going to crack up on this one. So I, I don't know, I pray I didn't tell you this because I hate repeating things to you, but because there's no reason to, you remember them. So did I tell you my test? You'll believe me, there's a link to what you just said, but it doesn't matter. We do tangents for a living. But in any event, so you know my test for whether you're really trans?

Oh no, I haven't.

Oh yes. Okay, so fine. I have a test. If a guy says I'm a woman, right, he's a trans woman. So I have a test. I have two tests. Okay. Number 1, uh, let's see, can you now find things?

Oh yes, you did say this. Well, frankly, Dennis, I, I hear your point. I disagree with the example you give. In my experience, men don't find things very easily.

That's my point. Oh, oh, now that you've become a woman, oh, you find it was—

oh, okay.

Yeah, I thought it was a trans woman is a man who becomes a woman.

I see.

Okay, so he just goes into the— into my earphone. Harvard.

Hey, right, we don't talk about that.

Yeah, don't talk about her alma mater in any disparaging possible way. Oh, I want to talk about your alma mater in a moment. Don't let me finish.

Here we go.

I mean, don't let me forget. So that's my first test, okay? Since guys don't find things— but by the way, I have a great illustrative example for you. So first of all, almost every man, almost every married man I know when they can't find something, they just immediately call their wife's name. It's just, it's a given. In fact, I realized, because I analyze everything, there's my— I have a way of saying Sue that means I can't find something. Yes, it's distinctive. Sue. I think that's what it is. It's not— in other words, there's no annoyance. There's— it's I can't find something.

Annoyment.

So let me— yes. So let me tell you the best example. I was in some city within the last month, which could be a lot of places. So anyway, I was in a hotel room and I'm talking to Sue, obviously on the phone, and I can't find my tablet. I just can't. I've looked all over. I can't find it. She said, the odds are, or maybe not even the odds are, look under the bed covering, because that's probably what happened when the, when the woman came in to do your room. She probably didn't realize if the tablet was in the bed and it's being covered by the, by the, the bed cover.

She was right.

Yeah. So she was 1,000 miles away and still found it. Okay, so anyway, that's test number 1. If you really have become a woman, Can you now find things? Test number 2, which is far more serious, is so you can't say you are the other sex if you don't start thinking like the other sex. It's just phony. You can look like it, you can have 52 surgeries, but if your brain remains the same as it was when you were a man, you're a man. I'm sorry, it's not a put-down, it's not an insult. It's just a fact. So for example, I— this I probably did say, but it's where I'll still repeat it if even if I did. So there was a test done of college students. They wanted to figure out what do men think about, what do women think about. So I've told you this. So they put—

it's so accurate.

Yes, they put it totally. So they put men in a room alone, not with each other. So a guy would, I don't know, 4 hours alone Nothing, just staring at walls. What'd you think about for the hours you were there? They did the same thing with the women. Hours alone, what'd you think about? So the men said sex and sports, okay, which is male brain personified in my opinion. That's how I knew the test was accurate. Sex and sports. They asked the women, and this was what I was dying to find out. I don't have a clue I knew it wasn't sex and sports. I knew it. So what was it? They reviewed conversations. This was the most illuminating moment of my understanding women that I think I ever had in one insight.

Spot on.

That's what women do, and that's why they can't sleep. That's why they drive themselves nuts. And of course, when I talk about men and women in speeches, I go, so folks, let me just explain to you, women On behalf of your husband, let me tell you something. When you say to your husband, honey, what are you thinking about? And he says nothing, he's not lying to you.

That must be such a luxury.

Oh, totally. Well, you know my line. If you got our brains for a day, you would, you would, you would be in heaven. You're free, free at last. If we got your brains for a day, there would be mass suicide.

Yes, it's true.

Yes, it is true.

But what's interesting, sorry to interrupt you and also sorry to take it down a bleak road, but men far outnumber women in suicide.

That's correct. Well, it's funny, women outnumber men in attempted, but it's not, it's a call for help.

It's a call for help.

Right, exactly. But you're right. No, no.

No, I hear, your point is taken.

So my two questions about trans women, that is men who claim they're women, Is one, can you now find things? Two, have you stopped thinking about sex and sports?

You know, I, I have recently— I've been thinking a lot about this trans issue because it's everywhere and it's gotten so obscene and insane and I think criminal. I think to mutilate the healthy breast tissue or generally is criminal.

It's evil.

It is evil. It is criminal. In California, there's a statute that will probably be passed which would classify parents as abusive in custody battles if they do not affirm a national Review made the point, soon it will not even be in custody battles.

If your child says he is a girl or she is a boy and you don't affirm it, they may just take the child away, even if it's a married couple.

Washington State, they have that in Washington State. They, they, if you, if a child runs away to a, a shelter or foster care, they don't have to notify the parents if it's because the parents didn't affirm their gender. This, this has gotten, this isn't left or this is what I said last week. The main distinction in America isn't left or right, Democrat or Republican. It's civilizational versus anti-civilizational values. This is front and center right here as an example. But I think about this trans issue a lot, and I'm a compassionate person despite what some leftists may think based on my political views. You know, hopefully the listeners know I'm very compassionate. And in college, when there would be people in the class that were transgender, you know, I would I would go by their preferred pronouns. I think I'm gonna stop doing that now because this, and, and, and by the way, it pains me to say, I, I, I really, sorry. I really want to get to the right place in life.

Who did you say you're sorry to?

To the mic.

The mic. Okay. On behalf of your microphone, no problem.

You know, when I get out of elevators and I'm alone, I go, thank you.

You do?

Yes. And I don't even realize I'm doing it. I thought everyone did that.

You said thank you to the elevator?

Yes.

You thought everyone did that? The fact that you said thank you to the elevator is remarkable. That you think everyone does it is incredible.

You know what I've also done sometimes, just to make it the Dennis and Julie tangent hour? Sometimes when I'm ordering takeout on the phone or speaking with someone on the phone, I'll go, bye, love you, because I'm so used to saying bye, love you to my parents. Or my friends.

That's adorable. That is adorable. Back to—

anyway, look, it pains me because I do— as I said, I want to get to the right place in life. I want to balance being judicious and being rational with also being compassionate. But so I'm not saying this with glee, like, I'm no longer gonna affirm the pronouns, haha. But there, I have really seen the danger of the assault on truth. And in any small way, I don't want to affirm that. I don't, in any way, I don't want to affirm this assault on truth. I think of Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn's Live Not by Lies. And I also think of your fabulous commentary that was—

Solzhenitsyn wrote Live Not by Lies? Oh, it wasn't Rod Dreher's book?

No.

Okay.

And I think of your commentary that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. And I put those two thoughts in a blender, live not by lies, and even your good intentions can still lead to bad. And what does it produce? It produces this conclusion I've come to. Even if I have good intentions in doing it, I can't do this anymore.

Well, I don't understand this. When you have a waiter or waitress and you, uh, you, you want to call them over. Very few people go, waiter or server, it would be rude, sir, ma'am. So why can't we just continue that? If you look like a sir, I call you sir. You look like a ma'am, I call you ma'am. Well, we're right 99.99% of the time. Why can't we continue to do that? If you, if you transgender so successfully that you look like X or Y, then I'll call you X or Y. You don't have to tell me your preferred pronoun.

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I think that's true. And I say this often, I said during the pandemic, for example, I said I want my grandchildren to know that Poppy, that's how they know me, that Poppy fought the lockdowns, that Poppy did not get vaccinated, and I will be proud that they have that memory of me when I have left this world. I will be proud that they know that I have called out the evil of the American medical establishment, of the children's hospitals, of all of these women— mostly women— pediatricians and surgeons and psychologists and psychiatrists who have pushed kids into having horrible things done to their bodies and to their minds. I will be proud that my grandchildren knew I fought this, just as the people who resisted slavery, the abolitionists, will be proud to know that their grandchildren knew they fought slavery.

It's— you're right, you have to set example not only for yourself and the people around you, but future generations. As corny as it sounds, it can be very inspiring and motivating just for someone to know that there was someone in their lineage who stood up to evil. It's— you're right. You know, I was talking, I mentioned, did I mention it this week or last week? I don't know. But, um, that, uh, Kevin McCullough on, um, here on Salem interviewed me.

Yes.

And he said something to me. He asked, what do people your age think about the political situation? And I said, you know, there is this view that has taken hold among, among people my age that if it doesn't affect us, we shouldn't care. Even the people who may think that this transgender stuff has gotten too crazy, they don't have the desire to change it or to actively resist it. And it's just an interesting thought because If you look back at previous generations of Americans, it seems to me that they understood that they had a responsibility not just to themselves, not just to their own family, but as I said a few moments ago, to future generations to carry on the baton of civilization and run with it, advance it, and then pass it on to the next. We don't view life that way anymore. We don't, we don't view ourselves as having any other responsibility to other people besides ourselves. And our personal and professional advantage. That's it. Even if from an outside perspective, we can look and see, oh yeah, I wouldn't do it that way, or I don't agree with that, we still don't think there's any need for us to go out and fight it because, oh well, it doesn't affect me. But what those people don't understand is it does affect you. If you think in a utilitarian way, you would actually stand up to evil because the evil will always come and get you.

By the time it does, it's too late, obviously. That was the famous statement by the pastor in Germany.

Right.

You know, first they came for the Jews. I wasn't a Jew, I didn't speak up. Then they came for the communists. I wasn't a communist, didn't speak up. Then they came for the labor, and I wasn't a worker. And then they came for me, and there was nobody left to speak out. That's a factor. But there's a related issue. It's not just posterity, and it's not just it'll affect me. So one of the reasons I am so adamant about people getting married is not only because I think it's best for them, it's best for society. Society is a, is a very big concern, and that is no longer a concern. You don't— people don't ask what is best for society. It is what is best for me. The society is not made better with sexual confusion, okay? It was better when men identified as men and women as women, and overwhelmingly love and marriage went together like a horse and carriage, as the song went.

That's sweet.

That was— you never heard that?

I haven't, no. That's, that's quite nice.

Oh, I didn't make that up. No, it's a very—

I thought, wow, Dennis, you're quite poetic.

No, I'm not. I'm not poetic at all. There's a very famous famous song, Love and Marriage Go Together Like a— Love and Marriage, Love and— I very rarely sing, but— Go Together Like a Horse and Carriage. That was a theme song, I think, from some sitcom in— yeah, Married with Children. Oh yeah. Anyway, that's— so just think of it. When I was a child, and I mean a child, I— it was— yeah, he's playing it now. Go together like a horse and carriage. This I tell your brother you can't have one without the other. You see, that's— that's— I mean, think about that. That was a popular song, that love and marriage go together like a horse and carriage. People don't realize that's good for society, that we have now— I believe for the first time in American history, we have more people living outside of marriage than inside of marriage. For the— I think it's the first time in American history, and I think that that statistic is accurate. This is a catastrophe for the country. It's not just sad for vast numbers of people. It's bad for the country. I'll give you another one, clothing.

Oh yes, we talked about this.

Which is a big passion of mine. I tell you, when I'm on an airplane, I average out airplanes every single week of the year. And I watch how people come on airplanes. Do you know that when I was a kid, people got dressed up to go on an airplane?

I do.

Now, now I would like to ask, it would be fun to ask your age group, not from the perspective of the individual, but from the perspective of the society, which would be brand new to them, the whole question, because it's only what matters to me, my truth, right, as often said. Do you think the society is better off if if people get dressed nicely to go on a plane— I'll use that example— or wear t-shirts. I believe most people your age would say it doesn't matter because the question would be meaningless to them.

Oh yes, I don't owe anything to society, right?

I only owe to me. I'm comfy, that's all that matters.

So I just recently did an episode on demographics on my show, Julie Noted, or the portion, the news portion of my show. And to distill it into one sentence, the Middle East and Africa, Central and South Asia are booming demographically. China has a huge demographic problem because of the one-child policy. Russia has one because of alcoholism and among other things, military conscription. Actually, they've lost a lot of young men in this war in Ukraine. And the West is dwindling because of these ideas that have taken hold about marriage. And if you look at Muslim-majority countries, there are two reasons why they procreate the way that they do. Number one is it's just, it's a religious value. In the Quran, the Quran talks extensively about procreation. You are fulfilling God's prophecy, if you are doing so, fertility in women is highly prized. That's one reason. You know another reason? The caliphate. The caliphate was essentially this ruling of a caliph, which was both a religious leader and unifier, if you will, of all of Muslims in the world. A lot of Muslim-majority countries don't like being divided among— dividing Muslims among Pakistan, Iran, Iraq. They want to be all under this one caliph that once existed now doesn't. And so there's this desire to procreate, A, because the Quran instructs you to, but B, because they want to see the caliphate come back. That is a forward-thinking, I don't, I have a responsibility beyond just myself. I have a responsibility to the future of Islam, to my children and grandchildren, to see this caliphate become achieved. And by the way, it may, it may become achieved. Do you know by 2050 Russia is supposed to lose 15 million people and 50% of Russia is going to be Muslim? It's amazing. So I'll just say this one thing, but that's, that's an example of the forward-thinkingness. When I, when you were talking, I was thinking of the Pilgrims. I have been reading about the colonial period thanks to Paul Johnson a lot recently. I, I know it sounds corny and nerdy and guess what? It's both, but I don't care. I am so humbled by the people who got on the Mayflower and can you imagine that bravery? That principle. That was— talk about forward thinking. I want to go to this new land and, and establish a country, and not just a country, the, the freest, most democratic country that has ever been known. There were 102 people on the Mayflower. 51 died when they got— when they landed at Plymouth, they, they had half of the people that they, that they set off having. You know what? They procreated. They got married. They had kids because they understood the responsibility they had to civilization. It's just, it's a way of thinking, as you identified, that we don't even contemplate. We don't, we think—

Here's an example.

You get married for me.

Do people plant trees like they used to?

Do people pick up litter?

Oh, oh, that's a good example.

They don't think it's their responsibility if they see a Coke can on the street to pick it up and throw it in their trash. I didn't do it, it's not my fault. Imagine if the Pilgrims thought that way. We wouldn't have this country, we wouldn't be alive.

And by the way, the trees is a real thing, We live in a desert in Southern California. All the trees were specifically planted by generations before, so we would have them. Are we doing this for next generation?

You know what it is, Dennis? I just had this thought, and it's probably not revelatory, but to me it is. We don't have gratitude for the past. We don't, you know, but Shabbat dinner, isn't it? But Shabbat dinner, I probably shouldn't have said his name, but cat's out of the bag. That's who we have Shabbat dinner with. Amazing rabbi. He recently went to a graduation and he was talking to me about how disgusted he was at this graduation, even though he said that the occasion itself and being with family was nice. But, but just the, just how political it was and how you graduates are the best generation ever. You're going to make a change. What he said was there was no sense of everything that you have learned, everything that you got at this university was because of the hard work and the accumulated knowledge and wisdom of people who came before you. The thinkers, the people who invented buildings, the people who clean the dorm rooms, it is all an accumulation of those efforts. And so no wonder there's no responsibility to plant trees or pick up litter or to procreate. We're not grateful for the people who did it for us. So then we don't see a responsibility to do it for the forthcoming people.

That was great. That's right. On the gratitude issue, you know my line, I think. When you go to college, you get a BA in ingratitude, you get a master's in ingratitude, and a PhD in ingratitude.

Yep.

In fact, I do believe the day you become a grateful person, you leave the left. There's no such thing as a grateful leftist.

Absolutely. Because that's conservatism. It's gratitude and reverence.

Or even liberal. There are grateful liberals.

Oh, fair enough.

But, but they vote for the ingrates. Liberals, liberals have good, often good values, but they, they ruin the society by voting for the people who hate their values, the leftists. But that's a separate question. It just— I, I just needed to say that the real ingrates are the leftists. And so when you become grateful Or it's my old riddle. I actually tell this to, to Blacks that I meet. They think it's hilarious.

Oh, I know this one.

What do you call a happy Black American?

A Republican.

Correct.

Okay, so I have another thing to say here. There's an assault on merit, which we've discussed on this show. What incentive is there for young people to work hard if they don't think their merit is going to be rewarded, if they think they're going to be chosen or not chosen based on immutable characteristics? It's difficult to know what to do to move the ball in a different direction when it seems that society has gone to hell. I'll give you a solution that I thought of recently apropos of this discussion about doing things that benefit not just you but your civilization. Go out of your way to reward people and recognize people when they do do something well. I was at a a restaurant recently, and I, I, the person who I was with, um, asked for this modification on her food because she had this allergy. And the, the waitress went above and beyond to make sure that, that my friend was comfortable. And you know what I said to this waitress? She didn't act like, oh God, you know, there's this modification, or, you know what I said to this waitress? I said, you're a true professional. You, you, you really are. You're a true professional. You're smiling. You're, you're taking—

how did she react?

And she looked at me and she said, Thank you so much. And you know, the next time I see someone pick up litter on the street, I probably won't, but I'm going to thank that person. And you know what? I just wanna tell everyone, 'cause I try to do this myself, if you go out and pick up litter on the street, people will notice you. They may not say it to you, they may not compliment you as I am encouraging people to compliment others, but they'll notice it. And I think it'll make more of an impression than you might expect.

There's a huge saying.

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Now, there's a Hebrew saying again which is known to every Jewish kid who has ever attended a yeshiva, a Jewish religious school. Avedah goreret avedah. Let's see, literally, a sin drags along another sin. Mitzvah, good deed, a good deed drags along another good deed. And listening to what you said, I now have a second explanation for a phrase I've known all my life. Because it's true, if you start doing good, you'll do more good. You start doing bad, you'll do more bad. That's just the way it works in life. That is what the understanding of that phrase is. But I realize now When you do good, it prompts others to do good, and when you do bad, it prompts others to do bad. So it drags along a bad not only in you but in others. So when you pick up— that's, that's my point. I was thinking about your litter point. That's when people see that.

You write about this in Genesis when, um, when, um, Cain kills Abel, right? Okay, good. I still have my wits about me. I didn't know if it was Abel killing Cain. It's Cain killing Abel. I knew that. And there's a line in the Torah, reason number 30 trillion thousand— I know that's not a number, I was a history major— why the Torah is great. It says when Cain killed Abel, he killed the bloods of Abel. There's bloods.

That's what it says in Hebrew.

That's exactly your point. When you kill one person, you don't just kill one person, you kill all of the potential progeny they could have had. Every good deed, bad deed has a compounding effect.

So that's a third explanation of the ver— of that verse or saying. That's exactly correct.

Mm-hmm. May I say one other thing?

Yeah.

Sorry. I know you were—

No, no, no, not at all. I was looking at what you were thinking of.

Oh yeah. I'm glad the viewer can't see my scribbles. They're not very eloquent looking. So Tom Hanks recently gave the commencement address at Harvard. For the class of '23. And actually, he talked about the American way. He didn't identify or articulate what the American way was. But he at least spoke those words in the speech. I listened to the speech, I'll be very honest, because it's Dennis and Julie. It didn't register with me. It was not the worst speech I've ever seen. It wasn't intensely political, but It wasn't personal and I didn't quite get what he was saying. I'm like, are you advocating for all of us to be Americans? Are you— I couldn't get it. He did in his speech talk about picking up trash. And as I was articulating the point to you and to our listeners as to why all of us should pick up trash, I was thinking, why I hope it doesn't sound like I'm complimenting myself, but why is the way I'm arguing it registering now, at least to me and hopefully to you, but the way Tom Hanks argued it didn't register? And it's because I think when people talk about these platitudes like, oh, pick up trash, they really have to understand and be able to explain why that's important. What I just outlined here, the gratitude thing, the passing on the baton of civilization, I hope that was a good articulation, a really good kind of push and argument for why you should do this thing. And I just, I don't know, I thought it was worth noting because it just—

Well, did he give a reason?

No, he was just, he said, you can make a difference in small ways. You can pick up trash, you can, but you have to, what I wish I could tell these commencement speakers is, you really have to make the case for why someone should pick up trash. Otherwise it's not going to register.

It just sounds like a nice thing to do.

It just sounds like a nice, and it's beyond a nice thing to do.

Just as how you go on the airplane.

It's a civilizational thing to do.

That's right, this is all civilization.

But they can't argue it to an audience 'cause they themselves don't understand it.

It is interesting, he was the commencement speaker?

Yeah, he's a great, I'm fine, I mean, he seems like a nice guy.

No, he is a nice guy.

Yeah.

From all reports. I, that's not the issue. There are many nice guys though. Look, as you point out, they could have been worse.

Oh, and there have.

Well, what was her name?

Mine. Mine.

Yes. Jacinda Ardern. Did you know, so, you know, she's going to teach the one who said, if you don't hear it from the government, it's not true.

Oh, and you know, Lori Lightfoot.

That's just what I was going to tell you. Lori Lightfoot in the School of Public Health.

Yep.

So I said on the show, on my show, so what does a typical Harvard alumnus think? Wow, I'm so proud to have a Harvard degree. They're having Lori Lightfoot teach there. Or doesn't this cheapen my Harvard degree? Of course it cheapens your Harvard degree. If Lori Lightfoot is teaching at Harvard, Harvard is not particularly impressive.

I hate to say it, but you're right.

Your degree has been cheapened by that appointment. That's an article you should write for the Wall Street Journal. Yeah, what they— what they— with Ardern too.

I want to write them with both of them.

The what?

The merit article.

Yes.

Why work hard?

Yeah.

Okay, so I, I have a Do we have time for this?

We do.

Okay, good. Do you mind if I go in a little bit to Jane Eyre?

Do I mind? That is hilarious. If you told me you, you have the Bronx phone book, I would be interested in your insight.

Well, yeah, that's true. You have theories about everything and you're interested in everything, and I think you'll really like this. So— oh, there goes my pen. Whatever. Thank God I have another one, but it's not fountain pen. I'm sorry. Well, you know what it is? I don't want to lose it. That's why I don't carry it around with me.

Well, there is a major disadvantage built into being a woman. You don't have pockets.

Yes, that is true. And your purse is like a bottomless pit.

I'm well aware. Yes.

Okay. Okay. How do I possibly explain how much I love this book? Dennis Prager. It's just amazing. It's digestible.

How much have you read of it?

I've read about a little under half of it.

And you're loving it?

Loving it. I'm actually shocked.

Is it one of the greatest books you've ever read?

It's one of the greatest books I've ever read, and I'm actually shocked that I love it so much because I like reading, but you know, some old books, even if I'm enjoying them, they can be hard. Sitting and reading this, it's easy. It's so enriching, and I'm just captured. I can't wait to read.

What is it a story about?

It's a story about Jane Eyre, who was born, um, an orphan. She had to go live with her aunt and her mean cousins who—

in England—

in England, they— who were mean to her. Then she was sent away to an orphanage because she just could no longer live with those evil cousins. And then she becomes a governess. That's a really— footnotes— so she marries Yes, but you're not supposed to know that. That's a little giving it away. It's a love story. It's a story about— it's just a story about human nature and about— she describes people so brilliantly.

Do you think she, the author, if I were to ask her, do you think human nature is basically good? What would she answer?

Oh my God, Dennis. Oh my God. I just— okay, now I'm really determined to get you to read this. She would say no.

Exactly.

This book, you know what's so amazing?

I knew that it couldn't be a good book if she thought this is the Bible in a fiction book.

This is what I love about Jane Eyre, and this is what I love about The Scarlet Letter, which I have on my set. It's not that the Bible isn't fun. I honestly think the Bible is riveting, but this is the Bible in story form. This is what fiction should be. Be entertained, but also have good values inculcated in you. And you know what's also amazing about Charlotte Brontë, who by the way died at the age of 36— she was pregnant when she died— she wrote this book, among others, before she died. She only lived 36 years, and this woman has such insight into people. She, she describes—

was she a best-selling author when she was alive?

No, I don't know. But when I go to London in a few months, I'm curious. I'm visiting her home. I'm gonna go to her home. I'm gonna go to her church. I'm a Charlotte Brontë fangirl now. I really can't impart to you.

So what were you going to say before?

Yeah, okay. So quickly, I'm going to read this one example of how this is a Judeo-Christian book, and then I'm going to get to the quote that I want to get to. I think this book has the best one-sentence case for religion ever written. So it's from this girl at the orphanage. Her name is Helen Burns, and she's mistreated by a teacher. And she's a very pious young woman. She's 14 years old. The teacher humiliates her, is awful to her, makes her stand on a stool in front of the whole class. Jane Eyre says to Helen, "How do you maintain your composure?" And she says that it is your duty— I can't find the quote right here, but basically, she says it's your duty to bear your burden gracefully. But then here she says, she's talking about her religion, and this is the one sentence, she goes, "With this creed," I can so clearly distinguish the criminal and his crime. I can so sincerely forgive the first while I abhor the last. With this creed, revenge never worries my heart. Degradation never too deeply disgusts me. Injustice never crushes me too low. I live in calm, looking to the end. That is religion. That is what religion can provide for you. Doesn't mean you don't fight against evil. Of course you should fight against evil. But when you have the gift of religion, it's true, revenge doesn't worry you. Degradation never too deeply disgusts you, and injustice never crushes you too low. You always have a reason to carry on. Okay. I'm sorry. Do you want to react?

Yeah. Well, I have a lot to say about it, actually. So my case for religion is overwhelmingly the moral case, as you well know.

Right.

Okay. Nevertheless, I do make the point And that's beautifully put. Secularism is hopeless by definition. That's the reason that they talk about hope so much. I mentioned this ironically on my radio show just recently. The motto of the Barack Obama campaign was hope and change. And at the time I was saying, hope? What the hell are you talking about? We live in a hopeless country, the richest country in the history of the world, more opportunity for more people than any place ever devised, more freedom than any place ever created. We need hope? What are you talking about? We're not living in impoverished Ghana or something. What are you talking about? But then I realized they're all secular. And there is no hope. You die, folks, and that's it. Oblivion for eternity. And whatever you did in this world, in the final analysis, for the vast majority of people won't matter any more than you know what your great-grandparents did. Just the way it is. Let's be realistic. You want hope? The only hopeful place in the world is in religion. And that's, that's, that's the point.

It's the perfect response because it, it synopsizes the point that I wanted to make. I feel like what religion does is it takes circumstances that you can and will encounter in your life and it gives you a prescription or a way forward with how to deal with them. When injustice or a stroke of bad luck or bad treatment afflicts a leftist, what is their worldview that they can plug it into? I don't know. With religion, there's a great prescribed worldview. It's, you know, deal with this gracefully, try to find a sense of humor.

Their worldview ultimately is destroy the present world, it'll get better.

So here's this line. This shows you how religion offers a prescription for the woes of life. I feel like you could probably— So there's another quote. The whole book is filled with—

No, no, I know that. But I mean about religion.

Yeah. Oh, oh, the whole book is quotes about religion. The whole dialogue. It's all religion without ever saying God, which is, I think, by the way, a great tactic, because sometimes it can be too forced on people. So it's a dialogue between Mr. Rochester, who's Jane's lover, or not, not at this point in the book, but the person who Jane's in love with, and Jane. And they're getting to know each other. And Mr. Rochester is talking about decisions in his life where he could have done better. And he said, I should have been superior to my circumstances. Even that one line, superior to your circumstances. Who even talks like that anymore? Who even thinks that way? Can you imagine someone my age thinking I can be superior to my circumstances?

Brilliant.

Isn't it brilliant? This is—

No, no, no. Your insight is brilliant.

There's so many— Oh, my insight.

Who would've thought something like that? No one.

No one thinks that. You think that your circumstances prescribe your whole life. There's no— conceive of being superior to your circumstances. I'm telling you, the book is scattered with treasures like this. He says, when fate wronged me, I had not the wisdom to remain cool. I turned desperate, and then I degenerated. And then he's talking about how he has remorse and guilt for things, and he says, you know, Miss Eyre, remorse is the poison of life. And Jane Eyre responds, repentance is said to be its cure, sir. Now before I continue, just that— look at this. He's saying remorse is the poison of life. Jane Eyre is saying repentance is said to be its cure. Remorse, problem. Repentance, prescription. That's religion.

You should write a commentary on Jane Eyre.

Oh, totally.

I'm not kidding.

But that's what religion does for you.

Yeah, yes.

Because then, but like, think about it. When you have remorse on the left, I don't know if they do have remorse. Seriously. I don't, I don't know if some leftists have remorse. What it, what it, what's the worldview that they put it through to make themselves better? Is there one?

Right. Seriously, do you— make yourself better? They don't think in terms that, that's my old line. You know, you, it's all the problems of your life don't come from you, come from your parents and from, from America.

Life, life is so hard. Life presents you with so many challenges and, and you have to, this is, this is my overarching point. You have to have a touchstone, a guide in order to get through it. A, to just be a happy functioning person and to be a principled person. You can't just try, as much as you may want to, you can't just navigate through life on your own. That's why you need Judeo-Christian values. This book is just, is an advertisement for Judeo-Christian values. It's a compass.

By the way, I was also thinking about the dialogue between the suitor and the suited.

Yeah.

It's hard to imagine a couple speaking like that today, which is sad.

You would, right? No, I mean, of course you're talking— of course the diction would be totally different, but even the sentiment. So you're right, couples don't discuss that, right? Hey folks, we are delighted to announce Dennis's next listener cruise with our friends at Coastline Travel. England, Iceland, and Greenland, June 24th to July 5th, 2024. They'll be sailing on the Regent Seven Seas on one of the most beautiful, luxurious ships Dennis says he's ever seen. The Seven Seas Splendor with white glove service, spacious rooms, and superb cuisine. Regent is a 5-star luxury line and all-inclusive. That means business class air, one night pre-hotel in London, shore excursions, unlimited beverages, gratuities, and of course, special events with Dennis, all covered in the cost. Visit spectacular places in Iceland, one port in Scotland, the Faroe Islands, and three ports in Greenland. As Dennis always says, the best reason to travel is the kindred spirits that you'll meet on the journey. These trips always sell out fast. Click the banner at DennisPrager.com or call 1-800-345-2483. Again, click the banner on Dennis's website or call 1-800-345-2483. Or email them at pragerlisteners@coastlinetravel.com. Again, click the banner on Dennis's website or send an email to pragerlisteners@coastlinetravel.com.

So your next date, what you should ask the guy is, so I'm curious, have you risen above your circumstances?

Are you superior to your circumstance?

Okay, that would be FUD.

I'll, I'll tell you a funny thing, shows you how much this book has has come into my life. So my roommate and I were shopping the other day for clothes and jewelry, and we came across this pair of earrings. And we were looking at them, and I tried them on, and I'm looking at them in the mirror, and I go, totally straight-faced, I didn't even realize how absurd I sounded, totally dead serious, I go, you know, my mom almost bought me earrings like this, but then we judged them too old-looking for my young countenance. That's hilarious. She looked at me like, are you okay?

So you're starting to speak— I'm starting to speak like Charlotte Brontë.

Yes. We judged it too old looking for my young countess. She's like, okay, we gotta get you off of this book.

That's great. That's— it's almost like after doing my Bible commentary, I'm tempted to say, how art thou?

Oh, of course.

You said, how are you? Instead of, how are you?

Okay, I'll give you one other line, one other, I promise, and then I'll be done. But it's— but it's It's on the subject.

So if on a date a guy said to you, you know, I just finished Jane Eyre.

Oh, where's the altar?

That's right. That's— no, seriously, gentlemen, can you imagine looking to marry Julie, of whom there are multitudes?

Oh, I'm sure. I'm sure.

Oh, I'm sure there are. Oh, okay. All right.

You're delusional.

I'm not. Okay, maybe you are. One of us might be. We both might be.

No, you are.

No, no, we can— no, no, I'm not. You are a very desirable woman. I know this means nothing to you.

Thank you.

Okay, fine. Thank you.

Okay, so Raj has—

But anyway, I just want to say, I would almost try to arrange it. That's some guy I would say, just say, you know, I'm just curious, Julie, have you read Jane Eyre?

Oh my God, I would fall over.

Of course.

You know what's sad? I wouldn't even conceive that that would happen. I don't even know.

You would—

of course that would never happen.

So Dennis put you up to this? That's what your reaction would be.

By the way, I was thinking you should come on the next date I'm on and just sit at the next table and listen.

I am not at all a nosy person. That's just not my nature. But I would do anything to do that.

I know you would. But they would be like, that's Dennis Prager at the next— oh yeah, don't you have a show with him?

That is an issue. Okay.

Okay, finally. And then, and then I promise I'll go find someone else to talk about Jane Eyre with. I would stop a stranger on the street to talk about this book, right? Remorse is the poison of life, Rochester says to Jane. Jane says repentance is said to be its cure, sir. And then, then Mr. Rochester starts going into this spiral of, well, basically, it's too late for me in life to repent or to reform myself. He's kind of in a slump before he meets Jane, and Jane with her Judeo-Christian values pulls Rochester out of his slump. He says, "Because happiness has been denied to me, I have a right to get pleasure out of life." I highlighted that. That's the leftist mantra. Happiness has been denied to me, I have a right to get pleasure out of life. It's what we were talking about earlier. Have no responsibility to anyone but yourself. You know what Jane responds? "Then you will denigrate yourself more, sir." You know what he says? "Possibly; yet why should I, if I can get sweet, fresh pleasure? And I may get it as sweet and fresh as the wild honey the bee gathers on the moor." You know what Jane says? "It will sting. It will taste bitter, sir." I love this. This is just— I wrote in the margin, "Classic debate." Why would you reform yourself? Why not become a hedonist if life is giving you a bad life? So why does she fall in love with this guy with those views? Because I think she sees potential in him. I think she's—

Yeah, women do that all the time. It's a big mistake.

Really?

Yes. Do not— you should marry a man, dear women, dear young women, if you, yes, if you see potential, but not potential that you will bring out potential. You— we don't change people we marry. That is a big rule. A lot of people have a savior complex. They will save somebody.

A lot of women.

Oh, a lot, a lot of men too, believe it or not. I will make her happy if I— if she's not happy, or I will X, Y. But you're right, women in particular. So just know you won't change the person. If you see potential in him— in other words, right now he's a struggling student, but I know he's a hardworking man— oh, absolutely, that's the right guy. To see potential, but not potential that you will inculcate, but that he will bring out of himself.

I agree with you. I do think, you know, one of the things I say about you, Dennis, is that you help me bring out my potential. I think there was a—

right, but I didn't befriend you, right, knowing, oh, this is what I could do for her.

And the hard material was in me.

Yes.

You know, like, the seeds were there. I just need a little water on it to grow.

Yes, that's right.

But you can't plant that— you can't invent and plant the seeds. The seeds need to be there. Um, um, and then, and then there's, there's another passage where, where, um, Rochester is basically saying he can make his own rules about life of right and wrong. And she said, "The human infallible should not aggregate a power with which the divine imperfect alone can be safely entrusted." "What power?" Rochester asks. "That of saying of any strange, unsanctioned line of action, 'Let it be right.'" Essentially, she's saying, You cannot determine what is right and wrong. You have to know your limits as a human being and trust God and the divine with the rest.

What year did she write this? Uh, the middle of the 19th century.

Yeah, 18—

middle—

oh, I don't know.

Okay, 1835. Yeah, middle, all right, or first third. Well, drop after the third. Yeah, but you know what, it was a rich time.

It was a rich time, and it shows you like there's just a totally different way of thinking.

Also, the fact that she would say to a guy— I mean, they're both young, right? Jane Eyre and—

well, he's a little older, but yeah.

How old is he?

He's about 15 years old. He's 40, she's 25.

Okay, so can you— she says sir.

Yes. Oh, and you know what they do at one point in the book? They, they, there's a big dinner party at the mansion. Even just the way they describe like the velvet chairs. And I mean, the whole book is just amazing. And they're, they're describing this party at the mansion. And when the, when the dinner has ceased, you know what they all do? They go into the room and they sing and they dance and they play music. I know this, this sounds like, okay, we know people used to do that. But really take a moment to contemplate that. When you're done with dinner in 1835, you don't have a phone, you don't have a car, you don't have a TV, you don't have— you go in and what are you just going to do? You've already talked with people all night over dinner. You have to start singing. What if you don't know how to sing and dance? Well, figure it out, make it up, do it there. They had to figure out how to have fun with just what we perceive as bare tools. But the irony is that they were probably richer tools than the ones we have now.

There's another book in light of this you should read, Amusing Ourselves to Death. Have you heard of it?

No.

You'll read it in one sitting knowing you. But it's— the guy wrote it in about this, then I think about the 1970s. I forgot his name. Amusing Ourselves to Death. And he, he's, he He pinpointed exactly— it's like it was written yesterday. The examples he gives are dated, but it's irrelevant. The points are— what's the difference? Why did I raise this? They amuse themselves. We are now— yeah, postman, right? We are now consumers of amusement. Amusement, not producers of amusement. Do you know the great majority of American homes, if they could at all afford it, had a piano? There were no records or streaming music or iPhones. There was no way to listen to music if you didn't produce it. So the, the, the average family had a piano. I would love to know what percentage of kids today get piano lessons.

Bible and piano was the two things you said that should be in every home.

That's right.

Well, if you look at the replacements, the recreational activities that people overwhelmingly engage in in 21st century America and not 19th century America, It's drugs, alcohol, food, TV, social media, and now we're seeing virtual reality headsets. What is the through line of all of those? Escapism, pacifying yourself, numbing yourself. Now one could argue reading a book or singing and dancing is a form of escapism, but that form of escapism brings you, I think, closer to life. Even though it's a bit of an escape, what I just outlined— drugs, alcohol, TV, social media, virtual reality headsets— that's an escapism that takes you away from life. That's what, you know, you know what that shows you? We are spiritually suffocated. We are so thirsty for meaning.

Well, that's why you love our Shabbat dinners. Yes, there is no escapism.

It's like spiritual Disneyland.

That's right.

Everyone needs, everyone needs a dose of spiritual Disneyland. And that's, that's why people are going towards the numbing things because they don't know that there's that spiritual Disneyland available to them. But it is, it really is. And I view it as my task as a host to bring it to people.

I love it. I do.

Well, thanks for indulging my nerdfest.

What you say is music to my ears. It's so, so wonderful to hear you say this. I want to go back though. I just, I'm, yeah, we only have a few minutes. I, so I'll go back to what most people think is truly insignificant and I think is extremely significant, the clothing issue. I keep coming back to it. You know what I'm thinking? Maybe PragerU should do a billboard campaign. Clothing matters.

No, I mean, yes, but I think they should do the—

God judges.

God judges you.

Yeah, well, that's my first choice. I'm going to talk to them about both. So here is my question. When I look at grown men come in onto the plane wearing a t-shirt, which is very common, I'm thinking, well, my father was a grown man. It's inconceivable to me to imagine my father going onto an airplane in a t-shirt. I think it's inconceivable to my children to imagine that I would go on a plane in a t-shirt. I wouldn't want to think my, my, my children would go on a plane in a t-shirt. Does that make sense to you?

Yes and no. I get it.

That's why I'm asking. I didn't—

planes, I think, are different. Honestly, it doesn't matter because planes are so uncomfortable. You're there for hours. You should really be in clothing that's going to be comfortable. You shouldn't be wearing a, you know, pajama set. I get that. But I think some leggings and a t-shirt on a plane is okay. I do. Now, if you would say church, your point is taken.

Well, church, they do think that it's okay. So what about, okay, in a restaurant? Not a fancy restaurant, a regular diner.

I think, I think a nice shirt, a nice looking shirt, not, not like a rock and roll band shirt.

Have you ever been on a date with a guy wearing a t-shirt?

Um, probably.

Did it strike you as an issue?

Sometimes dress has struck me as an issue, but mostly because I thought one time I went on a date with a guy and he wore really artsy stuff and I was like, oh no, no.

All right, well, stopping the art. No, no, but I really want to isolate because look, one could say my views are dated from the generation I grew up. Okay. By the way, that doesn't disqualify them. They may be dated.

But there are nice t-shirts and there are not nice t-shirts. And I think there's a distinction. I wish we had photos like—

so a Philadelphia Phillies t-shirt.

Oh, oh, hell no. No. If someone showed up on a dinner date wearing that. No.

Right. So you mean a sort of expensive t-shirt with a jacket over it?

Yes.

I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about a t-shirt, not a, you know, a nice shirt.

No, I would not. I would not go on a date. I would.

No, no. But it— well, you were already on the date. So the question is, would it sort of disqualify him? That's my question.

Unless he could really make it up for the rest of the dinner, probably.

Yeah, but if he did, you'd probably ask him on the second date, you know, you're pretty deep guy, do you— does it matter to you that you sh— that you show up, you know, looking like a peasant?

Oh my God, that's so funny.

That was a good one.

It was a good one. That's so funny.

Okay, on that note, uh, a Kulak.

You look like a Kulak.

Ladies and gentlemen, the number of people Julie's age who know the term Kulak is one. It is one. It is Julie.

What's a Kulak?

Kulak was a land-owning peasant.

Sean, you listen to Timeless.

Stalin killed—

Stalin massacred in the Holodomor. Yes, the Holodomor in Ukraine, 1932, 1933. Millions.

You're with the two people who know the term.

Okay, he's on for you, Sarah.

No, no, he does not deserve it. He's putting himself in the punishment room. Hey, listen, if you deserve the punishment room for not knowing what a kulak was—

he does, because I talk about the kulaks.

Yeah, you didn't listen on Timeless. That's what he should be punished for. Tell them how to get in touch with you.

But on a final note, I just want to say something. It may sound harsh, our discussion, like I would disqualify the guy who comes in with a Phillies t-shirt. It reflects a sense of dignity and character.

No, of course it does.

And respect for you.

I take the date seriously. That's what it means if you dress nicely.

Yes. I'm a woman of a certain esteem. I don't need, I'm kidding. I'm just sounding like a not peasant. Okay. You can reach me at julie@julie-hartman.com. You can also follow me and see videos of Dennis and Julie, especially behind the scenes videos pertaining to Cheese Puffs at Julie R. Hartman. And check out Dennis and Julie every Monday on this YouTube channel, the Julie Hartman YouTube channel. It airs at 1 PM Pacific, 4 PM Eastern. Take care, everyone. Shalom.

Your beloved dog and a stranger are both drowning. You can only save one. Who do you save? Every time Dennis Prager asks that question, his audience splits three ways. One-third chooses the dog, one-third chooses the stranger, and one-third aren't sure.

Why?

Because we live in an age where increasingly feelings define right and wrong. But if morality is based on emotion, then murder, rape, and theft are just opinions? And if people feel justified, why is rioting or destruction wrong at all? In his new book, If There Is No God, Dennis Prager explains why civilizations cannot survive without objective morality and why Judeo-Christian values shape the moral foundations of the free world.

If you claim that certain things are good, certain things are evil, independent of how you feel about it, You are, in effect, affirming God.

If There Is No God by Dennis Prager, available now at PragerStore.com. That's PragerStore.com.