Dennis & Julie: Strive For Truth

Your dog and a stranger are drowning. You can only save one. Who do you choose? Dennis Prager says your answer reveals everything about how you define right and wrong. In his new book, If There Is No God, Prager exposes the danger of emotion-based morality and why without objective truth, society descends into chaos. This isn't a religious book. It's a rational case for moral clarity in a confused age. If There Is No God from Dennis Prager. Order now at PragerStore.com.

Hey everybody, Dennis Prager and Julie Hartman. Therefore, Dennis and Julie.

Shalom.

She cracks me up with this. She's the non-Jew and goes shalom, and I'm the Jew and I go hello.

You know what I also do? I go l'chaim at dinners. Yeah, it's fun.

Life to life, to life. Do you know that song? No, but you know Fiddler on the Roof?

I do, yeah, I've seen it from that.

It's great. Fiddler on the Roof is a classic. Got a lot on my mind. By the way, one not critically important point, but Since we talk about ourselves, and not in a narcissistic way, I trust, but because people should know who we are, and that's part of the fun, really a big part of the appeal of Dennis and Julie. Real, two real human beings. Anyway, this is not some confession, just a point of interest. By the time this is aired, I will have been back from 3 days of pure uncompromised vacation. The first 3 days of no work, just vacation, in at least 25 years.

I'm, I'm truly happy for you. You deserve it. Tell the audience what your idea of vacation is.

Oh, well, I'm laughing sort of at myself because This is not something most of our viewers would ache to do.

Not even our viewers, just anyone. Actually, our viewers would be more likely than, than just about any cohort.

Oh, any cohort of humanity. So yeah, you got me to say it. I feel odd saying it. Nevertheless, so the world's largest Audio show, audio equipment show is taking place in Munich, Germany, and I am going there just for 3 days, then flying to Florida where I'll be at the National Religious Broadcasters Convention for 3 days, and then finally back. Not only is it my first pure no speaking, no radio broadcasting vacation, 3 days, But I'm not even, for the first time since we're married, going abroad without my wife because I took pity on her. What the hell is she gonna do all day while I'm listening to amplifiers, preamplifiers, and speakers?

You know, there probably actually would be a lot of fun things to go out and do in Munich. Sightseeing.

Yeah, what's the fun? What's the fun? She We both enjoy each other.

Are you going with Reed?

I'm taking Reed, that is correct.

His stepson, Dennis Prager, right?

Correct. With whom I have a very strong bond. I love him very much. He's a special kid and he really knows audio equipment. He's an IT man and he really knows. I trust his ears more than my own. If he will say to me, uh, you know, this there's something missing with this speaker, I would rule it out even if I loved it.

You know, there, as we both know and as the listeners know, there's so much we have in common. And you also have introduced me to many of your hobbies, fountain pens, fountain pen ink, you know, just to name two. But I can't relate to you on this. And that's okay, I like that.

I'm totally with you, I don't know any woman who does, literally not one. Do you— I'm curious, do you have— do you find great appeal in women's shoes?

Yeah.

Okay, good, good. So that's my good analogy. Women's shoes are to me what stereo equipment is to you, right? But your eyes glaze over.

But you like it when your woman has good shoes, I bet. No, really? You don't care?

I don't care. I care about every other thing she wears, but I admit I don't notice shoes.

You would notice if she had bad shoes?

I would.

Oh, of course. It ruins the whole outfit. You would totally notice.

I would.

I promise you.

Next time you're with Sue, you ask her, do you think Dennis would notice if you wore the wrong shoes with your outfit? There is no doubt she would say, are you kidding? Of course not.

If she walked into a PragerU gala in one of her gorgeous gowns that she wears, but in sandals, you wouldn't notice?

I don't know, but I can't say I would. In fact, my general impression is that if a guy notices it, he's probably gay. But I— and that's hardly anti-gay.

Just, you mean just the shoes part? Because you're right.

The shoes.

You're right. The other parts do matter.

Yeah, just like, uh, you know, it's so amazing that you can't tell truths. Like, is it not true that men in interior decorating are disproportionately gay men? Why is that like wrong to say? Is that an insult? No, of course not. It's—

well, you told me something once that first summer that I was working for you, and I learned so much, including wife is Sanskrit for flaw finder. You said, I asked you once, I said, you know, how do you decide whether or not to say something on air? Because I'm sure you, I, that was, you know, during the time of the January 6th stuff and right, the election. I mean, there was a lot of hot topics and you just said to me, I have a rule. If it's true, I say it.

That's right.

And I thought that's really, that, that has, that has guided me. And so with the example you were giving, if it's true, how can you be offended by it? I don't, I really don't understand that.

Well, you don't because for you truth is everything as well. But look, if you say, well, as I, I'll give you a personal example. A few, few months ago I wrote a column and I did it, I did a broadcast that women are disproportionately hurting children in America today. So I'm glad you raised this because this is a very important issue. The left never asks— liberals might ask and conservatives might ask, but leftists never ask, is it true? They ask, is it offensive? That's— truth is not a left-wing value. I say that every day on my show. I always give an example, and it is— the moment one realizes it, one must abandon the left. You could become a liberal, you could become a conservative, but you must abandon the left. So when I gave the data on, what is it, 85% of librarians or 85% of teachers, whatever the number was, are female. 90-plus percent are the librarians where you're having so many of these drag queens, drag queen story hours. And it's overwhelmingly women psychiatrists, psychologists, and doctors who want to give hormone blockers to kids at early ages. I mean, that's a fact. So either I told the truth or I lied. The question is not, is he bigoted against women? It's, did he tell the truth? That's a perfect example of why people can't tell the truth. Black, a Black is far more likely to kill a white than a white, a Black in America. There's no, it's not even close. Is that anti-Black? Is the other anti-woman? Then you can't say any truth, which is exactly what it is. The irony is they're the ones who then lie. Whites are all racist, right?

Also, the thing with the truth is that it has a way of leveling out, if that makes any sense. Yes, there are many criticisms to be levied at women, especially American women in schooling, but there are also criticisms to be levied at men. I mean, look at, look at the amount of, um, school shooters, with the exception of what was it, Audrey Hale, the trans— the woman.

Men are disproportionately involved in violence.

Yes. And so I think part of the reason why people don't want or have an aversion to telling the truth— excuse me— is that they think it's just going to make one singular group look bad. Everyone's bad, right? Every, you know, men and women and whites and Blacks and Asians and Hispanics and old people and young. I mean, everyone has their every bad part.

That's right.

So that's why I'm not afraid of the truth.

Feeling deep affection for you now. Oh, I'm not joking.

Well, thank you.

It's such an important insight.

And you know another thing, don't have that. So I've told this story before on Timeless. I may have told, uh, I probably have said it here, but one of the things that was very interesting to me in college was I found that people felt pressure to succumb to these binaries. Either they're on one side or the other with regard to the truth. This came up during COVID when I would talk to many of my peers about how irrational the COVID restrictions were, there would be some people who would say to me, you know, Julie, I agree with you that it's sort of ridiculous that we have to wear masks when we're getting our food, but then when we're in the dining hall sitting, we can take them off. But I hesitate to condemn masks because the same people who condemn masks are those who believe that COVID doesn't exist. In other words, it was— I'm either in the mask-wearing, COVID-is-around-every-corner camp.

Right. So you don't Choose based on truth.

No, people think—

what side is it on?

Yes.

And by the way, that's incorrect. Forgive me, but no, no, please. That line, then I'm with the people who say COVID doesn't exist. Who said that?

Well, exactly. I mean, that was always my response to them. It gives you an idea of how much they caricature right-wingers and conservatives.

Do you know what? You know what the president said in his speech?

The biggest threat to America's white—

oh, oh, oh, oh. It was worse than that. It was about God, no, no, wait, was it— oh, I'm going crazy because I read so much.

Yeah, you just did a 3-hour radio show. Give yourself a little grace.

No, no, it's not a little grace. This is really important. Oh, sorry, it was not the president. I take that back completely. So there's this left-wing site that is devoting literally hours, hours to, to criticizing and attacking PragerU. So I find it fascinating. And I looked at the latest segment of their hatred and it said, well, they are there for exterminating the transgender. Exterminating.

Oh my gosh. Yeah, it's sick. It's sick. Well, it proves my point exactly. It shows you the—

No, not the transgender. Oh, exterminate. No, no, no. I'm sorry. Exterminating the homeless. Oh, yeah. So where, where would they come up with that? Is there a hint at a PragerU video of killing the homeless?

Well, this goes back to our argument that we disagree on few things. You know, the cohort issue seriously is probably the biggest one. But another thing— the witch issue, the cohort issue.

Oh, if that's the biggest one. We're largely in agreement.

True. We disagree on the following though, about whether leftists believe in what they say.

You think they don't?

I think mostly they don't. I think they trick themselves sometimes into believing, but I think it's, they actually know that their views are inconsistent. You more so think that they really do believe what they say.

I debated it all of my life and I think that they talk themselves into it.

Yeah. But so that's what you have said basically.

Just—

Yes. But when you see something like that, exterminate the homeless, I actually have more faith in the intelligence of the leftist maybe than you do. I can't believe that a leftist would really think that exterminate— do they not understand the word exterminate?

I have something to bounce off you.

Sure.

I don't know what triggered it just now. About having faith that they're intelligent. So I just saw— you will love this, uh, I don't know how— a random video came up on my feed. Guy goes to Harvard, uh, in the middle of the square, Harvard Square, I guess. Is that what it's called?

Yep.

Right. And has a bundle of $1,000, a bundle of $1,000, another bundle of $1,000 in cash.

Oh wow.

You get these 5 questions right, you get, you get $1,000.

Oh, what are the questions?

Anyway, so I have a few. Oh, I remember this. So who was the first president to live in the White House? I got it wrong. I missed by 2 presidents. Um, I missed by 2.

Uh, God. Well, it's definitely in the 19th century. Yeah.

John Adams, the second president. Okay, so I, I, but I, I— the one, I wasn't fair, it was so hard. What is the animal that makes the loudest noise? That was crazy. So it was the sperm whale. Now wait, I know, so this was really not fair because one of the kids at Harvard said the whale. I said, well, what kind of whale?

Oh no, that's not—

no, that's not fair. Oh, of course, absolutely. Some— two kids got all the five right, and their excitement cracked me up.

Really?

Yeah.

Who wouldn't be excited? $1,000.

Yes, exactly. And cash. Yeah. Oh, he said to one of them, so you're going to report this to the IRS? Oh, and the guy swore— he swore on his mother's life basically that he would tell it to the IRS.

That's so cute. It was very funny.

So one of the interesting things that I noted was some of the kids were surrounded by other kids who were watching this take place.

It's fun.

And I would say that 90% of the kids that I saw just in the video— and how many did I see, maybe 20 in total, 25, maybe— that maybe 10% were white. Was that your experience at Harvard?

No, I think a lot were white.

That's what I thought.

I didn't really pay attention to it, honestly.

Yeah, well—

Because believe it or not, and I know you believe this, what I'm saying, I really don't see color at all.

Right, I see it, but it doesn't mean anything to me. I admit I see it. I have to see it because I talk about the issue tragically. I'd rather never talk about it. But anyway, I was just curious if they were representative of the class. I couldn't care less either way.

I didn't really pay attention. I think there were a lot of white people.

Yeah, no, I believe that, but it was odd that not among the people answering the questions. But it was a lot of fun, and I got a kick out of— I'll tell you, I was a little surprised that they were so excited to get $1,000 because I—

well, sorry, go on.

Well, no, I just think But that may be changing, that the average Harvard kid doesn't come from a poor home.

Oh, that's for sure. They're mostly— most Harvard students are very, very wealthy.

So I was, I was moved by the excitement of winning $1,000, given that fact.

Yeah, true. I mean, I feel like it's Just, it's basically just free money.

Yeah, that's true.

That's what's fun about it. And it's cash.

Yeah, well, that's fair. I get that.

So I gave you the COVID example. I'll give you another example. And this actually, and I recognize this in my own thinking and I realized it was wrong and I sought to undo it. During the 2020, summer of 2020, the Black Lives Matter summer when I famously, or not famously, but in my own life or between us famously became conservative. And I remember there was a part of me that was saying to myself, am I going too far in the other direction? Should I, in other words, should I err on the side of being more sympathetic to the cause of Black Lives Matter than not sympathetic enough? And I even had people in my own life echo that. They would say that to me. They'd go, oh, well, I would rather, you know, be, even if they're going a little too far, I would rather be too much on the side of perhaps changing things if it means doing the right thing than not. And then I stopped myself as I was having this thought and I noticed other people who were thinking the same way and I thought, why is that the option? Why is the option either you're with Black Lives Matter or you're totally against them? Why can't it be the truth? Why can't we just strive to get it right? Maybe the truth is somewhere in the middle. By the way, I don't think the truth is somewhere in the middle. I think the side of conservatives is far closer to the truth because Black Lives Matter is a fraud. It hasn't done anything for Black people. It's only harmed Black people. It's ruined the country. But I'm saying back, you know, when it was sort of still in its inception, I just, I noticed my brain going towards these binaries in the same way that that person who remarked on the COVID mask— well, I'm not going to criticize masks because the same people who criticize masks have these other host of beliefs. We should be striving for the truth. We should be striving on getting it right. And I don't know where this binary thinking comes from, but I can tell you it's very much prevalent among people my age. I'll give you a third and final example. I would talk with a lot of my friends in college about hookup culture and how modern-day feminism teaches women that it's empowering to be promiscuous or as promiscuous as men and that we shouldn't seek commitment. And I was criticizing that among some of my female friends. And I had a female friend say to me, well, you may be right, but I don't want to criticize feminism because the same people who criticize feminism think that women don't have a right to vote.

Do you know anybody who thinks women don't have a right to vote?

Of course not. It's ridiculous. It's actually a great— it's actually a very— it's a good question. I've literally not met a single person in my life.

Have you ever met a white supremacist? No.

Never.

None of these.

I've never met a racist.

I— exactly.

Honestly, I never did.

I met one. I'll tell you about him in a moment. Oh, you know, it's actually funny, but I, I mentioned you a couple of times on my radio show about you're looking at my mail.

Yes.

I'm a right-wing talk show host. And you never found one racist?

No dog whistles. If you're— if you're throwing out all these dog whistles, it's falling on deaf ears.

It's only falling on left-wing ears.

Isn't that amazing? Even because, look, sometimes you get crazy crazy email. I get crazy emails sometimes, you know, just from random people. They were never— I never saw anything that was racist.

Exactly.

Or sexist for that matter.

Right.

Maybe I saw one that was like Kamala Harris maybe is gonna die in a plane crash next. Like just a nutty email.

Yeah, but that has nothing to do with her being female or Black.

No, of course. It was just a crazy person email. I never saw racism or sexism.

That's right. That's exactly right. So what, what, uh, what brought that up? Because I wanted to amplify—

sorry, you were saying on your show you bring it up. Uh, I was saying that people fall into this. Have we ever met racists?

Or— oh yes, that's right. So, uh, I was going to tell you about the one racist I knew, my grandfather. You'll crack up.

Your grandfather was racist?

Yes.

But that's the new headline.

Oh no, but it's a very interesting thing. So my grandfather came from Eastern Europe. Came from, I think in his case, Austria. And he had endured a lot of anti-Semitism, so he had one of his traits, which I remember, I loved him, he was one of the relatives I loved. Not everybody loves all their relatives, so this is not an odd statement. But I did love my grandfather, my mother's father. My father's father died when I was 2, so I never knew him. My My mother's father I love very much, and he showed me a lot of love. And whenever it would happen, we were in the car together and we got cut off. Some driver did something really rude. He'd go, "Anti-Semite." Anti-Semite. Which cracked me up even when I was a kid.

Is that racist?

Well, it's that— no, no, no, it isn't really. It's— I'm going to give you my racist example. It's just an example of he basically assumed most non-Jews hated Jews because he came from a world where it was true. Hitler was Austrian.

Yeah.

So it's— it was just funny. And to this day I do that. I'll be submit, you know, like— and I remember saying to Papa, how do they know we're Jewish? The guy who cut us off is a little— even when I was like 8, it didn't strike me as logical. But the racism was genuine. He did not like blacks because his father-in-law was murdered by a black. His father-in-law came home to his Brooklyn apartment, found a guy robbing him, and he was beaten to death with a lampstand. I mean, it was awful. And by the way, I saw the headline. They found the murderer. I think he had fled to Virginia or Georgia or wherever. And then was brought back to New York to be tried. But the reason I mentioned A is I actually knew someone who did not like blacks. I knew the reason, which is, you know, it may be understandable, but it's wrong, obviously. But what is much, much, much more important and brings us to dominating issue in my life in the last month is he never acted on it. So here's an interesting thing. How did I even know he was, he was, uh, not a fan of Blacks? He loved boxing. And since I was his grandson, so he would come over for the weekend and then Saturday night we'd watch boxing together. I never got into it, but I liked watching it with my grandfather. And basically he would root for the white guy if the white guy was fighting a black guy. That, that was the extent of how he manifested his racism. I just want to note that. And we always had a black housekeeper who was like a member of the family, Ethel. I remember her so well. He treated her like gold. And as I got older, I realized Who cares what he thought about blacks? He treated them beautifully. And I have said that many times. I don't care if you like Jews. I care how you treat Jews. This, this— so this raises a very powerful, powerful question, because it's not only a division between left and right. The left monitors how you think. Just like North Korea. You're a racist if you have racist thoughts. Not, not in my view. You are racist if you have racist actions.

Yep. Prince Harry would have been behooved to hear that. He has accused his family of having unconscious bias. The whole— right.

That's the perfect example.

It's really sad. I was watching an interview of his recently and the The interviewer was saying, well, Harry, you accused your family of being racist. And Harry goes, no, I didn't. And the interviewer goes, oh, well, please clarify. And he goes, I accused them of having unconscious bias. And you know what? That's actually sadder to me than if they were truly racist, because what it shows is that Prince Harry blew up his whole family over nothing, over this invisible boogeyman. That's what's sad. That's what's truly sad about the whole thing. If it's true that Harry really doesn't believe his family's racist but just has unconscious bias, That is the tragedy, that he has just kicked them to the curb for nothing.

Do you have an example of a biased action?

Well, it's— I don't want to get off on a royal tangent, but I do know this subject very well because I come from a family of Anglophiles. He said in the Oprah interview, or maybe it was Meghan that said that, that a member of the family had discussions about what color of skin Archie, their son—

I remember that. I didn't understand why that was racist.

I didn't understand why that was racist either.

When —when there's a mixed marriage, of course you speculate. And you know what? I saw Harry in a subsequent interview. I have no doubt they speculated.

Of course, in a subsequent interview, Harry was talking about— he said, well, you know, I have this fiery red ginger hair, and I didn't know that the ginger gene would go on to the next generation, but my son Archie has fiery red hair like me. Is that not speculating what your child is going to look like? Of course. Why is it— when there's a mixed couple, you're going to speculate what the child's sex is going to look like.

Well, I have a theory anyway. I mentioned it on my show.

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I have a theory anyway. I mentioned it on my show that I, I thought Sean was not racist against anyone except those without red hair. So here you go. You are giving me proof. The red hair— those with red hair think they're superior. It's a fascinating thing. I don't get it.

He acknowledges it. I wish we could pan to Sean.

He's going— I know, I know, exactly. He's thinking, why do I work here?

But, uh, actions. I, I'm glad you brought this up because, as you know, I was having a discussion with someone recently about this subject. He, I don't know if it's maybe necessary to say, but it probably is. He's a devout Christian. And as you know, and the audience knows, I would call myself an ethical monotheist. I believe in the God of the Bible. I believe in Judeo-Christian values, but I don't know sort of theologically or denominationally where my home is. So it was a really interesting discussion. And I was making the argument that your actions matter more than your belief as far as admission to heaven. And by the way, of course, God decides, you know, but, but still, it's worth us talking about because although God decides what happens in the afterlife, we have to decide what happens in this life. And there's sort of this, like, on a micro scale with running a society, a sort of godlike judgment if you judge actions or thoughts. And I was saying actions matter more. He was saying thoughts do. And essentially, he was— he said they mattered more or mattered as much? Sorry, I'm sorry. Belief. Belief. I didn't mean to say that.

Oh, okay. Okay. Belief.

Belief in terms of salvation. Yes. And so, and by the way, this person, I'm not saying this person characterizes all Christians. This happened to be a Christian person. And I'm just relaying what he was saying. He was saying essentially that Hitler If Hitler in his final 2 minutes truly, genuinely believes in Christ, then he can go to heaven. I have to tell you, and I'm still exploring religiously, that is, that is hard for me to swallow, that you can commit a life of such terror and wrongdoing and then in your final 2 minutes believe and you're somehow exonerated. Meanwhile, someone who doesn't believe in Christ can live a righteous life and then they don't gain admission to the afterlife. That just That seems unfair to me. And so then one of the things he was challenging me on was he said, well, I— he said, because I had said, I think if you are mostly or overall a good person, then you deserve to go to heaven. And he said, well, what means mostly or overall? Does it mean 51% of the time you behave well and then that means you get to go to heaven? But if 49% of the time you behave poorly, that still means you get to go to heaven? And my response to him, and I'm obviously very eager to hear your thoughts, is, I said, in your scenario, someone can commit an infinite number of bad actions, but then in the end, believe. In my scenario, someone can commit a lot of bad actions, but as long as there's one good action in the end that outweighs all the bad actions, then that person gets to go to heaven. Obviously, both situations are imperfect and we don't know the answer, but at least in my situation, there's a net positive. Where in your situation there's a potential for a net zero or a net negative. Anyway, that was a lot to throw at you, but what are your preliminary thoughts?

Uh, so I've gone through a long process processing this. So for 10 years, as you may know, my first 10 years in radio, I was the moderator of a show with a priest, minister, and rabbi, different ones every week. For 2 hours, no commercials, so that's like 3 hours. All we talked was religion, theology, ethics, etc. It was great, and I learned a lot. And I would say, at a— by about the 4th year, I felt that I had had a graduate course in Christianity because I asked the Christian clergy, whom I often came to adore, Catholic and Protestant, Everything that was on my mind. I, you know, I'm— I need to learn, so I can't hide my questions. And then I looked one week, the issue came up because callers would ask. I didn't ask this much, callers did. So, so, Pastor, you're saying that Dennis, who devotes his life to bringing people to God and religion and the Bible, and to the best of our knowledge seems to be a decent human being, He goes to hell because he doesn't believe in Christ, and the guy who does awful things but then believes in Christ, he's, you know, he goes— anyway, so I remember one thing vividly. I remember the answer that most Protestant clergy would give. I'll tell you the Catholic clergy in a moment. And they were all— you'll find this interesting— it struck me that they were all troubled by it. And their answer would be, look, that's not my theology, that's my Bible's, meaning the New Testament's theology. What can I do? I mean, that, that's, that is our message. You have to believe in Christ to be saved. We can't get around it. So I remember thinking and saying to him, you know, Pastor— I remember the man, he was a— he did his own radio show for Christians— and I said, you know, it just occurred to me, you feel a lot worse about this theology and me, Dennis, than I do.

About your own, or about—

No, no, in other words, he— you feel worse about condemning me to hell. Oh, then I feel bad about your condemning me to hell, right? I didn't feel bad because I don't believe I'm necessarily going to hell, right? I might, but it's not because I, I don't believe because of my belief or non-belief in, in any given doctrine. And he said, that's true. And from that day to this, I realize another thing. A lot of Jews are offended by Christians saying, oh, you know, you don't believe in Jesus, you go to hell, or you're not saved, whatever language they'll use. And I tell my fellow Jews, wait a minute, why are you offended? That's their belief. You should only be offended by how they treat you. Do they treat— and forgive me, there's a final critical point. When a Christian says to me, and I have often heard from Christians, Dennis is the most prayed for Jew in America, and or non-Christian, and it's probably true. I'm not offended. It comes from the goodness of their heart. They want me to be saved.

As you were speaking, I was just thinking, you embody diversity and tolerance. Here you are sitting across from people who think that you are going to go to hell for your belief, and you still love them and appreciate them. And by the way, they deserve to be loved and appreciated. I'm not saying they don't, but I wish I could broadcast this to so many of these lefties who hate you and go, oh really, you think this guy is intolerant? There is no more tolerance to be displayed than sitting across from someone who thinks that you are damned for your beliefs. Oh gosh, of course. Bingo, bingo.

I'm forgetting, by the way, the fact that you picked up on that is really important. That is correct. And I'm consistent with my belief. How do you treat me? Which brings us back to— we didn't do a Dennis and Julie on the issue of thoughts versus deeds.

I think we did one a few— I'm sure we've— I think we've gone over it. Oh, because—

so then I don't want to spend that much time now.

Well, no, but, but I don't think we've ever gone through it in a deep extent. I, I think it's worth continuing.

Okay, so, so right now There are a lot of— a lot, believe me, as you know— articles about me in Christian, more Catholic than Protestant, but both places. And they regard the pornography issue, which I believe I've been completely misconstrued— I'm not even blaming people because Let me just put it very directly. If I could have a magic wand and all pornography disappear, I would use the magic wand. Okay, but it— the, the issue to me, uh, as I said in my Daily Wire, a brief interaction with Jordan Peterson at our Exodus, Book of Exodus seminar, was the difference between Judaism and Christianity with regard to actions versus thoughts. And that's more important to me because we don't really differ on pornography. We differ on that. And there is a difference. So let me first say, I don't care because I know my biggest allies are Christians. Right. In saving America and saving the West, Those are my biggest allies, Catholic and Protestant. That we don't agree on issue A or B or C— of course we don't agree on A or B or C. We'd be the same religion if we did. I mean, it doesn't, it doesn't bother me, but I'm a big fan of clarity, as you know. And, and obviously this issue, which just, just this week Crisis magazine had a piece on— well, Dennis Prager says It's actions and not thoughts, and that's wrong. That's not our position. And it's a very intelligent critique, and I have no problem with it. But it's like my grandfather. He had racist thoughts, but he didn't act on them. So is God going to condemn him for his racist thoughts? I don't believe— in fact, forgive me, I actually think God will say you're on a higher level than the guy who had no racist thoughts.

That's your nature thing. You—

yet you acted against your beliefs to do what is right. It's a very powerful argument. Of course it is. It's like I don't get any credit for not being an alcoholic. I get zero credit because my interest in alcohol is zero. I get no credit. My son, my second son, who was born to a meth addict because we adopted him at birth, he was addicted to drugs and alcohol for quite some time. Thank God he's now sober for 6 years, married, God willing, have kids. He's a fantastic kid. Anyway, Uh, he gets credit. The guy who wants alcohol, right, and doesn't drink it is in a far higher level. It's so— even like the issue of lust, the guy who never lusts, what credit do you get for being faithful to your wife? It's the guy who lusts and stays faithful to me, that guy gets more credit.

It's a good argument, Dennis. It's a really good argument. You know, one of, one of the challenges that this, this individual presented to me, and I think that it's right, is in your case, the person has bad thoughts but acts well. Well, what the person was saying is, let's say two people donate money to a children's hospital to help the sick. Does God judge them? Sorry. And one of them donates because he truly wants to help the sick children. The other donates because he wants his name on the building. Does God judge those two equally? The actions are the same. But the motivation or the thoughts behind them are different.

So, so the guy who gives solely because he wants to help the sick, did he oppose having his name on the building?

Maybe. Let's, let's say yes. Let's say that. Let's say he was anonymous. So it's just anonymous.

Okay. So that's interesting. In Judaism, according to the greatest Jewish thinker, Maimonides, there are 5 levels of charity. And the highest level is anonymous. Okay. He may be right. I don't know that he's right. I'll give you an example. I was just— so amazing. Just last week, I was talking to a Chabad rabbi. The Chabad is this great group. They have Chabad houses all over in every state. You know, the Chabad rabbi from Harvard.

Oh, yes. Which— we're dear friends.

We have to tell the story.

I've told it when I hugged the rabbi. Yes. Yes. Or tried to. And then I said, oh, oh, I don't have COVID.

So remind me, I don't want to get on the tangent. I have another story of a Chabad rabbi. Okay, okay. Anyway, he was telling me a donor to— he's in Pennsylvania, this rabbi. He— and I'm very close to him and his family. So he was telling me he was just visiting LA and he came by to the house. So he had a donor was going to give a very large donation but wanted it to be anonymous. So if he were keeping with Jewish thought, he would have said, "That is beautiful, thank you," because Maimonides, the greatest Jewish thinker, said that's the highest level of charity. He had a very good argument. He said to the guy, "Wait a minute, wouldn't it be much more powerful if it was known that you gave that gift so you could be a model to others, right?

It— no, it's an excellent argument.

So here's a recipient. He lives— he, he is a nonprofit. He lives like PragerU. We live on donations, and he is saying please don't give it anonymously.

No. Well, so do you think God judges them equally?

Okay, first of all, okay, But I'll give you another answer, which, if you haven't thought of, brings me joy.

It'll bring me joy too, by the way.

I know. I like learning. God, is that true? Oh God, Jules. Jules. So I don't know that any of us completely knows our motivation. And that's why it's not even worth analyzing it to any serious extent. That's why I'm a behaviorist. Damn it, do what's right. Well, I'll give you—

I'm sorry. No, no, that's it.

Do what's right.

I'll give you a— and I agree with you. Again, excellent point. I'll give you a counterargument though, for counterargument's sake. We do take intention into things. I mean, look at manslaughter. There's voluntary and involuntary.

That does matter. Well, that's to figure out was it an accident or deliberate. Not— of course it matters, but it matters because we have to figure out what the crime was. It's— if you murdered your wife in order to collect her insurance or because you were having an affair and wanted to cover it up, it doesn't matter. There, the intention is irrelevant. Evil is evil, but we have to figure out if it was evil, right? Did you— did the guy run in front of your car because he was drunk and a pedestrian, or did you aim to kill the guy with your car? It's a completely different act.

Well, one of the things that, that this person with whom I was having this great debate was saying is, you know, let's say someone drives under the speed limit because the only reason why they abide by the speed limit is out of fear of, of being pulled over. Isn't someone who drives because they believe it's the right thing and they don't want to hurt other people, isn't that person sort of better in the eyes of God than the one who is just doing it out of fear of punishment?

I have more respect for number one than number two. Yeah, well, that's your—

that's your—

I do. I'll take— no, no, no, I'll tell you why. It makes a lot more sense, 'I don't want to get a ticket,' than it does, 'It's the safe thing to do.' That's nonsense. The safe thing to do is drive the speed of traffic. That is the only safe guideline for how fast you drive, because the slow driver is as likely to cause an accident as the fast driver. People all swerve around him. And he causes tremendous delays. That's— if you want to talk reality, every 60— it's a 55-mile-per-hour speed limit and everybody's going 70 and this putz is going 55 or 50 not to get a ticket. Who is more likely to cause an accident? Everybody driving the same speed at 70 or the jerk doing 50.

I would like to tell the audience this is exposing a very big part of Dennis. He hates slow drivers. I do. I do. Whenever I've driven with you, you're so mad.

Well, if they're in the right lane, I forgive them. If you want to drive slowly, go in the right lane.

My dad hates them too, FYI. I take your point. I also—

wait, wait, wait, wait. Sean is confused. Yes. When— so he's asking, am I saying intention doesn't matter when it comes to a good deed, but it does matter when it comes to a bad deed?

Why did you hear that? Because of the involuntary or voluntary manslaughter.

Well, no, that's the— because that's a crime. Well, well, I mean, let's use common sense. What are we supposed to do? A man kills a pedestrian. We don't ask, did he deliberately kill the pedestrian, or was it a total accident? I mean, on earth, of course we ask that. But in general, the amount of bad done by people with good intentions is enormous. Oh, yes. Enormous.

Well, I said to that person, I said, the problem you have with my argument is someone like Jeffrey Epstein donating to a hospital, i.e., an evil person with bad intentions doing a good thing. That's your problem with my argument. And you know what? It's a legitimate challenge. My problem with your argument is the good or the well-intentioned communist who supports the people who are making the Gulag happen. In my scenario, even though my scenario is flawed, even though in a perfect world I would want a non-Jeffrey Epstein donating money to the children's hospital instead of a Jeffrey Epstein, good ends up being done at the end of the day in my scenario.

Well, in your scenario, ask the children whose cancer got cured. Right. Are you happy that, that a bad guy donated or not?

Right. Well, this is— this was a really, really good discussion because what he was saying again was, you know, should we or should God judge someone according to their reasons for behaving well? And he specifically talked about fear of punishment. My response to him was, I feel like the entirety of religion is fear of punishment. How can you, you know, how can you say that someone is impure for going below the speed limit because they fear of getting pulled over by a cop? Are you impure for living a good life because you fear you're going to go to hell?

That's what animates all of us. That's why I said that's the driver that I had sympathy for.

Right. That's, but that isn't that the whole basis of religion?

Well, that's what Alan Dershowitz and I, we have argued for the last 20 years, 25 years. All over the country on my radio show. So I'll never forget, very early on he said, look, Dennis, to be— he's secular, but he knows a religion because he went to yeshiva like I did. Anyway, he said, Dennis, let's be honest. I'm paraphrasing, of course. I'm on a higher moral plane than you are. And he wasn't insulting me, and I wasn't insulting that he— I understood it was an argument he was making. You think you'll be rewarded or punished by a god for doing the right or, or not doing the wrong thing. I don't think I'll be rewarded for doing the right thing or not doing the wrong thing, so I am on a higher plane. So you'll love this. So there is actually a a very well-known Hebrew dictum in Judaism that the, the one who does something because of a fear of God is on a higher plane than the one who does it because he thinks it's right. Why? That's it. That was the $64,000 question in one word. Why? Because you can much more rely on that guy, uh, for doing the right thing than you can the other guy. That in the final analysis, a consistently moral life is more likely to be led by the person who thinks he's answerable to a judging God than the guy who thinks he's only answerable to his own conscience. Alan Dershowitz is an exception. I think that to a large extent he has done a lot of courageous things. He's lost all his friends because he's defended Donald Trump, and he didn't even vote for Trump.

I know he doesn't even—

he voted for Biden, to his everlasting discredit. But the— but well said. I'll leave that. But, but, but, uh, most, most of us— and I, I, I gave this example 30 years ago when Joel Alperson first heard me. I said, so let's take a baseball game. Baseball batter is up. He gets the sign from the coach, from the manager through the coach on third base. Bunt. Does everybody know what a bunt is? Just touch the ball and hit it to the ground and try to move the runner another base without swinging, just touch the ball. Instead, he swings and hits a home run. So he has scored 2 runs. The guy on base who he just told to move up one base, what happens? Do they cheer the guy? Does, does the manager? The manager will probably fine the guy.

Fine.

Fine. Yes. Why? Because he didn't listen to what the manager instructed him to do. You can't have everybody choose what they do on a baseball team. That is the way it is. What— what— the manager— I don't know if you know this, but the manager tells the right fielder to move over a little to center field.

Well, you're dealing with someone who knows nothing.

Okay, so fine, but you don't— but the principle stands. Do hockey— it doesn't matter what sport. Your, your task sometimes is choose the best on your own, and sometimes it's, I'm telling you what to do. Don't swing on the next pitch. If you swing on the next pitch and hit a home run, the whole authority of the team collapses.

Well, back to what you were saying with, with Dershowitz's challenge, or I guess argument that he's on a higher moral plane. Apropos of the Pragerian argument, my response would be Who cares? Right. You know, if you're doing, if you're doing the right thing and I'm doing the right thing, I don't really care if you're on a higher moral plane or if I'm on a higher moral plane.

Well, ironically, he's judging, he's judging thought. Right. That's right.

But this, but this thought I had where I said, isn't this the basis? I, I, I think, and I don't mean this in a complimentary way, but I, I think it's really important, this revelation, because what revelation? That, that my dear, lovely Christian friend was saying that someone who acts well out of fear of punishment is sort of on a lesser moral plane than someone who acts well just because they think it's— Yeah, but he believes well.

But he believes well on the basis of punishment. That's, that's what I'm saying. That's the irony.

That's, that's my argument. That's, that's the entire basis of religion. You fear that you are going to go to hell, so you behave well.

That's why you believe well. No, no, you didn't follow my point. He— how could he make that argument about action when he has that argument about faith? If I don't believe in Jesus, I go to hell.

Right. That's the ultimate punishment. Yes. That's why God-fearing, as you pointed out to me, I learned it as many things from you. God-fearing is a moral term. It is. It is.

That's what it means. It's a moral.

It is a moral term to fear the wrath of God.

A generation before mine, it wasn't even— it already had started to decline. It was common to describe a good person as a God-fearing person.

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That I have no answer. Yeah, that's right. Well, okay, so now you know, and this is a, this is a big deal. I've said all of my life that I have two very heretical beliefs. This I've said really all of my life. One, God has common sense. That, that is, that is heresy to, to many religious people who ascribe to God beliefs, like those who say God views taking a stapler from work the same as raping a child because they're both sins. There are people who believe that, that in God's eyes they're equivalent. Okay, that deprives God of— comes— it makes me brighter than God and certainly more morally clear, right? The other one is, which is at least as dramatic, and believe it or not, uh, quote unquote— I don't mean it literally, but quote unquote— heretical, uh, is basically all you need to know is God wants you to be good. And that many religious people, uh, they, they don't disagree that God wants us to be good. Some will say, well, But, you know, there's no such thing as good because we're all sinners. It's a very common response. Or God wants us to be far more than good. But that is my belief. That's why I'm an ethical monotheist. Judaism is my religion of ethical monotheism. And my dream is that your Christianity— I don't mean yours, whoever it is— your Christianity is your vehicle to ethical monotheism, that God's primary concern is how we behave toward other people. And I even have a human proof, not a theological proof. I could give all the theology you want, but my human proof is: what matters more to you as a parent, how your children treat each other or how they treat you? It is a source of tremendous pain in parents if their children don't get along. If they don't get along that great with the parent but get along great with each other, uh, and presuming one at least relates to the parent well, you know, it's sad. I wish my child related more to me, but they love each other. We're God's children. How could his— how could it it not be his primary concern? How can you mistreat God anyway? You can mistreat people, right?

You know, when you alerted me to the idea that God-fearing is a moral term, I can't tell you how liberating that was for me, because I sort of, like my friend, had this idea that if I just was behaving well out of fear of punishment, then that made me sort of a lesser person. But that's the way God made us. You know, whenever I— forgive me as I'm sort of clumsily going through this and exploring this, but, you know, if one has lust or if one has bad thoughts about another person, it's not— obviously, in a perfect world, we would not want to have them, but that's the way God made us. God gave us the ingredient that allows us to have those bad thoughts. That's right. So it indicates that what he values more is whether or not, again, bringing it back to your grandfather, whether or not we act on those thoughts. Because just as you know, in the Garden of Eden, God implanted in human beings the proclivity to sin. People say, well, God gave human beings free will. Well, In the ingredient of free— or part of the recipe of free will involves proclivity to do wrong or to sin. And so, you know, sometimes when I would be explaining why I value religion to people or why I think a society should be religious, I would say, well, religion makes you a happier person, it makes you a better person, it makes your society better. And some of the arguments that I would get back is, well, isn't that sort of a utilitarian argument? Like, isn't that just saying, well, religion can serve the ends that I want. Shouldn't this person challenging me would say, shouldn't you just argue that religion, you should follow religion and follow God's moral code because it is good, because of its eternal goodness, as opposed to what it, how it benefits you?

What is the difference between it is good and it makes a better society? What is the difference?

Well, it's a, it's a good, I guess it's that it's about the purity of one's intentions again, or one's thought that.

Yeah. Well, it's a pure thought to want to make a good world with less cruelty in it. I think that's very pure. Right.

No, I take your point. But anyway, when you talked about how God-fearing is a moral term, it was liberating because I'm like, yes, that's how it works. That's even how religion works. You're going to fear punishment and that's why you do good. Am I making any sense?

I hope I'm not being very articulate. I don't understand. Well, I do understand, but it's mistaken. It's back to, well, your thoughts are what matter most. No, no, your deeds are what matters most. And it's on this planet, that's what matters most.

I'll give you an example again. I know I'm— my friend should just be having this conversation because I keep repeating him. But he was saying, he said, you know, I sin all the time. He's one of the things I said to him is I am not claiming to be perfect. Trust me, Dennis, you know, all I do is beat myself up. But I don't think I sin very often. And maybe this comes off as pompous, or I really don't mean it to be. I'm not perfect, but I follow the speed limit. You know, I treat my parents really well. I don't steal. I hope I treat everyone in the workplace well. I think I'm 9 times out of 10 a good person.

You monitor your speech and behavior constantly. Constantly. I know that because I do mine and I recognize it in others. And that's correct.

And I would say the same about you, Dennis.

You really— right. I, I— we're all sinners is as helpful as we're all breathers, right? So, so therefore what?

Well, look, I, I think it's a—

we're all sinners is true, but gradations are everything, right?

And so this person, you know, I was saying I think you're a good person, you know, 9 times out of 10. And he was saying, I sin all the time. And I said, can you give some examples? And he goes, sometimes I think I'm better than other people. And I said, well, are you? You know, of course. I mean, you're— he's— he plays an instrument. I bet he's a better pianist than some other pianist.

Ascribe the Five Books of Moses to Moses, and there is a line in the Five Books, the Torah, Moses was the humblest man on earth. Now, that's bizarre. Either he didn't write it, or— in which case, people have an issue. It's the Mosaic authorship of the Bible, of the Torah, the 5 books. They're no longer the 5 books of Moses, right? The 5 books of Jerry. Uh, and—

or you can say that just as God said, this is good.

I— oh, well, this, this subject, I love this subject because people, again, if people don't think things through, you really want somebody to deny how good they are at what they do. So let me ask you a question. I, I, as I have two pilots, you know my— you love my aura questions. Yeah, they're great. So you're going, uh, LA to Europe. It's, it's an 11-hour flight. It's a long flight, 12 hours. And you have choice of two pilots. One believes he is one of the best in the country and the other thinks he's mediocre. That's all you know about them. Which pilot would you choose?

You know my answer.

I know everybody's answer. Of course they wouldn't flip a coin.

Well, it's just, it's, why is it, to your point, why is it a bad thing? As long as you don't if you don't treat someone like they're inferior, or if you don't try to, you know, put an impediment up to their success. I think, you know, sometimes I think, oh, I'm a better public speaker than that person, or I happen to know more about Icelandic languages than that person. I don't, you know, that doesn't mean I think my whole being is superior. I think that we have, all human beings have an inherent equality as far as our worth as people and the dignity and respect with which we should be treated. But I'm sure a gymnast looks at me if I try to do a somersault and would think they're better.

Well, and they are. And even as a person, if you've worked your whole life on being a good human being and have generally met those criteria, I don't know why you're not allowed to think you're better than a lot of other people. It doesn't— that Christians will often say to me, because I I live with Christians so much and I adore them, including some of the people I most adore. Well, Dennis, you know, I have to watch out for the sin of pride. I don't think that being proud of yourself and pride as a sin are the same thing. I think the sin is arrogance, not pride.

Okay, so I have an interesting question for you that you just made me think of. I know some people who are very nice people. By the way, this is not— people are going to think I'm alluding to Dennis. I'm not alluding to you. But some people maybe who are in the public eye who are very nice and who do a lot of good and treat their family well, their friends well, whatever. But you can tell they have an ego. And sometimes, I'm sure you've encountered these people, you know, where it's a natural thing to encounter in the media world. And sometimes it's annoying, or you sort of notice that they have an ego, and maybe it's not that they're actively doing harm, but sometimes it's a little bit insufferable to be around them, or you think they kind of go overboard. What do you think about that? Arguably, that per— I mean, obviously there are gradations of sin, if we can even call that a sin, but that person isn't isn't doing harm, but I don't think that person is doing a great thing for society by having a big ego.

Well, it manifests itself. I mean, it— the only way you know that is by, by how it manifests itself. You didn't dig into their psyche, right, to figure that out. So clearly some aspect of their behavior betrays the fact that, that they have quote-unquote an ego. And, you know, uh, I, I will say it, it sounds like I'm bragging, and I might be, to be honest, but, but not for the sake of my ego, for the sake of making a point. The most common thing I have heard in my work life, usually from people who are— I've been in radio for 40 years, so that's my work life. And the sales staff, you know, there's always a large sales staff because no ads, no, no show. And so I value these people immensely. And it is after that, like, the 10th person in sales said to me in the course of my career, you know, you're not a prima donna. And it finally registered on me Yeah, I'm not— of course I'm not a prima donna.

You're an anti-prima donna.

Yeah, it's somewhat of a joke to me being a prima donna, but there are many who are.

Yes, there are, and they're not bad people, but they're kind of prima donnas.

That's right. Okay, but it's not a good trait. By the way, it's a stupid trait because you won't have any friends. I mean, it's, it's self-destructive, except fellow prima donnas. Yeah, but that's not friends, right? That's fellow prima donnas, right, who want to be with you because you're well-known or successful or rich or whatever the reason might be.

But with this person who was saying that he doesn't like how he thinks he's better than other people at things, that's the whole basis of capitalism. That's the whole basis of society, that there are some people who make more than others, who are better at certain jobs than others. I mean, In a— there needs to be an equality in the, in the sense of, again, the dignity and respect with which every human being deserves to be treated. But besides that, inequality should be allowed. That's right. Well, Nietzsche—

if you have freedom, you have inequality. Some people have more talent than others.

Nietzsche, who I know how to spell— on a, on a Dennis and Julie episode, Dennis asked me how do I spell Nietzsche. Nietzsche is— he's a fascinating character because he's so right on some things and so wrong on others. I think he was nuts. But he has this pretty scathing rebuke of Christianity. And I really— I wrote an essay trying to counter it, but— and not just sort of the Judeo-Christian religion, not just Christianity specifically. And one of the things he was saying is that this idea of God on the cross is a paradoxical symbol that is an affront to God. He said, how, you know, what kind of all-powerful God would display themselves that way, of being so helpless and decrepit on a cross? It celebrates weakness. It celebrates suffering. I disagree with him. I think that the symbol of Christ on the cross is a beautiful symbol. I think that it shows the love of God, that he would send his son to suffer alongside with us. In other words, he doesn't view himself as better. I think it shows that there's something There can be something ennobling or transformative about suffering. But there's another critique that Nietzsche gives of Christianity, which is sort of going into this realm of what we're talking about, where he says that sometimes followers of the Judeo-Christian religion can take equality to an extreme, in that they take the doctrine of equality of human beings and then sort of have these thoughts like, it's not right for me to think that I'm better than others. And Nietzsche says, well, that makes us into herd animals. It impedes our progress because we need to— he goes in the other direction where he says that basically there need to be these strong men in society who do think that they're better than others in all of their abilities. And that's what helps society progress. Ubermensch. Yes, those are the Ubermensch.

So the Nazis really misconstrued it. The Nazis—

I don't know Nietzsche well enough to say whether the Nazis misconstrued it or not.

Because they based it on race, not on merit. It sounds like Nietzsche based it on merit. Yes.

Yes. Again, I'm not— I'm no Nietzsche scholar, but from my understanding of him, he based it on merit, not on race. But look, his alternative is wrong. But I think his critique maybe has some good points, you know, that sometimes, again, equality of all people should be affirmed, but we can't take that to an extreme. Well, equity is the antithesis. That's what it is.

No, no, it's horrible. Yes. That's what we're living through.

And by the way, this is, 'cause we're talking about New Jersey.

People hate the people who have achieved more. It's not all people do. That is the root of antisemitism. Envy. That's why the 10th Commandment is so important. Don't covet what belongs to your neighbor. It has nothing to do with lust, as I write in my commentary. I know the Hebrew. You can't lust after a house or a donkey. You— the issue is coveting means I want to take away. That's the essence of socialism and communism. It's not just that I want to get higher. I want you to get lower. That's the abolition of valedictorians, is an example. I am not better. I just won't allow anybody to be better. Yep.

Well, look, in some ways it's good. It's good to lust. It's good to, to want. You shouldn't want to take away what your neighbor has, right? But it's good to want. That's what you write with the Cain and Abel story. Do you seek seek to— do you envy or seek to emulate the people who do better than you?

One of my 5 favorite stories in the Torah.

When I see someone who's doing what you said a few minutes ago, you go, I'm going to be delighted if you, Julie, don't know what I'm about to say. And my answer was, I will be delighted too, because I will learn something. I am truly delighted when I see other people doing something better, better than I, or who have a better point. I view it as a gift. That person is being put right in front of me so I can learn from them, and then I can do better.

Well, I was going to say one of my 5 favorite stories is in Genesis. I think it's with Isaac. Uh, well, it's either Abraham, Isaac, or Jacob. I think it's Isaac and, uh, with the Ishmaelites. And they see he has really gotten wealthy, and one of the reasons is because he knew how to dig wells really much better than the other guys did. So what did the Israelites do? They didn't say, gee, teach us how to dig wells. They filled up his wells. It's one of my 5 favorite stories in the Bible, or specifically the Torah, the first 5 books.

It's a handbook on human nature.

Oh, that's perfect. That's what the left does. It fills up the wells. Yep. It doesn't learn how to dig wells.

Well, that was the thing. So as you know, and as the viewers probably know by now, I went to a really competitive all-girls high school where everything was about getting into college. It was from 7th through 12th grade. And I remember in about 8th grade, it was really— because 9th grade is when your transcript starts, like you submit it to colleges. They don't look at 7th or 8th, they look 9th grade and on. And so the competitiveness was really starting to rev up. And I remember as I was going into 9th grade thinking, I better find a way to— and I was competitive. I wasn't ruthless, but I was competitive. But I thought, I better find a way to mitigate this because it's just going to be miserable for 4 years looking left, oh, that girl did better on this test, or that girl, you know, is a faster swimmer. You know, it's just going to make me miserable. I had 2 solutions. First was, and this was without even knowing the Bible, but this is just what I came up with. The first was, as long as I do well, why am I going to dislike someone else for doing well? If I get an A on a test, why am I going to hate Sally for getting an A too? I got the A. People spend so much time focusing on what others have. Just focus on if you are meeting your goals. That's number 1. And number 2, if Sally's a faster swimmer, Sally's giving me a, you know, in the races, the running races, they have the line for the record and like she's giving me a line to follow. I should feel lucky to have her because she's my personal coach.

Wants me to also get faster, right? Even pre-Bible, pre-Dennis, pre-PragerU, pre-Carver, pre-everything. If I would have said to you— this is, this is, this is a comment on Julie as Julie, not as influenced by anybody else— if somebody would have said to you, well, uh, Sally came in first place in swimming, but We could change the rules and have her start a second behind you. No, of course you, you would have been repulsed by me, and it's back to dignity, you know. Right, dignity.

It's dignity. Yes, right. Yeah, no, that— no, I wouldn't, uh, would you—

would you rather lose in a fair world or win by cheating? Lose in a fair world. Of course, that's the way the world is divided. The left rather cheat. Let's change the rules so that you can come in first. Look, in Massachusetts, they abolished scores in kids' soccer. They didn't want any team to lose.

Then it's not soccer. It's not a sport then.

Of course. Or, you know, there are laws. You, you're going to see Robert Florczak in Germany. Ask him about about the, the baseball game of his kid where they, where they stopped the score when it was too much, one team beating the other.

Oh, okay. So I played water polo in high school, as you know, and there was one team that we played that was so much better because my school team sucked. We were, we were awful. No one else besides me on the team played water polo.

Was it called the for mercy rule? The mercy rule, right? Mercy.

We played this other team. That was— everyone on the team was not only a water polo player, but like a state championship water polo player. We got killed. Absolutely. I think— I'm not kidding— I think the score was 42 to 1. I scored the one goal. And you know what? I remember in the game, I mean, it was relentless. They were pummeling every 2 seconds. We would get the ball, they would come steal it, score. I mean, it was just the same thing over and over. And of course, you're humiliated. Your parents are there, everyone's like laughing, you know, their kids from the school watching, making fun. And I just remember being in the pool thinking, this is really good for me. This is a really good life lesson. There are going to be times when you're going to feel humiliated. Yeah.

When you're going to lose 42 to 1.

This is really good. And now nothing humiliated— like, by the way, for the record, nothing really humiliates me.

Even in high school, you were in high school then? Yeah. Yeah. I really do believe if somebody had said to me, Dennis, you're going to be in a game game where the score will be 42 to 1. Do you want to be on the team that got 1 or 42? There's no question I would have said 1. Why? Just to have a funny tale.

Yes, that's what it is.

There's no joy in recounting, you know, we beat a team 42 to 1. No big deal. But I lost 42 to 1. It's fun.

That, you know, I love that you said that because whenever something bad happens and I get upset or I have the impulse to get upset, I think, will this be a funny story? And then it's over. I'll give you an example to close on. I'm supposing we have to close on my 21st birthday. So 2 years ago, it was COVID. I was living in Washington, D.C. My sister took the train from New York to visit me, and we decided to go have my first legal drink at a bar. Maybe I was overserved. I lost my ID on my birthday. So maybe we called the restaurant. Turns out it fell on the street as I was walking back to my apartment.

But how do you know that it fell on the street?

Because someone found it a few days later and messaged me on Facebook. God bless him. But on my 21st birthday, the day when I'm supposed to have my ID to go to all these bars, I lost it at— by 11 o'clock in the morning. And I felt the tears, like, of course COVID. And I'm, you know, and I thought, you know what, this is a hilarious story I will be able to tell people for the rest of my life. On my 21st birthday, I lost my ID. And then it was a fun day. Bye everyone. You are Healthy. Just, you know what, you can't change it. You lost your damn ID. Make it fun. Find a way to make it fun.

Tell them how to contact you.

Speaking of fun, I love reading emails from people. You can reach me at julie@julie-hartman.com. And thank you, thank you, thank you for writing into me. I love them. And what's the other thing we have to publicize? Oh, please subscribe to this channel so that you can get a notification whenever we have Dennis and Julie. And you can follow me at Julie R. Hartman. R does not stand for Republican, contrary to what some of you think. It stands for Ruth. Shalom!

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