Dennis & Julie: The Conservative Closet

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Well, hello there everybody. Dennis and Julie. Dennis Prager, Julie Hartman for this week's Dennis and Julie. I think I've asked this in the past, but it doesn't matter. I'll I don't remember the answer. That's why it doesn't matter. Everybody else will. Did we ever miss a week?

No.

I'm very happy about that.

Well, as I say, we—

lockdowns, travel, doesn't matter.

Well, lockdowns wasn't a thing when we started. We started about a year and 3 weeks ago.

When you were at school?

I was at school.

Oh, that was post-lockdown?

Yeah, that was 3 years ago.

Okay. All right. Anyway. Great. So folks, I have— most of Dennis and Julie is truly spontaneous, which is, I think, its strength because it's so real.

Yes.

Okay. It's like a stream of consciousness of two human beings. But I am just opening with a light moment of male-female difference. So I subscribe to a magazine that I'm going to pick up in a moment and show it to you. And for those just listening, I will describe. It's titled Absolute Sound, which already— if I know Julie very well, she's beginning to fall asleep. So I want you to see the COVID It just arrived, the, uh, the latest issue of The Absolute Sound. There.

I'm happy for you. I'm happy that you're so happy. I look at that and I am— I feel tears coming. A bored, bored.

Oh, it's exactly right. So on the COVID for those not watching, is the Rockport Technologies Orion loudspeaker. It is. It is. It is a picture of a speaker. That is it.

What? What is so great about that?

That's the point. There is nothing in you that relates to the excitement that a lot of guys would have looking at that. We, we, we look at these machines— what, for some guys it's cars, for some guys it's airplanes, for some guys it's boats, for some guys it's loudspeakers, for other guys it's amplifiers— and, and we get excited by the inanimate. You— the— what inanimate excites women?

I think clothes. Yeah, clothes and shoes and bags, which generally doesn't excite men, right? But you want your woman to look good.

Yes. And you want us to listen to Orion loudspeakers. Okay, there you go.

Well, here's the thing. I understand a bit the fascination with planes and boats and all of that. I mean, I don't get the, like, nitty-gritty wanting to get the understand the propeller. I find that to be really boring, but I get, you know, it's a machine that moves and transports people, and it's sort of an amazing technology. I understand the fascination with that. No offense, my dear, dear Dennis, I don't really get your fascination.

Hello, excuse me, who had tears in her eyes listening to my audio system?

I did have— I did well up a little bit. Okay, fine.

So that— no, I'm not expecting you to get excited about it.

No, I like the sound of producing—

you can understand boats and yachts and airplanes because they do X, Y, or Z for people. This does X, Y, or Z. It did it for you.

You know, I'm— I think this is a greater point about male-female difference. I'm happy that you're different from me in this way. I think it adds to life.

So why is that? Why is that another point? I'm happy too.

No, I know you are.

I'm saying that's not a difference.

No, no. I'm just saying a sort of more more macro point than talking about speakers or planes. I think it's— I think we live in this time where people are trying to unravel distinctions. That's what's so sad about the whole transgender movement. I think one of the greatest parts about life is that men and women are different. What do they say? Variety is the spice of life. There are different foods, there are different places you can go, and there are different natures and creatures. And why, why is that such a bad thing?

I feel so bad for kids. Who don't have the excitement of discovering the other sex.

It's a good point.

Oh, it was such a feature in my young life, even in elementary school. Girls, they— it was such a fascinating subject. I'm not kidding.

I know you're not. Yeah, like, funny.

Wow, what, what are they? I, I, I was so You know, I had no sister, so I had no girlfriend and no daughter, right? Although, yeah, well, that's much later, but it's learning the opposite sex is even being scared of the opposite sex a little bit, intimidated by, whatever the term. And you know, you're a little shy in the— in— I, I was a little shy, believe it or not, in the presence of girls. You know, will she like me? I mean, you know, it was— it's so wonderful in growing up. And to deprive kids of this— there's really no difference between you. We're not going to say boys and girls in the classroom. And they don't— teachers don't now.

I know. Well, it's interesting because your life, you sort of lived it, at least in your own family. You had boys, as you said. You had a brother and then you have two sons. I'm actually the opposite. I have 3 sisters. Now, I'm— I don't have any kids, but we will, we will see. I hope I have boys, by the way.

I have 2 sisters.

Did I say 3? Yeah, clearly I'm exhausted. I'm one of 3.

We are 3 sisters.

We are 3 sisters, yes. I also went to an all-girls high school, actually middle school/high school, from 7th grade through 12th grade. It was all girls.

Oh, that's right.

And, um, you know, I had, I had next to no social life because all I did was study and swim and work hard. And, you know, I look back and, you know, I've talked on the show about how much I love my high school. It's really sad to see what's happened to it in just the 5 short years that I've been out. It's turned into a woke cesspool. It was not the case when I was there. I really appreciated it when I was there. But the one downside of going to an all-girls school, which I think was so beneficial in so many ways, but the one very significant downside is that I didn't feel like I understood men. It was only when I got to college and I was around guys that I felt like I sort of came to understand the other sex. Because when you're in elementary school, there's a fascination, but you don't understand them really. And so I think that sort of impeded, and, and I've talked to my girlfriends who went to my, my high school with me about this. All of us are sort of, um, I guess you could call us late bloomers or like I don't even just mean romantically. Yes, with men, because we just weren't used to having a guy in the classroom being a class clown, or we just didn't see that. So it took some adjusting. I still don't get them. I don't get you.

So here's an interesting observation for you. So I went to a religious Jewish school, but it was coed. My high school was boys and girls, but it was a religious Jewish school called a yeshiva. And there were other yeshivas, religious Jewish schools in New York City. There were a lot of them. And in fact, we even had a basketball league, MJHSL, Metropolitan Jewish High School League of New York. So when my team— and this is unbelievable to anybody who knows my school today, that we had cheerleaders. I mean, it's, it's, it's in short skirts, I might add. Wow.

At yeshiva?

Yes. It's— Orthodoxy has moved right just as society has moved left. This is, this is part of life. Anyway, we had cheerleaders. And I remember at the games because I was on the team, on the bench the whole time, but I was on the team and, and I was on the team because of my height, not ability. And I remember this vividly. The girls would go out and do their cheer, and the guys of my school would just basically talk to each other when the girls were doing their cheerleading. But the guys from the yeshivas that were all male went nuts. And it was such a fascinating thing for me to observe because they— first of all, we knew all the girls. They, they, they had names. They, they weren't just pretty girls in short skirts. They were Sheila or, you know, Barbara or whatever. And, and I realized there was an advantage of having girls in the class. They were more real to us than to the guys who, who had no interchange I was going to say intercourse, but in this context, it was not a good idea. So the, the truth is there are advantages and disadvantages to all one-sex schools, and I'm not against it. I think there are a lot of advantages, but there are advantages to co-ed too.

Oh, definitely. I think one of the advantages of the school that I went to is that you didn't— because boys were taken out of the equation, you didn't have the cattiness or the jealousy or the sort of, um, typical high school dating.

That's interesting stuff. You think the girls were nicer to each other?

Well, it's very interesting. I actually— yes, I do. But it's because my school— and again, I get a pang in my heart when I say it because my school's so different now— but when I was there, they really did inculcate great values into us that I think made us be nice to each other and not succumb to the cattiness that usually characterizes female relationships. Again, you wouldn't even believe how different my high school is now. And it's a real loss. You know, I got— this is something that I'm sure that you and others who are listening can relate to. When I graduated from my high school, I felt such a sense of gratitude and such a warmth in my heart for all of the friendships I had made, which I, as you know, you've met many of them, I still have to this day, all of the fabulous relationships I had with my teachers, and just for the institution, the school itself. And I thought, I'm going I'm going to be the most involved alumna, going to, you know, try to give monetarily. I'm trying to give my time, mentor students, you know, felt this real sense of wanting to give back. I felt a similar, well, a little bit of a different, but a sort of similar thing when I graduated from college. But now I look at these institutions and especially my high school and I feel a loss. It's almost like a loss of a person. My high school is not recognizable from the school that I went to. And I know that people feel this about, I'm sure, a lot of schools they went to, perhaps their workplace. Certainly we feel it about our country, but I don't think that we talk about the sense of loss that comes with this wokeism.

I actually said on my show just today, if you are— if you graduated Yale, and you donate money to Yale, you're a fool.

Yale is particularly bad. And I'm not just saying this.

They just invited Yale invited.

Oh, I saw this. The anti-Semite, really bad anti-Semite.

No, she blames the Jews for the Holocaust.

Yeah.

It's not Hitler's fault. It's the Jews' fault.

Yeah.

She wants Israel exterminated. I know when a rabbi and his and 3 children were murdered by a Muslim terrorist in Toulouse, France. Not even Israel. She said, "I am him," the terrorist, Mohammed Merah. "I am Mohammed Merah." And she was invited, second day of Passover, to come to Yale by Yale. Not by some Jew-hating Muslim group or Jew-hating group, period. Just by Yale. Anyway, that's just the latest. I mean, there are so many stories about Yale that have nothing to do with Jews. Are just reason not to give. So you had— I want to say this because I actually— because I'm open with my listeners, I actually had an inner debate. We talk about this because we're, we're both a little— you're more concerned than I am because I have so many years and people are used to me. Uh, you know, you don't want to make this about you, so to speak, and I know that But I want to make this about you, or at least your experience, because something very moving took place in Julie's life this, uh, this weekend. She— it was her first time she was flown to a city to give a lecture. And I remember this like yesterday when that happened to me at your age. The— I pinched myself and I thought, and I even told you on the phone, I said, I remember the city because I was living in New York then in my— until I was 26. And I was flown to Nashville, Tennessee, which until then was a name. Nashville, Tennessee. It was so exotic to me. Now they're bringing me, Dennis Prager, this kid, to Nashville, Tennessee. And I don't think I got— I got anything for— they paid my airfare and hotel, and, and that was incredible to me. People are bringing me— did you have that?

Of course. Oh my gosh, I couldn't— I mean, I was the whole time I was so honored and feeling so excited. And dare I say, actually a little proud of myself.

Yes, of course.

Which is rare for me.

This was in the Seattle area.

So yes. Well, it was actually, it actually wasn't, it was sort of, but I said area.

Yeah, right.

So area generously was actually up north.

I would say, you know, now that I think of it, I'll, I wonder if the distance between New York and Nashville and LA and Seattle are very similar.

Yeah, probably. So I'd never been to the state of Washington.

Oh, that's another thing. It's so exciting.

So I have to tell— I want to tell a few stories, but, um, again, I don't want to make this about me. I want to make it about the experience and how much I took away from it and how much it touched me. So I land in Seattle, I get in the car, and the, the lovely man who's driving me to my hotel, we started chatting, and he said to me, "Uh, why are you here?" And I said, "I'm giving a speech." She said, "What about?" And I said, you know what's so interesting? I sometimes I don't know how to answer. I know, isn't that weird?

Oh, I'll talk to you about— I could do an hour with you on that question.

I don't know how to answer because, right, and, and clearly I am not ashamed of what I believe.

I know, I know, right? I do, right? Hello, you don't want to have a tense 2 hours.

A tense 2 hours. And sometimes you just don't want to get it. Sometimes it's just you're exhausted, you don't want to get into it.

And you don't know what did you say? Because I have a suggestion. What did you say?

Well, I said I'm talking about the greatness of our country.

Oh, okay. That's a good one.

Which, which actually would seem like a benign answer, right? But today it tips off conservatism.

Okay. How did he react?

Oh, he— it was, it was incredible. He said to me, he goes— and I said, because, you know, we live in a great country and I want to defend it. And he goes, well, I love this country, too. And that's like our little exchange of going, you're a conservative, I'm conservative.

That's right.

We're going to have a great car ride. And we did. And so then we start chatting and you're gonna be very touched by this, Dennis. So we're just pulling out of the airport and, you know, I'm telling him about the show I do. And I said, I do a show actually with a man named Dennis Prager. And he goes, he goes, are you kidding? He goes, I was just listening to Dennis as I was driving in to pick you up. And he was listening to your Exodus series with Jordan Peterson. He was really like just startled. And I said, well, let's listen to it. I want, you know, I haven't heard much of it. So we listened and we were chatting and he said that he thought that you, you were such a great listener. That's one of the things he said about you in addition to being a great contributor to the conversation. You were an excellent listener. And he just couldn't believe that I know you and that I had the show with you. And then we listened to Dennis and Julie because I said I want to, you know, play it for you. And it was so fascinating.

Must have blown this man's mind.

Yes, totally. So, so that's not even the best part of the story. So, you know, we're listening talking to Dennis and Julie. And by the way, it was so interesting for me to listen to us being me but not in it, you know? Like, sometimes I think something we have to work on is we say things like we know what the other person is thinking, and sometimes we'll have this exchange, but we don't always make it clear to the audience. Like, if I remember something that you said—

shorthand.

Yes, because we know each other so well.

Oh yeah, no, that we have to go out again.

So, okay, I recognize that, Dennis and Julie listener. So anyway, to make a long story short, I get to the hotel. It's a casino hotel, which is a whole other conversation unto its own. My impression, I'd never been inside a casino, blew me away. I go to the front desk. It's about, I'm super, I'm paranoid. I always have to be like extremely early to places. I got there so, so early. My speech was at night. I got there at 10:30 in the morning just in case my flight gets delayed and something happens. I go to the front desk. And they go, "Oh, you can't check in till 3." And I'm thinking, "Oh my gosh, I'm just gonna sit here and watch TV." Right, I don't know if people know this.

You check out at noon, but you check in at 3. That's the hotel policy all over the country.

I didn't know that. And I'm like, "Are you kidding? I'm just gonna sit here in this lobby?" I know, exactly. So I called the guy back, the driver, because we'd gotten so close in the 2-hour call. And I said, "I don't know if this is too much, but you mentioned that there was this beautiful body of water near this hotel. Would you mind taking me there?" And he says, "Of course." So we, oh, huh.

Oh, that's fascinating. LA Seattle is 300 miles longer than New York Nashville. So it isn't that different. That's adorable.

So he comes back, he picks me up, we go to this, it's called Bellingham Bay. We go to this beautiful bay. We stop by this rest stop. He knows people inside the rest stop. You have to understand, this is so different for me. I'm from Los Angeles. Big city, impersonal, you know, he knows, and he's a Native American. And I was in a part of Washington where there are a lot of Native American reservations and I met some fellow individuals who were from a neighboring reservation and we just sat there and ate candy in this rest stop and talked for like 30 minutes about, they were educating me about the different tribes and about the different state law. And I just thought the whole time, this is my life. Like, this is so cool. Instability, vulnerability, uncertainty, volatility. Unstable, precarious, unpredictable. All of these words describe our banking system, as evidenced by the recent collapse of two banks. Julie Hartman here for AmFedCoin and Bullion. This was the second largest bank failure in history, and the Federal Reserve has been scrambling to keep this bank run from spreading. If you feel uneasy about having too much money sitting in the bank, you're not alone. Gold, silver, and platinum have had recent gains as investors look for safe places to park their money. Now more than ever, you need to call Nick Grovich, owner of AmFed Coin and Bullion. Dennis has been doing business with them for many years and he doesn't go anywhere else. Nick and his very experienced team of specialists will provide you with personalized attention, honest information, and sound advice. Be smart and be prepared. If you're interested in buying or selling, call AmFed Coin and Bullion, 1-800-221-7677. 94, or go to americanfederal.com. That's americanfederal.com. And this was even before the speech. It was just going to a new place, seeing a different part of the country, seeing a different way that people live, meeting someone, making a friend. Like, the whole experience was sort of out of body, and I had never learned about reservations or any of that. So it was just— that's one of the benefits of, of travel. It really— if you allow yourself, you can learn An immense amount.

Look, you know, I— the only thing I, I totally acknowledge I brag about— I've been to 130 countries.

You should brag about it. It's amazing.

And 9 of Canada's 10 provinces. That counts too. But I know what you're saying. You travel, especially if you travel alone, which you did— there is no education like it in the world. And you realize you're, you're lucky to do it. And ironically, you realize you're not that special. Does that make sense to you?

Of course, I know exactly what you're saying. You feel sort of, um, I know it sounds corny to say, but you feel sort of small, or you feel like there's—

the world is really big.

It's so big, and there are so many different, like, people just live so differently, you know. And by the way, this wasn't even a foreign country that I was going to. This was just Northern Washington. But for me, it might as well have been because I'm from liberal, you know, again, fake. And I, by the way, I actually love LA, you know. I feel a sense of, um, uh, respect for my home city, though I'm disappointed with how— another, another loss— I'm disappointed with how it's turned out. But You know what I got a sense of? This was a, this was a conservative town. It was a rural town and everyone was just so nice. I mean, to go to this rest stop and have people just talk to me and buy me candy of my choice and welcome me. And then when I went to the event, so many of the attendees, there's 350 people, they all, they knew each other and they live in this just gorgeous part of Washington near the Canadian border. And they all like, are, you know, are members of a the same church. And it was just— I stepped into another stratosphere of realness and authenticity and good American values that I really don't see a lot in Los Angeles. It was so— they, as much as they think I may have done something for them by giving a speech, they did even more for me by showing me a different part of the country. And I felt that I gained so many friends.

Well, tell about the friend you did gain.

Oh my goodness. Well, there— I invited a listener of Dennis and Julie. Shout out to Bae. She is a 23-year-old young artist living near Seattle. She and I have been exchanging emails. And she—

if you write Julie, you never know what will happen. The one thing you know is she'll respond.

Well, I actually— I don't know about that because I'm being inundated, but I will totally read it. I will totally read it. She'll read it and forward it to me. So it's at the top of my inbox. So I will respond. Because I just want to respond.

How did they write to you?

Julie at julie-hartman.com. So she wrote to me and she said that she lived in Washington and she said, you mentioned that you, you know, were speaking in the state. And I wrote back and I said, oh my gosh, yes, you should come. And I invited her as my guest. She tried. She took a ferry and drove because she lives sort of— I didn't realize Washington.

Oh, she did drive. She didn't have to take an Uber.

Or maybe she did take an Uber, but she— and it was a ferry and a car. Took her 3 hours to get there from where she lives. And she came and she is magnificent. She is just smart. And I mean, I knew this from emailing with her, but she's a very special person.

This is another blessing of our lives. This is the greatest blessing, the people we meet.

And Dennis spoke with her because she was telling me how much Dennis has influenced her. And I, I know this sounds self-aggrandizing, and forgive me, I love making people's day if I can make their day. I love doing something for them that they may not otherwise, you know, be able to get. And I always thought if I'm in a position, like in a public position, to do that, I will. So when she said how much she loved you, I said, let's call him. And Dennis spoke with her on the phone for a few minutes. That was very kind of you to do. Anyway, she's now my friend. We text, we call. She's She's just wonderful. And it's a test. It shows how good this show is. And this is not said as a compliment to us. It makes me feel so good about the show for attracting people like that.

Oh, totally.

The—

you've heard it, but not everybody listening or watching has. So in a nutshell, I have my mirror theory of life. The mirror of your body is the physical mirror. The mirror of your mind is your writing. You want to know what's in your mind, right? And if it doesn't come out clearly, it means you're not thinking clearly. And the mirror of your character is the people you attract into your life.

Well, one of the things that you said to me just before this broadcast is you said, you know, I love doing Dennis and Julie. We always say that we just have so much fun. And you said, I feel so comfortable around you. Do you remember saying this just a few moments ago? And you said The reason is because I feel that I can be myself around you. And I, and I actually said we should talk about that on the show today. That is so true. And even with Bae, this, this girl that came, I didn't— I don't know her, but I felt, I felt like I could be myself around her.

Yes.

With all the people at the event, I felt that they could see the, the real Julie. And that is such a blessing.

Americans who hide who they are I recently had— Sue and I, my wife and I, had a meal with a wonderful couple. I will only say that he is an actor in Hollywood, and I actually saw him in a movie. He's terrific, and he's a big fan of my work, and he gives copies of my Deuteronomy commentary to friends. Well, I don't know about friends. He gives them out to some people. This is my point about the friends. So I asked them— I first, I asked him, does anyone in Hollywood know you're conservative? No. All the people he works with, not one knows this. What about your friends? I asked his wife. They're, they're a young couple. And relatively young. Is he— she's her mid-30s, he's early 40s. And do, uh, do you have any conservative friends? Do you have any friends you could say what you think? And said no.

Oh God, I can't imagine.

I know, I can't either. My heart broke for them. The thought that I had to hide my deepest values from my friends, they said, and they acknowledged, they said if they knew what we thought, we wouldn't have them as friends. They would leave us. And I'm sure they would leave them. I think that's, I don't think that's paranoid.

Yeah, you know, this reminds me of something when I was young. And you were talking about boys and girls in, in, in elementary school, kind of discovering each other. I remember when I was young, there was a boy in my class who was very cute by fifth grade standards. And one of my friends asked me why I didn't like him. And my answer was, I don't think he's a good person.

That's amazing.

It is amazing. But it showed, it showed from a really young age that was so important to me, right, that whoever I'm with is a good person. And I don't know what, what about what you just said made me think of it, but I think it's that you have to know, you have to know and be known, especially when it comes to friends or romantic partners or people in your life. I, and, and I have been friends with people who don't share my political views or who, and it doesn't work out. And now that I'm on the other side of it, it's such a happier, liberating life when you are with people who you know and, and who whose values you share?

See, I'll bet that there is— I'll bet 25% of Hollywood is conservative.

Oh, really? Oh, I don't think so at all. I think that's generous.

You think that's generous?

Okay.

I don't, because I know— I know so many, but they don't— they don't let people in Hollywood know. Let's— okay, so let's say it's 15%. Okay, 10%, 1 out of 10. I think it's more than 1 of 10, but it doesn't matter. They, they can't meet the others in the 10%. That's the problem. That's, that's the closet issue. If you're in the closet, the enemy doesn't know you, but your friends don't know you either.

So can I ask a question that may seem to be impertinent? And I sincerely don't mean it to be. I recognize, to use the left's favorite word, my privilege. I recognize that I get paid to talk about my values.

100%.

And that is a privilege. I wouldn't—

Yes.

Now, now I want to give credit to myself because when I first came to your radio show 2 years ago, I didn't have a contract with Salem. I didn't have nothing. I was, I was a, I was in college. I had no idea this was going to turn out to be my career. I, I felt strongly and I wanted to do it anyway because that's just who I am.

Right.

And I just, I just have to be out with what I think. I can't hide it.

Right.

But now that it is my profession, I recognize my privilege. I want to say that. But I get that a lot of people might be fired or might be punished for espousing their views. But forgive me if this is impertinent. If this individual is in Hollywood, I'm assuming that they have some clout and some money. And is it a bit cowardly that this person is not talking?

Okay. So I don't know how much clout or how much money he has. I suspect Not much of either.

Well, he's in movies.

Yes, he is. So what? Unless you're a star, how much do you get? But so I can't answer that question on the money. I certainly am sure that he doesn't have much clout. Your first question, though, I want to revert to. I— when, when people ask me, should Dennis, which I get all the time, Should I come out of the closet? I never say yes. I only tell them that they're— that in the closet they can't meet kindred spirits. You're hidden both from your enemies and your potential friends. I just want them to understand the price they pay other than the psychic or happiness price of being in the closet. But I don't have the chutzpah because exactly of what you said, I don't risk anything. I mean, I'm hated on the internet a lot, but my job isn't it. In fact, the more I'm hated, the more my job future is guaranteed.

Right. That's true.

So I know that we're in a rare privileged position to say what we think for a living, not for a firing. So I just want everybody to know, I don't have the right to tell you. Listen, kids ask me all the time, do I write what I think on my papers in high school? What college am I gonna get into? Because the teacher is gonna just, you know, either give me a lower grade, which is probable, or maybe even a bad recommendation or whatever that constitutes. Is it— it's my general answer is that if you, if you compromise for a grade in 11th grade, when will you stop compromising in later in life? And that's legit. By the way, do you know that it's the only time Ben Shapiro and I publicly differed? We were both speakers at a Passover retreat a number of years ago, and that issue arose and he said, don't come out with what you say. We need conservatives to get into prestigious colleges, get the damn degree, and then go and tell the world what they think afterwards.

Wow.

Right. Yes. And I said, and I gave my— I don't know either. I stand by what I say, but his attitude is not foolish. So, but anyway, Uh, I feel, I feel for people who have to hide. What, what makes my— what makes me go crazy is more than the closet at work, is that the— this couple doesn't have one conservative couple friend.

It's lonely.

But when I think of it, how are they going to meet them? Yeah, because if they put out a Facebook page and they say Oh, look here, here, just read this thing by Dennis Prager or Ben Shapiro or Jordan Peterson or Charlie Kirk or, or whomever. They're, they, they, they're afraid they'll lose their friends, right? But I would say losing your job is worse than losing your friends. Of course, because they're not your friends. A friend is whom you can talk and open up to.

I feel grateful for the friends that I lost, or I feel maybe grateful is the wrong word.

No, no, no, yes, yes, save you future. It's like breaking up before you get married.

Yes, it's like even though at 20, it was hard to go through, you know, kind of having my world be shaken up, I thought, you know what, this is a gift. I'd rather this happen at 20 than at 50. At least now I know.

That's right.

And then I can attract new people. What I will say, and I totally agree with you and recognize that it's very difficult for some to speak, to speak out and speak up, but I have been contemplating and thinking about Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn's essay, Live Not by Lies, now more than ever, because I, like you, am stumped when people ask me, what do I do? And I say, If you can't, if you are in the position where it's going to harm your livelihood, or, you know, if you're speaking up, I totally understand not doing that. But don't live by lies. Don't endorse or repeat what the other side is saying. At the very least, just remain silent or remain neutral. And that's a power that people don't realize that they have. They don't have to go and echo everything that the other side is saying. I played a clip on my show of the universe. I know, I'm sure that you've seen it. It was back from September. The University of Minnesota Medical School, their inaugural ceremony.

I played it twice.

Yes. And the guy is reading, you know, we're on tribal land and we recognize our white privilege and all this crap. And these students are reciting it alongside him in this resigned zombie-like form, which weirdly is encouraging. I mean, it's devastating, but it's also encouraging because they're not saying it with vigor. They're dead in tone to indicate that they they don't think it's great, or they don't endorse it. I hope I'm right too. But I play that on my show, and one of the things I say is, imagine the power if all of those students had just remained silent.

That's it.

They didn't recite it alongside. That is a huge power. We live in this culture now where people think that you have to be loud, or you have to have a podcast, or you have to do— in order to speak. No, sometimes the greatest power is if you shut up And you don't repeat the other side. And that clip is the most apt example.

That's why Julie is Julie. You don't have to react. I'm so happy you said this. All the University of Pennsylvania women's swim team needed to do was not show up.

Yep. Totally.

They are as complicit in having Lia Thomas, a male, win all these medals taken away from women because he said all of a sudden in the middle of the University of Pennsylvania career, as it were, that he's a male, that he's a female, and they lost all these medals to him. All they had to do was not show. They didn't have to go to the press. They didn't have to say a word. Yeah, just that's— that answers all of this. Don't go to Disneyland. It ends Disney and its woke, woke features. Don't buy Bud Light or any Anheuser-Busch product. It's— that isn't speaking out. That's just standing up. My biblical thing on Moses. His 3 acts that impressed God for why he picked Moses to take the—

Are you about to quiz me to see how well I know?

Oh, I wasn't.

No, please don't.

Okay. No, no, I wasn't.

As well as Genesis, you will— like a delinquent. I know. I will.

You still love Deuteronomy.

I— oh, trust me, don't even— don't even remind me.

I don't want to place guilt on you. Uh, He did 3 things before meeting God at the burning bush. 1, he saw an Egyptian slave master beating a Hebrew slave, and he killed the slave master. 2, he saw 2 Jews fighting, and then he yelled at them about the fight. And then, uh, and, and that. And the third, he saw, uh, non-Hebrew males bully non-Hebrew females at a well after he fled Egypt because of the taskmaster that he killed. So I point out Moses knew when, when to kill, when to speak, and went to just stand up. All he did was stand up. He didn't say a word to the bullies. He just stood up. And we have to know how to resist evil. And you're pointing out you don't have to even speak up. Just don't show up. If, if one quarter of America's parents took their kids out of the schools that are ruining their children, truly ruining them, teaching them to hate this country, to hate goodness, basically to hate them, because parental authority is sneered at at school. And that would end it. You don't have to say a word. Your point is so terrific, I'm just expounding on it. Had they just said nothing at the university— if people, by the way, people watching this or listening to this You could easily find it on the internet.

Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

Just Google University of Minnesota Medical School. What would it be?

Woke Pledge of Allegiance.

I think that's what it's called on the internet. It was cult-like.

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But that anyway, your bigger point is, is fantastic. I may write a column on it.

Well, I may beat you to it, actually. Okay, do it.

All right, fine.

Call them on it.

Yes.

But I, I'll give you one other example. I know that you know this, and I believe I've said it on this program. At my graduation, Jacinda Ardern, who was the, the Prime Minister of New Zealand, who said, if you don't hear it from the government, it's not true. She was one of those woke people. She was my commencement speaker. And during the program, she was talking about basically a lot of her speech was New Zealand's doing all this stuff right, and you, the United States, you know, are doing all this stuff wrong. And she talked about the gun buyback program that she had initiated in COVID and all this stuff. First of all, it's such a bizarre comparison because New Zealand is a country of 5 million people and an island and an island.

I mean, 5 hours from the next country.

Exactly. I mean, don't even, don't even get me started on that. It's just like, it's like comparing a small, you know, like mom and pop preschool to a huge university.

5 hours. I'm thinking it's not 5 hours by flight. Why did I say 5 hours? Anyway, it's not right off Australia's coast. I mean, they're isolated.

No, I know, I know. It's like, I was gonna say, it's like comparing a really small preschool to a big university. I'm not talking about it in terms of worth, just in size and scale and different organization, et cetera. But at one point in the speech, she talked about abortion. She talked about, maybe she, I can't remember, forgive me, maybe she passed something or her legislature passed something that secured a woman's right to have an abortion. And people in Harvard Yard were cheering and clapping and smiling like they had just been told that they were all going to get, you know, Oprah Winfrey, like, go home with a car, you know, that famous clip. And people stood up and I just remember I was so, and by the way, I said his recently as last week on this program, I get very conflicted about the issue of abortion. I am not a pro-life absolutist. I'm not a pro-choice absolutist. I'm very morally conflicted about it. But I couldn't believe that people were smiling and they were treating this awful, awful thing like it was something to be celebrated. And I just sat there as people stood up and I just sat there and I had hoped that someone in that yard would see me. Maybe the people behind me, or, you know, would see me sitting there and remember that.

Well done. By the way, I want to make a point about your being conflicted on abortion. You work for Salem Radio, which is Evangelical Christian, as I do, and it wouldn't even occur to you, well, will they fire me for being conflicted on abortion and saying it? On a Salem network.

It is a great credit to Salem.

Well, it is, but it is also a great credit to the right.

Yes, yes, that's very true.

That's the bigger point. You can't be conflicted on anything on the left. What if you say you're conflicted on trans? Hey, maybe we really shouldn't put 6-year-olds on hormone blockers, uh, or whatever they're doing. I don't I mentioned 6 because I heard a doctor talk about her 6-year-old transgender patient.

Oh my God.

She was proud to say she's treating a 6-year-old transgender.

But anyway, people need to go to prison.

No, that's correct. You can't be conflicted on the left.

No, you can't. You're absolutely right about this.

By the way, Larry Elder is pro-gay marriage. And he was syndicated for years by Salem.

The first time I ever went on your show, I didn't even know you. I mean, I felt as though I knew you because I listened to you so much. But I said that very first time that I was pro-choice and pro-gay marriage. I've evolved a little bit on the first, not really on the second, but I— it didn't even occur to me not to say that in front of you. And I didn't even know you very well at the time, but I just— it was— I felt so comfortable, to your point, on the right, expressing some ambiguity, because I think what conservatives are, real people, they understand that life is complicated. They're, as Tom Sowell says, there are no solutions, there are just trade-offs. It's a human, you know, actually, so someone brought up to me recently, because I did say on the last show, and I spoke very openly about what I may do if I were in that position. I mean, it was a very raw episode. Someone said to me, you know, I can't believe that 'You feel so open, you know, expressing how conflicted you are.' And I just thought, it's not even an option for me to not express it. It's a human thing. I feel like that was me being human. I feel like there's something maybe a little bit wrong with you if you're not conflicted about something. What do you mean you can't be human on the right? Exactly. You can't. It's a very, very important point.

That's correct.

I don't know if—

Sydney to Auckland is 3 hours. So it's a 3— okay, so that's a lot. That's long, 3 hours by jet. Give you an idea how far New Zealand is from Australia. I knew it was something I didn't— as I said, I, you know, I had— you have this voice in you which cracks me up of, what did I do wrong? Basically, you live your life with, what did I do wrong? I have a different voice in me, and that is, did I tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? I'm truth-obsessed because I know that all evil comes from lies. I know in the New Testament, what is it, love of money is the root of evil or something What is the exact verse? Look it up, Sean. It's very— I'm very close. And the love of money does cause a lot of evil. It's— that's it. Loving money is not the same as liking money. And, you know, love and like are very important distinction. But the real mother of evil is lies. And I Okay, the love of money. I was right. The root— the love of money is the root of evil. Okay, any— anyway, uh, this, this experience that you had, I told you privately and I'll say it publicly, I have very few regrets in my life, including things that have been very painful, but I don't regret them. I, I learned from them I, I, I don't know what I could have done to prevent what happened, but there is what I have, and that is not keeping a diary. That is purely a function of being lazy.

You know, you motivated me so much when you said that to me on the phone yesterday that I actually— I didn't even tell you this— I wrote about 6 pages in a notebook about just some impressions.

Well, by the way, you might want to adopt the Alan Estrin a policy. Oh yes, a page a day, no matter what. If you have 10 pages in, you keep it a page. If you have no pages in, you make it a page.

Wow. Well, I— it's laziness too. I'm just so tired at the end of the day, I just don't want to.

I know, nobody does. That's why most people don't.

Also, it's emotionally— I just don't— sometimes I'm just— I want to watch Real Housewives.

Correct. I know. Okay. And, and I would want to do my thing. I understand. You want to listen to whatever that is. Yeah, read the absolute supersonic Exactly.

Spaceship.

By the way, I had, I had, Sue and I had lunch yesterday with a couple and it was wonderful. There was a wonderful lunch and we had never met before and he brought me a gift, which is uncalled for completely. I just want to make that clear. When people give me gifts, 95% of the time it's cigars, which I deeply appreciate because it's such a beautiful gesture. But you know what he gave me? A gorgeous fountain pen.

Oh wow. I'm afraid to give one to you because I'm so afraid I'm not going to pick the right thing. You know, not know what constitutes a gorgeous fountain pen for you.

It would be very— you know me, I can't imagine you would pick a loser. But there's no reason for you. I'm still dying to get you one.

I know. Dennis is so sweet. A few months ago he said, I want to buy you one as a gift, and I still haven't picked one out. Honestly, it's because I don't— I feel so— I don't want you to have to give me a gift. I feel so bad.

Oh, then I'll just buy it on my own. Okay, fine. You've just— you've just settled the matter if that's the reason. Oh, so I'll tell you something you'll find fascinating. Okay, so you don't want me to spend the money to get you a fountain pen, so you've been hesitating?

Yes.

Okay, so you will appreciate this. So another recent lunch with, with a couple, and I, I, I just strongly sensed that two things. One was not a— it was perfectly middle class but, but not wealthy. And two, that, uh, he would insist on paying for the meal.

So I didn't order an entree because, because I've done that before, done that many.

So I, I so get your fountain pen point, but I can afford one more than that guy could have. Uh, it, it's very— look, I don't want to dwell on it because I don't want to make people think I, I, I'm talking about some saintly behavior. I'm just aware, right? And I resonate. That's part— that's a big reason we resonate to each other, because we think that way. So that— anyway, that would— that's touching. Now I know why you're delaying.

Yes, I've been delaying a lot.

Uh, makes perfect sense. All right, I'll pick out one. What the hell, you don't like it, I'll keep it.

Okay.

Deal. That's right, that is a deal.

So because it's Dennis and Julie, and because I just— even outside of this, I just want to hear your thoughts— can we talk a little bit about casinos?

Oh, that's right, because this was, this was sort of a moment for me.

I had never been to a casino, and this hotel I was staying at, as I mentioned, was a casino.

And Julie has had somewhat of an insulated upbringing.

I don't— I—

it's not a bad thing.

Is that insulated?

Yeah.

Never have gone to a casino growing up in LA.

You didn't grow up.

Where the hell are their casinos? Oh my God, are there casinos? I'm looking at Sean. Really?

Yeah, yeah.

All the, all the producers are giving me a thumbs up.

It's like saying, where are their restaurants? They're all over the place.

I, I swear I don't.

And also, we're a car ride from Las Vegas, the gambling capital of Earth.

Okay, that I know. Las Vegas has that. I don't—

but you've never been there.

I've been to Las Vegas, but I was really young. So I guess I have been inside a casino, but I've never—

like, you never knew you were?

Yeah.

Okay, so go on.

Yeah, this was my first time, like, in a casino. No windows.

That's right.

So many lights, so many sounds.

Do you know why no windows?

Yes, they don't want you to know what time of day it is because they want you to keep gambling. Oh, trust me, I, I went down a rabbit hole. I was reading all about casinos, and it was 10:30 in the morning on a Friday. And by the way, this is— before I say this, people are going to think I'm judgmental and I'm wagging my finger. Anything in moderation, I don't judge.

Right.

Within the bounds of the law, I don't judge, including gambling.

Right.

However, this was a Friday morning. As I aforementioned, I had showed up to the hotel several hours before my speech. They weren't going to let me check in. And so I decided—

wait, did your hotel have a casino? The hotel you stayed at was a casino? Oh, it was? Okay, go on.

And I just decided to walk through the casino and there were so many people there at 10:30 in the morning on a Friday gambling. And please, you know, forgive me if I'm offending anyone who gambles. Again, in moderation, I totally understand. But they looked so ghostly. They looked so dead. They— I mean, it was just— it was really depressing. I think if it had been several— what?

Oh my gosh, wait, that's— then they're all what, within a few miles of here? Is that right?

Yes. Well, for those who are listening, just put up a map of LA and casinos. Okay, so I grew up around here. There are no casinos where I grew around where I grew up.

That's what I said, insulated. Okay, go ahead.

Okay, but I don't know if that's— look at all of the other sort of residential areas of LA. There are no casinos.

Okay, okay. Okay, Julie, God bless you. Go on. So you know, this is like—

this is like you're defending yourself.

I'm not accusing you. I'm not— I'm not accusing you.

By the way, the Shabbat dinner table, everyone, just so you know, everyone agreed with me that cohort is usable. Yes.

Okay, go on.

And that you are wrong. Anyway, so, uh, it was just— it was so ghost— they just— honestly, I know this is going to be a weird analogy for some people. It reminded me of communism. Even though gambling is the most capitalist thing ever, they all looked like robots. They all— like, I just got this sense that they were being used and they were cogs in the wheel. Like, it just— it felt so like they were being manipulated with the no windows. And I just— and the final thing I'll say, and then I'm very, very eager to hear your thoughts, is this is one of the reasons why I'm not libertarian. This is the reason why I'm conservative. Because I believe that you should let people do what you want, what they want to do within the bounds of the law. But you also have to diffuse values into society to make it work. I have no problem with people gambling in moderation, but I resent this culture that we live in where people talk about gambling and endorse gambling and, and, you know, try to encourage other people to do it and don't recognize that it is manipulating overwhelmingly working-class people because you usually do not win money when you're gambling. You lose money.

The lottery is a poor man's tax.

It is. It is. It is just so manipulative. And I have such a disdain and anger for elites in society who are not using their power responsibly in order to highlight this. They are using people and cultivate it. Yes. Oh, God.

So sick that my first question to you when we spoke was, What time of the day was it? And I analogized morning gambling with morning drinking. Alcoholics drink at 10:30 in the morning. Non-alcoholics don't. I mean, there may be exceptions, but that's basically a truism. And if you're gambling at 10:30 on a weekday, it's not like it's a weekend when they're taking off and they're sleeping at the hotel. But that's why your point was correct to note it was a Friday morning, not a Saturday or a Sunday. So I have been to innumerable casinos. I, I, I used to go to Las Vegas, believe it or not, to, to teach the Bible. I mean, which is hilarious to go to Vegas to teach. Well, there are a lot there are a lot of people who live there. It's a very big city.

That's true.

You can lead a normal life in Vegas. You can never go to the Strip, and then if they go, they go shopping or eating. So it isn't all— isn't all gambling. There's a normal life to be had in Vegas. It's a serious city now. Anyway, I, I came to realize 'Cause this was not something I ever saw in my extended family. There were no gambling addicts. So I came to understand it through the radio, as I've come to understand so much. People would call up and say they're in, you know, Gambling Anonymous, or Gamblers Anonymous, that's what it is, yeah. There are a lot of people's lives ruined by gambling, of course. And I came to realize another thing, which I wonder if you know. There are a lot of people who have— who are gambling addicts but never set foot in a casino or bet a nickel. They're in stocks. Oh, for many people, this is not a condemnation, I'm just describing a reality. The stock market is their, is their legitimizing gambling addiction expression.

Fascinating.

It is, isn't it? And now also, I'll tell you another fascinating thing. This has really been preoccupying me, as you probably know, for Not long, and I don't know why. It's the most obvious thing. I should have realized this at your age.

Nature.

Not human nature, our own individual nature. See, I get no credit. I deserve zero credit for not being a gambling addict. I want to be again. I want to gamble as much as you want to read this issue of The Absolute Sound from COVID to cover.

Same.

Right, exactly. And, and yet vast swaths of humanity love gambling. I mean, this is not an American thing at all. I mean, it's huge in Asia, for example.

Really?

Oh, huge.

Oh, I didn't know that.

Yes. And why I don't have it and vast You know, billions of people do have it. There's no, there's no answer to that. It's, it's, you're very lucky or unlucky with what nature you're dealt with, dealt when you're, when you were born, as it were. I told you, my 6-year-old grandson, he's a total character. I mean, and you know what, I, you know what I realized They say, of course, you can transition to the other sex. It is easier. I don't believe you can, okay? You can certainly feel it and look it, and I understand that, but I don't believe you can become the other sex. But anyway, you can no more become a character than you can become the other sex.

Please tell the story to this.

Oh, you mean the one from to illustrate how much he's a character. So cute. It cracks me up to observe him because I'm a character, so I totally relate. You're a character, by the way. I don't know if everybody knows that about you.

I know, I know. I feel like— I feel, I feel so myself on this show, right? I'm not, right?

But you're not a character, right?

I'm not a character on the show. It's because I have two sides of me, one that's super goofy and weird, and then another side that's very intense and intellectual. And I feel like the, the ladder side comes out more.

Well, what you'll eventually have to work through, because I want people to know you and it will be more— make you even more effective— is how to do that without acting.

Yes, I can't act. I mean, it's impossible, right?

Okay, so, but I want to— you'll figure out, yeah, over time. But so I was giving— I was in Mexico for the Passover holiday as I was speaking I was invited to be the speaker at a Passover retreat. A lot of, a lot of people— whoops— a lot of people were there in Cancun at a stunning, stunning resort. And the reason I do this every year is I get to be with my two sons and their wives and their children. One does not yet have children. But anyway, so it makes for a wonderful Passover holiday for all of us. So I gave 3 speeches, and one of the speeches I asked a question of the audience, which I rarely do, but I was very curious to get— and I'll briefly state it. In the liturgy of the Passover Seder, there is the story of the 4 sons. It's called the 4 sons. Almost every Jew who knows anything about Judaism knows it. And there are four sons. So there is the bad son, the wise son, the simple son, and the son who doesn't know how to ask. Those are the four sons and how you should address them. So I said, even as a kid, I wondered if there's a bad son, why isn't there a good son? So I said, I'm just curious, how many here— and there are about 200 people at the speech— how many here here have ever wondered why is there no good son given that there's a bad son? And literally about 5 hands go up. People had never wondered about that. And I look around and I see someone in the front row is raising his hand. It's my 6-year-old grandson who wasn't sitting with his father, who exactly was there like on his own and seriously raising his hand. I wondered why there's no good— I, it's hard for me to believe he has.

Yeah, do you think he just was doing it?

I have no idea. I, I forgot to really ask him, but oh God, did I laugh seeing his hand go up.

He is so cute. He is such a— and I'm not, you know, I don't—

no, no, I know that.

I'm not a big kid person, right?

Believe it or not, I mean, I'm the same. I, I don't Oh, this is really another subject for another time. I'll do it now even. Okay, so I am, I am now going to elicit hate mail. Oh no, but I'm prepared. I, it's hard, it's hard for me to even say because people do it with such love and I take it that way. I just want people to understand that. But I don't have a particular interest in seeing a picture of your grandchild. And I therefore never show anyone a picture of my grandchildren because I assume they're as bored by it as I am of a picture of their grandchild.

I love your honesty. I love your honesty.

So I wonder how— but okay, thank you. I agree. I told you I'm crazed on truth issues. But I'm very curious how many people think like I do.

I think more than, than one would admit. I would say that I agree. There is a but. I loved meeting your two grandsons. Can I say their names?

Yeah, because you know me. Yeah, of course.

Yeah. Jack. Jack and Daniel. Because I know you. They're related to you. I want to see if they look like you. I want to see if they have your mannerisms. It's fascinating to me. Easy for me to observe. But when I meet someone random and they're showing me a photo of their grandchild, it's difficult for me to—

right. And I think that women are more into it than men even.

Yeah.

So if you're not that much into it, I would like to know how many men are just thrilled to see a picture of your grandchild.

Well, this is— well, I want to make a distinction that's really, really, really important. Dennis and I— I'm going to speak for you, I feel comfortable doing so because I know you so well— we love hearing about people's lives. You know, when I— oh yes, and I ask people questions about their—

oh, I even want to hear about their grandchildren. Yes, not, not stories, but what, how did they turn out, what, where do they— yeah.

Oh yeah, I don't want the viewers to confuse this with lack of interest. Like, anything you tell about your life, oh no, just fake it.

I'd rather hear it from them than from me.

Yes, I actually love asking random people who I don't know from Adam about their lives. But yes, showing a photo, like, that just doesn't resonate.

I—

okay, so my mom would agree with you.

She's all, really?

Oh, totally. My mom says to me like, oh my God, who cares?

Well, really, that's true.

Yeah. Now, yeah, what did he say? I can't hear him.

Tell people how they could send pictures of their—

oh yes, you can bad. Actually, wait, I feel so bad because Dennis and Julie listeners have sent me photos of their families.

That's different. I love seeing that.

I love seeing that too. I like—

no, no, this is— we're talking random.

Yes.

You're sitting next to someone in the plane. Oh, and, and they— okay, okay. I just want to make that clear. I, I love pictures of listeners' families.

I love seeing what they look like.

Yes. I have always cherished looking into their eyes the screen. Okay, would I rather— oh yes, even worse. As well, here's it— that's an interesting question, Sean, though you don't— you might have meant that as a joke.

What's his question?

Would you rather see their grandchildren or their pets? And I have to say, and I, I, and I am not of the, oh, I don't have children, I have two cats I don't— I'm sorry, I want you to have children, but if it's a picture, I'd rather see your dog.

We have to figure out why that is. I think it's because you don't want to keep talking about someone you don't know. I don't know.

A kid is a kid, but every dog is fun to look at. They make me laugh. All right, listen, you just hate kids.

This is—

this is the headline. I know, that's what the headline is.

Remember when you said, oh, the fifth graders?

That's right. Yeah. Yes, I know it's a joke. I know.

Ask my grandchildren if they think I hate her, by the way, because I want to work on Dennis and Julie not just communicating in shorthand. The thing that we're referring to—

oh yeah, that's a good point—

is there's this 5th grade class that said there was a poster that said, "The world is better because you're in it." Dennis criticized it, and then the left media said, "He hates children." Dennis hates 5th graders. This is proof.

Dennis attacks 5th graders because I'm not prepared to say to all 5th graders, "The world is better because you're in it." Here's the irony. I'm begging people to have children so that they have 5th graders. The left doesn't want you to have children because of global warming, but I'm the one who hates 5th graders.

Everything is upside down.

Everything is upside down.

You can send me photos of your pet at julie@julie-hartman.com, and you can follow us. Actually, are we transitioning away from Dennis Julie Pod? Okay, see, we're trying to make everything more centralized and easier. So the Dennis and Julie show, this episode, it's going to be on the Julie Hartman YouTube show page, and then you can follow me at Julie R. Hartman, and that's where you'll see Dennis and Julie videos. We just don't want to send people to a million different places, or maybe I'm just a narcissist and want it all to be—

by the way, I'm getting— I'm preoccupied with this subject, and I know we should be saying goodbye. I, when I think of it. If I meet somebody and I— and they have an adult child, I would be interested in seeing.

Yes, because you want to set them up with me.

That is entirely accurate, but not only because of that. That is true. I scour the earth for your husband.

Thank you.

That is one of the reasons God has put me in this world.

Where are you? No, I'm kidding. Boy, I sound so pathetic. See you next time.

That's so funny.

Sean just looked at me like, you sound so pathetic.

Your beloved dog and a stranger are both drowning. You can only save one. Who do you save? Every time Dennis Prager asks that question, his audience splits three ways. One-third chooses the dog, one-third chooses the stranger, and one-third aren't sure.

Why?

Because we live in an age where increasingly feelings define right and wrong. But if morality is based on emotion, then murder, rape, and theft are just opinions. And if people feel justified, why is rioting or destruction wrong at all? In his new book, If There Is No God, Dennis Prager explains why civilizations cannot survive without objective morality, and why Judeo-Christian values shape the moral foundations of the free world.

If you claim that certain things are good, certain things are evil, independent of how you feel about it, you are in effect affirming God.

If There Is No God by Dennis Prager, available now at PragerStore.com. That's PragerStore.com.