Dennis & Julie: United States of Despair

Your dog and a stranger are drowning. You can only save one. Who do you choose? Dennis Prager says your answer reveals everything about how you define right and wrong. In his new book, If There Is No God, Prager exposes the danger of emotion-based morality and why without objective truth, society descends into chaos. This isn't a religious book. It's a rational case for moral clarity in a confused age. If There Is No God from Dennis Prager. Order now at PragerStore.com.

I'm all right today. That's the perfect lyric for what I want to to talk to Julie about. Hi, Dennis Prager with Julie Hartman. It's the Dennis and Julie podcast.

What number are we at? Can our podcast drink yet?

24.

We're at 24.

Isn't it? No, this is the— wow, this is the living example of one of my pet— not peeves— pet advocacies in life. Do anything regularly, even if it's short. And the accomplishment is enormous. The trick is to do it regularly. Alan Estrin, the most disciplined human being I know, and perhaps on earth.

Dennis Prager, for those of you who don't know.

Right, the living martyr, as he's well known. The ability that he has in self-discipline, so he has written one page of diary for half a century. Since he was a kid.

Every day.

Every day. It could be a boring day. It could be a fascinating day.

Oh, that motivates me hugely. One page. Oh, I should do that.

That's the way to do it. That's a perfect example. Do a little. Study Portuguese 15 minutes a day. You'll speak Portuguese in a year. 15 minutes.

Gosh, I can't believe that we're at 24. I started this, let us not forget, out of my college dorm room. Can you imagine?

I'm well aware. Oh, the, the charm of that room, Julie.

It's painful to think. Well, the room was configured— I, I actually got lucky. It was configured such that you couldn't see my bed, so it sort of did.

Yeah, we did not see a bed.

Professional. But it's funny, I, I'll let you all in on a secret. Before the podcast, I would get all of these things off of my shelf and throw it to the other side of the room so that the background looked really clean. And it's so funny because It looked pristine, but if you saw the other side of the room—

No, that is right. It was like, uh, oh, what is the, um, uh, the Potemkin Village. Potemkin Village. You ever hear that term?

No.

Oh, you'll love this. I love teaching Julie some historical fact. She knows a lot.

And some colloquialisms like the monkey's uncle.

That's true. I like that too. Correct.

Which I have used since you taught it to me.

Did anybody react?

My dad said, how do you know what that is?

Oh, you did. You said, I'll be a monkey's uncle. That's the, that's the phrase. So a Potemkin village was something the Soviets set up to have visitors think that the people were happy and prosperous. It was a fake village. So you did that to your dorm room?

That's a great term.

Oh, Potemkin village is a very great term. It's even better than I'm a monkey's uncle, or I'd be a monkey's uncle. Correct. So now I— now what did I want to say to you? What did we just—

the issue of—

no, that I know, that we discussed beforehand. I thought there was a, a continuum here. Oh no. Yeah, okay, well, by trying to help us here, but he is trying. Okay, so do you see the mess on my desk? I, I did not do what Julie did to her dorm room.

I can— oh yes, people can see it. It's so funny, when the music was coming in, you frantically just pushed it over.

Well, not frantically.

That's true.

Just very gently, very gently.

Sean just said people should know that's clean. It is.

No, it's clean, but it's messy. So I am now about to tell you, Julie, if you don't know this story, I would say that in a gigantic series of hilariously embarrassing things in my life, I think this is number one. Ready? So I was still living in New York. I was your age. I left New York when I was 25. So I was living— I had lived in Brooklyn, I had lived in Manhattan, and then I lived in Queens, my last borough. I was in my Queens apartment and it was a very bad time, like now, in terms of crime. So bad that New Yorkers would leave their doors open to the car, unlocked, and put a sign, "Unlocked, please don't smash glass." Really? Yes.

My God.

So sure enough, even though parked at my apartment building in Whitestone, Queens, My, uh, the window was shattered with a rock. A guy threw a boulder through it and took out my car stereo, okay, which were always separate units in those days. Okay, so I reported it to the police, and it was a time when police actually responded even to theft. Today, that's, you know, they'll tell you to, you know, have a great day. I get a, uh I get a knock on the door one night. New York, New York City Police. I, I open up. They stop. They look around and they go, holy shit, did they do a job.

You gotta bleep it, John.

Yeah, you'll bleep it. Yeah. Is that hilarious?

Did they do a job?

They thought my apartment was ransacked.

Oh my gosh. Oh my God. Honestly, I totally believe it. No offense, saying your office at home.

That's correct. Yes.

Oh, that is hilarious. Oh, of course she would put that in.

It is. It's the greatest single. I have a lot of embarrassing stories. That is number one. Oh, they came for my car. Be, you know, being robbed. They thought the apartment was registered.

You go, no, this is just me. Oh, that's hilarious.

So I spent 10 minutes embarrassedly, embarrassedly telling them, officers, it really wasn't the apartment.

You should have replied, oh, I know, my God, can you believe it? Well, again, I just want to tell all of you at home Dennis's office is— no offense, I'm sorry— it is a nightmare. Your desk, I should say, your desk. It has— we spent last summer, I think it was a week-long project. Seriously, it took 2 hours a day for 5 straight days. We tried to clear off the desk heaps and heaps of newspapers and magazines and classical music books and checks I had not ever, ever, ever deposited. Seriously, like birthday cards from the '70s. Cigars, ashes from the cigars, fountain pens, leftover peanut butter M&Ms. Like, you name it, it's under there. And we finally—

my wife calls it a tell. It's an archaeological dig.

It really is.

So you find things from the past.

No, you would pull down and go, oh my God, my 65th birthday card from Alan. Or, you know, the Prager— people would send PragerU checks and it would be under there. So ready for this? We clear it off. It was the happiest moment of my life. I think I have a I'm going to send it to Sean and have Sean put it up for those of you watching on YouTube. I was so delighted I took a picture. I think I went away for a week. I went to New York to visit some friends. I come back and Sue had texted me or called me saying, just a warning, your work has kind of gone to waste. I came back and the desk was—

You should not ever think of it as having gone to waste.

Well, how could I not?

Because the dig would be deeper if it had you not come.

Fair enough.

Yes. So I got a question, a super serious one, which sort of plagues me. And we've discussed this obviously privately, so it's time to discuss it publicly. Things are uniquely bad in America, uniquely, certainly since the Civil War. And I often think that is horrible, and the Civil War was horrible. Americans had— putting slavery aside, which is a huge thing to put aside, admittedly, but putting that aside, Americans in the North and South had a lot in common. They both loved the country. Even the Confederate flag was, after all, stars and stripes and red, white, and blue. It was just a different configuration. There was a there was a lot— there were a lot of shared things other than the horror of slavery. Today we share nothing.

Nothing, right? Not music, not— certainly not politics, but even going down to music, art, the way we dress.

Not whether, whether an adolescent girl's breasts should be removed, right? So it's scary. So that's the issue, the scary part. So I'm worried about the country, but I fight, obviously, and I, I don't despair. I have recently mentioned this on my show, but I'd like to tell you this. This really, you know, like stuff you'll read, whether it's me or anybody, and you go, whoa, what, that is a life-changing point. I had one. So I'm going to get into the Bible for a second to explain this. So I'm working on the fourth book of the five books of the Bible, of the first five books of the Torah, and it's the Book of Numbers, the fourth book. And there's a story there of the Israelites, Moses specifically, sending in 12 spies to come back and speak about attacking Canaan. In the upcoming war for the land of Israel, known then as Canaan. 10 of the spies give a terrible report. And by doing that, they're saying, hey, listen, God brought the plagues on Egypt, it's true. God took us out of Egypt. God split the sea. God had the sea go over the Egyptian army. God feeds us manna every day. God provides light at night and a special cloud cloud in the day. Nevertheless, we don't trust that he'll get us into Canaan. Okay, so God gets annoyed, really annoyed. And this one of the commentators on this chapter wrote brilliantly, he said, God can tolerate a lot of sins, but the sin of the spies was despair, and that God doesn't tolerate. And I have adopted that, and I say now regularly, despair is a sin.

Well, that's your whole point on your Happiness Hour, that we have a moral responsibility to be happy, a point that I never encountered or even thought of prior to reading your work.

Well, that— yeah, that, that's key. That, that's the key to that book. Thank you. But you're totally right, it's related. But he— right now, I have to address the issue of people despairing. Okay. So I, I could despair. I'm immersed in what the left is doing to this country.

It's our job to talk about it every day.

Yes, that's right. And you will see it will weigh on you. That's why you're going to need a Sabbath every week.

That's right.

I'm not joking.

I know you're not joking. And it really does help.

It's my anti-burnout mechanism.

The Shabbat dinners have, I think, really made me healthier.

Oh, I believe that.

There's no, you know, again, I grew up, I'm getting off a little bit, we'll come back to this, but I grew up in a secular household. If anything, it was Christian. We went, I think, once or twice a year to church. And I really appreciate how in Judaism there is something like the Shabbat. There really is no counterpart in Christianity.

It's a tragedy.

It is a tragedy. They should make one.

Well, every Christian that I talk to about this agrees with you, and then, you know, nothing really much changes.

Why is it uniquely Jewish?

Okay, you— as you say, we're going to get back to it. No, no, no, it's great.

As usual, you—

so you're going to find this fascinating, what I'm about to tell you. It's one of the Ten Commandments, right? Okay, so I have asked Catholic priests and Protestant ministers all of my life, since my first radio show 40 years ago, which involved the priest, minister, and rabbi, different ones every week.

Religion on the Line, right?

So I would ask privately— now privately, then publicly— to Christians, Catholic or Protestant, are Christians obligated to observe the Sabbath commandment? And believe it or not, in decades of asking this, it's roughly 50/50. 50% say we're not, 50% say we are.

Why are they—

well, it's the only commandment that they say that about, right?

Yes, because of course you're obligated to the other 9.

Yes. So they would say it was specifically given to, to the, uh, to the Jews or to the Israelites, Hebrews, whatever term you want to use, and that it is not repeated. All the others are repeated in the New Testament, but that is not. That's their argument. I, I'm not arguing with them. I'm only saying that the loss to Christians is monumental.

It is. As someone who grew up again secular slash Christian and then only in the past year have come to Shabbat dinners, it is a loss.

The average— the, the not average, but the, the typical response from any non-Jew, not just clergy, any non-Jew coming through Shabbat dinner, and I've always had non-Jews at my Shabbat dinner, was you have this every week.

You say it's like Christmas and Thanksgiving every week, and it really is, but it really is, especially with the right crowd. And we— yes, God knows we have the right crowd and the preparation of the food.

It is like Christmas/Thanksgiving every week.

It is.

And do you know, I learned a lot of my ability to speak and think from the Shabbat table.

I'm learning. We—

That's right. Well, you see, you see how long it goes. Every 3 hours, every Jewish home at minimum. That's exactly right. So my father and brother— I only had one sibling, he's 6 years older than me. And my father and brother would talk and talk and talk. My mother would sometimes chime in. She generally would listen in these matters. And I would listen to them. And it was a mixture, just like on our table, of the trivial and the monumental. That's what they would do. And then when I felt— I don't know, by 8th grade, 9th grade, or 8th grade, I guess, 7th grade, anywhere around there— I started to chime in. So here's the beauty I'll never forget. My father looked at me one time very early on in my speaking up at the table. And he goes, Dennis, that's nonsense. And I remember thinking, believe it or not, I was not hurt.

I believe it.

Good.

Knowing you, I believe it.

That's right. And I just thought, he's right, it was nonsense. What I said did not make sense. My father's voice remained in me speaking publicly almost my whole life. Dennis, are you saying anything that's nonsense?

Wow.

All from the Shabbat table. Where do kids have that ability today? What table?

Supposedly the dinner table, but people are increasingly lackadaisical about having a set time. I love the way that you position the benefits of Shabbat in your Torah commentary. You say, first of all, it's really the only time of the week well, not just time of the week, the only time where time is sanctified. That's a unique invention of the Torah. And second of all, I loved how you phrased it. You said it allows you to consider what you're doing on the other 6 days of the week. Like God, you are taking a rest and you are looking back at what you created or what you did in that time. And it's a reset for you. And I have certainly found that coming to your Shabbat dinners because it's sort of, it's like a guidepost for me. Or that's probably not the right word, a marker for me every week. When I go to Shabbat, I think, okay, what have I accomplished in this past week? I think about the things that I was ruminating about the week before, the things I wanted to accomplish. And then the next week, and I'm at Shabbat, I think, did I do that? So it's a really— it's so helpful to have one set thing a week that you look forward to. And that again, serves as a marker.

Now that you're a regular, by the way, Should it happen, you are. And when it will happen, it will undoubtedly happen for whatever reason, that you won't come one Friday night, you'll miss it.

I can't come this Friday night. I didn't even tell you. We have a birthday dinner for a family friend.

You'll miss it.

I'm really sad about it. Dennis has this great saying. You've said it to me on the phone recently. You said, you know, the worst thing about missing a Shabbat—

no, the punishment.

Oh, that's right. The punishment of missing a Shabbat is that you missed a Shabbat.

Exactly right.

And boy, is that true. And you know what else is so great specifically about our Shabbat? You talk very much, and I really appreciate it, about the concept of non-blood love, loving people who aren't in your family. I have really come to adore the people at our dinner table. Ages are from a— what, how old is Sasha? 6 months old, right? A 6-month-old infant to— we have someone in their 70s or 80s, right?

We have 20 or under 10. We've seen every decade: 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, sometimes 80. And no one gives a damn, and everyone participates equally. Exactly correct.

And it's so nice because I've really gotten to know the other families, and they remember things in my life, and they listen to this podcasts, and they know when my birthday is, and I know when they're— you know, it just, it's so special.

It, it sort of embodies a theory of mine: if you want to be truly human, get religious.

Oh God, I'm telling you, I think the biggest thing that you've given me— and that's, you know, it's hard to say what the biggest thing is— is an appreciation for religion. I am infinitely happier, healthier, more principled, and I was pretty principled before, but religion has really revolutionized my life in so many ways. And by the way, this is a separate conversation. I do want to, as Jen Psaki would say, circle back to the concept of it's a sin to feel despair.

Right.

But I am actually, for myself, I am grateful that I grew up secular. Because one of the things that you talked about at your shul, which is your every Saturday, for those who don't know, synagogue, you talked about how religion can be taught to people in such a bad way and it can really turn people off. I am lucky that I didn't have that.

That's very interesting.

I had zero slash neutral. I didn't have bad. So then when, thank, thank God, the first really exposure to religion I had was your Torah commentary, which is the best first exposure you could get. I was so receptive to it. I don't know if I would have been as receptive to it if I had gotten a bad version of religion.

It is a fact of life that for a lot of Jews, Catholics, and Protestants, the religiosity that they got was an inoculation against religiosity.

That's— that was the situation for my parents. My mom grew up in in an incredibly Catholic household. They went to church every Sunday. They had the holy days of obligation. She would talk about being 6 or 7 years old sitting in the church and they would read aloud, and the first nail was put into Jesus's arm. And, you know, the— they went through each stage of his crucifixion. And she, she went to Catholic girls' high school and she really felt like religion was shoved down her throat. I think my father felt the same way. Of course, you know, my parents, they're healthy people, they have respect for religion, and they were the beneficiaries of their religious instruction in many ways. But I think they were determined to raise my sisters and me as secular because they got sort of too much.

You're isolating the, the stigmata issue, right? The, the wounds of Jesus. Yes, on the cross.

For a 6-year-old, that's a lot.

Well, 7 or 8. Yes, but my point is a different one, which is really worthy of its own hour, if not week. So the strength of Christianity is faith, and the strength of Judaism is law. So it's just true. It's just a given. Very often in life If not done properly, your strengths become weaknesses. It's like I give the example of real beauty in a woman. A stunning woman, like a very wealthy guy, they have very real problems. Do you— the guy goes, does anybody love me because of me, or do you want my money? Does anybody love me because I'm me, or because you love my beauty?

Right.

It's— so look, it's better to be beautiful than ugly, and it's better to be rich than poor, but it's better to be good-looking than gorgeous, and it's better to work to earn money than be given a lot of it from your father. Okay, so what does that have to do with this? The strengths of these two religions are also their curses. You end up What is the danger for a guy who inherits a fortune of money? He relies on it. What is the danger for a beautiful woman? She relies on it. Not a good idea. You better develop other stuff or it's over. So Christianity came to rely entirely, almost entirely on faith. Judaism almost entirely on halacha, Jewish law. And It is not— it didn't work out great for either of them. You need— what they both need to do is— I'll be totally honest why my Bible commentary is important. I make it relevant. So, so you learn about Jesus's suffering on the cross, but I need to understand as a Catholic kid, why does that matter to me? Okay, this is a tragedy, God gave his son, etc. But how does that affect me? What is it? What right now they're saying that, that boys and girls are malleable. What is, what does my religion have to say about that? If it doesn't have anything to say about the most important issues of your day, it's irrelevant.

That is absolutely the strength of your commentary. And another thing I know I've said many times, but it is always worth reiterating, is in your introduction you say, I'm not trying to make you a Jew. I'm not trying to make you a Christian. I'm trying to make you an ethical monotheist.

That's right.

And I'm telling you, when I read that introduction, And that is what made me continue into the rest of the book, because it wasn't filled with an agenda, and it was focused on the most important thing. And that's what I wish I could impart with the utmost respect for Christians and Jews alike, that you can't start off by saying Jesus is going to save your soul. You can't start off with that pitch. You've got to moderate the base.

Why is God important? That is what every religious figure should be talking about.

You have to make it modern.

Yes, or modernly relevant. It's ancient, and I'm happy with it being—

of course, I mean, the greatest part of it is that it's ancient, but you— yes, you have to make it relevant.

By the way, it's called The Rational Bible. I have no compunction about saying it. Nobody writes a Bible commentary for 12 years to make money, but, uh, but it's life-changing, and it's meant to be. By the— you pick up on everything that I got to say. It gives me joy. That even in the introduction— the introduction is important.

Oh, it's— you— and you wrote that in the beginning. You said if you read this introduction, it will enrich your understanding of the book. And I said, okay, I'm going to give this guy a shot. Right. I read your Torah commentary before I read Still the Best Hope.

I didn't know that until you just mentioned that, I think last week. I was very moved.

That's right, I did. And I learned about the Torah commentary through listening to your show. Because you publicized it. So sometimes we get a little annoyed repeating and publicizing it, but it's— it really is worth it.

Bless you.

You know, I've sent autographed copies to many of my friends. You're always so sweet, Dennis, about writing a note at the beginning to people, but they— people who I send it to love it because, again, it's just— it's, it's not really— it's not holy.

It's about life.

I mean, it is holy, but you know what I mean?

It's not excessively holy.

It's just It's life.

An atheist would get a lot out of it.

And when you talk, I mean, the thing that just astounded me was, again, every single story, you took away a lesson about human nature. I go back to one of my favorites, the Cain and Abel story. Do you choose to envy or emulate the people who are better than you? The Noah and the Ark story, you know, that Noah was righteous among his generations. We have to judge people based on the context of their time. God, do I wish religion— because every— so many people would adopt it if it were taught this way.

Oh, it kills me.

It really does kill me too.

I always felt I had the antidote to evil, right? And my own— my only issue from high school on was how do I get it out to people?

Well, I think you've done a pretty good job.

Well, I've done a pretty good job, but the job is so immense.

It is a mess.

I don't sit and celebrate Well, I hope to— anyway, if I got you— well, uh, you know I mean that, but I want everybody to know who's listening. So the despair is true. So there is reason to despair, but you cannot do it. That's my— that's my one sentence reaction to the question, watching what is happening to America. That the first time in its history freedom is truly being assaulted, truly. And the most important of all, the freedom of speech. The, the, and the dismissal of humans on the basis of the color of their skin, the evaluations of human. That's why I say liberals are so weak They're sweet, they're bright, they are, they're weak.

I almost have—

well, I mean, I just want to just make that totally— sorry, so don't— no, there's— okay, they're not an issue. Just remember what you wanted to say. It is the opposite of liberalism to say that color matters. The opposite. The Ku Klux Klan said color matters. The Nazis said color matters.

And now the left says color matters, and liberals are okay with I have to tell you, increasingly, this is the point that I was going to make when I rudely interrupted you. I am more annoyed nowadays with liberals than I am with leftists. Usually it was the other way around where the leftists are the more militant ones and the liberals are the moderate ones. But perhaps this is a bit heavy-handed or unkind to say, I really do believe a lot of leftists are sick. We talked about that last week about sort of a internal part of their nature that's gone awry that compels them to these bogus destructive ideas. I really think there's, again, a sickness among the militant leftists, but among the liberals, it's more cowardice. I'm not as convinced that they're sick, but they acquiesce to the demands of the left or they ignore them, and I think that's almost worse. As many of you know, I recently graduated from college, and I want to tell you about a great college in New York City. The King's College is a Christian liberal arts college in New York's Financial District providing a disciplined curriculum with a Christian worldview both in person and online. The King's College has majors in business, finance, politics, journalism, media, religion, and more. Every program is rooted in a politics, philosophy, and economics core curriculum which provides students with a framework for understanding the way the world works and how it is influenced. Because of this, King's graduates are well-rounded critical thinkers. King's faculty pride themselves in not sharing their opinions on topics, but instead teaching the historical context that roots the issues of the day. They like to say that students come to King's to earn their opinion. Faculty don't teach students what to think, but how to think. Both the online and in-person education from King's will prepare you to interact in any industry, King's alumni thrive after graduation. Students go on to top graduate schools at Harvard, Columbia, and Yale, or begin careers at reputable and impressive organizations such as the United Nations, the Department of Justice, the Wall Street Journal, Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, Charity:water, Marc Jacobs, and more. Find out how you can attend the King's College in person or online by visiting tkc.edu today. Don't just go to college, go to King's. Start your journey at tkc.edu.

Because it doesn't come from conviction, right? The leftists have conviction. Yeah, the liberals don't, right? If they had any liberal convictions, they'd vote against the left.

It's almost the question of who's worse, the bully or the bystander. As bad as the bully is, the bully may just, again, truly be sick or Truly have some deep issues, but the bystander— well, it's almost worse than the bully.

Well, and they're not bystanders, right?

They're encouragers, right? Exactly right. Well, you know, I, I'm so grateful for my parents in many ways, but I think on this point of despair, as we've talked about, I have an older sister with very severe autism, and it's just from day one in so many different ways been difficult for our family, not just processing the hardship of having their child, my sister, have her life essentially taken away, but also her care has been so horrible. There are many reasons for my parents to despair, and they never ever did growing up. I really saw just, they really imparted to me, you never ask for pity, you never burden other people with your sadness or moping around. You deal with it stoically and with resilience. And I just, I think seeing that example and having that put into me has enriched me in so many ways. I really think it's what's made me conservative because, because I think I've—

once you, once you don't let my emotions take—

yes, it's A, you, you don't let yourself, you don't think of yourself as a victim. My parents never ever thought of themselves as that. And second of all, relatedly, you don't let your emotions take over. You, and especially you don't push your emotions onto other people.

So I just want to repeat, we both recognize that it is a legitimate response.

Of course. And of course there were days when my parents had despair. Of course there are days when we have despair.

No, no, I'm referring to America.

Right.

I'm looking at it, by the way, certainly for your parents. Right. Certainly. I salute them too. It's a very beautiful analogy that you gave with regard to them. By the way, it's lackadaisical, not laxadaisical.

Did I say laxadaisical? Oh, I do know better. It sounds like laxative.

Oh God, so this is hilarious. So I'm sorry, on any number— the reason that I thought of it was I made a mental note when you said it, but I didn't want to interrupt that. By the way, you— and you do it to me for graduate from.

Yeah, I know. I did it last week.

So for the record, you have two resilient human beings at these microphones who actually welcome being corrected. Of course. No, you say of course, but this is the weakening of the American— your generation, but even before your generation. The whole thing of trigger, the whole thing of a safe space, of going to hide if a conservative speaker comes to college instead of— you're so weak, you hide. It is the celeb— leftism is the celebration of weakness, of meekness.

Yes. Yeah. Well, that's what Nietzsche says about Christianity, that liberalism has taken the worst parts of Christianity. I don't know if Nietzsche fully criticizes Christianity as a whole. I'd have to go back and read him, but he says that liberalism has taken what he sees to be the worst parts and pulled them out and celebrated them.

Spell Nietzsche.

N-I-E-T-Z-C-H-E.

It's not S-C-H-E. You may be right.

Wait. I actually—

I— N-I-E-T-Z.

Oh God. C-H-E. N-I-E-T-Z-C-H-E. Yeah, that's what I think it is. Yeah, that's what it is.

Nietzsche. Nietzsche.

Yes.

Is that what you said the first time?

Well, we'd have to go back and listen to it. I don't know.

Oh, I was right.

I said S. I think I said S.

Oh, I can't wait for people to—

That's hilarious. We both go, I was right.

That's funny.

Oh my God.

N-I-E-T-Z-S-C-H-E.

Right. I think I may have said that at the beginning. We're going to go back and people can rewind it pretty fast. Sean, you got to go back and let us know.

I— this will fascinate.

We're going to battle it out.

But you— so you know what, this is, this is really a great topic. The, the weak, the weakening of the American child. Which is started— it started with the— my parents' generation raising the baby boomers with Dr. Spock.

You never—

did you ever hear of him? I heard of Benjamin Spock. Yeah, probably, uh, did more harm than, uh, than a lot of people not meaning to. But it was the, oh, listen to your child. It was the antithesis of a strict upbringing, let's put it that way. So the best thing you could do, one of the best for your child, is make them resilient.

Yep.

Do you know my favorite? You don't know my favorite story. You'll love this. This is so—

besides the police thinking that you're—

oh yeah, well, that's, that's the most embarrassing. Yes, it was a good one.

It's very good. And so, so makes sense.

You understand. So I'm in high school. And the only reason I made the basketball team in my sophomore year was my height. I was the tallest kid in the school. It was a Jewish school. And the coach, who was not a sweet man, let's put it that way, announces the final cuts and then says to the entire team and everyone assembled in the gym, Well, Prager made the team. We really scraped the bottom of the barrel.

Oh gosh. Oh my. People today would cry.

Their parents would sue the school. Right, right. Exactly, exactly. Forget about it. So this is how I know what I was like, because I could tap into certain reactions to special moments. I remember thinking exactly what I'm going to tell you. This guy is an a-hole, and he's right. I thought both thoughts.

Okay, so I have had— I, I don't think I've ever talked to you about this. You know that I was a very serious athlete in high school. I was actually a very serious athlete starting from the time I was 5. I was in swimming every single day after school starting at 5 years old. Then I went on to play soccer Not to brag, but here I am bragging. My team, when we were— I think I was 12 years old— we were third in the state. We were, yep, the third best team, which is, you know, you got to get to a big state. It's a big state. And also, given the weather and the size, there are a lot of people playing sports. So to get to that level, you have to practice a lot. So I did soccer, I did swimming, and then I did water polo. So I have had probably a dozen to two dozen coaches. And I can think of maybe 2 or 3 coaches who were nice. All the other coaches I had were really, really mean.

Like camp guards?

Yes, like would scream at you. I have so many memories, again from the time that I was little, of being on the soccer field and having, you know, making a bad pass or a bad play or not running fast enough, and the coach screaming at me in front of the parents on the sidelines, the whole team, the opposing team, their parents, the referee. I mean, it was public humiliation. And this would happen to me in water polo. It happened to me in swimming. And I just, and you know, when the coach would scream at me, I'd think I would never do this to someone else. If I were a coach, I would never scream at them this. I mean, I had coaches that would take their clipboard and throw it on. I had a coach kicked out of the game once. I mean, you would not believe the gamut of people I have seen in my life.

But you survived.

But I survived. And you know what? And you know, my parents, if the coach ever got really bad, would intervene. They, you know, they didn't just allow me to be ridiculed and abused. But I'm grateful that they kept me in those sports, especially now as I'm getting older. And I'm oddly grateful that I had those coaches because it made me develop tough skin. I remember being on the soccer field sometimes and the coach would be screaming at me and I'd feel the tears start going up.

Really?

Well, this— only one, I mean, I got, I got thick skin really fast, but I do remember one time, because it's more, your parents are right there, you know, it's mortifying enough to make a bad play and then on top of it to have the coach scream at you for it and draw more attention to the fact that you did it, it was awful. But God, am I grateful because I think to myself, no matter what boss I have, luckily I got very lucky with a great boss, but whoever I encounter in my life or whatever I encounter, I know that I can handle it.

So you— so it's interesting question. Do you think that your thick skin is built in or you learned it?

I think it's both.

Yeah.

So I always had things—

I don't think I learned it. I think it was just built in because I think so rationally. When I'm insulted, my first question is, is there any truth to it? And what he said was disgusting in terms of meanness, but 100% true. Having me on the team was scraping the bottom of the barrel. I knew that.

You know what, when I first became conservative, if you will, I want to change my description of that. I think it's more that when I realized or was awoken to my conservative instincts, I obviously went down this rabbit hole of listening to different pundits and sometimes For instance, you know that I'm a big fan of Candace Owens. Sometimes at the beginning when I would watch her, I thought that she said things in a particularly incendiary way, like she could have rephrased it or toned it down a little bit. But then I thought to myself, am I going to throw out all of what she's saying just because I don't like the way that she's saying it? There, you know, there must be, and there is, I realized that there were huge kernels of truth. So, and again, I think I got that from my time in sports because when I did make a bad play, even though the coach is screaming at me, I mean, he was right.

Well, anyway, what is the coach supposed to do? Obviously insulting is wrong, but a tender approach is not as effective. Oh, Julie, I, you know, you're such a wonderful player, but I just want to point out that—

Yeah, totally.

By the way, I never asked you that. I know you swam, not professionally, but competitive, almost professionally. What, what stroke?

Freestyle. I was a sprint freestyle swimmer.

So, um, um, you know, I'm interested in everything, so I have a question for you. What percentage of your victory or defeat depended on the initial dive?

So interesting you ask that because that was one of the things that I wasn't particularly good at. My swim coach said that I had a rainbow dive. I tried to get a lot of height. You're actually supposed to get into the water as quickly and as forcefully as possible. I thought that you should try to leap, you know, get distance. You have to go distance.

It's not distance?

It's more about, I mean, you want a good amount of distance, but you want to get into the water as quickly as possible and you want to go under the water.

So you sort of want to hover over the water. Not go like this.

You don't want to do a rainbow. You want to do sort of a straight shot.

Okay.

Maybe with a little arc, but a straight shot.

Go on.

And the key is that you're supposed to go under the water and get to the water that hasn't been— that's not turbulent. The still water, like a few feet under so that you can dolphin kick and emerge. Because you have other swimmers in different lanes that are also diving in and then the water becomes choppy. And when the water is choppy, you don't swim as fast. So when you dive, you're supposed to get under the water where it's relatively calm, and then that way when you're kicking, you go faster. Does that make any sense?

Totally, but you're kicking—

So I wasn't—

Are you kicking underwater?

Yeah, you're doing dolphin kicks.

So is it ideal to be underwater as long as possible? It's not necessarily ideal. 'Cause then you don't have the turbulent— Well, why not the longest possible?

Because when you use your arms, it's just way more power. When you're under the water, you're only using your legs. You have to be in streamline with your arms. So my dive, The dive was not terrible. You could recover from a bad dive, but it was, it was important. What's way more important is the flip turn, right?

I understand that. So I always wonder whether it's track or it's, uh, or it's swimming, but the time between— is it a shot?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Take your marks.

Right. So Do you train to do it exactly when you hear it, or is that instinctive?

So I'll tell you a story. The answer is that my coach would say, when you hear the announcer go, take your marks, the next sound you hear, go, because you want to get in the water immediately.

Well, you don't have to wait for the sound to end, just hearing the beginning of the sound.

Just go.

So, oh, that's interesting.

CIF, which is the big state meet, every year that you qualify for. I was in the final heat in high school, which is, you know, the fastest heat for the both the 50 and the 100-yard freestyle. So everyone for the final heats at these events, I mean, there's a huge crowd of parents and supporters and it gets really rowdy and people are yelling names. And so when you're standing up on the block, I remember, oh God, I was so nervous. I had just that morning taken my AP World History AP exam. and then I drove to Riverside and did this meet. I'm standing up on the block, I'm super nervous. They go, take your marks. And someone yelled out, you know, a swimmer's name. Oh, and you're supposed to have silence.

Oh God.

You're supposed to have complete silence.

So did anybody jump?

And so 2 or 3 girls just dove in.

And what happens then?

I mean, it's mortifying.

So what happens though?

Do some meets you're disqualified if you do that?

Yes.

But this meet you weren't. So then they just had to get back out of the water and do it again.

Did the yeller know that it was wrong, or they just—

what they said was, yeah, I mean, the yeller I think did know that it was wrong. What the, what the announcer does is they go, take your marks, and then you're supposed to hear beep. But what actually happens is they go, stand, if there's a sound, meaning, I understand, right? But I remember being up there, I was already so nervous, and I'm clenching, ready to dive in, and I'm expecting to hear the beep, and I hear stand, and it was like Oh my God, my body.

I have another question. Are you— when you're racing, are you— how aware are you of other racers?

You're aware of them at the flip turn. You're supposed to keep your eyes dead at the bottom of the pool.

And why are you aware of them at the flip?

Because your head is, is to the side when you flip, so you can see the people in the other lanes. And in the 50 and the 100-yard freestyle, I wasn't really aware because it's so damn close. I mean, swimming gets you down to the millisecond.

Yes, exactly.

So I— you sometimes you're aware of them when you breathe because you turn your head to breathe. So yeah, gosh, did you ever do—

did you ever do the butterfly?

I did it in practice.

It's a killer, isn't it?

It is brutal.

I don't know how they do it.

We would have— if we mess up—

men who do the butterfly, they're like late weightlifters.

They're chiseled, gigantic, but they're also super thin.

Yeah, well, there's no body fat.

There's no body fat. I, in practice, our punishment for messing up a set, i.e., that's hilarious, was to do— ready for this?

Yeah.

500 yards of butterfly.

No, you're kidding.

20 laps of butterfly was your punishment.

Did you have to do it ever?

Oh yeah. And you couldn't stop. This is what I'm talking about with the coaches. I mean, they would—

oh, that's sadism.

I mean, I got to tell you, some of the coaches I had were truly 20 laps of the butterfly.

That's not even done in racing.

Oh, and that's, that's just in a 2-hour practice. Then you have to continue practicing. And that was if you messed up.

What is the chief muscle you use in the freestyle?

I have no idea.

Oh, you don't know? No. That's interesting.

No, but I was, I, I tell you, I was jacked.

I'm sure you were.

Very toned. Yeah. As fun as the swimming discussion is, I have a point that I want to get back to about the resilience. Yes.

Yeah.

Well, it's actually a, a great way to, uh, go into it because I really do think that my time in swimming and water polo taught me huge resilience. Nowadays, you know, I reflect on a lot, a lot on why people are so weak. And I really think it's because, as we've mentioned so many times, in America, we've just gotten to as close to an on-earth utopian place as is humanly possible.

Right.

And I'm fascinated by this idea because I think the reason why we're so weak is that we don't think that we have to be strong. I mentioned this last podcast that I'm reading Paul Johnson's book about the history of America and how there was this understanding throughout American history that we were to carry on the torch of civilization. And now I think that there's this understanding, and by the way, I, I'm saying this because I actually think I had it a little bit when I was younger, that America is always going to survive.

Mm-hmm.

That we've reached, because we've reached such a high level, in so many ways, as bad as even though the leftists say that America is so bad, they really know that we have reached such a great level, especially compared to other places on Earth. But I think, again, we have this idea that, oh, the, the other generations had to go through the Civil War, World War I, World War II, the Cold War, 9/11, but we've kind of hit a steady period of our history. And now with the iPhone and all of these inventions we have, We've kind of again reached this, this part of time where we're insulated from all the other things that the world has to go through. And it's this weird false sense of permanence of our prosperity that I think is especially prevalent among people my age. So that's why we're weak, because we have the luxury of being able to be weak. We don't think we have to be strong.

There are no mountains to climb.

No, we think this is our birthright. We think it's somehow guaranteed to us by virtue of being Americans.

Right. That might explain— it does, I think— the weakness, because there's so few challenges.

Yes.

You don't even have to work in college.

No.

Anybody who went to college in my parents' generation worked. It was a given. But it doesn't explain— and you're not aiming to explain it— the leftism, the wokeness. That is from boredom.

Yes, that is from boredom and too much prosperity, I think.

Right. Because with prosperity comes secularism equals boredom equals leftism.

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They didn't go for clarity.

No, they did not. And Nietzsche, who we just mentioned, boy, is he— he was the one that was the most difficult to read. Machiavelli was the easiest.

Vacation when you read me.

Oh, let me tell you, it really is. It's funny, I was thinking earlier in this episode, it's so— it's fascinating to me that your physical life is so chaotic, like your desk and these newspapers over here is such chaos, but your mind is so clear and your writing is so clear. Anyway, it's an interesting paradox. But with Rousseau—

wait, there was a line about that with Einstein who had a messy desk, and at least it might be apocryphal. I don't— I'm terrible at memorizing anything, let alone funny lines, but it went something like—

this is why we have Sean.

Uh, yes it is, but I don't know if he knows this one. It's something to the effect where Somebody said, oh, you know, Einstein, you have such a messy desk and such a clear mind. Something just like what you just said to me. And then he said about somebody else, well, they have a very clear desk.

Who has a very clear desk?

No, no, he was saying about a guy who he didn't like.

Oh.

He has a really clear desk.

Well, I was just thinking as you were saying it, a lot of my peers who are left-wing are exceptionally clean and tidy.

That's fascinating.

So, wow.

Yeah. Anyway, it's just a cute line.

So with Rousseau, one of the things that I observed, he of course was the person who said that people are born perfect in the state of nature and then they become corrupted by civilization. And some of his assessments, I think, of how people become corrupted are apt. For instance, he talks about the way that we become conventional creatures and we care too much about— I think he calls us herd animals, how we care too much about what other people think. Some of the things he says are actually pretty good descriptions, but overall he's saying that civilization has not been good for us. I mean, that's ridiculous. And I thought to myself as I was reading him, you know, he actually is an embodiment of what he is talking about. He is the living embodiment of how civilization can corrupt you by becoming to a place that is so good that it gives you enough leisure time to come up with crackpot ideas like the ones that he wrote down. So that's just really—

it's a very affluent society.

Absolutely.

That can have departments of gender studies with people making $80,000, $100,000, $150,000.

And the irony is that these people all day, every day, incessantly talk about privilege. Are you kidding me? They are the living embodiments of privilege. So to go back to what we were originally saying, I have to tell you, I am terrified for the future. I am very worried about America. I don't know if we keep going down the road that we're on, I don't think there is going to be the United States of America in a few, in a few decades.

So what, what there will be— I never make predictions, but I want to react to what you're saying. So there is a— there will be a solution And that is truly dividing the country where conservative places that believe in liberty, free speech, God, raising children with obligations, not just rights. I mean, I could give a whole 50 examples. They will just have their own place, and maybe it'll be 100 different countries. It may— maybe it will have to because it's not contiguous. Because every big city has lousy values, and yet they're not contiguous.

Why is that?

Okay, so I have a theory on that.

Shocking.

Yes, exactly. We were talking about why I have theories. I have a theory why I have theories.

You have a theory on the design of cutting knives and forks and cloud configuration.

Yes, so the theory I have What was the question now?

Why do— why are cities the places where bad values occur?

So I have a historical and I have a contemporary. So both historically and contemporary, cities enable you to be anonymous. It's a very bad thing.

True.

People love New York. Precisely because they don't know anyone and nobody knows them. And so you can do whatever you want. That's where they— so they think, not on a deep level, but you can. You're not anonymous if you live in an Oklahoma town. I give a very telling example. Every so often, I speak every week, literally, and so I stay at a hotel almost every week.

And every week, seriously?

Yes, yes, correct.

It's remarkable how much you travel.

And when I am at a hotel that's having a convention, you know, some company, some industry, some sport, they wear a a thing, "Hi, I'm," and their name. People act a lot better when they wear a badge with their name. It's very important for people to know anonymity doesn't breed kindness.

That's an excellent point.

Okay, so that's why most New Yorkers I don't care for. I didn't care for them. It's one of the reasons I left. Obviously there are wonderful people in New York, but in general The rudeness that is generally associated, the coldness, is because of the anonymity. It's also, by the way, which I'm not happy to report, but truth matters, because there are so many different groups there. The— no, the one of the many lies of the left is diversity is our strength. If diversity were our strength, why would Finland, Norway, and Sweden And Denmark always be voted the happiest countries, right?

Well, you wrote in one of your books, it's diversity is not our strength. The way that we historically have been able to deal with our diversity, from anyone, melting pot, which the left hates, the concept of a melting pot.

So that's one reason big cities are awful. It doesn't breed kind people. It also breeds terrible ideas, partially because they don't deal with reality, a lot of— because they're not interacting on a deep level like you might have in a rural area where you know your neighbors. They come up with ideas like Marx. He spent his whole life in the London Library, came out, came up with one of some of the worst ideas in human history. And it was in large measure because he didn't live reality. Cities allow you to live in a make-believe world more than rural areas do. Then finally, and this is in my Genesis commentary, so fewer and fewer people know Bible stories, but some people watching or listening know the story of the Tower of Babel. So this happens in the beginning of Genesis. People decide, we're going to build a building who— the top of which hits the heavens, which is typical of humans. I want to make the biggest building. And they make it, and God doesn't like what they're trying to do. There's too much hubris. But very few people know this. Happily, I pointed out it's not original to me. I learned it. Every time the Tower of Babel is mentioned Every— it says, and the city attached to it.

Oh wow, wow, wow, wow.

The Torah is very ambivalent about cities.

Wow. And the Torah also— this is kind of a separate point I learned from you— is a bit ambivalent about first children.

They prefer second children because it, it doesn't believe—

Cain and Abel is an example.

Well, they're all examples, right? Jacob and Esau, Cain and Abel. Moses and Aaron. It's endless. There's no example where the older one outshines the younger one. And it is, it is the Torah's way of saying stop this notion that the first is always better. Yeah, it's, it's just like, don't think blood is that important. The mother of Moses is Pharaoh's daughter.

And polygamy, that's such a great point. The thing that I love about the Torah and what you alerted me to is that it, without overtly in-your-face saying it, they dispel notions that were held in pagan or ancient societies, like that polygamy is a good thing, this notion of elevating the first.

Nature is God.

And the reason why it's so great and why it requires someone like you, who's obviously extremely well-read and knows the Torah in and out, to explain it, is that, again, as I just said, it's not overt, it's not thrown in your face. It's taught through lessons and through stories, and that's a much better way to to remember things. Your point of anonymity made me think about, I think that is, I really gotta think about that more. That is a really excellent point. And I think one of the reasons probably why we have gotten to such a bad place in society is that people are increasingly anonymous. Because look at what we were just talking about a few minutes ago with how much I enjoy our Shabbat dinners. I am not anonymous at those tables. Everyone there knows me, they know about my life, and there are, it just creates another community that I, as an individual, am a part of and that I'm valued in. That's one of the benefits of religion. When you go to your church, you can't really hide. People know who you are. They know about your family. They, you know, and it gives you this— when you are known, it does impel you to behave better because more people are obviously going to find out if you don't behave well. So anyway, that's just a quick point that I wanted to make. One of the other points I want to say is that what scares me the most about our situation now and why I really think we're heading down a bad path if we continue is, and this actually relates to the point that I was saying about why I am more annoyed with liberals than with leftists, is It's not so much the crazy ideas that have taken hold, but it is everyday people who know that these are crazy ideas and lack courage at all to stand up against them. And I saw this all the time in college. Actually, most people around me knew that things like defunding the police or the COVID diktats, etc., were bad things, right? But they were just silent.

Sex is not binary.

And I don't understand why that is. Why do— can they not just muster up one tiny drop? It really doesn't require that much courage to say that— look at what I talked about last week, the Boston Children's Hospital allowing these hysterectomies for 18-year-olds.

Advertising it.

Why? It really doesn't require that much courage. We're not talking about, you know, the Puritans sailing across the Atlantic in the high seas and coming to America and having to build a society. It's really not that hard.

Why don't we play It's 48 seconds. Sean, play the Boston Children's Hospital ad. This is a female doctor, I believe. God, did you see this?

I didn't. I read about it though. I haven't heard it.

Alan said when we played it, this is the attractive face of the devil. I mean, Alan never, you know, engages in hyperbole.

Not at all.

This is, this is how scary— by the way, you know, it's affiliated with Harvard.

Oh Jesus, don't tell me that.

Well, it's not surprising.

Oh no, it's not. Unfortunately.

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I have something to say.

So for those watching, you'll see it. Those listening, you'll hear it.

A child will often know that they are transgender from the moment that they have any ability to express themselves, and parents will often tell us this. We have parents who tell us that their kids, they knew from the minute they were born practically, and actions like refusing to get a haircut or standing to urinate, trying to stand to urinate, refusing to stand to urinate, trying on siblings' clothing, playing with the quote opposite gender toys, things like that. There is more and more a group of adolescents that we are seeing that really are coming to the realization that they might be trans or gender diverse a little bit later on in their life, so what we're seeing from them is that they always sort of knew something was maybe off and didn't didn't have the understanding to know that they might be trans or have a different gender identity than the one they had been assigned. So that is a growing population that they are— that we are seeing, and that's being recognized as being trans and able to be treated.

Boston Children's. Now, so by the way, how, how many kids have refused the haircut? 100%.

That is just a blip. You saw me shaking my head. That is so wrong. This idea that, you know, the second that you're born— all of this is socially cultivated. I have seen it myself at my high school and just living in Los Angeles.

By the way, your high school was an all-girls high school. They are accepting trans, correct?

Yep. They got rid of all from the description, all girls, because that's not all girls anymore.

Well, that's odd. Wait, wait, wait, they think a trans is a girl. A trans girl is a girl. Why would they drop all—

well, because there are girls that are becoming boys and they're allowed to stay. Yes, they are allowed to stay. No, it's—

then it's not a girl— oh, so it's not a girls' school anymore?

I can't tell you how screwed up it is. But see, this— why, why can't people muster up any courage to say that this is wrong? I'll tell you an example of a way of thinking that has taken hold among liberals, and I notice this constantly, constantly at Harvard. I talked to one of my friends about hookup culture, which we have talked a lot about on this program, and I was saying, you know, I think that a lot of this comes from feminism, the idea that men and women are the same, that we as women want casual, meaningless sex as much as men do. And so anyway, I was just— I don't need to repeat it for the listeners and for you. We all know, we all know this this idea. I was telling it to my friend though, and she said to me, you know, Julie, I agree with you, but I'm hesitant to criticize feminism because the same people historically who have criticized feminism also think that women shouldn't have rights. I'll give you another example.

Wait, wait, wait.

So that's an example of the why people cannot muster up any courage to stand up against something.

It's a brainwash.

Yes.

And they succumb to this idea that we have.

Do you think if you're not left, you're you're a fascist.

Exactly. If you criticize the party line in any way, you're against the party. It's not that you're just criticizing one part of it. They succumb to this binary way of thinking, and that's what diminishes their courage. Another example is many of my friends agreed with me that the— I mean, it was as clear as day how stupid the COVID restrictions were at Harvard. You wear a mask getting your food, you sit down in the dining hall, you can take it off. You wear a mask on the treadmill when 'You lift weights, you can take it.' I mean, it was just beyond, beyond idiotic. But when I would talk about it with my peers, they would say, 'You know, I agree with you that maybe some of these things are stupid, but I'm hesitant to come out fully against it or to criticize masking specifically, because the same people who criticize masks are the same people who think that COVID is a hoax,' which, by the way, isn't true. And also, why can't we just get it right?

No, that's right. That is so important what you just said. That shows how effective the brainwash has been. You don't want to say the truth because people who say that truth also say— and then they fill in some lie, by the way.

Exactly. And people focus excessively on implication. If you take one view, you are assumed to have a whole host of other views.

It's correct.

Yeah, it's really bad. But again, that's what I— that's the left's really, by the way, to suppress courage.

I hated masks from the beginning because it's nonsense that they were effective outside. By the way, the medical profession said that it's more important to for health to demonstrate against racism. Yeah, in the height of the epidemic, theoretically. But the thing that people who are pro-mask are oblivious to is what we just talked about a few minutes ago. It creates a world of anonymity. That's bad. Somebody in a store told me at the time— oh yeah, no, no, not a store, a waitress. She said people with the masks on, they don't treat me as nicely because they have no skin in the game. Literally, there's no skin in the game.

I think that's why people like protesting, people my age especially, because they feel anonymous and it allows their—

oh, to be part of the herd is so empowering.

There are people who I know go to protests and they, they love the sense of anarchy. They love walking with people and no one knows who they are and they can pull out a joint, they can take off their clothes, they can look at all the crap that goes on at protests. It's because no one knows who you are and you can let your freak flag fly. You can essentially be a hedonist or an anarchist and do whatever the hell you want. Boy, that's it. That's a great point about anonymity.

It's— yeah, and, and that masks produce that. So I'll ask a personal question. So I totally get the, uh, what was the word we were using the whole time?

Despair.

Despair. I, I totally get that because I, I combat it effectively. I combat it, by the way, but I have to combat it. So I, I promise, and you know me, but I'm just promising for the audience, I'm not asking for a compliment. I'm asking for an insight. Has our working together helped on the despair issue?

Oh, of course.

So why?

Because I'll tell you, when I go to bed at night, before I started working with you, I would think about all of these things and it would bother me so much. And I would say to myself, I wish that I could in some way come out publicly against this or spread the word that this is bad or be an example to people of how— and obviously you don't need a microphone and a Dennis and Julie podcast to do that. You can do that in your own community just by talking with people or writing an article for your school newspaper, et cetera. But certainly to be able to have the platform that we have and to discuss these ideas with you and get emails from listeners and know that it is being disseminated en masse to people, that has made me feel way, way better. It's just taken a load off of my shoulders, feeling, feeling like I am in some way contributing to turning the tide.

That's right. But I want people to understand the point you made in the middle. You were sensitive, to your credit, to what you were saying. You don't have to have a microphone.

No, you don't. And in fact, just—

I just— it's so important. Forgive me, but writing a letter to the editor matters.

Yep.

These things make a letter to a congressman, a and, and that maybe only a staffer will read. It all matters.

And you know what, I said this at your shul the other day when Dennis interviewed me at his synagogue, which was a huge honor. Everyone there's so— God, you have such great people in your life.

I do.

Really, really excellent people. And someone asked, you know, what advice would you give to younger people? And I said, look, I realize that some people may think that this is a sensationalist statement. I hope that they're right. I hope that I am being sensationalist right now. I think that we are at a do-or-die moment in our country. We need people to stand up. And I said, I responded to this person saying, look, obviously coming from my position, you go, well, easy for you to say, Julie, you're getting paid to espouse your values. And I recognize that that is an enormous privilege, that it is my vocation, it is my job to talk about these things. But we really do need everyday people, just again in conversation or in the newspaper, just in everyday life, trying to stand up against this because it's getting so, so bad to the point of absurdity. And the secret here is, or the not so dirty secret, is that we're the majority. I'm not even necessarily I'm not necessarily talking about conservatives, people who are moderate, just people who oppose this alt-left garbage. We are in the majority. So why are we the ones who are cowering? Why are we the ones staying silent?

Well, they have levers of power.

No, they do.

Big business.

No, it's terrifying.

Everything big. If it's big, they control it.

How the hell do we get— you're right, because they are the minority, but they are at the top and they hold on. Oust them? How does the everyday person try to oust them?

Take your kids out of school.

Totally stops the greatest institutions.

Yes, exactly. Yeah, I try to buy whatever I can from a company on the internet rather than Amazon.

Yeah, I've got to start doing that. It's so hard.

It takes, takes 5 minutes longer, but it doesn't matter.

But it's— look at Uber, you know.

What, what was with Uber?

Uber's Pledged $100 million to Black Lives Matter. Dennis, every single major company in the United States has done this.

To a hate organization, to a racist, communist—

Anti-Black.

Yes.

Anti-Black organization. You know, I just want to make this point, and it almost seems so obvious that it's absurd to make. Do people realize, like, what a creepy and weird time we're living in? Again, I know it sounds so obvious, It is mainstream to have a huge hospital in America advertise cutting off children's breasts and taking out their vital organs because they think that they are not the gender that they are. We are taught people have successfully eliminated huge contingents of police departments. There's this class at Princeton that is saying that free speech is racist. Like, again, I know we talk about this every day, but can we just zoom out a little bit and just and recognize how— imagine if the Founding Fathers could be told that in 2022 this would be happening. I mean, it's, it's like out of a movie.

You didn't need the Founding Fathers. You told my father.

I know. No, it's—

I mean, my father loved this country.

This is what like kids in fairy tales, creepy dystopian fairy tales, would make up. And it's mainstream and supported by people at Harvard University and Boston's Children's Hospital. And the president of the United States is supporting having kids not be given lunch at schools in order to allow— encourage their parents to affirm their gender. Did you hear about this with Biden?

Yes, but say it.

Yeah, that was probably a convoluted way of saying it. President Biden is supporting stop to have schools stop serving lunch to kids because he thinks that that will somehow— or sorry, schools that refuse to affirm, or schools that tell parents about the kid's gender transition.

Right, as opposed to keeping it a secret from the parents.

Yes.

Sorry, I'm usually pretty eloquent. That is why. That was true.

Thanks, Dennis.

Both were true. You're batting 990. I wouldn't complain.

Um, it was because the details were fuzzy in my head.

Yes, it's a non-issue. The, the question is often posed to me when I teach the Ten Commandments Or even when I don't, people know I do. So Dennis, what do you think is the most important of the Ten Commandments? And I have had different answers at different times in my life, and now I think it's honor your father and mother. That is the antidote to totalitarianism. If your parents are your authority, the state is not. And that's why the left wants to undermine parental authority, because they want the state to be the authority.

And the proof is in history. Look at what Mao did with the camps, and it was an agenda.

All the great evil of the 20th century was done by big government— big secular government, I might add.

That is why it's incredibly important for me to read and really beef up on history. You know, I actually— I've transitioned from reading political books, you know, I— and you know I've I've read a lot this summer. I read Douglas Murray's War on the West, Molly Hemingway's Rigged, Candace Owens' book Blackout. I love reading those political books, but I actually think I am almost exclusively going to just read history now because that, especially in this day and age—

That's why I majored in it. I knew it.

I majored in it. I didn't know that you majored in history.

Yes, history and Middle East studies. I had a double major.

Oh, that's right.

Okay.

Well, on that happy note, everyone—

well, there is a happy note.

There is a happy note.

We're here next week.

We're here next week. And that there are people listening.

And right, Julie, we really loved it. Julie— by the way, she used to say hyphen.

I know. And God, there are so many listeners who write in weighing in on the controversy. There's—

whether it's— oh, they're all— oh, really?

I think that the conclusion is that dash is the way to go.

Yes, because hyphen is breaking up a word.

Yeah, it is.

And this is like similarly at the end of the sentence, right? R-L-Y, right?

No, I, I really love hearing from you listeners. It's, it's unbelievably touching. And again, I can't promise that I will respond to every one of you, but I can promise that I read all of them and I send texts to Dennis, right? I copy and paste messages that you have. And also follow us on social media. It's @DennisJuliePod on both Instagram and Twitter.

And by the way, you want to do— here's a perfect example of what to do for the country that does not necessitate having a microphone. Send our microphone to people, right? Especially the young people, because she's so young. So they'll feel, oh, this— I have a spokesman here. It works.

If there is one thing I want to do in my career, especially at these early stages, it's that I want to be that person that young people go to and go, okay, if she's doing it, I can do it.

Good girl.

Shalom everyone. I said that last podcast.

That's a riot. Shalom everybody. Twitter and Instagram, you want us to say it again?

@DennisJuliePod. That's Twitter and Instagram. Oh, can I just end with a really funny story? I'm sorry, I thought this was endearing. When we were filming the episode last week, one of the people here that work at Salem— he doesn't work for our show, unfortunately— Daniel, who by the way is probably the happiest person I've ever met in my entire life. He is never ever in a bad mood. Talk about not having despair. He came in to wish you, Dennis, a happy birthday.

And a week late.

A week late, but better late than never. It's the same month. I'm ripping— I know. And so Dennis turns to him and says, thank you, how did you know that it was my birthday? And Daniel said, I saw it on Instagram. And Dennis's response was precious. He goes, my birthday was on Instagram? It was all over. It's PragerU posted a mod. They interviewed your son David talking about you on your birthday.

And was it positive?

Oh yeah. You think he would say something? They, you think, A, he would say something bad and PragerU would post it? Yeah.

That's a good Good point. Yeah, no, no, I didn't think he said anything bad. I'm very lucky. Oh, that's what we were going to talk about. We'll have to do it next time.

I know, luck. It's good we never run out of topics. Whenever we're—

oh, we don't ever have to—

myself, oh God, I wish we had another 30 minutes.

Yes, exactly correct. We will never run out of them, I promise.

See you next week.

You got time, you're on the man base, and everybody wants the same. Everybody wants the same.

Your beloved dog and a stranger are both drowning. You can only save one. Who do you save? Every time Dennis Prager asks that question, his audience splits 3 ways. 1/3 chooses the dog, 1/3 chooses the stranger, and 1/3 aren't sure. Why? Because we live in an age where increasingly feelings define right and wrong. But if morality is based on emotion, then murder, rape, and theft are just opinions. And if people feel justified, why is rioting or destruction wrong at all? In his new book, If There Is No God, Dennis Prager explains why why civilizations cannot survive without objective morality, and why Judeo-Christian values shape the moral foundations of the free world.

If you claim that certain things are good, certain things are evil, independent of how you feel about it, you are in effect affirming God.

If There Is No God by Dennis Prager, available now at PragerStore.com. That's PragerStore.com.