Do You Fear Death?

Your dog and a stranger are drowning. You can only save one. Who do you choose? Dennis Prager says your answer reveals everything about how you define right and wrong. In his new book, If There Is No God, Prager exposes the danger of emotion-based morality and why without objective truth, society descends into chaos. This isn't a religious book. It's a rational case for moral clarity in a confused age. If There Is No God from Dennis Prager. Order now at PragerStore.com.

Hello everybody, Dennis Prager and Julie Hartman. Dennis and Julie. What is this, around episode— give me a break, give me an idea. What, 136? Oh, how—

this is—

that— this is the beauty of doing something regularly. You get so much done, folks. You have no idea how feisty Julie has been today. I—

silly.

Do people have an idea of what a character you are?

I don't know. I don't think that they know the full extent of it.

Yeah. Well, I will admit in the beginning I didn't either.

Yeah, no, I— people who know me off the air, they, they know I'm a total character, right? I actually growing up had some problems in class. I was kind of the class clown.

Oh, interesting.

Not, not in a mean way.

No, no, I know. I didn't take it as meaning a mean way. That, you know, it's very interesting. Oh God, it's amazing how this always happens. I had such another idea in mind, but I will talk about— have we talked about characters?

I think so. Can you learn to be a character?

Oh, we did? Okay. So the only thing I want to say about it is, yeah, number one, you cannot become a character. Maybe you could become another sex, but you can't become— which I don't believe— but you can't become a character. Number two, this was a recent revelation in my life. There are at least as many females who are characters as males.

Oh yeah.

I really thought it was a man sort of thing to be a character, and it's not true. I think it's— it may be even 55-45 female. Do you know any other characters in your life?

My mom is a huge character.

Oh really?

Oh yeah, she's a hoot. She's hilarious. My mom's a character. My sister is a character.

Is that right?

Yeah. Yeah. Big character.

Because my brother's not a character.

That doesn't surprise me.

Why?

Because he's a doctor.

Oh, no, no, that's it. No, no, you are right. That is a good insight.

Yeah, I don't— I think psychiatrists can be characters, but I don't think your doctor or your—

That's interesting.

Your brother is a— is what kind of doctor?

He's a pulmonologist.

So I don't think he's a character.

No, he's not. I don't know who goes into medicine today, but traditionally they were pretty straight-laced guys. Originally it was guys, now women. You don't, you don't think of them as characters. That's right.

You know, I can tell a character within 5 seconds of meeting them.

No.

Yeah.

Well, wait a minute. Did you know I was?

Yeah. Course. Well, I knew, but that's not fair because I was listening to him. But Sean, within 5 seconds of meeting him, I knew.

You knew what?

That he was a character. Sean, look at him.

Sean is a character.

I feel like you can tell. Do you think that you can get a read of a person by just looking at them?

No.

I think I can.

Maybe you can. I, I really—

Sean looks like a character.

No, no, Sean. I won't say what Sean looks like. But in any event—

You guys are so funny. It's really funny.

By the way, that isn't it. That's another interesting question. I know that looks are utterly deceiving. I'll give you an example. I mean, this is a super serious example, but it's not a bad one. When I read about someone who did a horrific thing, a mass murderer or someone who abused a child, and I see a picture of the person in the paper or on the internet, and it's so human. We want to see— God, can I see evil? But you can't.

You know, when that was really hammered home to me was when I became obsessed with Adolf Eichmann, and I watched the trial, right? And I'm looking at it.

I know, for all you know, He could pass me on the street. No, not only that. No. If somebody would have said, you know, this is the guy who rescued you.

Yes. Oh, no, it's true. You know, I amend that. I don't know if you can look at someone and immediately get a sense of them. I think within the first 5 to 10 seconds of my conversing with an individual, I think I can get a good read of them.

That's not the same as knowing if they're a character. You said you would know if they're a character.

I think I could. Yes, I think you could. There's a There's a—

that I don't know.

Dennis Prager.

Yeah. Anyway, she, she began the day. Let me put it to you this way, in a, in a quite hyper moment, which is fine. I get a kick out of it.

You got to make life fun.

No, totally.

What am I supposed to do, trudge in here, put down my bag?

No, no. I, you know, I'm now doing, I would say, 5 podcasts a week.

Wow.

Yes, it is a wow. And it's because the next volume of my Rational Bible is coming out, which is a big deal because these are monumental tasks at work. And so they always be— it's, oh, Dennis Prager, how are you? I mean, which is the American way of saying hello. Yes, I have no issue with it. But I have, as you may have heard— I don't know if you've heard because you don't ask me, how are you?

I don't know.

It's—

I think I do it genuinely. Not—

yeah, yeah, that's true. You do a genuine how are you. That's right. So my standard answer for about 5 years has been better than my country.

Which Brandon adopts.

Oh, yes, exactly.

Dennis's stepson who has autism.

Right. Yeah. Oh, that's very funny. Yeah, you're right. So the guy— I had two guys interviewing me yesterday on a Christian podcast, and they said, oh, Dennis Prager, how are you? And I go, well, my standard answer is better than my country. And they go, Wow, what a great answer. They were so thinking of— I thought they would just go, that's cute.

Well, that's a character-esque answer because you're never going to answer in a unique way.

Now, so it's very interesting that we're both characters because normally the bonds in life are formed between characters and non-characters.

Romantically, I think that's true.

Certainly romantically, but even in friendship. Look, Alan Estrin.

Okay. All right.

That you're okay. That ends the subject. Oh, hey, has Julie ever— will you play for Julie what Adam— how Adam Carolla described Alan Estrin on the show?

Oh my gosh.

You will love it. You will truly.

I have never met someone who is as anti of a character as Alan Estrin in my life.

That's right.

And it's actually fascinating. You know, I adore Alan.

We revere him.

Yes, I was going to use that word actually. It actually—

your friendship fascinates me because our personalities are so different. You guys, they're opposite, right?

You're like brothers.

We are. Well, well, as you say, brothers are not that close, right? Alan, his producer, the guy runs the whole thing, who's, uh, somewhere between my mom and an Easter Island head in terms of gregariousness and encouragement.

It's true.

That was precious.

But I do— I mean, I deeply respect Alan.

No, Alan is such a—

of course, totally.

Alan. Alan is unique.

You know what I would do sometimes during swim practice? This was so much fun because we're all, you know, you know my feelings. I think the audience by now knows about swimming and how monotonous it was and cold. So bleeping cold. That's why.

Is that to make you swim faster?

Probably just to torture us, honestly. No, it was to make us—

it does serve a purpose.

Yes. And there are a lot of people the pool, you actually need to keep it cool in order for it not to get hot anyway. Um, I would— because it's so monotonous, you're just looking at the bottom of the pool, you can't talk to anyone. And what I would do is I would go way under the water and I would dolphin kick a few lanes over, and I'd look up and I'd wave at people and I'd give peace signs, or I'd do somersaults, right? And then I would dolphin back over to my lane and keep swimming. And people loved it. It was so fun to see the look because everyone's just in there.

You have no idea how I identify.

Oh, I do this kind of stuff all the time. All the time. I, I was just on a plane the other day. I did something weird. We were waiting in line and I think I, I don't— I forget what I did. I love chatting up the flight attendants though. Oh, you know what they showed me? I'm sure you've seen this. On planes, you know, there are a lot of latches everywhere and you're like, oh, they're probably storing food or something. One of the latches opens and a ladder comes down and it's a whole sleeping bunk area for the cabin, for the, or for the crew. Did you know this?

No, I did not know.

Oh, I'm shocked with all your travel.

You know, it must have been a big plane, right?

Yes, it was a big plane. They have, they have a whole upper level.

Yeah. And that would be done on long international flights. I said I did not know about it. Yeah, I'm sure. Well, I hope you said it to a female attendant.

So yes, I did not. I was actually a gay male attendant. Trust me, there were no gays.

Okay, fine. Yeah. What? One minute. He has a subject for us guys, and it's based off my friendship with Alan.

Yeah, yeah, this is good.

Is You are accountable to him and therefore more productive. So he says one of the great aspects of my friendship with Alan is I am accountable to him and therefore more productive. So in what sense would you say that I am accountable to him? You know your nature. Yes, my nature is to play. My name and his nature is to work. That's correct. You know, I would say that that's accurate.

I mean, your nature is to play, but you sometimes will say that you're lazy or that you need discipline. I can't say I've ever seen that with you. When the show is done, you have fun, but, but you're always working. I don't, I don't quite get that. No comment that you often make.

I assure you that Alan spends a greater percentage of his awake hours working than I do.

Well, that's true. Okay.

So. All right. So that's just an example. And Alan takes cold showers and Alan jogs miles each day at 4:30 in the morning. Yes. And goes to bed at 9:34.

It's 9:34.

Yeah.

Why 34?

It used to be 33. I think he goes to bed a little later now.

I know him well enough to know that it's a liter— it's actually.

Yes, I don't— I. I don't call him after 9:33 unless it's an emergency.

And can he just sleep? Can he just put his head down and sleep?

Yeah. Well, most, most men can.

Yes.

It's one of the built-in— Yes, I— we, we, we deserve it.

So, you know, something about you, and this is— this is not quite the character subject, but I hope you don't take this the wrong way. It's truly not meant in a disparaging way, but you are very forgetful. You're very forgetful of people's names. You're forgetful of—

Right. But by the way, I just want to wait. Let me do it one by one. The names issue has always been in my life. Always. And I want you to know it is, though there's no doubt in my mind it's genetic. My brother, who, you know, has at Harvard Medical School, he The amount at any medical school, the amount of things you have to memorize as a doctor, the names of bones and nerves and God knows what. But he, he, as he is at least as bad as I am with human names.

Hmm.

So it is. Well, I'll tell you, I remember, and this is not a praise of me, it's actually somewhat of a derogatory statement. I figured out, except the names issue, because I really want to remember people's names but I can't. But partially it's because there were so many people in my life. I mean, that's an issue too. But I have come to a tentative conclusion. It's tentative. And that is that I remember what I want to remember.

I was going to say you're forgetful with a lot of things, but when it comes to things that really matter, especially ideas, you— you see, it's actually the exact opposite. You can hear it once and commit it to memory. I mean, there are things that I bring up on this show and we'll be talking on the phone and you go, well, that's your insight about truth, or that's your insight about this.

Yeah.

But then when it comes to scheduling dinner or, you know, it's out the window.

I think that that's a gift from either God or nature. My mind is so filled with ideas and thoughts that it's sort of like my— you got to make room somehow for all those thoughts. And so I empty it out of the nonessential.

Well, I'm going to tell everyone— the audience will love this— a typical Dennis story. You'll know it once I start telling it. No, it's, it's great. Not to sound maudlin, but I'm going to tell it at your funeral, which I hope is in many, many, many years from now. But we were at Shabbat dinner one night. This was before October 7th, and we were talking about Israel. And I had a question about the West Bank settlements. And I turn over to Dennis, who is wiping something off of his tie, as he often does, spilling something. And I turn over or I look over and I say, Dennis, when you were interviewing Prime Minister Netanyahu earlier this week, did you ask him about, you know, whatever it was that we were talking about? And it's so you, you look up and you go, I interviewed Netanyahu. Like, totally serious, everyone.

Sean, Sean, do you remember my interview? Yes, of course. Don't answer for him. Yes. Tell the truth. Yes. This was like a year ago.

No. Oh, I can pull it up.

You exaggerated on one thing on the story. It wasn't that week.

Yes, it was. No, no, I really— I think it was. And then Sue turns to you and goes, yes, you interviewed him. Did it? Whenever it was. Let's say it was that month. It was very recent. And no, but this is a credit to you. You know how many people would walk around? By the way, maybe even include if I interviewed Netanyahu, probably, or any, any leader, I'd probably talk about it with people. You know how many people would walk around and go, I interviewed Netanyahu the other day. I interviewed you. And then you don't even remember. But it's a, it's a great credit to you. And I know that you say that it's a gift from God or nature. I think it's something that you have made in yourself. You've like created this filter where if it's an idea about the world or Judeo-Christian values, it's— it has a permanent fixture in you. It's etched. And if it's something that is outside of that, it's out the window. And it actually— it fascinates me because I can't say in my life I've ever met anyone like that. And I used to think it was a little bit of an act.

On my part?

Yes. Oh, because you are so oblivious.

I know you can't.

This is my early days of meeting you, right? You are so oblivious to anything status-oriented.

That's right. You are like, you know, that is a credit to you that I love that phrase. That's correct.

I don't care.

That's right. I don't care.

Well, I'll give you some more examples. This, this, because I had this image of you, and then when I met you, it was so cool to see the, the ways that you were different. Dennis is a very successful radio host. You go to a burger, a $10 burger joint for most of your meals. You go to Subway. Like, I was so— I thought that you would drive a Mercedes and you'd go to the fanciest places. You are the most everyday kind of guy. I'll give you another example. I remember this early on. We were talking about the PragerU gala, which every single year is held at this— now I'm forgetting the name of the hotel. But this very swanky hotel in Beverly Hills, the Four Seasons. Yeah, yeah, the Four Seasons or something. And I remember you're like, where? Somebody was asking you about it and you're like, I don't, I don't know where it's held. Ask Alan or ask Marissa. It's somewhere in the greater Los Angeles area. And I'm like, you can't identify that it's at the swankiest hotel in Beverly Hills. It was just, it was very cool to see.

Yeah. So it's an interesting question. Is it built in or did I work on it? And I think it's both. I do think it's both. I have worked on it. But look, I know what's important. That's the point. What, you know, you just said, you said you'll say it at my funeral, which by the way, I don't find, I know what you meant. The story has so moved you that If it should come to eulogizing me, you'll tell that story.

Well, I think it says so much about you.

No, no, I agree with you. I do agree. By the way, it's so interesting. Oh God, 'cause this is a great subject too. I'll bet that it jolted a lot of people watching or listening.

To hear that I said that?

When you said, I'll say it at your funeral. And I have no issue with it because I will have a funeral one day. I don't live in denial of any realities.

So why would that jolt?

Oh, people would think it's— well, you even said it sounds maudlin, you know. For— okay, so let me make the, the record clear. Rationally speaking, I think I have quite a many years left. My parents lived into my mother, 89, my dad, 96, and they were essentially healthy till the very end. I take care of myself. I have nothing going on, nothing, zero, which is amazing. Yes, now I could get an aneurysm tomorrow, but you can get an aneurysm tomorrow at your age. I found that phrase, it's not insulting, not worrisome, but you'll find this interesting. You were not able to come to my High Holy Day services this year. So I give 4 huge sermons, the biggest talks of my year, I reserve for Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur. And one of them was on death. The entire talk was on death. Yeah, I'll get it to you.

I'd love to listen to it.

Yeah, you would. And one of my takes on it was I don't understand fear of death. I understand sadness about that. I'm very sad about dying, leaving all the people I love and leaving them. I'm not going to feign— If you're still waiting to buy gold, sitting on the sidelines might cost you precious gains. This is Dennis Prager for AmFed Coin and Bullion. That's my choice for precious metals. The current economic climate could make buying gold a very desirable safe haven commodity. The government's overprinting of money, the fluctuation of interest rates, and high inflation can all impact the value of gold, and it's why you should seriously consider buying now. I've been working with AmFed Coin and Bullion's owner Nick Grovich for years. I'm glad that I jumped into the precious metals market when I did, but it's never too late. Nick's been in the industry for over 42 years, and he's proud of providing transparency and fair pricing to build long-term relationships. Nick and his team have my back, and they will have yours. They recommend what's in my best interest, not theirs, and I never worry about hidden commissions or huge markups. If you're interested in buying or selling, call AmFed Coin and Bullion for a free coin performance review 800-221-7694. AmericanFederal.com. AmericanFederal.com. That I, I don't play a role, a significant role in various people's lives. I know that. I, I, we, most people do. So it's this— I, when I think of dying, sadness is the 100% reaction emotionally. Not fear. I don't understand what there is to fear. Yeah, here's an interesting way of looking at it. By the way, do you fear death?

I fear the deaths of the people close to me.

Okay, that's the same thing. That's sadness.

So yes, I do fear it.

You do fear it? Yeah. Your own?

A little, but more so my parents. I'm terrified at the thought of my parents dying.

That's so interesting.

It used to— I used to be obsessed with it.

Huh. Well, it's a— it's actually a sweet thing. I hope they hear it.

But now I have a— now I actually have a remedy to it, which I'll tell you. But I first want to ask, what were the two things?

Okay, well, I— so I, you know, I'm really, really, really rational. I'm a very rare combination of really rational and emotional, but I— my emotions don't dominate my thinking. But I am an emotional guy. I love people. I love, I love life. I hate evil. I have a lot of strong emotions. Oh God. Oh, I have something to say about that, but I don't want to get caught up.

It's okay. I can, I can keep— I used to have a pen and paper.

All right. All right. Well, so we'll return to what I said about fearing death. I do want to tell you this. I don't know how— look, we never know how we get to any topic. But I see— this is, by the way, what I tell people is different about Dennis and Julie than Dennis Prager doing his own show, which I've done for 40 years.

Bring things out of you.

Yes, of course. And it's inevitable. Of course, I don't interview myself, right? I don't have a dialogue with Dennis, so I I am so emotional that I had to figure out how not to have it overwhelm me. Wow. Yeah, I know it is a wow because I'm so rational. And I'll— so I'll give you an example. I watched The Diary of Anne Frank when I was 17 on television. And it choked me up beyond words. And I said, how am I going to deal with this? I'm overwhelmed with sadness about the Holocaust. And not just the Holocaust, evil and unjust suffering generally. And so what I decided at already in high school, I made most of my big decisions in high school. Interestingly, I decided that what I would do is channel my emotions into action, and that way I feel I'm doing something about what I feel so strongly about. Does this all make sense?

Absolutely.

And so it was a very conscious decision to substitute reason for passion. The passions are still there, but I have channeled them— it's the best term, I guess— into fighting and into reason. So I just wanted to say that, that, that's— I really, I did fear to a certain extent, I did fear that my emotions would get the better of me. My— and I'll tell you what emotions— sadness over human suffering. That's, that's the emotion.

You know, I had a similar experience when I was in high school. I watched with my parents this movie, I think it's called— we have our Googler over here— Philadelphia. It's with Tom Hanks.

Philadelphia. Yes.

Oh my gosh. And then he, he dies of AIDS and he's, he's young in the movie. And the final— I'm actually tearing up thinking about it— the final 5 minutes of the movie, it's after his funeral, is a montage of all these little baby pictures of him and then this sad music playing, and it's just like this horrible thing that he, he died so young, and you're looking at the baby photos. I remember watching that and crying so much and feeling so overwhelmed with sadness. I didn't even think it would be possible to move on with my own life, as weird as that sounds. Like, when something is just so crushingly sad, you're like— you said it a few minutes ago— how can I get over this? And You know, you actually brought this up. I thought it was such a great insight. You said it's actually a great, uh, protection mechanism that we as human beings can't have total empathy for others, right? We have to switch it off somehow. But when it— as it relates to death, I want to tell you this because I, I've come to see death a little differently, and it's because of my faith in God. When I was in Europe this summer, I was in Ireland for a little bit and I met this beautiful girl, 23 years old, named Eleanor. She's a dressmaker. She's just stunning, so dignified and beautiful. And she told me that her mother died 2 weeks before I met her of cancer. And she handed me a little prayer card, which is very common in Ireland to have a little prayer card of her mother. And she had these tears sitting on the edge of her eyes. Eyes, her beautiful blue eyes, and they were— I was just so captivated by her because she never let them fall down, but you could just see her heart was broken. And I said to her, Eleanor, how are you functioning right now? How are you leaving your house? How are you out in the world after your mother died? And she said, my faith. And I said, what do you mean by that? And she told me that a priest came into the hospital with her mother shortly before her mother passed. And the priest sat down with her mother and said, I know that this is terrifying and deeply sad for you, that you're going to leave your family and you want to watch your kids grow up and continue living your life. But this priest said to her, the human lifespan is so short. Think about the span of eternity. Think about all of the thousands of years that human beings have been on this earth. And then we each individually come for 50 to 70 years, let's hope, 50 to 100 years. And this priest said, that is a blip on the radar screen of time. That is a— our earthly minds can't conceptualize it, but it is a tiny, tiny bit of time in the span of eternity. And this priest said to her, it will be faster than the speed of light in the span of time. Until you're reunited with your family again.

I believe that.

I really believe that too. And it was this girl telling this to me, and I could see that she really believed it. And it was what allowed her mother to have peace in her death. It's allowed— it was what allowed her to have peace through her mother's death. And that permanently changed the way that I view it. Is that, is that how you view it?

Oh, totally. I said the— my sanity preserver is the afterlife.

Well, you know, I—

not just for my— for my reconnection with loved ones, that God judges the bad and rewards the good. That's my sanity. That's what I meant by my sanity keeper, not just my resurrection or whatever it will be.

You know, I have to tell you, I was interviewing the other day Spencer Klavan, who's become a dear friend of mine, and he published this book about how science corroborates faith in God. It doesn't confound it. People think that science replaces—

Yeah, their intention. Yeah.

Yes. And I was just reflecting on my journey throughout my life, and I can't understand how people function without a belief in God. I was 5 years ago that person.

Well, they're not functioning well. How do you function without it? Well, they're not. That's the chaos. The chaos is all secular.

I mean, can you imagine?

Only secular people say men give birth. That is my motto.

How confused and also how insignificant you must feel. I mean, how do you understand the death of your parents?

Maybe that's the reason that vast numbers of Americans yearn to be famous. Hmm. You know, I think far more want to be famous today than 100 years ago. Kids want to be famous.

You mean so that it will have a—

No, because there's no meaning. There's no, no, there's no meaning that's beyond this life. So I have to make this life everything.

I also think I'm very interested by the amount that my generation takes photos. We've talked about social media on Dennis and Julie, but I even find myself sometimes if I'm in a certain moment, I feel like I have to snap a picture of it or it didn't happen. And I think that that's a way of us trying to hold on.

Yeah, that's right.

You know, we're trying to make something that is fleeting permanent.

That is interesting.

And we don't realize that all of life is changing. There's no one moment that's the same.

So I was saying about my sermon about part of it was about, I don't understand why people are scared of dying. I understand why people are sad about dying. There are two possible— no, there are three possible fates when you die: good, bad, nothing, right? There's no fourth possibility. So I don't think I will have a bad fate, okay? I think that God judges justly, and I think on balance I have led a bit—

I think you're good.

Okay, well, thank you.

As I'm looking at the Torah commentaries over your shoulder.

Well, that helps, I admit. So what's there to fear? Again, good, bad, or nothing. There's no reason to fear nothing. And one of my ways of making this point is how long, how long was the universe in existence prior to our birth?

I know, I know. And we don't, we don't remember it, right?

Billions of billions of years. Not 100, not 1,000, not 1 million, billions of years. We were not aware for billions of years, right? We had not been made. But when we die, we will not be aware either until we go to the afterlife, right? Whatever that is. And I don't know what it is. So anyway, I have no fear, but I do have sadness. You know, the— I'm always thinking, always. That's why I can drive without anything on often, because my mind keeps me interested. And so I think about subjects like this, and I, I was thinking the other day, what's the biggest difference between being your age and being my age, given that I'm, I'm perfectly healthy? All right, obviously if I were infirm, there would be an enormous difference, but I have the same energy you do. You know that to be true.

Probably more.

Oh, okay, maybe, maybe that's right. But I'm healthy, I'm happy, I have wonderful everything. There is one, really only one difference, and that is that I think about death more than you do. It's just, I think about— because I know I think about death more than when I was 25. Sorry to mention that you're 25 now.

You know what, I didn't even realize that you mentioned it, but then when you decided to point it out Thank you for that. Dennis said to me today, he goes, you know, Jules, because this is my birthday the other day, uh, you're 25 now, and you know, I was thinking 25 is different than 24.

Yeah, I did.

Yeah, you're closer to 30 now than you are to 20. And I'm like, thank you, Dennis.

Yeah, okay, you're closer to 80 now than you are to 70. That's right, that's correct. It's just amazing. So I remember when I was not just your age, but even just 30 years ago. So folks age that I am now would say, you know, we do read the obituary column. And I realize I don't turn to the obituary column, but it's inevitable I will see the death of so-and-so. But I always look at their age.

Right, right.

Yeah. You— it is a— it is the— not the blessing, but is a blessing of youth that you just don't think about it.

I know that you're, you're so right about that. I think I tend to think about it more than most. I make an effort to do so, but I hope you don't mind me going there, but what is it like? Do you, do you think about the way that you'll die? Do you think about how soon it will be? Do you think about what's after? Like, what is that? You know what, would it may be close to what? When I was graduating from college, I thought almost every single day about what it was like to graduate from college and then move on with my life. Yeah, that preoccupied my thoughts for the final, you know, 4 months of senior year. So that's sort of the best analogy that I can draw. But how do you think of it?

I think all of the things that you just said.

Is there any part that scares you? No part?

Oh yeah, I'm scared of dementia. I'm scared of a painful death. I'm scared of dying alone, and I'm very open about that. I'm not scared about dying. None. The— I watched my brilliant mother-in-law get dementia.

I know.

Well, and you, you barely, you barely knew her, but you did, and You know, that, that's scary. Death is not scary. That's scary. The, the thought— see, if somebody said to me, by the end you will be in a wheelchair, I'd say, okay, so I'll be in a wheelchair. Will I have my mind?

Right.

That, that's my question.

Dignity.

Will I— yes, of course it is.

You know what's so haunting living deaths.

Watch that. You mean like— yes, exactly, that's right.

That's what I'm talking about.

Yes, almost terrible pain and, uh, and dementia. Those are the— those are the— not, not, you know, well, well, I need a walker. Okay, so if I need a walker, I'll need a walker one day. So what? I'll be able to do a radio show. I'll be able to write books. That's what matters. There would be no professional— if I were in a wheelchair, I wouldn't like it because obviously the immobility would be sad. Right. And you have to be wheeled, which is— it's sad. But it's not tragic. As I said, everything that I'm doing now, I would be continuing to do. Franklin Roosevelt was in a wheelchair. Most Americans never knew that. Did you know that?

No.

Yes. Franklin, he had polio when he was younger.

No, that. Yes.

But he was in a wheelchair for his 3 terms as president.

Wow. I didn't—

4 terms.

Yeah.

The whole time. Yes. But he was never photographed from the angle the press— the press purposely did that.

Oh, how interesting. When the press would protect the president.

Yeah. Well, that's a good point. Yes.

To put puts the president in a better light.

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So something I know what your answer is going to be immediately because I know you so well, but I've been thinking a lot about this idea of regrets. Do you have any regrets?

Very, very few. You know what immediately comes to mind to give people an idea, I guess, of how few serious regrets I have, if any, actually. But it's a really good subject. I regret that I didn't keep a diary. And I'll tell you why I didn't keep a diary.

You wanted to live. You didn't want to record.

No, no, no. There's no nobility to my answer at all.

Laziness.

That's right.

Oh, me too.

That's entirely—

it's very laborious. That's why when I was in your—

I know who keeps a diary every day.

That's right. One page. I know. I've thought about doing that.

Yeah.

Model. But okay, putting aside the diary, what is a serious regret that you—

I don't have a serious regret.

Why?

Why don't I? Yeah. Well, I look, I had You know, I had two divorces, so you would think, well, I don't— I regret those marriages, and I don't regret them at all.

Of course. I mean, look at your two sons.

Well, that's right. That's the biggest factor. That's right. They're a blessing, and I wouldn't have had them if I had not been married to the women who were their mothers. You know, well, to the extent that you know my life, can you think of anything I should be regretful of?

No. Yeah, I don't think a lot of people would answer the way that you're answering though. I bet if we took a poll of our listeners, most people do have regrets, that a lot of people would say that they have regrets.

Yes.

What's it—

well, you see, it's an interesting thing.

I have regrets. I, I for sure have regrets.

Yeah, well, like what?

I wish I had more fun in high school, especially. I wish I had enjoyed my youth more.

So would you trade in— in retrospect, would you trade in getting into Harvard for more fun? No. Then you can't say you regret it.

Sure, fair.

No, you can't. I mean, that—

I would, I would not trade that in. No. That was worth it.

It would be like saying I regret all the money I've spent on my audio system, but I don't because I love the audio system.

Yeah, but I don't think it's that black and white. I wish I had more balance. I think I could have done what I did and had more balance.

Well, that's what I'm asking. Could you have had more fun and gotten into Harvard?

I could have added a little more fun.

Because your grades and your extracurricular sports Got you into Harvard.

Yes, true. No, I look, two things. We have a very— we live in a culture where we have a lot of discomfort with acknowledging two things to be true. It is both true that I wouldn't give it up. And it's also true that I could have allowed for more fun.

And what would have fun entail? Parties, let's say.

Closing the textbook and walking outside. Yeah. Just, you know, going out on more dates.

So are you certain that had you closed the textbook more you would have gotten into Harvard?

I think I could have added 5 to 10% more in my life. Yes.

What are the regrets?

Balance has always been something I've struggled with in this job. I definitely, for the first year or two, lacked balance.

I mean, between work and play.

Yeah. Yeah.

I, I've, I've never had—

I know. I know. God bless you. You, you, you really oscillate like you do it by the hour. It's, it's really great. You know, I've— on this note, and I wanted to make this point earlier, one great thing that I have learned from this world, among many things, is the ability to move in conversation between the tragic and the happy and the dark and the light. It's actually amazing, the versatility of the conversations that I have, for instance, at the Shabbat dinner table. You know, I brought a friend to Shabbat. About, about 6 months ago. And she said to me after that she was blown away by what I just said, that we could spend 5 minutes talking about what, if any, exceptions should there be for abortion and then move on to some hilarious story and then move on to, you know, something incredibly serious. I remember I used to view conversations as very kind of binary, like this was a difficult conversation or this was a sad conversation or this was a happy conversation. And now I don't see it that way. I think a truly elegant and sophisticated person has the ability to oscillate.

Yes, I couldn't agree more.

And I apply that to balance. I think I used to view my life as very much like these are the, the difficult years, like these are the years where I'm really going to grind and then fun is later. I don't, I don't view things as binary anymore.

These are all good lessons. As I say, you know, you'll find this interesting. I think I have said this to you, but I know I have not said it on Dennis and Julie, and I certainly haven't said it on my own show. So I have the diametrically opposed experience of yours in high school.

I know.

All I did was play.

I know.

That's all I did. I did not do one homework in 4 years. I graduated in the bottom— what is it? The bottom 20%. Thank you. Of my class. Top 80. I love saying that at speeches, folks. I graduated in the top 80% of my high school.

Do people get it or does it take a minute? No, no. I bet.

But I always stop. And then I wait for the first person to laugh, then the second, and then the hundredth, and then the two hundredth. Yes. And I'll tell you why I say this. People are amazed, and I'm not complimenting myself. I'm amazed too. So it's not a compliment issue. It's just a fact. I, I have no burnout.

Yeah.

And I think a big part of it is I started late.

Hmm.

I started—

what do you mean you started late?

In college. I started to work later.

Hmm.

I didn't work in elementary school or high school. I just played.

Well, you know, someone who was also like that was Alan Dershowitz, interestingly. By the way, did you guys go to the same—

yes, we did. Yes.

Wow.

He was a few years ahead of me, but so I didn't know him.

He was a very, uh, wait, Did he say that? Yes, he did. He, he faked his own suicide in high school.

Well, that's not funny.

No, it's not funny. But he was, he was just a total— he didn't care about school. He was—

so wait, where did he go to elementary school? Oh, he went to Brooklyn. I think he went to Brooklyn and then he went to Harvard.

Yeah.

And then he turned—

and you know what? I saw, I saw him a few days ago and he was telling the story. He went by Avi. Or Abbie.

Yeah.

Instead of Alan as a, as a child, apparently. And he ran into someone from his high school. This is like 20 years ago. He's in his, he's in his mid-80s. And he introduced himself as Alan Dershowitz. And the guy from the high school said, oh, I, I know that name Dershowitz. Were you, are you related to Abbie Dershowitz? And Alan said, no, no, I'm not. And the guy said, oh, sorry, Alan said, no, I'm not. But nothing, nothing came of him. And the guy responded, oh yeah, well, that's not a shock. We all could have seen that he would have amounted to nothing.

That's hilarious.

There are a lot of people who kind of have that. And not that that was you, but like, you know, didn't really put their head—

no, my parents, my parents thought I would end up—

really?

Yeah, absolutely.

Those people really interest me.

By the way, it was totally conscious. I even wrote about it. Wow. I actually wrote about it in essays for classes that I, uh, I wanted— I'm doing what I want now. It's very important that people understand when I say I played it, I was not going to parties. I never— I've never liked a party. I don't like parties.

I know you don't, right?

So, uh, What I did, I had a massive amount of fun. First of all, much of the day at school I laughed. I mean, I will tell you, this is truly hilarious, although I may be the only one watching, listening, or listening who finds it hilarious or participating, but— or participate. Correct. I didn't know how to refer to you. That's right. Or participating. So here is an example. In my Talmud class, that was— that's, you know, that is so cool.

You had a Talmud class. That sounds nerdy.

Well, half the day was Judaic studies in Hebrew, and half the day was secular studies in English. And I learned a lot, obviously. But I also horsed around a lot. So in the Talmud class, which I never found Talmud riveting. I don't blame the Talmud, I blame me, but it's just a fact. It was in Aramaic to begin with. My Aramaic is rusty. My Hebrew's excellent, but my Aramaic is nothing. And it was often on subjects that I didn't care about. They were very, you know, legal minutia. Anyway, so from the first— so September comes around, we go to class the first day. So I was sitting behind a guy, Isaac, and what I would do— there's no way you could fully relate to this. Did you ever hear of the Publishers Clearing House? I'm sure.

Yeah, of course.

How?

I just— I don't know, living in the world.

You got mail? You got mail from them?

No, I've just heard of that.

Okay, so Publishers Clearing House would send like 100 million Americans, they would get an envelope with little stickers. So they're like postage stamps. You tear them, they're perforated, you tear them, and you would put each— each of those stickers was the name of a magazine. And that's why it's called Publisher's Clearinghouse. Publishers of magazines would use Publishers Clearing House to get subscribers.

I see.

So if I would, let's say, put down Popular Electronics, which I did subscribe to, so I would take, tear off the adhesive picture of Popular Electronics and stick it on the box for a reduced price, right? Get it with me?

I'm with you.

So I would bring those into class and I would take one of the stickies, perhaps, you know, Popular Mechanics, like, or I don't know, Sports Illustrated, and I would stick it on the back, Isaac's back. Isaac would then go like this and he would pull off a sticker. Of one of the magazines and get annoyed with me.

Yeah.

Which was the only point of it. If you didn't get annoyed with me—

Yeah, of course. That's what makes it fun.

There's no joy. So I would do it about 1 or 2 more times, and then for the rest of the year, all I would do is put my thumb on his back with no stab.

And he'd get really annoyed.

And he would still go like this. So people have to understand that this is so childish what I'm describing, but it was so much fun driving him nuts. I would— when I went to school, every kid brought a briefcase, not a backpack.

So cute.

Yes, every kid, the girls too. Everybody had a briefcase next to their— with their notebook and their books, right? Their pencils. Right. Pens. I was so bored in class. That's a big factor. It didn't matter if it was in English or Hebrew. I was bored. What I would do is I would arrange with my male cohorts. There you go. Cohort. I would, I would arrange with them at a certain sign that they would all take the girl's briefcase from the side of their seat. And switch it with another girl's briefcase.

That's the kind of stuff I would do.

That— yeah, I know, I believe you. No, it sounds like you're getting up from the, uh, water and doing this and waving. So the teacher would then say, all right, everybody take out your notebooks, please. And then the girls would go down and it wasn't their briefcase, and they would yell or panic, right? And I— the joy that that brought me—

I know, it's so fun.

Oh, it's immeasurable.

I used to push people in the pool and they were like getting ready to, you know—

you did? Yeah, they'd be standing there.

I used to dunk people under the water. You know what my mom did growing up, and it was so fun, and I've done it now that I'm older? She would pretend to be the be someone totally different than who she is. We would be on a plane. I remember one time we were in a shuttle going to a ski mountain, and she'd be like, hello, my name is Louisa, and we're from London. How are you doing? How are you enjoying your holiday? And I would be so— I would be like, think it was riveting. And she would just make every moment fun. I, I, the other night was at dinner with a friend. We were at a, we were at a party, my friend Kate, and she's an actress. And I am, I am not an actress. And I said to her, because it was this huge party and these people went— random people would come and sit down at our table. And I said, the next people who come and sit, you're going to be Julie and I'm going to be Kate. We're going to pretend to be each other. And it was so fun.

Wait, including the person's life and everything?

And then it was so interesting to see how does she view my life and how do I view her life?

That is cool.

Hey, I'm Kate and I'm an actress. Oh really? Where— you know, it was also a good quiz. Oh, and what movies do you act in, or what kind of acting do you do?

Did you, did you have an answer?

I just made something up. I'm like, oh, I do, I do method acting. I don't know what that is.

You don't even know what method—

they go, oh, what's method acting?

Oh, then you were screwed.

No, you just make it up.

I don't know what method.

And then, and then they ask her, they go, uh, oh, what do you do? She goes, conservative talk radio. And then they go, oh, like, how did you become conservative? And she had to do the whole Julia. Yes, there was this guy, Dennis Prager. She had to do the whole—

the whole thing. She knew enough about you.

Yeah, she's my best friend.

Oh, she's your best friend? I didn't realize. Oh, that's fun.

Yeah, you just got to make life fun. You know what? There are a lot—

next time Alan and I go to lunch, I think that's hilarious. Unfortunately, too well known to get away with it. It's a problem.

There— agree or disagree— there are a lot of boring people in the world.

Oh, that's a given. It's, you know, you know my theory on why I'm interesting?

Why?

I didn't tell you this?

No.

This is a true story. I mean, it's not a true story, it's the truth. It's not a story, but it is the truth. I lose attention very, very quickly, very quickly. You know who doesn't? I'll give an example: Steve Marmer. But, but I think that's true for every therapist because they're so used to listening to patients ramble. That's probably why I could not be a therapist, right? I would have really good ideas for them, I believe, but I wouldn't, I wouldn't last through listening to them for more than 5 minutes, which is not to my credit. I'm just noting. But in order to keep me interested I have to be interesting. I would bore me. I monitor what I'm saying. I monitor what I'm writing. It's why my writing is interesting. I would go, you know, that line is completely unnecessary. I love shortening everything.

You are very good at that. You're very, very concise. You were telling me once you were giving a speech.

Oh, this was—

you realized that you were boring yourself.

Yes, I said those words words to myself during the speech in my 20s, younger than you, and I said, Dennis, you're boring me. And it had a big impact because if I'm boring me, I presume I'm going to be boring someone.

It's easy. I know this now through working in this industry. It's actually very easy to kind of click off and dial in.

That's right. Go on to automatic. Yeah.

Yeah. You just start analyzing something and you can kind of right click off. Yeah. To danger.

Every— is an example of something I've never said publicly. So I mean, it's not, it's not private, it's just I wouldn't say it if I weren't— it wasn't elicited from me. I would say that every single show I've done for 40 years, every single speech I've given for 50 years, regularly during that time, I will monitor, am I being interesting? Am I keeping people's attention? Because I do, I do this, this is a gift. I do have a sense, even without an audience, as we have no audience here, I do have a sense of whether I'm losing people's attention.

Yep. You know, I can't understand speakers, and there are so many of them.

I know.

Who are boring, and they go, And one final point before I leave you, or before, you know, you're— they make some self-deprecating remark. I'm like, if you're even making the self-deprecating remark that you're being boring, that is a sign that you need to cut it off immediately. And you know, in the audience when people do this collective like— and they, you know, shift their seat and they cross their legs, it's like, are you not picking up on this?

So here's—

read the room.

Here's a an early anecdote from my life of speaking. My first public speech— I had given others in high school, but I don't count them— my first real public speech was the week I came back from the Soviet Union and went to my regular synagogue on the Sabbath, on Saturday. A large retail store just canceled a huge order, leaving MyPillow with a lot of extra MyPillows. But you know what? That's their loss and your gain. For the first time ever, you can get a standard classic MyPillow for wholesale prices only, $14.88. But it gets better. For a limited time, they're offering their entire classic collection of wholesale prices at wholesale prices. Get queen-size MyPillows for just $18.88. Upgrade to a king for only a dollar more. Get the body pillows for $29.88 and multi-use MyPillows for only $9.88. Go to mypillow.com and use the promo code PRAGER or HARTMAN, or call 800-566-6745 to take advantage of wholesale pricing for the first time ever. On top of that, receive free shipping on orders over $75. They have never been offered this low before. There are limited quantities at this price, so the limit is 10, and once they're gone, they're gone. Go to mypillow.com or call 800-566-6745. That's 800-566-6745. Or use the promo code Hartman to get the standard MyPillow for only $14.88, the lowest price ever And the rabbi said, Dennis, young Dennis, or just Dennis Prager, just came back from the Soviet Union. Israel sent him there. He's going to report on the situation of Soviet Jews. So Dennis, please come up to the bima, as they call it, the pulpit. You know, I mean, these are people I grew up under, and I'm giving them a lecture. And a very, very dramatic thing happened during the lecture.

You started to cry?

No, no, you— but you will find it as interesting. Are you ready? Yeah, because this will fascinate you. In the middle of the lecture, because I'm very aware, I read the room, as our dear Astrid would say. And I— that's built in. I read the room. And I remember thinking, holy crow, it is so quiet.

Rapt attention.

I was— I remember being stunned. When the rabbi would speak each week, there was like this low of people whispering to each other, or in my father's case, snoring, because he would take a nap. But, and to this day, I am aware of how quiet it is when I give lectures. And if it isn't quiet, I would think, what am I doing wrong? But here's the other thing. I didn't know why— I knew they were quiet because they found me riveting. But I didn't understand why they found me riveting.

Do you understand that now?

Yes, but it has nothing— it has— well, I can't say nothing. I realize it— the reason it was so quiet was my presence as much as my substance. And the presence thing is a gift. I did nothing whatsoever in life. I am as not responsible for eliciting silence when I get up to speak or when I start speaking as I am for my being tall. I did nothing to become tall. I did nothing to get that ability. This was built in, but it is built in. And I found that my first years of lecturing, and I started at 21, I remember when I would see other young people speak and there was always a little din or shuffling of bodies or something. And then I would get up and it got quiet. That's— there's no way to explain that other than a gift.

So when you said that you didn't understand why people were captivated by you or found you to be riveting, and you said now that you— now you do, what is it? Oh no, people find to be riveting.

So It's again, it's an intangible. It's a presence. That's the term I use that I have and I take zero credit for. I keep reemphasizing that none of this is a boast. This is just an observation about life. It is like a great pianist. I often think of musicians because it's such a big part of my life, music. It's a sort of charisma. That even a musician who doesn't say a word will have. Yeah, when they start, there are pianists within a few notes, it's quieter than it is normal. I'm— because I've gone to so many concerts and there's no explaining it. You— and I still can't fully explain it except that the audience knows that there's the real deal here. Makes sense.

It does. I mean, it does. I mean, you know it when you, you see it. I mean, when I'm on the air, I feel it. What do you feel if I'm being interesting and I know if I'm not? I've developed that.

Oh, that. Oh, that's big.

And a lot of it is, is a mirror. It's am I— if I no longer treat me like I'm inside of me. I treat me like I'm—

Oh, that's it. Oh, I always think of me from outside of me.

See, I didn't used to do that. Oh, I now think of me from outside.

Yes.

There are these ways of orienting your mind that you have to have.

You have a— you— so you're sort of watching yourself on a screen. There's a camera above you.

Yep.

That's right. I have that. That's right.

So why do you think people fear public speaking? What do you think it's really about?

I think they fear being embarrassed. I won't do a good job. I think— what else? What else could they— I assume because I never had that fear, but so I can't fully relate to it.

You never got afraid?

What I did was in the very, very— I was nervous about my first speech, the one that I gave at the synagogue. I was. But in part because it was— I'd never given one, but it was also in part because I felt such a moral obligation to tell the story about what I saw in the Soviet Union. And I didn't think I was up to the job because— and I was right. I said after about a year, and I began lecturing 3 times a week. And I would finally say within the first year, I would look at the audience and I would say, I just want you to know, you are living in America. You are as incapable of understanding totalitarianism as people in the Soviet Union are of understanding freedom. And I was right. Most Americans did not know what the hell I was talking about, and I'm not blaming them, when I would say everyone is monitored. The state knows what you're saying to your neighbor. They know who's visiting your apartment.

What television you watch.

Maybe. Well, first of all, very few people out of television. So, but, but yeah, but you could say it about radio. Yeah. Well, certainly in North Korea where you only can listen to one station.

So, you know, earlier in the episode I was complimenting your, your, how did I phrase it? Your utter indifference to status. And I was never really that status conscious. I, I, I feel lucky. I similarly, I don't know about you. I've never been a jealous person. Some girls tend to struggle with that. I, for some reason, have never struggled with that in particular. But to the extent to which I cared about status, I can't even tell you how little I care about it now because I see the world so differently. I see what you were just saying about America and the Soviet Union. I go, okay, let me get this straight. There are 350 million Americans in the world. There are 8 billion people on Earth. That means 4% of the world is American. I did nothing to deserve to be born as an American. Literally nothing. And I just kind of— and people who make a lot of money and have a lot of success, they deserve— you know, I'm a capitalist. You deserve your wealth. You deserve to have a certain degree of status and you know, an elevated position conferred upon you. I'm all about that. But I really just view life as, as, as we should talk about luck. I know luck is a big thing. I view it as such a spectacular roll of the dice.

Like, well, this is a— this is a big deal that you feel that way.

I mean, there's— forgive me for interrupting, but there's a guy who— and I've mentioned him before— who works here. He's a— he's a parking attendant and he has a terrible face. I know, I do too. And he is— he's so joyful.

What's his name again?

Arturo. He starts here at 1:30 in the morning.

I didn't know that.

Yes, 1:30 in the morning.

Huh? What did he say?

And I— he—

wait, why does he start at 1:30 in the morning?

I don't know. Apparently people are—

what time does he start?

Maybe there's local radio. He leaves at like 3 or 2.

He works 13 hours.

I never see him on the way out. He's gone by afternoon. He was not born in America. He came over legally. He works as a parking attendant. He has very little education. How am I like—

I know.

And I drive in in my car.

I drive in in my car.

I was born in America. I went to these amazing schools. I have amazing parents. And then you're going to tell me that I'm going to think I'm better than Arturo?

So really, this, this is why Julie is special.

No, but it's okay. I really appreciate that. I truly do. But it's, it's like when people say that, you know, I'm brave for fighting against leftism, I'm like, I think it's the most obvious thing in the world. There is nothing good about— I mean, there is something good, but that should be so obvious to people. The people who have the audacity to be unkind to someone like Arturo, who do you think you are?

Or just not to walk around in perpetual gratitude?

Yeah.

The thing I most dislike about the left is that they're ingrates.

Yes.

That's the single biggest one.

Yes. Especially with regard to America.

Well, that's what I'm thinking.

But I just— I look— I'm telling you, I just I just, when I see someone, I think of the way that I could just be them if the die was cast differently. There's a homeless guy who I've become acquainted with. I get him iced tea whenever I'm at CVS. And he was telling me that he got into a car accident in February. He got addicted to opioids. His insurance wouldn't cover his surgery. And he's in a wheelchair addicted to opioids. He grew up in a broken home in Central California. I'm like, that, that could have been me.

That's correct. Boy, this, this went into a pure micro. I hope people are okay.

We also—

I actually feel self-conscious.

Really?

Well, because so much of it was about me or about you, but it's been about us individually as opposed to the great issues.

But I think they were about the great issues.

Uh-huh. You may be right. I'm just— I'm hypersensitive on that subject.

But I understand.

I know objectively, if, if people would open up about their lives like we did, it would rivet me.

Well, yes.

So, so I'm being unnecessarily harsh on myself, but I just—

you are. What it is, you know, I fantasize sometimes about having a show where I just I just interview random people.

Oh, I do too.

I would love to sit across from anyone. Tell me about the house you grew up in.

I have another fantasy related. Then we have to break. We have to end the hour or hour and a quarter. I have—

I look at people walking in the street and you make up stories about them.

No, no, I never do. I have a different thing. I think I would do anything to hire a great biographer to write that woman's biography. That woman, you know, who is a middle-aged woman and overweight and, you know, carrying groceries. I want her biography. I want to read it.

Of course.

How did she get there? And it's— or even more dramatic, a homeless person. How did they end up there?

Oh, oh, you know, I, I have started— I signed up. I know we have to break, but I signed up for an online letter-writing program with prisoners. I haven't sent them. I'm like doing all the paperwork. And you know what they tell you? They say you really have to commit to this because people get attached to someone.

You have to be careful. Yeah.

And something I would love to write— I don't care who it is— I would want to go, take me to that day when you committed your crime. Tell me your exact thought process.

Well, the whole day, if they will.

On that note, if you're, if you're listening from prison, you can email me at julie@julie-hartman.com. I love hearing about people's lives. Sometimes people drone on with superfluous things, but I love hearing from any and all of you. And thank you for writing in. You can also follow me on Instagram and Twitter @JulieRhartman, Dennis on Instagram @TheDennisPrager. And on Twitter @DennisPrager. And of course, you can go to— what is it? DennisPrager.com.

It's the best. Yep.

Bye everyone.

Bye. Thank you. Cheers.

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