Judaism and Christianity

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Hello everybody. Dennis and Julie. Dennis Prager and Julie Hartman. Hello, Julie Hartman.

Hello, Dennis Prager. Or apropos of Dennis and Julie, shalom, Dennis Prager.

That's amazing.

You know, people write to me at julie@julie-hartman.com. See, I throw it out at the beginning of the show. Now I don't have to say it at the end, but they write to me and they address me, shalom.

They do?

Yeah. And then they sign off, shalom.

It's funny because I'm the Jew and I almost never say it, and you're the non-Jew. I love it.

It's so fun. And as you know, I say Shabbat shalom on Mondays.

Correct. Only a handful of people appreciate how ludicrous that is, but that's what makes it funny. Completely understandable. So you said this is like number 90-something.

Yeah, I think 92.

Did we— I know I've gone over this, so I apologize, but have we ever missed a week?

No.

People don't realize how remarkable that is.

Oh, it is really.

Given all the travel.

Given the travel and the filming window that we have, we only have 3 hours to film.

That's right.

And timeless.

We take this really seriously.

Well, also, we love it.

I'm correct. That's fair to say.

As we've said on this show, I take this very seriously. I know that it is work, and I'm always reading and thinking about, you know, topics and refining my brain for the benefit of this show. But I don't— when I'm here filming, I honestly, honestly don't view it as work.

That is correct. Well, we, we— I'm only hesitating because I don't want it to sound again like, you know, we're just saying how wonderful what we do is, but we— I'm not saying it in that way. I'm just saying how enjoyable. All right, we both love it. So a lot has happened. It is amazing. If we last recorded a little over a week ago, it is astonishing, and at least certainly in my life, but I know in yours as well, but especially in mine. So I've been to New York. I I spoke at Columbia University, and I'm telling you, I wish everybody who's worried about America— and I am, believe me, really worried— but I wish people could have the positive experiences that I have all over the country. I met about 100 Columbia students And I spoke to many of them, many of them for a while, because afterwards we went for pizza and I took questions and I was there for 2 hours plus then 2 hours afterwards at the pizza place. Just really good. I think even number of males and females, really, you would have liked them. And it does, it does give you hope. But my thinking was they must be so lonely on their campus.

Did you ask them?

Yeah, and I should have asked them more now that you think of it, but I was just happy to take their questions and I didn't have it. I felt that's what I needed to do most rather than get information for me. But the implication is yes, of course. There were no— this is what's interesting. Do you know that I've spoken to many campuses and Usually there are protesters. It's meaningless. It's not violent. It's not even screaming. It's just usually signs, you know, Dennis Prager, white supremacist, or some other nonsense. And at Columbia, what they did at Columbia, though, you don't know this, so you'll find—

I do know this. You told me on the phone last night.

Oh, yeah. They— what they do is they sign up and then don't show up so that those seats are taken.

Yep. They will. They did that at Trump rallies. I remember on Instagram seeing people posting, buy your tickets for the, you know, Tuscaloosa Trump rally. This was in 2016 and even in 2020. And then have they wanted it so that all these seats were taken?

And so here's a good question. Does our side do that?

I feel I'm always trying to be fair to both sides.

Yes, that's why I asked it as a question.

Constantly, constantly asking myself if I do that effectively enough and commonly enough. So, but this answer I'm going to give makes me sound really partial. I don't think our side does that.

Yeah. Oh, my question. My question was an open question.

I know, but I just want to make it clear.

I don't think our side does it either.

I don't just blindly go, well, of course our side would never do such a thing. Our side has a lot of issues. That was just the point I wanted to make to the audience. But I don't think we tend to do that. We don't tend to protest.

Oh, yeah. Well, that's a good point.

No, it is a good point. We don't. If— because we believe in free speech.

There is another reason. This really goes to the heart of a lot of things. The macro and the political are not as important. They're not as life-filling for the average conservative as for the person on the left.

That is so true.

Well, since you obviously know what I'm saying, go ahead.

Well, leftism has become a religion. Even if you look at, I mean, let's look at the language that they use. They insist on a kind of purity of language and thought. That's religious. They have, I mean, even when you hear on the left things like, I'm manifesting, don't you hear people say that? I'm manifesting that Biden will win, or I'm manifesting this. That's sort of a substitution for praying. I actually am thinking about writing an article, giving a list of all of the colloquialisms and things that we hear on the left that are very religious. But the point is, the left is also religious in the sense that it's kind of like a unifying ideology for your entire life and the way that you conduct yourself in every realm of life. The whole idea that the personal is political is a kind of, I think, religious thing. Like, politics seeps into every realm of life. And I think it's a way to give meaning. We all yearn for a higher purpose. In life and attending protests, crusading against what they believe to be evil, that is bigoted, antiquated right-wing conservatives that fulfills a kind of void that religion used to fulfill.

That's, that's the part that I meant.

But there's, but there are also aspects of it which are truly, in addition to the meaning part, I think like the way words are used and rituals.

Yes. That they exemplify. Yeah, I agree with you. Of course. I've, I've called it my whole life secular religion, but it's that this fills them. We are filled already. See, when you, again, I wanna remind everybody, I'm reacting to your comment, well, why aren't we out there protesting all the time? And getting preoccupied with this stuff. That is not the inclination of the conservative. The inclination of the conservative is really a much more peaceful existence. I get meaning from my family. I get meaning from my church. I get meaning from my synagogue. I get meaning from my hobbies. I get meaning from my friends. I get meaning from all the holidays that I have. But none of that— well, friends presumably are available to anybody, but by and large, that's not part of the left. The left doesn't get meaning from, uh, from being a member of the nation, in this case America, but could be any nation. Doesn't get meaning from God, doesn't get meaning from religion, doesn't, doesn't get meaning from hobbies as much. They— I'm sure that leftists have hobbies, but this is, this is a very important point. I can speak for me. My interest in political activism is zero.

Me too. Me too. Well, we talk about that, that although we're conservative commentators, we really don't care that much about politics. We care about values and how values is affecting politics.

Well, also, I'll go further just to tell you about you. The fact that you named your own podcast Timeless. Timeless is the opposite of the political.

Exactly. And as you know, you are happy.

You are happier to talk to the author of a new translation of The Iliad than to talk to somebody about who has the best chance for the Republican nomination.

That's what I do. Half, I would even say over half. Sean may want to weigh in on this. I think about 60 to 70% of my content on Timeless is not political. I did a show the other day on Christmas art. Now, of course, some would say that that is political, but that was kind of my point earlier about how left, in leftism, everything is political.

Well, of course, yeah. Well, only to them it is.

To you it isn't.

Well, of course.

But I looked through these different paintings starting Renaissance paintings. We looked at holy, you know, nativity scenes. And then we went to the commercial. We looked at paintings of Santa Claus. We looked at Norman Rockwell paintings of families families around Christmas time. And it wasn't— it was just let's enjoy this art and let's talk about which, which paintings we like best and why. I did show— I did a show on how advertising has changed. I've done shows on flags. I had a magician on the show. There's so much more to life.

I'm happy I raised this subject because it allows me to explain us and conservatives and me specifically more. I rue next year as a talk show host because so much is about the political. I envy countries that have a 6-week period before elections when candidates are chosen and there's campaigning. And until 6 weeks, I think in some democracies even, there is actually— there are laws about when you can start campaigning.

I mean, really?

Yeah. I'm obviously pro-free speech, but I envy them that this bathing in the political is not ubiquitous, is not universal, let's put it that way. Maybe ubiquitous, it's not universal. And I just dread it. Do you know, this you'll find of interest, I recently went to a city where I'm on the radio, and the turnout— I was with, in fact, I was with one of my colleagues who's quite popular. All my colleagues are popular. And the turnout was disappointing. It's not important to say which city. It's truly irrelevant to my point. And I, you know, my preoccupation is always with the question why.

Yeah.

Why didn't more? I think, I think 200 to 300 people came and 600 should have come. And I was thinking, why? And I asked the head of the station that brought me in, why do you think? And they just weren't sure. They were thinking, well, maybe it's because of the inflation and people are watching their money. And it's not like they were charging a lot. So I didn't buy that. And then I came up with the answer. It took me a while. The topic that they advertised was political.

Oh, interesting.

And I said, that's the reason people are not as preoccupied. Even conservative activists are not as preoccupied with politics as you think they are. I said, had you brought me alone and I'm not advocating that, I love being with my colleagues, but had you brought me alone to talk on happiness or on men and women, you would've gotten a bigger turnout than two of us on the race to the White House a year before.

[Speaker] You know, it's so interesting. I hear that, like that term, the race to the White House, and I get this kind of like Pavlovian alert, like this, you heard me, I went, ugh, because we, the market is oversaturated with that stuff. It's just everywhere. And that's one of the things I love so much about the conservatives I know, especially you. You guys have such a rich, vast life outside of the political realm. I mean—

That is our life.

Right, it is. What is the political's actually very tiny part?

My major work of the last 10 years is a Bible commentary.

I know. Well, that's what I said to you. And I said, isn't it interesting because you have these works on happiness, a Bible commentary, the Why the Jews, or 9 Questions People Ask About Judaism. Bill O'Reilly, another, you know, big conservative.

That's right.

He has all of these books on the Salem witch trials, the killing of Jesus.

Yes.

You know, I mean, it's the assassination of John F. Kennedy. And I often encounter these individuals and they— and it really—

and that's Bill O'Reilly, who is known for political thought.

I know. And I encounter these individuals and I go, I mean, Andrew Klavan is another one who's written, I mean, books on his faith. He's written books, or he's written, why am I forgetting, fiction books. He writes and does so much outside of the political. And these are three-dimensional textured people.

It's a very interesting question. Who are their equivalents? We— so let's say so there's Shapiro and there's Peterson and there's Prager and there's Rubin and there's Peterson's another good example.

He does, right?

No, no, no. So I'm just saying that's my point. So, well, it's part of my point. Let— what— to get to my point, I want to ask a question. Maybe you have the answer. Who are the left-wing equivalents of those 5 names?

I don't. I don't know.

It's an interesting question, isn't it? Because if anybody says, give me the leading conservative political thinker, though Victor Davis Hanson obviously would be— I always afraid to mention names because I know Larry Elder, I'm missing somebody who's terrific, but that's inevitable and it doesn't matter. It just happens. So I can't— I don't know who they are. And I do this for a living. Who are the left-wing Public intellectuals.

Robin DiAngelo, Reverend X.

Okay, okay, so fine. But Rachel Maddow. And it's all, it's all unison. It's all monophonic, to use a music word from my hobby of musical equipment. It's monophonic. It's all race. Robin DiAngelo is white supremacy. What else do you know her for? Is she writing a Bible commentary? Is she doing a study of Klumer? Is she writing about art? I mean, Ibram X. Kendi, race. They don't care about the nonpolitical. It's their lives. That's— I want to go back because it's easy for the listener to miss the overwhelming point. The political is their life.

Yes, everything is political. The light bulbs you buy, the clothes you wear, the people you hang out with, what you consume on social media, the shows, everything is political and it fills their life.

I have to keep going to that. That's the point I want to make.

Well, one of the things I really appreciate about Bill O'Reilly's books, and I have consumed them, I mean, they're— once you read one, you just buy all the rest of them. But my two favorites are Killing the SS and Killing the Witches. About the first one is about the—

how many of them have you read?

I have read I've read 4. And Killing the SS is about the Israeli government's heroic, if we can even, I mean, that is an understatement, capture of Eichmann, capture of, yes, Adolf Eichmann and the other Nazi hunters who went to South America to try to find Dr. Josef Mengele, the Angel of Death, and Klaus Barbie and all these other Nazis who escaped to South America. That one is one of my favorites. And then Killing the Witches is another favorite. I actually interviewed him on my show about Killing the Witches. And what I really appreciate about those books, among many other things, first of all, they're such rich historical novels and it reads like a thriller.

Not novels.

Oh, sorry. Yes, books. Thank you. I don't know why I said novels. What I meant to say is it reads like a novel.

That's right.

There are books that read like a thriller. They read like a novel. But there you learn so much. But I also appreciated that he didn't spin it into like a commentary on the modern day. I think he very appropriately—

doesn't even spin it on a commentary on that day. He tells you the story.

Exactly. He really kept it in its time. And his, his vocation is, I'm going to tell you what happened. It's really period, end of story.

That's right.

And, you know, so I'll give you— so I just said a few moments ago that on Timeless, I recently did an episode on Christmas art. And one of the things that I said, because we started off looking, as I told you, at nativity scenes, we looked at 3 Renaissance painters' depictions of the nativity, and then we went to the present day and we looked at 2 modern artists' nativity works, Salvador Dalí and Henry Moore. Dalí and Moore's nativity depictions, respectively, literally look like paint thrown on a canvas. It's like a modern take on the Nativity. Henry Moore's is really dark. You can make out a lantern, but you can't really figure out what's going on in the scene. And then Salvador Dalí's is literally like he took black paint and just threw it at the wall and is calling it a Nativity scene. And one of the comments that I made was, in modern work, there— it shows the conceit of the artist. Because the artist is really making the painting about them. Those two paintings are not about the nativity. I call BS on that. And I know we live in this, you can't criticize everyone.

No, no, that is a really good, good point.

It's not about the nativity. And honestly, it's insulting to even go through this charade that it's about the nativity.

When you see Michelangelo in the Sistine Chapel, you don't think about Michelangelo.

Yes. Because the artist takes himself, his or herself out of it. Michelangelo and Correggio and Saint John and the other— forget the third Renaissance painter I had. There are many good reasons to buy gold and silver. Bank failures, digital currency volatility, emerging market countries trying to topple the dollar as the global reserve currency. Julie Hartman here for Amped Coin and Bullion, Dennis's choice for buying precious metals. If you ask AmFed owner Nick Grovich to simplify the case for precious metals, he'll tell you when President Roosevelt recalled the gold in circulation and paid people with paper money, they received a $20 bill for a $20 gold piece. Today, that $20 bill won't even fill half of your gas tank, but the gold piece is worth about $2,000. Which would you rather own? Now let's simplify the reasons to use AmFed coin and bullion. Nick's been in the industry for over 42 years, and he's proud of providing transparency and fair pricing to build trusted relationships. If you're interested in buying or selling, call Nick and, and his team at AmFed Coin and Bullion, 1-800-221-7694, americanfederal.com, americanfederal.com. But the painters I showed on Timeless, the Renaissance painters, oh, Botticelli. Botticelli's Nativity is another one. They're making it about the scene. They are trying to deploy their work to glorify God. It's not about them.

That's right.

With Dalí, he's trying to give you the hot, modern, cool take of the Nativity. But by doing so, he's inserting himself in the work. So to bring it back to Bill O'Reilly, Bill O'Reilly in this analogy is the Botticelli, right? He's the subject.

Is the subject. The subject is the subject, not me.

And today we see these, these readings of history that get sponged in modern day.

Sort of, if you don't worship God, you worship yourself. Yeah. It comes down in many ways to that. But you're so right. I'm thinking about the area I know best is music. And nope, when somebody analyzes a Beethoven symphony, I'm just thinking of how accurate what you're saying is. You're more into art than into music, so I'll use the music analogy. When somebody analyzes a Beethoven symphony, they don't think about Beethoven. They think about what he is saying about life, about meaning, about struggle. Well, you know, Beethoven here is talking about the inner conflict of, you know, whatever you want to say. But nobody looking at, you know, who's the painter, the most famous one who threw paint cans from his, from his ladder. The American—

Robert Florczak is listening and yelling it out.

No, no, no. It's painful. It's just me and names because he's such a famous name. Everybody listening knows except us. Anyway, when you look at these and they go for millions of dollars now, nobody said, what is he saying about life? Yeah, well, he's saying nothing about life.

We need to call it out for what it is. And it's incredible. It's It's narcissistic, really.

Yes.

And you see these— I mean, I have stopped watching television, A, because I've become so addicted to books, and B, because you watch these shows and the shows are no longer there. I mean, Sex and the City is the greatest example of this. I watched the old Sex and the City that was, I don't know, was it in the '90s and early 2000s? I was not even born slash a baby when it was running on HBO originally, and they just did a reboot. And those of us who are fans, you know, it's a chick flick show. Those of us who are fans of Sex and the City were so excited for the reboot. The reboot, you should actually analyze it on your show. It is— one could think that it is satire. Grace Curley is a Boston radio host, a conservative. She's on the Howie Carr Radio Network, and I listen to her sometimes, and she has this great segment on her show called Woke or Joke, and she reads something, a headline, and she has people call in and guess if it's woke or joke. It's just a fun little segment that she does. The Sex and the City reboot could honestly be a candidate for woke or joke because it is so woke. You think, oh God, there's, there's no way that, that the showrunners are actually putting something out like this.

That's amazing.

One of the main characters becomes a lesbian and divorces her husband and gets with this, with this very radical left-wing, non-binary person. And they're showing— I mean, they have all these like sex scenes. It's just, it's very crude. One of the daughters of another where the protagonist is trans and has a they mitzvah instead of a bar or bat mitzvah, a they mitzvah. There are other examples that I'm forgetting, but because I only watched a bit of it a year ago. But you look at these modern pieces of art and shows, and it's hearkening back to what we're talking about, that the political is suffused everywhere. And but But again, what I hope we're conveying is that I think this is narcissistic because I'm not turning on Sex and the City to be proselytized to. I'm not turning on Sex and the City to be reminded of my white privilege and, you know, of the plight of the trans in America. I'm watching Sex and the City to be entertained. And it's just—

they can't help them.

They can't help themselves. And they're inserting themselves into this work. And it's It's no longer about the viewer. It's about them and the, and the political message that they're going to hit you over the head with. And that's what the Oscars— that's why people don't watch the Oscars or the Emmys anymore.

They don't care because they are religious. These are true believers. If you said to the Oscar people, those getting the awards and making presentations, just want you to know that every time you make a political comment, that ensures that next year we have fewer viewers, they will say we don't care, right? And they really don't care.

I know.

See, the— I don't doubt the sincerity of bad people. This is— that's why I've never— I don't believe in my life I have used the term sincere as a compliment, because it is irrelevant if you're sincere. Completely irrelevant.

That's such a Dennis Prager line that you don't use sincere as a compliment.

Right. I don't use it, by the way. I don't use it as an insult. It is a useless term.

Who?

Hitler was sincere. Stalin was sincere. What does it mean? And good people are sincere. It is. It means it's like you breathe.

You've really influenced me on this subject. I now, I used to talk about people's intentions. I really don't so much anymore because you're right, it doesn't matter in the end as much as your actions do.

The great battle, I've had two major battles ideologically in my life. One is to teach people that the end of Judeo-Christian values is the end of civilization. Some people Have bought it. Many have not. I think it is now more obvious than ever when you have campuses erupting on behalf of the Nazis of our time, Hamas. There is no difference between them. There is one difference. Hamas announces it wishes to exterminate the Jews, whereas the Nazis hid it. The Nazis hid the Holocaust to the best of their ability. They— these video it. They're proud of butchering Jews. And the other is that behavior is all that matters. And that this one is a harder one, ironically, because whereas in the first case, I obviously have religious Jews and Christians on my side, on the, on behavior is all that matters, I don't have a lot of Christians on my side. And these are people I adore. This is not a knock on them at all. I'm just explaining. I had a phenomenal talk with Eric Metaxas on this on his show at the National Religious Broadcasters Convention, the Christian Broadcasters, but last year, earlier this past year, and it was to his credit, and I just had an evening with him in New York City just this past week. The— to his great credit, he listens. He so pursues truth that as hard as it was for him as a committed believing Christian to hear, because Christianity— and I totally understand why, based on the New Testament— is very much how you think is an issue, is a moral religious issue. And when I get up and say, no, it isn't. How you act is the moral religious issue. It is hard for a lot of Christians to hear that, and I, and I respect that fact, and I say it with love and respect. But those are— but ironically, or maybe, maybe ironically is not the word, but it might be, the left The left hates that much more even than Christians hear it. And they may not agree, but they don't hate it. But the left hates it because the left is entirely about— it is not at all about what did you do? Why don't they hate communism? Because they meant well. Oh, the fact that they slaughtered more people than the Nazis by a factor of 10 is— oh yeah, about a factor of 10. Does it— doesn't mean anything. And they know nothing.

And they don't care that you're the godfather of a gay couple's son or daughter.

That's a perfect example. No, that's correct.

Your public position on gay marriage matters far more to them than your actions.

That's right.

Right. Yes. Well, you know, it's hard because, as I just said, you've influenced me a great deal on this subject, caring more about actions than thoughts. But I do think one of the strengths of Christianity is how they advise you to direct your thoughts. For instance, something that I've been thinking about a lot lately is this concept of turning the other cheek and praying for your enemies and essentially wishing the people who hate you all the best. I'm sure you've had to grapple with this a lot. I mean, being in the public eye, and you are many times over more in the public eye than I am, but I'm even seeing this, you know, you get people writing to you just with vicious, vicious things, calling you names. And it's— and then seeing the things that they're advocating for, I just sometimes I look at these individuals, especially online, and I feel contempt for them. And so I'm trying— not that I would ever, you know, wish something horrible on them, but I do feel contempt and hatred. And so I've been trying to kind of go a Christian route and go, I'm gonna, I'm gonna pray for them, I'm gonna wish them well, I'm going to not— I'm going to turn the other cheek and not let this fill me with evil and hatred. I think that's a lovely thing.

Okay, but finish.

But that's important. I think Christianity at times goes too far, and I'm the living, walking embodiment of this. I'm very culturally Christian with the amount that I flagellate, self-flagellate for my bad thoughts. So I know this better than anyone. Sometimes it goes too far. And it should focus more on behavior than on thoughts. But I'm not going to say that the focus on thoughts doesn't matter because, because figuring out how to direct your thoughts influences your behavior, as you argue in your happiness book, that having that, having gratitude and a grateful mindset is going to make you happier and direct your life in a better way.

Well, this is the, this is the other huge subject. The first one was the end of God, the Bible, and Judeo-Christian values. And this one is about the deeds versus thoughts issue. First of all, let me make clear, there is a thought commandment in the Ten Commandments, do not covet. I do remind people that it says do not covet, not do not lust. Hebrew has two different words. By the way, I looked it up and Jesus did not say whoever lusts after another woman has committed adultery with his heart, but whoever covets another woman. Has committed adultery with his heart. The difference is immense. An entire theology has been built, understandably but erroneously, on a translation rather than on the original. And what is the difference between covet and lust? It's very simple. The 10th Commandment says, do not covet your neighbor's spouse, your neighbor's house, your neighbor's ox, your neighbor's workers. Nobody lusts after their neighbor's house, or their ox, let alone their ox.

Let's hopefully not.

Yes. So the issue isn't lust. The man who lusts— I mean, this is— I know this is its own Pandora's box. I'm okay. C'est la vie. I have to be able to answer to God. Dennis, did you tell the truth or did you hide it for popularity? So that's how I animate. That's how I'm animated. I am much— I trust much more the guy who lusts but knows I will never commit adultery because it violates God's will and it violates my marital vows and it hurts my wife and hurts my marriage and hurts my family. And it is just— you just don't do it. As opposed to the guy who is preoccupied with thinking about not lusting. Between the two, I am more likely to trust the guy who is behaviorally self-controlled than the guy who is thought self-controlled.

Yeah.

Okay, that's so— I may be wrong, but that's— I I believe that deeply in the person who controls their behavior. Look, forgive me, I just want to develop this with one more example. So Alan Estrin is the most self-disciplined human being I know. And I say this with complete admiration. He's extraordinary. Among other things, he runs miles every morning. And, and he eats only healthy food. So when I ask him about the food, for example, so, Alan, do you miss sweets? He goes, Dennis, if I could, I would have an entire apple pie. Not a slice, not a half.

Alan, have it.

Okay.

He's done so much.

So does Alan control his thoughts? No, he lusts after apple pie. Forget the sexual arena, which is filled with emotion and religion and a whole host of things. Let's take food. If you lust after food and don't eat it because you know it's not good for you, Why is that not admirable?

It's very admirable.

Right, exactly. And now you could say, well, isn't the ideal that you don't even lust after apple pie?

Well, that's ridiculous.

Well, that's my point.

Well, okay, I totally hear you. I agree with you entirely. And I think at times Christianity goes too far by policing your thoughts. You're ultimately— your behavior is what should be policed. And I agree with you that, like, I admire I admire an alcoholic for not drinking far more than I admire my friends who do Dry January, right? Because they have— they are thinking about it all the time and they are battling something, and yet they behave in a certain way despite that battle. And that is what makes them very noble. I hear— I totally hear you on that. However, I do think— I, I think that Christianity does go way too far with this, but I think one of their strengths is again the way that they encourage you to direct your thoughts. Not in every arena, but, but especially with, with the kind of the worldview of you're going to have temptation, you're going to have people treat you unfairly, you're going to have people be mean to you, you're going to have challenges, you're going to have to do things that you don't want to do, and you need to be able to overcome that and be the best version of yourself that Christ would want you to be. I just look at that And I know you agree with me on this. And it is so antithetical. In fact, it is literally the reverse negative image of the kind of thinking that leftism encourages. Leftism says, à la Maxine Waters, get in their faces. If you have an enemy or if you have someone with whom you disagree, create a crowd around them, make them feel unwelcome. If you have a temptation, oh, well, part, living life is, fulfilling your— you know, you have a right to be happy. You have a right to feel seen. You have a right to feel heard. If you don't— if you want, you know, if you want that chocolate cake, don't let the fatphobes tell you not to eat it. It's literally the way that Christianity instructs you to think is so the opposite of the way leftism instructs you to think. And for that reason, I really appreciate it.

Look, the number of wonderful people Christianity has made means it must be doing something right. I, it's— so I take that as a given because there are so many wonderful human beings I know personally and know of who are Christian, especially today. The only thing that I would react to is your earlier comment. So for example, pray for your enemies. So that's an interesting comment. So I've discussed this with Christians and I've asked, what, what is it you want me to pray for?

Yep.

And generally the response I got is pray that they change their ways, that they— that pray that they repent, or even pray that what is ultimately good for them happens. But good for them might be incarceration, which I find that's a leap. But the first two, I get it. But for example, my view when Jesus says turn the other cheek, Okay, I explain it, and it's interesting because I will be doing with Jordan Peterson again, uh, the, the four gospels.

Ah, that is so cool.

Yeah, that'll be fascinating.

Really, really cool.

So I have always understood that as micro. In other words, in my life. And by the way, I have I have more or less tried to live that. People in my life who have hurt me, uh, I don't know about turn the other cheek. I don't say now strike me on the other cheek, and I don't even think he meant that. But I, I did not declare war on people in my life, right, who have hurt me. But there is a time to declare war.

Yes.

I— so what do— what should I pray? So I'll ask you, since you raised the issue as something you find very admirable. So should, should we— should the good people of the world, and specifically should Jews, and specifically should Israelis pray for Hamas?

Yes. I did.

And the prayer should be— here's what should the prayer be?

I hope that they wake up to their evil and cease their evil.

Okay. We— so we all want that, right? Okay.

But.

Right. But until they do that, do I have any other prayer?

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Do I have any other prayer?

Of course. I mean, here's the thing. I don't think that is adequate. And one of the criticisms that is just pray for your enemies. One of the criticisms of Christianity that I often hear, and I have to say it is a very legitimate criticism, is that Christianity may not be the best at scaling up. As you just said, on a micro level, It's, and especially in the West when we're, you know, not battling Hamas every day, in the realm of people, you know, writing a nasty comment to you on the internet, people, a friend betraying you, it's a very good framework to deal with those things. But yes, we cannot build a society off of turn the other cheek and love the enemy. We have to build a society off of you prosecute and punish the enemy. You levy consequences on the enemy. You give them a fair trial. You get, you know, you treat them fairly within, you know, the bounds of reason. But you, you don't turn the other cheek. So I hear you on that. But I don't— I think praying for your enemy doesn't mean that you just pray and then you kind of leave it be. I think you can both pray for your enemy and exact consequences. So I think you can both pray for Hamas. Frankly, I don't know. I think it's kind of a futile effort to pray for Hamas because I don't pray that they change, that they repent, that they change.

Right. Do you think that's what Jesus meant? I'm not saying yes or no. I'm just curious.

I think, well, this, you may view this as a swerve of your answer, and I sincerely don't mean it to be, but I was at sincerely, I know you're like, I don't care if it's sincere or not. No, that's funny. I was at, I've been, I've been kind of like religion shopping over the past few months. I'm open with you and I'm open with the audience. About most things, by the way, but on this subject of religion, that I would call myself an ethical monotheist, but I don't really know what kind of religious home I have. And so I'm finding that, and I'm just trying to learn. And I went to a Catholic church because I was baptized as a Catholic, and I spoke to the priest about a situation that I had where someone said very unkind things to me, and it hurt me.

When did you do this?

Oh, this was a few months ago.

Really? Yeah, I didn't know.

I went, I went to Mass with a family friend, and then afterwards I went up to the priest. He baptized me, and I said hello and kind of reintroduced myself. And I've seen him over the years in our town, but I, I asked him for advice on this subject.

So for advice, or were you in a confessional booth?

No, no, I was not in confessional. I've never done confessional. Okay, this was, this was just standing after the, the church service, and I just, I told you—

know what it's called, by the way?

What?

It's a sacrament, you know, of the Catholic Church, but it's not called— it's the Sacrament of Reconciliation.

Yeah. Interesting. I have thoughts on that, by the way, but I digress. So I was, I was talking with the priest and I told him about this situation and he said, predictably, he said, pray for your enemies. And I said, why? And he said, because of what it will do to you. And I thought that was a really interesting answer. Frankly, it kind of surprised me that this Catholic priest was instructing me to kind of do something for others, i.e., pray for them, because of what it would do for me. But to—

oh wait, but you didn't answer my question. Well, maybe I didn't ask this to you now, I asked it earlier. So when the priest said, okay, I have Am I interrupting? Because I have two questions. But if you didn't finish the thought, I'll just—

frankly, bingo, Dennis and Julie, I forgot the original question that you had just asked.

But the point that I'm trying to make is that, well, we are partially asking, what are you praying for when you pray for your enemies? That is one of the issues on the table. I don't know if we—

I am. I, I, I, In that specific case, I prayed for the fact that they would, as I know this sounds very trite, but have their evil and anger that they feel for me and my work to be mitigated and for them to, okay, not be corrupted by such a terrible worldview and way of living.

So the Christians, the Christians, and they were very committed Christians who fought about the Nazis and the Japanese fascists in World War II. So when they— a Christian who stormed Normandy Beach.

Yes.

To kill Nazis.

Mm-hmm.

What did it mean to both kill a Nazi and pray for the Nazi? And it's not a challenge.

But I don't know if— I don't know. And you would— you would know better than I would because you're far more well-versed in scripture than I am. I don't know if it's a binary. I don't know.

I'm not saying it is. That's why I'm asking. But so I'm going to kill you and I pray for you. But what am I praying? So that I go back to what am I praying for? That you convert. But obviously I'm not giving you the chance. I'm killing you.

I think when I think in that situation, the person would pray that this would end and that and that, you know, their, their actions on Normandy Beach would— I don't know if it's like praying for a specific person, but praying for the enemy as in the case of this war and this regime in general?

Can he— can he pray that, you know, oh, God, help me kill as many Nazis as possible to stop the gas chambers and to stop the torture?

I mean, frankly, that's something I would have prayed for.

Right. Okay. So then you're not really praying for the Nazis. You're praying to conquer the Nazis. To kill the Nazis. See, look, I want to make something clear to everybody listening. Long, long ago, I realized that I don't have to share all theology with terrific people, right? This is a really important lesson. I have so imbibed it that it doesn't— it doesn't even faze me. But perhaps for others who— Christians who really respect me, and there are many, thank God, and it's mutual— my theological questions have nothing to do with my assessment of you magnificent people, often, who believe differently than I on this matter. I'm only asking because I want to understand you not you, Julie, you, right, you, these wonderful people in my life. There are people with whom I share theology and I'm not big fans of it, right? Look, I mean, I'll give an example because it's so— I know how big this is in, in, in many American Protestants' lives. They have a real problem with Mormon theology, and my I tell them privately, it doesn't matter. Or at least to me, it doesn't matter. I have a problem with a lot of people's theology, but it doesn't matter because that's not how I assess people even religiously. I assess people religiously by their behavior. And Mormons have made wonderful communities and wonderful families and contributed immensely to this society. Isn't that— that's my bottom line.

Yes. Yes. You know, I hear you. I really do. And that sort of on a bigger scale, what does it mean to pray for, for instance, the Nazi who you are about to slaughter and rightfully slaughter in the case of World War II?

Right.

That's right.

So that's what I'm asking.

Rightful to slaughter Nazis.

And does it conflict with praying that I kill him before he kills me?

Right. I hear you on that. That's— it's— again, I don't think it's a binary that, you know, praying for your enemies means that you don't exact consequences. But I hear you that there's this kind of question of like, what does it mean to pray for Hamas or for, you know, Hitler? Again, I think on a small— on a micro scale, it is a beneficial thing to pray for your enemies or try. And again, this is why I brought up the example of the priest at the Catholic Church who said, when I asked why, for what it will do for you. Again, that answer kind of surprised me because it seems like it's not about the other person, but maybe, maybe it's not about the other person. Maybe it's more so that you don't become like the other person, you know, like, right.

But okay, so there, that, that's not a view I share, right? But I'm wanting, wanting the evil to be conquered, vanquished, and on more than a few occasions killed doesn't make you like them.

But here, here's the thing. We're talking about this on, on a huge scale of Hamas, Nazi, you know, evil. I hear you.

Yes. Oh, on the— I said I— on a personal— it's a separate issue.

How many more? How many more children would speak to their parents if they adopted the pray for your parents?

Right. Well, all right. So there's an interest. So here, this is really interesting. Interesting. So that is correct. And my approach is correct. So what do I— what is my message or wish for children who have alienated their parents from— or alienated themselves from their parents? They don't speak to them because the parents vote the way they don't want or believe things they don't believe in, right? Is, hello, there is a law that one of the Ten Commandments The fundamentals of society is honor your father and mother, and it doesn't have an asterisk, only if you agree with them.

Right.

So—

And it's honor, not love, as you say.

Right. And honor is an act. Honor isn't a feeling.

Right.

There is— right, which is my point. You don't— there is no commandment to love your parents. There is no commandment to have any feeling toward your parents. The only commandment toward parents is behavior.

So I have a little bit of an idea of Judaism and Christianity that I'd like to offer for your and the audience's consideration that I think deals with this point well. I think that Judaism really complements Christianity and Christianity really complements Judaism because I kind of view like in parenting and you, you talk all the time about how teaching your kids self-control is more important than self-esteem, how being a disciplinarian is more important than giving them love, but you do need both. You just, you know, with using the parent analogy, you need to discipline your kids and you need to love them. And if I look at the Old Testament and the New Testament, I kind of look at them as like the two counterparts. The Old Testament is more, here are, here's kind of the harsh rules of life. I think as we were talking about Nazism and what does it mean to pray for the Nazis you're about to slaughter storming Normandy Beach, I thought about the, what is it? You would probably know it by heart, chapter 14 or 15 of Genesis when Abraham bargains God down.

With Sodom and Gomorrah.

Sodom and Gomorrah. Where God is going to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah because it's an evil place. And Abraham says, what if there are 50 righteous people?

What if there are 50 righteous, 40, 30, 20, 10?

And they get that down 10. Dennis Prager.

Yes.

You know, that's a practical— you learn from the Old Testament, okay, there are going to be some cases where some innocent, righteous people are going to have to suffer or, you know, be slaughtered for the greater good of eliminating this evil town. I really love those, those, again, realistic principles in the Old Testament that are outlined. The New Testament, I think, is such a beautiful thing because Although I'm an Old Testament junkie, I love so many of the stories in the Old Testament. There is no story that is more powerful than the story of Christ to me. And the example that it is such a moving, beautiful, powerful story of God loving humanity enough to come down in human form, walk alongside us, suffer alongside us, be treated unjustly, you know, alongside us. To heal the sick, to help the poor. And we need that example. That's why I think they complement each other so nicely, because Christianity can get too grace and mercy and pray and love, and you need the kind of harshness of the Old Testament. But the harshness of the Old Testament needs the grace and mercy and example of Christ. And so I know that religion, you can't cherry-pick. I understand that. And frankly, again, in the spirit of honesty, that's a battle that I'm kind of having right now because is I, when I choose a religion, when I choose a denomination, I don't want to just buy it hook, line, and sinker, but I want to— I'm not just— in other words, I'm not just going to cherry-pick from it. I want to really understand and practice it in its entirety. But if I can cherry-pick for a moment, I do think we can take the pray for your enemies part of Christianity and balance it with the exact The founders of the United States. Yes, they did. It's a very good point.

This is the one Judeo-Christian country that was truly ever founded. These were Christians steeped in the Old Testament. As I've said a thousand times, probably the only thing on the Liberty Bell is from the Torah. Harvard, when in its better days, You had to study Hebrew to get a BA till 1800.

Yale.

Yale.

Yes.

Yale. Yale's insignia is in Hebrew.

I know. So, so is— oh no, it's in Latin.

And this— John Adams said the people who have most civilized humanity are the Hebrews. We— the quotes from the founders with regard to what the Jews have done. Jefferson and, and And Franklin were not even traditional Christians. They didn't believe in the Trinity. They were certainly steeped as cultural Christians. They wanted the Great Seal of the United States to picture, to depict— they even designed it, you could see it on the internet— the Jews leaving Egypt, the Israelites leaving Egypt. The Israelites left Egypt, America leaves Europe. That was the analogy. This, this is— this has been— the Christians of America have largely been Judeo-Christians.

Yes.

That's why Jews— my whole— is another battle of my life. Well, it was battle number one against the secularization of society. I said Jews who thought they'll be more secure the more secular America is, which a lot of Jews have believed were foolish beyond words. The reason Jews have had it uniquely good in America is because the Christians of America were so Judeo in their Christianity.

Yes.

And so, as I put it in my column, which anyone can see, including in Jewish journals, not just in the regular press, is when Christians went to church, when Americans went to church, Jews were more secure. So your cherry-pick is possible. Taking from both is a great idea.

Well, that's why I call myself an ethical monotheist. When people ask me, you know, what religion are you? I go, well, I'm an ethical monotheist because I truly consider myself, at least right now in my life, to be Judeo and Christian.

Right. So you could even go further. I'm an ethical monotheist and Bible-based.

Yes. Well, so let me ask you this question, because again, as I said, I really believe that Judaism and Christianity complement each other, and they're, they're the defects of Christianity I think Judaism makes up for, and the defects of Judaism Christianity makes up for. One of the things that I think is so incredible about Christianity is that when you have nowhere else to go, when you feel like you have really gone down a bad path in life and you have, you know, you've sinned and you feel like you're a bad person and you're defective, you can go and, as the Christians say, lay that at Christ's feet and you can be redeemed. And it's this kind of— it's this amazing, beautiful— it is an amazing thing that, that you can go from the dregs of humanity, and if you, if you believe in Christ and you seek that out According to that faith, like in— I'm thinking in terms of paintings— in Botticelli's Nativity, there's, there's an image of these angels taking men, literally grabbing them and hoisting them up from this ground where demons are trying to grab them. And that's how I view Christianity. Like, you can be being dragged down in the mud and you can be redeemed and saved and forgiven. That is amazing. Because we— if there's one thing about human nature that I've observed is that sometimes when you think, I've, I've, I've done poorly, your instinct is not to go, why don't I make it better? Your instinct is to go, well, I've already messed up. I might as well, you know, really say eff it and continue into the dregs. I mean, I even notice this.

Well, there's no hope for me.

There's no hope for me. I notice this when I eat. I know that's on a really small scale. If I, you know, have a big dessert meal, I'll think, oh God, well, I just ruined my whole diet today, or I just ruined my whole exercise. Well, screw it, I'm gonna go eat another cake, and then I'm gonna have cupcakes. That's, that's kind of the human mindset. Well, I've already done wrong, I might as well just indulge. And Christianity moves you away from that. Is there a counterpart to that in Judaism? Is there a story or a kind of tenet of the theology that expresses that in the same way that Christianity does?

Yes, and I'll give you examples. It's not as immediate or as central perhaps as it is Christianity. I mean, you could literally step forward and accept Christ that afternoon and that happens. And it does, and it does, it changes. I know that people have changed. I was with a cab driver like 35 years ago in some southern city and I love talking to strangers and I was talking to him about his life and he said, ah, you know, he was about 50-something years old and he was way older than me and the, The point he was making was, oh, I led a terrible life. I was drugs and sex and alcohol. I said, and what turned you around? It was Christ. And I believed it. And this Jew knew he was telling me the truth. There was not a doubt in my mind that the man was telling me the truth.

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Has Judaism turned people around? There's no question. But it's, it's sort of a more laborious process. You know, what is it? One of the most famous stories in the Talmud, which is the great book after the Bible in Judaism. So a pagan comes to two different rabbis, Hillel and Shammai, two giants who always disagreed with each other. And he goes, so—

As you say, that's a mitzvah.

Well, it's certainly, I would say it's central to Judaism that you could differ. And both be right in certain ways. Eilu v'eilu divrei Elohim chayim. They're both speaking the words of the living God. That's the motto. It's a beautiful motto. Anyway, so he asks, he goes to Rabbi Shammai and Rabbi Hillel, different homes, and goes, so what, tell me, explain to me Judaism while standing on one foot. And so Shammai actually hits him with his stick and says, what are you kidding? I can't explain Judaism standing on one foot. Get out of here. Just not impressive, I must say. But the Talmud records everything that the people said. Goes to Hillel's house, and Hillel says, sure, I'll tell you. Do not do to others what you don't want done to you, or do not do what is hateful to you, do not do to others. The rest is commentary. Now go and study. It's a very famous 3-part answer. The essence is, ethical behavior. The rest is commentary. Now go and study. It's a great answer for Jews anyway. But in other words, you, you can't do it if you don't study. You can't just change overnight like that. That, that immediacy that I'm talking about, which does happen to people accepting Christ, I have no doubt about about it, like this cab driver. But you're right, that is not the mode of Jewish expression as much. I do want to tell you, though, you— I marvel at you so often, and it brings me incredible joy that you're in my life. As you know, your understanding of that the two religions need each other—

of course—

is very few people Well, a lot of Christians realize it. I don't think as many Jews do, though. I've tried to teach Jews this, this great combination, this Judeo-Christian. There is a rabbi who wrote in the Times of Israel a piece. This is a nonsense term, Judeo-Christian values. By the way, a lot of Christians do that.

I know.

Oh, so there are just as many voices on both sides who don't like that term.

And I just hate it.

Huh?

The libs hate it.

Oh, yeah, of course. Well, they hate it because they hate both.

Yes, they hate both.

Right. But, but it was— by the way, I looked up this rabbi. I always do that. I'm very curious because I'm almost always right when they have a position that I consider truly absurd. They will have absurd positions on everything. Very few people only have one absurd position. To deny that there are Judeo-Christian values is absurd. It's just absurd. There isn't Judeo-Christian theology, but nobody uses that term. But there are Judeo-Christian values. And sure enough, the guy turns out to be this, a big leftist on every single issue, on every, on trans, on global warming, on every, he's consistent along the line. But I'll give you an example you wouldn't know. Of the— of where they— you hinted at it, but unless, you know, you're not as steeped in Judaism, obviously, as I am.

So not yet, right?

You will be. God bless you. And so Judaism is both particular and universal because it's the chosen people. God chose the Jews and so on. But the whole point is that through you, all the families of the earth will be blessed, as God says to Abraham. Judaism is both. Christianity gave up ethnicity, gave up peoplehood. There's no such thing as a Christian people. There was a Jewish people, a Jewish nation, but there's no such thing as a Christian nation, Christian people. There's a Christian religion. And so Judaism needs the universal mission of Christianity, and Christianity needs to be rooted in a people. And I'll give you one dramatic example. Oh, well, I said, there couldn't have been a way you would have thought of this. You have to have lived this as I have. But I'll give you a very dramatic example. I got started in public life speaking for Soviet Jewry because Israel sent me into the Soviet Union when I was 21. I knew Russian and Hebrew and Judaism and so they miraculously, the Foreign Office learned about me through friends in Israel and anyway, I was sent to the Soviet Union for a month. I came back to the United States and began lecturing 3, 4 times a week about the plight of Soviet Jewry. At the time, virtually every synagogue in America had a sign in the front, Save Soviet Jewry. Now here you will find this will— I know you, when you learn, you get excited.

Oh, it's thrilling.

You will find this fascinating. Virtually every synagogue, Reform, Conservative, Orthodox, had a sign, Save Soviet Jewry, in the front of the synagogue. I don't remember a single church that had saved Soviet Christians, even though Christians were hurt more than Jews in the Soviet Union.

It's a very important point.

Yes, it's because there's no Christian peoplehood. So you, you see, the, the point of life— this is true for all of life— you pay a price for, for your blessings. It is a blessing, the universality of Christianity, but a price was paid because Christians don't, generally speaking, don't care about fellow Christians as much as Jews care about fellow Jews.

That's why I like to cherry-pick, which you're—

I said you should.

I know, I know. And, and you're—

yeah, that I did.

Yeah. Yes. And you're— and one of the things, as I often say, I love about the introduction of your Bible commentary is that it's not proselytizing. You say, I'm not trying to make you a Jew. I'm not trying to make you a Christian. What I hope is that you will be an ethical monotheist. You will be someone who—

the God of the Bible, the God of the Torah, is the person or the creature, the being you should follow.

You know, the other day I was on the phone with someone who asked me, who is the religious figure who you most admire? And I thought that was an interesting question. And I went through and I realized that there are many figures in the Old Testament who I admire, but they're not perfect figures. And that's part of what makes them great and real. You know, Noah, for instance, as you often comment, was chosen by God to be saved from the flood because he was the most righteous in his generations. Doesn't mean he was the most righteous person to ever walk walk God's green earth, but he was the most righteous at his time. There are things that I admire about Abraham, but Abraham is not always the most perfect figure. I mean, I know that he had no choice but to sleep with Hagar the slave because his wife was barren.

Well, yeah, well, that concubine was a common thing there. But I mean, look, people have problems with his lying about his relationship to Sarah.

Exactly.

Maybe he was right, maybe he was wrong, but he's not perfect.

I'll give you a controversial one I say controversial, it's only controversial to the religious. The secular listening, the secular person listening to this is going to be like, how is this controversial? But I kind of take issue with Abraham adhering to God or the angel's call to bind Isaac. I don't know if I admire that. That was a test, and I'm not so sure that he did the right thing. Maybe the test was designed for him to say no.

I'm not going to do it. You are, you will not be alone in thinking that, right?

So, um, the point is, when that person asked me this question about who I admire, there were individuals who had actions in the Old Testament who I admired, that I admired. But of course, the, the person that stood out to me as the, as the be-all end-all who I would model myself after is Christ. And again, I think this is where they complement each other. Because religion can't just have perfect figures all the time. It would, it would render religion useless. We can't be perfect. We need to see, we need to see ourselves in the scripture. We need, we need to see barrenness. We need to see temptation. We need to see rage. We need, we need to see that. But also we do need a perfect figure in, in religion who we can model ourselves after. And that's what I think is so great about Christianity. I recently had an experience with Dr. Bob Hamilton. I feel comfortable saying his name, though maybe he wouldn't want me doing it on the air.

Well, the only reason he might not want you is because of Christian sin of pride. So he would feel guilty that he was being praised so highly.

And he especially would.

By both of us.

Dennis Prager.

Yes, I adore him as much as you do.

Well, he, he was at a Shabbat dinner recently, um, one of our Shabbat dinners. It's amazing I call it our Shabbat. I feel kind of wrong saying that, but they're so my— they feel so much like my family.

That's right.

That I, I feel comfortable saying that. Anyway, he and his lovely wife were there, and they have, they have 6 children and probably 50 grandchildren, and they're committed Christians, and they're They are just salt of the earth people. Anyway, Dr. Bob is a pediatrician and he was kind enough to invite me to shadow him for a day at his office. Now people listening may be thinking, why would, what's the reason for that? I have no connection to the medical field, but he just wanted me to learn. And he took me to the NICU unit, the neonatal ICU unit at St. John's Hospital in Santa Monica and another hospital and we looked at these these, you know, like 5-pound premature babies. It was just— we could do a whole Dennis and Julie episode on what I observed there and what I learned. But as we were walking back to his office after seeing those little NICU babies, I asked him, because he's so, he's so loving to everyone, but you just, you really see his, his sense of duty shine through when he's holding these children and trying to care for them. And I said, Dr. Bob, what animates you? What, you know, what motivates you to do what you do? And he said a very simple answer: I try to serve as Christ served.

I have the chills because I know it's true.

It's true.

This man goes to some of the poorest places on earth and does free medical work. And how many people do that?

And it's because— it's because of that example. We need that perfect, glorious example.

No, no, that— it's a— it works. See, that— my question, going back to the beginning, because we're nearing the end: if, if X produces a Bob Hamilton, X must be pretty damn impressive.

Yes.

And that has been my view of so many American Christians. And I always say American because Europe's Christians were less Judeo and less noble. I mean, just, I mean, they forget that, they forget the Holocaust, which was not done by Christians, but it was observed by Christians, let's put it that way. But they killed each other. I mean, Catholics and Protestants slaughtered each other over theology. That's what's really mind-blowing. Yeah, not about ethics, over theology. So, but in America, we've had a very remarkable, again, Judeo-Christian And so a lot of people that I've known would have given his answer. And that's very powerful. And by the way, there are Jews who devote their lives to others and they're animated obviously by something Jewish. But it is interesting, and this— I'm smiling because it, uh, it's a very touchy subject, but I'm okay with that. There is no question that having a human And Christ is human and divine, right? He came as a human, obviously. Is a powerful motivator. And the way I know that, interestingly, is aside from all my Christian friends, is from some of the people I most admire who do incredibly selfless work in Judaism, Chabad. Chabad, these Orthodox Jews who have Chabad houses all over the world. I mean, literally all over the world. I visited Chabad houses in Japan and Cambodia and Morocco, and they have one in Congo. I mean, they're all, they're in all 50 states. They're everywhere. They've even opened the Chabad in Gaza, which is just absurd.

I'm sorry, come again?

Yes, I know.

Chabad in Gaza?

Yeah, yeah. I just saw the sign I mean, it's half serious and half light, but they wanted to service the troops with for Hanukkah. I mean, it—

Wow.

But they are animated not only by the Torah, not only by Judaism, not only by Jewish law, but by their rebbe, the great Rabbi Menachem Schneerson, the Lubavitcher Rebbe, the the great, probably the greatest Jewish figure of the 20th century. Now obviously he's not Jesus in Judaism or for them, but he has a status that is above the normal human for them. And I see how animating he is. These people at the age of 25, a young Chabad guy and his wife because you can't go as a single guy, you have to be married, will open up a Chabad house, let us say, in Pierre, South Dakota, where there are virtually no Jews, or even more amazing, in Cambodia. And they will live there till they die. I mean, that is an incredible commitment to leave the world, you know, completely and just serve people in that area. But the animation is not just God, it is not just the Torah, it is the Rebbe, that, that figure.

Yes.

So I, I get it when you, when you, when he says, I want to serve like Christ served, quoting Bob Hamilton, that is a powerful force.

Well, I'll leave, I'll, again, I know that we're, we're close to the end, but I'll leave you with two thoughts. First, as you know, and many of the listeners know, I have a sister with very severe autism who has lived in group homes for about a decade now. She lived at home and then she went to a school in Massachusetts and then she's lived in group homes for about a decade. And she, we've had horrible problems with her care and people have asked me, Is there a theme, like with what constitutes a good caretaker and the bad caretaker? And it's really not so much a divide by race or by gender. It's a divide between religious and non-religious.

That's right.

The best, best, best caretaker, and it is who serves my sister, is a devoutly committed Christian.

Yes, I would like to ask people, if you had a sister like Julie does, Yep. Who could not in any way defend herself, can't even complain, doesn't speak. And you, you know, I have, I have two caretakers for you. What is it? One is completely irreligious and one goes to church every Sunday. Would you flip a coin?

Yes. Honestly, I should use it and you should use it.

Well, you should especially. Well, because you have the answer.

Yes. That's the first thing. And the second thing is, when Dr. Bob said that to me, it just hit me like a lightning bolt. And I thought, you know, because as I've said on the show, I don't quite know what I believe. I believe in Christ and that he walked this earth and was a remarkable human being. I don't know if I believe in the resurrection. I don't know. I'm truly kind of in question mark land, and I'm not afraid to admit that. But I thought, you know what, Julie, you don't need to believe in Christ right now to learn from Christ and to try to embody his, his actions. And so I went home after he said that, and I started reading more of the New Testament and reading the passages of him touching the sick and healing the sick. It made such an impression on me. And 2 days ago, I was driving in Los Angeles and I saw this this mother and a daughter, 4-year-old daughter, by the side of the freeway. They were homeless, holding up a sign asking for help. And I thought, serve them as Christ would serve them. And this is someone who doesn't, again, know if they believe in the, in the divinity of Christ. But I, I said to myself, serve them as Christ would serve them. And I went home and I got some leftover food and I made a care package. I got in my car, I parked it, I drove over there And it was nighttime and I was a little afraid because this is a freeway underpass and there are these tents and there are kind of weird drugged-out people walking around. But this poor mother and her little girl were sitting there and I was afraid and I just kept saying to myself, "Serve as Christ would serve, serve as Christ would serve." And I walked up to them and I gave them food and I put my hands on them and I rubbed the woman's back and I wanted to go, "I'm touching you. I care for you. You're a human being. I'm not going to drop the food and run away." I asked for their names. I, you know, got down, crouched, and talked with the little girl. And she— they were both so grateful. That little girl, she was so excited. She gave me this big smile. And she is— she has terrible teeth. And I went back today and I got them a toothbrush and toothpaste. But the whole— the point of my telling this story is what gave me the courage and the conviction to do that was to serve as Christ serves. And the final thing I will say is shame on anyone, especially on the left, who disparages this. Shame on them. They can disagree with it. They can highlight parts of it that don't make sense to them. They can disparage certain, you know, actions in Christianity. You can criticize it, but shame on the people who call this an antiquated, stupid religion. Shame on them. The amount of good that it has done in the world, the amount that it inspires people, to go outside of their boundaries in service of others. That is never something to be disparaged. Goodbye. Shalom. It made me so angry that people would try to tear down and smear something that has produced such goodness. You don't have to agree with it, but don't you dare try to knock this down. You should be encouraging it in other people. Okay, now I'm really done, though I could go on and on.

That was beautiful.

Well, you often say the most beautiful ending, so I'm glad to have done that today. Do you notice that? You have these endings in Dennis and Julie that are mic drop moments. You can reach me at julie@julie-hartman.com. I love hearing from you, especially when you start the email with shalom and end it with shalom. And you can follow me on Instagram and Twitter @julierhartman. You can follow Dennis on Instagram @TheDennisPrager. And what's your Twitter? Is it @DennisPrager?

Follow me at DennisPrager.com is the best place.

Yes, DennisPrager.com. And we thank you so much for being here. Merry almost Christmas. Happy Hanukkah. And let's serve as Christ served.

Bye, everybody.

Shalom.

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