Lessons From the Past

Your dog and a stranger are drowning. You can only save one. Who do you choose? Dennis Prager says your answer reveals everything about how you define right and wrong. In his new book, If There Is No God, Prager exposes the danger of emotion-based morality and why without objective truth, society descends into chaos. This isn't a religious book. It's a rational case for moral clarity in a confused age. If There Is No God from Dennis Prager. Order now at PragerStore.com.

Hello everyone, and welcome to Dennis and Julie, usually hosted by Dennis Prager and Julie Hartmann. Although again this week we are minus one here on Dennis and Julie as Dennis continues to recover from his back injury. He's had surgery. The surgeries have seemed to, to have gone well, but this is going to be a long haul. As I indicated last week, this is not going to be a back next week kind of situation. And all of us are just so hoping that he'll be back in front of this microphone sooner rather than later. And I know I've said it before, but I want to say it again. Thank you so much for your lovely messages, both on the comments of the last video and also in my inbox at julie@julie-hartman.com. They are so moving, and I know that Dennis will really appreciate them. And as we talked about last week, I very much believe in the healing power of prayer, as God wants to interact with our free will and have us be active participants in creation. So please, please, please do not stop praying for him. Please, he needs it so much right now. You know, before we get to our highlights for this week, I want to tell you that this is a very special week in that Dennis's latest edition of his Torah commentary, The Book of Numbers: God and Man in the Wilderness, is released. The Book of Numbers, you may not know, has a talking donkey in it. And I just want to tell you for a few moments what the Rational Bible Series has done for me. Many people think that Dennis's primary contribution to my life has been political. But that is actually not true. His primary contribution in my life has been spiritual. When I was in college, I was a sophomore. I was sent home due to the COVID lockdowns, and I was just kind of wasting away in my childhood bedroom. I really felt for the first time in my life, and I didn't grow up with religion, as many of you Dennis and Julie listeners know, I felt for the first time in my life a deep urge to read the Bible. I thought, well, billions of people believe in this. This is the basis of our civilization, something I probably ought to know. And truly through divine providence, I honest to God believe that God had a hand in this. I encountered Dennis's work and it was so disarming to me because it wasn't proselytizing. It wasn't overly cloaked in religious language. In the introduction of the Torah commentary, Dennis says, I'm not trying to make you a Jew. I'm not trying to make you a Christian. I'm trying to make you someone who sees that this book has infinite wisdom. And it is because of this book that I call my show timeless, truly, because what I discovered there is that thousands of years ago, when this book was written or revealed divinely, the insights into human nature, the instruction that this provides for our everyday life is as relevant then as it is now, or now as it is then. And there are just some eternal universal truths, timeless truths, which I believe we ought to pay attention to. I remember going in the first few pages of the book and Dennis Prager explained things that are such treasures. I can't endorse this book enough. And by the way, no one has asked me to. I'm giving this push because I just— it just changed my life more than you can believe. I remember reading the Cain and Abel story And Dennis, with his remarkable, unparalleled knowledge of Hebrew, said that the translation in one of the verses is God says to Cain, you killed the bloods of Abel. And Dennis, in his beautifully insightful way, said, now, why would God put bloods as plural? Abel is just one person. And Dennis said, that the reason that he thinks God did that is to indicate that Cain didn't just kill Abel, he killed every single person, every generation who would have come from Abel and now will not. And that revealed to me, again, not an overly religious way, and actually a secular and apropos of the title of the book, a very rational way, the infinite preciousness of human life. I also remember in those early pages, the line that Dennis highlights, where God says to Cain, "The urge towards evil is within you, yet you have the power to master it." And I really believe that that is the thesis statement of conservatism. And I believe that is the thesis statement of the United States, that you determine your own destiny. I could go on and on about this book. And I am telling you, when sometimes when people say Bible commentary, they don't think it would be the most riveting thing. Dennis makes it riveting. Most of the book is in bullet points. He once said to me, I work hard so the reader doesn't have to. His analysis is like lean meat. He has this way of extracting from the text the very wisdom that you need to know and making it so understandable and so riveting to you. And so as a act of generosity to Dennis, and as a favor to yourself, please do order this book. I know that nothing, truly nothing, would make him happier as he is recovering than to see this book do well. So thank you so much in advance for doing so, and I tell you, you're doing yourself the biggest favor by ordering it. Now, this week again, you know, we're in, in the spirit of full honesty, figuring out how we're going to do Dennis and Julie without a particularly important part of this show. But for now, we're gonna go down memory lane and continue to play some clips that stick out to me as some of the most memorable of Dennis and Julie. And we've picked 3, but the first one I think you'll get a kick out of seeing. This is from one of our earliest episodes, and I'm in my dorm room in college. I would go into the hallway and yell out to my roommates, Be quiet for an hour. I'm going on with Dennis. And I would stack my microphone up on my school books. I think I had Alexis de Tocqueville's Democracy in America and the Federalist Papers. Pretty good books for Dennis and Julie, I might say. And I had this rinky-dink little microphone and I threw all my laundry off to the side so that you couldn't see it. And those were just the most magnificent days. I couldn't believe that this guy whose work I had become so enthralled with, whose Torah commentary made me believe in God, whose book on America made me love and appreciate my country in a way I hadn't before. I couldn't believe that I had a show with this guy. So I hope that you enjoy this first clip as well as the subsequent two, and you know that you can always email me at julie@julie-hartman.com.

I like this opening music. Hi everybody, Dennis Prager, the Dennis and Julie Podcast. Dennis Prager, Julie Hartman, and we got a big announcement, so take it away, Julie.

We do have a big announcement. Well, first of all, the big announcement is that I'm graduating from college in a week from today. I will not lie to you, Dennis, and to our viewers, that there were some tears shed before I came on this podcast today.

Really?

Yes, there were.

You know what, before the big announcement—

yes, there is another one, by the way.

I— another announcement.

Yes, this is the one that's happening.

But so I want to, I want to just dwell on that for a moment. The tear, tear, the, the sort of bittersweet tears of graduating and leaving friends and so on. Is that what you're referring to?

Yes, it's mainly about my friends.

Well, that makes sense. How many— I know it sounds a little odd task, but I am curious— how many friends would would you say you made at school?

At school, close friends, I would say about 6 or 7.

That's a big deal.

Totally.

So I'll ask you another question then, in light of that, and I, I have no idea what you'll say, but my assumption is that they don't all share your, your views on life.

Oh, definitely they do not. Many of them don't.

So this is a very nice thing to hear, actually, and it's because it's a big problem in a lot of people's lives where friendships of decades are lost, and even, even family members are alienated because of political, social, moral differences.

How do you explain you and your friends Well, look, let me just start off by saying I have certainly suffered some losses since I've become conservative and been publicly conservative. I have lost several friends. So that has definitely happened to me. But what I will say about these friends now, as I mean, maybe this sounds self-impressed to say, but I'm a really good friend. And I think that my friends just see that. They see that I love them. They see that I'm completely supportive of them. And again, in the spirit of full honesty, honesty, Dennis, women are competitive with one another. Not every woman wishes another woman well. That's just a little secret I'll let you in on. You probably already know that, but let me tell you, as a woman, it's very, very common that we're competitive with one another. And I really, really try as a friend to be supportive and look out for them and be in their corner. And I think my friends see that, and they overlook the fact that we have disagreements.

These are— I'm very happy I asked you about this. That's a very— you just gave me a topic for a male-female hour: women's competitiveness. See, men are known for competing, but we don't take it personally. I think that's the difference, right? So, you know, the guy beat me up, or the guy won, okay. I thought it's like in hockey at the end of the playoffs. They bang each other senseless into the boards and fall on each other and sometimes fight, and then they line up and shake each other's hands. Sometimes they hug.

I know.

That's male.

Yes. Women don't be beat each other up, but we beat each other up with our words, right?

And then— and don't hug after it.

That's the point. And, you know, I just said what I think draws my friends to me. What draws me to my friends, first of all, they're also great friends, and I see that first and foremost. And second of all, you know, again, maybe this sounds self-impressed to say, or maybe this sounds like something I would want to think, but I do think that they are drawn to my points of view because it's, first of all, it's very unique on this campus. I don't think I've really encountered many other people who think the way that I do or who are open about it. And I think I really do have this, even though I would say overall, unfortunately, I'm a bit of a pessimist. I do have an optimistic view that if you are speaking the truth and you are being bold and brave and open about your values, I think people are drawn to that. And I've seen that with my friendships, whether or not they always overtly admit it. I think they're drawn to it. What do you think about that, Dennis?

Can I back up? Well, I am thinking about that. So I have a few thoughts. First, it's a credit to you because you're very strong, and we'll come to that because of your senior class speech that you gave. You're very strong. You're— look, you wrote an article that the average student at Harvard is somewhat of a sheep, and that was in the Wall Street Journal. I mean, you would think that that would have alienated your friends, but it's hard to be alienated from you. You're a kind human being. Forget the brains and the strength and all that. You're just a good, good human being. It's part of why I'm drawn to you. So I think that that's a credit to you, but I think there's another factor as well. Not but, and I think there's another factor as well. They will be able, once they graduate, to associate only with people with whom they agree. At college, You're sort of stuck with each other, right? But once you leave the cocoon, you will really enter a bigger cocoon, or, or even I should say a more constricted cocoon. Then they will choose friends with whom they agree. So this was their last opportunity to have a conservative friend.

Yes. And, you know, sometimes I, when I said that point about how people are drawn to bravery and they're drawn to openness, you know, I think about, I remember I was going to say I remember when I was little, but this still happens to me. You know, when you're in a conversation or a fight with your mom and your mom is saying something to you and you don't want to admit that she's right, but you know that it's true and it leaves an impression on you even though you would never say it. Sometimes I get that impression with my friends. Sometimes when I'm being so open, I mean, it's a nice segue into the senior speech because I gave this old senior speech about anti-Americanism. And I talked about how we members of Harvard University and we Americans have shirked our responsibility as the most privileged cohort on earth by undermining the system that we've benefited from. Anyways, I gave this old senior speech and some of my close friends were giving me a hard time for it. And I remember this moment just really explaining to them and being so open and forthcoming with my beliefs. And I could just see it in their eyes, they sort of got it. And I want to tell people, especially people my age, I want to encourage people, you will make an impression on people even if they will never admit it. I really believe the most powerful thing that you can do in life, the most lasting thing you can give to a person— you can give them money, you can give them opportunity, but the thing that will stick with them the longest is the power of your example. And that's what I try to do. I try to be a good example. And I, again, maybe I would just like to think this, but I really, really do believe it influences people.

There's no doubt about it.

Right.

Oh, so Sean wants to know, should we play your speech? So it's an interesting question. Hey, what is it, 8 minutes? 6? Is that right, Jules? It is.

We can also play excerpts too, or I can—

Do we have excerpts? Do we have prepared excerpts? All right, we'll start and stop. So explain the circumstances, why you were even— how many were asked, why you were asked to give a talk representing the senior class at Harvard.

Sure. So there is this tradition at Harvard where— so let me start off by saying that there are 12 upperclassmen houses. So freshman year you live in Harvard Yard, and then you're assorted for your remaining 3 years into one of 12 upperclassmen houses. And Harvard has this tradition when you're graduating, that they select a member of each of the 12 upperclassmen houses to deliver a 5-minute speech at Memorial Church, which is the church in Harvard Yard. Every morning they have these morning prayer exercises, and in the month of May you are assigned to a day. And because I'm in Winthrop House, one of the upperclassmen houses, I'm the representative for Winthrop.

Who, who, who determined that you would be?

My faculty dean. So each house has a pair of faculty deans, and they sent out this email saying, you know, if you'd like to give a speech, um, they said, you know, you can give it really on anything. I remember this line in the speech: nothing is too trivial, nothing is too profound. And I wrote to them, and I wrote this really long email saying how much I wanted to talk about it. I said in the email, actually, I really don't remember what I wrote. I said that I didn't have a definitive topic in mind, but I love public speaking and I really wanted the opportunity to do it.

All right.

So they didn't know I would give a speech like this.

To Harvard's credit then, and I just want to be fair, but tell me if I'm right, I assume they knew you're conservative and still chose you.

Right. Well, I don't know because this email, I mean, I was selected in March. I remember I was in Israel when I got the email. So that's just to say this was a long time ago. I can pull up the email, but I wrote to them and I expressed my interest, but I did not say that I was going to give a conservative speech.

Right. But still, you're right. And wasn't your Wall Street Journal article already printed?

It was already printed. Yes. So, yes, kudos to them.

Yes, kudos to them. I don't think this would have happened at Princeton or Yale or Penn, to be honest. If you're still waiting to buy gold, sitting on the sidelines might cost you precious gains. This is Dennis Prager for AMFED Coin and Bullion. That's my choice for precious metals. The current economic climate could make buying gold a very desirable safe haven commodity. The government's overprinting of money, the fluctuation of interest rates, and high inflation. Can all impact the value of gold, and it's why you should seriously consider buying now. I've been working with AmFed Coin and Bullion's owner Nick Grovich for years. Glad that I jumped into the precious metals market when I did, but it's never too late. Nick's been in the industry for over 42 years, and he's proud of providing transparency and fair pricing to build long-term relationships. Nick and his team have my back, and they will have yours. They recommend what's in my best interest, not theirs, and I never worry about hidden commissions or huge markups. If you're interested in buying or selling, call AmFed Coin and Bullion for a free coin performance review. 800-221-7694. AmericanFederal.com. AmericanFederal.com.

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I mean, I'm reading a book. I'm reading Frederick Douglass's autobiography.

Oh, good for you.

It is riveting, riveting. And he describes without even— without terrible hostility or anger, and I think he was ultimately a religious Christian, but he describes how men would go to church on Sunday be devout and pray, and then whip a slave bloody? Now, this is— what I'm saying has no hostility to Christians, because the abolitionists were all Christians. So here is a fascinating question: if the abolitionists were Christians and the whippers were Christian, what is Christianity? Say, you could ask that about any religion. I'm just picking on the dominant religion of the Western world. I've always wondered, I truly have always wondered how you go to church and then whip a slave, or even own one, but especially whip one. And I don't have a good answer.

What do you think the answer is?

Well, I'll make it even harder. How do you justify as a Christian or a Jew, but Jews were so small they're irrelevant to this question, how do you, how did a Christian justify kidnapping blacks and transporting them as slaves when the, first of all, the Bible forbids that very act. You cannot kidnap people and sell them. It's actually, it's a capital offense in the Torah. So, and the Torah is part of the Christian Bible. I mean, it's the first 5 books. Do not steal, the 8th commandment of the 10 Commandments. Always in religious life from the ancient world was understood you cannot steal people. It is also you cannot steal property, but it is first and foremost you cannot steal people. How did any Christian justify stealing blacks? And I don't— what is my answer? How did the guys on the way to the Crusades massacre tens of thousands of Jews? I mean, including babies. If the only The only antidote is, I believe, emphasizing every single day by every single pastor and rabbi and priest: God most wants you to be good. As soon as you veer from that path, a lot of bad can happen.

Yes. And I don't go to church very often. I want to, and I should, but When I do go to church, I notice that the words salvation and damnation are rarely, if at all, said in modern churches. And I don't go to some hippie-dippy, you know, pride flag, BLM flag churches. It would make more sense if I went to those kinds, but I go to what I consider to be conservative Catholic, sometimes Protestant churches. I was raised at least nominally as a Catholic, so that's why I tend to go to Catholic churches. But you rarely hear those words salvation and damnation. And there's another example which you may find to be unrelated, but I'll explain why it is. I recently on Timeless did a show on funerals, uh, different religious practices with, um, burying. And then I made it a general conversation of what is proper funeral etiquette. I did a show on weddings too, that, that's what started this because people really enjoyed my show on weddings and how no longer is a wedding a sacred transformation of a relationship. Now it's a party. And I talked about why are some, Brides opting to not wear white dresses? Why are some bridesmaids wearing different dresses? Why does this, you know, why are religious ceremonies going down? Anyway, so I did this show on funerals, and one of the things that I found out was, in talking about how funeral services have changed, is that people tend not to refer to them as funerals anymore. They're now called celebrations of life. There was one other term I'm forgetting, but it was something, it was something positive as opposed to a funeral. And I think there's a correlation here. You know, you don't hear salvation and damnation in churches. In funerals, there's the spin. And it's that we're running away from the harsh reality that evil exists and that death exists and that things that are uncomfortable exist. And to your point, we need to make the entire discussion about good and evil. Evil. And I find that modern society is so— we're so afraid of confronting things that are uncomfortable. That's why I think in churches they don't want to say the word damnation because they consider that to be too aggressive. No, the job of a church is to talk about salvation or damnation. That is what Christianity is fundamentally about, those two things. We can't whitewash that, right?

But that's not the same. You're right, but it's not the same as good and evil.

You're right, it's not, but I think this is a kind of an opportunity for—

But you're right, they're avoiding tough talk.

They're avoiding tough talk, and I think it goes down to they're avoiding the existence of evil. They're avoiding talking about damnation. If you don't behave well, if you are evil, you will be punished.

They're avoiding individuals. That's why I want, yes, I love your example with the funeral. Celebration of life, no, they died.

They died, like we can—

We can celebrate their life anytime we want.

Yes.

But this is a funeral.

It's running away from reality.

I know in Judaism, we— every funeral I've attended, I am one of those, as everybody else is, where we actually lift the shovel and pour dirt on the coffin.

I have to tell you, I said in my episode, thanks to Dennis Prager, I have rabbis on speed dial. And I called one of your— now one of my rabbi friends, and he wrote his rabbinic thesis on Jewish burial practices. It is incredibly moving.

Really, well, shoveling, you really confront it.

And yes, and another thing that Jews do in burial practices is that from the time that the coffin leaves the synagogue or wherever the service is being held and then going to the site at which it's going to be buried at the cemetery, you stop 7 times and you say a prayer. And Rabbi Woznika told me it's because you want to indicate that you're not rushing. To bury the dead. And when you shovel the dirt, you turn over the shovel the first time you do it to signify reluctance. That's understanding the gravity of the situation and honoring the deceased. What I learned about modern funerals, you call them celebrations of life. It's customary now for a large portion of funerals to not have attendants wear all black. A lot of funerals are now very casual.

Really?

Yes. I think I read something like 33% of funerals now in the United States, you don't wear black.

The non-confrontation with tough stuff is a big part of modern life. I'll give you an example from translations of the Bible. It says constantly, fear God. Overwhelmingly, the translators, modern translators say revere God. And the biggest example is the law in Exodus. A man shall fear his mother and father. And nobody, almost nobody translates it that way. They do revere. Revere. Revere. It means fear. There are two beings we're supposed to fear: God and our parents.

I love that. And I love, I love that being a God-fearing person is a moral term.

It was. That's correct. Yes, exactly. The non-confrontation with the difficult is— look, the ultimate— I mean, this is what I call the feminization of society. So you can't win a baseball game with young kids by more than a certain number of runs because it humiliates the kids who lost by too many runs.

Mm-hmm. Well, I know nonsense is that at the Thomas Jefferson—

if I lose 15-nothing, I lose, or 25-nothing in a baseball game, then I have to deal with it.

When I played water polo, we played against this high school which had a— first of all, it was 3 or 4 times the size of my high school. So bigger pool of players, that might be good. And they had a program longer than ours anyway. They kicked our butts. We lost 36 to nothing. And I remember being in the pool and they were ruthless. Like, once you got to 20, yeah, maybe you can hit the— and they just did it to, to— right, fine, stick a finger in her eye. And you know what, there were, there were players after who were really upset and parents after who were really upset. And I remember being in high school thinking, I'm really glad this happened to me. I'm glad I felt that humiliation. Of course, this is making me a stronger person. Anyway, this is life. Life is not going to stop at 20 goals scored on you. Sometimes life's going to keep going. Yes, 25, 30, 35, right? Life is relentless.

Hello, life.

It's— it— I viewed it as an allegory for life.

Totally.

So I didn't mean to—

no, no, go ahead.

One of the subjects that I wanted to discuss today—

oh, wait a minute, wait, wait, wait. So this— I just want to say this theme is really important, the non-confrontation with different— I'll give you another translation, by the way. It says, do not follow— in Deuteronomy again— do not follow— I got to translate from the Hebrew, sorry— do not follow your eyes or your hearts. And the translations are, after which you go astray. You know what the Hebrew says?

What?

Do not follow your eyes or your hearts, after which you whore yourself. Prostitute yourself.

There are so many people who prostitute themselves, of course, literally.

But nobody translated correctly, like, don't fear about fearing your parents. There, there's just a non-confrontation. The whole denial of male-female differences was, I don't want to confront the unpleasant reality that men are different from me.

I was reading your Torah commentary this morning, A, for fun, and B, in anticipation of this episode. Your command of Hebrew is one of the things that makes this commentary so because when the consequences— some say the punishment, you say the consequences— were levied to Adam and Eve after they ate from the tree, God— the word for naked, like their knowledge that they were naked, you say is different from the earlier word of naked, and that in that it reflects this erotic aspect of sexual nature, the new Hebrew word that was used in that instance of naked. And I bet, you know, that's translated. I bet, I mean, I know it is translated into English and doesn't account for that erotic meaning because people want to run away from that. People, that, that's, that's too off limits. You have really made me see, and I can't thank you enough for it, you have made me see that the central issue of our time and of any time is that people don't want to confront or understand the existence of evil. That is what animates everything. It's what animates interpersonal issues. Yes, political issues, everything.

Well, that's why you're so special to me, among many other reasons, I might add. But that you get it. You truly get it. Most people don't get it. It's not a condemnation of them. It's just a fact. And this is the issue.

It is the issue.

There are only two races, and that's why decent and the indecent.

And that's why we're conservative. People think that we, oh, we just like lower taxes. And there are, by the way, there are some conservatives who only vote Republican because of fiscal policy or because, and I don't, I actually don't like those conservatives even though they vote the way that I want them to vote. I think they give a bad name to conservatism. The reason why you and I are conservative is because fundamentally we believe that conservative principles are more in accordance with bringing about good and combating evil. For, for us, it's about good and evil, not about policy. Bingo.

Well, let me, let me defend, let me defend the people who only vote Republican or conservative because of lower taxes.

I mean, I get it.

Low. No, no, no, no. Not just get it. I'll tell you why it's morally good.

Mm-hmm.

Because lower taxes means smaller government and smaller government means less evil, period. End of issue.

Totally. But that's not the reason why they're voting.

It doesn't matter.

You're right.

Since I only judge behavior and not intentions, I don't give a damn.

Oh, interesting. Yeah. Well, we've— we had that whole discussion on this.

Oh, it is so big.

No, I mean, of course I love people that vote Republican. I don't care why.

No, no, no. But they're doing good.

Yeah. Yeah.

Smaller government means less genocide, less corruption, less ability to arrest people because of political reasons like we're doing in America for the first time in our history.

You know, I would say, and some may believe this is an outrageous comment, but I don't think so. I would say that there's a large contingent of people in my age group who would even deny that evil exists. They may say, well, they may say that, oh, they have accidents, transphobia, right? But I think it would more— I'm not explaining myself very well, but I think they would more talk about it like from a societal oppressive standpoint, like circumstances are not good and lead people to do bad. In other words, they won't acknowledge that outside of any external difficulties—

Right, but it is ironic. They do believe that their opponents are evil.

Well, yes, absolutely. That's right.

Yes. They don't believe that murderers are evil because murderers are most of the time because of poverty or racism. But if you believe that the police should be strong or you believe— oh, better— you believe in the nuclear family as the ideal, a man and a woman married and then having children. If that's your ideal, you're a hater.

Once you see life from this perspective of good and evil, it's like a light switch has been turned on in a dark room and everything makes sense. And so the other day there was I think it was this shooting by this white guy shot 3 Black people.

Correct.

And I had a relative, right? Or no, sorry, it wasn't that shooting. It was a school shooting because my relative blamed that one on white supremacy. But anyway, it was a school shooting and my relative wrote me a text saying, F the Second Amendment. And now that I see the world through this good and evil perspective, I realize that blaming gun violence on the Second Amendment and I want to put a little asterisk and say, I think there are legitimate— I don't know if I necessarily believe with them, but I totally recognize that there are legitimate arguments saying people ought not to have certain, you know, high-caliber weapons. I get that. But when you see gun violence and your instinct is to say, "F the Second Amendment," you are not confronting the real evil. It's not the gun. It's the person who pulled the trigger. You are, you are, wittingly or not, giving a pass to that. We should— our focus needs to be on that crazy, deranged, evil individual, not on the weapon that they happen to use, which, by the way, even if the Second Amendment didn't exist, we live in this time now where you can 3D print a weapon, or you can go in and stab people or taser, you know. It's like, why are we focusing on the— that is a running away from the existence of evil.

I have said all of my life, you may not know of this book, but it was a, it was a major, major book, I guess. Was it written in the '60s? Uh, The Denial of Death by Ernest Becker.

Yeah, I need to buy that book.

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I was at a, what was the most recent Jewish holiday? Was it Rosh Hashanah?

No, Sukkot.

Okay, well, I wasn't at— I think this was, yeah, this was a few months ago, but I was at a Rosh Hashanah dinner at a, one of my friends' moms invited me to their, what do you call it, Seder?

That's the Seder. That's Passover.

Okay, sorry.

No, no, Rosh Hashanah meal, yeah.

Yeah, Rosh Hashanah meal. And their family is liberal. They know I'm conservative. They're very kind to me. Which I very much appreciate, but they had many dinner guests and all of them were left-wing Democrats. And the whole, you know, the entire dinner conversation was about Trump is evil and, you know, thank God that there are certain, you know, Democrat leaders. Did you speak up? I did. But the point was there were times in the dinner when I was angry. This is the comment I have to leftists. I'm going on a tangent, but it's relevant to this. Sometimes when people say to me, you know, I'm repulsed by your beliefs, or often on the internet, they don't have the courage to say it in person. My response to them is, as repulsed and reviled as you are by my beliefs, I can promise you I am just as repulsed and reviled by yours. But I actually have manners and I'm not going to troll you on the internet or resort to ad hominem attacks. I'm going to argue based on the merits of my positions. But I just wanna make that clear. We conservatives are always so much on the defensive because we're having the vitriol spewed at us. We are just as repulsed by them as they are by us. But we actually have manners.

So, so, right. They're shocked to find out that we dislike Biden as much as they dislike Trump.

But we don't, we don't make that clear. And I'm not saying that we should resort to their pettiness, but I think that in a dignified way, we need to remind them of that, that it's not just one way because we're always so much on defense. But anyway, At this Rosh Hashanah dinner, there were times when I was very uncomfortable where, you know, one of them at the dinner was talking about gender-affirming care. And I think gender-affirming care, especially for minors, is one of the moral atrocities of our time. And so I'm just trying to paint a picture, especially for leftists listening, that again, I was uncomfortable by things that they were saying, as they would have been if I were talking about my conservatism. But you know what I realized? I'm a guest in someone's home. When I am stepping into someone's home, it's their rules. I knew what I was getting into. They're liberal. They have every right in their home to talk about every liberal left-wing issue to their heart's desire. And if I agree to come and if I'm a good guest, I shut up.

So I hear you.

Or if I challenge—

this is a very interesting discussion in and of itself. So you are a regular guest at the Shabbat dinner that I attend virtually every Friday night. And virtually the whole crew is conservative, which is rare for Jews, but it is the case. I want you to know this. This you'll find of interest in light of what you just said. If I knew that someone of the left were attending the dinner, I would ask the group not to talk politics. I would want them to feel good and comfortable.

Totally. I do.

I mean, so no, no, you were saying it's their home. They could talk about whatever they want. That is, that is a very fair statement. But I'm giving an example of our home. It's sort of like my home because, you know, I'm sort of the inviter of, of a lot of the people who come. But I, I don't want to subject, especially not because just of the comfort issue, especially because of the number issue. There are a dozen of us and one of them.

Right.

And it's not— it's not right.

Well, you have manners. And again, the definition of manners is making other people feel comfortable.

That's right.

And when I was at that Rosh Hashanah dinner, again, there were— there were most of the people there didn't know me. I didn't know them. And they said to me, oh, Julie, what do you do? And by the way, I just want to make something clear. I am very proud of what I do. I never hide it.

Good. So why did you say—

Well, I actually— that I'm actually a little dishonest when I say I never hide it. I never— I never want to hide it. But there are times when I know what— how to package it differently. And so at this dinner, I said I work in media.

All right. And that's all you said.

And they go, oh, what kind? And I said, you know, political talk radio.

And that's— that was it.

And they moved on.

I— it's painful to me that you didn't say, among other things, I do a podcast with Dennis Prager.

But you know why I didn't do that?

Because it would have ruined their meal.

It would have. And I didn't. That's why I didn't.

They would have lost their appetite. Probably left-wing Jews do not have pictures of me in their home.

Well, you know what's funny, Dennis? Oh, God. I want to remember what's funny. Bingo! We have Dennis and Julie Bingo, and one of them is whenever we forget something. Damn, I just forgot my point. Oh God, I'm here. And we're—

don't blame me.

Well, I'm not blaming you. I'm just saying it happens to you too.

Of course, happens to everybody.

For those who don't have Dennis and Julie Bingo, you got to get it. Um, damn, what was it? It was funny.

Well, wait, the, the point was about why you didn't mention that you have a podcast with me.

Yeah.

So was it— it'll come to you.

It'll come back. But, oh, but you know, this is not— this is not the point, but this is not the thing that I'm remembering. But my point was the reason why I didn't do that was because I knew it would make the people at the table uncomfortable. And it's not that I'm ashamed of what I do, but I know—

I know that. Well, that's interesting.

I didn't really— for the host sake. I didn't want to— for her sake, I didn't want someone to go, oh, well, you are good.

My view is— well, wait, they didn't know you're conservative?

No. Oh, I remembered. I remembered what it was.

Yeah.

So many liberals— I've been at these dinners with like a lot of liberals before, and they love me. And I so badly want to like cut in and go, I'm conservative, by the way.

And I— right, of course, you know.

And then see their reaction. I want to say, remember how much you like me right now and your impression of me will be undone in a moment, including at this dinner. Like, like halfway through, this woman turned to me and she's like, you're so funny. You're such a, you're such a fun person to sit next to. And after listening to her opinions for the past 30 minutes, I wanted to be like, you're not.

If you knew what I said politically, you'd hate me. You're not fun to sit next to.

Right.

Okay. So wait, so at no point then you did, you speak up? I asked you that earlier.

Oh no, I did, but I was—

I was soft. It was very soft. Yes, I see.

I don't— I will never pretend like I'm liberal when I'm not.

Yeah, no, no, I know that.

I'm not going to change their minds.

You're not. You know, that is correct.

It would just ruin the dinner.

You're— that's fair. However, given my notoriety, especially among Jews. Yes, it would have been fascinating if you even did it with a smile. Well, since you asked, I can't lie, and I have a feeling you'll find this fascinating. I do a weekly podcast for an hour and a half with Dennis Prager. There would have been silence, maybe some moaning. I'll tell you what there would not have been.

Who was among that group?

Yes, exactly. But anyway, it's because they got to like you. You're a young woman here, and it just— I— none of this has to do with me or ego or any nonsense like that. It is just a fascinating human question. How the group— so I'm the way, by the way, the way I answer all these questions, it's— people should hear this because it's a fantastic way to govern your life. I instinctively, I mean within a nanosecond of taking a position, I always ask, well, Dennis, what if the shoes were on the other feet? What if the tables were turned? Or whatever cliché one comes up with. In other words, let us say I, at one of my Shabbat dinners with all these conservative Jews and non-Jews who come out and somebody visiting, a young woman was visiting and we didn't know her for what, you know, she was the cousin of somebody last week, huh? Oh, no, no, no.

You're referencing an actual person.

No, no, not at all. I'm giving—

I was like, she was liberal. Yeah.

No, there was no such thing. But let's say somebody was there. None of us knew her, like the case with you, just the relative of one of the participants. And the person turned out to be on the left. And so if that person would say, you know, as it happens, Give me some Joe Scarborough. Is he—

Young Turks?

Yeah. Oh, God. That's okay. That would be difficult. But nevertheless, because they're just not nice. It's not a matter of that. I differ with them, but it doesn't matter. The Young Turks or Joe Scarborough or Morning Joe. Well, CNN is not as left as those things. In other words, how would would we react? I think we would react with fascination. We would want— we would have wanted the young woman to speak up and talk. So, but you maybe correctly inferred this will make them uncomfortable.

Going back to reading the room, and I know I was right. If I had really come— and by the way, if they had pressed further, I wouldn't have. I give— I know you don't have two general answers. And then my rule is the third time I'm coming out with the H-bomb. Yes. Well, no, I have a theory about the H-bomb. You have to come out with it. You can't go up to someone, go, hi, I went to Harvard. I never do that. But if someone asks you where you went to school, you don't say Massachusetts. Not say Massachusetts, Cambridge, Boston. You say Harvard.

Okay, that's fair.

But then again, you're damned because it looks worse if you're trying to conceal it.

But that's right.

With regard to this job, and trust me, I have been in many situations where I've had to perfect this practice. I have a rule. If it's in an environment where I know people will be made to feel uncomfortable or get antagonistic, time one, I say media. Time two, I say radio, you know, talk show hosting.

Question three.

Question three, I'm out with it. I'm not going to hide it. But, you know, so I, having gone to college with 99% of liberal people, I'm very used to being in the position as the one that you just described, where someone says, I'm working for, you know, AOC this summer, or I'm working for XYZ. And I actually was recently, saw, ran into a former classmate. And I said, oh, hey, nice to see you. What are you doing these days? And she said, well, I am actually working at the White House. In for the communications team. And you know what I said? And by the way, I hate President Biden. I hate him. I hate the Biden administration. I think they are ruining and destroying the country. But you know what I said to her? I said, good for you.

Good for you. Exactly correct. Right.

I'm not going to say, yeah, oh, that's—

you're helping people ruin your country.

Yeah.

Right.

And I'm not going to fake like I'm super happy for her.

That's my point. I think that I reversed— remember, I want to make it clear what I said. You were sensitive to the fact that if you said, I do a conservative podcast, or even worse, I do one with Dennis Prager every week, that it would have caused palpable reaction, discomfort.

Yes.

So But it's not correct the other way around. If there was a guest at our table of conservatives on Friday night, a young woman exactly like you, but on the left, we would be fascinated if she said, oh, I work for the Biden White House. We, we wouldn't be offended. We wouldn't be hurt. We wouldn't lose our appetites. We would just go, tell us about it. And we wouldn't attack the person. So I think we can handle this better than they— they would have been, I think, upset.

Well, again, that's what you think. Yes.

I mean, that's your point.

I know. I mean, I know they would have been upset, but it harkens back a little bit to what I was saying earlier, where on the left it is an obligation and a responsibility to get outraged. That is the way that we are taught to fight alleged bigotry or racism or whatever antiquated thought, wrong.

Sexist, intolerant, xenophobic, homophobic.

Exactly. We are taught if you don't get upset, if you don't get loud, if you don't get combative, then you are legitimizing and allow the bigotry and allowing the bigotry to exist on the right. And I have said this many, many times on the show, but it can't be said enough. I am right-wing on many, many issues, obviously, but there are some issues, abortion being one of them, where I get very, very conflicted. And I am at times sympathetic or understanding of the left-wing view. I have guest hosted your show countless times. I have said on your national radio show as well as on Dennis and Julie that I am conflicted on the issue of abortion. I have never once gotten a mean, nasty, cancel culture email from any of you.

Or has anyone asked Salem not to have me on?

No one ever.

And Salem said— Salem has never run by evangelical Christians.

Never, ever. And they deserve enormous credit for that, among other things. They have never told me what to say, what to think. And they—

Larry Elder is— Larry Elder is one of the heroes of Salem Radio for years. And he— and he's for same-sex marriage.

But—

and everybody knows it.

But I tell people that on the left, I go, 'Cause they especially think like your audience are super right-wing nutbag. They have this crazy distorted view, but your audience is not crazy right-wing nutbag, but they are right-wing and they are mostly pro-life and deeply committed Christians. And I tell that all the time, that abortion thing. And I say, again, like, doesn't this say something to you about the state of conservatism or the right in America that I can go on one of the most popular national radio shows in the United States with millions of listeners and feel comfortable saying that I'm conflicted on the issue of abortion and I've never been canceled for it. It really is amazing. Now, I've gotten emails of people saying, hey, Julie, I heard you say this. I got one actually this morning from someone saying, I want you to reconsider. Here are some videos I'd like for you to watch. But it's always so conciliatory because on the right, if someone disagrees with us, we try to win them over based on the merits of our argument. And I think we have a greater view that disagreement is okay, and it's what makes our country our country. On the left, if you don't shout people down, you are somehow legitimizing bigotry. How did we get off on this thing? I know it's the general discussion of manners and— oh, I was talking about the Rosh Hashanah dinner.

Yeah. Oh yeah, that's how we got onto that specifically. But back to the, the original thing was who causes the tension at the holiday table? Why would you do that? So you'll like this. I wonder— I, I know I've said this to you privately. I You'll know if I've said it publicly.

Yes, I'll know what episode.

I'll know what time in the episode, the date we recorded the episode, the day the episode was aired. So have I told you what I, what I actually said to my daughter-in-law one, one time on the phone?

No.

Oh, well, you might. I hope you don't. I want— I hope it's the first time I'm mentioning this. So I was talking to my wonderful daughter-in-law. My oldest son's— I have two daughters-in-law, my older one, and she's been my daughter-in-law much longer than the younger one for obvious reasons. So I was telling her, you know, I want you to know what I want to be in your and David— David is my son— in your and David's life. I want to be easy.

You said that— I'm sorry, go on.

Go on. What? No, I've said it before. I don't know if I said it on Dennis and Julie.

You said to me recently— no, I don't think so. You said it to me privately, but not on this show. You, you did say to me privately recently that the one of the best gifts that you can give to people is being an easy presence in their lives.

So that's what I wanted to say.

And I—

this—

that made a big impression on me. You're totally right. I have left-wing people in my life who I— but, but they're easy. And that makes all the difference.

Yes. This is not necessarily political.

No, no, no.

Right. It just— I only said left wing because I think it is one of the great ambitions a human should have that I bring calm wherever I go.

Thank you so much for watching. And as I said earlier, you can always email me at julie@julie-hartman.com. I hope to see you soon. And of course, we hope so much that Dennis will come back to this chair sooner rather than later. But in the meantime, please continue your prayers and know how deeply we appreciate them. Take care. I'll see you soon. And shalom.

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