Life is a Dinner Table

Your dog and a stranger are drowning. You can only save one. Who do you choose? Dennis Prager says your answer reveals everything about how you define right and wrong. In his new book, If There Is No God, Prager exposes the danger of emotion-based morality and why without objective truth society descends into chaos. This isn't a religious book. It's a rational case for moral clarity in a confused age. If There Is No God from Dennis Prager. Order now at PragerStore.com. Here we are, Dennis and Julie. Dennis Prager, Julie Hartman. You know the reason for my silence? There are about 6 different subjects roaming my brain.

But that's you at all times.

At many times, though men tend to focus on one thing at once. You know, that's my old thing. This is not even the topic, but this is classic. We get sidetracked, but the sidetracks are— we could call it the tangent hour. The what?

The tangent hour. We had an episode called Tangent Hour.

That is exactly right. I just want to say, when women say to a guy— this is one of my funniest lines, if I have to admit it. I love talking about men and women. I used to give speeches on men and women more often, but the world is falling apart, so I'm speaking about the world falling apart more. But I would note, I would say, women, you say to your husband, so honey, honey, just share with me, what are you thinking about now? And the classic male answer is nothing. And needless to say, she doesn't believe him. Because no woman has thought about nothing since Eve. Okay.

And you didn't think about nothing.

That's right. I'm saying that's correct. And Eve didn't think about nothing. Exactly. So what I try to reassure women is he's not lying.

I really can't conceptualize that.

No, not at that time.

Difficult for me because if I try to think about nothing, I'm thinking about how I'm trying to think about nothing.

And then, no, no, I'm not thinking about nothing. That's why my old line, if we got your brains, we'd commit suicide. And if you got our brains, you would just walk around free. Free at last.

I have a little bit of a tangent, though it will be quick because I want to hear all 6 of your subjects. I on Timeless recently interviewed this lovely professor, Cathy Yandel. She's a professor at, I believe, Carleton College in Minnesota, if I'm remembering that correctly, of French studies. And she wrote a book, which, by the way, for our our listeners, is a great Christmas present if you're looking for one that's cheap and people will enjoy this. Her book is a great Christmas present. It's called The French Art of Living Well: Finding Joie de Vivre in Our Everyday.

It's pronounced—

okay, Sean, Sean is laughing. And when I did it on air, he stopped me and had me redo it. But she said it was joie de vivre. Well, she said it in her beautiful French accent.

No, that's how she would have said it.

Did she not? She said it was joie de vivre. She said the way I was saying it was fine, but Sean, every time I said it on the episode, would crack up in my ear. It's very distracting.

Very. Anyway, his role is to hurt our show, and he succeeds.

Okay, so, so, but one of the things that we discussed was— and it just made me think of it when you talked about how men tend to think of one thing at a time. Yeah, that is true of the French. They tend not to multitask in the same way.

Enjoy the moment. Yes, the moment.

Yes. And she said they just— they, they just have more of a sense of letting time pass. They're just— they find that to be more acceptable, and they don't multitask. If they're having a conversation with you, they're in it. If they're eating, they're eating.

That's a very good rule for enjoying life.

And her book has all of these tips.

If you can do it. I can do it. I call it compartmentalizing. Otherwise you can't get through life.

I struggle to do that.

I'm sure you do. I know you and you're female. So between you and female, it's difficult. But I have been able to do that because I've been tested and I have been able to compartmentalize and it was life-saving. So I have an interesting thought in light of the holiday season we're now in the midst of between Thanksgiving and Christmas. And I could include Hanukkah, but the vast majority of Americans are having Christmas, so I just want to make clear I'm not being discriminatory against my own religion. Okay, so here is a very, you'll really get a charge out of this. So there was an article and I can't remember, it was a major outlet, but I don't remember, was it the New York Times? I don't remember. And it was the biggest, I'm paraphrasing sort of, the biggest holiday meal wreckers.

Wreckers.

Wreckers, yes. So what subjects are the most likely to wreck your family Christmas dinner or Thanksgiving dinner? So this was published right before Thanksgiving. And then I did it. I did a show on this. That's one of the great beauties of talk radio. I was going to say this is a tangent, but it's worth just noting. You know how lucky you are to talk to all these wonderful people that you get to interview.

I do. Julie Hartman.

Yes.

Oh yes, of course.

It is a gift of this profession. Gift. That many of them are terrific people.

Oh, absolutely. And callers. I mean, when I, when I—

that's right—

host your show, I learned so much from callers.

So I bounce this thing off callers. So I'm going to ask you, this is great. What do you think? Maybe they're wrong. I'm not— this was not, you know, given by God to Moses, but maybe they're right. What do you think they listed as the single greatest dinner wrecker subject?

And who's they again?

Who was— I don't know, New York Times, Wall Street Journal. No, no, believe it or not, this was— it was pretty neutral. Yeah.

I mean, I would say politics.

That's what I would have said. It's exactly what I would have said. Correct.

Or religion.

Not because that was— that was lower on the list. It was on the list, but it was lower than politics.

So what is it then?

That was number 2. I was actually surprised at number 1, but when I bounced it off listeners, it was a lot of verification. Family issues.

Oh my gosh. Well, I mean, that's a given, but I wouldn't—

Well, why is it a given? I mean, that's the— that's— it's not a given. Well, I guess politics and I guess politics.

I just think that is so off limits that people—

but it's not. But that's the point. If it's the biggest single problem subject at a holiday meal, it's not a given. That's why it's so interesting. And to you and me, maybe I can't speak for you seriously in this case. I don't know.

I said, who the hell is going to raise family issues at their Thanksgiving or Christmas meal?

You would think so, right? What kind of nut? You're going to bring up crappy family problems at this, you know, once or twice a year lunch or dinner?

This is a whole Dennis and Julie episode unto its own, but there are some people in the world who just can't control themselves. In many different ways.

That is a good point.

In many, many different ways.

That's an example.

That is an example. And you know what? We tend to think of people who lack control as those who overeat, those who overdrink, those who are addicted to cigarettes. But no, there's— there are people who cannot emotionally regulate themselves or cannot read the room and put other people's—

I have not shaken your hand. I know we've never done this on Dennis and Julie in 2 years of this.

I know that's— that's a moment.

That is such a wonderfully placed point.

Oh, well, it's huge. And as I get older, it's endlessly fascinating to me to observe those people where the desire to pick a fight, to be combative, to be contrarian is something that has control over them and not something that they can control.

But you made your— it's superb, but you added a double which caused me to shake your hand. Can't read the room. That is such a big deal. Can't read the room. Like, you're not— wait a minute, you're not aware that if you raise that subject, it's the end of the joy of this holiday?

Totally. And, and I used to think that— well, it's, it's interesting because I think there are some people who really just have a blind spot, like they don't realize that bringing up that subject is going to wreak havoc on the dinner or cause other people to be uncomfortable. But I actually think that there are just as many, if not more, people who actually do realize that it will wreak havoc anyway and are pleased. Yes. And it's this weird, like, I don't know, we would need Dr. Marmor here to to add to the conversation for what the psychoanalytic reason for such a behavior is.

But I marvel at it.

I know you so well, and obviously I know me so well, and I know that both of us, we are constantly surveilling ourselves.

Yes. And the environment.

Yes. Am I over— am I talking too long? Are people bored? Are people uncomfortable? Do they want me to— you know, and you do it in a good way. I do it in an intensely self-critical way. But the point is, I think the definition of manners is making other people feel comfortable, and especially at a Thanksgiving dinner or holiday dinner, you have to be aware of that.

So what you're saying as well— this is really a worthy discussion— is you're saying as well, and I totally agree, the individual who raises some family issue is a narcissist. I care about it. I don't care if it ruins this meal for all 8 of you. I— well, or even there might be a worse— maybe I want to ruin this meal. And by the way, I want to make clear why I think that is a possibility. There are two types of unhappy people: unhappy people and unhappy people who want others to be unhappy, who resent happy people. Not all unhappy people resent happy people. But many do. And so you're enjoying this Thanksgiving meal? They're not saying this consciously to themselves, but, but it is animating. Because otherwise, how does one explain it? Why are you raising that issue? We're getting along fine talking about the weather.

It's very bizarre, but I've witnessed it several times, how many people don't, don't have control over themselves. I actually did a show on Timeless recently called How to Make Your Thanksgivings Less Awkward. And I decided to do it really just to suffuse some levity into the show because you know me, I tend to do hardcore subjects. I mean, that week, the one day I was analyzing Islamofascism with a geopolitical expert. The next day I was interviewing Gerald Posner about the 60th anniversary of the JFK assassination. Then I thought, okay, I need to do, I need to do a lighter show. But honestly, well, yes, I earned it, but also I— for the audience's benefit, you know, and you're, you're very— I've learned that from you, where you, you are very good at adding levity and humor in, in your radio show. But actually, although it was the spirit of it was supposed to, to be again to suffuse levity, I think it was actually one of the more important shows I've ever done because it was on the one hand, it was giving tips for how to make the dinner less awkward. I talked about games that you can play. I gave a list of what I called bland or apolitical conversation topics that— because people suggest like talk about the weather or talk about food or talk about traffic. But I always find those to be stupid suggestions because for how long, for how long can you talk about traffic? 3 minutes. And so I gave some suggestions, but then at the end, I kind of gave general advice. And one of those pieces of advice was, it's not about you. If you are at a Thanksgiving dinner table, especially if you didn't cook and prepare the meal, if you're a guest, or even if you did cook and prepare the meal, you are one among however many guests you have at the table. And I repeated that definition of manners. It's about making other people feel comfortable, and you cannot monopolize the dinner with your bizarre malignant desire to make other people miserable.

The one of the great revelations, and I really feel silly admitting this, I do, because you said it and you're 24. I knew a lot of 24, but I don't remember being aware of this exact concept. Until much later in life. And I think I know why, because it never occurred to me how rare it is, self-awareness. So I'll give you a perfect example on the road. Why would somebody, I know I've raised this as a joke on my show, 'cause I believe in capital punishment 'cause of slow drivers in the left lane. But even more remarkable, most every city in America has what is called a diamond lane or an HOV, high occupancy vehicle lane.

Carpool lane.

Carpool, high occupancy vehicle lane, they all have different names, okay. Why would you, it's almost always one lane, why would you go slower in the high occupancy vehicle or diamond lane or carpool lane than they are going in the non-carpool lanes. Why are you in that lane? Is my question clear?

Of course, yes.

The, the lack of self-awareness has to be total. I am going slower than the traffic in the other 4 lanes, or 3 of the other 4 lanes, or 2 of the other 3 lanes, whatever it is, but I'm taking the space And 40 cars are behind me and they don't know it.

See, but this is our classic debate about leftists. I tend to think that a lot of leftists may realize that their positions are corrupt and stupid, and yet they hold them, or at least claim to believe in them anyway, because they see it as facilitating personal and professional advantages. You tend to disagree with me a bit on that and say no, many of them are true believers. Now, bringing it back to the slow guy in the carpool lane, by the way, just to give an example, because I always I think it's critical.

Men give birth is an example. Okay.

Yeah.

Do they? So do the people who say that really believe it?

I think if you gave them 100% effective truth serum and said, can men give birth? I think most of them would say no. I do.

Okay.

I think there are some people who've totally been brainwashed.

Right.

But I think a lot of people know it's BS on that, but they want to, they want to be morally superior. They think it's going to be whatever. But putting that aside, You described those slow drivers, and I know you hate them. I've been in the car with you when you yell at them. They're very annoying. You just— you said the lack of self-awareness must be staggering. I actually— I'm sort of of a different opinion. I think they're aware that they're driving slowly in the carpool lane, many of them, and they don't care. They want to do it anyway.

Wow.

I do.

You may have a darker view of human nature than I do, and mine is—

you have a pretty damn dark. Yeah, right.

Oh, so I am going to screw it up for all those behind me.

Yes.

Because why? What is the satisfaction or the rationale? I can— it's made for me because I have someone else in my car.

I think they just— I don't even think they're thinking about other people.

Well, that's okay. That's what I mean by self-awareness.

Okay, I hear you, but I, I think to some extent they're aware, but they're just They're doing what they want to do and they're aware that it's, that it's wrong to go slow in the fast lane, but they don't care. And that's different than being totally unaware. What'd you say, Sean?

Sean has a darker view than either of us. What is your view? Yeah, I think that it's—

Yes, I think a lot of people are like that. No, seriously.

Really?

Oh, yeah. I—

what is the satisfaction in that? I'm missing it.

You and I can't understand.

You're right.

Right.

Yeah.

It's the mistake. Clear people, clear thinking people make the mistake of thinking that other people think clear.

So let me get back to the original point because it's important that we do. We're asking about the people who start conversations on issues that will only lead to tension at the holiday table. Correct. And you added the excellent point that the lack of self-awareness. So now applying what you're saying and what he said to from the, the slow driver in the diamond lane or what it's called, carpool lane, maybe they're happy to screw up the dinner.

I think what I said instead of self-awareness was self-control.

You added that, which is worthy of getting into as well, right? That, that raises its own world of issues, and I will get to it. I just want to make— I'm trying to understand what neither of us relates to. See, if somebody says so-and-so robbed a bank, there's nothing in me that asks, gee, why would he do that? Right? We totally understand why someone would rob a bank. They want money and they want to get away with taking it away. Okay. It's— nobody questions why did they rob a bank? Okay. I'm questioning why are you screwing up the very dinner you are at?

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All right, the two types of unhappy. He says, my comment, the unhappy who are unhappy and the unhappy who are, who want to take away your happiness. Do they, did you ever know somebody like this? Okay, fine. Do you have a thesis onto what is animating? Because lack of self-control might be, but I don't think it's the whole thing.

I think the person who I'm thinking of who is like this, who brings up conversation topics at the dinner table which are not conducive to a pleasant, pleasant experience, and in fact creates a lot of discomfort. I think that this person is having a totally different perception of what is going on at the table. I think that this individual reads into certain comments more than I might, or is aware of or contriving certain dynamics in— I'm going to say their head. I'm not saying it because this person is a they. I'm just trying to, you know, keep everything concealed. I think that there's actually a different perception of reality going on that is animating this individual to make certain comments.

They're perceiving what?

Um, that they are being slighted.

Oh, fascinating. Even the— even though it may not even be about them?

Yes, that they're being slighted. Yes.

Well, so I said narcissism might be one of the roots of this.

Yes. And I think a lot of people— I mean, we all carry baggage in our own lives, but I think that some people have dynamics from their childhood or from other parts of their lives where that they carry into different situations.

Here, have you seen the video I made which I co-wrote with Alan? For Goodness' Sake, the one from the 1990s. Everybody should watch it. It's free. It's on the internet. For Goodness' Sake. They'll crack up. It's a phenomenally good film. And one of the scenes, these were my ideas put in, put into action on a video, on a film. So I had an idea of if people were filmed in the course of a week and they saw the wrong things they did, how would they react? It's a very powerful scene, and one of them is where there are a few examples, but one is where they took up two parking spots.

By the way, someone does that here.

Oh, no, no, I think they should be leaving a note. Yes. Oh, I wish you would. Yes. So this is a really, really significant question. If the people who did that were videoed and then forced to watch the video look at the way you left your car and, and you made it impossible for a person to park next to you. Would, would that affect their behavior? Now, you ready? I know you haven't heard me say this. You'll love this story. I got this idea from— I would— my 30s, when I was in my 30s. I, you know, always been into photography, and I got the first video recording machines when they were so heavy. It was a 20-pound recorder and a 10-pound camera, and I still carried it around with me around the country. And I videoed— I went to my parents, they had an apartment in Miami Beach, so I visited them one winter and I schlepped this whole apparatus on the airplane and I put it on a tripod and just videoed an entire meal with my parents. I hope I haven't lost it. Totally natural. They weren't even aware. Maybe they were aware but forgot about it. So I sat down, we all sat down to watch it later. And my mother had served chicken. And my father licked his fingers. And he was so embarrassed. He goes, that is really, it's disgusting. Licking my fingers while everybody's eating? And my mother said, do you know that I've told you that for 30 years? And it hasn't made any difference. But now once, for 10 seconds, He watched himself doing it.

That's very interesting, right?

So this is a very interesting question. If the, if the a-hole at the Christmas dinner who screws everything up by raising issues that are inevitably tension causers saw that happen, would, would it make an impact?

I think it would. I think you're hitting on something important here because when they're in it, they're seeing they're seeing the dynamic through their own eyes. They have a— it's almost like they have different colored glasses on, which is, you know, tainting the whole scene around them. But I think if they were to step outside and literally watch it on video, it might make an impact. But then there are some people for whom I don't think it would.

Right. Okay. So we agree. We don't— and neither of us knows the ratio. Right? We don't know what percentage of people would it impact and what percentage would it not impact. But if self-awareness is a big part of the problem, going back to our original thesis, then the antidote to self— now self-awareness is self-awareness. You can't be more self-aware than if you watch yourself on the screen.

So you will be able to speak to this better, better than I can. But I actually think that this has gotten worse over the past few decades in the United States. And I opened the How to Make Your Thanksgiving Less Awkward show with that point. I think that we live— I know you agree about this. We live in a culture now where your truth stands above the truth and everyone else's truth. Even that statement, which we hear so much, that you know, speak your truth. There's no such thing as your truth or my truth. There's your opinion and my opinion, your experience and my experience. But there is one unchanging, eternal truth which stands above all of the rest of us. But just using that as an example, there are so many ways, like just our culture legitimizes your impulses. There's— I mean, you talk about this on the radio all the time about the self-control is more important than self-esteem. But if you look at so many of the issues that are prevalent in the political sphere, a lot of them go back to this cult of self. Me, me, me, me, me. What I want should stand above anything else. Look at trigger warnings. I have a right not to be offended. Pronouns. I have the right to make everyone else adhere to this vision of gender that I have. And I mean, I remember at Harvard we all had to go around every day in the class and say our pronouns because there was one student in the class who had pronouns which were outside of the gender binary. I mean, look at student loan forgiveness. I shouldn't have to pay back my student loans. I don't have responsibility if I took out a loan. That's unfair, the government should have to do it for me. Transgender women playing in women's sports. If I wanna play in women's sports, I should be allowed to do that, even if it's unfair to the rest of them. And every single issue, even abortion, we've talked about abortion on this show. When you see pro-choice people getting so angry at pro-life people, I think a large part of that is that they are thinking, how dare you tell me that I have responsibility to someone other than myself. That is my unborn child or the father of the child or to society in general, where we're going down a slippery slope if we start saying it's okay to abort people. But the general point I'm making is we've legitimized this me, me, me, self above all culture. And I think that has bled into our personal lives. We're now at the dinner table, we've so internalized these things that it comes into everyday conversation, even outside the political sphere. What do you think? Do you think it's gotten worse over—

Oh, there's no, that's a given.

But why? So I'm giving my analysis. What's yours?

Let's remember to deal with that. I wanna address exactly what you said. By asking the obvious question. 50 years ago, 100 years ago, were holiday tables as wracked with tension as they are today?

I don't think so.

So I agree with you. I don't know if there's any way to know.

Right.

But I do agree with you. You know Norman Rockwell, the painter?

Of course.

Okay. Well, look, the number of people in your generation who know Norman Rockwell the painter is one.

Well, I only know him because of Robert Florczak.

Okay, fine. Okay, so that was very honest of you. Robert Florczak, we love you. He watches every show. At least one of us does. So anyway, he has one of his most famous paintings is Thanksgiving Dinner where mom is bringing the turkey to the family seated at the table. So you can have two reactions to Norman Rockwell. He just romanticized American life, period, end of issue. Or yes, he romanticized American life, but it was based on a lot of reality. I think the second is truer. And I look, if Thanksgiving dinner were wracked with tension for the average family, the painting would have been regarded as absurd.

Good point. It would not have resonated as much. Exactly right.

Exactly.

And now if we saw a different version of the painting which does depict family tension, it would resonate a lot in our culture, which is revolutionary.

Exactly. Everybody yelling at each other. The guy, do you know somebody? This is why I love talk radio after 40 years, because I can't live everybody's life, so I learn everybody's life by their calling in. So I raised this on my radio show, and 2 people called in, different parts of the country. You know, it's interesting, because when we open up our Thanksgiving and Christmas dinners, 'With a prayer.' And my— and then they fill in some relative. In this case, it was daughter-in-law. 'My daughter-in-law leaves.' Oh yeah.

Oh yeah.

Now I'm thinking, you gotta be kidding. You won't sit? Let's say you think God is nonsense, prayer is drivel. Well, why? Just out of human respect.

But this is the cult of self that I was talking about. In addition, to those political issues that I mentioned, even I, not to plug Timeless every 5 seconds, but I did do an episode on this, I believe called The Cult of Self. And I started the show by playing a compilation of clips of politicians talking. And one of them was from Maxine Waters. This was in 2018. Remember when she got up and gave that famous speech where she was like, if you see a member of the Trump administration, Create a crowd around them, make them feel unwelcome. So I played that clip and then I played some clips from President Biden, Hillary Clinton. I mean, just insert whatever person saying like, get out, get loud, you know, show people that you want to fight racism and, you know, eradicate climate change and all this. And we live in this, this rah, rah, rah, get loud, be disruptive culture. The way that you fight bigotry or you to combat things around you that are uncomfortable are getting explosive. And so no wonder the daughter-in-law leaves the dinner table because if she has a hostility to God or Judeo-Christian values, she has been taught that the way to resist that is by making a point and getting up and leaving the dinner table. When have you ever heard a politician or a commencement speaker or a thought leader, besides you of course, in some kind of way Instruct people to practice restraint. Whatever happened to people giving strength?

You have to define the term. That's how rare. Rarely.

Seriously, like in life, you're going to be uncomfortable. There are going to be people who say things that are offensive to you that you disagree with.

Adamant. You are not the center of the world, Dennis. And it worked.

But we are teaching people that they are the center of the world and that they have an obligation to get up from the dinner table and leave if God has spoken. They have an obligation to show up in protest.

Really? I would pay— I would pay $1,000. I mean this literally. I would give of my own money $1,000 to have that daughter-in-law on my radio show.

I can get you some people who are like that daughter-in-law to come on.

You could?

Yeah.

Just, you know, people who would walk out of a family meal.

I've gone to school with some people who would walk.

Well, and while Okay, that's fascinating. Well, I would— all right, so I'll lower it to $250. But anyway, I don't know if you're allowed to pay for guests on radio. Seriously, I'm not sure. So, but in any event, I don't understand. You, you know, you mean fellow students?

Yeah, not— I don't know, I'm not friends with them, I don't know them personally, but I— yeah, I've seen people who— and why would their reasoning be, be, I, I, I, I shouldn't be made to feel uncomfortable?

Oh, that's it. Sorry. It was a stupid question.

Me, me, me, me, me, me.

I should know. No, that's key. That's the root of safe spaces.

Yes.

You're uncomfortable if a conservative speaker comes to campus. Notice all the discomfort is on their side.

Yes, but it's—

I mean, if let us say somebody— well, not let us say. I am with Christians more than I am with Jews, though I am a religious Jew and I I go to synagogue every week, but most of my life is with Christians. And I feel blessed, by the way, by that fact. And so either at a table or at a function, almost always someone will have an opening prayer. Almost always it ends, "In the name of Jesus, amen." Okay, so I'm a Jew, I'm not a Christian. And Christ is not a divine figure for me. Okay, am I offended? The idea I would walk out? I mean, it would not— it's not only narcissistic, it's actually pathologic, and it's also morally wrong. What harm did that person at the dining room table do daughter-in-law that you, you have to walk out.

Yes. But, and it's amazing because we hear the left talk about being a member of a community and having responsibility, and a lot of their language is oriented, it seems, in this way of you have obligations to other people. But that's just the language. In practice, the things that they really encourage you to do are to disregard your responsibilities that you have to other people. And just do what—

Responsibilities to other people is in the macro. I will fight racism, but in my personal life, I will be a selfish person.

But they're not really fighting— I know you agree—

No, I know they're not. No, I know, but that's not—

These are just words.

That, of course they are. But my point is, and this I have made all of my life, we have macro-ized morality. If you have the right positions, you are a wonderful human being. You fight climate change, you are a terrific human being. That is what enables these young people who fight climate change and stop all the traffic in San Francisco or London, or smash valuable paintings and then tie themselves or paste themselves, glue themselves to the wall in a museum. We define what is right.

And they also have a perception of life that there's a way to make it perfectly fair and perfectly equitable and without any discomfort. And if there's one thing— if I've actually thought so much recently about what kind of commencement address I would give if I were speaker at a graduation ceremony, and I think I would just hammer— because we hear and we've talked about this on Dennis and Julie, we hear these speeches which are either very political, encouraging you to go out, fight climate change, fight racism, fight transphobia, or we hear these speeches about like how some very obscure, immensely successful person made it, like a Mark Zuckerberg or an Elon Musk. And if you, you know, if you're creative enough, you can make it too. And I think both of those are just so wrong for different reasons. If I were giving a graduation speech, I would just make it— I would just hammer home the point: life is really hard. You are going to be treated poorly. You're going to have bad things happen to you that you don't deserve. You're going to encounter tragedy. You're going to— and it's not all of life, but discomfort in life is a feature, not a bug. Expect it. And the sooner you learn how to deal with it— that line, a feature, not a bug. No, I heard it.

Okay, folks, I heard it. That is impressive that she would acknowledge that.

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That is a great line. Discomforted life. Is a feature.

No, I heard it. It's a very good line. Very, very good line. But, but people, like, they don't, they don't— when I— okay, I'll give you an example. I was at a, um, what was the most recent Jewish holiday? Was it Rosh Hashanah?

No, Sukkot.

Okay, well, I wasn't at— I think, I think this was— yeah, this was a few months ago, but I was at a Rosh Hashanah dinner at a, um, one of my friends' moms invited me to their— what do you call it— Seder.

That's the Passover.

Okay. Sorry.

All right. Then a Rosh Hashanah meal. Yeah.

Yeah. Rosh Hashanah meal. And their family is liberal. They know I'm conservative. They're very kind to me, which I very much appreciate. But they had many dinner guests and all of them were left-wing Democrats. And the whole, you know, the entire dinner conversation was about Trump is evil. And, you know, thank God that There are certain, you know, Democrats— I did. But, but, but the point was there were times in the dinner when I was angry. This is, this is the comment I have. I have to leftists. I'm going on a tangent, but it's relevant to this. Sometimes when, when people say to me, you know, I'm repulsed by your beliefs, or often on the internet, they don't have the courage to in person. My response to them is, as repulsed and reviled as you are by my beliefs, I can promise you I am just as repulsed and reviled by yours, but I actually have manners and I'm not going to troll you on the the internet or resort to ad hominem attacks. I'm going to argue based on the merits of my positions. I just want to make that clear. We conservatives are always so much on the defensive because we're having the vitriol spewed at us. We are just as repulsed by them as they are by us, but we actually have manners. So, so, right.

They're shocked to find out that we dislike Biden as much as they dislike Trump.

But we don't, we don't make that clear. And I'm not saying that we should resort to their pettiness, But I think that in a dignified way, we need to remind them of that, that it's not just one way because we're always so much on defense. But anyway, at this Rosh Hashanah dinner, there were times when I was very uncomfortable where, you know, one of them at the dinner was talking about gender-affirming care. And I think gender-affirming care, especially for minors, is one of the moral atrocities of our time. And so I'm just trying to paint a picture, especially for leftists listening, that again, I was uncomfortable by things that they were saying, as they would have been if I were talking about my conservatism. But you know what I realized? I'm a guest in someone's home. When I am stepping into someone's home, it's their rules. I knew what I was getting into. They're liberal. They have every right in their home to talk about every liberal left-wing issue to their heart's desire. And if I agree to come and if I'm a good guest, I shut up.

So I hear you.

Or if I challenge—

this is a very interesting discussion in and of itself. So you are a regular guest at the Shabbat dinner that I attend virtually every Friday night, and virtually the whole crew is conservative, which is rare for Jews, but it is the case. I want you to know this. This you'll find of interest in light of what you just said. If I knew that someone of the left were attending the dinner, I would ask the group not to talk politics. I would want them to feel good and comfortable.

Totally. I do.

I mean, so, no, no, you were saying it's their home. They could talk about whatever they want. That is, that is a very fair statement. But I'm giving an example of our home. It's sort of like my home because, you know, I'm sort of the inviter of of a lot of the people who come. But I, I don't want to subject, especially not because just of the, the comfort issue, especially because of the number issue. There are a dozen of us and one of them, right? And it's not, it's not right.

Well, you have manners. And again, the definition of manners is making other people feel comfortable.

That's right.

And when I was at that Rosh Hashanah dinner, again, there were, there were Most of the people there didn't know me. I didn't know them. And they said to me, oh, Julie, what do you do? And by the way, I just want to make something clear. I am very proud of what I do. I never hide it.

Good. So what did you say?

Well, I actually— that's actually a little dishonest when I say I never hide it. I never— I never want to hide it. But there are times when I know what— how to package it differently. And so at this dinner, I said I work in media.

I— and that's all you said.

And they go, oh, well, kind of. I said, you know, political talk radio.

And that's— that was it.

And they moved on.

I— it's painful to me that you didn't say, among other things, I do a podcast with Dennis Prager.

But you know why I didn't do that?

Because it would have ruined their meal.

It would have ruined— and I didn't— I didn't—

they would have lost their appetite. Probably left-wing Jews do not have pictures of me in there.

Well, you know what's funny, Dennis? Oh God, I want to remember what's funny. Bingo! We have Dennis and Julie Bingo, and one of them is whenever we forget something. Damn, I just forgot my point. Oh, I'm here with us, and we're—

don't blame me.

Well, I'm not blaming you. I'm just saying it happens to you too.

Of course, happens to everything.

For those who don't have Dennis and Julie Bingo, you gotta get it. Um, damn, what was it? It was funny.

Well, wait, the, the point was about why you didn't mention that you have a podcast with me.

Yeah.

So was it—

it'll come to you, it'll come back. But, oh, but you know, this is not, this is not the point, but this is not the thing that I'm remembering. But my point was, the reason why I didn't do that was because I knew it would make the people at the table uncomfortable. And it's not that I'm ashamed of what I do, but I know, I know that.

Well, that's interesting.

I didn't really— for the host sake. I didn't want to— for her sake, I didn't want someone to go, oh, well, you are good.

My view is— well, wait, they didn't know you're conservative?

No. Oh, I remembered. I remembered what it was.

Yeah.

So many liberals— I've been at these dinners with like a lot of liberals before, and they love me. And I so— I, I so badly want to like cut in and go, I'm conservative, by the way.

And right, of course, you know, and then see their reaction.

I want to say, remember how much you like me right now and your impression of me will be undone in a moment, including at this dinner. Like, like halfway through, this woman turned to me and she's like, you're so funny. You're such a, you're such a fun person to sit next to. And after listening to her opinions for the past 30 minutes, I wanted to be like, you're not.

If you knew where I stood politically, you'd hate me. You're not fun to sit next to.

Right.

Okay. So wait, so at no point then you did, you speak up? I asked you that earlier.

Oh, no, I did. But I was—

I was very soft. Yes, I see.

I don't— I will never pretend like I'm liberal when I'm not.

Yeah. No, no, I know that. I know.

No, no, you're not. Their minds.

You're not. You know, that is correct.

It would just ruin the dinner.

You're— that's fair. However, given my notoriety, especially among Jews. Yes. It would have been fascinating if you even did it with a smile. Well, since you asked, I can't— I can't lie, and I have a feeling you'll find this fascinating. I do a weekly podcast for an hour and a half with Dennis Prager. There would have been silence, maybe some moaning. I'll tell you what there would not have been.

Who was among that group?

Yes, exactly. But anyway, it's because they got to like you. You're a young woman here, and it just—

I—

none of this has to do with me or ego or any nonsense like that. It is just a fascinating human question. How the group— so I'm the way, by the way, the way I answer all these questions, it's— people should hear this because it's a fantastic way to govern your life. I instinctively, I mean within a nanosecond of taking a position, I always ask, well, Dennis, what if the shoes were on the other feet? What if the tables were turned? Or whatever cliché one comes up with. In other words, let us say I, at one of my Shabbat dinners with all these conservative Jews and non-Jews who come out and somebody visiting, a young woman was visiting and we didn't know her. You know, she was the cousin of somebody last week. Huh? Oh, no, no, no.

I thought you were referencing an actual person.

No, no, not at all. I'm giving—

I was like, she was liberal. Yeah.

No, there was, there was no such thing. But let's say somebody was there. We did— none of us knew her, like, like the case with you, just the relative of one of the participants. And, uh, the, the person was— turned out to be on the left. And so if that person would say, you know, as it happens Give me a— give me some Joe Scarborough.

Is he Young Turks?

Yeah. Oh, God. That's okay. That would be difficult. But nevertheless, because they're just not nice. It's not a matter of that. I differ with them, but it doesn't matter. The Young Turks or Joe Scarborough or CNN. Morning Joe. Well, CNN is not as left as those things. In other words, how would would we react? I think we would react with fascination. We would want— we would have wanted the young woman to speak up and talk.

So, but you maybe correctly inferred this will make them uncomfortable, going back to reading the room. And I know, I know I was right. If I had really come— and by the way, if they had pressed further, I wouldn't have. I give— I know you don't have two general answers. And then my rule is the third time I'm coming out with the H-bomb. Yes. Well, no, I have a theory about the H-bomb. You have to come out with it. You can't go up to someone, go, hi, I went to Harvard. I never do that. But if someone asks you where you went to school, you don't say Massachusetts. Not say Massachusetts, Cambridge, Boston. You say Harvard.

Okay, that's fair.

But then again, you're damned because it looks worse if you're trying to conceal it.

But that's right.

With regard to this job, and trust me, I have been in many situations where I've had to perfect this practice. I have a rule. If it's in an environment where I know people will be made to feel uncomfortable or get antagonistic, time one, I say media. Time two, I say radio, you know, talk show hosting.

Question three.

Question three, I'm out with it. I'm not going to hide it. But, you know, so I, having gone to college with 99% of liberal people, I'm very used to being in the position as the one that you just described, where someone says, I'm working for, you know, AOC this summer, or I'm working for XYZ. And I actually was recently, saw, ran into a former classmate, And I said, oh, hey, nice to see you. What are you doing these days? And she said, well, I am actually working at the White House for the communications team. And you know what I said? And by the way, I hate President Biden. I hate him. I hate the Biden administration. I think they are ruining and destroying the country. But you know what I said to her? I said, good for you.

Good for you. Exactly correct.

Okay.

Right.

I'm not going to say Yeah. Oh, that's—

you're helping people ruin your country.

Yeah.

Right.

And I'm not going to fake like I'm super happy.

That's my point. I think that I reversed— remember, I want to make it clear what I said. You were sensitive to the fact that if you said, I do a conservative podcast, or even worse, I do one with Dennis Prager every week, that it would have caused palpable reaction, discomfort. Yes. So, but it's not correct the other way around. If there was a guest at our table of conservatives on Friday night, a young woman exactly like you, but on the left, we would be fascinated if she said, oh, I work for the Biden White House. We wouldn't be offended. We wouldn't be hurt. We wouldn't lose our appetites. We would just go, tell us about it. And we wouldn't attack the person. So I think we can handle this better than they would have been, I think, upset.

Well, again, that's what you think. Yes.

I mean, that's your point.

Well, I know. I mean, I know they would have been upset, but it harkens back a little bit to what I was saying earlier, where on the left it is an obligation and a responsibility to get outraged. That is the way that we are taught to fight alleged bigotry or racism or whatever antiquated thought, wrong sex, or sexist and intolerant, xenophobic, homophobic. Exactly. We are taught if you don't get upset, if you don't get loud, if you don't get combative, then you are legitimizing and allowing the bigotry and allowing the bigotry to exist. On the right, and I have said this many, many times on the show, but it can't be said enough. I am right-wing on many, many issues, obviously, but there are some issues, abortion being one of them, where I get very, very conflicted and I am at times sympathetic or understanding of the left-wing view. I have guest hosted your show countless times. I have said on your national radio show as well as on Dennis and Julie that I am conflicted on the issue of abortion. I have never once gotten a mean, nasty cancel culture email from any of them.

Or has anyone asked Salem not to have you on?

No one ever.

And Salem said—

Salem has never—

Run by evangelical Christians.

Never, ever. And they deserve enormous credit for that, among other things. They have never told me what to say, what to think.

And they never— Larry Elder is one of the heroes of Salem Radio for years. And he's for same-sex marriage, and everybody knows it.

But I tell people that on the left, I go, 'cause they especially think like your audience are super right-wing nutbag. They have this crazy distorted view, but your audience is not crazy right-wing nutbag, but they are right-wing and they are mostly pro-life and deeply committed Christians. And I tell that all the time, that abortion thing. And I say, Again, like, doesn't this say something to you about the state of conservatism or the right in America that I can go on one of the most popular national radio shows in the United States with millions of listeners and feel comfortable saying that I'm conflicted on the issue of abortion and I've never been canceled for it? It really is amazing. Now, I've gotten emails of people saying, hey, Julie, I heard you say this. I got one actually this morning. From someone saying, I want you to reconsider. Here are some videos I'd like for you to watch. But, but it's always so conciliatory because on the right, if someone disagrees with us, we, we try to win them over based on the merits of our argument. And I think we have a greater view that disagreement is, is okay. And it's what, what makes our country our country. On the left, if you don't shout people down, you are somehow, somehow legitimizing bigotry. How did we get off on this thing? I know it's the general discussion of manners and— oh, I was talking about the Rosh Hashanah dinner.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's how we got onto that specifically. But back to the original thing was who causes the tension at the holiday table? Why would you do that? So you'll like this. I wonder— I, I know I've said this to you privately, and you'll know if I've said it publicly.

Yes, I'll know what episode, I'll know what time in the episode, the day we recorded the episode, the day the episode was aired.

So have I told you what I, what I actually said to my daughter-in-law one, uh, one time on the phone?

No.

Oh. Well, you might. I hope you don't. I want— I hope it's the first time I'm mentioning this. So I was talking to my wonderful daughter-in-law, my oldest son's— I have two daughters-in-law, my older one, and she's been my daughter-in-law much longer than the younger one for obvious reasons. So I was telling her, you know, I want you to know what I want to be in your and David— David is my son— in your and David's life. I want to be easy.

You said that. I'm sorry. Go on.

Go on. What? No, I've said it before. I don't know if I said it on Dennis and Julie.

You said to me recently— no, I don't think so. You said it to me privately, but not on this show. You, you did say to me privately recently that the one of the best gifts that you can give to people is being an easy presence in their lives.

So that's what I wanted to say.

And I— this That made a big impression on me. You're totally right. I have left-wing people in my life who I— but, but they're easy. And that makes all the difference.

Yes. This is not necessarily political.

No, no, no.

Right. It just—

I only said left-wing because I have people—

one of the great ambitions a human should have that I bring calm wherever I go.

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That's how people should think of it. Does so. But it's back to your self-awareness issue. Are you aware that you've injected tension into, let's say, even your marriage? Forget dinner parties, into your marriage. It's one thing that I know will never be said about me, even by people who hate me, and that is, you know, Dennis Prager, you really had to walk on eggshells when you were with him. Never, never. It's impossible. It would be a joke. And that's very intentional on my part to have the aspiration, even in the elevator, of being a calming presence in people's lives. It's a very beautiful ambition.

You know something I just thought of because you asked me a few minutes ago about someone I know who has a way of bringing up uncomfortable subjects, and I don't think this person realizes it. And you said, what do you— why do you think this individual does it? I think with some people, I think a lot of it goes back to their feeling unappreciated. That's just kind of a through line that I've noticed with with people who do this, that they feel misunderstood or unappreciated or like the people around them aren't grateful for them. And I think that instead of saying, I feel unappreciated, they want to make the people who they think don't appreciate them uncomfortable. I feel very appreciated and understood by my friends and my family, and I don't feel a need In addition to just the fact that I am mannered and I don't want to make people uncomfortable, period. I feel— I feel— I just feel very whole as a person, as corny as that sounds. And when you feel whole and happy and appreciated as a person, you don't— you say this on your Happiness Hour. Unhappy people make the world worse. Happy people make the world better. Yeah. Even if someone at the dinner table is you know, being rude or someone made a nasty comment about my job, I feel like I'm good, for lack of a better term. I feel like I have people in my life who get me and appreciate me, even if the people at the dinner table don't. And I don't feel a need.

Right, you don't feel a need, finish the sentence.

I don't feel a need to get into it or to make things, I'm happy to let some zingers go and just be polite for the greater good of the dinner.

I think you're right, but I'm trying to fully connect feeling underappreciated and causing havoc. You're tying them together. And yes, I don't see it. I think you're right, but I don't entirely see the connection.

I think that some people don't want to come— it would be more mature and more effective if they came out and said, I feel unappreciated by you, or I feel misunderstood by you. But they don't feel— they don't view that as an option, or they don't use that tool in their toolkit. And instead, I think they somehow, by making other people uncomfortable, they feel that they become significant. No, I just think it's that they, they are upset at the other person for not appreciating them, and it's somehow nice for them to make that other person feel uncomfortable. It's sort of like, you hurt me, I'm gonna hurt you.

He has a thought, Sean. He thinks it's more about control. They don't have control over— oh, that's good.

I didn't— I can't hear.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I hate to admit it, he has a good point.

It happens once a year.

Less.

What did he say?

These are, these are people who have so little control that this gives them control. I, I can— that I can wreck the dinner is an act of control.

Yeah, I mean, and look, obviously it gives you power.

Better than control, power. Yes, that's right. So as he said, he's right. I have no desire to control others. So I literally don't understand. It would be like saying to me, why does somebody eat grasshoppers? I don't understand that because I have no desire to eat grasshoppers. I have no desire to control others. So, and neither do you. So it's not self-praise. It's just I know me, and therefore it's hard for me to imagine it gives one satisfaction to do so.

But I, but, and I totally agree with Sean and I hear where he is coming from. And obviously this is not a one size fits all different. A lot of different people have combinations of these things or some, some more than others. But you don't feel a desire to have control over other people. A, because that's your nature and B, because I think that you—

I'm fulfilled.

Yeah. You're fulfilled.

That's what I mean. When you— No, that is your point. And I think, I think it's legit. I just wanted to make the— I think you're both right, and I'm not being, you know, just sweet guy. You're right, you're right. You're not differing in any event. There may— there are a lot of genesis or etiologies to this mode of behavior, but it demands explanation. Why did you screw up our Christmas dinner? That demands an explanation.

But a lot of the times when people are bringing up family issues, they're not just going to bring up like, you know, a family issue between family member A and family member B. I think oftentimes they're going to bring up a family issue that has to deal with them, an issue that they have with other people. Yes. And so I think that may come from, I feel misunderstood, I feel unappreciated, I don't feel fulfilled, and I'm going to use this as my moment to have the microphone and let you all know.

It's somewhat of a non sequitur because letting you all know was not going to make me fulfilled.

But of course it's not going to make you fulfilled, but we're analyzing why people do it.

So yeah, so let me summarize something here or bring it to one of the 5 determinative principles of my life. Actions matter infinitely more than feelings or thoughts. It is a crusade of my life. I have been somewhat successful. You— I don't think you could change that person's thinking.

No, you can't. That's another thing I've read.

But you can change their behavior.

Can you?

Yeah. Yes. Not everybody's. Back to my roadway analogy. Okay, sir, you're going slowly in, in the diamond lane, in the carpool. I never use carpool because it's too long.

I never use diamond.

You know why? Well, I, I— well, they all have diamonds all over the country, but including in L.A. You ever notice that? Because you probably never travel with anybody. Okay, so the reason I don't use carpool, because it's a lie. Nobody's carpooling, right?

It's true. It is true.

The whole thing is a fraud. We should talk about that. We live in a, in a, in a world of make-believe.

You're so right.

1% of those in that lane maybe are carpooling.

So funny. It's so true.

Of course, when I'm traveling today, of course I'm traveling. What if I'm traveling with my wife? Is it because she decided not to take her own car?

I brought my uncle to work today and we were— and I said, we can go in the carpool lane. And I thought, it's so stupid.

I'm taking him to work. It's a 100% lie, right? And, and, and, and they keep it. It's an unbelievable thing. Unbelievable to me that it's— everybody buys the lie that it's a carpool lane. Okay. Anyway, I want to bring it back to that. I— if I— here is the interesting question: which would be more effective? And it's almost a rhetorical question, it's so obvious. If we announced, if you are in the carpool lane and you are driving slower than the lane next to you in the non-carpool, in the regular highway, "Get out or you will get fined." Okay? Or we appeal to your understanding of the situation that you're blocking vast numbers of cars who want to go faster because they're in the carpool lane. Which do you think would be more effective? It's rhetorical. Everybody knows the behavioral approach is more effective. That is true almost everywhere in life.

—Okay.

—That, to get to my, the issue that has caused me a lot of grief, but I don't care because I have one life and I will tell the truth. The way in which you stop adultery overwhelmingly is to tell people not to do it. That it is wrong and God doesn't want you to do it and society doesn't want you to do it and your spouse doesn't want you to do it. It's wrong. Rather than don't you lust after anybody else. I am convinced that the behavioral approach is far more effective.

I hear you. Agreed. But how are you going to change the behavior of that unruly, narcissistic, unfulfilled, whatever, at the table, dinner table?

Somebody pulls them over and says, I don't care that you're angry at mom. Over X, Y, or Z.

You think that's gonna work? Shut up! You think that's gonna work?

Yes, much better than, "I want— let me deal with your unresolved feelings about mom." That's correct. That's why psychotherapy is usually useless, because they deal with feelings, not behavior.

Okay, but what if you can't— you can't pull aside— especially if, you know, I'm 24. If, let's say, the problem in my family was my great-uncle I can't. What am I going to do? Stop, pull him over, pull him aside and say stop. I can't. He's 75, hypothetically. What? How am I really going to control his behavior at that point? The ship has sailed.

You're talking about a 75-year-old person?

Yes, I'm using a hypothetical situation.

So don't use a 75. Do you want to—

let's say 25. Okay. But, but the point I'm making is if you're a mom and your kid is being disruptive, totally, you can pull your kid aside and go, knock it off. Oh, you're right. But if you're— yes.

Because we can't pull aside adults. We can't, right? But you can't pull aside an adult, then what you're saying is it's hopeless. I'm saying the only effective way is behavioral. Okay, the next time you want to say a lousy thing about somebody at the family, shut your mouth. Okay, I don't care if you're angry at mom or you think dad is an asshole. I don't care. We only care about your crapping on our dinner. That's what you're doing. That's more effective.

I agree with you. It's more effective, but I don't think it's going to work. I think once you're there at the table, the ship has sailed.

No, no, you don't say it at the table. Well, actually, it may help.

Well, the dinner's ruined. You say it after the dinner's ruined. The dinner already happened.

Yes, you say it before. Say it in August.

But some people just don't.

I agree. Look, that— hey, you're right. Oh, they don't know. What'd you say?

Control over them?

No, they don't want to control themselves. People do what they want to do. If I gave somebody $100,000 to shut their mouth and not bring up any family problem, how much you want to bet that they would shut up?

That's the—

that is, people don't control themselves because they don't want to control themselves. There's no such thing as I can't control myself. I agree.

That's my whole leftist thing. I think they, they realize that they're positions are crap, but they don't want to be brave and change them or change, you know, at least publicly come out against them because they think it personally and professionally advantages them. I agree with you that it's about want— wanting. I'm just talking about, you know, there are just— there are some people who are just too far gone. And if there's anything I've realized in my life, you just—

pathetic. You can't control—

there's only— there's only managing the situation.

I am. But I The reason I raise this is I want to go back to my whole thesis of life. You make a better world behaviorally, not emotionally. Yes, that's, that's the way you do it. Amen. Live with your miserable thoughts and don't act on them is much better than get rid of your miserable thoughts. Yeah, that's really, really, really hard. And it's, it's, it's such an element of self-suppression that in not every case is it worth it. What matters is how you behave at the dinner table, and I mean the dinner table of life. That's— life is a dinner table. Act appropriately. And it is the way you should raise your child. Not, oh, you shouldn't have those thoughts, is not the best way. If you have those thoughts, You have those thoughts. Don't act on them.

Mic drop.

If you want to rob a bank, I'm sorry you want to rob a bank. I'm more sorry if you rob the bank.

The final thing that I'll say, I know we have to wrap up soon about these dinners is, you know, we're focusing on people at the table who make uncomfortable remarks, who bring up family issues. Et cetera. But I think something also important is that— and this is the thesis statement of conservatism— you control the way that you react. And yes, at times there are people who have a way of making situations so uncomfortable that it's difficult to salvage the dinner or the gathering. But I think sometimes what happens in these, especially family dynamics, is like once things start descending, people think like, oh, well, eff it, it's, it's so bad. And then they allow it to descend even further. And I would just say there's, there, there is a way, even if some people get into an argument at the table, try to find a way in your own mind to move on and be happy for the rest of the meal. You are very, very good at that. It kind of, it is what it is mentality, right?

Just, and, and a behavioral What will work? Yes. Do I think that this person is a schmuck and fill out any bad term? Yes, I do. But it's irrelevant. I will try to defuse it behaviorally, not by, you know, it's really bad that you think that. I don't care what you think. Everybody has ambivalence towards parents. Everyone who has ever been born. That is the nature of the human condition. Grow up. Grow up, which is another radical notion in our non-grow-up society. Yes. Grow up, okay? You're not the only one with ambivalence towards your mother and father. That is the human condition, and your children will have ambivalence about you. That— and I take that as a given with my children, and I know they love me, and I know they respect me, and there's no doubt in my mind that they have issues. It is not possible not to have issues with a parent. It doesn't exist. That person has not been invented. Mm-hmm.

Do not succumb to the indulgence of resentment. That is what Charlotte Brontë— there's a line in Jane Eyre where she, she says that the indulgence of resentment. And I loved that because so many emotions, including resentment, are indulgences. Let it go. And I love what you just said. If someone at the table, your mother, your father, you know, says something that politically you don't agree with or makes a snide remark or makes you uncomfortable, effing deal with it. Parents' jobs are to make you uncomfortable. There you go. No, everyone has it. Everyone has it. Deal with it. Is it fair? Should they not have said it? Yes, they should not have said it. Get over it. Don't go to a safe space. Get over it.

Have a happy rest of your day. Tell everybody how to get in touch with us.

julie@julie-hartman.com is my email. I'm not going to ask Dennis this time for the sake of time.

That would ruin the dinner.

That's right. It would prolong the episode as well. You can follow me on Instagram and Twitter at Julie R. Hartman, and you can follow Dennis at the Dennis Prager. I have not been elevated to the status of the, but you are the Dennis Prager, and that is your handle, which I'm sure you're aware of. No, I'm not, but it doesn't matter. Happy holidays, everyone, and Merry Christmas. We're not there yet, but I know. Shalom.

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