Nachas

Your dog and a stranger are drowning. You can only save one. Who do you choose? Dennis Prager says your answer reveals everything about how you define right and wrong. In his new book, If There Is No God, Prager exposes the danger of emotion-based morality and why without objective truth, society descends into chaos. This isn't a religious book. It's a rational case for moral clarity in a confused age. If There Is No God from Dennis Prager. Order now at PragerStore.com.

Hello everybody, I'm Dennis Prager with Julie Hartman. The Dennis and Julie— is it show? No, podcast. Right. What is the official?

I like calling it a show.

You do? I never knew that.

I don't like the name podcast.

Well, everybody plus me is waiting for you to explain why. You can't, you know.

That's so true.

Yeah, you know, that was fair enough. That was pretty funny. I don't like the name podcast.

Silence. Yeah, it's like I have an idea.

That's exactly the perfect analogy.

Well, I don't like it because I think that everyone and their mother nowadays has a podcast. And sometimes when I tell people I have a podcast, you can kind of see their eyes glazing over because— so to immediately make a delinquent statement or to reference my delinquency off the air, as you know, and the viewers know, I am a big fan of the Real Housewives franchise, all of them. Salt Lake City, Beverly Hills, Orange County, New York City, Atlanta, New Jersey, everywhere. And in almost all of them, there are maybe 6 ladies per cast for each city. Almost all of them now have podcasts.

You know, I had no even inkling that we might even talk about this, but it is—

we never have an inkling we're going to.

No, you're right. That's a good point. No, no, it's worth noting. I think about this question: is it a positive or negative development? And I think it's more positive than negative, believe it or not.

More positive than negative? Wow.

I do.

I don't know if I agree.

I know, I know. And, and I, I'm not sure I agree, so I'm throwing it out.

So why do you say that?

The idea that just about anyone or everyone has access to an audience is not a bad thing. I mean, first of all, most of them have a tiny audience by definition, right? I mean, there's just a finite number of people. But I, first of all, I could think of so many worse things for people to do with their free time. Right. I mean, it is free time. So between you and me, a podcast is more elevating than Housewives of Atlanta.

Hey, hey.

No, no, I don't. I don't knock you.

I believe you.

I'm totally kidding.

You're right.

Right.

You're absolutely right.

People prepare to do it. In many cases, they will read up. They will try to in many cases look a little better. I mean, it doesn't bring out bad things, generally speaking. I mean, it does in bad people, but they're, they're narcissists. They're bad already. No, not even narcissism, just meanness and cruelty toward others. So I— look, it's, it's a free market of ideas, and some people will win their audience. I mean, if a guy— let's say a guy, and you know, he's into woodwork and he wants to do a podcast on, you know, building really great tables, and he'll find his niche if he's good. And I think he should, and it gives him a sense of self-worth. I like the idea that it's not confined to people like me who get paid to sit in front of a microphone.

That's true. And also the podcast space is so diverse that you can really find your niche, as you say. Like, yes, you know, there are so many self-help podcasts and book, you know, podcasts on great literature. And it really is an amazing way to learn. So I agree with you. I do think one of the issues with it is, well, two things. Number one, I think for some, and I'm thinking of my dear Housewives, it can really breed narcissism where people, a lot of people use it as an opportunity to share their, I hate this word, but passion or their interests. And that's great. But some people just use it as an excuse to just talk about themselves.

Right. But I don't think they'll get a following.

True. That's true. Well, that's the first thing. And the second thing is— and again, this, this second one is both good and bad. You can find your person who you— your commentator, let's say political commentator who you love listening to, but you really won't be exposed very much to the other side.

That's a big danger.

And we are all—

but that exists already.

I know, but I think it exists because of this world. And so for instance, one of the things that absolutely stuns me is sometimes I will ask my friends who are on the left, you know, do you know Jordan Peterson? And they'll go, no.

That is amazing.

That is amazing that they don't know who Jordan Peterson is. And I'm not trying to say that disparagingly to them. I mean, I'm sure they would list people and I would say, I have no idea who that person is.

No, but they probably don't. I don't think they would. I think we do know their people.

Well, I used to agree with you. I'm not so sure anymore because there's this guy and actually, interestingly, I Googled him the other day and saw that you did a show with him. David Pakman.

Yeah.

I had no idea who he was.

Right. Never heard of him, by the way.

He has a massive following and he's a liberal.

So that's that. So he was one of the very, very, very few popular people on the left who has invited me on. And I said yes because I, I looked him up, but it's true, I did not know. That's a good point.

You didn't know him?

Yeah, no, I didn't. That's correct. And by the way, it was a very cordial—

I know, I watched it. It was very cordial, the way it should be.

The way it should be. That's exactly right.

It was accredited both ways.

Along with the Young Turks, who were very—

Well, I hadn't heard of the Young Turks until you went on there. Oh, no, that I did.

Yeah, those I knew about.

So I actually think it's true that it runs on both sides, but we all kind of have— and I think I think, by the way, to bring up a sore subject, but I think that's part of the reason why there are so many young people who are marching for and chanting Intifada and who are so vehemently anti-Israel because they follow their one person and that's the only information that they're getting. So it's that, and I'll give you another example. 40, 50 years ago, I wasn't around, to speak from personal experience, but so I understand, everyone in America knew, really knew the same famous people. They all knew Johnny Carson, they all knew Walter Cronkite, you know, I'm trying to think of another one.

Well, certainly, you know, the actors and so, but yeah.

And now we're so kind of atrophied, we don't, and divided.

I do blame the left for that. See, these were all liberals. Cronkite was a liberal. And while Johnny Carson, we don't know, to his great credit.

But wait, why do you blame the left for what?

For this division? I mean, they— what do you expect? Will Americans— will most Americans tune in if you say men give birth? If you say America is systemically racist? If you lie to the American people about America? And then they're supposed to tune you in every night. I mean, the, the AP, Associated Press, wrote a piece about how Claudine Gay, right, that that's her name. You know, the president of Harvard, former, former president of Harvard, that she was, she was gotten rid of because the new weapon of conservatives is plagiarism. It's so convoluted. It's not her testimony in Congress that she couldn't condemn those who advocate mass murder of Jews, genocide of Jews. She can condemn them because she needs to know the context. Right. That, that wasn't an issue. And by the way, since when is plagiarism not an issue? Right. I've written 10 books and 1,000, literally 1,000 articles. It's all— they're all on the internet. I am so careful to give attribution, not just because of legal matters. It's the moral thing to do.

As you say, the Talmud says that, yes, whoever cites a source, righteousness to the world.

Yes, that's right.

I hear you on the present division that— and look, obviously both sides vilify each other, but I think the left especially is so— I mean, look, on left-wing college campuses, they shout down and try to cancel conservative speakers. At most conservative campuses, to the extent that there are that many more, but you know, like in the South, there are these big conservative schools. They don't— you don't ever see them marching, shouting down. So I totally agree with you on that. However, I do think that this— this— when I mean division, I don't just mean politically. I literally just mean like this, the sense that we seek out our own sources, our own news. I don't think that is the fault of either political side. I think it really is largely because of this new media space that we're in where you no longer tune in and you have 5 channels on the TV. You can go to anybody you want and they can be spewing whatever misinformation they spew and there's no accountability. When you— before Instagram and Twitter and all these social media platforms and YouTube and Rumble and whatever the heck else is out there, you had only a few news stations, ABC, NBC, you know, etc. And they, they had to get it right because the all, you know, the American people were relying on them for their news and there was a bigger penalty if they didn't get it right. But now it's just, you have millions and millions of people who are in this space and the standards are not as high.

Well, they own the media. I mean, look, the left, you mean? Yes.

Well, of course. No, no.

So, so a person listening to NPR thinks that he knows she knows what's happening in the world. That's what's ironic.

Oh, I totally agree with you there. But again, I think a lot of this has been fueled by the media space. But yes, I agree that, I mean, these channels are despicable.

So anyway, I do want to get back though, just for a moment. So you do agree with me having heard my arguments?

Yeah, I do.

You know, a lot of people having a podcast is not a bad thing.

The most convincing thing you said was that it's, it's a better use of time than many other things.

Well, that's right, that is. It's not a little thing.

No, not at all.

And it, it makes you start to think more seriously. So here's the interesting thing. Let's say somebody has 300 viewers. On a podcast. I mean, so what— this is a great question in life generally. So let's say you have regularly 300 viewers. Yeah, that's considered very low, right? Correct. Yeah, right. So I have two interesting questions about that. Let us say I invited you, Julie, Okay, forget the podcaster. You, Julie. I said, Julie, 300 people are going to show up for a speech of yours. You would not think that's a little.

Oh, absolutely.

Isn't that interesting?

It is.

And why is it any different?

I totally think about that with my own show. You know, if I see 500 people watched, it seems very low. But then when you told me that, I went, oh my gosh, 500 people. And it's 500 people took time out of their day.

Yes.

To sit and watch me. Yeah, I do think it's a little different though, because I don't quite know how views work on YouTube. I think sometimes it's like if you click on the video and you watch it for a minimum amount of seconds, then it counts as a view. So I think it's, it's not always clear if, you know, all 500 are watching.

That is a very—

whereas if 500 people show up to your speech, unless they start, you know, yeah, walking to the exit, They're there.

That's right. No, that's fair. So I don't know the answer to that. That's a very fair point. Is it 2-minute, let me check this out, or by accident I showed up at your channel?

You know, I'll give you another criticism I have of podcasts. And by the way, somebody listening could say to me, well, you know, you're the pot calling the kettle black. You know, why are you saying this when you do this? But I see so many people out there giving their opinions on, like, I was on some, there was some actress and I was looking at her Instagram recently. She just popped up on my feed and then I saw that she has a podcast and then I listened to, really piqued my curiosity. I listened to it and then I looked at some of her summaries and one of it, and she was on the left, but that doesn't even really matter. But she said, you know, I, I implore the, you know, Israeli army to cease their bombing in Gaza. I implore world leaders to do— and I just thought, like, what the hell do you know about, about politics?

Well, that's a fair—

you were an actress for 25 years. Now you're entering this new space and these— okay, so grandiose, this idea, like, I call on the Israeli government. What the hell do you know about the Israeli government?

Right. And so here's the— here's a good answer. I couldn't agree with you more, believe me. However, how is she different from the Secretary General of the United Nations who is saying the exact same thing?

Totally, totally.

So it— he's a nut. The Secretary General is a woke crackpot. He's a fanatic on global warming. He would starve the third world rather than have them use fossil fuels.

And the UN is always, you know, voting Israel as like the worst country on the face of planet Earth.

Right. But Israel has been condemned more than any country in UN history.

Iran is the country head of like the ethics committee in the UN.

Yes. Iran.

Human rights.

Yeah.

Are you kidding?

Right. Or the women's— Saudi Arabia, I think, had the women's thing one year.

When they killed Mahsa Amini, the 22-year-old girl, because there was a strand of hair poking through her hijab. They're the head of the ethics. Are you crazy? But I just want to say quickly, because I can understand some people listening are like, well, Julie, isn't— you know, you have a podcast where you give your opinions on political and non-political things. But what I really try to do is approach it through a perspective of we're exploring, exploring this together, as opposed to this kind of hard and fast. I mean, look, there are some things that I'm very, very, you know, clear about. For instance, giving— I, I think it is evil to give puberty blockers to minors and have them undergo gender transition surgeries. If you want to do that when your brain is fully formed and you're an adult, Go ahead. But for kids, no. So there's some things I'm very hard-lined about. But when it comes to like these global things, when I see people on these shows who don't have any background in any of this saying, I, I, you know, use my platform to implore these, it, it strikes me as very arrogant. And I think, I think it would behoove all of us to kind of know our lanes.

Well, You know, let me just say on your behalf, the issue is not background. The, the fact is that you have immersed yourself in the study of the contemporary world.

Oh, you have no idea how much.

I have an idea. That's why I'm saying this. Dennis Prager here with a man I have come to admire for his work. So when I asked him, what do you do? This is the title he gave: Wealth Architect.

Very simply put, I am a wealth architect that helps my clients accelerate the way they grow your wealth. It's not how much you make, it's how much you keep. The Internal Revenue Code is embedded with a number of things that you can take advantage of. It's what I call playing tax chess. We take the time to play tax chess in your favor. We give our clients unbiased independent advice across all areas in their financial life because we have no incentive to sell anything.

I was taken enough and impressed enough to have you do my work, and you have in fact saved me serious amount of money. CharlesDombek.com/DennisPrager. If they had, I would have respect for them.

You're right, that's fair.

So the issue is not did you go to college or what college did you go to or what did you major in.

What I meant by the background was You know, they don't know anything. No, I read the newspaper.

Half— they did a— they actually did a study or some polls, I should say. So you're saying from the river to the sea, Palestine should be free. What river and what sea did you have in mind?

Oh, I know.

Most of them have no idea what river or what sea.

It's— it's—

that's right.

It's horrible. It's horrible. Yes. No, I mean, I read 3 newspapers cover to cover every morning. I read like 2 books a week. I watch, you know, I'm really, I, I really—

Right. So you're right about that. And it is what it is.

But, but when I see an actress like going into politics—

Well, this is, by the way, all of this is, is relatively new, right? For my parents' generation, and even for me as a kid, which would be my parents' generation, actors almost never spoke out on politics.

Yes, yes.

And that's because they believed their role in life was to be an actor, to bring joy, to bring meaning. Yes. So, so you'll love my theory. You, um, this I don't think you've ever heard.

I have heard it. You've told it on D&J.

Say it.

That they, that many actors and actresses, the political ones, don't view their job as having enough consequence, and that's why they speak on political things.

Do you remember this? Seriously, do you remember everything that I say? And I don't mean just me, that anyone says to you?

If it makes an impression on me, if I think it's a good idea.

Oh, good answer.

You know, I've been finding lately, especially because I read an insane amount, I'm finding that I'm forgetting things that are superfluous. Like, I, I, my friends are saying to me recently that I'm recounting stories to them again, which, by the way, you do. You will.

Oh, I do that all the time.

All the time. You'll, you'll say like, oh, I know, I got to tell you this.

Yeah, okay, go ahead.

What did he say? All old people do that?

No, no, he said, uh, All bold people do that. Yeah.

Well, you're definitely one of those things.

Exactly.

Maybe even two.

Anyway, no, no, he's right about all old people, but that's— I've done it when I did it when I was your age.

Well, that's— well, I'm doing it when I'm my age and I'm telling friends stories.

I don't remember what I've said to somebody. I don't know how you— how can you be expected to remember?

If I have a deep conversation with someone, I will totally remember it. But if I'm, you know, recounting like, oh, I, you know, I had this interaction with this person, or I went on this date or something, I'm telling a friend, they'll go, Julie already told me.

But right, so you remember— okay, you remember the important stuff.

Yeah, that's you.

And that's what I do.

Yes.

Yes, that's fascinating. So, but anyway, it's worth repeating, if you believed that being an actor was significant, you wouldn't—

it is—

be preoccupied. Of course it is. You wouldn't— every profession is significant, and I don't mean that as as a patronizing comment. What? Tell me, what profession is it? You'll love this.

Work. Is sex work a significant—

Okay. All right. Well, is sex work— Okay. That's—

You said every profession.

Yes. All right. Every legal profession is selling weed.

Selling weed is legal.

Oh, yeah. No, no, that's fair. That's fair. Virtually every line of work. And I have a very interesting little anecdote on that.

Yeah.

My brother, who was a professor of medicine, very accomplished, medical school. He's a very big doctor. He said to me many years ago, do you know, Dennis, I just want to tell you, there is a group that has done much more for health than doctors. I'm thinking, really?

Yeah.

Who can you guess? I know I didn't tell you this. Sanitation workers.

Oh, well, that's true.

Isn't that fascinating?

I think I was, I was thinking the other day, people who pick up our trash, they are the— they have the most important job in the country.

Well, my brother would argue that it has done more for health than doctors. Oh, I mean, I mean, just to give you an example. So, but back to the actor, they believed, I think, generation or two ago, people who were in Hollywood or any acting thought this is significant.

Yes.

Now you get your significance from taking a position against Israel.

Well, I, you know, that or of course, you know, for George Floyd. Well, I was watching some reruns of the Oscars because when I was younger, We— I remember, you know, from like ages 5 to 11 or 12, we loved the Oscars.

I mean, we did Oscar parties.

It was such a highlight.

Nobody watches. It's sickening. The left— it's another example of the left ruins everything it touches.

Nobody watches them anymore.

That's correct. All because of the left. I don't want to hear a speech on why I'm a white a-hole from another old actor.

Absolutely. And I was watching a rerun because I I Googled like political speeches at the Oscars and basically what popped up was the entirety of the Oscars. But I was watching one of these speeches and this was from 2016 or 2017 and this, you know, producer got up and won the Oscar for whatever, best producer. And he said, you know, I just try to show through my work that, you know, we need to embrace love and not hate. We shouldn't, you know, we need to let people in, not build walls which keep people out. And then you have all these sanctimonious people in the audience going, going like that.

You know, that, by the way, was one of the— one of the stupidest statements.

It was. And by the way, they've turned on that now. It's amazing. I remember in 2016 when Trump was running for president and I was a liberal then and he was talking about building a wall. People freaked out.

Yeah.

By the way, I hate to say it, but I'm going to be honest, myself included.

Right.

I remember watching that and I wonder how it could be so stupid.

Yes.

And I remember watching that and going, This is so cruel. Like, how could he do this? And this is so stupid and it's not going to work. Like, well, I can't believe I thought that way. And now it's amazing we're seeing people like John Fetterman. Indeed, President Biden is commencing restarting the building of the border wall.

He wants to get reelected.

Right. But, but anyway, back to the Oscars thing. It's just like your job. People need to know their lanes. You know, like, listen, you will never hear me talk about biology or chemistry or any of that on my show because I don't know a damn thing about those subjects. You know, I sort of know my, my lane.

I mean, and by the way, you won't hear me offer a critique of acting.

Totally. Same with me. I don't know it. Or comedy. I don't really know a damn thing about any of those things. So when I see these people at these Emmys and Oscars, you know, it's just like, stop. And also a lot of, a lot of not just these individuals, but their shows, their movies have gotten so political. You even look at the, the, the ones that are being nominated and it's all, it's like, you know.

Yeah. Well, well, they, they paid a price in that way too.

But no, it's, it's staggering. To see how no one watches those.

It— I know that we've talked about this, but it doesn't matter. I'll tell you why it doesn't matter. Because without repetition, you don't learn anything. It's true for me.

I need to remember that on my show.

Repetition.

I fear if I'm repeating—

Me too. I still think to this day—

That I'm boring people.

Yes. Like they'll say, why would I listen to you? You said that 3 years ago. There's really that voice in me. Oh, I apologize for—

I said it 3 episodes ago.

Yeah, but that's— people are bombarded with messages, right? It's very hard to remember.

You have to do— you have to hear it a few times to really have it integrate.

Otherwise, ads wouldn't work. Think of how many times they've heard the same ad.

So what was the thing that you said? We've already talked about this, but it doesn't matter.

The America that I knew that you don't know.

I know it's sad to me.

It, it's that— so that's my question, which I know we've discussed. Is it sadder for you or sadder for me? Is it sadder for the one who knew it?

I think I used to say it was sadder for you, but I— not to throw a pity party, I, I count myself as one of the most privileged. No, no, it's not a pity party, but I, I think it's sorry because I, I've actually even through my life I used to know a different America.

Yes.

And I feel like with each—

so you can only imagine.

I know, I know.

And by the way, I can say this. I knew it my whole life. I knew how terrific this country was.

Well, you know, so I have a group text with some friends from college, and, you know, I have great, great college friends. You've met many of them, which is very, very touching to me that you were able to do that. And you've been so kind to them. Thank you. But I have several different group texts with various friends. And one of them, there's maybe 6 or 7 of us. And it occurred to me recently, we haven't talked at all about the Claudine Gay thing.

So, oh, and you're—

and we're all Harvard friends.

Yes.

Yes. So Claudine Gay, former president of Harvard, she just resigned. You were talking about it a few moments ago. I'm just, you know, setting the background. She, she gave a mealy-mouthed condemnation of the 34 student organizations at Harvard which signed that despicable petition saying that the Israeli regime is entirely responsible for the terrorist attack on October 7th. She gave that congressional testimony where she said the genocide of Jews depends on the context. And then she was, you know, in this whole plagiarism scandal and she resigned after 95 days of being president. Wouldn't you think that would be something that we would bring up in our group text? And we haven't, no one has brought it up.

Right.

And I know not to bring it up.

Harvard grad.

Yes. And, and that struck me.

That's very interesting.

And so I went on the side and I texted one of my friends who's in it, who we, and she and I talk about politics together. Um, she's a liberal, but You know, believe it or not, I'm fully capable of being friends with liberals as long as they're not leftists.

I don't— Yeah, well, that's a big difference.

There's a big difference. And so she— I said to her, don't you think it's a little strange that we haven't talked about this Claudine Gay thing?

Oh, I'm fascinated. Yeah.

And I said, I think it's because of me.

You said—

I did. And they— and my friend wrote back, it's totally because of you. And it's because— and I realize in that group text, we never talk about anything that gets in the stratosphere of political, which, by the way, I kind of—

Wait a minute. Why was it because of you?

Because I don't think that they want to hear my opinions. I think they know that I'm going to have a conservative opinion. And, you know, it just occurred to me.

So your friend thinks it was unfair that she was picked on?

The other people in the group text?

No. Or just the friend you talked to?

No, no, no. Not the friend I talked to. The friend I talked to is totally on board with me.

Speaking?

Oh, we were on the side because you said she was on the left.

Oh, okay.

Yeah, she's a liberal.

She's all right. But she's on board with the— yeah, she's the resignation of the president.

And so she's one of the 7 or 6 or 7 members of this group text.

So, so she was saying to you, Julie, they know your opinion. They don't want to start a fight.

Yeah. And it's— and you know what? It just occurred to me that is so sad because you know me and I hope the audience knows me by now. I'm not a combative person. You know, when I argue about things, I'll certainly be strong-willed in my arguments, but I never get, you know, I make sure to temper my language. Some people get really incendiary and they'll like, you know, call, you know, they'll be like, "Imbecile Claudine Gay." Like, I wouldn't do that. I would know better not to do that. It's just not who I am. And it just occurred to me, as much as I love these friends, and I really do love them, It's just sad that we now live in this country where we can't have those kinds of discussions, you know, because one of the members is conservative and we can't open that can of worms and we can't hear her opinion. It's like, it's just an old American—

I would love to hear your friends from Harvard's opinion.

Yeah, I'm sure some of them would think that this is racist, that for us—

You're kidding.

No, I'm not kidding. Not, not many of my friends, but I think one or two of of those individuals.

Would have bought that line.

Yeah. Or would think that it was amazing that she was unfairly targeted by the right. Yeah. But, but by the way, even if they think that, I would love to engage in a discussion with them and I would view it as, but we view political disagreements.

So to give you an idea of how different the worlds of perception of the left and right are, the right, well, start with the left. The left believes she was fired or asked to resign because she's Black.

Yes.

The right believes she was hired in the first place because she's Black.

Yes.

Well, so it's literally the opposite in every possible way.

I know, I know. But it's just I never understood. If I were sitting across from a communist, I would want to talk with them. I, I, and I would be right. And I may very strongly disagree with them, but I certainly wouldn't get disagreeable.

There's— I can't think of a group virtually any group that invited me to speak, I would speak to because my answer would be, if they're willing to hear me, I need to speak.

I would talk to a Nazi.

That's what I think.

If I would talk to a member of Hamas, I talk to anybody. Anybody.

Right. So it's always somewhat of a farce. So-and-so spoke in front of this group and it proves that they agree with the group. That's not true.

And what do you mean?

Oh, no, they will do that. A politician. Oh, well, 5 years ago he spoke to a states' rights group. So he's clearly a racist, though that's very common.

Oh, interesting.

Whom did you speak to? So you can't lament that we don't speak to our political foes if, if we speak to our allies and then get lambasted for it.

See, so I've been really lucky. I have guests frequently on Timeless, and I've been really lucky that most of the guests who I've reached out to have said yes. But a few have said no, very small number. I've actually been surprised how most people are very willing. I'm very grateful. But there was a show I did on, on cemeteries, like interesting cemeteries around the country, including Forest Lawn, which is a stone's throw from here. Amazing cemetery and burial practices in the United States. Because as you know, half of my show is nonpolitical. I like talking about anything in life. So I did this show and there was a book that I read that was so good and interesting talking about burial practices and cemeteries. And so I reached out to the author and I said, would you be willing to come on the show? Loved your book. I just, I think a lot of people would find it to be interesting. And he very politely declined. And that really interested me. Like, you know why? I wasn't offended, but I just kind of wanted to understand. And I think it's because I do do some political commentary and he would be seen even if he was just coming on my show to talk solely about his cemetery book. We would never bring, bring up, you know, right versus left stuff. I think he kind of viewed it as he would be seen as endorsing.

See, that's their thing. That's not so sad. Our team doesn't think if a conservative goes on a left-wing show, it's a bad reflection.

No. Yeah, it's, it's a crazy—

though that's a really important distinction to be made. When I went on, you just mentioned the David Pakman Show.

Yeah.

The— if a conservative even knew it, it would have been a positive. Oh, good for Prager. Well done. We need, we need conservatives to speak to that audience.

Right.

Their guy comes on you like this guy here. Oh, You're— you've been tainted.

Yes. You caught the bigot virus.

The bigot virus. Exactly right. Well, there was a professor at Harvard many years ago. Alan could clue you in more on the details. Who?

Alan?

Alan Estrin.

Oh, sorry. I couldn't hear you. Yeah. MyPillow is excited to bring you their biggest bedding sale ever. Get the Giza Dream bedsheets for as low as $29.98. A set of pillowcases for only $9.98. Rejuvenate your bed with a MyPillow mattress topper for as low as $99.99. They also have blankets in a variety of sizes, colors, and styles. They even have blankets for your pets. Get duvets, quilts, down comforters, body pillows, bolster pillows, and so much more, all with the biggest discounts ever. They're also extending their money-back guarantee until March 1st, 2024, making them great gifts for your friends, your family, and everyone you know. So go to mypillow.com and use the promo code Hartman, or call 1-800-566-6745, and you'll get big discounts on all MyPillow bedding products, including the Giza Dream bed sheets, for as low as $29.98. And get all your shopping done now while quantities last.

So, uh, I rarely invite people who write books on happiness because I'm sort of a happiness expert. I claim that. And I've written a book on it and I've read much on it and I've, you know, I talk about it for 25 years every week on my Happiness Hour. So I don't generally invite people who write books on happiness because what am I going to ask them? Where do we differ? And if we feel the same, it's not going to be very enlightening. But there was a Harvard professor who wrote a book on happiness that I was intrigued buy. And so Alan, who does all the inviting, invites him, and he gets back to us and says, no, I looked it up on the internet, and, you know, I'm not going to go on a right-wing show, something to that effect.

You're talking about happiness.

I know, happiness. And to give you an idea, he would have sold more books coming on my show than he probably did before he was on my show. Many authors have told me that mine was the one of the two most successful shows of selling books that they've ever been on.

Shows you they really do think that we're Nazis.

That's right. They really do. Yeah.

But then look at— this is, this is the thing I've talked about this so many times. The double think. You think, you think conservatives are Nazis with scant evidence. But then we have these people literally chanting for the eradication of the Jewish state. And it's like, oh, whatever.

That's right.

That's totally fine.

That's correct.

So totally pivoting, like the Friends scene. Did you ever watch Friends? Pivot, pivot.

Not the— I don't know the pivot line.

Okay. It's pretty famous. It's like What? Sean is laughing that Dennis would ever watch Friends.

But oh, please, everybody watches Friends.

Can you name one Friends character?

Yes, Charles. He asked me to name one person and I did.

Go ahead, really try. Name one Friends character.

Um, one minute. Jerry?

Joey?

Joey, that's what I meant. I meant Joey.

Joey, Chandler, Ross, Monica, Phoebe, and Rachel. Anyway, um, totally pivoting. Yeah, yeah, it's a fun— it's a fun job. Um, I was so honored to have your son on my show recently, and I know him obviously from off the air. I've been blessed to spend time with him. But we talked about his addiction and recovery right after he went on your fireside chat and talked about addiction and recovery. And he— see, he's another person who has started a podcast, but he, he is so wise and so vulnerable, and God bless him, unafraid to talk about what he's been through. And the wisdom that he shares is applicable to everyone, not just people who have struggled with addiction or know people who have struggled with addiction. But by the way, all of us at the very least know someone who has. I really believe that, that, that almost everybody in the world has, has a tie to it. But I said to him at the end of the show, because he launched his own podcast called AP Unfiltered, which I watch. He is so eloquent and articulate. He really is.

AP is Aaron Prager. AP.

Yes. And I've watched it and he, you know, he'll talk about addiction and recovery, but he also talks about politics and his take on news. And I said to him, your experience and your—

your—

the wisdom that you've gleaned from your addiction and recovery journey is so applicable to the moment that we're living in now because we— I think that we live in a society where a lot of people have addictions. Not just to substances, to social media, to porn, to television, to gambling, to victimhood, to activism. And so he— 3 things, right? And so I think his worldview from his— it's great just for life advice, but I also think he is especially well positioned to kind of explain some of the pathologies which are infecting our our public sphere now. But I, I know that you were interested in talking about that one line he had on your show.

Did he mention that line on yours?

I think I brought it up. And I also want to say kudos to you on your fireside chat. You were very open, and you're always open, but I was very impressed with the questions you asked him. I mean, you said to him, do 'Did you ever fear, or did you ever think, that I favored David, my biological— that I loved David more than you? Because David is my biological son and you're adopted.' You said, 'Was there, was there anything more I could have done, or should I have done something differently?' Yes, it's an amazing conversation. But you asked him—

you pick up on everything. I love it.

Well, it's— I mean, that so many people would be really afraid, especially with the amount of people who hate you.

And who are, who wanna look for ways to say, you know, oh, they, they, I would say in general, they know as much about me as, well, left-wing media reported.

Yep.

That's it. That's the extent of what they know.

They would have no idea that you have an adopted son. They have no idea that you're the godfather to gay couple's child. There, there's so many things about you that they wouldn't understand. Anyway, you asked him on that show, when he hit rock bottom and then decided to reach out for help. And his line, which should be a t-shirt, is that I hit rock bottom when I realized that I had nobody else to blame for my problems except me. Except me. If everyone in the world could hear that, we would be a happier, healthier society. You are, and especially in America, you know, and we've talked about this, when if you go to other places in the world, you will be held back for being a woman. You will be held back for being an ethnic minority or a religious minority. You will be held back for being an immigrant. You will be held back from being gay. That is actually the norm in most parts of the world. But in the United States of America in 2024, You are not largely, if at all, held back for being any of those things. And yet we are population out of any other in the world is the most population that is convinced that they are held back by those things.

Well, that, that is why I fear for the society. It hit too many people. At least half the population does blame others for their problems. It begins with parents, and then it goes to the country, and it's systemic racism if you're a racial minority. It's capitalism. I mean, there's always something to blame other than you?

Climate change, homophobia.

Oh, all of, all of the phobias.

Racism.

Yeah, all of them. It was such a powerful answer. I mean, even I didn't expect it. I knew that he has adopted that attitude, but I didn't know that he associated that with his turnaround. In other words, he could not stop being an addict till he stopped blaming others for his problems and started blaming himself. That's what everyone needs to hear. And, and you, none of you can get a, a healthier, happier, or a better human being, um, unless you reach that point. Stop blaming others for your problems.

And he's also consistent because we were talking about when he was younger and I, and I, I said on the show, I feel comfortable asking you really personal questions because A, I'm honored to know and love your family so well. And I know that you guys are open people and B, I watch the fireside chat and I know that you guys are comfortable going there, but I said, you know, like, did, did your parents have any sense of how bad your addiction was? And did they ever try to step in and intervene? And he said, honestly, Julie, I don't remember. And even— he said, even if they tried to, there was nothing that they could do, right? And that's what he said. He said, you know, like, for people— because, you know, I have people in my life close to me who have struggled with addiction, and, and it's so hard to look at them and know that they're struggling and What the heck can I do? But Aaron said, it's— you can't do anything. And that's sort of the case with this addiction mindset in general, addiction to victimhood. There's nothing that you can really do to—

I visited the rehab center in Pennsylvania where he still lives. I visited it because they asked the loved ones of the patient to visit. By the way, I thought it would be all, almost all parents. I was one of the only parents there.

Yeah, you said that on the prior show.

It was amazing.

So why do you think?

Because there were so many older people. It's not just kids who were addicted. It's vast numbers of adults. The spouse came, the best friend came, the cousin came, the mother came, but an old mother or old father. Anyway, they— the message of the weekend to us was you can't do anything except screw it up, except enable them. Basically, that you can do, but you can't do anything really to get them out of their addiction. And I took it seriously. I, I, you know, that I'm a big liver of the Serenity Prayer. You know the Serenity Prayer?

I don't know it by heart, but the gist is, give me the strength to deal with things that I can— that are in my control, and give me the serenity to know the things I can't control.

It's 3 parts.

I know.

Yeah, but it doesn't matter. But, but synopsis of the Serenity Prayer: grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, to deal with, I said, courage the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

Yeah. What was it like for you? Did you see when Aaron was growing up that he was, was addicted to things? I mean, did you suspect? Was it kind of out in the open? Did he hide it?

Well, he, he didn't start, I think, till about 11 or 12. Which is pretty early, obviously. But, but he was born to a meth addict. And I have a feeling that that played a role. Certainly. Yeah. But there were, you know, we hug and say I love you now so regularly. And that was not part of his life. As a child, which I always was confused about.

You mean he didn't do that?

Yeah.

Wow. Even before he started using—

that's right. And I, and I never quite figured out why. I still don't know. I'm going to ask him.

People, you know, we just— as I get older, the more and more I realize we have no bleeping idea the crosses that people are bearing on a daily basis.

Well, that's, that's in my happiness book. I have a chapter on, on envy and how, and how aside from just being wrong, that's obvious how foolish it is because you don't know anything about what's going on in that person's life or certainly in their mind. As the great Helen Taluschkin—

I know I was thinking of her.

The only happy people I know are people I don't know well. That was such a brilliant line. I heard it in high school from Joseph, my friend's mother, sitting in her kitchen in Brooklyn, New York. Joseph and I were ruminating over who were the happy and unhappy kids in our grade. And then she closed the refrigerator door and said, boys, the only happy people I know are people I don't know well. And, and that was so intelligent.

It was so— it is a very—

what do you, what do you know?

It's true. Where did you live every day in fear and in torment when, when you knew that Aaron— I mean, so can you just help me understand, like, when, when did you kind of realize that there was a problem?

Well, I realized there were problems with him, but I didn't know their genesis. I, I It was clear there were problems.

You mean addiction problems?

He wouldn't go— no, no, problems. There were just problems that they may have emanated from addiction. I did not know, but there were problems. I mean, he couldn't go to a regular school. We sent him to a special school and, you know, at a woman's home with other kids who, you know, just couldn't make it in a regular school.

May I ask why? Why couldn't he make it?

He, he wouldn't he would act out and he wouldn't do the work. I mean, I didn't care if he got good grades. Grades never meant anything to me, but he just— it was not feasible. So I knew at a very early age, but I didn't— I, I didn't put addiction together with the problems.

When did you realize or find out that he was an addict?

It's a very good question, and I don't know the answer. I'll ask him.

He does— he doesn't remember.

When I— you asked him, when did your dad find out?

Yeah, yeah, I, I asked, you know, like, how did this all kind of unfold and did they ever intervene? Or any— he says, I don't remember. Yeah, it's interesting how you, how you block out.

Well, it's not just— yes, I think that that's part of it. Remember, I had not had this in my childhood. I had not had an addict in my life, right? So I didn't know the telltale signs, right? And if, if it was ever raised, he said, oh, I'm not using anymore. And, and he could sort of fake it, right?

Well, one of the things Aaron said that I thought was so intelligent, and as someone who again knows someone in my life who struggled with this, it's, it's so true. Aaron said, I, as the addict, didn't realize, or kind of didn't, didn't realize when it crossed over from being intense partying into addiction.

Oh, interesting.

And I look at that person in my life, and it was, you know, now I kind of look back and I see the signs, but I always thought, okay, they're having, you know, they're letting loose, they're having a little too much fun, they're maybe go overboard, they're gonna outgrow it, or it's they're stressed in their life, and then you look back and you go, that— those were all of the— that was the addiction, you know? Those are all of the signs, but I just totally missed it. And, and so it's—

well, why, why are you saying that? Did that happen in your life?

Yeah.

Really?

Oh yes. I saw someone who I was worried about for months, and this person was drinking, you know, using weed excessively. And it was always— it was like, it was bad, but it wasn't quite at the point where I was like, okay, this, this is crossing a line.

My wife would tell me, and she was right, he said, why do you ask? They always lie. And that's true. Addicts always lie. I mean, it's just, it's part of the process, right?

And it's not, it's not like a malicious thing. No, they're so—

they, they they don't want you to know, and they may lie to themselves.

Well, another thing that was so great talking with Aaron is, is the, the role that God plays in his recovery, right? And how his group that he was in, it was such a God-centered approach. One of the things he said was, now in a lot of recovery programs, they're trying to get rid of the God stuff because it's, you know, the cultural left.

It's another example of everything. And they're not having something better. What are they going to replace higher power slash God with?

There are many good reasons to buy gold and silver. Bank failures, digital currency volatility, emerging market countries trying to topple the dollar as the global reserve currency. Julie Hartman here for AmFed Coin and Bullion, Dennis's choice for precious metals. If you asked AmFed owner Nick Grovich to simplify the case for precious metals, He'll tell you that when President Roosevelt recalled the gold in circulation and paid people with paper money, they received a $20 bill for a $20 gold piece. Today, that $20 bill won't even fill half of your gas tank, but the gold piece is worth about $2,000. Which would you rather own? Now let's simplify the reasons to use AmFedCoin and bullion. Nick's been in the industry for over 42 years, and he's proud of providing transparency and fair pricing to build trusted relationships. If you're interested in buying or selling, call Nick and his team at Amped Coin and Bullion, 1-800-221-7694, americanfederal.com, americanfederal.com. And Aaron calls God good orderly direction. That is so true. That is exactly what God is. God is good orderly direction. All of us follow things. The question is, what are you following? That's what people don't realize. They think, they think that they can just kind of like go through life and judge situations and circumstances based on, you know, their own will. But they don't, they don't realize that they, they are following an ideology.

You know, I do know. So how was it being with him?

Oh gosh, Dennis, he's so great. I mean, he's, he's so warm. And, and I'm not just saying this to you because he, he's your son. He's a very, very special person. Very warm, very vulnerable, very, very articulate. He's brilliant. And it kind of confirms my theory that people, I think the people who struggle with this the most are intensely brilliant people.

Really?

Yes. And I, and I think intensely brilliant people are sort of unable to be very happy in life.

That's interesting. He says he— Sean says he thinks he recalls the moment Aaron said he knew he had a problem. I was at his door.

No, that was, that was when he, he said that he made a call to Dennis. He didn't even remember it. And the next thing he knew, you were at his doorstep taking him to the airport to go get—

Correct. Yeah, that. But that's, that's not when he knew he had a problem. That's when he hit bottom and knew he got to get better. When I got that call, oh, it was a great, great day in my life.

Do you remember that call?

Oh, I remember. Oh. Huh?

What was it?

What did he say? Dad, I need help. You know, I, you know, help me. I need to go to rehab or something to that effect. I canceled everything that day, went immediately. I got him a ticket, obviously, to Pennsylvania, where I knew of a rehab thanks to my wonderful friends at the Chabad movement in Jewish life. It was not a Jewish rehab, but they, they had connections there. So do you want to hear— it shows you the little quirks that change a life. So he shows up and there were two divisions, under 21 and over 21 or 22. I don't remember what it was. And he was put in— let me see if he was— so he's 31, right? 31. You wouldn't know. 31.

He is 31.

Yes. Okay, he's 31 and he's sober 72. He was 20, so 24.

Wow, he was my age.

Well, wait, so wait, yeah, so that is, uh, I guess it was 25. I think that the division was under 25 and over 25. So he shows up at the place and they see he pulls out a cigarette. There's no smoking unless you're in the older division. You can't smoke in the younger division.

That's so stupid.

It's beyond stupid. Of course it is.

If that is the thing that's helping them, it's enough for them.

Oh, thank you. Thank you. Okay. Okay. Drives me crazy.

We can't wave a magic wand and live in a perfect world. These people are withdrawing.

Julie, these people saved his life, and yet I have such contempt for that idiocy. Well, I knew from the beginning of the war on, quote unquote, tobacco, that there was something sick about the movement. I knew, I wrote about it in my journal, you know, the publication I used to send out called Ultimate Issues.

Right.

Anyway, so he said, I'm leaving if I can't smoke. And a dear rabbi friend who became a dear friend, a Chabad rabbi who works with this rehab center, that he has a lot of the students come to his home for Shabbat dinner, interestingly. Anyway, he, he told them, then put him in the older, older group. You're going to kill him over damn cigarettes.

Totally.

Totally.

That's crazy.

Yes, correct. Crazy.

Okay.

So he went— Yes.

And by the way, why is it older versus younger? Like, I know that makes any sense. If you're going to ban it, ban it.

But why are you— That's right. It's totally— people are— people, the ability to become a fanatic is like unlimited in the human condition. And tobacco is one of them.

Sort of what you're saying about podcasts, like, like it's a better use of their time than a lot of other things. Having a damn cigarette is maybe not perfect, but right, if it's keeping them from the needle, who the hell cares?

Or from alcohol. So they allowed him in the older group and the rest is wonderful. I'll just tell one story because parents have to have courage to be tough. Tough love is, as it's called, is really essential. And here's an example of where I just exercised it. So I would fly cross-country to visit him. I love the guy. I mean, I always loved him. Yes, right, exactly. Pretty much that, that, that does, that does it. Yeah. So I, I show up and he's, he's seeing a therapist, which is perfectly appropriate, and we sit at the therapist and the whole time he basically, uh, yells at me about my flaws as a father and etc., etc. So I just looked at him in front of the therapist, said this was the second visit. He'd done it 2 visits now. So, Aaron, I just need you to know I'm not coming back. I am not flying across the country for you to crap on me. Bye.

And you got up and left?

Yeah.

And you flew home?

And I flew home. Wow.

What did he do?

Stop crapping on me. That's, that's what he did.

That is a massively important story.

That it's, it's painful to tell, but I have to tell it. But apparently that, that's— yes, yes. So it's important. So Sean is noting that he noted to you, and as he noticed, no notes often, I never gave up on him. That wasn't giving up on him. Giving up on him was to show up and let him be bad. That's the irony. That wasn't giving up on him saying, I'm not visiting. I didn't say I'm not talking to you.

Right. I didn't fly across the country to be yelled at.

Yes, that's right. Exactly. And by the way, yelled at inappropriately. I'm not the villain here, which is his this point now. Yes, he, he admits, by the way, you know, I did not know what he would answer me. I, I did not know when I asked him on my fireside chat, said I, when I said, could I have done anything differently as a father in terms of your addiction? And he said no. I did not know. I, I truly entertained the possibility to say 'Look, you know, Dad, I love you very much, as you know, but you could have done X, Y, and Z.' No, nothing.

Again, it's amazing you asked that question.

Yeah. Oh, I—

well, because you really open yourself up to people— yes, calling you a terrible father.

Yes, that's right, I did. But you see, I've never viewed me as the issue. I've always viewed my, my values is the issue. I am a vehicle for hopefully good values, and I've never viewed myself as anything other than that. It, it, it's what the arrogance of all these people who— they are the center of their— I'm not the center of my world. What I believe in is the center of my world.

I know, I know that to be true.

Well, thank you. I know you know that to be true, but that, that I would open myself up—

oh, it was, it was, it was very—

like, that is, is proof.

Yes. No, that, that was a big risk. That was a very big risk. Wow. You know, one of the things that you've talked about, perhaps on this show but certainly elsewhere, with Aaron's addiction is that you never let it ruin your life.

Yeah.

And that is amazing to me. And I know that it doesn't come from a place of callousness. I know that you are in, you know—

oh, I would go to bed every night leaving my phone on, right? Maybe he'll call me at 2 AM.

But how did you not let it ruin your life?

Well, when I tell parents, you, you cannot adopt this notion of you can't be happier than your least happy child, you are holding— you are allowing your child to hold your life hostage, your happiness hostage. And I refuse to do that. So how— and I think it's easier for men than women. Yes, I admit that we can compartmentalize better than you can.

Right? No, it's true.

That's why I said if men got women's brains, I think they'd shoot themselves.

Well, trust me, you would. I envy your brain for so many reasons.

That's correct.

But, you know, I think we live in a world now, and especially in, you know, affluent parts of the country, where parents literally, like, they, they view their kids as themselves, as extensions of them. Yes. Or quite literally themselves. Like, if they fail, then it's shame on me. If they succeed, it's glory to me.

That's correct.

And they— and I said, oh God, I can't even tell you how many times I've seen this. Parents are so afraid of letting their kids fail. And it's not so much— and obviously for their sake, it's— yeah, it's for the parents. It's about the parents. It's not, oh, I love you so much that I don't want you to fail. I don't want you to experience any pain. It's I don't want to seem to my, you know, surrounding community like I'm a, I'm a bad—

my—

like I failed.

Here's a—

they view kids as commodities.

Here, I'll open up again. So my, my parents had two sons. Every, every Prager has two sons. I have two sons. My parents had two sons. My son has two sons. My wife has two sons.

It'll be very interesting to see if Aaron has two sons. That would kick it over the edge.

Right. Yeah, so my, my parents were preoccupied with each other. They showed very— paid little— very— paid very little attention to me. They paid more attention to my older brother because he was the firstborn, so it was, you know, just inevitable, and also because he was a tremendous pride provider. He was the best at everything. Valedictorian, captain of the basketball team, editor of the school newspaper, got into Columbia. He was just—

He was a nachas machine.

He was a— yes, which is what he called himself.

I know.

Yes. Okay. Nachas is a Jewish term for pride and joy. Anyway, um, to give you a great example of how much of life is ironic, because it could be a blessing and a curse. So for most kids, you would think it's a curse. They, they didn't shower me with love. They didn't hug me much. They didn't say I love you. Uh, it just— that's the way I was raised. They were not in any way abusive, but they, they were not in any way coddling or even warm.

Right.

Okay. They were preoccupied with each other. They were crazy about each other for the 72 years they were together. It's a long time. So when I got older, when I became an adult I was so grateful that they were preoccupied with each other. So many kids are the center of their parents' attention, and it drives the kid crazy. So I will happily take my excess over the other excess, and it worked out great. I was, I was so grateful they have each other, they have their life. Yeah, they were proud of me, and my mother had this giant picture of me up, up in her house. That's true. But they didn't live through the kids.

Kids need space in order to—

and you, you don't want to be the reason of— for being of your parent. What a terrible burden to have on you. You don't have your own life. I have my life. I don't live through you. You shouldn't live through me. And it's not callous, it's loving. It's actually a wonderful thing. That's why, by the way, I— you've really got me started here, but that is why I am a big, bigger fan of the word like than even love. It's every parent, as This is my always go-to example. Every parent, maybe normal parent, loves their child. But a lot of parents who love their child don't like their child. A lot of kids love their parent, but they don't like their parent. I like my parents. The love was, was, you know, sometimes felt, not always felt. It didn't matter to me. They were good people. They raised a good kid. That's pretty damn successful. They gave me great values. What the hell— what else do I want? You know where I look for love? I would look for love from my wife. I would look for love from my friends. That's where you look to love for— from.

Hmm.

Does that sound— does that sound good?

It's— I mean, I'm— I totally agree with you, and, and I think this is the I think this is part of the issue with modern parenting where we see these helicopter parents. But I don't even think that term is exactly right. It's not so much helicopter. It's like you are the, you determine my happiness. You determine my worth. You determine my success. It's almost like a status. People, I think a lot of parents view their kids status symbols now. It's not just the vacations you take, the car you drive, the amount of money you have, the job you or your husband have. It's how well your kids do.

That's right. Well, if you could say, at least until recently, my kid goes to Harvard or any other prestigious place, that was— then you are announcing to the world, I am a success. Dennis Prager here with a man I have come to admire. For his work. So when I asked him, what do you do? This is the title he gave: Wealth Architect.

Very simply put, I am a wealth architect that helps my clients accelerate the way they grow your wealth. It's not how much you make, it's how much you keep. The Internal Revenue Code is embedded with a number of things that you can take advantage of. It's what I call playing tax chess. We take the time to play tax best guess in your favor. We give our clients unbiased, independent advice across all areas in their financial life because we have no incentive to sell anything.

I was taken enough and impressed enough to have you do my work, and you have in fact saved me a serious amount of money. CharlesDombek.com/Prager.

Well, you know, it's interesting because I When I was at Harvard, I realized that so many of us were there because we were desperately trying to make other people happy and proud.

Usually parents.

Usually parents.

Yeah, that's what my brother said.

And I, and I, I felt that so much growing up where I, I love my parents. I, I saw how much they went through with Gina, my sister with autism. And she, you know, and I was just like, oh my God, I, I just wanna bring it home to them. You know, I just wanna be the, the light in their lives. And so many of my classmates were— they had someone, yes, who they were, who they were doing this for, you know. Because it's— look, I'll admit it's a pretty unnatural thing to do with your high school life what you need to do to get into these colleges. That's right. The impetus for it is, is a lot of you're doing this for someone. You have to have it, you have to want it too, you know. Otherwise, like, you can't be forced to do it. But a lot of it is that you're trying to make someone else happy. But then what's interesting is like, are all of us kind of that way? Like, do you show up to your radio show every day and are you, are you doing this? I know you're doing this for, for other people. You're doing it for the greater cause of truth and goodness. But it's interesting to kind of look around and go, are all of us motivated by making other people happy or doing what we're doing because— or to prove something, not to make other people happy, but to stick it to someone? Are we motivated by ourselves? Are we motivated by what we can do for other people?

I can speak for me, and I have a quirky life in this way, I admit it. I I started in high school not living to make my parents proud. In other words, not to make them ashamed.

Right.

No, no. In other words, I live to make my parents ashamed.

Yeah, you're right.

No, no.

Of course, right.

It's very important. But I didn't do X, Y, or Z to bring them glory or joy or whatever.

Right.

And it was so liberating. And basically they let me do that. They weren't bugging me. They did, but they stopped when I was 14 and I became happy at 14. As soon as they stopped—

I know you were gonna go move to Idlewild or whatever the hell it was called.

You're right.

Is that what it is?

Idlewild?

That was so weird. Stuff like that is so interesting to me. Like, what? Idlewild?

Yeah, I don't know how it got, you know, Kennedy's a better name.

Yeah, yeah. So anyway, go, go on.

No, it was a very liberating thing that I— and I give them credit because once they decided that they weren't going to hound me— by the way, in talking about the hounding and so on, my theory on helicopter parenting is what you said, but I have another theory. Parents' preoccupation is they want to be loved by their child. If I show up at every one of your games, you will love me more. And I want you to know how much I love you. And but it's not a purely selfless love. It's a love to be loved. I, my parents, I was on my high school basketball team. I have no talent. But I was the tallest kid in the school, so I was on the team. And I didn't want my parents to come to the games. I felt that I was a man if they didn't come. I felt I was a boy if mommy is in the audience. I'm a boy.

I know you said that.

That's very interesting. Oh, I felt, yes, I really felt that. So did Alan Estrin. And we're two masculine guys.

Wow.

We were— we did not want to be our parents' kids.

Well, you know, so I've told you and the audience that I played sports my whole life— swimming, soccer, water polo— was every weekend traveling to God knows where, California, to play 3 games on Saturday, sleep in some Holiday Inn, play 3 games on Sunday, drive. I mean, it was just like craziness. And so across those 3 sports, I saw so many parents. And I was always, when I was so young, thank God my parents were never like this. I would see parents of people, of kids on my team and kids on the opposing team pulling up their, their chair to the edge of the pool, watching everything, screaming to the point where you could see their veins coming out. Drive to the goal!

I mean, just screaming at other kids and then screaming, screaming at each other, screaming at refs.

And I literally, in baseball games, I literally wanted to like go get like a Michael Lewis book and just like hand out books. Like, find something else in life that brings you meaning. This is weird. This is creepy. This is sick. And trust me, your kids are gonna hate you one day. Because this is, this is not so lame.

I really would like to know. I got to do this on my radio. This is why the radio show is invaluable in my life, because I get feedback. I would like to know from anyone over 30.

Yeah.

How, looking back, was it if your parents didn't go to all your games? If they went to a quarter of your games, right, would you be any different?

Well, my parents went to a lot of my games, but I actually at the end asked them to not the last few times.

And did they?

Did they? Yeah, they did.

Well, credit to them. Kudos. Totally. But nobody asked this question. It's like, what, are you kidding? Every kid wants that.

That.

But I don't know if that's true, and I don't know if they should want that.

Yes, I, I asked my parents to stop going because it was so much pressure. And thank God they were never the type of parents who would scream at me before, during, after the games. It was all the other— all the other parents took care of that. But I— it was— I— it was so much pressure, and it wasn't— it was so not fun anymore. And I, and I was so— I— whenever I would score a goal, I'd turn and look at them. Everyone would always say that because I so wanted to make them happy.

Was it water polo? Yeah, I saw by the Yeah, yeah, I know. I knew what it was.

Yeah, but I— you know what it was? Those parents were so effing awful that they would— I didn't want my parents to see other parents screaming at me.

Really?

And it was hum— I mean, it was absolutely humiliating. You would— I remember being—

why were other parents screaming at you?

Oh, I'd make a mistake. I'd throw—

oh, you mean the parents of your teammates?

Totally. Or yeah. Yeah, totally. And I remember once, like, I remember it was like the third game in Apple Valley, California. It was at 7 o'clock at night. Our first game was, well, it was like 7 o'clock in the morning. It was blazing hot. It was— you— I had a sunburn. I had to go study for my AP. I mean, it was effing miserable, miserable. And I remember being in the pool, you're so tired, people are clawing on you. And I remember I threw a pass and someone intercepted The coach threw the clipboard down. The other parents yelled, Hartman, what did you just do? And I will be honest, it was the first time I honestly contemplated physically harming someone.

I remember— were you thinking?

I just wanted to go and just start punching people. I was just like, you— I am 15 years old.

Go I'm sorry, what do we do about that?

I don't care. I mean, you like— do you understand how miserable— and you know what, and here's what I wanted to say to them: you don't think I don't know that I made a mistake?

Trust me, what a great point.

I know I made a mistake. I made a mistake. I want to keep cursing, but I'm not going to do that because they know it's work on Sean. I feel like an idiot for throwing the pass.

Right.

It's enough to know that you messed up. I don't need you throwing the clipboard and yelling.

My view is, hello, it's a high school water polo game. Why are you getting so exercised about it?

Oh my gosh. I really— I got to tell you, I hope I run into some of these people.

Now, there are parents who scream and curse at umpires in their kids' Little League games.

Oh, I know. No, it's— I think these parents need to be put in handcuffs and carted off to jail. I'm not— I'm really not kidding. Oh, I should do a whole show on this.

You should.

And you know what? This has gotten so much worse over the past 20 years.

We should do a show on my radio show on this.

Yes.

This is very important for parents to hear.

I don't have a lot of contempt for people. If I ever saw any of those parents, I—

Oh, scream. Yeah. Hartman, what did they say? I'm going to start repeating it.

Oh, they call me Hartman. And what the bleep did you just—

is that right?

I mean, like screaming and hitting their, you know, knees.

And you're 15.

And then they're walking down the pool. Yes. But you know what? Here, here's the, here's the little like ending, the, the way, the way to make this all better.

Oh, oh, it's not the corker.

It was absolutely miserable. I will never have my kids do that, ever. But I'm so glad, I'm so glad I did it. I'm so glad I went through that because now when I make a mistake or I, you know, humiliate my— like, at least I don't have a crowd of parents screaming at me.

That is interesting, you know, like, so you were sort of given an inoculation, a vaccination that worked.

Yeah, and you have to learn, you have to learn how to tune people out. There are a lot of lessons you gotta go Handle humiliation with dignity. Tune them out. Realize that they are trashy people with no life and no prospects for ever being anything but dumb sycophants. You just have to learn to accept it.

All right, so you know what, we gotta go, but next—

Oh, you don't wanna hear me go on and on about this anymore?

I do, actually. And you will, because I am going to tell a story next time of my— did I ever tell my basketball story at Madison Square Garden?

Yeah, you're going to tell— you have to tell it now. You're not going to remember.

Oh, all right. He wants me to tell it now.

So. So.

So. Okay. So I was at a Jewish high school in Brooklyn, New York. In New York, there are so many Jews that you could be in a whole all-Jewish school. They had an all-Jewish league. So there was a deal between the New York Knicks— that's the NBA team in New York. And the Metropolitan Jewish High School League, that's what it was, that the previous year's champion, no, the previous year's top 2 teams would play in Madison Square Garden before a Knicks game. So the previous year's team of my Jewish school, the Yeshiva of Flatbush, came in 1st or 2nd and got to play. Unfortunately, however, the, the team that did so well, they all graduated. So this year's team was lousy, which is part of the reason I made the team. That I think I have told the story of when the coach said they scraped the bottom of the barrel. Prager's on the team. Yes, we know. I knew he was right. I made the team because I was the tallest kid in the school, or 6'4" in high school. So it comes to Madison Square Garden and we're playing before a Knicks game and I'm just praying that I don't get in the game. I did not want to play in the game. I'm not good at it. I didn't want to embarrass myself in Madison Square Garden even though there weren't a ton of people there prior to a Knicks game but there's, you know, there are people there. With 56 or 58 seconds left, it is not possible mathematically for my team to win, right? I get a tap on the shoulder. Prager, you're, you're going in. When he knew there was no chance we could win. Yeah, I had not been following the game at all. I had been joking the entire time and cracking up my teammates. That was my job. I look at the guy next to me and I go, Nakbar— that was his name, Nakbar. We called him Snackbar. I go, Nakbar, which basket are we shooting at? And the guy starts cracking up and didn't tell me. Decades later, I found out why he cracked up.

Why?

He thought I was continuing to joke.

Oh, which makes perfect sense.

So I am now going in and there's a jump ball, and I don't know where we're shooting. This is, this is a farce, but it happened. So there's a jump ball and I ran to the wrong side.

Yeah.

The referee standing on that side looks at me and he goes, hey kid, you some sort of schmuck? And I thought, like I did with the coach, actually, I am some sort of schmuck. Ending up on this side of the court alone with you, that is not prestigious. So here's the reason that I'm reminded of it. My parents did come to that game. That was the only game they came to in my basketball career. It makes sense. Madison Square Garden. My mother, however, was as aware of basketball as I was. And when she saw me, she, she cheered me for 58 seconds like I was doing something competent. I heard her voice. Dennis! Dennis!

Oh, I remember my mom used to yell and, you know, people would wrestle in the— in water polo. And one time she yelled, get off my baby! That was the only time she ever yelled.

And I went, Mom, you were never doing— yeah, that's a killer.

Again, yeah. Well, she would— God bless her— she would tell—

well, I was 6'4". I did— the chance of my being called baby were We're minimal.

My mom would actually get into it with the other parents.

Is that right?

And say, stop, you got crazy people.

Yeah, great stuff.

We need to— I need to do a whole show on this.

Yeah, it's really important.

Psychotic sports parents.

Well, but where does it emanate from? That's the key. Yeah, and wanting to be loved by your kid at all time is the recipe for being a bad parent.

Well, these parents don't want to be loved by their kids.

No, no.

Oh, do you think screaming at their kids and— no.

Oh, they want to live through them. Yeah. All right.

Okay.

So they're both bad. Okay.

How can they reach us, Dennis?

By listening to what you will now tell them.

Good segue. You can reach me at julie@julie-hartman.com. Follow me on Instagram and Twitter @JulieRhartman. Follow Dennis on Twitter @DennisPrager and on Instagram @TheDennisPrager.

Really? That's how I reach people?

Oh my gosh. Oh my God, this has happened.

I have a wonderful week, everybody.

Literally 10 times.

A wonderful week.

We need to get a compilation bloopers, but not bloopers of this.

Is she still talking?

Oh, burn. Shalom, everyone.

Here's something most people don't know. When Warren Buffett was just 13 years old, he didn't put his money into a savings account. While other kids were earning next to nothing at local banks, Buffett put $114 into a little-known investment. Today, that $114 would be worth over $15 million. And it wasn't a risky trade. It wasn't even insider knowledge. It was an account that's been around since 1888, and over the last 25 years, it's averaged 29% a year. That's what happens when your money is allowed to compound. Compare that to today's savings accounts, paying less than half a percent while inflation quietly eats away at your buying power. Buffett understood early: banks are great businesses, just not for savers. If you'd like to see what some investors call the 29% account, go now to secretaccount29.com. That's secret account, the numbers, 29 dot com. secretaccount29.com.