Numb to Evil

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Hey everybody, Dennis Prager and Julie Hartman. Dennis and Julie. I increasingly tell people about Dennis and Julie.

Good.

It's now part of my— it's really part of my consciousness.

I'm glad that you do, because I need to do that more. You know, the two of us, we're— we talk about how similar we are intellectually. We're also really similar with our defects. And one of them is that both of us are not good at PR or we, we don't prioritize. No, no, no, no.

Not, not. No. You didn't have to modify not good in the, in the, in that direction. I know the modification would be awful.

We are both so bad at it.

It's funny you should mention that because I think as you get older, you, of course, you look back a lot. There's a lot to look back on. I, I have a built-in incapacity to promote myself.

Me too. Me too. And I'm, I'm actually realizing it right now, and I'm realizing that if I don't start doing it—

that's right—

then I'm not going to have a career.

Well, you'll have a career, but it won't be as successful as it would be otherwise. I, I wish I I had self-promoted more. Look, I mean, I obviously had quote-unquote a successful career, and I, I don't lament, you know, having not had that. But there's, there's no comparison. I, I see people who are so gifted and so motivated to do that. So I'm going to tell you something. I wonder how— if you will resonate. I, I don't think you will. And so, you know, there's no pressure on you to resonate.

It's okay.

Okay.

I never feel pressure, by the way.

Yeah, that's true. I, I agree with you. You don't— I mean, I, I know that. That's what I meant. I agree with you. Okay, so here's a self-revealing thing, which is why I say to people, I'm totally open on my radio show in my lectures, my fireside chat, but more comes out about me because of us than just me alone. Okay, so here's an example. Do you know one of the biggest things that prevents me from self-promoting and has all of my life?

No. Dignity. Yeah, me too.

Excessive It's, it's, it's excessive too. I can't ask people to do something.

We really are the same. Well, you know, so I, I totally relate. There's another component and, and maybe this is something that you won't be able to relate to because the media landscape is so different. But by the way, we're so open on Dennis and Julie. I'm, I'm really, I really don't hold back anything. I'm, I'm thinking through, but you know, Right now, to, to really get traction, you have to work it at social media. You have to be really good on Twitter, constantly on Twitter, constantly on Instagram, posting all of these things. And right now I'm sort of having this, this moment where I'm really contemplating about what I— contemplating what I should do, because so often on this show and on Timeless, I talk about what a cancer social media is to our society. And it really is a cancer. I know you don't fully understand it because, because God bless you, you're not on it, as we know from every time we end Dennis and Julie and I promote your socials and you have no idea what I'm talking about. But people are on this stuff constantly. They post about what they eat for lunch. They post, they post the most innocuous thing. If they walk by a sign that they think is funny, they'll post it on Instagram like Is it possible for us to just walk by a sign and think something's funny and not broadcast it to people anyway? I think it's— I think it has created— I think it's made us dumber. I think it's exacerbated and caused in large part our social and political divisions. And so how can I sit up here as a talk show host and, you know, come out swinging against social media and then at the same time promote myself constantly on it. I feel that I'm being a hypocrite.

That's interesting. I, I, you know, I hadn't thought of that.

And it's not in my nature to promote myself constantly on social media. It's just, when I say it's not in my nature, I really mean that. Like, it's truly just not in my nature.

Believe me, I relate.

But I feel like a hypocrite if you do.

Well, no, okay, but then you might as well say that we shouldn't do Dennis and Julie because we're using we're using social media.

That's true.

It, it's okay.

I know, but it requires really, again, you don't quite understand this, but it requires constant—

oh no, I do understand it. That's why I don't do it. Yes.

And sometimes, and another thing I lament is sometimes people don't have something to say, and then, and then I think a lot of influencers, because they have to crank out a lot of content They just say stuff to say stuff. And I really endeavor to be more thoughtful. I only want to open my mouth and opine when it is appropriate for me to open my mouth and opine. We have too many bleeping people with too many opinions these days.

It's eerie how similarly I feel. Well, I want to tell you, talking about the pernicious nature of social media, and not all of it is pernicious by any means. We're on it, obviously.

Yeah.

I read last night a, a long piece in the New York Times, and basically what I do for a living is read depressing things.

Okay, I know, me too, right?

Exactly. But this went a notch further. It's basically about the The number of mothers who post pictures of their prepubescent daughters, 9, 10, 11-year-old girls, sometimes younger, in quote-unquote sexy attire. They're not, they're not nude, but, but it's, it's clearly sexualized. I mean, we're talking about, I think, hundreds of thousands. And everyone knows that creepy men, men who are clearly sick, because you have to be a sick man to be attracted to a prepubescent child.

To put it mildly, yes.

Oh, well, that's not mild.

Fair.

Sick is pretty bad.

Fair.

They know it. And they say, well, that's, you know, that's just part of what matters. They— so there were— why would a mother do this? Okay. So here are my— this is— do you know about this, by the way? Is this something you're aware of? I was not.

I'm not aware specifically of like the sexualizing thing.

Okay.

Very aware of mothers posting copious amounts of images about their children starting at literally like 12.

Yeah. But All right, but that's because they just, they, they want to publicize their family. But this, this is this. So why do they do— why would a mother do this? And it's always mothers, by the way. Why would a mother do this? So there are two answers. One, one is— there might be three, but one is money. They, they people— for the more successful ones, people pay to— oh God, what a sick world we're in. Oh, it—

I was sick.

I was literally nauseous reading this. Another one is they— the mother lives through the fame, fame of their 10-year-old daughter. Hmm. So I, I The article, at least I didn't see it, it may— I may have missed it, but I don't think it mentioned how many of these women using their daughters in this way are married.

Interesting.

Isn't that interesting? It's— I wonder how, how many fathers would go, oh, that's fine, honey.

It's true. Well, it really is true that a lot of the problems on social media, uh, you know, you know, when we talk about body image issues, perhaps men on social media get body image issues as a result of social media. I don't know, but it really is quite—

no, it's much more with women, right?

So, gosh, so many thoughts, but the first is I mean, we talk about how terrible human nature is, or how not good, as you put it, human nature is. And what's interesting is that I think for as long as human beings have existed, there have been creeps like this who would find something bizarrely whatever, would be turned on by a pre— I mean, oh my God. But I do think crazies like that have existed for as long as human beings have been around. But the thing about technology now is that it gives all of these people more of an ability to let their freak flag fly. Like, so, you know, now there's like a marketplace for stuff like this. And the technological advancement has been compounded by a diminishing and defective culture which legitimizes behavior like that. I mean, you've played stuff on your show before, I know, of people giving TED Talks saying— Sean, I think, may have the clip. Of this. There's a woman giving a TED Talk and she basically says that, that pedophilia, we shouldn't treat pedophilia like a mental illness. We should treat it like a sexual preference. There's, there's this movement now. Again, I know you've talked about this on your show where they're, they're calling pedophiles. It's an acronym. It's like young or— Oh yeah. Yeah. Like it's like little young attracted people or something. In other words, we're not You know, there's an increasing group that's not stigmatizing it. And so the technology has been compounded by the culture, and now we have— what is it?

Minor attracted people.

MAPs. Minor attracted people. But these two chemicals are going in the same test tube. The— what technology gives people and the defective culture. And now it's coming together to produce this?

I asked someone we both have great affection and respect for, Dr. Stephen Marmer. I've asked him many times. He, he taught psychiatry at UCLA Medical School for many years. He's in private practices in LA. He's been, he's been the only recurring guest on the Happiness Hour.

He's a cool dude.

Yes, he is. So I asked him on a number of occasions, are men attracted to prepubescent children, usually girls, are they fixable? Hmm. And he has always said no.

Where does he say it comes from?

Oh, I— it's, it's interesting. Either I asked him and forgot his answer, or I never asked him that. I was just more interested in, can we undo these damaged psyches? He doesn't think it can be undone. See, where there is abuse, it usually comes from someone who's been abused, right? But this is not the same thing, I don't think. Although, I, I mean, theoretically it might be. If they had— if they knew they would not be prosecuted, would they abuse these children? I have no doubt. But, uh, where, where does that even come from? I, I don't, I don't know. I, I know men pretty, pretty well. And I, I am, I am as stymied as you, a female, are by this, by this question. But interestingly, my, my anger— and by the way, this is one of the only times in, in years of reading comments on a New York Times piece that I agreed with the commenters. We— they all, virtually all— I always read comments, as you know, and I do it in order of popularity. So almost everyone said they held the mother in greater contempt.

Yes, absolutely.

She's not sick. I mean, she might be sick, but She's awful. I mean, he's sick. Okay, so you have the puzzle of explaining him and explaining the mother. I gave the mother one: living through the daughter's quote-unquote fame and money. This is Dennis Prager for AmFed Coin and Bullion. That's my choice for precious metals. The current economic climate could make buying gold a very desirable safe haven commodity. The government's overprinting of money, the fluctuation of interest rates, and high inflation can all impact the value of gold, and it's why you should seriously consider buying now. I've been working with AmFed Coin and Bullion's owner Nick Grovich for years.

Um, it was in the Epoch Times, which by the way, I've said it on Timeless and I've said it here and I will— they are not paying me a dime. I love the Epoch Times so much. It is a fantastic newspaper. Their news is objective. It is giving you all that you need to know. And then they have a life and tradition section where they profile great artists, art, architecture.

It's magnificent. I—

30 out of 10 paper. Anyway, they had this article about polylogism.

What does that mean?

Well, exactly. You don't know what polylogism is?

Love of many logs.

That would be a good guess. I didn't know what it was either, but I was reading it last night, and it's this idea that there are— that every— that the different groups have their own logics. It's basically like another way of saying moral relativism, but every, like, different maybe ethnic groups or religious groups or gender groups have their own logic that they subscribe to and sort of in general, each logic is, is no better than the other logic. It's just, it's their own truth, in other words. And our, and our culture has become polylogist, right? And that's, that is a very apt example of, well, pedophiles. We can't stigmatize pedophiles because that's their own truth. That's their own logic. And we have to be respectful and deferential to that logic. See, I think that's nonsense. I think there is objective good and evil. And yes, in some cases, people have their own preferences, like they like a turkey sandwich over a ham sandwich, or they prefer to live in Los Angeles over New York City. But preferences about various things in life is different than moral standards. And we, and we now live in a culture where we think that moral standards are preferences. They're not.

Couldn't agree more. My lifelong battle. I gotta remember this— polylogism.

Polylogism.

Many logics.

Many different logics.

It's an outgrowth of multiculturalism.

Yes.

Who's to say any culture is better than any other?

So this is, this is interesting because, gosh, I was talking about this with some friends I disdain Sharia law. It is objectively evil. I was about to say objectively, in my view, evil. I'm going to omit—

well, it has evil elements.

It is objective. Well, yes, they're—

they're— it's not all evil. I mean, I want to—

okay, that's right. Well, what parts of it aren't you—

well, I mean, telling somebody to pray 5 times a day is probably—

that's fair. No, I'm glad you clarified. I'm thinking about the, the, you know, women have to get permission to leave the home and, and They're mandated to wear the hijab or otherwise.

Well, yeah. So the question is, is that even Sharia? It is the practice in many Muslim societies. But I wonder, and I don't know the answer, I would have to ask Robert Spencer or ask a Muslim. But is that, is that in Sharia law? For example, clitoridectomy is not in Sharia law.

I see.

But a vast number of Muslims in sub-Saharan Africa practice it.

Okay, no, I'm glad you clarified this. I was sort of using the term Sharia law as a way to describe many of the elements of law specifically pertaining to women that are present in countries like Iran. That is objectively evil. But I have, like, I have no choice but to respect. Like, I don't, I don't know if the United States should be in the business of trying to change another society's culture. You know?

Well, certainly not through, not through violence.

Of course not through violence.

I feel like through violence you should try to combat bad ideas with good ideas.

But in a way, like when we try to democracy build in these other countries, and obviously we've been doing that less lately, but you know, in the early 2000s with the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, when we, when we tried to democracy build, Like, yes, I believe the way those countries treat their citizens is objectively evil. And the vocation of a good nation and a good people should be to try to maximize goodness and minimize evil. But at the same time, that is their culture. And we see it. This is where I fear I'm getting morally relativist. That is their culture. And maybe it's not our business to go in and change their culture.

It is.

That doesn't mean I endorse their culture, but it's not—

the most important thing is moral clarity. The, the danger is not that other value systems exist. It is that we have a gigantic body of thought in America stemming from the, the universities, the, the, the seed of, of of awful thinking that says you can't say any culture is better than another.

Very good.

The loss of moral clarity is much more dangerous than the existence of bad cultures.

Very well said.

If you can't call bad bad, it's over. And the left has made it over. You can't— I reported on my radio show, the Mayo Clinic, considered one of the preeminent medical clinics in the country, has apologized to its LGBTQ+ employees that they had a doctor speak at their conference who believes that a man cannot become a woman and a woman cannot become a man. They apologized. The Mayo Clinic, which is supposed to be science-based. Mm-hmm. Scientifically, you cannot become the other sex. It cannot. You can do every surgery possible. You are not a member of the other sex. All you have done is taken the trappings of their body and attached it to your own or deprived your own of it. But the removal of breasts doesn't make you a man.

Can I just pause you and say that I want us to have a moment where we realize that the fact that Dennis Prager has to make an argument— and you're making a serious argument right now for why a person cannot become the other sex. The fact that we are at that place in our culture right now where it is demanding such a serious argument from you. Shows you how adrift we have gone. When I was little, you know, I was watching this old show called Friday Night Lights. It's not that old. It's like from the, from the early 2000s. But it is a really good show, Sean. Yeah. See, I sometimes watch shows. He often makes references to things and I have no idea what he's talking about, but I'm glad we, we connect on that anyway. There's— it's about high school football. And there's a scene in the show where the football players get up in front of the school and they dress up as girls and they start shaking their hips and they're like having— and the crowd is laughing in hysterics because it's so funny to see these macho football players dress up like girls. That would never fly today. That would be seen as Totally right.

Of course.

Bigoted and all of that. But it, but I was watching that and I was going, oh my God, our humor 15 years ago thought this was hilarious.

That's just 15 years ago.

Just 15 years ago. And now we're at this place where you, one of the leading intellectuals in American life, has to sit across from me and make a serious argument, you know, supplemented by subpoints as to why a man cannot become a woman. That's weird. We are, we are in weird, weird territory.

So I just, I, again, I wanted to make the point, the, the death of moral clarity, yeah, is a much greater danger than the existence of other moral systems which may be bad even. This is, that's the great line I always quote from Isaiah: woe unto those who call good evil and evil good. That's the end of the society in which you live. Once that happens, we're in that now. Oh, well, one of the— there are so many examples, but the one Israel with the, you know, the genocide libel. Did you hear this? You would not have heard. I should get this to you from The Wall Street Journal reporting this. So have you heard— how many times have you heard imminent starvation of vast numbers of Gazans constantly, correct? Of course, constantly. According to Hamas, guess how many people in 7 months in Gaza out of 2.3 million people have died of malnutrition?

I don't know. How many?

It was 31. And I assume 31 people in any 7-month period die of malnutrition when there's no war. Hmm. 31. Are you with me?

A bit. I'm—

that's their figure. And their figure, half the number of women and children figures. Well, well, well, they—

so if—

no, they don't need to. The New York Times will do it for them. The BBC will do it for them. That, that is what I'm saying. That's why the New York Times, the media of the West, are a greater threat than any of the Islamists or Islamic terror societies. Iran is a threat, but it doesn't undermine— Iran doesn't undermine the West's appreciation of what is good and what is evil. With no Iran, we're committing suicide.

Oh, absolutely.

And but this is the point, though, the— this staggering lie. I said on my radio show this— oh, this is a big subject for us. I said on my radio show, how did I know? I called it. It's all— it's all both recorded and in print. I said social distancing was a farce.

You did. You were—

I said lockdowns were the greatest mistake in international history. I spoke about the idiocy of masks. So, and I said, so I said on my show, I'm not an expert. How did I know? So you would have loved it because I gave two answers. How did I know? How could I say with such certitude all of these things there? And there are two answers. One will— you'll love, you'll like both, but you'll love one. One is using reason is a massive help. You reason. The other is pursue truth at any cost, which is your, your motivating factor, which is a big bond between us. So when I kept reading imminent starvation of hundreds of thousands of Gazans. So I thought, well, I hope that doesn't happen. Okay, that's a given. But I kept thinking, well, wait a minute. After reading about this for 3 weeks, and I said it on the air, this is not Monday morning quarterbacking. Why is every Gazan I see in every picture looking perfectly well-fed. I don't— where are, where are all— where are the hundreds of thousands of starving Gazans? We should see, we should see— God forbid, by the way— but we should see piled bodies, or we should see emaciated living people. But none. Zero. I don't see any. So all I did was pursue truth and use reason. Are you ready to lose weight but not sure where to start? So I'd like to tell you why I chose PhD Weight Loss and Nutrition. First. Dr. Ashley Lucas has her PhD in chronic disease and sports nutrition. The program is science-based. The PhD program starts with nutrition and is much more. They know 90% of permanent change comes from the mind, and they work on eliminating reasons you gained weight in the first place. There are no shortcuts, no pills, no injections, just solid science Science-based nutrition and behavior change. If you're ready to lose weight for, I think, the last time, call 864-644-1900, 864-644-1900 to get started, or online at myphdweightloss.com, myphdweightloss.com. Just make the appointment for your one-on-one consultation. Call today, 864-644-1900. If you have imminent starvation, but nothing happens, it's like imminent. It's the same thing with global warming. Oh, every 12 years it's too late. It'll be too late in 12 years. It'll be too late in 12 years. Well, after 3 12-year periods, nothing happened. You're lying to me. Gaza's lying. The New York Times is lying. The BBC is lying. They're liars. Lying is is so— it's a given that the BBC has retracted. I just read this before you showed up. 70 reports they have retracted as untrue. 70. The BBC Arabic service.

Oh my gosh. You know what you just said? And you're right. It's what I am trying to make my two North Stars. What would you say? Pursuit of truth and reason.

Yeah.

They are two such simple things, and yet we have gotten so far away from it. I mean, even look at the things that we're outraged about. We're so— we're outraged about microaggressions. We're outraged about misgendering someone. We're outraged that NFL guy gave the commencement address and all these feminists are freaking out because he said, you know, men and women have their traditional roles. Even if you disagree with him, you're going to freak out.

You're going to convulse. Speaking to a Catholic audience at a Catholic school. He's allowed to say it.

Of course he's allowed. By the way, even if he said this, this shows you how unhealthy we are. If he got up there and he said the most despicable things about, like, truly despicable things about women, I still don't even think that warrants a freak out. You know why? People will say, crazy stuff and condemn them, but don't, you know, get so knocked off-kilter about it. We are living in a crazy world where we react to things that don't deserve reaction, and then we ignore things that really do deserve reaction. And I think it's what I said earlier and you so eloquently built on. We are numb to evil. We don't know real evil. And that's part of why we're confused. We're confused because we're brainwashed. We're confused because we've, you know, our culture has become defective. But really what it is is that we, we as an American society, we don't know real evil because if we experienced real evil, it wouldn't matter how brainwashed we are. We would have a visceral, you know, we would have an internal understanding that a microaggression does not warrant a freakout. Because literally our, like, literally our lived experience, which is such a term everybody throws out these days, but our lived experience of understanding evil would create an internal compass in us to understand that reacting to dumb stuff is dumb. Does that make sense? Yeah, we do.

But we have not— it's not going to happen.

I know it's not. You're right. It's not going to happen.

It's like Well, you— what you're saying is it exemplifies one of my rules of life. Those who don't fight real evil fight fake evils, right? They make up evils to fight.

So why is that? Do they have an internal desire, in your view, to fight?

Yeah, because it— yes, it gives, it gives most people a sense of purpose. The Washington Post reporters, 99% of whom are probably profoundly shallow, if that's not an oxymoron, led the campaign to change the Washington Redskins name because it was allegedly racist to have the name Washington Redskins.

Right.

By the way, again, as I've noted, I'm probably on Dennis and Julie, so folks forgive me. The Washington Post And this time, to its credit, had a massive polling of Native Americans and then reported they don't care about the name.

It's like Will Witt going— Will Witt put on a sombrero and all, and then he went to UCLA and there the kids are telling them that it's cultural appropriation. And then he goes to a Mexican neighborhood in Los Angeles and they all think it's hilarious.

That's right. Well, cultural appropriation is an example. It's a perfect example of creating a fake evil.

That's—

you're right, because they don't fight. There's no— not only is there nothing wrong with cultural appropriation, it is a good thing.

Of course, it's a compliment.

Of course, exactly.

It's a great compliment when someone takes something of yours and, you know, obviously, by the way, it has no meaning.

Yes, I don't— I don't even understand it. So is it cultural appropriation if I sing a song in a foreign language? I mean, I'd like to know. I want to understand what it even means. I don't— I don't— I don't understand what it means. By the way, I always think, because, you know, I'm a committed Jew, and I always think, so what if somebody took on some Jewish practice, right?

Like, hey, shalom!

Huh?

Look at what I say.

Well, that's correct. That's a perfect example. Here's another one. I wrote a column. I started a campaign asking non-Jews to put a mezuzah on their doorpost. Yeah, that's the little box with holy scripture in it. It doesn't matter. It was the box that mattered because it showed solidarity with Jews in an age where Jews are, are, are in trouble in the United States. I'll try to just keep it like on that level. Is that cultural appropriation? I guess it is, but I think it's fantastic. I, I, I, and as you said, isn't it a compliment?

Of course.

Why would I culturally appropriate a bad thing? It's true, right?

It's true.

Are, are Are people outside of cultures that have clitoridectomies removing girls' clitorises? Are they culturally appropriating it?

That's right. No, that's a very good point. But, you know, I want to go back to the social media thing for a little because you were giving a very extreme example, which is—

You mean the mothers?

Well, actually, it's actually not very extreme.

That's right.

Yeah, that's actually the sad part. It's unbelievably ubiquitous. You're right. But I want to talk about some other things that I see on social media, which maybe don't fall into the category of numbness to evil, but they fall into this greater conversation of we're not in a healthy society with regard to many things, the way that we react, the way that we behave. This is not a healthy culture, American culture right now. And even innocuous examples prove that point, or innocuous compared to, you know, pimping your 6-month-old and whatever it is, or 6-year-old. 6-year-old. I see. But look at how— I mean, again, you wouldn't know this, but I know this. And people who are— I'm 24— people who are my age or near my age who are on social media a lot will understand what I'm talking about. People, as I said earlier, they will post pictures of their lunch. And this, this is ubiquitous. This is as ubiquitous as it comes.

Where do they post it? On Instagram?

Where do they post it? On their Instagram story. And I—

So, so explain it to me because you're right, it's just completely foreign to me.

Okay.

So without even— I'm not even interested in judging it. I want to first understanding it. And so I have an Instagram account and I— and I— what do I do? I photograph my lunch. I don't— I'm not clear what's happening.

Okay. Literally, this is what happens. You have an Instagram account, you're eating your garlic green beans at our favorite place to go to.

Right.

And you're thinking, oh, my garlic greens are really good. You take out your phone, you take a picture, and you put it on your Instagram story.

And so under what heading? What I had for lunch today?

No, it doesn't require a heading. You just post There's a feature on Instagram.

You just post photos with no explanation.

Yeah.

Why would— and this is again, my purpose here is not judging. It's to understand, right? Why would anyone want to see a picture of green beans?

This is the point. It's a great question. And this is the very point. But we've lost the plot, people. We've lost the damn plot. It's so common that we have lost our ability to see that it's weird. What Dennis just said, he meant it as a clarifying question, but it actually is the whole point. Why would anyone want to see a photo of green beans?

But it's right.

So, okay, everybody's posting photos of their— he knows what I'm talking about.

You agree?

He knows exactly.

People post their lunch.

Yes, they do. Yes, they do.

One minute. See, I've seen thumbs up.

I'll give you more examples.

One minute. Rick, have you ever posted a lunch on Instagram?

By the way, I have. I've done that.

I love it.

I'm really proud of you for acknowledging it.

Okay, so tell me, what does it mean you posted lunch on Instagram?

By the way, so much sometimes when I come out swinging against something, I want— I hope this is obvious, but I want people to know it's because I've worked through it myself with me.

Oh, that's like, I've seen it with me.

I've gone, maybe I shouldn't be posting a photo of my green beans. Why am I doing that?

When you Or when was the last time you did it?

Years ago. I've really done a social media cleanse.

At what age?

Oh, when I was like 15, 16.

Oh, okay. So you did it at 15?

Yeah, but I would probably do it at 22. I mean, I don't know, like—

No, no, I am curious. Yeah. Oh, so you did it up till 20?

Many of my friends still— I love and I adore them.

Right. So why? Okay, then you can explain it to me. What motivated you to do it?

Okay, this is the scary part, and it literally warrants 30 Dennis and Julies. I don't know. Everyone else was doing it, and we're all on social media, and we spend hours a day just flipping through stuff that's mindless. People don't just take photos of their green beans. Again, this is all going to sound so foreign to you, but I promise you, many of our viewers know exactly what I'm talking about. People will see people will take a photo of photos of their shoes, like standing on a curb and post it. People will see, as I said, a sign that they think is funny and post it. People will— I have seen people my age, like, take, take pictures of, like, trash and post it because, well, many of them think they're being artsy or— yeah, like, people think they're being artsy with—

well, so what, what, what is this that is up? Up right now on the screen. What is this?

This is just like— well, I don't know honestly if that's—

that really shows it. They look like— that's not— I think they're artworks more than—

yeah, that more falls into the category of like beautifully photographed food. My point is people feel like they have to chronicle every second of their lives for public consumption. If they met a friend for a walk, they'll take a photo of their friend walking the dog. And post it like, love seeing Janet. Why do you need to tell people that you went on a walk with your friend?

There— I don't have an answer.

They're, you know, a vaca— constant vacation photos. And again, I'm, I'm not— okay, you know, I used to sometimes do stuff like this, and then I realized this is very unhealthy. Why am I doing this?

Maybe this will help. I, I'm now realize something in this article, which it was— I, I, I barely got through. It was, it was actually, as I literally nauseating. They linked it, linked to another article that something like, I don't remember what percentage, a third of young girls wanted to be influencers.

Yep.

Does that make sense to you?

Yes. Oh, of course. Because we— I wrote an article about social media in the Washington Examiner recently, and I really think it would be worth people's time to read. It's quite short.

But what's the title?

I can't remember the title, but just look up Julie Hartman, Washington Examiner, social media, and it will pop up. Or we can link it in the description box. But I wrote that I know why that's happening, and it's because social media has made everyone into an individual brand to be marketed. Think about a public profile. You have a profile picture, you have a 200-word bio, you have a select number of pictures and videos that you can post, you have a number of followers and a number of people following, and it has reduced a human being into literally a brand to be marketed. And so we, and my generation, we live on social media constantly. And so we start to see ourselves in these ways. We start to see ourselves as, oh, I'm going for, or I'm eating this, that's part of my brand, or I'm traveling here, that's part of, we don't, we don't think the word brand specifically, but we think of our, our lives in terms of like how it can be trumpeted on social media. And so then I think in consequence, a lot of people start to see like their whole lives as social media, including their jobs. Like, I'm going to be, I'm going to be an influencer.

One of the most fascinating things I've done recently is to get a brain SPECT scan. I went to bestselling author Dr. Daniel Amen at Amen Clinics. They're known as the best brain and mental health company in the world. Most psychiatrists sort of guess what your problems are, maybe very intelligent guesses, but Amen Clinics treats a variety of mental health issues and actually looks at the organ it treats, the brain. You can get 10% off an Amen Clinics evaluation. Go to amenclinics.com/dennis. Talking to Dr. Amen about my brain health, which turned out to be, thank God, really good, was very informative, extremely informative. I see now why looking at the brain before treatment is so important to getting the right treatment and how it supports targeted treatment for conditions like ADD, depression, memory, and more. Visit amenclinics.com/dennis. To learn more about their brain-based approach to mental health, or call 844-256-7266, 844-256-7266, and get 10% off by using the code Dennis10.

A lot of people start to see like their whole lives as social media, including their jobs. Like, I'm going to be, I'm going to be an influencer. Because, I mean, I read this stat the other day and it's terrifying. I talked about it on my show. If the average 18-year-old right now continues on the trends that they have exhibited so far, they will spend 20 years of their lives on 24/7 on their phone. 20 years of their life.

20 years, 24/7.

Yes.

Not 20 years of 6 hours a day.

Yeah. 24/7. 'Cause we spend what, a third of our lives sleeping? If we continue on it now, 20 years of our lives will be on our phones. So that explains, 'cause we, I, I'm sorry to be dramatic, but it's true. We don't, we don't live around here. We live on here. We do.

You're, you're right.

I, um, and that's why people think they're gonna be influencers. 'Cause that's their, they think their job, like, social media is like the new world, if that makes sense. They're living in the social media world. So then their job is in the social media world as an influencer.

I was at a sort of a fast food restaurant the other day, and the next table were 3 girls and a guy, I would say high school age. And he The whole time was on his— was on his phone. I don't mean talking. It was just on the phone doing— I don't— what do you— I know you don't know.

What do you think he was doing? What was he doing? He was doing nothing. We can't— I'm actually so glad we're talking about this because I want to devote many numbers of shows on Timeless and perhaps even here to this subject. He's doing nothing. We are so addicted to these things. The phone is as revolution— the iPhone and social media. It is as revolutionary as birth control was and as the atomic bomb was in the way that it changed.

I would say as the printing press was.

As the printing press. It is. We are in— we are the guinea pigs in a printing press, atomic bomb, birth control, like, like moment right now with these phones. I know it because I've done it. When you sit there and you don't know what to do, I'll show you right now. I'll show you. Show you. Show you. We do. We refresh our email, because our minds have been wired to always be clicking. He was refreshing his email, or maybe he was texting his friend like, oh, you know, hanging out at this restaurant, what you doing right now? Or we're on social media and we're literally just scrolling, clicking, clicking, clicking.

It particularly hit me because I I did what most people do because you ask, what would I do in this situation? So I was thinking, I'm in high school, I'm with 3 cute girls, aren't I going to talk to the girls? I mean, isn't that the most natural thing for a guy to do? And he's— he was— he was apparently— I— because I— maybe for all I know is a medical emergency. But I don't think so. But he was apparently more interested in his phone than in 3 girls because this has rewired our brains.

We cannot underestimate the effects that this has had on us. It has rewired our brains so that we have these habits. Even to call them habits is, is an understatement. Like, they're literally just— they're, they're fundamental components of the way that we live. Our brains have been wired to just exist on these things and it doesn't even probably occur to him to talk to those girls. It's bad. You said you read depressing things for a living. Sometimes I feel like we— I know we're talking about something very depressing, but I hope by exposing it— I think what I really hope to do with this is totally expose what social media is doing to us and then I think and hope people will have enough a connection.

What should parents do?

Humanity to—

what do you think a parent should do?

Oh, I know what a parent should do. Take your child's phone and throw it in a swimming pool. Take your child's phone and take a hammer and hit it. In other words, don't you dare give your child a phone. You as a parent— oh God, I feel so emphatic about this— get your child off of social media as soon as possible. And in fact, take their phone and literally break it in half. Don't give it to them until they're— when they're 18, they can do whatever they want with their life. But as long as they're under your jurisdiction, don't do it. By the way, my friend, you'll find this to be fascinating. My friends and I talk about this a lot. When we have children, God willing, we are all so determined to raise them in a phoneless, electronic-less environment that shows that we know to some extent how much this has harmed us. I have images of raising my kids and like taking them to a field and telling them, giving them a ball, telling them, go play. My child, mark my words now, and if I'm wrong, I lose all credibility forever. I'm staking my whole credibility on this. My child will not have a phone until they're 18. Maybe they'll have like a jitterbug, like a little phone, like if they, an emergency to call me or to call 911. My child is going to have the most electronic-less upbringing. Because this stuff is cancer. I feel like I was just soliloquy— I just went on a soliloquy about— sorry.

No, I— well, first of all, your passion makes it important. So you'll— I know you will appreciate this. I don't— I think if I explain it, most people listening, watching will too. The whole time you speak of an electronic-less—

that was, that was your life.

Well, that was— no, that was everybody's life.

You're so lucky.

But right now it is the life— the only life I know of is Orthodox Jewish, your grandkids.

Yeah.

So most people, uh, listening don't know this, but Orthodox Jews do not use electricity one day a week on the Sabbath. And it's, it's interesting because it sounds almost like, well, the Amish won't use a car, you know, it's just this quaint habit.

It does, it sounds totally quaint, right?

But it's turned out to be life-saving. And by the way, I do use electricity on the Sabbath. I don't, I don't go on the computer, I, I don't watch movies. I mean, I, I don't watch ball games, but if my— if someone intimate in my life needs me, I will read the text. I will talk to an intimate on the phone, and that's it. In other words, I have a relatively electronic list, but not fully. Theirs is fully. And when I I know you know this. When I visit my son, who, and God willing, my other son will have a child if all goes well, you know, in about 7 months. But the— when I visit him, I watch his 2 kids. They're 13 and 8, and I watch them. All they're doing is playing with kids. They're playing as it, for all intents and purposes, the house is 1955.

I know, I know.

Or 1855.

Well, when I meet, so I, we've talked about this on Dennis and Julie. Your grandkids were here recently and they are so cute. They're so sweet. They're so decent and they're not jaded whatsoever.

Right.

Especially little Jack. And it was like meeting a kid from the videos that I see of what old, like, American children used to be like. And you're totally right. It's because they're, they're Orthodox and they don't have these phones.

You know, Charlie Kirk, who's Christian, but who has heard me speak about the Sabbath, the Shabbat, a lot. He doesn't use his— he doesn't use his phone at all on from Friday night to Saturday night.

And everybody should be honest right now. But he credits you for that.

Well, yes, I thank you. Okay, I know it's true. I mean, it means—

No, but this is really important because Charlie always says that Dennis talks about his son.

Well, and of course it's a massive credit to him. Everybody should do that. You should take a day off. It's like I don't smoke a cigar on the Sabbath because there's a law against lighting a fire in the Book of Exodus. I try to follow biblical law. And it's, it's good that I take a— I'll tell you why it's good. I don't think it matters health-wise, but I'll tell you why. And I miss the cigar because I smoke a cigar whenever, whenever I'm home, or even on the road I go to cigar lounges. But I, I miss it. But it's really good that I dehook myself from something.

Yes, it's almost like ceremonial. It's almost something that may not have— I mean, obviously I respect that there's a law in Exodus that you're following, but even if it doesn't have any religious significance, it's almost like a marker to you. I am doing something different during this time.

That's right.

Gosh, you know, Dennis, what I was thinking— I'm so lucky to be in your world, and I'm so lucky to all the many role models I have in my life. I have such great parents. I never talk about my parents on this show. I try to keep it separate, but I have all these great role models and I feel like I'm the beneficiary of all of your wisdom and great habits. And maybe it will be my vocation for my generation to try to resurrect some of this. Like, I was thinking I have to do a show telling people why the Sabbath forget if you're religious, is just such a good thing for you to do for your life. You know, yeah. Or, or I want to make it my vocation to get people off of social media because back to this point on how unhealthy our culture has become, it's one thing to, to be unhealthy or to do something that is not healthy. It's another thing to not realize.

Well, that's what I said earlier. Moral clarity is more important than whether or not the non-moral exists.

And that the second part concerns me more than the first. And it's exactly relating to your point because like, think about cigarette smokers. And I know, I know you have feelings about the, the craziness over cigarettes in this country, and I agree with you. But if people smoke a pack a day of cigarettes, even though they do it, at least they know it's unhealthy.

Right.

Right now, the really scary thing is that so many of us live our lives online and maybe we have like a little bit of understanding that it's not the best thing, but we don't have anything approaching an appropriate sense of just how debilitating it is.

I want to get your take.

Yeah.

On something I mentioned earlier and then we just moved on, which is perfectly fine, but I want to go move back. That if I got the statistic right, and I, and I, I believe it to be true, a third of young girls want to be, want to be present influencers, which is a riot, influencers. But it doesn't matter, it's actually not a bad word because that's, that's what they want to do. So you have your theories, I assume, on why they do. Do you have theories?

It's the brand thing. Yeah.

And, but what, all right, so I have theories, but I—

What are your theories?

Okay, well, I just wanna understand yours and then we'll go to mine. This is my brand. So what, what does that do? What is that? What joy or meaning does it give them?

I don't know if it's answer. My argument is not that it gives them joy and meaning. I think it's literally how they understand life to work because they have lived online and they've, They've always— they've trumpeted their lives for so long on social media that they now think like that's going to be their job. Because they— I know it's not making sense to you, but it— but it's again, because you just don't understand how—

That's why I wanted you to speak first. I don't understand. It's so— you're much closer to it because of chronology.

They've lived their lives online their whole lives. So of course they think their job is going to be online too.

Okay, that's fair. I, I, I strongly suspect you're right.

Okay, what are your theories?

And my— by the way, in this case, they really are theories. I may— I don't— I know I'm not wedded to them, but I, I, I, I think it gives their lives meaning.

Oh, absolutely.

Okay, that's big. If I'm an influencer, I'm important. Most human beings want to be important. It's a very interesting and almost unspoken of issue, but the yearning to be important is, is huge. Are you ready to lose weight but not sure where to start? So I'd like to tell you why I chose PhD Weight Loss and Nutrition. First, Dr. Ashley Lucas has her PhD in chronic disease and sports nutrition. The program is science-based. The PhD program starts with nutrition and is much more. They know 90% of permanent change comes from the mind, and they work on eliminating reasons you gained weight in the first place. There are no shortcuts, no pills, no injections, just solid science. Science-based nutrition and behavior change. If you're ready to lose weight for, I think, the last time, call 864-644-1900, 864-644-1900 to get started, or online at myphdweightloss.com, myphdweightloss.com. Just make the appointment for your one-on-one consultation. Call today, 864-644-1900. Now interestingly, it used to be primarily in men. Women knew almost in their gut that just by having children and raising children, they were important, which is absolutely accurate. I don't know what's more important. Being the CEO of a shoe company, why is that more important than raising children, right? I mean, from a societal perspective, there's no comparison. Okay, but so men, though, men didn't give birth. Men generally were not the primary caretaker of children, so they had— they searched for meaning outside the house. That was— this is all a generalization, but generalizations are very important if they're accurate.

Absolutely.

Now both sexes want to be important, and neither will attach it to family. I'm not important because I'm married. I'm not important because I'm a father or mother. I'm important because I work with an animal rights group. That, that makes me important. So my thinking is if a third of girls want to be influencers, it's, it's because of the yearning to be important.

Absolutely. You're 100% right. I think there are a lot of things going on and that is a key component of it. And we have been, because of our culture, we think that is the way to be important. You know, right.

That makes Trump famous. Right.

And, and what I have—

Fame. Fame.

Yes.

Is important.

Yes. And, and what I have, what I hope, and again, sometimes this is part of why, to bring this conversation full circle, why you and I are just naturally bad at PR. But I also avoid some of the social media stuff because I don't wanna be seen as another influencer. 'Cause everybody and their mother in my gener— you know, I mean, I, in a weird way, I sort of am an influencer.

I know.

And you wanna be, but I know it's the irony of this conversation is like you're kind of sitting across from one herself.

Yeah.

And so part of, you know, but I'm trying to—

but when a third of the girls say they want to be influencers, it is—

it's like butt pics. I'm sorry.

Yeah. I, I, I, I'm hoping to teach people about the ethical route to a good life.

Yeah.

That's not what they have in mind.

I know.

That's what you have in mind.

I know. Recently on Timeless, I did this episode comparing Chinese propaganda in the 1960s about America to Chinese propaganda in 2024 about America. That's the way I'm trying to be an influencer.

Yes.

To influence people to see good and evil.

But, you know, the other day— oh, no, we remember the—

but I will. I will remember the—

but I just— I know I won't remember this. I want to tell you. So there is— if I'm out of my house, there's no day that somebody doesn't Yeah, you know, recognize me or say something, and you know that when you're— okay, so the other day I was— again, I, I always eat in restaurants. Uh, I, I have a weird idiosyncrasy of I don't like eating home except on my Sabbath, and then I like eating in my home or somebody else's home, but, but otherwise I like restaurants, and not fancy restaurants. I, I don't I don't like fancy restaurants. So I'm in a restaurant with my wife and a family recognized me. I'm meaning the parents, and they had young children. And this is what cracked me up. They go, well, you don't know this man, but he's very famous. And I, I remember so vividly what I wanted to say. I wanted to look at the kids and go, it's true, but it's not important. And I didn't want to undermine the parent. That is the only reason I wanted to— as a quote-unquote famous person, right? I wanted to tell those kids it doesn't mean anything.

We should really do a whole episode on, on fame. When I was, when I was younger, it's Okay, this is so funny. When I was younger, I really wanted to be famous. Now that I'm in a potential position to be famous, I don't care about being famous. I really don't. I care in the sense that I really would love— I would love people to discover my work because I think my work is important. And I think what I'm telling people is life-changing stuff.

Right, it's a means, not an end.

Yes, and I know that sounds like holier than thou. I swear to God, it's the truth.

I know it's true.

I feel like I have discovered all of these great truths thanks to, as I said, so many of my role models, so many of the great books I've read, and I just wanna like crank it out to people on such a variety of subjects. Every time I discover something new, I just wanna share it with people. But anyway, when I was younger, I really wanted to be famous. And it's fascinating for me to see that now I don't care as much because I think that I've come to see through other people that fame, fame can be a curse. But honestly, I think even more than that, it's not so much that I think fame is a bad thing as I have discovered how many things in life actually truly give you meaning.

Right.

Again, corny alert, but I like religion gives you so much meaning and it fills up your cup more than We, we really, we really, really do need to do an hour on fame.

It's very, very important. And the beauty is having some degree of it gives me credibility to talk about it. Yeah, because if you're not famous—

yes, yeah, me too. Yes, I'm totally kidding. Okay, I love that you thought I was being serious.

That was a good one.

Me too. I'm very famous.

Okay, well, you're more famous than, than a lot of people your age, but it doesn't— wow, no, no, it doesn't. Okay, you see, if you talk about it, it's, it's like people who say, oh, you know, oh, money doesn't make you happy, but if they don't have a lot of money, they don't have as much credibility as somebody who, right, who does. Yeah. So I, I can speak from the perspective of someone who, who has a fair degree of it. And you know, do you know, you speak of models, I have models too.

Oh my God, I thought you meant like, like supermodels.

Oh yeah, you mean role models?

You speak of models? Yes, you speak of Emily Ratajkowski? Okay, yes. You have them too.

So I'll give you an example of when I think about this. So you've heard of Chabad, right? Of course. This ultra-Orthodox Jewish group. They're all over. Chabad houses, all 50 U.S. states, all over the world.

Emily and Josh went in Japan.

They went. Yeah. Yeah. So did I. The Tokyo Chabad. Yes. So it is cool. So for those, again, who don't know this, there's this group group of bearded rabbis and their wives, and they set up a house called the Chabad House somewhere on Earth. In the— in Congo, there's a Chabad House. Did you know that? It's mind-blowing.

In the Congo?

In Congo.

Oh, that's hilarious, right? Wow.

So I, I visited Chabad of Cambodia.

They really are everywhere.

They're everywhere. And often quite lonely, obviously. How many Jews, let alone Palestinians?

How many Khmer Jews are there?

Right, exactly, Khmer Jews. It's Congo. It used to be the Congo. It's like it used to be the Ukraine. It's now Ukraine. It's the same with Congo. Anyway, so the, these, I know a lot of them very well. And they're very bright, they're very talented, and obviously very few of them are famous, right? I mean, they're obviously famous in their community.

You mean Chabad people?

Yes, Chabad rabbis. I mean, how many people could name a Chabad rabbi, right? Even Jews.

Even Julie.

Even Julie, correct.

The rabbi. I can name that.

They accomplish so much. A big reason they accomplish so much is they pursue the higher values rather than fame. So they, they, they know in their gut What counts is deep, not famous. Britney Spears is famous. Does anyone think she's happy?

Okay. What I'm about to say, and I know I preface a lot of what I say with this, maybe I shouldn't, but it's going to sound trite. It's going to sound, you know, touchy-feely. It's going to— and a lot of people may think it's disingenuous, but I swear to God, it's the truth. I think one of the biggest reasons that even though I'm in a, perhaps in a position to maybe be famous one day, I don't care about it in the same way that I did, you know, when I was younger is because the greatest gift of this job has, has been having a deep life.

Mm-hmm.

And I have discovered what a deep life can give. I mean, I, Having you and Sue and the Shabbat dinner crew and everybody in there, I know again, it's trite, but we work with such fantastic people and showing up every day and getting to talk about Chinese Communist Party propaganda or talking about some other really meaningful thing, reading the books that I read. I mean, I'm so blessed to have this deep, deep life. And I've worked at it, I've pursued it. You know, it's taken a lot of work. You know, even the extent to which I'm religious, it's taken a lot of work. But that is what has filled me. And so for the rest of my life, even if I'm not famous, I really do feel fulfilled because I know what it's like to have a deep life. And that will always be something that I will pursue. And I wish people knew that. I wish people knew the joys of a deep life because they think, oh, but you'll still want fame or you'll still, You actually won't.

Well, that's why, that's why so many mothers are living through their daughter's fame, a lot of that, and which is, which is so unhealthy. Just even if the fame were healthy fame, but the fame is the appeal to very, very ill people. Who want to see prepubescent girls in swimsuits.

I know.

I, I mean, that the yearning for fame is, is greater than the well-being of my daughter.

As, as we have said over and over, we're in a very unhealthy confused culture. And it's, it really is. We have to keep, we have to keep our values alive and we have to keep these truths alive because this is what happens when people get away from them. That mother doesn't have a community, probably doesn't have a community, probably doesn't have a religious life, doesn't have healthy, you know, moral instruction.

And she, this is what happens.

Yes. I heard what he said. Sean said people can tell people how to reach you on social, on the social media. You don't understand. This is like the— I'm like, yeah, follow me, but also get the hell off of that crap. Well, follow me and I promise you I'm giving you something good. I'm not going to— I'm not going to give you what I'm eating for lunch.

Even though I'm sitting at that table was not reading, you know, Will Durant's history of the Western world on Kindle. Okay. True. I mean, if he was okay. Okay.

Well, no, that's, that's the thing. I have to use social media because that's the way that we promote this. And if I can promise people something, it's that I will give you I will give you something that is worth your swipe. It is worth your time.

As is this. I hope people will tell people about Dennis and Julie.

Yeah, we should take a PR course.

I do, I do believe it can really contribute to people.

Yes, I agree.

Understanding and living a better life. So tell them, because I'm curious.

So funny. This is just, the irony is hilarious. You can follow me at Julie R. Hartman. Sean's cracking up. I know it's so ironic.

It's not ironic.

It kind of is. It kind of is.

Okay. It's like saying— it's like the people who say guns are bad. Yeah, guns are bad in the hands of bad people.

No, you're right. That's actually a very good point.

Yes.

I love how I said actually, like it's a— anyway, what's yours now? I'm forgetting. @TheDennisPrager.

No, the way Dennis Prager.com. No, but this is the whole thing.

You have to promote yourself.

Okay.

@DennisPrager on Twitter. @TheDennisPrager. Dennis Prager on Instagram, and I'm @JulieRHeartman. And you can email me at julie@julie-heartman.com. I love hearing from you. And you can catch Dennis and Julie every Sunday at 1:00 Pacific, 4:00 Eastern, right here on the Julie Hartman YouTube channel.

Nice. Thank you, everybody.

Bye.

Your beloved dog and a stranger are both drowning. You can only save one. Who do you save? Every time Dennis Prager asks that question, his audience splits three ways. One-third chooses the dog, one-third chooses the stranger, and one-third aren't sure.

Why?

Because we live in an age where increasingly feelings define right and wrong. But if morality is based on emotion, then murder, rape, and theft are just opinions. And if people feel justified, why is rioting or destruction wrong at all? In his new book, If There Is No God, Dennis Prager explains why civilizations cannot survive without objective morality. And why Judeo-Christian values shape the moral foundations of the free world.

If you claim that certain things are good, certain things are evil, independent of how you feel about it, you are in effect affirming God.

If There Is No God by Dennis Prager, available now at PragerStore.com. That's PragerStore.com.