Perspective is Everything

Your dog and a stranger are drowning. You can only save one. Who do you choose? Dennis Prager says your answer reveals everything about how you define right and wrong. In his new book, If There Is No God, Prager exposes the danger of emotion-based morality and why without objective truth, society descends into chaos. This isn't a religious book. It's a rational case for moral clarity in a confused age. If There Is No God from Dennis Prager. Order now at PragerStore.com. Well, hello there. Dennis Prager and Julie Hartman, the Dennis and Julie Podcast. You know, I've said this a lot. I'm sorry, but we get excited doing this. I, I have a feeling that that's contagious. It's an interesting question. Can people— we won't— this is not the subject because we never know the subject, but it's an interesting thing because I've been doing public all of my life, so Obviously I pay attention to the whole issue of what elicits interest from an audience and what doesn't. People sense when a person enjoys what they're doing or not.

We did a whole episode on this fairly recently. Yes, we did.

Well, that's really sad that I didn't think we did. No, no.

I have to admit. I knew that you would react that way, but you do so much.

I mean, come on.

You're very kind. It's not kind, it's just true. You do your radio show, you speak, You do the fireside chat, you do Dennis and Julie, you go on Newsmax once a week. You were just on, you know, Piers and the Charlie Kirk Show. I'm the human recording machine. It's quite all right. But we did do an episode on this.

It's, by the way, I saw it just out of curiosity. So forget the public part, which we obviously did in private life. It's also true.

I'm only laughing because we did that too.

Why don't we start again? Hi everybody, Dennis Prager and Julie Hartman.

We did— do you remember this? Because it was really a great episode. You talked about how your dad, uh, learned to love that.

No, no, no, that— yes. And by the way, that made an impact on a lot of people because a lot of people don't realize you can tell yourself to enjoy something. Yes, it happens. You— so I get a lot of I get a lot of attacks and I get a lot of compliments. And that's just the nature of one's life if you're out there. I understand that. I have no issue. What is interesting to me are the compliments. What do they compliment? That, it's, you know, the compliments, you know, don't, don't. If I don't hit the microphone once a show, it's not me, It's an AI robot. But then the interesting part is what are they complimenting? Very often it is about happiness, which touches me a great deal. I have made you a happier person. And their two biggest things, and then we're gonna get into our subject that we did in fact mention right before the podcast, are that it's a moral obligation. Happiness is a moral obligation. That is a brand new thought to nearly everyone, totally understandably, and it affects a lot of people. Wow, I owe it to people to have a happy disposition? I never thought of that. And the other is, just last week, somebody, some bright person It was obviously a bright person, said, "Your statement." Oh, who, I do remember, one minute. Oh yes, yes. It was at the dinner, holiday, Jewish holiday dinner with people that I had not met before. And this woman, about 40 years old, It was entire— I was really, really moved. It was entirely me that moved her from the left to traditional, good, Judeo-Christian, call it what you want, values.

There's another person for whom you facilitated that.

Who's also bright. Who's also bright. So she said, but she's really the whole gamut, including happiness. When you wrote and said, Dennis, Happiness is a choice.

Oh, it's everything. It's everything. Sorry, I don't know.

I want you to comment. Yes.

Well, this, I think, nicely segues into something that in a rare occasion we did mention to each other before the podcast, which is this great issue of perspective, which you and I believe is, is everything.

And well, let me just make the connection for everybody. You can't be happy if you don't have perspective. Yes, that's, that's what the connection, right?

And happy— happiness is a choice. Perspective is a choice. You can, you can take two people and put them in the same situation and they can emerge with totally different outcomes depending on how they viewed the situation. So recently, you'll, you'll find this to, to be touching, I think. I went to a place that I frequent, who— and there's a guy there who's a parking attendant. And I always see him when I, when I go to this place. And he, he's sort of a security guard and a parking attendant. And he has a very, very obvious physical defect on his face, an injury, I believe, but it's, it's, it's quite grizzly looking at his face. And he is always, always the happiest, sweetest, most magnanimous, you know, person. I just— and I actually—

impressive.

I actually had never spoken to him, but I've gone to this place a few times and I'll always see him. And I just noticed I could see it without even talking with him, that he just has a cheerful disposition. So recently I went up to him I said, what's your name? And he told me his name. And I said, you always just seem so happy.

Tell me again, what is his role? What is it?

He's a parking attendant.

Okay, go ahead.

And I just, I just sense this guy.

Folks, I'd want to say something. I'm as close to tears as I could get without tearing up.

Really? I didn't see that.

I'm telling you, I'm telling you why. You won't— you'll be touched.

Why?

Because you're such a good person. No, really, I'm, I'm choking up that you went over to him. How many people go over to a parking attendant who doesn't have a facial problem like he does? You're, you're— I love you for your goodness. More even than for your intellect. And there's a very rare, uh, public moment of real, um, vulnerability on my part. But, uh, that you did that is so in keeping with who you are. It took my breath away. Guy has a big ugly problem on his face and a parking attendant. And you go, hey, what's your name? You have no idea how it affected me when you said that.

I'm very touched. Thank you. And you— the risk of complimenting, which I know some listeners have flagged— you, you are— have the same level of goodness. You are a deeply, deeply good person.

So, okay, this is going to take us off, but I don't care. And then we're going to get back because it's the choice issue and perspective is huge. And we had great examples at the, the dinner we were at. So, uh, did you know you were a good person?

Always, yes.

That's fascinating.

It was the thing I cared most about. And as you often say—

So if I met you when you were 10?

Absolutely. No, no. Well, you know, so I really appreciate when you share things about your life. And I was guest hosting for you recently, and I welcomed Professor Glenn Lowry to the show who wrote a book about Black conservatism. People should check it out. And he, on the air, on national radio with me, was talking about when he was a drug addict, was talking about when he cheated on his now late wife. Sharing your life is such a gift to other people because we're all experiencing trials and tribulations in life alongside each other. For some reason on this show, I've, I've hesitated to talk very fully about some elements of my life, but I'll make it an exception. I think my sister Gina has had almost everything to do with my goodness. Because growing up, and I've mentioned this, but, you know, it's, it's really painful to talk about because it was just so horrible. People don't understand how hard it is to have not just a severely autistic sibling, but one who was being neglected and abused in a group home. And growing up, Gina would come over to our house for weekly visits. And she would have bruises on her and she can't speak. She can't go, "Hey, you know, these people are abusing me." There was one incident when I was 14 and California Highway Patrol called my parents' house. And there was a police officer on the phone and my dad picked up and heard Gina screaming in the background of the phone call. And California Highway Patrol said, "We found this girl on the side of the freeway." And my dad said, "You know, that's my daughter. I can hear her in the background." And the California Highway Patrol said, "You know, she's clearly very disabled, but we just asked and she blurted out your home phone number." Because growing up, even though she can't speak very much, my parents had trained her to have our home phone number. Her caretakers were so negligent They let Gina wander out of the house. They didn't see that she was gone. She wandered a mile away from her group home, and she was found by that heroic California Highway Patrol officer on the entrance of the 405 freeway. I shudder to think, of course, what would happen if someone else had decided to take her in her car.

You can't survive crossing a freeway.

So I am always extremely attuned to the feelings of other people. I'm all— I'm I'm very attuned to the suffering of other people. And so when I see that parking attendant with the very obvious, my radar just goes right to that person because growing up, I think, and again, this has benefited me later in life, I'm seeing that it has. I knew real evil from the time that I was little. You can't escape looking at real evil in the face when your autistic sister who you see, you know, is abused, is being abused. You look, you learn to stare evil in its dark, ugly face.

So you really think that— I know it sounds like I'm having you brag, but no, it doesn't matter to be objective about— you're a good person. Do you— you— I didn't know that you attribute your goodness to Gina.

Well, I think I was born with it, again, if we're being very honest.

I was born with it.

But she heightened it.

Oh, I agree. That's what I think.

And looking evil and suffering in the face is not scary. I mean, it is scary to me.

But it is an interesting question, and I don't have the answer to it. Do people who grow up with an impaired sibling, or one who died prematurely, which by, well, if they grew up, it's definitional, it's premature. Do they generally become finer human beings?

I think so.

You do. I would love, I wonder if any serious study of that has ever been conducted.

Because you don't have the luxury of avoiding real life. You have, I mean, from the time I was little, I was contemplating questions like, why was I born normal and she was born autistic? Why are people evil? Why do people abuse autistic individuals? You, you, you literally have to confront those questions because it's your sibling. You can't avoid real life. And right now we're seeing in the United States an avoidance of reality, an avoidance of real life. If you deny that there are only two genders, you are avoiding reality or deny that men and women are basically different.

That's which is— that's what started me that Well, actually, what started me in my antipathy to the left as opposed to liberals was that they didn't hate evil. They didn't hate communism. If you didn't hate communism, your moral compass was broken. So that was clear to me when I was a teenager. But this is a very big factor, not acknowledging reality. We'll save that for another time. The— this is a perfect segue into what we were talking about before. Having a suffering sibling, among the many things it teaches you, I, I have to assume, certainly you, is you— it gives you perspective. That's the subject we wanted to talk about on life. Yeah. Hey, life isn't a bowl of cherries, to utilize one of the oldest clichés. It's not. Suffering is part of life.

Yes.

When a girl came up to me, I know I've mentioned this, but it doesn't matter. It's a perfect example. A girl gets up at the microphone at one of the universities I spoke at, and I always say, if you don't agree with me, come up first. So she doesn't agree with me. Or Dennis or Mr. Prager, I don't remember which. Are you saying that women in America are not persecuted?

Yes.

Yes.

Generally, yes.

Yes. You— the lack of perspective.

Yes.

To understand how good she has it. I wonder if she had a suffering sibling, just to give an example. So I, this, the big one, and it's in my book on happiness, Happiness Is a Serious Problem, which does really affect people's lives. I know this from so much feedback. So people should read it. You wanna get a used copy, it's fine. I'm not doing this for royalties.

Trust me, he's not.

Right.

You're the least concerned with money person I've probably ever met.

Right, which has not been a blessing, but well, it's been both. It's a blessing and not a blessing, but it is what it is. So I have a chapter on expectations— not expectations, I do have a chapter on expectations. I have a chapter on perspective. Perspective is everything. If you're still waiting to buy gold, sitting on the sidelines might cost you precious gains. This is Dennis Prager for AmFed Coin and Bullion. That's my choice for precious metals. The current economic climate could make buying gold a very desirable safe haven commodity. The government's overprinting of money, the fluctuation of interest rates, and high inflation can all impact the value of gold, and it's why you should seriously consider buying now. I've been working with AmFed Coin and Bullion's owner, Nick Grovich, for years. Glad that I jumped into the precious metals market when I did, but it's never too late. Nick's been in the industry for over 42 years, and he's proud of providing transparency and fair pricing to build long-term relationships. Nick and his team have my back, and they will have yours. They recommend what's in my best interest, not theirs, and I never worry about hidden commissions or huge markups. If you're interested in buying or selling, call AmFed Coin and Bullion for a free coin performance review 800-221-7694. AmericanFederal.com. AmericanFederal.com. If you don't see the big picture and you're preoccupied with your own little world, you can't be happy. Mm-hmm. If you can't put your issues in perspective, You know, so my wife does X, or my husband does X, which is annoying, but basically I'm really married to a good person. That's perspective.

Yep.

Because everyone has a spouse that does something annoying. It's not— everyone has a friend that does. Everyone has an employer or employee. It is not possible unless you marry yourself you will have— there will be something annoying in the other person. So your task is to ignore it, is to say, so what? The big picture is I have this gift for a wife, I have this gift for a husband, or, or, or child, or friend, or employer, or whatever it is. You— the perspective is everything.

Well, it's a missing tile syndrome. That you zero in on the—

Well, that's right. Well, it's funny, which I have, it's a separate chapter, but you're right, they are there. Well, the irony is every chapter is related to perspective.

Yes. So I want to finish telling you about Arturo, is his name, the parking attendant.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, go ahead.

So, because speaking of perspective, I mean, so I walked up to him and I said, what's your name? And I guess I just said it, his name's Arturo. And I said, I just want you to know that I notice that you're always joyful, and I really appreciate that. And you know what he said to me?

What?

He said, thank you so much. And he said, but honestly, I don't do it for you guys. I do it for me. I do it to keep me— I do it for my— and he said, I have to be here until 1:30 AM. And he said, I do it, I do it to keep me going. And I said, well, you're doing— you're giving us all a gift.

Where is this parking attendant? Is it here?

I didn't want to say it was—

No, no.

So, well, I think you've seen him.

Oh, I say hello to him every morning. But he's here all day. He's here till 1:30 a.m. Oh, yeah. Well, okay. So it's funny. Maybe because you're female. I don't see his facial impediment as big as you do.

I saw when I first saw him, it was very— it was glaring to me. Yes. But now I don't. Now when I—

Yeah. But so then, oh God, you know, so I say we should invite him in. I say lovely. I say good morning to him every day.

Isn't he so cheerful?

Yes. I love that. You know, here's the thing. The killer. Next time I'm gonna go, how you doing, Arturo? And I'm curious if we'll go, you know my name.

I wanted to disguise the details a little bit because I didn't know if he would want us speaking about it.

All you're doing is complimenting him.

So I don't always see him. I— but I've— but I don't always see him when I— because you get here earlier than I do.

Uh, I have felt sad about his facial—

me?

Yeah, it's not as gigantic as you in my opinion, as you made it out. But it is there.

I mean, I mean, it's pretty gigantic.

You can't miss it. Well, in that sense, gigantic is in the eye of the beholder. Maybe it might be a function of me that I don't want to acknowledge how bad it is. I'm not kidding. I don't want to feel that bad for him. So it might— I—

well, he doesn't feel bad for himself. Yeah. So I've interacted with him a few because we used to, you know, wave. And now—

so he said he does it for himself.

Yes, he's— oh, he's so— you're gonna—

he's a thinker.

So, so then I came back a few— yes, I think this was yesterday, you know, it's hard to have my whole timeline. And I said to him, what kind of chocolate do you like, dark or milk? And he goes, milk. And I go, okay, and I swipe in and I drive in. And then today I was driving in and I said to him, I'm so sorry, I don't have your chocolate. And he goes, oh, I've been thinking of you. And he said, it doesn't matter that you don't He said, I don't want you to worry about when you're going to bring it. It just matters that you're thinking about me. And then I said, do you believe in God? And he said, absolutely. And I said, I knew you would.

I knew it.

And then, and then I said, you're doing it. And I said, are you doing all right today? And he goes, I am. I woke up this morning. That is so— that so checks out.

Well, he sounds like a philosopher.

Well, he—

I mean, he's a parking attendant philosopher.

I feel like every I feel like I've discovered this secret in life that a lot of people don't know. It's right in front of us, but people don't know it. There are gems of humans everywhere. You just have to have your eyes open to them. Doesn't matter if they're a parking attendant. Doesn't matter if they're old. Doesn't matter if— sorry, Sean's gonna get mad that I'm banging the table.

I have a reaction.

He's cracking up.

Why is he cracking up?

Because I was going, doesn't matter, and I'm banging the table, and he always makes fun of me for doing that. At least I caught it.

You know, he's laughing, but he—

Does it matter if they're your producer who gets mad at you?

He makes fun of you so much. It's just, it's cruel. It's cruel. I can't laugh. I'm glad he's laughing. I really want you guys to talk about the relationship between perspective and being a good person.

Is it a requirement?

Can you be a bad person with perspective? Okay, so he wants to talk— No. So he wants us to talk about the connection between perspective, not unhappiness only, but goodness. Right? Yeah. Okay. Hold on.

Oh, I have such a response to that.

Yes. So this is a gigantic subject, the perspective. So what I want people to— I want the only way— this is something I knew from the beginning of my speaking career and writing career. You must give examples or anything you say is pablum. That's why whenever I hear, okay, America is systemically racist. Oh, really? Okay. Give me examples.

Good tip. That's a really good tip.

Oh, if you don't have examples, you are lying to yourself. You're making up pablum. Okay, so everything is examples. Every time I write, one could check this out. There are examples. I give a generalization and then examples, generalization, then examples. So here is on the perspective. So let's see, we discussed a whole host of things at this holiday, this Jewish holiday lunch that you attended with our Friday night crowd. Most of our— much of our— not all of our Friday night crowd.

It's really fun.

It was. But as usual, the great— just great conversation. I mean, so every— everybody at the table provided examples. I mean, you know, and that's what is one of my mottos in life. And we have a jingle. Even one listener made a jingle out of it. If like, if nothing's horrific, life is terrific. That's perspective. You're complaining. Well, wait a minute. Is it horrific? That's a perspective question. Is it horrific or is it a nuisance? So go on, go on.

No, it's just look at, you know, look at what Arturo said. He said, I am joyful because I have to stay here at 1:30 in the morning. Because when I said to him, I just want you to know, I always appreciate that you seem very joyful. He said, I'm doing it for me and not so much for you. He actually— maybe he listens to Dennis and Julie. He actually was following what we were saying a few episodes ago about you can learn to love something or you can convince yourself to find joy in your job no matter how difficult your job may be. So it just substantiates the point that perspective is everything. But I have so been trying to adopt this in my life in every way. I mean, when I think, for instance, about the fact that for the rest of my life, I'll have to take care of Gina. I mean, already, and I'm not married with children yet, but I already have a child. You know, I mean, I already have— I'm her conservator, and that's— and I'm not going to lie, that's a, that's a burden. Yeah, that's a, that's a big burden. But you know what I think? I swear to God, and, and your influence in my life has really helped me with this. I think, okay, well, I wasn't born the one autistic. I get to get married. I get to have kids. I get to take a swing at life. Gina doesn't get a life. I get an opportunity at a life. That perspective is what makes me, when I think, oh my gosh, how am I going to have kids and then support her? And I have to live near her because I want to visit her. And financially, I got to make sure that I'm setting myself up well and my family up well, but also I need to financially take— whenever I start thinking that and I go, oh gosh, this is going to be so hard, I go, God, God blessed you by not making you autistic. Be grateful.

Or God, or life, or whatever. But you were blessed. You know, I'm thinking about— I don't have respect for most therapists. Some are terrific.

Abigail Shrier would agree with you.

Yes, I said this before she was born, just for the record. No, no, this is not taking away. I know the woman is brilliant. The woman is a gift.

She's such a gift.

She's a lovely person and lovely. Correct.

By the way, we're referencing Abigail Shryock and Bad Therapy. Her book is called Bad Therapy.

That's right. It's a very important book. So, so why, why am I mentioning that? What happens in, in most therapy sessions is the, the end of perspective. It's, it's drilling deeper into the hole in which you are. Instead of saying, you know, the world is filled with holes. No, my— let's talk about my hole. There is no one on earth who cannot figure out why they should be miserable. Okay, that person has not been invented.

I'm so glad, by the way, that I did this before the show. I knew I would want to have 80 things to respond to, so I have a piece of paper and a pen here. It's so— it is so true. A lot of therapy legitimize—

yes, you're preoccupied with your issues. The therapist does what therapist says. You know, I got to tell you, in the pantheon of the human condition, your, your issues are not that big. They would lose a patient.

So much to say to this. Okay. This is— I always say in life, life is about balancing contradictions. Right. And here's a great example of that. When someone is suffering in life, we, we have to validate— well, we don't always have to— if it's legitimate, legitimate, if it's legitimate, we validate what they're saying. But also, that has to be tempered with a healthy dose of perspective. And so something that, that I think about a lot is— and you actually referenced it before the show— and I'm not trying to complain, I'm very grateful, but it's brutal sometimes being a woman on the air. I gotta be very careful with how I look. I mean, there are The things that I'm looking for is my, forgive me, is my bra showing, my hair has to look good, my makeup. I mean, I'm looking at things, sometimes my makeup smudges, and it's a lot of work. I do my own hair, I do my own makeup, I do my own wardrobe, and I never complain in my head about it, but sometimes when I find myself going, this is such a pain, I just don't wanna worry about looking glam today. I swear to God, you know what I think about? I think about the Taliban outlawing beauty salons in Afghanistan.

That's brilliant. That is brilliant.

I swear on my mother's life that every time I go down that road of going, Dennis before Dennis and Julie just gets to eat his dark chocolate and Julie has to go do her hair and look beautiful, you know what I think? You're so lucky that you get to express your femininity. You're so lucky that you get to show your hair. You're so lucky you get to show your shoulders. I mean, you know how many women know? It's so important. You know how many women in the world cannot show their hair? We take this for— we just walk around like this is for granted. It's not for granted. It's because people fought for our right to show our hair.

Or that thousands of people— that you have to look like this for thousands of people. How many people could say that?

Absolutely. And I go, oh, oh, yeah, you're going to complain about having to do your hair to go sit and do Dennis and Julie. You know, your show with Dennis Prager. I just— I swat out any of that crap from my head.

But, you know, the examples are legion. Yes, that was the word in my mind.

I knew it was. By the way, you started— I— you don't— I don't think you even noticed this. You started to go, I saw you about to say L. You're right.

I was. I don't know why I didn't say it, but it was good.

That's okay.

I did. Yes, correct. So here's one. So I am a somewhat— I'm not a big sports fan, but especially hockey. So, but it doesn't matter what sport it is. So there are teams— I'll take baseball. Baseball is more widely known than hockey. A lot of hockey fans, but not as many baseball. So there are teams that basically never win, okay? They just don't. Year after year. Chicago White Sox comes to mind as an example. The Cubs are pretty close behind, but they won one year. And I think often, I actually think, you know, I feel bad for the guys on that team. I do. It's just odd. I mean, I have nothing to do with Chicago. I, you know, I mean, I speak there, but I have nothing— no connection to Chicago, no emotional connection, certainly. And here I am feeling bad for the guys on the White Sox or some other perennially losing team. But what I realize is I have lost perspective. Do you know how lucky every guy on the Chicago White Sox is making at least $1 million to put up?

Puck?

No, no, no, this is, this is baseball. Oh, okay. If they put pucks in the net on the White Sox, they really do get off the team quickly. Are you ready to lose weight but not sure where to start? So I'd like to tell you why I chose PhD Weight Loss and Nutrition. First, Dr. Ashley Lucas has her PhD in chronic disease and sports nutrition. The program is science-based. The PhD program starts with nutrition and is much more. They know 90% of permanent change comes from the mind, and they work on eliminating reasons you gained weight in the first place. There are no shortcuts, no pills, no injections, just solid science, science-based nutrition and behavior change. If you're ready to lose weight for, I think, the last time, call 864-644-1900, 864-644-1900. To get started, or online at myphdweightloss.com. myphdweightloss.com. Just make the appointment for your one-on-one consultation. Call today, 864-644-1900. So here, if I could— if, if a team called me in, and, and it might happen in, in one case, I won't mention the team, But to speak to players, I would say, you know, you've got to, you know, everybody knows you work hard to win. That would be no great insight on my part. But I want you never to lose sight of how lucky you are to be in the major leagues, even if you're on the worst team in the major leagues. Do you know how many guys in the minor leagues spend their lives in the minor leagues?

Yes. Well, look at even what Arturo said to me when I think it was the conversation we had this morning where I said, you doing okay? And he said, yeah, I was. I woke up this morning.

That's perspective.

That's perspective. I mean, every time— and I've seen many of these individuals over the years through my sister's schools and group homes. People are wheelchair-bound. People are— I mean, We don't— we, we forget. We able-bodied people haven't a clue of what physically disabled people have to go through to just go to the bathroom.

That's right.

And so, and it's not, it's not easy maintaining perspective because the human condition is to, to not have perspective, is to complain. And we all complain. But there are times when if I'm climbing a flight of stairs because the elevator is out in my apartment building, as was the case this morning, and I'm going, I'm lugging my groceries up, woe is me. I go, you know what, Julie, you get to walk. And I know that sounds trite and I don't care, it's the truth.

And you get to go to an American grocery store.

Oh, oh my gosh, it's so funny you say that. I was thinking that today when I was in the store. I was thinking because I was talking with my friend and her father grew up in Cuba and immigrated to the United States. So she's first generation, American. And she told me this story a few years ago that I've never forgotten because it showed me how much I take our system for granted. She told me that when her father first came to America and he came to Florida and he walked into a Walmart, she said her father fell down on his knees.

Every one came from a communist country that I've spoken to had the same—

fell on his knees.

That's right.

He couldn't even hold his, his stature. He fell to the ground because— and apparently he said, what abundance. And so this morning, as I'm in the store, I looked around and I thought, what abundance. You know, I grew up with this abundance, so I'm lucky to not know the alternative. But, Julie, remind yourself that there is an alternative.

Yes. Look, Go on.

Okay. Sorry. No, I know.

I heard your inhale.

I know you heard my inhale and I felt bad.

No, no, no, no. Great.

But, you know, Sean was asking a few minutes ago what the relationship is between perspective and being a good person. And I think that good people have a lot of ingredients in their good person batch that makes them who they are. But I think a mandatory, necessary ingredient is perspective, because without perspective, you can't be grateful.

And without gratitude, that's You can't be happy.

You think— because here's what a person with perspective has, as someone who's trying to have it myself. A person with perspective has knowledge of good and evil. And in order to be a good person, you need to have knowledge of good and evil. In order to have perspective, you need to have knowledge of good and evil. Look at my example with being a woman. It is my knowledge of good and evil that allows me to have the perspective that doing my hair every day, make hair and makeup every day, yeah, it can get annoying, but it's really not something to complain about because I get to do it. Does that make sense?

That— of course. Well, but that's back to— I think the obvious benefit of perspective is gratitude.

Yes, but I think what Sean was asking is the relationship between perspective and being a good person. And I really think that, that good people—

I—

have you ever met a good person who doesn't have perspective?

I doubt it. I doubt it. Yeah. Because even because if you have a good heart but no perspective, you won't be a good person because you don't have knowledge of good and evil. Well, that's part of it. It's— but perspective is beyond just good and evil. It is just— it's really about something else. As much as good and evil, I think suffering and not suffering.

Yes. Yeah, that's really true.

Well, that's the big one. Because I, at such an early age, I knew suffering is part of life. What we have on college campuses with this scum who do these encampments on behalf of the Nazis of our day, they are spoiled brats. They think that, that life is, is just to be easy. And, you know, and they have They have this— their arrogant dismissal of what's good, like America. Death to America. That somebody in America would chant death to America. This is such a disgusting human being. But to think that America is this giant problem. What, do you know anything about the world? And the answer is no, because they have no perspective. Capitalism is bad? Oh really? What's your alternative? When socialism has been tried, millions of people have suffered horrifically and been killed and tortured. You know nothing. You're a fool. You're a giant fool. You're a disgrace. Have I made myself clear? You're good. Okay, so he wants us to quote, finish it out. Can you be a good person without being happy? Happy people, good, happy people are better people. There are very few evil happy people. Okay. I don't, I don't think of the—

I don't know if I—

well, no, you think the average, you think the average scum on the college campuses with these— no, is a happy person.

I don't. But do you think Hitler was a happy person? Do you think Stalin was?

Yes. So I think there was a evil, happy deviousness to them. Yes, I agree with you. I agree with you. I think— well, I don't know the answer fully. Stalin might have been. I don't— I can't speak about whether Hitler was a happy person. I don't know. I could tell you that Stalin, who I know more about than Hitler, but Stalin was paranoid, was totally paranoid. He was, you know, his chef would, or his whatever it was, would eat everything he had to eat first. So if it was poisoned, he would drop dead rather than Stalin. When you think that Everybody wants to kill you. I don't— I can't believe that that contributes to much happiness.

You know, oh, God, I have so much to say. Again, thank God I have this.

But here, wait, wait, wait. Can you be a good person without being happy? Yes. Yes, you can.

Absolutely. Oh my gosh. So many good people are very unhappy. Well, no, because they're so good.

And what?

And they martyr themselves. A lot of people— I mean, not— I shouldn't say a lot of people, but I know people who are very, very, very good people and they do the right thing even and especially when it's hard and they're unhappy as a result.

You do?

Yeah.

So wait, wait, wait.

I want—

I want to— this has— look, obviously, I know people who take care of their ailing relatives.

Who give their whole lives to their ailing relatives, and they pay a big price. They pay a huge price.

That's a good point. So yeah, yeah, so that's fair, that's true. But so there are— so let's make it clear to everybody who's listening. There are happy people— excuse me, there are good people who are not happy, but the vast majority of happy people are good. There is a connection between the two. It is not 100%, but it is up there. Look, if I am at a dinner party and there's a dour human being, I don't mean someone who's just having a bad day, but a dour human, my assumption is never, oh, they must be a kind soul. I just—

well, I knew— I'll give you the flip side of that. I suspected that Arturo was a fantastic person because even from yards away when I'm parking my car, I could sense he was joyful.

Okay, that's happy. Yes.

And then when I walked up to him, he was a dazzling human being, right? So This is an interesting thing. I often wonder, I mean, all day I wonder about God's design of the universe, the way things work. It's so curious and interesting to me that suffering or knowledge of suffering can facilitate such happiness. It's a weird thing, isn't it? That, and you've brought this up on Dennis and Julie and undoubtedly on your radio show. Is it a blessing to have a happy childhood?

Right. Yeah.

And we both have said we're not so, you know, we're not so sure.

Right.

And I'll give you another example. So recently, as you know, I was in Rome. It's funny, actually, though, I say recently because at this point it was a few months ago, but I did shows on Timeless about the magnificent architecture there. And in St. Peter's Basilica, They have the very famous Pietà of Michelangelo, you know, Mary holding Jesus, right? A dead Jesus. And I stood in front of there and looked at it. And my— I actually was there alone. My parents had been to the Vatican earlier that day, and I went alone later in the day. I went back a few times, and I stood in front of there and I thought about my mom. I thought about what my mom must feel standing in front of that pieta, because she lost a child in Gina. And my mom has been— you can't imagine how valorous. I mean, my whole upbringing, she was pursuing litigation against the state of California. Talk about staring evil in the face, unearthing this evidence of her daughter, her precious daughter being abused. And she did her best and my dad too, to try to shield it from me. I mean, she was just and is the most heroic, valorous person. But I thought of her and what she must feel looking at that. And then I thought about all the other people that would come through this basilica and what they would think standing in front of that pieta. And then that line of thought.

That's why it's so moving.

That line of thought led me to— and I think she'll feel comfortable with my saying her name— my friend Anne, who lost her brother when she was 10 years old. And I thought of her mother. And I know they had gone to Rome recently. And I thought, what does Anne's mom think standing in front of that Pietà? And then I turned and I looked at all the people in the Basilica. And I started wondering, what are they feeling? What is their cross that they're bearing? And everyone has one.

What is their child that they're holding, either literally or figuratively? Yeah, that's right.

But that's perspective. And weirdly, having that moment, and it was— I mean, you were tearing up earlier in this episode. I look at that pieta and the tears just flow. They just— and I'm not a crier, but they just really flow. I had a, I had a very heavy, somber moment in that, in that basilica. But then I went out and had such a fun day. And I think it's because of that somber— because I walked out into Rome and I don't have a dead child, you know?

Yeah. By the way, talk about going off on a tangent. This, I never ever thought about this till you said, I'm not a crier.

Yeah.

Well, I'm not a crier either.

You're a tear-upper.

Oh yeah, I tear up at the end of Brahms' Second. I mean, that's easy. I tear up at sad movies, but that's not a crier. And I wonder And it is a wonder. I'm not making any statement. I'm wondering, is there any connection between goodness and a crier? Hmm. Are criers more likely to be good or not good?

With the way this conversation is going, will we say, is there any connection between good people and wearing red shirts.

Oh, we're getting there.

We're getting there. Honda Civics.

That's right. We're getting there. It's true.

But it's— it's—

see, the, the, the, the people in my life, and they're all really— you know them. They're really good people.

They really are.

The thing I'm—

well, that's what unifies all of us.

Yes, that's right. Not one of them is a crier, male or female.

That's true. You're the biggest crier of all.

No, I'm the tearer.

That's right.

Yeah, yeah.

Whoa, whoa, whoa.

I've cried— I cried once in my memory, uh, literally in my memory. I don't even remember crying as a child.

I know what it is— when you're on the plane.

Oh yes, well, that was sobbing. I— that was because I— when I left the Soviet Union But, and that was for the sadness that I could leave with a passport and—

Talk about perspective.

Yeah, that was all perspective. No, the time I really cried, it was actual crying, was when I spoke at the funeral of my late wife. And we had divorced. It actually, I mean, I've never spoken about this ever publicly. Shows how— that's what Dennis and Julie brings out of Dennis. But I really cried. I was shocked at myself. And I— since then, I have been trying to figure out why were you crying? You guys divorced, and it wasn't a pleasant divorce. One of the most fascinating things I've done recently is to get a brain SPECT scan. I went to bestselling author Dr. Daniel Amen at Amen Clinics. They're known as the best brain and mental health company in the world. Most psychiatrists sort of guess what your problems are, maybe very intelligent guesses, but Amen Clinics treats a variety of mental health issues and actually looks at the organ it treats, the brain. You can get 10% off an Amen Clinics evaluation. Go to amenclinics.com/dennis. Talking to Dr. Amen about my brain health, which turned out to be, thank God, really good, was very informative, extremely informative. I see now why looking at the brain before treatment is so important to getting the right treatment. And how it supports targeted treatment for conditions like ADD, depression, memory, and more. Visit amenclinics.com/dennis to learn more about their brain-based approach to mental health, or call 844-256-7266. 844-256-7266, and get 10% off by using the code Dennis10. And, um, and I, I, I, I can only say that it was probably over what could have been and wasn't. I was probably crying over the death of the marriage as much as her death.

And if I may speak for you. I think you were probably crying for Aaron, too.

That's very possible. I don't want to— I don't want to take credit where it might not be due. I don't know. I— it might have been a factor, by the way. And just for the record, my son Aaron does a podcast, AP Unfiltered.

One word.

You guys are getting quite close. And it is—

he is just— I just adore him.

Well, he adores you, and it's a— he, he's very special.

And talk about talking about your life to help other people. Aaron, as many listeners probably know, struggled with addiction for—

he was born— he was adopted by his late mom and me when they was born, but we did not know for years she was a meth addict.

But he talks about— I mean, he, he came on Timeless and talked about some grisly stories of his addiction and how he turned it around. And he, he's just a very God-centered person.

I just want to offer his great answer when he was on the fireside chat. I almost never have guests, and people should watch it, the fireside chat that I— PragerU fireside chat I did. I almost never have guests, maybe twice a year. The guest I had before him was Robert F. Kennedy Jr. To give you an idea. So I said, so when did you hit bottom? And he said, when I ran out of people to blame for my problems. And I thought, that is brilliant. Not only brilliant, that is applicable to everyone on Earth. Irrespective of addiction or not addiction.

Well, that's what Larry Elder's father says. And this is— I just feel like in my life there's something to learn from everyone. Everyone. A good example, a bad example, a random person's anecdote that they tell about their parent in life. I feel like I'm always on high alert. What can I learn? What can I learn? And Larry Elder said that his father would tell him that whenever something doesn't go your way, before you blame anybody else, the first thing you should do, even if you think it is staggeringly obvious that the catastrophe was another person's fault, you ask yourself what you could have done, if there was anything that you could have done to change the outcome. That's step 1 before you go to step 2, which is the blame game. I love that.

Because if I were a marital therapist, to, to show how much I agree with you, I will give an example where people are not happy to even hear it as an example. If I were a marital therapist, and by the way, I do believe I would be a really good one. I, I—

you kind of are one on the air.

That's right. No, that's the reason I know it, because so many people say, you know, Your Male-Female Hour has been my free marital therapy. But if a couple came in to me and one had been unfaithful, sexually unfaithful, so one, within, I don't know, 2 sessions maximum, maybe 3 maximum, I would ask the one who didn't stray, do you think that you were in any way responsible for your spouse's straying? Oh, this is not PC. It's of course not. I know, that's right, because everybody, everybody who anything bad happens in their life, they're a victim. You, you had no agency, to use one of their favorite words. Or there was— you played no role. See, if your spouse strays and you played no role, then you have a bad spouse. Okay, okay, that I'll acknowledge that. But I have never— everyone that I know, and I do know, I obviously— all I'll say is I know people who have strayed, who are otherwise truly good souls. And in every case, they didn't want to. They— okay, they weak. Am I making excuses? No, I'm not making excuses. But that question is not the whole question. A big part of the question is, if you're not married to an a-hole, and some people are, if you're not married to a schmuck, they didn't stray because they're awful. They strayed perhaps purely out of weakness. That is very, very possible. But nevertheless, did you play any role has to be a, a, a, a mature person's question. I doubt it'll happen, but if my wife strayed, I would— my first reaction would be, what did I do?

I doubt it will happen too.

Great. But I'm— but you do know me well enough to know that I am telling the truth. That would be my first reaction. 'Cause she's such a good person. What did I do that she needed to find somebody else? And as you said, it's not PC. You know why it's not PC? Because A, it's usually the man, and so the woman must be a victim. Do we think of men as victims if the woman strays? No, what we think of is, well, she probably strayed for a good reason. But if he strays, he's just— he's just a cad. This is how this is because we live in the world of the left. As I always say, forget the fact that it's so awful, morally awful. It's so intellectually shallow.

It really is.

That's what— that's what people— that's the great hidden secret of our time. It is universally intellectually shallow. There is no such thing as left left-wing depth. There was liberal depth, there was conservative depth, but there was no left-wing depth. These are shallow people, every single one of them. There is no exception. You can't be a leftist and be intellectually deep. You can have read 1,000 books, that doesn't make you deep, it just means you're well-read.

You know, I think a lot of my experience with Gina has it contributed to making me conservative? Because this whole victim virus is so pathetic. There are real victims, such as disabled people.

Oh, you hit your family, you're hit by a drunk driver, you're a victim. That's legitimate victim.

And it's just disgusting. It really, it really is. It's just totally disgusting. For people in America, the freest, most noble country on earth, to walk around fancying themselves as the victims of something. We're all victims of life. I mean, people of, you know, the average person, I'm not saying they haven't been through anything in their lives. Of course, we all have our crosses to bear, as I said earlier. But the fact that there are people who walk around, as a speaker at Harvard's commencement said, You know, America criminalizes poverty.

Really?

Yes. I played it on my show.

What does that even mean?

Harvard Law School students.

I don't understand. What does that mean?

I don't know either. I said, point me to the statute that throws people in prison for being poor.

No. Well, they obviously didn't mean it, but I don't know what they did mean. I don't know what they did. I don't know what it means.

Ridiculous. It's just this. It's just this. Oh, we're, you know, it's like the—

like the— what is it?

It's so self-aggrandizing.

The school-to-prison pipeline.

Yes.

Oh, I see. It's not— they didn't cause themselves to end up in prison. The country caused them to end up in prison.

It's so self-aggrandizing. And, you know, true— I said this on this show, and the person who made me realize this was Alexei Navalny. True victims actually can't view themselves as victims. They don't have the luxury of viewing themselves as victims. When I saw the video of Alexei Navalny about a week before he died, joking in Russia.

He was this incredibly courageous dissident in Russia.

Yes. Who recently was murdered.

Right.

He's joking a week before he died with the bought-off Kremlin guards who are keeping him in prison for daring to speak out against evil Putin. He's joking with them. And I thought, wow, if there's anybody in the world who could descend into the dregs of victimhood, It's Alexei Navalny. And yet he is— he doesn't have the luxury of viewing himself as a victim, even though he is, because then he would spiral into the dregs. His view that he was a victor and not a victim is what kept him going.

So is victimhood a lack of perspective? Is victimhood a lack of perspective?

Okay, Sean.

Correct. That is one of the good ways to make it full circle. Yes, no, that's exactly correct. In most cases. I mean, look, if you reckon— okay, let me just put it though. I mean, I always give the Charles Krauthammer example. Charles Krauthammer was one of the luminous minds for decades in the United States. For those listening outside of the United States and for those too young to remember Charles Krauthammer, Charles Krauthammer was truly universally— he was conservative, but he was recognized by liberals as a luminous mind. Read his books, watch any of his comments. I had him at a PragerU event shortly before he died. It was one of the great honors of my life. And Krauthammer, he was at Harvard Medical School when it was an achievement to be at Harvard. Hey, you were the last class. You might have been the last class.

But in all seriousness, it really is so sad. So my friends and I text, even my liberal friends, they're like, our degree, the worth of our degree is going down by— it's, come on.

Anyway, killed by Harvard. Harvard, like America, is committing suicide.

All these schools are. All these schools are.

That's correct.

Yeah.

So Where was I?

I'm sorry.

No, no, it's quite all right. It was a very important— it was— oh yes, no, no, no, wait.

John?

How did we get— okay, Victor. Oh yeah, Charles Krauthammer. So Krauthammer was at Harvard Medical School and he was a brilliant mind. He was gonna be a brilliant doctor. He's studying to be a psychiatrist and he was unbelievably handsome. He was on the swim team.

And he loved it.

I have no idea. And he dived one day into the pool, into a pool, did not know how shallow it was, cracked his vertebrae, paralyzed from the neck down as 20, 22 years old. Oh, did he have a right to see himself as a victim? You bet he did. And do you know what he decided from apparently within a day? I'm not going to live as if I'm a victim. Paralyzed as he was, he graduated with his class. He didn't miss a semester. He would lie in bed and have the textbooks projected onto the ceiling. That's how he would read them. And he graduated with his medical school class.

I have one for you.

I have, by the way, one more thing about Charles Krauthammer.

Go ahead.

So people watched him. He was, he, he was on Fox News for years and they would watch him because he could speak perfectly and did speak perfectly. The vast majority of people who watched him every day did not know he was paralyzed. Whoa. That is how much He did not want pity, to say the least, or saw himself as a victim. He married, he had a child, and I was with him and, you know, saw how incapacitated— I think by the end he was able to move one arm. I think that was the extent of his movement. But he flew cross-country, which is not easy. I mean, this is, you know, He can't walk to his seat from the wheelchair. I mean, you know, there's no such thing as— he can't. He can't use crutches. He can't have arms. So there are cases of such horror that no one could blame the person for thinking of themselves as a victim.

Of course.

Your family is— the whole family is killed by a drunk driver. Your wife, your children.

I mean, as happened with Joe Biden, by the way. I mean, he's—

yeah, you know, I have feelings about him, but he did go through that. Yeah, but right. No, no. Yeah. Oh yeah, that's right. I thought you're referring to his loss of two kids.

I was.

No. Yeah. No, no, no. But you were also referring to being killed by a drunk driver. They were not killed by a drunk driver. He lied All of his life he has lied about how his kid was killed and his then-wife. It was a lie.

What was it really?

I think she was responsible for some traffic violation, but it doesn't matter who was responsible. He wasn't drunk. Okay, but anyway, you are a victim. If you lose your wife and child, you're a victim. I mean, there's no question about it. And by the way, he did not walk around as a victim. I'm not, not implying that. And it's because truth is everything. Are you ready to lose weight but not sure where to start? So I'd like to tell you why I chose PhD Weight Loss and Nutrition. First, Dr. Ashley Lucas has her PhD in chronic disease and sports nutrition. The program is science-based. The PhD program starts with nutrition and and is much more. They know 90% of permanent change comes from the mind, and they work on eliminating reasons you gained weight in the first place. There are no shortcuts, no pills, no injections, just solid science, science-based nutrition and behavior change. If you're ready to lose weight for, I think, the last time, call 864-644-1900, 864-644-1900. To get started, or online at myphdweightloss.com. myphdweightloss.com. Just make the appointment for your one-on-one consultation. Call today, 864-644-1900. But you, you, it's all the best example, or not, there's no such thing as the best example. A really good example Do you know this? I think I've told you this woman who went in for a simple gallbladder operation and ended up with no arms and no legs because she got sepsis, internal infection, which people get in hospitals. It's not— it's a crapshoot going to a hospital, and I've been to one many times. I'm batting 1,000. I'm very lucky, unbelievably lucky. But she wasn't. She— and they said to her, you know, to save your life, we're going to have to amputate your arms and legs.

God.

And this woman, I've actually— I know it because I've contributed to her GoFundMe page.

See, you're— you're— you compliment me for being good.

Okay, all right. Well, I just sent $500 to one guy, the whistleblower at a— at a— I think I think it's Texas Children's Hospital.

Oh, for the trans surgery.

Oh, they claim that they weren't doing it and he reported GoFundMe actually can be a really good, good way to help.

People ask, how do we help Save America? That's—

yeah, well, this was not a GoFundMe. GoFundMe is political, though. I still donate, but they don't do it for causes that they don't approve. But it doesn't matter. I know of her because I get updates. The woman, all she does is say, you know what, I'm so lucky. The number of people who get sepsis and die is so great, and so I'm gonna have prosthetic, 4 prosthetic devices. I still have my husband, I still have my kids, I still have my mind, I still, I still, and she's a very pretty woman, she doesn't say, I still have my looks, and This is— that's the choice she made. She could easily lie in bed going, woe unto me.

But this confirms my theory that real victims, in order to triumph over their real victimhood, don't have the luxury of thinking of themselves as real victims.

Yeah, right.

Oh, gosh. I was going to say something. Bingo. I really hope I remember it.

Should I hum Mozart's 40th Symphony?

Oh, gosh.

What was it?

I should have remembered a word. This is giving people—

that's right, word.

I know.

Yes, that's the way to do it.

So frustrating.

Yeah, I know, it is the worst.

This is so frustrating. I really—

you know, it's funny, if, if this happens to me, they go, oh well, look, you're getting older, but she's 24. It happens to everybody.

I'm writing down the word.

Go ahead.

I got it.

Yes.

Okay.

So the word was shortstop, which is baseball. Yes.

Baseball is the one sport I grew up playing sports.

Yeah. Soccer, water polo, baseball, nothing.

But Tom Sowell, you know, apparently he is a baseball aficionado. Like, that guy knows everything about baseball.

I didn't know that.

Yeah.

Let me give you a test. How many infielders are there in baseball?

Okay. 3.

I don't know how many outfielders.

4.

Short, short, short is really a joke.

Asking me questions, it was just fun.

You got it inverted. It's 4. Wait, wait, wait. Yes, it was 4 infielders and 3 outfielders.

Okay, cool.

Whatever. What are the 4 infield positions?

Tweedledee, Tweedledum, and Tweedledum.

She doesn't know baseball. If you don't know that, that is—

what are the The people you reference, the Stooges.

The Three Stooges. Moe, Curly, and Larry.

Those are the positions of the three in Philadelphia.

Okay, fair enough. Go ahead. What did you write down? Yes.

Oh no, wait, hold on.

You said you wrote it down.

I know I did. Now I'm forgetting. Hold on.

Wait, she wrote it.

I got it. I got it.

Yeah. Okay.

You're like, just say it before you forget again. I think like you that it is disgusting that many Americans view themselves as victims of, you know, America or the patriarchy, etc., etc. But here's another thing that we truth lovers have to acknowledge, which is that— and Abigail Shrier really exposes this in her book that we mentioned, Bad Therapy— and I get it because I'm a member of Gen Z. The influences that are being pummeled at us in the classroom, in the media, in social media are so powerful that when you are told your whole life that you're a victim, you really do start to believe it. And so I look at these and I can't, you know, I don't know any of these Gaza solidarity people or the, the Guy at Harvard who said America criminalizes poverty are all of these examples of, of, you know, people in my generation talking about their alleged oppression. But it's not that I endorse what they're saying. Quite the opposite. But I sort of understand it really is the same level of brainwash as we know happens in UNRWA schools. I know people may think that's a dramatic comparison to draw.

The UN agency, the UN agency, Gaza.

That teaches Palestinian children that Jews are pigs and dogs and all this stuff. We are now at a place in America where there's a whole— multiple now— generations of people who have been taught from the time that they were little that they are victims. And this is the— this is the color that was put on their blank slate of life. And so, yes, we should criticize it as disgusting, but I actually weirdly sort of view them as the victims. And they have been—

yeah, they are victims.

They are, but they're victims of believing they're victims.

That's right. By the way, for the record, that's another chapter in my book on happiness. If you think you're a victim, you can't be happy. If you're ungrateful, you can't be happy. If you think you're a victim, even if you are a victim, if your primary view of yourself is as a victim, it's not possible to to be happy.

But do you take my greater point that— so Yuri Bezmenov, who is the KGB operative who defected to Canada and then exposed the Soviet Union's mechanisms of ideological subversion of the United States, he said one of the things that the Soviet Union endeavored to exact on the American population was uninformed myopia, or myopia. By the way, which one is it?

Myopia.

Myopia.

What does that mean?

Just like a sort of what we're seeing now. Uninformed.

Tunnel vision.

Tunnel vision. And so many in my generation, in the generation after me and before me, are victims. We should, we should be hard on them because I think once you get to a certain age, once you're old enough, you need to realize that that what you've been consuming is sludge. But we also have to acknowledge they are victims of a very large and staggeringly successful campaign to brainwash them.

Yeah. You wonder why it ever developed. That's the Is the human— is there a human desire to want to see oneself as a victim? It's so bizarre to me that leftist victimology would have caught on to the extent that it has. I'm Black, I'm a victim. I'm a female, I'm a victim. I'm a gay, I'm a victim. I'm a— just fill in anything but white male Christian and you're a victim. And it Why is that appealing? It's just a crappy way to go through life.

I'm about to kick this conversation up a notch. I think that in large part, not entirely, but in large part, this is the malignant outgrowth of a Christian culture.

Wow.

A, B, C, D.

Stay tuned for the next edition of the Dennis and Julie podcast.

Okay, but I can't just drop that bomb and then move on. I have to explain a little bit.

We're running out of time, but do so.

Oh great. And in 3 sentences, explain what I mean. There is no greater lover and defender of our Judeo-Christian culture than you, but maybe secondarily than me, than I. I love our Judeo-Christian culture, but every culture has its malignant outgrowth. Every family culture, every civilization, everyone. And I think that we have taken these Christian, uh, ideas and ideals of mercy and grace and love and suffering, and we have, as Spencer Klavan, my dear friend, not judging, and not judging, and we have, we have so taken them out of their proper context, we've taken them outside of their guardrails, that they've become as Spencer says, we have to— parodies of themselves.

We have to talk about this.

Spencer says they've become sick parodies of themselves. That's his words, not mine. I have to credit him because you taught me that when you cite a source, you bring righteousness to the world. Is that the Talmud, right?

Yes.

And so Spencer says they become sick parodies. That is an excellent way to put it. Mercy and grace and not judging people and suffering and redemption and the last shall be first, all of these great Christian things out of their proper context have been made into parodies of themselves. They've been made into, I am the victim of America and I'm the victim of a Band-Aid that is not my skin color.

So a final thought on that from me for now, because there's so much to be said. So, you know, and maybe many people listening/watching know, I would like PragerU to put up a series of billboards. I know something to the effect, just a reminder, God judges you. Have a nice day.

By the way, do you know what I call you, Allen and Marissa at PragerU? The Holy Trinity of Jewry.

Thank you. That's a beautiful, beautiful thought.

The three of you are a powerhouse.

I mean, well, that's true.

You guys are a powerhouse.

I agree with that. So, but isn't that an AC?

Yeah.

So, so here's my question. It would tick off half— it would tick off the whole left that, that, that they don't believe in God to begin with, or they're not, again, not liberals. But the, the idea— I wonder though, the reason I raised it was your Christian comment, and that is How many Christians would be annoyed? And I don't know, the answer may be almost zero. It may well be, 'cause the Christian message has been all of my lifetime, God loves you. Which is true, but it is not, I don't know how effective a message that is to produce good people. That's, put that down, that is a really—

Put that on your notes, please.

Yeah, no, no, no, very powerful question.

What do you want me to write?

Will we get better human beings from the message God judges you or the message God loves you? Which will produce more kindness?

Judges.

Okay, I agree. Obviously, it's the reason I'm asking it. But I— that's a good example of where a beautiful Christian notion— I mean, it actually— they, like most Christian notions, are taken from the Hebrew Bible, which Not to negate the power of Christianity in spreading them.

No, I mean, Joe, but they argue that's what the prophecy of Jonah— I mean, of course. Well, that Jonah, but yeah, well, Jonah and the whale, the 3 days in the whale, that many Christians substantiate your point that a lot of Christianity is rooted in the Hebrew Bible because it's the fulfillment of the prophecy.

What does Jonah and the whale fulfill?

The Christ, 3 days of—

Oh, really? I did not know that. Christians believe that that was foreshadowing. I did not realize that. Okay, great. So look, it's the whole thing. Loving God comes from the Hebrew Bible. I mean, right? I mean, that's Deuteronomy. You can love God with all your heart, with all your souls, comes from the Torah. But anyway, what will really be dramatic, but you know, I'll just keep people on tenterhooks here.

Boy, if we opened up a convo.

Yes, because I want to deal with the issue of God's love. Anyway, it'll be fascinating. Let's close by reminding people perspective is everything. Whatever you have in your life, everyone has a struggle. And even an unfair, whatever that means, struggle. But perspective is can really help you tremendously.

I'll add just a final thing that really helps me. You're right, suffering is a feature of life, not a bug. Everyone suffers.

Not a bug. That's great.

Everyone suffers. Here's another thing that I really believe, and I— and the story of Christianity, it proves it. If you are doing something noble in your life, it is a guarantee that you're going to suffer. It's a guarantee that people are not going to like you. It's a guarantee that you're going to have pushback. I think sometimes, and I found this in this industry, so I would film an episode where I felt like I was really out swinging for truth, beauty, and goodness, and then I would see people commenting horrible things. I'd go, why is that? Well, people think, why do I get bad stuff when I'm doing good stuff? Will you get bad stuff because you're doing good stuff? Does that make sense? If you are doing something noble, people are always going to oppose you. Look at Christ. Look at the story of Christ.

I mean, that's right.

Good and evil exist.

All right, that's another subject.

If you're doing good, evil is going to be your antidote. Yes, evil is going to come for you.

This episode made me so hungry for a bowl of cherries. Did you hear that line?

I did. I had the speakers on.

This, this episode made him hungry for a bowl of cherries.

I love cherries.

I thought you were going to say—

They're so expensive though.

Do you love— who do you love more, cherries or Sean?

Sorry, Sean.

Good one. Good one.

You can reach me at julie@julie-hargreaves.com. Dennisprager.com. I love hearing from you. Dennis knows just how much I forward things.

Yes, and I love hearing from Julie with what you send.

So true. And you can follow me on Instagram and Twitter @JulieRHartman. You can follow Dennis on Instagram @TheDennisPrager. I know he's tuning out. And on Twitter—

Yes.

—which is Twitter @DennisPrager. Yes. And you can go to dennisprager.com. Right. Or prageru.com.

Right.

Or something else. Julie-hartman.com.

Right. Cool. And we'll see you next week. Bye. Here's something most people don't know. When Warren Buffett was just 13 years old, he didn't put his money into a savings account. While other kids were earning next to nothing at local banks, Buffett put $114 into a little-known investment. Today, that $114 would be worth over $15 million. And it wasn't a risky trade, it wasn't even insider knowledge. It was an account that's been around since 1888, and over the last 25 years, it's averaged 29% a year. That's what happens when your money is allowed to compound. Compare that to today's savings accounts, paying less than half a percent while inflation quietly eats away at your buying power. Buffett understood early: banks are great businesses, just not for savers. If you'd like to see what some investors call the 29% account, go now to secretaccount29.com. That's secret account, the numbers, 29, dot com. secretaccount29.com.