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Your dog and a stranger are drowning. You can only save one. Who do you choose? Dennis Prager says your answer reveals everything about how you define right and wrong. In his new book, If There Is No God, Prager exposes the danger of emotion-based morality and why without objective truth, society descends into chaos. This isn't a religious book. It's a rational case for moral clarity in a confused age. If There Is No God from Dennis Prager. Order now at PragerStore.com. Hey everybody, Dennis Prager and Julie Hartman. Dennis and Julie. Is it— I'm debating. I hate debating in public. You know, you should be—

except when it's with—

except what?

When it's with Cenk.

No, no, no, debating with myself. Yeah, no, no, I— that's, that's a good point. Yeah, that's fair.

I do hate that.

I— well, that's another issue. But I, I was debating whether to say how much I get into a good mood, and I'm always in a good mood, basically, as you know, when that music comes on and I know we're going to do this. And that's— is that nice?

Very.

Okay, now last week, did we do it a remote? It was a remote, the last one. The— was the last one to go up remote?

No, the one before it.

The one before?

Yes, the one before. Yeah, Sean is shaking his head.

I, I watched it. I watched it. And it worked.

It did work. And that was a great episode. We were talking about if thoughts can be sinful.

Yes.

Which I think is particularly helpful to people.

Very. Yes. So I said to Julie not 3 minutes ago, Jules, I have no topic.

I do.

And Jules said, I do.

And it's a good one.

And I can't wait for Jules to say I do.

Jules can also— oh, also not wait for Jules to say I do.

Okay.

Uh, but when it's right, of course. So this topic, yeah, my gosh, all of it, the, the premise of it and then where my thoughts went, I think are going to be of interest. So I am studying right now for the LSAT when I am not working, and I am participating. The LSAT is the entrance exam for law school. and I am a part of a group Zoom class, and that's what people typically do. They do online group classes, and then if they want to get outside tutoring, which is more expensive, you can get outside tutoring. I don't have time, so I'm just doing the group class. And at the beginning of the class, the guy who runs it, who's been teaching the LSAT for 20 years, said, I want to tell you all this. I am not saying it as a moral endorsement, nor am I saying it as a, what's the opposite of endorsement?

A condemnation.

Yes, exactly, a moral condemnation. But if you apply for accommodations, in other words, if you have a doctor's note saying that you need 2 to 3 times extra time, you will get it. And he said because of recent litigation, these LSAT or these standardized test companies have to be very ADA— that's Americans with Disabilities Act— compliant, that they essentially approve any requests for accommodations. And so accommodations don't just include extra time, but that is crazy. I mean, the advantage that you get from getting double or 3 times extra time cannot be overstated. I mean, I— when I'm doing untimed practice tests, I do very well. When I'm doing timed practice tests, I don't do as well because the whole point of the damn test is to be able to perform under a time constraint. That's part of what makes it difficult.

I am curious, did you ever watch a chess game? No. Okay. So in— I don't know if in all, but in most chess competitions, Or in many, I don't know, in many there is a time factor. You are allowed X amount of time either between moves or in totality. I don't know how it works. So the moment you, you move, you press, the moment it is your turn to move, the other guy's moved his pieces or her pieces, you press this, the button, and the moment you move, you press it again. So I'm curious. In a chess competition, do you get twice as much time to move your chess pieces?

I don't know, probably not.

No, no, probably yes. Oh, I mean, no, given the ADA rules, I'm just thinking, but it would render— yeah, I agree with you, probably not, because it would render the chess game idiotic. Why doesn't it render all exams idiotic?

Well, how about when a guy, a football player, is kicking a field goal and then people are rushing him as he's kicking the field goal? What if we put the guys twice the length?

So this is—

so the guy would have more time, right?

Why doesn't the ADA rule for those with mental, in this case, or physical disabilities apply to sports?

And the answer is it's the only arena of life I know that's not infected by DEI.

Well, that's not infected, period.

Right.

It's only merit. Only. Nobody makes a team because of color, race, background, financial ability, sexual stimulation, sexual identity, nothing. Do you run well? Do you catch well? Do you pass well? Do you kick well? Yes.

And here's, here's the thing that's even more angering. So you can get 2 to 3 times extra time on this test with a doctor's note.

But everybody can get a doctor's note. That's the other farce.

And also what this guy said is that you don't have to actually have— it used to be that you feigned a disability. You have severe processing issues or something like that. Now, he said, you don't even have to feign a disability. You just get a doctor's note saying that my patient needs this. You can say—

wait, because the tutor said this?

Yes. He said you can just say anxiety. I mean, who doesn't have test anxiety?

Yeah, right. Well, it's the same, to be honest. The same with the abortion issue. It's not just mother's health, it's her emotional health. So therefore there's no time when it would not be allowed.

Right. Well, so, so that it's the extra time issue. It's the fact that you really don't need to even lie about having some kind of legitimate issue. You can say something like test anxiety, or as one person I know who got it, sweaty palm syndrome. Oh, listen, you have excessive— I am excessively sweaty.

I thought that you would demand that people with sweaty palms not be allowed more time to take their exam. That it's clear you're a selfish Republican.

The irony, Dennis, is that for my whole life, it's actually been kind of embarrassing for me. I have very sweaty palms. And so when I meet someone—

how rarely I've shaken your hand, they don't—

they think that I'm nervous. And one time— this is funny— one time I was meeting someone who's a very prominent public figure for a private meeting. And I went and I shook his hand and he said, oh, I mean, it was so obvious that my hand was sweaty. He said, oh, don't be nervous. And I said, oh, trust me, I'm not.

Oh God, you didn't know why he said it?

No, I did know, but I just thought my answer, oh, trust me, I'm not, was funny. But anyway, so here's another thing that drives me cuckoo.

So in addition to the extra time, hold on, before that, I wanna, I wanna develop another example. Sure. I want to offer another example. I do everything possible not to fly Southwest Airlines, and I fly so much, as you know. I have a million miles on United, a million miles on American, and I almost have a million on Delta. That's how much I fly. But I try to avoid Southwest. I'm 6'4", so I need, I need extra room, period. End of issue. And so I purchased their business premium, whatever the title is, at like almost double the price in order to board early to get one of the only seats with extra legroom. But they're almost always taken because people with a, quote, disability get on first. And since it's open seating, they take the only good seats on the plane. But here is the joke. And it's— obviously my heart goes out to anybody who needs to get on a plane in a wheelchair. I would say 80% of the people who board early because of disability walk onto the plane.

I know, I see it too.

I, I'm thinking, right, I'm sorry, but I'm thinking what you're thinking. Of course they may have a disability, but why does it impact their ability to board. It doesn't.

It doesn't. And, you know, another thing is service animals on airplanes that—

well, I love dogs.

Well, some of us are terribly allergic.

Well, no, no, you're right.

I know I'm quite— I can't ever pet your dogs because I'm allergic.

How did people fly prior to service animals boarding with them? This is before your time. There was no such thing when I was your age. It didn't exist.

I know we live in this world of you— everybody deserves an accommodation, everyone's entitled to whatever they want.

This is the feminization of politics because females think in terms of compassion. Men think in terms of rules. But rules create more compassion than compassion does. A medical test can reveal your body's biological age, which can show if you're aging prematurely. Better nutrition has been shown to reverse one's bio-age. My hope in this regard of living a longer and healthier life is why I take Field of Greens. Yes, I take it. I would never endorse it if I didn't. Field of Greens is an organic superfood fruit and vegetable drink unlike any other. Field of Greens was approved through a university study that doctors believe may lower your body's biological age. That means better health. Each ingredient in Field of Greens was doctor-selected to support vital bodily functions like heart, liver, kidneys, metabolism, and immune system. And only Field of Greens promises at your next checkup, your doctor will notice your improved health or your money back. That's quite remarkable. Join me in better health with 15% off and free shipping. Visit fieldofgreens.com and use the promo code Dennis. That's code Dennis at fieldofgreens.com. Fieldofgreens.com. And ironically, compassion creates more rules than rules do.

Well, that's what Machiavelli says. Machiavelli says that in order to achieve a virtue, you need to balance it sometimes with the opposing virtue. So if you want to achieve benevolence, you actually in some cases have to curb your benevolence because if you're too benevolent, to your point, then you're actually undermining the very thing that you're claiming to achieve. It's the same thing with extra time. I have an older sister, as you know, with very severe autism. I am very sympathetic to those who struggle with disabilities. I see it, uh, on a hugely severe scale every day of my life. But what is so angering is that people, it, In this supposed effort to be ADA compliant, to be overly accommodating of people who have disabilities, you allow people to fake disabilities and get ahead on the coasting on the privileges.

Right, well, I would go further. I don't care, I mean, I care if you have a disability on the human level, but vis-à-vis taking an exam, why would I allow people with disabilities extra time to take an exam? Do they have extra time when they become lawyers? They don't. So what, what does it mean if I have a lawyer with a disability? He's gonna charge me more because it took so much more time. If he charges by the hour, he'll make a fortune, right? Think about it.

No, I know. And, and here's what's a really hard thing to contend with, but it's just the truth. If you have a severe mental disability, you may not be able to be a lawyer.

Well, that's right.

I mean, I'm sorry. It's a horrible thing.

No, no, no. Say, okay, but it's not a horrible thing.

I can't—

the odds are I couldn't pass the LSAT. Okay. Just for the record. And I'm a bright guy. But I—

your brain doesn't think that way.

That's right. And I've never been a particularly good test taker because I analyze the question. I remember when I took College Board and, you know, we would read an essay and then answer questions on what we read. I can't tell you how often I thought the question was not clear.

Yes, it's—

that's all there are, really. There's an ambiguity in the text.

Well, the whole point is that the passage isn't clear.

I mean, they're trying to trip you up, right? But you have to give one right answer.

You trust— trust me, I know.

I want you to write sentences on why the question was illegitimate. But anyway, you're— that's the point. If you need extra time for the LSAT, why will you be a competent lawyer?

Exactly. Well, here's another thing. In addition to the extra time, you can also, if you get a note, have 25% of the test removed.

Yeah, what does that mean?

There are 4 sections on the LSAT. One of them is an experimental section, which means that it's not scored. You, when you are taking the test, you don't know which one isn't scored, so you just take all 4 of them like they're scored, and then the LSAT randomly picks one and doesn't score it and uses it for its own experimental purposes. If you get a doctor's note saying My patient has, you know, processing issues or test anxiety. She can't focus for more than an hour and a half. She needs the experimental section removed. It means that you will take the LSAT with only 3 sections. So you get 25% of the test. So, so, and this is what the guy who's in charge of the course said. He said, I'm not endorsing it. I'm not condemning it. I'm just telling you the truth. When I started teaching this course 20 years ago, if I had 100 students in the class, maybe 2 of them would get accommodations. Now when I teach the course, well over 50 of 100 get accommodations.

Really?

Yes. And he said, if you get a doctor's note saying, uh, I have processing issue, or my patient is processing issues, she needs 3 times extra time and she needs the experimental section removed, you will get 3 times extra time and you will have the experimental section removed. And here's the kicker, we haven't even gotten to the to the best part yet, Dennis. Law schools don't know. They don't find out if students do this because it's a HIPAA violation to lie that you, to lie that you have a disability. And this is the case in college admissions too. I remember when I was in high school, in 9th grade, we all had to take the PSAT, the practice SAT, and some of the other, you know, our midterms or final exams in the gym because it's this huge complex to accommodate a lot of students. Then in 10th grade, I noticed there were fewer kids in the gym and more kids in the classrooms. That's where they put the extra time students. And then in 11th grade, there were a lot fewer kids in the gym.

And then in 12th grade, there was nobody in the gym.

In 12th grade, they moved us to the library. There was no, there was no point in putting us in the gym.

That's great.

And so those of us who were like, we're such chumps because we—

right.

So, so now it brings me to what I thought when I heard this. Of course, I've been aware of this because I saw it in high school. And by the way, here's what really frosts my cookies, which we've debated on Dennis and Julie, if it's a Julieism or if it's a real-life saying. I've had some listeners write in that they've heard the term frost my cookies. Yep, just saying.

I never heard of it.

All right, we've— we know Sean's shaking his head. Here's what really Ticks me off. I went to a private all-girls high school. I would see so many of these girls during the BLM summer when we all have had to do Maoist self-criticism sessions for our white privilege. I would see so many of them posting the black square and talking about privilege and all the disparities in the country. They were affluent girls whose parents at the— a few years ago you had to pay to get the doctor's note. Now it's equity is everywhere. Now if you just ask for it, you get it. But these girls would have their parents pay the doctors to get extra time when they had no disability. And then they were waxing eloquent about, oh, we have to recognize our privilege. And, you know, America is such a horrible society. You, by your actions, are perpetuating that kind of society that you claim to lament.

Wait, how are they perpetuating?

By getting the extra time. When that's— how is that fair to minority students? Or low-income students whose parents can't pay a doctor $10,000 to say they have a fake disability. And then these girls had the audacity—

You say you can get it for free now?

Now you can. Now it's much more.

But, but back in, back in my day in high school, I don't understand why it's allowed at all. It, it, there should be no such accommodation.

I know, but we live— this is— we—

and it's unfair to the rest of you. How do you— by the way, tell me about it.

It's completely unfair.

Let us say that you you don't have any discernible disability, but you're just not adept at testing.

That's me. You're looking at that person. I'm not adept at testing.

Right. Okay. So, so you're at a disadvantage.

I know.

Everybody— the rules. Again, I keep coming back. If it's fair for the LSAT, it has to be fair in sports.

It's, you know, when we focus on the infection of DEI in our society, we focus very much on sort of obvious or affirmative ways that that is implemented, like the making curricula woke. But this is one of the ways that is more clandestine that we don't talk about, where it's sort of done indirectly. Like you throw your hands in the air and you just allow anybody to get extra time if they have any remote kind of claim to have it, because you can't ever speculate that someone has a disability if it's their truth that they do, or if they— you can't deny someone's lived experience.

All the feminization. This is all of this.

And so let me tell you, so I bear your pain. Well, it's just, it's, it's outrage, really. It's just outrage and it's disgust. And, and by the way, I don't blame the law schools. The law schools are held hostage by this litigation. I'm sure a lot of them, they would love to know which students.

I want to wait. So just forgive me. I want to understand the litigation.

Yeah.

No, I want to understand the law. Is there a law that in all exams in our state, the state that has passed these laws— first of all, is it federal or state?

I don't know. I think ADA is a federal law, right?

ADA is, yes. But I don't know. Is this a ramification of the law? I want to understand how it has been applied to exams. I've always— I originally understood it as we will have to build ramps, not just have staircases.

No, no, this— I mean, that, that is true. But now it's extended to, to test-taking. It's not just physical facilities.

So has that been tested in courts? It's actually— that is the law of the land.

My understanding, and Sean can look this up, is that that students got together and said that those individuals who have processing disabilities or learning disabilities are put at a disadvantage by being subjected to the same standards as other students who take the test.

Right, but I am put at a disadvantage in a race because I don't, I don't run fast. I don't understand what, what the difference is. Why don't they give me a 40-yard advantage if I would race 100 yards?

Here's what they really should do. If you take the LSAT and you have a learning disability, take it in the same way that everyone takes it and then provide a doctor's note with your application about your history of your disability. And so perhaps—

And let the law school decide. Doesn't matter or not.

Just as—

Okay, that's fine.

Just as a kid who, you know, has to commute 3 hours to get to school on a public bus.

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You know, includes in his or her application that may affect how I performed in school or my time to do homework.

By the way, I want to— you see, there's another thing here. It shows contempt for the legal profession because Bingo. Bingo.

Bingo.

Yes, because they would never allow it for airplane pilots. Well, they would. They would.

Well, now, now.

No, no, no. Well, no, now they are on race and gender.

Right.

But, but that's catastrophe. But they don't allow an exam. You know, fly this plane. We're giving you an exam. Oh, you have a disability. Well, we don't expect you to land the plane well.

Well, actually, they do that for medical school. I'm not so sure about, about airplane school, but Heather MacDonald has done amazing exposés on this, including in the City Journal, where the, the Step 1, I think it's called, exam, which is part of what you have to pass in medical school, was changed from requiring an 80% to pass to just pass/fail. They've, they've lowered this. So they actually are doing that in, in some professions. But I think your point is very astute that it demonstrates contempt for the legal system of law because you are literally subverting the system of law. And so here's what's so—

so I know what you're— you're right about the subversion, but I'll be more specific. You are saying competence is not necessary, right?

Well, okay, so here's what's so, so interesting. So I'm in this Zoom, this guy is saying this, and then all these students are writing in. Saying, do you have to report this when you take the bar?

You have to report what?

That you got extra time on the LSA.

Oh, you don't. You said you don't know.

You said that. But it shows their thinking because when you go to pass the bar, you also have to do an ethics examination where basically you have to report if you've ever faced disciplinary action, if you've ever broken the law. And these students are writing in, do I have to report this to when I, when I take the bar? And that's showing, by the way, do they allow more time for bar exams? I'm not sure. Probably. But that's showing that you think that it's sleazy.

If you're asking the question, would I have to report it in an ethics exam? Well, it is sleazy.

You know, it's sleazy.

You know what it's part of? It's also, people must understand when you, when they were, is compassion in the macro, you end up with cruelty in the micro. You can't govern by compassion. You can treat human beings, and should, with compassion, but the rules must be compassion-free. So that, this is an example, oh, I will allow you more time. Then they have an advantage over the person who doesn't claim a disability.

Oh, who's doing it the right way?

Yes. The same held true. The, the utter contempt for Americans who have paid their school loans, their, their tuition debt.

We, we have Americans who immigrate here legally.

Yes. Yes. Let me do this one though. This is so important. This is a big F you to every American who paid off his or her student loan, to every family that paid that off. You're a— what the Democratic Party has said to them is you're a sucker. Anyone who followed the rules and paid back a loan is a sucker because we're going to eventually pass legislation that no one has to pay off their loan.

I was talking with someone who immigrated here legally and he said, I don't know why I did that. I have to pay taxes now. There are all these things I have to do that, that I wouldn't have had to do if I had just waited 2 years and then crossed the southern border illegally.

That's right.

And so this is, this is a big thing that I, I really believe and hope is going to come to a head. But let me tell you, so I mentioned when I was in the Zoom, there were a lot of people asking about the bar and if they would have to report it, which again demonstrates that they know that this is sleazy, which is doesn't portend well for for the future lawyers in the country. Here's another thing. I wanna tell you what I was thinking. I was listening to that and anybody who says that the temptation didn't cross their mind, I'm sorry, is lying. Of course, maybe very, very pure people did not have that temptation cross my mind, but the temptation crossed my mind. 'Cause I thought, okay, wait a minute. I have a full-time job which requires a ton of reading. I mean, I have to read like 2 books a week essentially, you know, and, and, you know, obviously people are studying for the LSATs with full-time jobs. So I'm going, I have a very busy schedule. I, you know, don't have a lot of time to master this test.

I'm not a good test taker.

I am definitely not a good test taker. I had to take the SAT 3 times, 3 times, and my, my third score was amazing, but my first score was not. I had to really work at it. And everyone else is doing it. Every— everyone else is. So it's, it's actually not that—

well, that's— that was my sucker.

Bad, because everybody else is doing what I'm doing. So actually, it makes— by doing this bad thing, I would ironically be making the playing field equal for myself. So that was what crossed my mind. And then despite the initial temptation, which was only a fleeting thing, I just went no. That's not who I am.

And I think— No, no, I agree with you. That's the same thing I feel. I'm not a young guy. I could easily get a note. And, you know, I don't walk fast. The only— literally the only thing in my life that tells me I'm getting older because not energy, not any, not happiness, nothing. But I walk slower than I used to. Okay, big deal. Does it affect the quality of my life? But I could get a doctor's note in a nanosecond. Of course I could. I have a— I have a— what do you call it— a replacement, a hip replacement. I could easily do the thing for Southwest Airlines. Oh, Mr. Prager needs extra time to board the plane, right? But of course I do. But I'm like you, and I'm saying I would never do that. No, first of all, I spend every time I board a plane and there's somebody in a wheelchair, I say a little prayer. Thank you, God, I'm so healthy, and I am then gonna feign illness. But people do. But people—

and they do with, with no kind of guilt.

So, well, you know what I think of the conscience? It's, it's, it's weaker than silly putty. So that's, that's, that's a given. I really would like, just like I would like every female teen and every female athlete not to compete if there is a male who says he's a female on the other team or competing one-on-one. I would like every person who takes the LSAT to get a, a post, a delay of game note from their doctor.

What do you mean a delay of whatever you want?

I get extra time, an extra time note. If everybody who took the LSAT got an extra time note, out. That would end it. There is no other way of ending this nonsense.

It's— it is. So, so I want to—

by the way, you're— I'm sorry, you, you and I have too much dignity.

That's the word.

I know, I know it's the word, and I know how similar we are, so we wouldn't do it. But the truth is, if the word went out, if I and I were taking an LSAT Let's all claim a disability so as to end the inherent unfairness of this thing. I would do that.

But here, here's the thing. That's like the, the universities don't know. They, they never find out.

Well, I wonder, do they even care?

I hope so. I certainly hope so.

I hope that they don't. I don't know. I don't know the answer.

I hope that they don't take the LSAT as seriously as they would, because if They must be aware that they must hear through the grapevine, as I heard on this group.

What percentage do you know? You know, there would be no way to know, right? What percentage of the kids?

I don't think they— they don't— they don't expose that data because it would show how insanely skewed it is.

But then you take the LSAT in a room with other people.

No. So this is what's interesting. You take it now online, and that's an No, that's another accommodation. You can get a pencil and paper accommodation, and I'm not even doing that.

Use the internet if you're online?

No, they, I, they have some, they like have some software, they, they're able to look at your screen, and then I think that you have to like put a mirror behind you to show that you're not on. Yeah, it's, I, I mean, I'm, I'm doing it the straight way. I get, I have no extra time, I have no section removed, I have no pencil paper accommodations. I'm doing it the, me and probably one other They're doing it the normal way. But by the way, even the pencil and paper accommodation, I would love to have a pencil and paper and take the LSAT. You take it on a hard copy instead of online. You know how much easier it is to read and mark things up and on paper than it is to read online?

Why do they do it online? It's so much easier to grade.

Yeah, I think it's easier to score. But okay, so I wanna tell you what I was monitoring my thought process. And I— it was sort of like the 7 stages of grief. It was the 5, the stages of temptation and then overcoming the temptation. So of course, there was the initial temptation. There was the reasoning for it, which actually I think is, is strangely valid, that if you get this thing that everyone else is getting, you're actually leveling the playing field. Of course, I'm, I'm not going to do that.

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But here are my main reasons for not doing it. Number one, I really believe that you— I am the beneficiary of a meritocratic society. I am now living in a society where that is dwindling and that is being lost. But I need to do my part to uphold a meritocratic society.

I am coasting. What's the next reason?

I'm coasting on the wave.

Yes, that's beautiful. I love that. What's the next one?

The next one is— you'll love this.

And I love— I love number 1.

Well, it's true. And just as another note on number 1, this is what I would— this is what I lament about many, especially in my generation, that we are living off of the dregs and fumes of Judeo-Christian values, right? The American system. And we're not doing anything to Carry the baton forward. We have to carry the baton forward. That's number one. Number two, I love being the real deal. I am the real deal. I have never gotten— I've had many advantages in my life. I've been very lucky to, you know, go to college without any debt. I've been lucky to have the kinds of opportunities that I've had. I've been very lucky. Just the fact you responded to my letter, for instance. I've worked hard, but I've also been privileged. That was to uphold a meritocratic society. I am coasting. What's the next reason? I'm coasting on the waves.

Yes. That's beautiful. I love that. What's the next one? The next one is. You'll love this. And I love. I love number one. what I Lament about many, especially in my generation, that we are living off of the dregs and fumes of Judeo Christian values, the You, you will, you'll love this, but I don't know if you want to go there because if you still have more on this, we can go there. Okay, so I, before you were born, well before the self-esteem movement was created, I think it was in the 1970s in California, naturally.

Yeah, shocking.

I even remember who did it. For some reason, I can't forget his name. He was a California state senator. He has since passed away. John Vasconcellos. This is— this will fascinate you because most people don't know the origins of the self-esteem movement. It started in California. The state of California gave a certain amount of money to explore the, the self-esteem roots of crime, which sounds great, but it was of course, as soon as it happened, I knew it was stupid. What they really were saying is poverty causes crime, racism causes crime, and now they were adding a third one, low self-esteem causes crime. By the way, poverty is a lie, racism is a lie, not that poverty doesn't exist, it's a lie that it causes crime, and low self-esteem. Roy Baumeister, one of the greatest criminologists in American life, professor of criminology, psychologist. He spent his life with criminals. I mean murderers, right? He said to me on my show, Dennis, the people with the highest self-esteem I have ever counseled, interacted with, yes, are murderers. So Related. Yes. So, so related is, uh, the high— well, not related, it's the high self-esteem. So you and I have high self-esteem. It's, it's obvious from what you said, but there's a very big difference. Our self-esteem is morally rooted. I, I like Dennis when he does good. I don't like Dennis when he doesn't do good.

I would feel so hollow.

That's the point.

I would feel like a cheat. I would feel like I'm a cheater.

So your self-esteem would go lower if you cheated to get a disability note.

Yes.

That's the— but vast numbers of people, it would not work that way. If I can get a doctor's note to get on Southwest faster, to have more time taking an LSAT, then damn it, I'm going to get that note. And their self-esteem does not sink.

Yes, yes, it's an excellent point.

Oh, it's, it's everything. If self-esteem is rooted in the moral— in other words, I have to earn my own self-esteem. You know, earn is one of my two favorite verbs. So I have to earn That's how I feel. By the way, I believe I have to earn God's esteem.

Well, that's another thing that I thought of. What would God think of me?

That's beautiful.

Really, it is. He would know.

I mean, that, that's, that's when I left. You know my story, right? I think— I hope you don't, but I think you do. About a year ago, I was in Minneapolis and I had a rental car and I scratched the car next to me.

Yes, I remember this. And I left a note. Yes, I've done the same thing.

And I admit that half of the reason was the way I view myself. I couldn't live with myself if I didn't leave the note.

I would feel very guilty, independent of God, religion, and ethics.

I admit it.

Well, one time I scratched a car and I started— it was, it was not that bad. And I started saying to myself, it's not that bad.

That's right. Well, I had to say, started to drive away. Nobody know— nobody knows it. They're insured anyway.

Oh, they're not even going to notice.

This is why I said the conscience is silly putty. Yeah, nothing.

It's true.

The conscience doesn't shape us. We shape our conscience.

Yes, that should be written down.

Yeah.

I hate the passive voice. Write that down, please. That should be written down.

Oh, I love that.

I hate when people use the crimes were committed, things were said. It's like, by whom?

I hate the passive voice.

That's a great line. That's a really great line because When I scratched the car, the back of the car, I drove away and I got maybe 5 feet away and I just, I knew I had to back up and leave the note.

I love that. Yeah, I love your story because you started leaving.

Well, I was like, it's not that bad, it's not that bad. And I did, I started leaving.

Here's a related thought for you, and I told you this, but I don't think I've ever said this on the air. So at a very early age, younger than you, I was, I was thinking about the great issue starting high school. And I remember one day saying to myself, my issue will never be doing the right thing or not. My issue, if there is any, will be knowing what is the right thing.

So what's a situation where you perhaps didn't know what the—

Oh, I— oh, well, I could give it to you on a macro level. I acknowledge that the hardest macro issue has been the gay issue. I mean, I have very strong, resolved views on this.

But gay marriage, you mean?

No, gay marriage. Just, just the— how do I approach— I do believe that the— I strongly believe that the ideal is heterosexual. And so what do I— what do I do with the, with the law in my holy book, the Torah, that that condemns male homosexuality? What do I do with that? That's why I wrote a 20,000-word essay on one verse, because it was— it— I had so many conflicting realizations. See, I never bought the line that many religious people said. It's, it, it's a lifestyle choice, homosexuality. It is for some, and it certainly is for many women. Male homosexuality is not the same as female homosexuality. Ask gay men. They'll be the first to know it.

Well, it's true. It's just true.

Because a woman can be attracted to a man. She may prefer women, but she can be. A true homosexual male is not attracted to women. What am I going to do about him, so to speak? So anyway, I don't— I have resolved it, but you asked me to give an example of a difficult issue. When do it— when is it the right thing? Well, it was certainly when I divorced. That was a huge one because I felt such a commitment to my child and my children and the Uh, so most of the time I could figure out. And so that certainly was the case, unlike you. And it's not because I'm better, I'm just noting what happened. I didn't drive away. I, I, I, I, I did go through your rationales. Oh, I had a whole—

How bad was the scratch?

I think I took a picture of it. It's— a medical test can reveal your body's biological age, which can show if you're aging prematurely. Better nutrition has been shown to reverse one's bio-age. My hope in this regard of living a longer and healthier life is why I take Field of Greens. Yes, I take it. I would never endorse it if I didn't. Field of Greens is an organic superfood fruit and vegetable drink unlike any other. Field of Greens was approved through a university study that doctors believe may lower your body's biological age. That means better health. Each ingredient in Field of Greens was doctor-selected to support vital bodily functions like heart, liver, kidneys, metabolism, and immune system. And only Field of Greens promises at your next checkup, your doctor will notice your improved health or your money back. That's quite remarkable. Join me in better health with 15% off and free shipping. Visit fieldofgreens.com and use the promo code Dennis. That's code Dennis at fieldofgreens.com. Fieldofgreens.com.

By the way, benign scratches can cost thousands of dollars.

That's the point. I knew that's the problem. And it was also a slight indentation. Okay, but you would, you would have to— it turned out to be a woman. There is no doubt that when she went to her car, she didn't see it.

By the way, you know what's funny? That situation, I was 20 years old when, when that happened. I drove literally 5 feet. I don't even think I fully passed the car. And then I backed up and went, Julie, you got it. You got to leave a note. And I left a note and I got a call from this woman and she was kind of, you know, surly, whatever. She was not, not that nice on the phone. I get it. She was a little ticked off about her car and she sent me her insurance card and she is one of my favorite actresses. I scratched one of my favorite actresses' cars.

Well, you lucked out.

I know, so I'm kind of glad I scratched the car. I'm kind of glad.

That's hilarious.

And I got her, and I'm like, oh my gosh, that is really funny. I'm not going to say who it is, but I went, oh my gosh, right? And then I talked with her on the phone. She was a little rude, but who cares? It's a, it's a great story. But, but with this LSAT thing I, you know, there was someone I've mentioned him on the show before in college. And I have to say that this, this guy was totally in the minority. As you know, because you've met many of them. I had the most wonderful friends and many wonderful peers in college. But this one guy was in my class and he was such a cheater. He was like an 8th generation Harvard legacy. And he walked around with the pomposity of a prince. You know, like he was the, you know, the best thing to ever happen to the world. And he would openly brag about cheating. He wouldn't just cheat. He would tout how well he cheated. And he kind of built up this self-image of like, you all are suckers. I'm the one who's, who's getting by. He would brag about how he would have an economics exam and then he'd have his doctor from home call in a prescription.

That's really, that's the classic.

So that he could get it taken in his dorm room and then he could look at the answers and didn't have to go.

It's obviously on a staggeringly less evil level, but that's what Hamas did. They bragged about what they did. Yeah, he made it.

He made it an identity trait. He made it like, you all, I play the game better than you.

It's amazing because I had a relative. He has long since passed away. He married into the family. And that's all I'll say because I don't want to identify him or the person in my family who married him. I'll never forget, I was over at his apartment for a dinner. And he so bragged, this was the days when you had to declare what you brought into the country if you came back.

You still have to do it.

I thought it stopped.

You do.

Okay, anyway. He told me how he would give— he would ask other passengers to, if they had a room, to carry another suitcase so that they could bring it through customs so he wouldn't have to pay.

Oh, because you only have a finite amount of things. I see.

That's right. And, and I thought, look, a lot of people don't report all that they bought on the road. I get it. But why brag about it?

Totally. If you're going to do it, be quiet. Have some shame.

That's it. Thank you.

Shame.

Is there no shame?

Well, that's when Kamala Harris, who really should feel shame when she does this, when she repeats the bloodbath lie and the Charlottesville lie. What concerns me more isn't so much the lie itself as it is her ease with repeating it constantly.

Right.

With like, because it shows that there's no shame. Well, you're not even trying to— to—

That's right. That's the lies about her opponent. What about the lies? So if you had to bet, what is the most valuable material thing you have in your life? Because you don't own a home. Is it your car?

Yeah.

If you had to bet your car that she had worked at a McDonald's, I wouldn't bet my car. Exactly.

I would not. And I bet a lot of her voters would not bet their cars.

Exactly correct. That's what I said on the air.

Yeah, I bet. I bet a lot of people would.

Even if you are for her, would you bet your house?

Nope.

That she had worked at McDonald's? Wouldn't you think one person would have come forward? Hey, I remember working with Kamala at McDonald's or Tim or a stub from a government record of payments.

It's very, it's very easy to demonstrate pictures and everything. It's very easy to do.

I told Sue, I said I was a camp waiter one summer when I was 18.

I was a camp counselor.

I was a camp counselor too. I learned— I was one of the greatest—

Me too. I learned so much.

Yes. So I just want to say the number of people who would come forward, and this is a long time before Kamala Harris allegedly worked at McDonald's and say, yeah, I remember Dennis Prager as a camp waiter.

Of course I know it's, it's a terrible thing. But, but back to this point for a minute on being the real deal.

Yeah. So explain to people what that means. The real deal.

It means that I know what I know. I have earned getting into Harvard.

That's right.

I go to sleep at night and I know that I earned that. I know that I have earned getting this job and guest hosting and, you know, hosting my show. I know it's like a, you know, you know what actually the best analogy is? When you eat poorly and you haven't exercised, don't you kind of feel you can justify it in your head, but don't you feel a little bit like a slug? Whereas if you have a really good workout and you have a cookie, you know, you earn that cookie. That's how that's That's how I feel. And also in the eyes of others, I know that people respect me. They know that I'm smart. They know that I'm hardworking. They know that I'm the real deal. This guy who I went to college with, nobody thinks he's the real deal. Some people had a perverse respect for him because he had this— he was quite skillful at repeatedly getting away with doing no work. No, he was— he actually was really like— he also got a job at a very prestigious firm. Of course, I think his father got him the job. But he, he, he really kind of like made a business out of getting to these very prestigious levels of doing nothing. And I, I always saw through that. I always thought that that was gross. But some people had a weird respect for him. But nobody, nobody actually respects that guy.

And, and were women attracted to him?

Oh my God, uh, some.

I would think so, actually.

Some.

I assume he had money. He was probably good looking.

Not really.

Interesting.

He just has a lot of money and a lot of hubris, which takes, which takes guys a long way.

That's right.

Not, not for this girl. I run, I run in the— I could never, I could never date anyone who wasn't a good person.

It would be an immediate— really handsome?

Oh God, I don't— you know, I don't—

this is a joke. It's a great joke.

Women in this way do not work.

No, I know that. No, no, no, no, no.

Is it a turnoff if the guy's too handsome?

Well, women correctly, but there's no, there's no such thing as always or all. There are always exceptions. But a, it's, it's a yellow flag. It's not a red flag. It's a yellow flag if a guy is really, really handsome. First of all, the odds are he's gay. The vast majority of really good-looking men. It is— seems like nature did that because men are so visually oriented. It's true for gay men just as it is for straight men. They're visually oriented.

Hmm.

Hmm.

It is true. If I— there are a lot of really—

well, look at— look at the history of Hollywood. The most handsome men, at least half of them were gay. And, and that was at a time when it was a big problem to be—

it to be known, right? Well, do you relate to this being feeling like you're the real deal?

Oh, look, real. I, I can't, I can't relate to the non-real with me or anybody else. It's, it's related to my obsession with clarity because clear is real. By the way, my obsession with clarity applies to my photography and my audio system. When you heard my audio system— and I won't get sidetracked— when the thing that struck you was— anybody who listens, my God, it's so clean.

It is, it is.

I, I hear it. I hear the backup violin or, or, you know, banjo. I mean, yeah, so I, I love real. I only love real.

I just—

I, by the way, I am more attracted to women. I'm as visually inclined as any, any man in the world. I'm a male, but I am more attracted to a woman with a quote-unquote some flaw, so to speak, than the, the perfectly plastic. Yes, there's— in fact, it's not even comparable.

I, I mean, I'm a woman, but, but I think that women who are really beautiful, like beautiful in a real way, are, are far more attractive even with their some flaws because of their authenticity.

Yes, yes.

No, I agree. But I just, I, you know, so I've started asking some of my, my friends if they got extra time, some of my friends in law school. Oh, and, and some of them have.

And you know them to be— yes, yes, perfectly fine. And did you ask them anything else? Did you say, what? Yeah, why did you get—

look, every— I mean, every single other person in my class was doing it, and I don't— I don't want to be the chump to not do it.

That's my argument. If everybody—

it made me lose some respect for you.

No, I agree with you. You should just do the right thing anyway. I mean, I know that sounds preachy, but that's why I didn't cheat in high school. Everybody— there were 4 of us who didn't cheat, 3 or 4 in the entire grade. It was 120 kids, but the entire grade. And they— by the way, they're all— they all gave the argument because I had an anti-cheating campaign. They all gave the argument, everybody does it.

I know, imagine, but imagine how powerful it would be if they could eliminate that argument. If these standardized test companies could do something to, to get rid of that and just say, we're not, we're not allowing it at all.

You know, I think there is one immediate way to get rid of it. The, the law school should be told 100% on the LSAT, this person has a disability and have access.

By the way, it affects the whole point of the LSAT supposedly and standardized tests. Tests are to gauge how you are going to do in law school.

That's right.

So if you got extra time on the LSAT, right, it's actually very relevant for law schools to know that.

That would end it for the vast majority of people in one day.

And here's another thing I would want to know. I would want a history of one's diagnosis.

We—

did you just happen to get— develop test anxiety in 11th grade when you're taking the SAT and then in 7, 8, 9, 10, 5.

I would like to know for all the people who get on Southwest.

Oh my gosh.

Where else in life?

I'm like, don't you feel like a grifter? Don't you feel like you—

People don't feel like grifters.

That is so, and I'm not saying this in any kind of futuristic way. That's so strong in me.

Right.

It's like, yeah.

What percentage of Americans whom the country will bail out of their student debt feel any guilt over the fact that millions did pay their debts?

But I think that's different. I hear your point because that person isn't actively engaging.

Okay, fine.

They happen to get lucky just as I happen to get unlucky.

Yeah.

To go to college when the COVID thing happened.

They should still feel something.

I understand that. But, but actually, well, I don't know if they should. I mean, I think they should be aware that they got very lucky. But they're not actively participating in something unethical. People who lie to get extra time, they are.

Yeah. Nobody thinks— while we're here, the Department of Justice published revised final regulations implementing the ADA for Title II state and local government services and Title III public accommodations and commercial facilities on September 15th, 2010. Why is that related to the exam? Oh, it is federal. He just read to us that it's federal. I assumed it was federal. That's what the ABA is about. Every, every, not most, it's one of the rare times I would say all, violating my rule from earlier, because the moment you don't think this way, you leave the left. You could become a liberal, You could become a conservative. But every leftist believes good intentions suffice. We care about those with disabilities, therefore we will pass the ADA and that ends the issue.

Well, you know, it's— I think about my sister with autism who would never even be able to take the LSAT. She wouldn't even be able to take the entrance exam for kindergarten if there is such a thing. She would, you know, but I picture her with her earphones because she has such bad noise sensitivity. And she throws that— she's this very squishy ball and she'll just throw it against the wall for, you know, 3 hours. And I picture her and then I picture these people who are grifting and lying that they have some kind of disability in order to get an absurd accommodation for something that they're even just so lucky to do in the first place, which is apply to law school. And I'm like, this is just This is, this is so messed up.

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I told you it was a good subject. And let me tell you, I'm going to do a fireside chat. I bet. I bet a lot of people listening and watching right now, and I'm sure we're going to see this in the comments when the episode airs, I can guarantee you that a lot of people have seen this in their jobs, in their application processes. This is widespread. And, you know, I really hope— gosh, this is like my little fantasy— I hope one day there will be a backlash to this. And I think there will be. I think there'll be a big backlash, excuse me, to wokeism. I think we're starting to see it now. And I think there'll be a big backlash to this kind of grifting. I hope one day someone exposes all of the names of people who got extra time. No, really. I'm saying on the record, I hope that happens because the people who legitimately got it will be able to defend themselves and then the people who won't, won't.

I think everybody should ask a lawyer that they hire Did you take extra time on the LSAT?

It shows something of the character of—

Look up, Sean. You don't know the answer, right, about the bar exam?

No, but here's—

If you're given extra time.

Here's something else that it proves. It actually proves how awful the legal system has become because what the law used to be, you used to endeavor to uphold the law because it is the right thing to do. Now it's just, you can make the best argument. You can just bend the law however you want to contort it to your own purposes. That's what good lawyers do. They find some kind of basis and they twist it without judging that against objective moral standards.

That's right. I'm quiet because I'm sad about that. It's happening. It's going to happen to medicine.

Well, it is. I mean, imagine people like me who are working their tail off.

Yeah.

And, you know, are not good test takers and you're watching other people just cheat. I don't feel bad for myself, you know, I'm not asking for people to feel bad for me, but it's just, it's just—

You get extra time on the bar exam if you have a disability. You hear that? That's mind-blowing.

Oh, come on. I mean, I saw this in high school. People not only on the SAT and the ACT, but just on a math test or a reading test or any, any test. Test, you can get it. We live in a world now in America where you can basically get whatever you want.

Where cheating is actually—

and it's your truth. You can't tell your truth. Yes.

By the way, even if you have a disability, it's cheating because you didn't, you didn't in fact get the same grade as the other person. I'm not saying that everyone with a disability who takes extra time is cheating, but they're not certainly desiring of cheating necessarily at all. But it is cheating. Your grade is a misrepresentation of the truth, and that's cheating.

Here, here's the thing I would want to know, and we've already, we've already touched on it, but why can't— why is it a HIPAA violation? Think about it.

Any, any— that's gone crazy too. Any release of medical data is a HIPAA violation.

I mean, wouldn't you need to notify? There's a guy. There was a guy who I know.

No, you can tell the whole LSAT exam crowd I have a disability. You can tell Southwest Airlines, but nobody could tell that you took it. That you took the exemption? It's absurd.

It is. And there was someone who I went to college with, and he— this is so tragic— he actually became a quadriplegic because he was rendered obsolete in a football accident. He was tackled and he broke his back and teeth.

Oh my God.

No. And he's paralyzed from the neck down. And he has to be in a wheelchair, not just a wheelchair, but basically like a wheelchair bed for his whole life. Any job he goes to, any school he goes to, I mean, you're going to need to notify the school about that, right? You're—

that accommodation violation, is that what you're asking?

Exactly. That is exactly what I'm asking. Of course it's not a HIPAA violation. If you need an accommodation, the school that you're going to go to needs to know that you need accommodation. The solution to this is to notify the schools, have the LSAT be the same for everyone, and then if you have a disability, you tell the school and then they'll judge it. They'll go, oh wow, this person has suffered from severe processing or dyslexia since he or she was 5 years old. We're going to judge their LSAT score against that limitation.

I can't get over what we just learned about the bar exam.

Oh, it doesn't surprise me.

Your issue is not that there is accommodations for people with disabilities. Your issue is with the violation of people trying to take advantage of that. No, no, no. Sean asks, is my issue with people taking advantage of it or that it exists at all? My issue is that it exists at all.

I think I would call, and we can have a difference of opinion here, I would qualify that for mental disabilities.

Right.

Then we don't— I mean, oh yes, because you can't, you can't fake a physical disability, right? Of course. I—

well, no, no. Well, so what does that even mean, a physical disability? I can't, I can't use the mouse for the computer exam? Is that what you mean? I don't have hand mobility? I have a paralyzed arm?

Yeah.

Okay, so there's an, there's an answer. You get a— the state supplies a a tutor or a proctor or whatever you want to call the person and you say, press.

Right. But that's an accommodation.

No. Well, it's not really an accommodation. You're not—

or that's a change in the way that they test.

But it's a minimal extra time. Agreed.

I don't have an issue with that. Yeah.

Okay.

We're agreeing.

I'm talking 99%.

I think it's pretty clear what we believe. I think it's pretty clear that if, you know, If you have— again, this is speaking as someone who— you're the stepfather of a disabled son, right? And I am the sister of a severely disabled girl. If you have— if you are faking a disability to get ahead, that is morally important.

No, no, we're all on board on— everybody agrees with— everybody.

Not true. Not everybody.

Oh, I think everybody, even the left, if they would— they would not say it's okay to fake.

The people in my group class would.

They would say it's okay to fake, to lie that you have a disability. They would—

some of them would, yes.

Okay, all right. That's so bizarre to me because it's leveling the playing field. No, it's, it's only—

they would say it's okay to fake because I— everybody else is doing it.

Oh, oh, oh, I see. Oh, okay. Oh, in that regard, yes. Act— okay, okay, fine. I'll leave that aside. That's a— that's the person who objects to it happening. But if, hey, Okay, if they get that advantage, I want that advantage. Okay, I don't agree with them, but I understand. But my issue is with its existence at all. Competence is the only fair way to have an exam. That's it. If that you— you know, it's— this is opening a Pandora's box. But what came to my mind is abortion, where it's, it's no longer is it for the mother's health. It's also her emotional health. So in other words, I'm in the 7th month of pregnancy and I realize the guy who impregnated me has broken up. I don't want this baby and my emotional health depends upon aborting it. That you can't do that.

Well, the missing ingredient— forgive me, I don't mean to interrupt you, but the missing ingredient here and it's funny because it purports to be the, the primary ingredient and it is actually the missing one, is a consideration of your responsibilities to other people.

Right. And not just the left. You've done is raised two generations, maybe three, to believe that society owes them. They don't owe society.

I believe I have a responsibility to people who suffer truly from disabilities, and I have a responsibility to continue my meritocratic society. To not be a grifter.

Yeah, we— as I said, I think most people agree you can't be a grifter. I want to make clear— and I'm not— as of course, you may not agree fully. It's wrong, period. You can't give people extra time and, and not announce it.

I agree.

I agree. Your grade is not representational of reality and that it's, it's there. It's a fraudulent grade that you have.

I mean, and also here's the other thing, like, okay, I'm doing this, this regularly, right? I may have to take the LSAT 2 times or maybe even 3 times. That's more money with tutoring, more money with group classes. I could just be done, you know? I mean, people, people don't understand all of the implications. The people who are getting 3 times extra time in one section removed, removed. They're basically done.

That's right.

If you study for the LSAT and you have a lot of time, you can go back and you can— because everything is provable. You just— the whole— literally, this is the thing that drives me nuts. The whole point of the test is to be able to, to process information under time pressure.

That's right.

If you have 3 times extra time, you have an 800-word passage, you can spend an hour going back and finding the direct Direct proof. It's—

You know what I wonder? And I know we got to, we got to end the podcast here, but I really wonder if I were allowed or someone like me were allowed to debate this issue on a nationally televised debate with someone who defended giving people with mental issues.

Yeah, I would love to bring on—

No, no, no, no, no. But I just want to finish. I would like to know what the vote would be among Americans.

Oh, interesting.

I have no idea. Most Americans are anti-woke, including liberals, not leftists, but liberals. But I wonder on this whether the brainwash of you must feel compassion, you can't have standards trump compassion. Compassion always trumps standards. I wonder which would work. I don't know the answer. I'd be very curious in a national plebiscite on that question.

Well, you know, for the rest of my life, when I encounter people who—

you'll ask—

I'm going to ask them.

Yes. Well, they'll, they'll ask you so many questions because it's just part of the problem. People don't think about it. The instinct is, well, they, they're mentally handicapped. Of course they should have more time.

It, it's, yeah, I, I think, I really do think there, there's going to be a backlash. I think it's going to get to a certain point where, you know what, I, I'll tell you when I take it, if I can see how many other students are in my group, if you will, of the, of the regular online normal.

By the way, just to bring it full circle and and end the discussion.

Sure.

The, the, the man who ran the exam.

Yeah. The study, the group study tutor.

Okay. The tutor. So did you infer that he was against it or you was no way to make out?

He's just very like he's just.

So there was no way to know.

He said, I'm not endorsing it. I'm not condemning it. I just, I'm telling this to you because he tells, he tells you, you know, this is how you sign up. This is, when you get your score, he kind of gives a big outline of the test. And then he said, as far as accommodations, I'm just telling you the truth that if you want it, you'll get it.

I, I think sports is the perfect way to explain to people it's not fair.

Yep, it is. It is.

You have a physical disability. We're allowing you a 40-yard head start. And then would you say the person won the race?

Well, okay, maybe coming to— I'm eager to hear your thoughts, and especially if you have direct experiences with this, which I'm, I'm sure many people do. You can email me at julie@julie-hartman.com. You can also follow me on Instagram and Twitter @JulieRhartman. You can follow Dennis on Instagram @TheDennisPrager and on Twitter @DennisPrager.

Follow me at DennisPrager.com or PragerU.

Fun to be with you. We'll see you soon.

Fizz.

Shalom.

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