The Pandemic of Demoralization

Your dog and a stranger are drowning. You can only save one. Who do you choose? Dennis Prager says your answer reveals everything about how you define right and wrong. In his new book, If There Is No God, Prager exposes the danger of emotion-based morality and why without objective truth society descends into chaos. This isn't a religious book. It's a rational case for moral clarity in a confused age. If There Is No God from Dennis Prager. Order now at PragerStore.com.

Welcome to the They Enjoy Each Other Hour. That's a good one.

It is a good one.

Yeah, it just came to my mind as I said hello. Dennis and Julie. Dennis Prager, Julie Hartman. But that would be if just as— well, there's no such thing. Dennis and Julie can't get more accurate than that. But they enjoy each other.

I know that we've—

by the way, it's amazing. That's a topic unto itself. Do you know that I don't ask couples— tell me if I've said this on Dennis and Julie, because you're like a living— you're— I know you're a living— not thesaurus.

Recording machine.

Yeah. I don't ask a young couple, do you love each other? So they're planning to marry. So, you know, if they're, they're asking for advice or opening up to me, either one or both. So I don't ask, do you love each other? I assume the answer is yes. So I don't even ask that. I ask a, a more important question. You know what it is?

Do you enjoy each other?

Yeah.

And you can really tell if a couple does and if they don't. It's very apparent.

You can easily love another person but not enjoy them.

Hmm.

In the long run, my sense is, and I've had long runs, I would say that you enjoy each other is ultimately even a greater predictor of marital joy than do you love each other. I can't imagine— I can imagine people who love each other and don't enjoy each other more than I can imagine people enjoying each other and not loving each other.

If I'm thinking about all the people who I love, I think I enjoy all of them too. And I think—

well, that's so— that's interesting. If that's true, I think you're in the minority. I don't know how many—

well, yeah, I can actually think of some examples.

Well, I don't know how many people enjoy their parents. Many people love their parents. Not everybody does even that, but that will put that aside. I don't know how many people enjoy their parents. I'm not, I'm not certain that that's what parents are there for. They're there, they're there for love, security, continuity, a whole bunch of things. I hope my kids enjoy me. I really do. I, and I, I try to make myself enjoy a bull. But I don't know that that's the norm. Do you enjoy your parents? Yeah, ask your friends that.

Hmm.

It would be very interesting if people were honest, if they would answer that.

Well, I think if your parents are good parents, there are going to be periods of life where you certainly don't enjoy them. If your parents are your best friends, that's a problem. Yeah. I, in general, very much enjoy my parents. I love them. But there have certainly been times when I haven't, but that's because they've disciplined me or they've, you know, tried to do what's, what's best for me.

I'm trying to think about, so growing up, that would not have been my, the way I would've described my parents. So once I was an adult, yeah, I, I would say, what my parents did for me once I was an adult was better than— than, you know already, well, what are you thinking?

Was better than if they had just showered you with love and adoration?

Oh, clearly. But when I— that's absolutely correct. But what I was thinking, there was something even better This is going to sound— I think it's going to sound a little awful. It's— it's— it— the last thing in my mind is to make it sound awful, but I'm— but I want to— I will be open. The thing they did for me that is even perhaps better or tied with 'do you enjoy them' was they presented me with no problems. I would say that's, that's even like a step below enjoying, and yet it's so important. Kids who do not present problems to parents, and I don't mean this when they're 16, that's almost inevitable, but when they're grown up, okay, 25 up, let's say. If parents are very lucky if their child presents no issues to them, and likewise children are very lucky if their parents don't present problems to them.

Well, this harkens back to something that you said to me off the air, and it stuck with me. You said that you endeavor to be an easy presence in people's lives.

I love that you remember that.

And I thought that actually—

Easy is a great goal.

The thing about you that a lot of people wouldn't— or maybe, maybe your, your listeners would get this, but, but it's hard to get it unless you know you. People would think that the main utility of having someone like Dennis Prager in your life is that he's so wise and he's so intellectual and there's so much that he can teach you. And all of that is certainly true. I'm the beneficiary of all of those things. But above all else, you're really easy. I have rarely, if ever, seen you be ornery or sassy or, you know, I said this to you a few weeks ago. I said, you know, you've, you've done so much for me and, you know, intellectually, professionally. I mean, you, you were so nice to give me the chance to come on to your radio show weekly that, that one summer. That was a big risk that you were taking. And you could really hold that over me. You know, you could, you could say, you know, I really, I helped you break out into radio. Can you do this for me? Can you, you know, defend me publicly and this, you know, when people are mad at me about this or that, but you've never done that ever. And I know that it comes back to the fact that you, you endeavor to be an easy presence. And that's why when you said a few moments ago that you hope that your kids enjoy you, I know that they do in large part because you're very easy.

Good.

I hope I'm easy. I think I'm trying to be easy.

You are easy. That's right. And it's interesting. I think you work at it.

I do work at it. Well, the thing is—

Let me just tell you, I'm interrupting you, but you'll appreciate why.

Go ahead.

Why do I say that? I mean, Isn't that interesting that I did say that? You work at it more than I work at it. That's my— that's— I work at it. I'm very conscious of being easy in people's lives. But you do. The reason I said that was because you don't fall asleep quickly.

Therefore, I knew you were going to say this.

You did?

Yes. Well, not, not the fall asleep, but I knew you were going to say that I ruminate and I'm very hard on myself. And that's what contributes to it.

Right. In other words, you have a bigger battle.

Yes, definitely. That's putting it mildly. By the way, I just looked at myself on the screen. I'm matching the colors today. This is a very Dennis and Julie dress that I'm wearing.

This is a Dennis and Julie shirt.

It is actually. It really is, because it's blue and black stripes.

It's unbelievable. Uncanny.

We didn't even plan it. We never plan anything.

The Lord is at work.

But I, you know, I'm really trying to work on this pattern of thought that I have. I'm relentlessly self-critical. And I've talked about this on the show before. It comes from the fact that as, as, as complimentary to myself as this may sound, in order to achieve what I achieved in athletics, in school, in college admissions, even on, you know, career-wise, I, my way of doing that was to convince myself that I was just barely skating by and that if I didn't keep up my relentless work, then all of it was going to go away. Even when I won swimming races, I would think like, well, you just got lucky today. Like everyone else was tired or I would convince myself that there was, I was just hanging by a thread. But that now I've so internalized those thoughts that I don't ever think I've done anything good or anything extraordinary or worthy of praise. I just think I've done the bare minimum. But anyway, that's just to say you're right that this is something that I work on because although I think and I hope when I'm interacting with people I'm easy, I sometimes myself doubt in my criticisms of myself, I think kind of comes out and people can sense it. And in that way, maybe I'm not the easiest. I don't know.

I don't, I don't think that's true. I just know because we're very open with each other. So I know, I mean, how would I know that you don't fall asleep quickly?

Right. But why did you say that's evidence for how I work on being?

Because it means that You're— you, you don't have— you have an easy life in terms of creature comforts and security, you know, financial security, etc., but you don't have an easy life internally. Your internal life doesn't strike me as easy. All of this self-criticism or all of the ruminating that keeps you up at night, I don't have that.

I know. Well, you— so do you— I'm not even asking the question. It's a stupid question. I was going to say, do you think you're the norm? But the answer is, of course you're not the norm. You're the exception. I think the vast majority of people are far more like me than they are like you.

I agree with you.

So how do you attribute this to your nature?

Yes.

Or do you attribute it to working? Because I've even seen the ways that I am starting to overcome this. I mean, 2 years ago, right? I was way worse than that.

No, both are true. But let me tell you something. It's hard for me to believe we haven't discussed this, but it doesn't matter. It's so important. Every human being has two natures. By the way, this is only— this is a realization that I— it's been very recent in my life, even though it's so obvious. I should have known this 40 years ago, but I didn't. There are literally— everyone has two natures: human nature and which everybody has. There's such a thing as human nature, and everyone has battles with human nature. Envy, selfishness, greed, you name it. Everybody has some battles with their human nature. But everybody has battles and blessings with their unique nature. That, that's, that's the point.

Yeah.

That— so I wonder, because I was not, I was not a particularly happy, uh, child prior to the age of 14.

I know.

And, and, uh, I am at times very unhappy, and I know that I consciously pursued happiness. I know this once I was in high school. I mean, it— but on the other hand, what I do think now is I battled to let my real nature, which is happy, come out.

Mm-hmm. Well, so this is a nice segue because I wanted to tell the audience a bit about my interaction with your grandson Jack. And he is just the most naturally—

8 years old—

happy, Such a character.

Yeah.

Like, he really, like, if you ever wanted to make oodles of money, which I know is not your principal concern, right? As it is values. But if you ever wanted to make oodles of money, literally just get a camera crew and follow him around and put it on the internet and call it like a day in the life of Jack Prager. It is so, he is so funny. But he, I'll tell the story about him, but just to kind of finish with this conversation. Or do you add a point? I used to be like that when I was young. I was so carefree in a character. And I actually, believe it or not, I was kind of the class clown when I was younger. And I had to be disciplined by teachers to stop being rowdy. I mean, I wasn't, I wasn't like a troublemaker. A troublemaker.

Yeah, I understand.

But I was, I remember, you know, I was just loud and funny and I loved entertaining people. When I was young, people thought I was going to be a comedian. But then as I got older, by the way, I feel like it's— I'm making myself sound like a deeply unhappy, tortured person. I'm not. Do I struggle with self-doubt and self-criticism?

Right.

Yes. But I'm able to have fun. And I, I would consider myself actually to be a very happy person overall. But as I got older, and I've seen this happen to different people too, especially in the kind of schools that I went to, which were all about, you know, discipline and achievement. I kind of had that knocked out of me. And I so focused on being, you know, the straight-A student and the person who was beloved by every teacher and the best performer and the best everything. And I look back and interestingly, now we live in a world where people could use a lot more discipline and a lot more seriousness in school. But I look back and I sort of wonder which would have benefited me more. Obviously there needs to be a balance, but sometimes I think maybe in the long term in life, it may have benefited me more had I held on more to the crazy kooky character than to the perfect, you know, stellar student.

It's been very hard for me not to say anything because I— Dennis Prager here with a man I have come to admire for his work. So when I asked him, what do you do? This is the title he gave: Wealth Architect.

Very simply put, I am a wealth architect that helps my clients accelerate the way they grow your wealth. It's not how much you make, it's how much you keep. The Internal Revenue Code is embedded with a number of things that you can take advantage of. It's what I call playing tax chess. We take the time to play tax chess in your favor. We give our clients unbiased, independent advice across all areas in their financial life. Because we have no incentive to sell anything.

I was taken enough and impressed enough to have you do my work, and you have in fact saved me a serious amount of money. CharlesDombeck.com/Prager. I'm debating either whether to say it because it's not my life, but I don't think that I'm betraying a confidence. So I have an older brother who's extremely successful like you, the same Harvard stuff as well. I mean, truly, and sports stuff. He was captain of the basketball team and ended up at Harvard Medical School. So it's a very— I am, I am close and have been my whole life to a person very similar to you in these ways. I have seen movies. They're silent because they're from, you know, the old age. And my, but my dad, to his credit, loved technology. So he always had the latest whatever invention was. And he actually has color movies of much more of my brother. Once I came around, he was pretty bored with taking movies of a child.

Whatever you have, you should publish.

I agree with you, but the point I'm making is a very serious one. When I look at my brother in those movies of him in up through high school before college, you have a happy-go-lucky character just performing almost before the camera. And then in college, he became truly Mr. Serious, and that has sort of personified his personality ever since. And, uh, he was driven to, to, uh, the, the success you were driven to, academic and, and all other And I wasn't. I—

You were kind of the— not, not—

Yeah. No, no, no. Let's— Oh, yes. You tried to take the other route. I retained the lightheartedness because I didn't pursue. Here's an interest. I don't know if I've shared this with you. I don't think I've shared it on Dennis and Julie. So This, I'm sure I've made some reference to, that I did no work in high school. I mean, literally no work. I, I didn't do one homework in 4 years. I had the exact same notebook for 4 years. I was terribly proud of that fact that I had filled it with nothing. I mean, I don't even know if a kid could get away with it today, what I did. No homework, no, no work. I studied for exams in order to pass them. I didn't give a damn what grades I got, and I ended up in the bottom 20%, or upper 80%, as I like to say it, of my graduating class. I thank God every— I don't know, I can't say every day, but very frequently— that I allowed myself a lighthearted youth. Because, and I know I've said this to you privately, but I don't think I've mentioned this on, on our podcast. I, I don't even come close to burnout.

Yeah.

At my age.

It's a real problem.

Yes, it's a very real problem. Did I tell you the story of the woman I sat next to on an airplane?

Oh, with the son?

Yeah, who was at Harvard Medical School. Yes.

You told that to Dennis and Julie.

But yes.

You know what? I listened to Dennis and Julia the other day, and sometimes when we both know a story, you go, have I told it? And I go, yes. And then we move on. And I can imagine the listener gets sometimes like annoyed. Annoyed. So let's— so do you want me to synopsize it or you synopsize it?

Yeah, I could do it.

We need to work on that.

I was just— work on what?

We need to work on not just communicating, you know, like if we both know the story, moving on. We need to tell the story again. Yes. Oh, I think—

yeah, I, of course, I agree. Who remembers it? I don't exactly. I'm super worried about, oh, well, I bore people if I even heard the story. But we can be quick. It's silly because I'm totally happy to hear— if I enjoy someone, I'm totally happy to hear a story the second or eighth time. Anyway, very quickly, I'm sitting next to a woman on a plane and she's— I couldn't help— she's Before we took off, she's talking and literally says, you're all— you're suffering burnout and you want to talk to her son. Yes, to her son. You want to leave school. And so how could I not hear her conversation? So I said, when she hung up, I said, I'm so sorry. May I ask what this is about? He said, yes, my son is at Harvard Medical School. From the earliest age, he was an incredibly determined student to get A's, got into Harvard. And now he's totally burned out. And all I thought was, thank you, God. I will never burn out. I knew it.

But here's the thing, Dennis. You were an extraordinary kid in that in lieu of working, you went to symphonies, you learned Russian.

Oh, I told myself to conduct orchestras. A lot of kids, I mean, they're the exception.

They'll get into gangs, they'll get into drugs, they'll get into video games or pornography. And so I have a lot of respect for you for the, for the tough position that parents are in where they need to, you know, right.

If your kid doesn't wanna do schoolwork, they have to do something else.

Right.

That's productive. But that's, that's the key to every parent listening.

But your point about the lightheartedness, like maintaining it, I, I think that is so true. And I, I can't tell you how many people I've seen lose it. And to an extent I lost it, but I'm getting it back.

Yes.

And it didn't totally die. Actually, it's funny because I think more off camera it comes out than on camera, which I'm trying to work on. Not that I'm fake on camera, I think I just go more towards the serious side.

I told you the hardest thing I had to teach myself when I began radio was to be myself.

And it's very unnatural to Or it's, it's hard to, you know, stare at a camera, especially when I'm alone on my show. Yeah. And then make a joke to the camera. Yeah. Like you don't have anybody to play off of. Yes.

Right.

But, but anyway, I, I have seen so many people who were these joyful, lighthearted, full of spirit, full of energy, full of personality, kids or adolescents. And then you encounter them later and they, and, and look, I understand this may be specific to the environments that I was in. Again, I am keenly aware that now there's kind of been this pendulum swing where in a lot of schools, there's no discipline and, and people are just cast out adrift, which is his own problem. But I've seen people just become robots and hollow human beings. It was really sad, actually. So at my high school, we had this program where we were junior advisors when we were, uh, in 11th grade to 8th graders. And every single day, uh, when I was there, you'd have an advisory program and you as an 11th grader would be assigned to a group of 10 8th graders. And every morning you'd go in and kind of be their advisor and talk about their day with them and be kind of a mentor. And I loved that. I love being a mentor, being a leader. And it was so fun. And I was best friends with all these 8th grade girls at my school and they'd see me in the hallway and I took so much joy in them. And I think and hope they took so much joy in me. And a few years ago, like 2 years ago, I ran into one of them on the street and she was like, oh my God, Julie. And I, and I, you know, we were so happy to see each other. And I remembered her as so funny and goofy and irreverent and not to an absurd extent, but just like sunshine. And she was like, you could just tell in her face, or as they would say in 19th century literature, countenance. That's a word they use a lot. And I love that word. You could see in her countenance there was just this like gloom. And she had— and she was like, I'm— she was in 11th or 12th grade. And she's like, yeah, I'm in the middle of college apps. And I'm in the middle, you know, taking the SAT. And it was just like— and I actually—

what happened?

I think she got the life kicked out of her. I think she was so focused on getting into college, so focused on getting good. And I get it, you know, that she just— the— it was like a kind of a soul suck. And I, and I pulled her aside and I hope this wasn't heavy-handed, but I just said, I remember you as the most spirited person. Don't lose that. Hold on to that girl. Remember who she was. Go back to her. Don't lose that. And she, and she, she was kind of startled that I said it, but I think it meant a lot to her.

Where did she end up in college?

I don't know if I should say. I don't.

Okay.

A very good college.

Prestigious. They're very good colleges.

At all review.

So you're the one who actually pointed out to me, you have made a very eloquent case about how the life can get kicked out of you when so much goes into the resume, pursuing not much else goes into the person. Yeah, that was, it was an insight from you. I mean, I had never articulated it that way. I knew it in high school. That's why I said I didn't give a damn where I went to college.

Right.

But so do you know Freud makes this— Freud, who was a genius in my opinion, even though he's ignored today. But he made the point, I think, in Civilization and Its Discontents. Dennis Prager, but I'm not, not certain. But he made the point civilization is built on self-suppression.

Oh, interesting.

Oh, I, I love when you love a point because it's such—

well, it's like, it's like eating candy. It's like, wow, candy.

Yes. And he is so right. If we, if we do what we want to do, civilization would never have been built. Civilization. That is why he believes— I hope I'm getting him right— neurosis is a product of civilization. Hmm. And now psychosis is a separate issue.

That's, you know, that's so true that civilization is the suppression of instinct. Yes, we have the instinct to steal. We have the instinct to be anarchists.

I was just—

polygamists.

Right. Oh, perfect. The last one's perfect. I was just reading an article, needless to say, the New York Times. It was celebratory of polyamory.

Oh, I saw that one.

You did?

Yes, I did.

Couples who— what is the word—

have open marriages.

Open marriages. Yeah.

I was just reading that this morning.

And so you don't— you don't build a civilization on people screwing around. I'm sorry. You also don't build a civilization on sick sexual repression. There is a middle road. I think America, I really do believe America pursued a great middle road where there was a big belief in monogamy, there was a big belief in marriage, there was a big belief in fidelity. There was a big condemnation of homosexuality. Of adultery, but there was also a real freedom. You know, women did not wear big cover-ups. My parents, Orthodox Jews, would watch the Miss America contest and watch them all model in swimsuits and talk to each other. So Hill, my father would call my mother Hill, her name was Hilda. So, Hill, what do you think of, you know, Miss Montana, huh? Pretty good, huh? And she'd go, I don't know, I thought Miss Oklahoma was cuter. And here they were, you know, faithful, married 69 years, together 72 years, 73 years. So do you get my point? The civilization is built. The primitive society did not have curbs. Like this. Uh, this notion, you know, free love and all of this stuff— for forgetting the morality of religious ethics, just in terms of building civilization— civilization is built on a certain suppression of human nature. It is just the way it works.

And people don't think in terms of building a civilization. They only think in terms of advancing themselves and their families.

Self-realization.

And that's the thing. Like, I wasn't really aware of this until recently. Like, we are in a moment in time right now. There are people who came before us and there are people who go— who are going to come after us. And the question that I am fascinated by is, are we fulfilling our responsibilities to both parties? Are we fulfilling our responsibilities to the people who have built this for us? And are we fulfilling our responsibilities to the people who we're going to pass civilization on to next? But we are not taught to think in those terms. Again, I'm not wagging the finger. I didn't really think in those terms until recently. But the people who I go back to and I— it's so funny with so much in my life, I think about how the old me would react to me saying this now. The old me, when I was learning about the colonial period in America, the first settlers, the first colonies, I thought that was the most oppressively boring thing in the world. And now I think it's riveting. I read Paul Johnson's History of the American People, which, by the way, everyone should read. It is 1,000 pages. And I know people are like hearing that and they're going, whoa, whoa, whoa. But it's actually quite concise because he goes from The first colony, which actually wasn't Jamestown. It was in, I think, like North Dakota, and it failed in the late 1500s. Yeah, there was North Dakota. I don't know if it's exactly— wait, did I say North Dakota?

I'm sorry.

North Carolina. Okay. I'm so sorry. Clearly I'm a fool.

See, by the way, folks, I'm looking in the camera.

Well, that was really dumb.

Clearly.

Well, North Dakota is nowhere close to the mistake.

And clearly.

Yeah, but that was cool. There are many good reasons to buy gold and silver. Bank failures, digital currency volatility, emerging market countries trying to topple the dollar as a global reserve currency. Julie Hartman here for Amped Coin and Bullion, Dennis Prager's choice for buying precious metals. If you ask Amped owner Nick Grovich to simplify the case for precious metals, he'll tell you when President Roosevelt recalled the gold in circulation and paid people with paper money, they received a $20 bill for a $20 gold piece. Today, that $20 bill won't even fill half of your gas tank, but the gold piece is worth about $2,000. Which would you rather own? Now let's simplify the reasons to use AmpFedCoin in bullion. Nick's been in the industry for over 42 years, and he's proud of providing transparency and fair pricing to build trusted relationships. If you're interested in buying or selling, call Nick and his team at AmpFedCoin and Bullion, 1-800- 221-7694. AmericanFederal.com. AmericanFederal.com. Okay, it's pretty stupid. Okay, anyway, whatever. So it's okay, whatever. He goes from the end of the 16th century to the 1980s, basically. And it's concise, and he gives you only the most pertinent information. It's a great book. But anyway, the first chapter is about the colonial period. And I remember reading that and I thought, oh God, Julie, you're going to have to slog through this one. You know, it's just something that you should know as a commentator, as an American citizen. And that was my favorite chapter of all because I was humbled by these individuals' purpose beyond themselves. I mean, can you imagine you are in England now? Now, of course, they were persecuted, but they weren't persecuted so heavily that they had to leave. These were people who— Puritans who were trying to get away from the Anglican Church, the Church of England, because they thought the Church of England was too much resembled the Catholic Church. And anyway, that doesn't matter. But the point is, it's not like they were, you know, Jewish minorities living in a Muslim majority. It wasn't so bad that they had to move, but they thought about They didn't think about themselves at all. They thought about posterity. And 102 people got on the Mayflower. They went on a terribly difficult journey of several months in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean in a wooden boat. People died. They had to throw the bodies overboard. People got diseases. They got seasick. Babies were born. I mean, it was just like, can you imagine how terrifying it was to be on that? They get to a new land. There are Native Americans there who are trying to kill them. They're in a new environment. The winter is hard and they literally have to build a civilization. And half of the first settlers died in the first winter. But you know what they did? They, they had such a remarkable view of building civilization that they persevered through it and they got married and they had kids, not for themselves, but for civilization. Can you imagine? Like, what kind of— do those people exist today? They— you know, another thing I think about is all the Americans who went to war in World War II to defend our freedoms and to defend people across the world who we didn't know and didn't have a connection to, to try to save them. Do we have people now in society who believe so much in something beyond themselves that they would do a similar thing? I don't think that we do. But anyway, that's just to say that we have come from people who only thought about how to advance civilization. And now we are rewarding those people by not thinking at all about how to advance civilization, only to enrich ourselves.

What is the statement? We're living on the fumes.

That's what I say. Yes, we're living on the dregs and the fumes of Judeo-Christian values. So can I tell about Jack? Unless you—

No, no, please. Yes.

Okay. It's interesting how we, we got the— we got from the lightheartedness, and then you said civilization is built on the suppression of instincts. But, but the point is you, you want to maintain some good instincts. So Jack Prager, 8 years old, Dennis's grandson, and you have another grandson who's— who is remarkable. Really, he's a wonderful— he's 13 years old, Daniel, and he's so loving, um, to his, to his brother. But Jack is a hoot. So Jack was on Dennis's radio show recently, and you were quizzing him on capitals, right? And he got most of them except for Idaho, uh, and so after the show we were just chatting, and I— and you said that you also asked him, Jack, what do you want to be when you grow up?

On the air.

On the air.

Yeah.

And so we're off the air at this point and I'm saying, oh, Jack, what did you say? And he said, well, I said I wanted to be a soccer player. But then he turns to Dennis and he turns and he goes, but Poppy, I'm really— I'm going to have to find a team that will allow me to not play on Shabbat. He's 8. Like, who, who says that at 8 years old? Because obviously he's Jewish. Or do they grow up Orthodox Jewish?

Yeah.

And he wears a kippah. He's, he's very cute. And he goes, I think there were some baseball players in the past who didn't play on Shabbat. I hope I'll be able to find a team that will allow me to, you know, rest on the Sabbath. I'm like, I love you. It was so cute. And then I said to him, Jack, what's your favorite part about Judaism? And he says, um, I think I would say Shabbat or praying to Hashem.

Which is God in Hebrew.

He was just praying for God. An 8-year-old, like no sarcasm, totally genuine.

And he's not what people would think, you know, some religiously repressed kid.

No, no, he's like running around and he's so—

he's wild. Yes, he's a character.

He is. And then I said, what do you pray to Hashem about? And he goes, to thank him for things. And I said, like what? And he goes, well, recently I thanked him for the rain. And I said, why? And he points to the bag of chips that we have over there on the shelf. You can't see it on camera in the office. And he points and he goes, you know, Poppy, these chips wouldn't exist if it weren't for rain. Like, what kid speaks like that? And again, like some, some people may think like he was trying to put on an act to be cute. No, it was the most genuine And I just looked at him and I thought, you are so not jaded. You're so pure and you're so lighthearted and you're happy. But, but it's a, it's a great combination because he's joyful, lighthearted, and happy, but it's coupled with clearly great values and principles. And I've just very rarely seen such a, a lovely coming together of those two things. You think of them as being incompatible, right? You think the people with the good values would be the stern and the strict ones, and the lighthearted ones would be bandits.

I always tell the first thing I note in most homeschooled kids is that they're not jaded.

Mm-hmm.

Religion— and most of these kids have some religion in their lives, of the homeschooled kids— religion protects you from cynicism.

And so we were talking about how I observed in my environments where everyone was so focused on achievement that people lost their lightheartedness. And I said it was kind of like a soul suck. And I also said I acknowledge that that may be very specific to the environment that I was in. But we see this in a lot of different ways too. Like that, for instance, recently on Timeless, I was talking about why I deleted my personal social media account. And one of the things that I was saying was that so many people become jaded and on social media and they put so much into their social medias that there's not much left in who they are. Yeah, it's sort of my resume. There's so much in the resume, there's not much in the person, but applied to social media, that on social media you're so desperately trying to trumpet who you are instead of actually figuring out and being who you are. I'll, and I think politics has a similar thing. You can have your soul sucked out of you if you're in high school and you're focused too much on getting into college. You can have your soul sucked out of you if you're too focused on social media. But now we see these curriculums that are so like shoving politics down people's throats. And I think that is another way of kind of deadening and suppressing the lighthearted, joyful, nuanced parts of people's personalities. Like here in California, they just passed this truly—

Forgive me.

No, go ahead.

How do you go to, what is it, drag queen story hour at 6 years of age and not get jaded? Isn't that the ultimate jaded? Like a guy parading around in women's clothing.

I mean, I exposed a 9th grade California public high school curriculum on my show that a listener sent to me and said, please show this. And all the slides are about trigger warnings and about intersectionality and intersectionality and about privileged and oppressors and oppressed. There's an Illinois school district I also exposed on my show who teaches preschoolers what non-binary ism is. And then by kindergarten, they have to be fluent in what transgenderism is. And then by 8th grade, they have to be able to demonstrate that they have tools to combat heteronormativity. I mean, it's like, and you, I'm sure these kids are going to these schools and like their whole, they're being bombarded with this confusion and this, these like draconian, like society is heteronormative and you need to, you know, unravel your heteronormative, you know, inclination. It's like, this is not what kids should be exposed to. Even here in California, there's this law that was passed by the truly sick governor that we have, Gavin Newsom, that department stores with over 500 employees have to sell gender-neutral toys or have a gender-neutral toy section, or they'll be fined hundreds of dollars.

You can't just have boys and girls toys.

I think that's bad because of government intervention in private businesses and the distortion of discrimination law. But, but also, if you're a kid and you're like 5 years old and you're going into a toy store, you're not thinking, oh my God, there's a boys section and there's a girls section. You're just a kid going in to buy toys, you know? And like everywhere these people turn, there are these political messages that they're being bombarded with. And then they start to think that the, that politics has an outsized influence in their lives when it doesn't.

Yep. That's why I say what I say about the homeschool kids. The jaded is the most obvious. And you're right, Jack is not jaded.

Do you fear that as they get older?

No. No.

Why?

Because—

and why do you think religion is the antidote? We're talking about all of these things that contribute to the jadedness. Why? Why does religion not?

Well, when you're their age, it's a buffer between you and society. I mean, just Very specifically, religious kids don't have drag queens in their lives. I mean, think of the things that do tear you away from non-jadedness, from a happy-go-lucky view of life. What a jaded is— you're coarsened. A jaded kid isn't going to go, wow, what a gorgeous sunset. Right? A jaded kid is not gonna say that. And we're so jaded that there are a lot of adults listening who might even think, I want a kid who goes, what a gorgeous sunset. And the answer is yes. Not only that, you want an adult who says, what a gorgeous sunset. But anyway, religion, it doesn't allow you the things that rob this from you. That's not the only reason, but that is a big reason. They will not have a drag queen story hour, religious kids in religious schools, Catholic, Protestant, or Jewish. I mean, they're just not going to have it. So that protects them. Second, they know that there is something else to life. And that's big.

Oh, it's ever— I think it's everything.

Okay, might be everything that, you know, there's God, there's Bible, and that's, that's a big protector. It did with me. I, I was not jaded. I, I was bushy-tailed or whatever, wide-eyed and bushy-tailed about life. I wasn't a happy kid, but I wasn't a jaded kid. I'm talking about very young, because starting teens I got quite happy, starting at 14. And the religion was a huge factor in all of this. You march to the beat of a different drummer if you're a religious kid. People, you know that I read on my radio show, you will love this, oh, this will be You'll probably want to do a Timeless on this. So Pew, which is not liberal, not conservative.

I really like Pew, I gotta say.

Yes, Pew is a serious research institute that does polling in a very serious way. So according to the latest report, this was in NPR, which is left-wing, okay? So just want people to understand I didn't get this from some right-wing source. National Public Radio. According to Pew, the largest single group, religiously speaking, today, for the first time in American history, is nones. N-O-N-E-S. People who have no religion.

It's like, no, I know.

That's why I spell it. They have people who have no religion.

Yeah.

So, so I think it goes like 29% no religion. Catholics and evangelicals split 25 or so each way. And, and so what is that, 30, 55, uh, 80, so that the other 20% is scattered among a whole bunch of other groups. So most people don't read whole articles. I do because of my fourth paragraph from the bottom Prager theory of articles. You will find the gems at the end.

That's good.

And you know why? I even have a theory on that. Because so often it runs against what that— most of our sources of the old mainstream media are on the left, but they can't not report what the report was. This was the— so NPR waits till the near end Dennis Prager to drop the following bombshell. I remember the guy's name, Smith. So whatever, I don't remember his first name. So Smith, the person who directed this study for Pew, said, well, and that it does make a difference because overwhelmingly the nuns are active liberals and Democrats. Big— we'll get back to that if we want. Bigger bombshell, one sentence. And Smith added that the nuns were much less likely to volunteer time to help people than the religious ones. Folks, are you ready to lose weight but not sure where to start? So I'd like to tell you why I chose PhD Weight Loss and Nutrition. First, Dr. Ashley Lucas has her PhD in chronic disease and sports nutrition. The program is completely science-based. The PhD program starts with nutrition and is a lot more than that. They know that 90% of permanent change comes from the mind, and they work on eliminating the reasons you gained the weight in the first place. There are no shortcuts, no pills, no injections, just solid science-based nutrition and behavior change. It's worked for me. It has worked for my colleagues, Seb Gorka and Mike Gallagher. If you are ready to lose weight for the last time, call 864-644-1900, 864-644-1900 to get started, or online at myphdweightloss.com and do what I and so many others do and so many others did, in fact, and that's just make an appointment for your one-on-one consultation. It's free. Call today, 864-644-1900. One sentence on like the most important point you could possibly make. In other words, religious people are better than non-religious people as a general rule. There are always exceptions, but as a general rule, and it's there.

Always behave better.

Behave better. Yes. Well, that's all that— that's what makes you better, right? Not do you mean well. Everybody means well. So it was fascinating. My rule is read to the end of the article.

Yeah.

You don't know what you'll find. And there it was for you. Religion. Jaded people don't volunteer time.

Well, you know what? I think I'm trying to focus on this idea of what is it about religion that makes you non-jaded, jaded compared to not having a religious life or worldview. And I think it's because at the center of religion— and by the way, I just want to say neither Dennis nor I are religious absolutists. You and I criticize the way that religion has been done all of the time.

Right.

So this is a generalization, but clearly we're truth seekers. Right.

And these are truths.

Right. And I think it's because at the center of religion, is a loving, good God who will punish evil and reward goodness.

Well, at the center of Jewish and Christian, or the biblical religions, right? Yeah, I just want to make that clear.

And I think that precludes you from being jaded, because what are the tentacles of jadedness?

They're, you know, well, good God governs the universe is going to keep you from being jaded.

Yes. Because, you know, right. You know, no matter how bad life gets or no matter how discouraged or disappointed or upset or you feel or how unfair you think something is, you know, at the center there's, there's, there's like an ultimate blank slate that will judge you based on goodness and your goodness and will judge the those who are evil appropriately. And that's such a nice thing to have that because otherwise, of course, you become jaded. If you don't think there's any ultimate justice or any ultimate people—

Right. I would be jaded.

Who's going to reward you for your goodness?

The bad don't suffer and the good do. How does that not make you jaded?

And when you're jaded, you kind of throw your hands in the air and you go, well, everything is crap anyways. I might just wallow in my jadedness.

There's no hope.

And religion provides you with hope. Yes, religion provides you with hope.

There was a model, an Australian model, this was in the Daily Mail, who apparently has written like 28 reasons, or maybe, I don't know, 70 even. I'm not joking. I mean, a vast number of reasons not to have children. By the way, that's jaded.

Of course.

That's a perfect example. Not, oh, I don't care if I get married. I don't want children. That's jaded.

Look at what they're doing in Israel. I mean, if there's any people who might feel, you know, jaded or feel scared about having children, it's the Israelis right now. But they're— but they're— I was just reading this article that there are all of these kind of like shotgun marriages that are happening in Israel where people are getting married. Yeah, and they're wanting to have kids because they're realizing— talk about civilization builders.

That interest.

Yeah, uh, one— I was gonna say her name, but one of the— our Shabbat dinner, uh, people, the one who makes the challah, sent it to me.

Really?

Yeah, I told you about this. Yeah, well, how these— these Israel marriage has gone up because people—

this is such a Jewish— these are secular Jews, not just religious Jews. Jews in Israel you're talking about.

Yeah.

It's such a Jewish response. Things are bad.

It's beautiful.

Have a baby.

It's really beautiful.

I mean, if they— if it's the opposite of what we're doing. Well, oh, oh, climate change. Don't have a baby.

They're having babies.

I assure you, Hamas is a bigger threat than climate change.

Yes, it is. You know, sometimes, Dennis, I, I, I have a slight concern that we talk about God and religion too much on this show.

I have no such concern. I know you don't. Well, I—

the reason why I said slight concern—

no, no, I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying I don't.

I know, but the reason why I said slight is because, uh, A, I know that we— I mean, we've gone weeks where we don't— we, we do full episodes where we don't ever say the word God or religion. And also, even if we do every week do that, people need more of this. But, but anyway, I, I was— sometimes I think like, do we talk about God and religion too much? But I really think it's the basis of everything. That's what I said a few moments ago. And you are just a happier, more principled, healthier person when you pursue this than if you don't. That doesn't mean it can't be done wrong. Of course it can be done wrong. And of course that means, you know, it doesn't mean that some religious people are bad.

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Boilerplate.

I acknowledge my white privilege and that we're probably on indigenous land. Like, you to put, right, you know, all of the disclaimers through. But like, think about— I mean, I think about this a lot with, with this show and with Timeless. You know, sometimes when I say things that I know are gonna get me in trouble or going to be deemed as controversial or may just, you know, you get it, when you say things that you know aren't gonna go over well, I think about God and I think about, okay, well, God's judging me. These people who are listening, if they hate me, they're not judging me. And if God knows that this is true and this is good, that's— it's like God is a shield for you, you know? And I can't tell you how empowering of a feeling that is. And that, that pushes me and makes me braver to, to go to places that I otherwise wouldn't have gone to if I didn't have that belief. And I think a lot of what we're seeing now is so interconnected. I think the unhappiness and the high rates of suicide and depression come from the fact that we have a God-sized hole in our society, as Pascal would say. I think these radical race and gender laws and theories come from that. Everything goes back to it. I mean, that's your, that's your whole theory that a lot of what we're seeing is the consequences of secularism.

Oh, that's my, That's my whole— Sean has a point. He thinks— go ahead— he thinks it's related to baseball in some way. Go ahead. I was joking about that. Yeah, when you grow up in religion, God is the center of the universe and not you. I'm repeating, which keeps you from being self-centered and a victim and jaded. I think that is true. I agree. It also, yes, I mean, if you believe so deeply in the existential threat of climate change, existential means threat to the existence of, which is what they're taught. So you're 15 years old, 20 years old, you believe that you have no future. You will be essentially incinerated by heat. Versus the religious kid who is thinking, you know, it's hard for me to believe, not because God will protect us from climate change, but it's hard for me to believe that I will give up on life because of climate change. Again, I'll have a child. I will still get married. They don't, though. One of the most— I think the most important hour of radio I did in the last, last year was about a piece in The New York Times, opinion piece about not having children because of climate change. And what was important were the comments. I told you, I always read comments. And you can't comment in the New York Times and many places unless you're a subscriber. So all the comments were from subscribers. Not only do I look at them, I don't look at all of them, there must have been 3,000 comments literally, but I check off in the New York Times case, reader's pick. In other words, the ones that readers said are the best comments. I always go in that order.

That's a good tip.

Oh yes, it's a very good one. Then I know what everybody at the New York Times liked.

Right.

And one after another, you know what it was? Well, you know, my daughter is not having kids because of climate change. I can't tell you how much I have wanted grandchildren, but I support her. That was what me— or my son. That was what almost every single one of the early The top most popular comments were, I support my child's decision not to have a child. That isn't cynical. That isn't jaded. The world is so sucks that I won't have— I support my child's decision not to have a child. And the religious person looks at you, what are you, out of your mind? And by the way, the answer is yes, they are out of their mind.

Just for the record, you know, there's, there's a huge epidemic of demoralization.

That's right.

Where—

that's a great line— where the epidemic of demoralization. I think you should write a column on that. I'm not kidding.

Thank you. Yeah, that's a good— yes, good.

It's a very good idea. I would go further. It's a pandemic.

Do you want to explain the difference?

Yes. Oh, epidemic is localized. Pandemic is worldwide. And this is worldwide.

Well, yeah, that's true. It is worldwide. But I, I would focus more on the United States.

That's fine.

I hear you.

No, no, no. It doesn't matter if you call it epidemic or pandemic.

Right.

Yeah.

But, you know, climate, people being fearful of their future, not having kids because of climate change is one example. Another example that fascinates me is that people still use TikTok. Even though it is widely known that the Chinese Communist Party is behind it and spying on us and stealing our data. And that, that is scary because that shows that we, like the, the China, the CCP doesn't even have to hide that it's spying on us and that it's infiltrating into our culture. They know, they do it right in front of our faces and they know that we don't care in relation to what? To demoralize us. Demoralization. They know that we are so demoralized and they know that we're so jaded and we're so out to lunch that they can literally in front of our faces spy on us and we don't care. We don't care. Like when people, like I'll see this, you know, when the stuff came out about Joe Biden and the Hunter Biden emails where it was found that several foreign nationals connected with authoritarian governments, including the CCP, gave millions of dollars to Hunter Biden, which was then, you know, given to other Biden family members. And then that whole line, 10% to the big guy, there's evidence that it went to Joe Biden. There's all this evidence that they have taken bribes from foreign governments and nationals, and people just don't care. Like, they literally— like, I'll tell it to you and they'll be like, oh yeah, well, that's bad. But like, you know, I'm sure that happens a lot. It's like, where's your fire? You know, like, I'll talk to people and I'll be like, you know, the Chinese Communist Party is stealing your— I think it was Joe Rogan went through the terms and conditions of TikTok and it was like they take— they can get into your camera, they take your file names, they can get access to your financial records. People know this and they don't care. They're demoralized. They don't— like, I'll talk to people about the gender-neutral toy thing and I'll go, doesn't it bother you that the government is now trying to control— I mean, not trying, is controlling private businesses and telling them what to do, and that they're pushing all this radicalism on children. And you get this zombie-like, zombie-like resigned answer. And I read this article by Yuri Bezmenov, who— or I think it was someone summarizing Yuri Bezmenov. He was that KGB defector who talked about the 1980s in the 1980s. And I think he, he lived in Canada. Sean, can you look him up? Yuri Bezmenov. I think he defected and he lived in Canada.

But Sean, B-E-Z-W-Q-T-R-N-I-Z-T. He wants me to know that while I was messing with him, he typed it correctly.

Good.

That's an achievement. That was an achievement.

Canada, right? KGB. Yep. Okay. So every— maybe I'll send the article and have Sean link it in the description. But it's this article where Yuri Bezmenov is exposing the Soviet Union's plan, right, to infiltrate the United States.

Come true.

Everything he says has come true. And the final step is demoralization. And that's what we're in now, where the population doesn't care that their civilization, their country is going to crap. They just wallow in it and, and they, they just take it.

I don't— boy, now that you mention demoralization in that context, I ask on my show regularly, how do people in San Francisco or Chicago stepping over fecal matter?

Yes.

Keep voting Democrat.

Is this demoralization?

And the answer is they don't think anything matters.

Yes.

We— to watch your— these are beautiful cities. To watch your city become literally an asshole. Literally. And you're not angry? That's jaded and demoralized. So now I understand where you were going with this. That, that's a very interesting and frightening thought.

I mean, I will—

where is your— forgive me, but Dennis Prager here with a man I have come to admire for his work. So when I asked him, what do you do? This is the title he gave: Wealth Architect.

Very simply put, I am a wealth architect that helps my clients accelerate the way they grow your wealth. It's not how much you make, it's how much you keep. The Internal Revenue Code is embedded with a number of things that you can take advantage of. It's what I call playing tax chess. We take the time to play tax chess in your favor. We give our clients unbiased, independent advice across all areas in their financial life because we have no incentive to sell anything.

I was taken enough and impressed enough to have you do my work. And you have in fact saved me a serious amount of money. CharlesDombeck.com/Prager. Where is your anger? And then you realize their anger is at those of us who point it out.

Yeah. And why is that?

Because they want to live in the cataclysmic Sorry.

In these, they want to live in bleep.

No, no, they, they don't want to live in it. They want to live without caring about it. They don't want— people don't want to be bothered by bad. They're prepared to be bothered by the anti-bad. This, this is a theme of my whole life. I— it's— it— this is what it was. The people on both liberal and left, they weren't anti-communist. Liberals were more so, they were anti-communist. But leftists, of course, were pro-communist. But when I was already young, liberals being anti-communist was true for some period of time. But already in my younger days, they became not so much anti-communist, which is as noble as anti-Nazi, but they became anti-anti-communist.

Interesting.

That's very interesting.

This is very important.

Yes, just like what I said about San Francisco. They're not angry at their mayors. They're not angry at the parties 100% responsible for it.

They're angry at those who pointed out Okay, I'm so with you because objectively it is true. You know, when people like— I have been, you know, called names because I'm against gender-affirming care for minors. And it's like, wait a minute, you're not angry that they're trying to trans the kids. You're angry at me for trying to— for telling you that's correct. They're trying to trans the kids.

You got it as usual.

Yes, I got it. But I want to get it more. That's— it's clearly happening. But my question is why? Why you said they don't—

people want to ignore evil.

But what if they're— but the thing I don't get, forgive me, is you're living in a city where you are— look, you're right, people matter is getting on you. It's affecting you.

Yeah, well, it would have to affect them in such a way so deeply.

Yeah, that's true.

No pun intended. That they, they, they couldn't any longer ignore it. But by that time, it's too late. It's like we don't want to be bothered by Lenin or by Stalin. And then they come knocking on your door and take you to the Gulag. It's too late. That was the great line.

Or Solzhenitsyn.

No, no, not Solzhenitsyn's line. Maybe he had one similar. But the great line of the pastor— was it Niemöller? Who? There were two really famous pastors in the Nazi era. Who was the one that Erich Metaxas wrote the—

Bonhoeffer.

Bonhoeffer, right. Thank you. It wasn't Bonhoeffer, it was Niemöller, correct. Okay. Pastor Niemöller is the author. He was a German pastor. And he, I'm paraphrasing, but this is essentially what he said. First they came after the communists. I wasn't a communist, so I didn't say anything. Then they came after the labor unions. I wasn't in a labor union. I didn't say anything. Then they came after the Jews. I wasn't a Jew, so I didn't say anything. Then they came after me, and there was nobody left to speak out for me.

Hmm.

So, you know, the people don't want to confront evil. And I wrote a piece years ago. People could look it up on the internet. I think the title was something to the effect, The Left Fights Statues, The Right Fights Evil. See? Oh, so you tore down a Thomas Jefferson statue.

Biden just removed the one in Arlington National Cemetery. The—

I didn't know that.

Yes. A month ago. I forget what the statue is called. It was after the Civil War and it was a unity statue. And it— and basically the inscription was— this is— I'm paraphrasing, but this is dedicated to people who fought for what they— what they believed was right. Americans on both sides who—

Lincoln's motto. What is it? To— it's the Reconciliation Memorial. Okay. Thank you. What was Lincoln's motto? Not to show, not hubris, but charity towards all, that even if you fought for slavery, which is what the Southern fight was about, let's just, let us make a United States of America and not bear ill will because we have to forge a good country.

And it's about alternative. It's about weighing the two options. Okay. In a perfect world, would I punish, you know, would Lincoln want to punish and have no malice?

I think that's what he said.

Rancor. Yeah, that is what he said. In a perfect world, would he probably want malice and punishment to be funneled at every person who supported the evil of slavery? Yes. But again, people don't get like, you can't create a perfect world. What, what is, what is going to work out best for the country if we wallow in this or if we move on? And even when moving on requires giving a pass to some really terrible people, that is what he understood because he had wisdom.

With your line, you can't create a perfect world.

Well, right.

You know what I played off my show recently? Arguably the stupidest lyrics of any song ever written, at least in the English language. Imagine. Imagine.

I knew you were going to say it.

Well, of course you knew I was going to say it because you probably agree.

I do agree. Oh, imagine there's no heaven.

No heaven. Yes.

Wait, I don't want to imagine there's no heaven. I want to imagine there is a heaven.

Beyond belief. No, no, no.

Hell below us, above us only sky.

No, hell is disturbing. It's disturbing to me is no heaven. I agree. Wait, so wait, so Hitler and Pol Pot don't, don't, don't go to hell? They— what do they have after life? Oh, and what about no countries? How's that?

No religion too? Nothing to— no, nothing to kill or die for? No religion? So what is it, nothing? Are we all just like mashed potatoes?

Isn't that—

what is—

talk about jaded.

Yeah, well, boy, this demoralization.

You know, I'm reading through the New Testament. Yeah, I just read it through it, every word again. Now I'm doing a lot of studying because—

how many Jews are doing that?

Religious Jews at that.

Yeah.

But I'm going to be again participating with Jordan Peterson in Bible study. So we're going to be—

so cool.

We're doing the Gospels. We did Exodus. It's up at Daily Wire for those who want to watch it. And it's got millions of views, which is very heartening. So there's a line in the New Testament It's got to be one of my favorites. Those who don't work won't eat. I wish, you know, all these Christian liberals who, you know, who cite the New Testament to support their cockamamie views, in my opinion, why don't they cite that one? You know, if you're healthy and you don't work, why should we feed you? And this— did you, did you know that that quote is in there? Isn't that mind-blowing?

But where is it?

Oh, I don't know. It's one of Paul's lines. I don't remember in one of the letters, but there, you know, most of the New Testament is letters after the Gospels, except for Acts and Revelation. So it's really— I, I, I, I knew that line before, but when I came across it again, that's the way it should be. But we, we in this bizarre notion, will feed you anyway. You don't work, but we'll feed you. It's not— you don't make a civilization that way. You— and the— in a sense, the proverb in the Old Testament, spare the rod, spoil the child, is similar to what Paul says about about the— about not eating if you don't work. The realistic approach toward human nature produces much more goodness than this romanticized nonsense about human nature. Yes, children have to be disciplined. That's what it means. Whether it's meant literally, you know, you use a rod or not, And by the way, did you know this is really— that would be a fun subject for one of our podcasts. I did a show a few times. This is why I love talk radio, because I learned so much from people. There's no other possibility of my doing this if I didn't have a talk show. Raise an issue and have people from every background in life answer me. I mean, it's like a dream come true. So I asked if your parents, if your parent or parents used corporal punishment on you, how do you regard that now?

Oh gosh, is that interesting. What did they say?

Every single caller said it was a good thing they did. So there wasn't one.

And now get ready for a headline about you.

Well, by the way, this is a guy who did he didn't use it on his own kids. And I'm not sure I was right. I asked the question because I really wanted to, to get an honest answer. And now, there are— there obviously it could be overdone, but of course that's true. I'm not talking about beating a child, of course, but, you know, a few whacks. I don't know, with a ruler, uh, that's what nuns were known for, uh, or, or, uh, The, the thing that I did say and still say, the issue is not physical punishment. The issue is humiliation. That's wrong. That's why no spanking, if that's what it is, should ever be done on a bare buttock. That's humiliating.

That's degrading.

That's the great— that you— and that there's no dignity that you, you have robbed your child of dignity, and that's bad.

Yes.

But, uh, but, uh, the— so the hitting is not an issue. I, you know, people go, what do they have today? Your kid acts out, I mean, in a really bad way, take a timeout. So what, they retreat to their bedroom, which is like the museum of toys? Gender neutral? I've never— yes, of course. I've never understood why go to your room in the modern age is a punishment. Go to your room is a sort of reward.

Well, I think for, for people, it's like your parent, you know, it's more that, you know, your parents are upset with you and want to, and are trying to give you time to reflect.

Let's, let's do that. We've run out of time, but that's worthy. I wonder how many kids even care if their parents are upset anymore.

Oh God, I cared so much.

Oh, you did?

It was horrible when they were upset. It was the worst feeling in the world.

I don't know if parents are so not held in the same respect you held yours or I held mine. It, it's like telling people today the police are upset with you. That meant something. For all of American history.

It means nothing to them because, going back to this theme, nothing matters anymore, right? And I think a lot of that has to do with the absence of God.

Feelings matter.

Yes. What God teach— like, the thing I love about the Bible is they say you're created in the image and likeness of God. That is a beautiful statement, and it's really cool to, to feel that in yourself. And, and also, as corny as it sounds, when I look at other people, I think that of them. I think that our individual decisions have consequence. They have consequence because someone is watching and someone is going to tally up at the end of your life all of what you did well and all of what you didn't do well and make a judgment. You literally believe that whether you like it or not, there is an ultimate purpose in life because you're going to be judged. And in the secular realm, you don't have any of that. What is, what is your incentive to behave well? Why wouldn't you steal? Why wouldn't you be angry? Why wouldn't you wallow? Why wouldn't you succumb to video games?

Data on who volunteers more.

And why wouldn't you be demoralized? Like, why would you care about crap on your street? Or why would you care? You just, you just have this, well, whatever, I'm going to die anyway. And then I'm going to be, I'm going to be out of here in, you know, 50 years.

I don't live down.

It'll be done. Right.

That's the point. I don't live, I don't live there.

Right.

Well, Jules.

Oh gosh, I have more I want to say, but this is, this is the problem with Dennis and Julie. We always have more we want to say.

Thank God.

Right. That's true. It's the good thing about Dennis Prager.

All right, tell them.

I know what you're saying, but why don't you say it?

Because we just— julie@julie-artman.com. Wait, I want to answer her question. I don't say it because A, you'll do it better than I will.

There's a tradition and we're conservatives and we love tradition.

B, there's a tradition. Thank you.

Yes. Okay. I'll conserve the tradition. julie@julie-artman.com is my email. Love hearing from you. You can also follow me on Instagram and Twitter @JulieRHarman. You can follow Dennis @TheDennisPrager on Instagram and Dennis Prager on Twitter. Goodbye.

Goodbye. Oh yeah, he's annoyed you didn't say shalom.

Someone wrote it.

Your beloved dog and a stranger are both drowning. You can only save one. Who do you save? Every time Dennis Prager asks that question, his audience splits three ways. One-third chooses the dog, one-third chooses the stranger, and one-third aren't sure.

Why?

Because we live in an age where increasingly feelings define right and wrong. But if morality is based on emotion, then murder, rape, and theft are just opinions. And if people feel justified, why is rioting or destruction wrong at all? In his new book, If There Is No God, Dennis Prager explains why civilizations cannot survive without objective morality and why Judeo-Christian Values shape the moral foundations of the free world.

If you claim that certain things are good, certain things are evil, independent of how you feel about it, you are in effect affirming God.

If There Is No God by Dennis Prager, available now at PragerStore.com. That's PragerStore.com.