Un-Presidented Trump “The Felon”

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Hi everybody, Dennis and Julie. Dennis Prager and Julie Hartman. Where did I just get some really nice feedback? Oh, I told you, a lot of young people at this talk I gave at synagogue about a week ago in L.A.

They were so happy to hear that.

Yeah, it was very, it was very moving, actually. So you said to me right before we went on that people have been wondering why we have not talked about the Trump trial. So we will— not the whole segment, but we will, because there are huge issues involved here. But I, I do want to note that there's an answer to the question, why haven't we? One is logistics, because when we record this, it may not have happened. But the bigger reason is We're not news-driven. Dennis and Julie's just— it's not good or bad, it's just, it's just a fact. We're not news-driven as a general rule. Obviously, big, big issues that occur, we, we, we have addressed. And both you and I in, in separate media do address these. You, right, on Timeless. And, and me and on my radio show. So it's just, people should know that we have sort of reserved Dennis and Julie to explore life. Now forgive me, but I mean, if a comet hits Manhattan, we'll cover it. And by the way, in a certain sense, a comet did hit Manhattan.

Oh yes. Well, I'm glad that you clarified. Very well said. The first thing was just logistically, the last time we filmed Dennis and Julie was actually on the day of the Trump conviction. And when we stopped filming that episode, we pulled out our phones and the news had just broken 15 minutes before. So this is our first time filming Dennis and Julie since then. And second, you're right. I, I've been thinking a lot about this show and our respective shows. And unsurprisingly, we're very similar with, with our approaches. But you and I, we care about news, but we care about values far more. And we— and on this show, what we really endeavor to do is explore life. For instance, I was rewatching some Dennis and Julie's, and we did a whole episode in December, right before Christmas, about Judaism and Christianity, how Judaism benefits from Christianity and Christianity benefits from Judaism. So I want people to know that we're— this, this show is in pursuit of truth, beauty, and goodness, in pursuit of applying Judeo-Christian values to life. But we're not always going to, you know, bring up the most topical news. But we should talk about this.

Oh, well, we will.

This Trump conviction.

I just want to address that topic for a moment. It's not at all that either of us is not preoccupied with what is happening in the world.

Oh, of course we are.

This is very important. In fact, I'm actually annoyed with people who are not keeping up with what's happening.

Yes.

My son Aaron, who does a wonderful— and I wouldn't say it if I didn't believe it.

It's true. People should check it out.

It's AP Unfiltered. Aaron Prager, AP Unfiltered. It's one word. And he says in every show, it's a very— it's an original point. He says it is a moral and American obligation to keep up with the news.

Yes, that's right.

It's a very, very—

and we do—

important.

We do on our own shows. I mean, my gosh, all day on Timeless and all day on the Dennis Prager Show. That's what we do. But this show we try to reserve for values and for Right. But evergreen.

But it's clear we have to, of course, address certain issues and apply the values to given issues.

Yes.

I certainly have talked on this show about the, the support for the unprecedented level of support for evil in the West with regard to Gaza and Israel. It's, it's a turning point in Western history.

You know, so many Dennis quotes I think of on a daily basis.

Yeah.

When, as I tell you, when I get annoyed when I'm driving, I think, if nothing's horrific, life is terrific. You're—

Yeah, that's a truism.

It is. Your great lines are on repeat, always in my head. But there's been another one that's especially been on repeat in the wake of our martyr being martyred. Trump, the conviction on last Thursday, and of course, the ongoing tragedies with the Israel-Gaza war. I've been thinking about what you say about evil, that evil isn't dark. It's so bright that people don't want to face it. It's a very sobering thing. And I'm discovering, you know, I, I'm really, really realizing this. As I'm getting older, and I'm 24 years old, as I'm growing even more intellectually, professionally, personally in my life, I am coming to see just how much evil exists in the world and how so much more comforting it would be to turn our attention away from it. But right now, I really believe that we are in a civilizational moment. We are at a moment that isn't left versus right, liberal versus conservative, Democrat versus Republican. I do think we're Democratic Party versus America moment, but we'll put that aside for a moment. We are in a civilizational versus anti-civilizational moment in the United States and globally. And we have to face that evil that the anti-civilizational camp is spreading.

That is left versus right. That's what you said. It wasn't.

Well, I sort of— I more so mean— well, actually, I will. It is a leftist versus non-left, non-leftist, but it's not liberal versus conservative.

No, correct.

That's what— that's what I mean. You know, this is no longer— I played a— I played a video on my show of the Nixon-Kennedy debate in 1960.

And you could cry.

Yes. And this is what I mean when I just said it's not liberal versus conservative anymore. When they were debating in 1960, they were debating about truly liberal versus conservative things. For instance, they were talking about public sector unionization. That's a very liberal versus conservative thing about whether to further or not further the Vietnam War, about abortion, pro-choice versus pro-life, or liberal versus conservative differences. When I am trying to say right now is that we're no longer in that moment where we're fighting about those things. We are fighting about civilizational versus anti-civilizational things. Having police and law enforcement and incarcerating criminals for crime, that's not liberal or conservative. That's civilizational. Punishing and condemning Hamas is not liberal versus conservative. It's civilizational. Having a border is not liberal versus conservative. It's civilizational. The proof of it is that 20 years ago, Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi and Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton were all talking about illegal aliens. They—

and using that, using that word, we—

the Democratic Party has become a leftist party. And leftism is the greatest threat to America. It is the greatest threat to our world. And this is the civilizational moment we find ourselves in.

That's my understanding of planet Earth at this time. So with regard to the Trump trial, I don't know where to start. The, the, the fact that it took place, the fact that it was handled the way it was, the fact of the verdict Just one little example. It is repeated ad nauseam that he was indicted on 34 counts. The 34 counts are one act, but every time he made a payment to his lawyer, that's considered another count. But it's the exact same thing he paid for. As I've said on my radio show, if he had made 365 payments for the one thing, the hush money payment, he would have been indicted 365 times. And this, this is what the New York Times, which has become a farce— the paper is a farce. The paper is basically Harvard in print.

I'm sorry, you don't need to apologize.

You're right. I feel I need to because it's worthy of its own discussion. It really is, because Saying you went to Harvard for all of Harvard's history was such a prestigious—

oh, I could really speak about it.

I would like to.

I worked my tail off to get into that.

That's right. No, no, I actually, I feel bad for people like you in that regard. I mean, your life is blessed, but I do feel bad. They, they have taken money and made it counterfeit.

That's right. Well said. Very well said. That's exactly— that's that. That really—

it hits the nail on the head. Don't forget, that's a really important point.

I'll put it in my notebook.

It works out in that regard. I'm thrilled you went to Harvard because it really— it does address the issue. I'm more plebeian, I went to Columbia, which is, I mean, that it's a farce, Columbia is known, I mean, it's worse than a farce. I mean, it's, Manhattan, the greatest concentration of Jews outside of Tel Aviv, and Columbia is there and it's a hotbed of Jew hatred. The whole thing is mind-boggling.

Oh, I know, I was there. I was there.

Oh, that's right.

I was in Europe at campus standing in front of a guy who had a, sign that said Israel equals Nazis, and he was yelling about how Jews have a diabolical agenda to bring back witchcraft— back— and child sacrifice to the United States. Anyway, the Trump trial, you were saying.

I just wonder how we knew that, because I'm Jewish, and I thought it was a secret that we're bringing witchcraft and sacrifice back. But anyway, so that is an example. The examples are legion. What we had in the Trump trial, the first such trial in American history of the head of the opposition, a candidate, the candidate for presidency and former president being potentially sent to jail, tried on, on, on nothing, truly nothing. Do you know, I watched Piers Morgan. It was fascinating. Did I mention this to you?

No.

Oh, you've got to watch it then. It was Michael Knowles of Daily Wire was on, a lawyer was on, and a woman lefty. And Piers Morgan, who is quite centrist to the extent that centrists exist, and I think he is one, he just asked her, so what would— I'm curious, what is the crime that Donald Trump allegedly committed and was found guilty for? She could not answer the question because it's not answerable.

It's not. The whole thing was bogus and phony. And I on my show went through in painstaking detail what was actually alleged, what is actually— what actually constitutes a crime under the Federal Election Commission. And I went through all of these details. And it's not the most fun thing to do. But if you care to watch it, I did that for the benefit of the American people. I did the work so that you wouldn't have to, because people need to understand that hush money is not a crime. Hush money may be a morally horrible thing, but hush money— paying someone hush money is not a crime. If that were the case, trust me, Bill Clinton and Ted Kennedy and many other politicians, Democrat and Republican, would be convicted of such a crime.

You have what clip ready? Oh yeah. Where he's asking the woman, Piers Morgan. Okay, so Julie, he's going to play this.

Panelist here is celebrating that the rule of law has been vindicated and overturned 234 years of American legal tradition. I would challenge her to see if she could possibly articulate how and what crime Trump committed, because so far Alvin Bragg, the DA, has failed to do so. The judge in the case, Judge Merchan, has failed to do so, and they can't do it because Trump didn't commit any of the crimes for which he's been convicted.

Well, let's just ask quickly before I go to Kelly.

She's— Francesca, you saw that point.

What crime did Trump commit?

Nervous. Quite. Yes, it was.

It was campaign. It was financial crimes. It was white-collar crimes. It was exactly what they charged him.

It was—

he was convicted on.

What was the crime?

It's New York state law.

I understand. What was the crime?

Oh, God bless.

I don't even like it. It is— well, hang on.

Hang on.

He just got convicted on 34 counts.

Francesca, what was the crime?

Of like cooking the actual books.

What was the crime?

You are not allowed. So you are not allowed to, to use your own financial, like your own money to pay off somebody. And then he wrote, he logged it as something different. He logged it as just a regular payment, but he was actually paying off this porn star to keep quiet, which if he hadn't been running for president would not have mattered. But he was. And so it impacted campaign finance laws in New York State. Okay, that is what— Juan Guaidó just oversaw this. Alan Bragg brought these charges because Michael Cohen was already sentenced to 3 years to do it.

Okay, let's just go before—

Kevin, I'll be very, very patient. I will come to you.

Look, I'm no expert. Let me just say, hang on.

That's federal law.

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Listen, I am fascinated by the law, constitutional law, all of that. I did an episode after the hilarious and saddening testimonies before Congress of Claudine Gay and Liz McGill and the other presidents. And I talked about if calling for the genocide of Jews actually does violate the First Amendment. And I went through and looked at that. So check those episodes out if you're interested. But let me tell you, in a few sentences what really happened here. Trump in 2016 paid hush money. It's true to Stormy Daniels through his lawyer, Michael Cohen. And they cited that payment as a legal fee. District Attorney Alvin Bragg, a.k.a. Mr. Get Trump, took that and said that that is a falsification of business records. Now, let's pause right there. Falsification of business records. A, people do that all the time. That doesn't make it okay, but people do do that all the time. And B, that's a misdemeanor under New York law, not a felony. To ratchet it up to a felony—

the statute of limitations is over for misdemeanors.

That's right. To ratchet it up. And I've done a lot of work to really understand this and to succinctly say it because people need to know the truth. They do. In order to ratchet it up to a felony, he needed to show that the falsification of business records was to conceal another crime. And that crime that he conjured up in his legal gymnastics was campaign finance violation, because the Trump Organization, a corporation, cannot make a campaign contribution. They're saying that they made a campaign contribution because paying Stormy Daniels to be quiet benefited the campaign. And then when they mislabeled or when they falsified the business records by calling it a legal fee, they were concealing that it was a campaign contribution. If this doesn't make sense to you, it means you have a clear mind because they— the legal gymnastics that they undertook are so crazy. So I want the listener to know, please, If you didn't follow what I just said, that, that, that's a good sign. I read a DEI statement on my show and it was like the white supremacy, the patriarchy and the intersection of blah blah blah. And I read that and I said, if that didn't make sense to you, you have a clear mind. If that did make sense to you, you may want to consider consulting a doctor. Okay, it's BS, it's bogus. And then on top of that, the conduct—

I would— the only thing I would change is you may want to consider consulting a rabbi, priest, or minister.

That's right.

Because it's a moral problem. If you understand that, people get it. It's not a mental problem.

You either— here's the deal with this whole thing. No, you either get it or you don't.

It's— folks, the United States of America did something that We have always identified with tyrannies and dictatorships.

That's right.

With banana republics where you jail the opposition leader. That's all this was. That is all it is. And 100%, that is all it is. Every time that China jails a dissident or the Soviet Union sent a dissident to, to the gulag, they always had a trial. There was all— well, no, gulag, they just round you up, but But they frequently had trials.

Yes.

So you— there was yours. You were accused of something. Obviously, you were accused of something. And this was— this was as close to a non-issue as could be in a courtroom. And the judge went along with it. And I have said— so listen to this. This is very interesting. You will find this— I know you will find this interesting. So I have said, and I continue to say, that I believe deeply that if this judge had been born in the Soviet Union, he would have served Stalin wearing his robe. I believe that because if you are corrupt as a judge for ideological reasons in a free country, You will certainly be corrupt for an ideology in a dictatorship because there, you know, you may have to do so. Here, he could have actually been a judge. He did not allow the former head of the Federal Elections Commission to testify that no federal law was violated and the whole trial is invalid. He wouldn't allow the man to testify. So listen to this. So this is the part I said I think you'll find interesting. So I periodically read Jonah Goldberg. Jonah Goldberg is a very bright guy. He wrote a very, very important book on liberalism. Are you familiar with it?

I'm familiar with him. I'm not familiar with the book.

Oh, it's— Sean, please look up Jonah Goldberg's book on liberalism and fascism. I want to give you the title.

Oh, wow.

It's a— it's an extremely important book.

I'd love to read it.

So he's turned out to— and by the way, he, he did a video for PragerU on that subject. I know Jonah pretty well, been on the show, he's done PragerU videos. Illiberal Fascism, Jonah Goldberg. It's, it's a very, very important book. So Jonah Goldberg has— did not— I don't think he became a Never Trumper. But he's no fan of Donald Trump. He's sort of in the middle between Never Trumpers and Trump supporters. And it's a little sad because we could have used his voice because he's a bright guy, as I say. So he wrote a column recently and it had nothing to do with me. I have no doubt about that. And if it did, it wouldn't change my mind. We said, so the people who were comparing Judge— what is his name?

Merchant.

Merchant.

Yeah.

Judge Merchant. Merchant to Stalin's judges. Wait, now, is— is the Judge Merchant send people to be tortured and murdered?

So we don't have the infrastructure for that.

Well, exactly.

It's so crazy.

Anyway, the judges did not send them to be tortured. They were tortured independent of the judges. So that, that's beside the point. Yes, there were times that, of course, Stalin's judges sent people to be executed. That's correct. But not every case was their execution. And when we— I'm very precise in my words. When I speak of him, of Murchin, and Stalin's judges, remember what I said. If you are corrupt for ideological reasons and you're obedient to a party in a free country, why do I suspect you will all of a sudden not be obedient to a party in a dictatorship?

That's right. Very, very important. Incredibly well said. You know, when I was in college, I developed a fascination with fascism. And just went down the rabbit holes of Stalin and Mussolini and Hitler and all of the Latin American dictators and Yugoslavia, Tito. You know, I went down the rabbit hole with all of that. And I would walk around, as weird as it sounds, and I would look at people in my classes and in my everyday life, my friends, and I would start to think in these terms of, Who would have stood up?

Mm-hmm.

Who would have been the Alexander Solzhenitsyn? Who? Or who would have been Bonhoeffer? That's right. Or who would have been, you know, the— who would have been the Yuri Bezmenovs? Who would have been the KGB defectors? And conversely, who would have been the cronies? Who would have been the Hitler youth?

So wait, you looked at your classmates?

I would look around. And by the way, I would look around at someone at the coffee shop.

Okay.

I developed this fascination because we in free society. We don't think that way because we don't have the luxury of thinking that way. But then I went, if our society were to ever turn, who around me, and I mean everyone around me, where would they go in the grand march of history? And what I wanna say right now, and it's what you said, is that right now we are finding that out.

That's right.

Seeing it now.

Okay. So this is why I adore her. So I actually literally, I'm chilled and I put up the temperature 1 degree for your sake. Thank you.

The studio's freezing.

But I am chilled. So I gave— I have said this in front of church groups to whom I've spoken and they're nights to honor Israel, which is very common among American churches. They're beautiful evenings. And the first time I spoke at Pastor Hagee's church, he's the founder of CUFI, Christians United for Israel, in San Antonio, there were a couple of thousand people there. I was the keynote speaker, and I looked at them and I said, I just want you to know, you don't know this, you— there'd be no way you would know this, but Jews tend to wonder when they meet a non-Jew, would they hide me?

Yes.

If there were another Holocaust taking place. And I want you to know, I said, I believe you would hide me.

Wow.

In 40 years of speaking, I never had as prolonged an ovation I have the chills from this, as I did when I said that. It's like they didn't stop clapping. I would— I, I thought their hands would get, would get red. There was such passion in saying, in saying to me, yes, we would hide you. When I came back to that church a year later, they were selling t-shirts, we would hide you.

Wow. You know, I think about all of the times when I was called dramatic at Harvard for calling out the wokeism. You know, I gave a speech when I was there when I was a senior, my senior speech, and I ended the speech by saying, well, I went through all of these examples of wokeism on campus and in our broader society at Harvard there for Israeli Apartheid Week. That's right, Israeli Apartheid Week when I was a senior. There was an upside down There was a painted upside-down American flag with bullet holes through it in Harvard Yard.

What did that signify?

They had these crazy things on display about Israeli apartheid. And one of the things was they had an upside-down American flag and they had painted bullet holes. And I guess they're trying to go, you know, America is a carceral state, you know, their nonsense. And I went through that and I said, Black Lives Matter has embezzled millions of dollars and we remain silent. The American Medical Association is removing gender from birth certificates, and we remain silent. Out here at Harvard Yard for Israeli Apartheid Week, there's this painted American flag with bullet holes, and we remain silent. And I said, we cannot lie to ourselves or to others that a large reason that we remain silent is because we see personal and professional advantages in doing so.

Right.

And then I ended the speech by saying, if we do not stand up to this now, our civilization will face a somber reckoning. And I remember I had friends who came and watched me deliver that speech. And you know, I have the best friends, you've met them, you're always so kind to them. And afterwards, I remember one friend said, you know, Julie, it was a good speech, but I think you were a little dramatic at the end with, you know, our civilization is going to face a somber reckoning. No. It was not dramatic. And I want to say to the people, because I was in 2016 when Trump was first running, I'm going to give myself some grace. I was 16 years old and I, you know, didn't, didn't quite know better. But I thought that Trump supporters were, you know, bigots and racists and fools and simpletons.

Right.

Simpletons.

Right.

And I want to say to those people who have been on the Trump train since it started, For all of you who have been criminalized, and I use that— we know, I mean, pro-lifers are being thrown in prison for trespassing on abortion clinics for 10 years. Criminalized, demonized, smeared, sneered at, made to feel lesser than because of who you voted for, who have lost friends and family members and children, etc. I want to say to you that this is your moment of vindication. This out of— I think your moment of vindication has been here for a long time. But I really believe the good news is that right now people are finally seeing that all of those hick, racist, horrible Trump supporters actually had a point. They actually supported this guy for some non-bigoted, non-racist reasons. So good for you, God bless you for always being on that train. And it took me until I was 20, but I'm 24 now and I am so on this train with you and we are gonna fight like hell to save this country.

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Well, I'm so bad because we got— I am not gonna—

you gotta—

I'm going to be on the right side of history. Yeah, I, you know, I am not going to be—

the right side of history is not taking a former president and the head of the opposition and trying to throw them in jail. That, that's, that's the wrong— that's the wrong side.

Do people understand how hard we've worked? I mean, for, for hundreds and hundreds of years, people sacrifice. I mean, from veterans to our founding fathers to everyday Americans who, who kept the course for hundreds of years. We have been the beneficiaries of people who passed down this great system to us, and we have taken this great system and we have squandered it.

That's right. Well, I— what keeps me sane is the belief that there is a just God. I, I— if they're not judged, then, um, uh, I'm an atheist.

So I don't mean to abruptly move on if you want to keep talking, but I, I just—

I want to repeat two things.

Sure.

The toughest question right now that you can ask after, do you believe— do you really believe men menstruate? The toughest question you can ask a left-wing member of your family is, so what were the 34 crimes he was indicted for?

Yes, that's right.

So just for the record, there was no one in America who could answer the question.

It's true.

Alvin Bragg could not answer the question. The whole thing is a gigantic fraud, but to use the courts for fraudulent ends is the— that's the end of democracy. Not the gaslighting of Trump is the end of democracy. No, no, no, it's the anti-Trump that is that, but they always do that. I learned this in college, actually graduate school, where my, you know, my field was communist history and communism. Trotsky was called a fascist by Stalin. Stalin inaugurated, well, really Lenin inaugurated by calling the Communist Party newspaper Pravda, which means truth. He, by the way, you see, this is the beauty. There's a direct line between Lenin, Vladimir Ilyich Lenin, and Jacinda, what's her name?

Ardern, my commencement speaker.

Your commencement speaker at Harvard. Yes.

The government. If you don't hear it from the government, they're not—

it's not true.

Oh, gosh. Yes.

Unless you hear it from the government, it is not true. That is exactly what Lenin said.

Yes.

There is no difference between Lenin in terms of creating a totalitarian state. Jacinda Ardern and Lenin are twins. All truth comes from Pravda, which is why we call it truth. That's what Pravda means. And all truth comes from the state. Jacinda Ardern, former prime minister of New Zealand. They're— that they are twins. They are moral political twins.

That's right.

So there is no answer to what Trump did. He was— that he was on trial is one of the darkest moments in American history. And the notion that— or not the notion, the fact that the judge was so corrupt, and the fact that people delude themselves, like at the New York Times, this delusional Pravda-like newspaper, that a prominent conservative can get a fair trial in Manhattan is like a Black could get a fair trial in the South in the 1920s.

Yep.

They have the same exact— I'm choosing my words. There is no greater chance of a conservative being judged fairly in Manhattan than a Black being judged fairly in Jim Crow Mississippi.

Oh my gosh. Hold on. This is I've learned from nearly 2 years of doing Dennis and Julie that it is wise to bring a notebook with all of the thoughts that I have.

That's good.

You used to do that too. Sometimes you would scribble a few things. I said this on your radio show about a year ago when I was guest hosting, and I got a lot of flack for it, but it's true. Putting aside disabled people and I can speak very well to this because I, as many of you know, I have a sister with very severe autism who has been in and out of government-run group homes where she's been abused and neglected and the state of California looks the other way. So putting aside disabled people who are the most discriminated against in this country, I would say the number 2 in the list are conservatives. Conservatives, besides disabled people, are the most discriminated against group in this country. It is absolutely true. A conservative cannot get get a fair trial in a blue state where, generally speaking, and in a blue city. Yes.

And so, and I'm only correcting because, no, it's New York is a blue state, but you conservative could get a fair trial in rural New York.

I'll give you, I'll give you some more examples from people who go, oh, that's dramatic. Conservatives are discriminated against. How about right now that in the state of Illinois, They are trying to amend the Abused and Neglected Child Reporting Act to change the definition of abuse to mean a parent who does not give their children, quote, gender-affirming care.

Right.

Are you telling me that's not discrimination against conservatives? How about in Washington State, where this is not a law being proposed? They already have the law that, that if your child runs away from home and goes to a shelter, the shelter does not have to report to the parents that the child ran away or where the child is if the reason for that runaway was that the parents did not affirm their gender. That is discrimination against conservatives. We see it in our schools. Ben Shapiro, when he goes to UC Berkeley, he needs hundreds of thousands of dollars in security. Show me an example. And by the way, I'm saying this earnestly, truly show me an example. I will, I will look at it of a, of a leftist. Of a leftist going to a conservative campus and having that speech restricted.

They don't need one bodyguard.

Okay, so that's the first thing I wanted to say, that conservatives are the most discriminated against group. The second thing is, you were talking, and it's so interesting to study fascism, and you did it at Columbia. That was your, you studied communism, and I know you, because we've told these stories on Dennis and Julie, you went to, Berlin during the—

East Berlin.

East Berlin. You went through Checkpoint Charlie.

They checked for a body. Was I smuggling out a human under my car? They put a mirror under the car.

You've told fascinating stories on the show about, about your travels. And I just read about this. You actually went and saw it for yourself. But what you said about how the dissidents in the Soviet Union were called fascists. By the fascists. We've talked about this here. I feel like I look around all the time and I'm in a land of inversions. The left calls conservatives or common sense people racist. They're racist. They're the ones who say finding one right answer in math is white supremacy. They're the ones that say punctuality and objectivity are white values.

Or build all black dorms or have black graduation.

Or you ain't black if you don't vote Democrat, they're racist. They say that, oh, conservatives are the patriarchal woman haters. Joe Biden was the one that upended Title IX in order to basically kill women's sports so that men can come in and take women's trophies. They're calling us women haters. They're the women haters. To your point, they always say, oh, conservatives are threats to democracy. Trump's a threat to democracy. Look at what they just did to him. We are in the age of inversion.

That's right.

But that is what fascism is.

Woe unto those who call good evil and evil good. 2,500 years ago, Isaiah.

That is what also Orwell was prescient enough to highlight by calling the ministry of truth, right?

Ministry of truth.

The ministry of truth was the ministry of lies. But you know what, the New York Times, you mentioned the New York Times, they count on the fact that the American people don't have the time, the energy, which I have sympathy for. A lot of people are just working. They don't have time to really dig up the, the facts.

Well, that's where my son Aaron's line is accurate.

That's right.

You have a moral duty to be, to be aware of what's happening.

And that's why I did it on my show because I really wanted to, to provide it in a concise way. But a lot of pe— they know they're, they're counting on the fact that most Americans don't have the time the energy and in some cases the moral will to really distinguish truth from lies. And so what they— what The New York Times did is the day after the Trump conviction, that big headline— Sean, I don't know if you have a photo of it— they had this huge picture of Trump on the COVID And guess what was in big font?

Felon.

Guilty.

Guilty.

And then the opinion page had felon. And so they're counting on the fact that the American people are just going to see that headline. You know, that's right.

And then it's just going to reinforce, oh, guilty felon, you know, 34 counts, 34, 34 counts.

But this is what they do. I'll give you another great example. Remember when the great— God, I love this guy. And he spoke at a PragerU gala, which is so cool. Ron DeSantis, the governor of Florida. Remember when he passed that bill about not allowing Florida public school children to learn about sex and they called it the Don't Say Gay Bill? Yes. This is what they do.

They take the only way people know it. They think that that's— most Americans think that's the name of the bill.

That's my— that's exactly right. That's— and so I talked about this on Timeless recently. I said they, they're very clever. You got to give them credit. They're clever.

Put it in quotes.

They know that most Americans aren't going to read the bill. And so they dub it the Don't Say Gay Bill. And then most people go around going, they don't say gay people. And they genuinely believe that the statute forbade people from not saying gay. And that's not true. But this is what they're doing with Trump. Felon, guilty, 34 counts. Don't say gay. By the way, they do it with gender-affirming care. Gender-affirming care is a term that they have come up with to conceal what is really going on, which is gender-denying abuse.

Right. It's the parent who says to the child, no, you're really a girl, who's gender-affirming, right?

Yep. This is what—

yeah, that's what I was referring to when I said felon.

Yeah.

I look at the behind bars.

Oh, and they make the Corinthian columns. They're trying to act like, oh, we're, we're America. We're putting him behind American bars. We're doing the right thing for democracy by putting him in jail.

The unanswerable is, do they believe everything they say? And I— was it you who differed with me?

Somebody said, yes, I did.

Yeah.

With you on this.

You think they don't?

I think they don't.

Yeah.

I think that— I think they— the New York Times editorial board and the New York Times a news sport. I think they know exactly what they're doing. I think everyday people, especially my age, are brainwashed. But the ones at the top, I— they know what they're doing.

So if you— if you took the editors of The New York Times individually and put them on lie detectors, you think they'd fail?

I think if we gave them 100% effective truth serum and said, is, is Donald Trump Did he actually deserve that conviction? They would say no.

Hmm.

In my opinion. You think they'd say yes?

I do. By the way, I hope you're right, because there's much greater hope for those who know they're lying than those who don't know they're lying. There's no hope for people who lie and believe their lies. The German who said Jews are untermenschen, you know, subhuman and believed it. That was the most frightening. In Incident at Vichy— are you familiar with Arthur Miller?

No.

Okay, Arthur Miller was the major, one of the 2, 3 major playwrights in mid-century America. Uh, wrote— yeah, you hear of the play Death of a Salesman? Yes, he wrote that.

Oh cool.

Yeah, so he— one of it is Incident at Vichy. Vichy was Nazi run France, occupied France. And there's a scene where a Jew is trying to escape for his life to get out of Vichy France and into basically free France. And it comes down to this. He prays he meets a corrupt Nazi because if he meets a sincere Nazi, He's doomed.

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So if the leftist is sincere, we're doomed. If he's just a corrupt liar, which many of them are, but not all, then we have a chance.

So here's something we may agree on. I think that the people at the top The ones in power, the journalists, the editorial heads, the, you know, the leaders.

They know they're lying.

They know they're lying, but they are— they are corrupt. But they are counting on the fact that their propaganda will raise a generation that is sincere.

Okay.

Well, that is what we're seeing.

No, but they're the generation that was raised. These people aren't the first generation of leftists.

They were raised. Okay, they were raised with more of a— they were not raised in the steeped-in-leftism environment that these kids are raised.

So when they say— I mean, the examples are legion— when they say men give birth. So I will tell you, I get— you know this because you went through my mail for a couple of months.

Yes.

And so I get mail, email, my public email. So it's mostly— frankly, I think it's mostly ads, but obviously listeners, a lot of listeners write. It's mostly either questions or affirmation, but there are some consistent people who loathe me. And the— it is so interesting. So here's the example. I say men give birth is a gargantuan lie. Everyone knows it's a lie. So one of the emails— I read one out of 100. There are people who've literally sent me 1,000 emails. They're stalkers. They're sort of, you know, they're not threats, but they're email stalkers. So one of them said, oh, you're lying, Dennis, about men give birth. We're not— we don't believe biological men give birth. We believe that trans men give birth. So, so that's how they get around saying men give birth. So, but, but he's fooling himself because if that's what they mean, they should say trans men give birth. They never say trans men give birth. They only say men give birth because they believe you can become a man.

That's right.

So you can't have it both ways. If you can't say I really don't believe it because what I'm really saying is a trans man can give birth. But wait a minute, then you don't believe a man can become a woman, can become a man. Then, then, you know, you can't have it both ways. Either you can become a member of the opposite sex or you cannot.

That's right.

So, so that we're, we're discussing, do they believe their lies? Do they believe Israel is committing genocide? I think it starts out as a lie. Do you know, I was just doing research, 1982. I don't know how many Palestinians were killed in the refugee camps of Sabra and Shatila. In Lebanon. I don't know if it's 1,000, 300, I don't know. But it was nothing comparable to what's been happening in Gaza. And the entire left and the whole Arab world said it was genocide. By the way, Israel didn't kill one of them. They were killed by Lebanese Christians who were so angry at the fact that that the PLO was destroying Lebanon, which it did. It did destroy Lebanon. And with Hezbollah and the Iranian-backed terrorist exterminate Israel group. So when they say genocide, if 1,000 people can be killed And even if you hold it was completely immoral, it's not genocide. I mean, if every mass killing is genocide, then you might as well argue that— remember the mass killing in Vegas, that guy in the hotel? Might as well say there was genocide in Las Vegas. So do they believe it? This is— I'm not letting that question pass because it's a very, very Good question. When Jimmy Carter said Israel's an apartheid state, which is a gigantic lie, the Arab-Israeli— and one-fifth of Israel is Arab, in other words, Palestinian— either they have full rights or Israel's an apartheid state. But they have full rights. The people who don't have full rights are the Palestinians living in the Palestinian territories, because of course they don't have full rights, because if they have full rights, they're going to blow up Jewish children in school buses and Jews dining out at a bar mitzvah, which is what they did. They slaughtered the entire Israeli Olympic team in Munich in 1972, which I would be shocked if 10 Harvard kids know that.

Oh, how about the raid on Entebbe? How about what happened with Benjamin Netanyahu's brother being the one?

Right.

Those people have no idea about what happened in Uganda with Entebbe. No idea.

That's correct.

The plane being hijacked and separating Jews from non-Jews like the Nazis did. That's right.

By the way, there were heroes there. The Air France captain.

Yes. Oh, God.

And the crew. They would not take the Air France plane back to France without all the Jewish passengers.

You know, that's how Netanyahu opens his biography. No, that's— he opens it with— if I remember, I read it like 6 months ago or something before October 7th. I read it. But he— I believe he opens with his brother. Oh, that was the one who was the one Israeli who was a soldier who was killed to rescue those in Entebbe.

But look, I mean, Entebbe's in Uganda.

Yes.

That's where the PLO took the— or whichever Palestinian terror organization. By the way, a word about the Palestinians. 'cause, you know, the poor Palestinians and stuff, 'cause the left has been very, very successful in painting the Israelis as the villains and the Palestinians as the victims. You talk about inversion. So just for the record, this is not— I'm not the first to note that the Nazis hid the murder of Jews from the German people, and the Hamas videoed it to show to the Palestinian people. So that, that's the one difference between the Nazis and Hamas that people often note. But I have noted an additional point. What does that say about the Germans and the Palestinians? Not what does it say about the Nazis and Hamas. The fact that Hitler knew This won't be popular with the Germans if I show them Auschwitz.

You said that at Shabbat and it was such a good point.

It's— that's really devastating.

It is. It is. Well, go ahead.

No, no. Just that it says something that Hamas knows showing videos of slaughtered Jews is going to make us look great.

And, you know, I Maybe we're getting a little too in the weeds here with the Israel-Gaza discussion, though I think it's important. A few months ago, Bibi, Prime Minister Netanyahu of Israel, wrote an op-ed in The Wall Street Journal outlining three things that needed to be in place in order for there to be peace. And one of them was, you know, the de-radicalization of the Palestinian population. And he compared it in the in the op-ed to the denazification post-World War II. Here's what I would say to Netanyahu, and oh my gosh, if there is one person who I don't envy, it is him. If there is one person who I would least want to be, oh my gosh. I mean, he literally, everyone in Israel, but they have civilization on their writing, but they're used to it. If there's one population that is competent enough to carry the weight of civilization, civilization. It is the Israelis. Anyway, what I would say to Netanyahu when he's making that comparison is, yes, you know, de-radicalizing the Palestinian population of Gaza is necessary, or the West Bank is necessary, because as we know, they are taught from the time that they are little that Jews are pigs and, you know, are to be slaughtered. And we fund that with our UNRWA money. Thank you very much. But But here's the difference. After World War II, if we're using, I'm bringing this up because you were talking about comparisons with the German and Hamas, and I'm comparing this moment to World War II. But after World War II, the denazification effort was largely successful because the German population generally was over the war, and the world was generally over the war, and the world generally, excuse me wasn't Nazi or wasn't sympathetic to, to Hitler or to Togo in Japan. You know, people were over it. The bombs had been dropped. Italy had surrendered. The whole world was over having a world war. We're in a different moment now where the denazification in 2024 is different than it was in 1945, because now a lot of the world, is very anti-West and anti-Israel. I wrote an article in The American Mind about Turkey under Erdogan. I mean, in Turkey, as we know, for a long time under Atatürk was very pro-Western and pro-American and secular. And now Turkey in the parliament, they're chanting, you know, free Palestine, free Palestine. Turkey with its majority Sunni Muslim population is very sympathetic to the plight of those in Gaza. I mean, not to mention Iran, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, the UAE. They're a huge bloc of those Muslim-majority countries, plus half of the United States. Now Israel has the problem, or world Jewry has the problem, of not just many in Muslim-majority countries, but half of the country that is supposed to be their ally, the United States of America, turning against them. And we know from the Harvard-Harris poll that about 50% of those in my generation say— and I'm going to get this wrong because I don't have it in front of me— but they say something like they don't think that Israel has the right to exist. So we're— we better wise up because we're in a very different moment.

Right. This is not post-World War II.

This is not the post-World War II moment. It's— there are similarities, but it's actually in some ways it's harder now.

No, not in some ways. It's just harder. You're right.

And so we gotta wise up. And that's when I started the episode, I said we're in a civilizational versus anti-civilizational moment. That's what we're in.

Well, the—

to the listeners/watchers who wanted us to engage in contemporary events, I know we've done it today.

Yeah, no, and, and it is appropriate if We talk these values, but they have to be applied to real-life situations or they're useless. And if you care about good, if you care about civilization, it's so amazing to me, you know, if you— Ayaan Hirsi Ali has criticized Islam and She grew up a Muslim. She had genital mutilation done to her, and she fled to the West. You know, the woman, by the way, is mind-boggling. You know, she became a member of the Dutch parliament. Did you know that?

She is so graceful, right?

But wait, totally. But I just want you to understand her intellectual achievement. She grows up in Somalia. Somalia, which is not the center of the world culturally. She grows up in Somalia. She has a female genital mutilation done to her. She flees as a young person to Europe. She ends up in Holland. She's again a Black, born Muslim, African woman. Doesn't speak a word of Dutch. Probably didn't speak any English, and, or maybe a little bit. She, she masters Dutch, masters speaking and writing in it, and ends up a member of parliament. Now, can you imagine you— how about this— not fleeing to Somalia, you, a European-based person fleeing to Holland, do you think you would get elected to the Dutch parliament? I don't either, and I'm good at languages, but still.

That's right.

I will tell you the— so her achievement. So then she leaves Holland, comes to America, and she becomes one of the leading conservative voices in the United States, marries Neil Ferguson, one of the great historians. He was then at Harvard, left Harvard to go to, to go to the Hoover Institution at Stanford.

Good swap.

Good swap. Exactly.

To other H. Well, good trade.

Yes. H to what? But different H's.

That's right.

And she, she speaks about her experience as a Muslim. All right, my friends, if you're ready to lose weight but not sure where to start, I'd like to tell you about PhD weight loss and nutrition. First, Dr. Ashley Lucas has her PhD in chronic disease and sports nutrition. The program is science-based. The PhD program starts with nutrition but is much more than that. They know that 90% of permanent change comes from the mind, and they work on eliminating the reason you gained weight in the first place. There are no shortcuts, no pills, no injections, just solid science-based nutrition and behavior change. If you are ready to lose weight for the last time, and that may well be, call 1-800-644-1900 to get started or go online at myphdweightloss.com. Do what I did and just make the appointment for your one-on-one consultation. That's 864-644-1900. And it's amazing, if you cite the barbarity of Islamic State, ISIS, Boko Haram, the Muslim group responsible for slaughtering 60,000 Christians since since the year 2000 in West Africa, the Taliban, al-Qaeda, Hezbollah, Hamas, Iranian regime. I mean, at a certain point, are you allowed to ask respectfully, is there a moral problem in Islam today? Is that a legitimate question or does it render you an Islamophobe? In the Taliban have banned girls from going to school. You know that?

Oh, of course I did. How about in the Islamic Republic of Iran? The age of criminal responsibility for women is 6 years lower than that of men. They are not allowed to obtain an education or get or go to certain types of employment without permission from husband and brothers. And marital rape is legal. And if it is outside of marriage, if a woman is raped, she needs to, according to the law of the Islamic Republic of Iran, have 4 male Muslim witnesses to corroborate her story before it's even heard in their sham court. So yes, Dennis, we do need to ask that question, and it's not a PC question. But you know what? Again, I know I'm like a broken record today, but it's true. We're in a civilizational moment and I feel a moral responsibility because I am the beneficiary of Western civilization and of America. I am so proud to be from this heritage. As Roger Scruton says, you should love it because it's your own and you should just as you love that stupid teddy bear that's always been in your room because it's your own. But even beyond it just being my own, it is such a decent civilization, and I really want to protect it. And so this is— I think I told— I feel— I think you know this, but maybe I didn't tell you, but I'm reading the Quran right now. I actually finished it recently. I, I've skipped some parts, but Robert Spencer does— has so many books. He's a prolific scholar of Islam. I had him— I was honored to welcome him on Timeless. And by the way, When he was on Timeless, he had a dark background behind him. He was on Zoom and only his face was illuminated. And Sean and Rick and I understandably said, you know, could you move to another place so that you're more illuminated and, you know, there's a nicer background? And he said, I'm sorry, I can't do that. And we said, why? And he said, because I can't show, I can't have anything behind me that would, no pictures, no books that give any indication of Where I am. Where I am. He said, I can't have people see the size and shape of my windows because then they may be able to more easily identify my house. Because he exposes the truth about some elements of Islam, he can't show the size of his windows for fear of people coming to his home. But anyway, I had him on my show. And he is very fair. He— and he— and there are many beautiful parts of the Quran. There really are. But I'm wearing the armor of God and I'm coming out slinging for the truth. There are also some very dark, dark parts of the Quran that— which do not have counterparts in the Old Testament or the New Testament. I'll give you an example because I've really read this. In chapter 4, verse 34 of the Quran, it talks about how Allah has willed that men are superior to women. And if women are not submissive to their husbands, then a man sends her to separate quarters and can beat her until she is submissive. There is no counterpart to that, to my knowledge. And I'm very willing to be proven— I want to get to the truth. To my knowledge, there is no counterpart to that in the Old Testament or the New Testament. From the moment that a woman is created from the rib of Adam in Genesis, God says— and this is your dedication to Sue in your Torah commentary— I have made him a helper who is his equal. It's immediately affirmed that men and women are equal.

That's the Hebrew, by the way.

Yes. So we have to ask that question that you asked, Dennis Prager.

That's right, we do. So you mentioned— show how carefully I listen to you— your stupid teddy bear.

I love that you're puncturing the balloon right now. It's been so heavy. Good for you. I was about to say we should, we should talk about fountain penning.

Well, I don't know, this is better.

Mr. Tubbs or something.

So first of all, do you have a teddy bear?

I do, actually.

Yes. So it's a perfect thing to end today on. Guess— so my wife walks the two dogs every night.

Mr. Tubbs the pug.

Mr. Tubbs and the, the chocolate lab puppy.

Did you decide on the name?

We're leaning toward Calvin, as in Calvin Coolidge. I think it's adorable.

So funny.

But anyway, uh, sure enough After 15 years of virtually every day walking in the neighborhood, she— guess who she meets?

Who?

A bear.

Oh my gosh.

Yes, a big bear. She, she took a picture of him.

What did she do? Was she afraid, knowing Sue? She was—

well, no, I mean, you know, she does— she didn't panic, but she She was rightfully afraid that it could kill you. Uh, and but I must admit, growing up in Brooklyn, nobody, just California, nobody ran into a bear when they took a walk.

I've gone on hikes and run into rattlesnakes.

Oh, that of course, right? Yes, I agree.

It's—

but this is, this is where we're on a hill in the mountains It's a completely populated neighborhood, you know, it's just house after house, but it is in the mountains. And that's, you know, the bear was checking out garbage cans, which is what bears do. I don't even know if the dogs were scared, which is interesting. He wasn't menacing. He was, but he did look towards Sue's way. And I have to admit that that could be a little scary.

Oh my gosh. I would have been quite afraid.

Wow. He calls his dog the bear stopper.

You do?

He has confronted a bear and the bear ran away.

Wow. Oh, we should— you know, would be a fun Dennis and Julie or We should do comparisons around the country, like just California things. Running into a bear, running into a rattlesnake, driving by the ocean. What are the counterparts to that in the Midwest? Or, I mean, in the East Coast, running into a leftist. Yeah, that's, that's scarier than running into a bear.

It is. Yes.

More life-threatening these days. Oh my God, what did he say?

I will say what he said. Oh no, it takes a fertile brain. So remember I said, I believe I told this Christian audience, I believe you would hide me.

Yes.

So what was your question, Sean? How difficult would it be, in fact to hide me, given I'm 6'4", 270 pounds.

That is so funny.

Well, what— this is the way it would work.

I would be difficult to hide you too, right?

Yeah. So I would be hidden, but my feet would stick out, and, and the— he would just explain that I keep my shoes in a vertical way. How did you find whom? Oh, because I can't stop talking.

By the way, they wouldn't believe that you were a Jew.

That's true.

They wouldn't believe it.

Well, so we'll end with the— do you know? I won't tell it if you know the story. When I was on a panel with a priest and a minister, I don't think I know that. Many, many years ago, the Young Presidents' Organization, very prestigious organization around the world, they have great, great events, and I used to speak for them regularly. So I was brought to Washington, D.C., chapter of YPO, Young Presidents' Organization, for an interfaith dialogue with a Protestant and a Catholic. Catholic priest, Protestant minister, and though I'm not a rabbi, I was the Jew. So it turns out the Protestant was late, and the guy, the host, gets up and said, folks, you know, we'll start as soon as our— the Jewish member of the panel arrives.

Oh my gosh, and you were already there. Yes, of course.

He thought I was the Protestant.

That proves my point.

Exactly. That's why I told you the story.

And you could go, and by the way, I could represent the Protestant. I can, if the Protestant doesn't show up, I can sit in.

Oh, there's no question.

And advocate for the Protestants.

Or the Catholics for that matter.

That is so funny.

It is a very funny story.

Oh my gosh.

All right, tell them how they can get in touch with us because it's a good test of your memory.

Yes, it is. julie@julie-hartman.com. I love hearing from you, as you know. You care to—

I'm watching you.

Take a stab at the social media stuff?

I guess I take a stab. Go ahead.

Dennis is— God, now I'm forgetting. What is it? It's @thedennisprager.

Dennisprager.com is really where to get me.

@thedennisprager on Instagram. Dennis Prager on Twitter. And then I'm @julierhartman on Instagram and Twitter. But we've done Dennis and Julie episodes on getting off of social media. So, you know.

Well, no, no. If there's good and there's bad, there's good.

That's right. Yeah, they should spend, spend like a few minutes, but, but then go walk your dog and don't run into a bear.

Correct. Thanks, everybody.

Great to be with you next week. Bye.

Your beloved dog and a stranger are both drowning. You can only save one. Who do you save? Every time Dennis Prager asks that question, his audience splits three ways. One-third chooses the dog, one-third chooses the stranger, and one-third aren't sure. Why? Because we live in an age where increasingly feelings define right and wrong. But if morality is based on emotion, then murder, rape, and theft are just opinions. And if people feel justified, why is rioting or destruction wrong at all? In his new book, If There Is No God, Dennis Prager explains why civilizations cannot survive without objective morality and why Judeo-Christian Christian values shape the moral foundations of the free world.

If you claim that certain things are good, certain things are evil, independent of how you feel about it, you are in effect affirming God.

If There Is No God by Dennis Prager, available now at pragerstore.com. That's pragerstore.com.