Untethered Balloons

Your dog and a stranger are drowning. You can only save one. Who do you choose? Dennis Prager says your answer reveals everything about how you define right and wrong. In his new book, If There Is No God, Prager exposes the danger of emotion-based morality and why without objective truth, society descends into chaos. This isn't a religious book. It's a rational case for moral clarity in a confused age. If There Is No God from Dennis Prager. Order now at PragerStore.com.

How should I begin that's different from normal? I usually go, hello everybody. I'm thinking of something different this time.

I've put this in your head. I feel bad.

What, that we have to do something different?

Yes, because I was making fun of you lovingly. Remember? Hey everybody, welcome to Dennis Prager, Julie Hartman.

See, it's so interesting.

What number is this?

It's hard. It was— that was good. You did a good job. Thank you. No, you didn't have to add good-naturedly. First of all, you don't even have it in your nature to be bad-naturedly.

I'll take it.

Yeah, that's true.

Well, we all do to some extent.

By the way, that's true too. That—

okay, I knew we were gonna get sidetracked. Let's hear your by the way. Let's hear your by the way.

The by the way was, you will, you will find this topic fascinating. I know you. By the way, I didn't even introduce us. Hello, I'm Dennis Prager. This is Julie Hartman. This is the Dennis and Julie podcast. The subject that came to my mind was— so I have a lifelong friend who was a gem, and I mean, I couldn't even tell you, Joseph, Joseph Telushkin, who has got a heart made of gold, and he's He's a wonderful human being. I'm blessed to have him in my life since high school. An interesting difference between us was our immediate reactions to meeting a person for the first time. And I, because I always, I'm like you, I'm always thinking life through from, and this is built into me, I don't even take credit for it. But from a very early— from high school, I think I realized, but certainly from college, his big reaction to people, I realized he would tell me how intelligent he thought the person was. He fixed his gaze on the person's intelligence. And after a while, it occurred to me I never think about that.

You think about goodness.

Yes, that's where my gaze is fixed. Is this a good person? And so it's a very interesting subject because it's, it, it's remarkable in what it says about oneself. It's remarkable about one's perception of the world. I don't find— here's my bottom line, you'll love this, and I wonder if you feel the same. You may not, and it doesn't in any way detract from your goodness any more than it would from Joseph's. I don't find extremely bright people who aren't good, interesting?

Well, I just don't want to be around them.

Oh, that's true.

Putting the interest category aside, from the time that I was little, I always had a goodness detector and it was always the most important thing to me. And like you, I don't take a lot of credit for it. It was always built in. And I remember being like maybe 4th or 5th grade and there was this guy in my elementary school class and one of my friends, we would play. I was a very sporty girl. I never played with the girls, only with the boys. By the way, to really get controversial in the first like 3 minutes, I think if I were young and I were at one of these woke schools, I honestly think I would be a candidate to become transgender because I was so sporty. I didn't relate to any of the girls. They all wanted to do the whole like padding thing thing.

And if you got depressed any day, Yes. They say, well, the reason, Julie, is 'cause you're really George.

Yes. Yes. And by the way, the people who think that we're exaggerating when we're talking about this, we are not exaggerating. I have done an entire show that is, seems comprehensive, but it's only scratching the surface. And I have gone from school district to school district, from one state's Department of Education codes to another to show that this is being inculcated in kids as young as preschool. It is a proselytizing thing. So I just wanna say that for the record, if you think I'm exaggerating, go watch Timeless, that episode. But I think I would've been a very ripe candidate for that. But putting that aside, I remember, so I played soccer with this guy. One of my friends said, do you like him? And I said, no. And she said, why? And I said, he's not a good person. 'Cause he was kind of—

And how old were you?

I was really young.

And I remember— That's amazing.

And I remember, I actually remembered weirdly, I wasn't ashamed of it, but I kind of thought to myself, Why does this matter so much to me? I had, I had a voice in my head going, well, he's— this is like my fourth grade self— he's cute, he plays soccer with me, he's smart. Why, why is this the thing holding me back? But I just always accepted it as a part of myself. I don't like being around bad people. I don't care if they're— they are super smart. I don't care if they give me access to cool people or cool events. You know, I— that none of that matters to me. If I think that they are a bad person, it ruins the whole thing.

Even better, not a person, right? Because there aren't many very good and there aren't many very bad. Most people are in the middle. But, right, but if the middle is usually an area of weakness, so it will bend to the bad.

You know, it sounds like right now that I'm complimenting myself, or we're complimenting this, this part of us, but I have to say I don't— I would love to think that it's values-based. I think it is. But I also just— I don't know if I'm explaining this well, but it's just— it's always been a fixture in me.

Oh, I totally relate to that. Yes, of course. That was my point. But the irony is people make a mistake on selfish grounds if they don't assess that, because a brilliant person who isn't good is going to hurt you.

Yes.

So on selfish grounds, the first thing you should measure is their decency.

Well, you say this, and I think it's a brilliant argument. When you're telling people why they should be good, you say the quality that you most want in other people is goodness. You want your car dealer to be good. You want your spouse to be good. You want your teacher to be good. Every— the people you work with, you want that out of everyone else to be honest and decent in their dealings with you. So then what, you're just somehow precluded from meeting that standard?

That, that's basically how people think. But, uh, I, I know you have, subject, but I did. I don't even know. But how did it come up? What triggered my—

I said, this is so Dennis and Julie, and I love it. And I've actually gone back and studied it. We weirdly figure we get to our topic of the day in the first 5 to 10 seconds off of something accidental. So I was making— you said, I'm trying to find a different way to open, and I was making fun of you. And then I said, I'm doing this lovingly. And then you said you don't have it in your nature to be bad. And then I said, well, actually, everybody does. And then, shoo, we're off on the Dennis and Julie freeway. No, but I've thought about this because I think, like, it really is remarkable because we don't come in discussing what we're going to say. I told you today I have a subject, but you don't know what it is.

I have no idea.

And so I've wondered, how do we get on this stuff? And it's in literally the first 10 seconds.

It is where it was an important byway. It was a good Dennis and Julie detour because if— I'm saying this to all of you who are watching or listening— if you can't assess immediately or nearly immediately the character of the human being that you're inviting into your life, I don't even mean as a lover or as a friend even, just a business associate, whatever it might be, you're not protected. So that's proof that I'm not saying this as a form of self-compliment. This is a form of self-defense. That's why I am— I— what I'm lucky about is that I can assess that very rapidly. Well, I— and forgive me, I don't know if somebody's brilliant rapidly because it's like asking me, what is— this Uber picked you up, what color was it?

Yeah, that's a good analogy because I don't— it's not important to you, right?

But if you were a car painter or if you were a car dealer, you would undoubtedly know that. And it's your business to know that. But I'm, I'm not zeroed in on how bright you are. Here's another interesting sidebar. 40 years of talking to people on talk radio. I came to this conclusion very early on. There are very few stupid people.

Hmm. You said that to me. You said don't overestimate, don't underestimate their intelligence, but don't overestimate their knowledge.

That's right. People come out with stupid thoughts and ideas and insights, but that's not because their brain matter is lacking.

Oh, I know. I mean, I saw this in college. I would see people who are brilliant, who know a lot of facts, but are fools. Yes. Right.

Brilliant dummies. That's right. They're a dime a dozen.

Well, on the subject of goodness nowadays, It is cool to not be good. It's cool to do the wrong thing. I believe I've said this on Dennis and Julie before, but I remember when I was in college that I was in a room with this guy and he was bragging about how he was, how he was going to cheat on his exam or how he already cheated on the exam. I can't quite remember the details. And I, and I said to him, why are you bragging about this? Or why, why is this something that you're proud of? And he said to me, Life is a game and there are winners and there are losers. And the winners are the people who play life, the game of life, the best way. And the losers are the people who don't. And people who cheat, they are seen as like, they're seen as cool because like they figured out how to finesse. They figured out how to get the A but without doing any actual work. And that makes them smart because all the chums who studied wasted their time. But this brilliant guy, you know, played the game so well that he got what he wanted. Wanted without doing any actual work. That is now considered cool among my— I mean, maybe I'm just zeroing in on my generation. Do you think that's always been the case? Do you think when you were young there was that similar mentality? I think to some extent that kind of thought has always been in our culture.

Well, in every culture. I mean, and our culture has been better. In America, the public— the public assessment of people was not positive towards the cheat. If you bragged about cheating, it was quiet. Now I think you're saying it's out loud.

Well, that's the thing. I couldn't understand the difference. If he did it like— if I were him, I would— I would never admit that.

Right.

You know, but he was— he was wearing it like a badge of honor, which fascinated me.

Yes.

Why are you doing this? And people— it's not that people, you know, in the room were like cheering him on, but they were— I could— no one challenged him. And I think that people were actually kind of seeing it as something worthy of respect.

So I have a question on, on this really major topic, which I can't believe it spontaneously.

I'm telling you, go back to every Dennis Prager show.

I know you're right. It's like abiogenesis.

But you know, you know what it is, life from non-life. It's because— it's true, it's because you and I, but especially you, you have— and you've, you've refined this over, you know, 50 years of your career— you have theories and observations about everything. So something accidental, you know, like literally I was listening to one the other day and you had a spoon on the desk and you moved it, and then we got into a whole discussion about how females see certain things that men don't.

Right.

The innocuous opens us up. So anyway, go ahead.

Dennis Prager here with a man I have come to admire for his work. So when I asked him, what do you do? This is the title he gave: Wealth Architect.

Very simply put, I am a wealth architect that helps my clients accelerate the way they grow your wealth. It's not how much you make, it's how much you keep. The Internal Revenue Code is embedded with a number of things that you can take advantage of— it's what I call playing tax chess. We take the time to play tax chess in your favor. We give our clients unbiased, independent advice across all areas in their financial life because we have no incentive to sell anything.

I was taken enough and impressed enough to have you do my work, and you have in fact saved me a serious amount of money. CharlesDombek.com/DennisPrager. So when I have discussed this issue with people privately, you know, dinner, dinner conversation, let's say, people have been hurt. Almost everybody has been hurt by someone they trusted. I, I can say, and all it is, is with with great gratitude, obviously. It has virtually never happened to me. I don't recall trusting someone and being hurt by them. And it's because I'm really a possessor of the goodness radar. My radar is really clear. It's the only— as I said, it's the only thing I zero in on. Because again, I don't— I, let's come back to my point. I don't think there are many stupid people. Obviously, if somebody were good and they just were a dummy— I mean, not that they, not that they graduated college and thought stupid things, but that they— because you do learn to— you— I do believe college makes most people stupider. I do believe that. It doesn't— I don't mean their brain matter. I believe in, in their pattern of thought. So I— people will ask me, okay, Dennis, how can I tell? What's your secret? I want your radar. And, and it's very hard to— very hard.

It's so true. I, I don't know how I would explain it to someone, but it— but apropos of our— of my observation about Dennis and Julie, that it's that our conversations come from the innocuous. That's sort of how I detect quickly if someone's good or not. It's something accidental or it's something— the way that they phrase something or the way that they talk about something innocuous. And I can get a kind of feel.

I gave— I get— yes. So to try to be more helpful to people because It's, it's a big deal, obviously. One of my— and I'm sure yours as well— one, one of my methods is watch how they treat others. So that if I, I am at a restaurant, I will watch how the person treats the waiter.

See, I have— I'm so glad you brought this up because I have a little twist on that. I think in your generation you could detect someone's goodness off of how they treated the waiter. In my my generation, even the scumbags are not rude to the waiter because we live in this social justice world where actually people go out. I've noticed like people go out of their way to be pandering to service people like, and I've—

that's the working class.

That's the work because that's the oppressed group. But here's— I'm doing a Dennis thing. You'll find this fascinating. The waiter equivalent in my generation is the unvaccinated Trump voting conservative. That is the equivalent. It's how do you treat someone who you don't need to be nice to, or you may look with scorn? Because in other— people will go, oh, well, the waiter's just a service person. In my generation, they look with scorn on the people who think differently from them. And I've— and I, I always use that as a, as a way to judge people.

And it's not completely, uh, you're— I think you're right. And to add to your point, it's not completely symmetric. When I meet a Biden-supporting— that doesn't matter, Biden, it's irrelevant to me. They're fixated on Trump. I'm not fixated on Biden. I'm fixated on the left, which is now unfortunately the great bulk of the Democratic Party. I, I can separate to a certain extent— you can't fully because you shouldn't— but I can separate your erroneous beliefs about society from you. People, every one of us is morally two people. The micro and the micro and the macro. Exactly. Which is something I've really brought to a lot of people's lives. They now use the terms.

Oh, I do, I do.

It's such a big division. It, it explains almost everything. So I said once in explaining micro macro, how with two people you could have been I said something to the effect, there were nice slaveholders. So of course, so the left, of course, says, look, Prager thinks slaveholders were nice. It's because truth is not a left-wing value. So it's irrelevant.

There were Nazis who gassed people, went home to their families and kissed their wives and children before they went to bed.

That's exactly the point. That's exactly the point. So to qualify as a good person, you have to be macro and micro. There are people— and by the way, vice versa— there are people with, with great macro values who are not particularly decent people on a personal basis.

That's true. I have met people in both categories. I've met people and I'm so happy with their macro beliefs, but not with their, with their micro behavior, and then vice versa.

Yeah, that I know that you and I vote the same, have the same views about America and the Middle East and so on is wonderful. And you're my ally in that arena. It doesn't mean I want to be your friend. You may, you may not be a terrific individual personally. It's, in other words, among other things, it's tough to be a good person and you've got to work at it.

Well, also because there are so many influences which are pushing you away from that. And I think that the biggest is that we just don't see examples in certainly our culture, but increasingly less in our own lives of really principled people. Just like, I mean, I feel bad because I feel like I always pick on Harvard.

Um, well, that's where you went, right?

But I— it's, it's, it's sort of like we were talking about macro and micro, because I loved a lot of my experience there, and I met just some of the most incredible people. I mean, I talk with my friends from there on a daily basis, and I had a great dorm. There were so many things I will always be so grateful to that school for. But, you know, if I look at like the faculty, or if I look at, you know, sort of the greater role model. There weren't people who I looked at and thought, I want to be like that person. In fact, especially in the administration, it was the dead opposite. And I remember when I was younger and in my high school, there were teachers at my high school where I wanted to be like them. They were so just powerful role models of, of service and intelligence and graciousness. And it's so, it's so empowering.

How many teachers from high school names do you remember?

Oh, well, probably almost all.

How many teachers from college names do you remember?

Very, very few.

And you just went to college?

Yeah.

Isn't that interesting? I've often thought about that. I, I've, I've often thought, because I'm asked this periodically, if I didn't write and speak for a living, what would I do? This is a very fair question. And I, I usually answer I would teach. And so then I asked myself, would I rather teach high school or college? And since the only thing I care about is influencing people, so it's a very interesting question. Who gets to influence people more, high school teachers or college teachers? You have a thought?

High school.

Okay, well, the fact that you remember their names, and me too, I don't remember I, I— this will sound bizarre. I actually— excuse me, I take it back. I remember two college teachers' names from four years. My Russian teacher, Fran Parker, because she was such a great Russian teacher. I really learned the language well through her. And a very, very pretty English teacher.

That's so funny.

Miss Anderson.

Of course. That's so funny.

Who would I— it's painful to think how old she is right now.

There are some professors who I look back on and I go, yeah, I really liked their classes or I liked them. But you got my overall point that the, that the professors and the administration, I didn't see any—

yeah, no role models. Exactly.

Role models by any means.

I couldn't agree with you more.

And it's so cool as a kid to look up to someone.

Well, so what is your answer? Oh, but— oh, okay. Now you got another subject.

All right.

So this is a message I have for men all the time. Your task as a man is to be a father figure to younger men.

I was speaking to a friend recently, and she asked me, what do I want to be? You know, what's my goal in this career? And I said, honestly, I want to be a good role model for people in our generation, people in every generation. And she said to me, Oh God, I wish I could remember the word she used, but she said like, isn't that a little presumptuous? Or— and I'm like, no, it's bizarre. I agree it's bizarre.

If you aspire to goodness, well, isn't that a little prideful?

Yeah, it's a little like— what's the word? Um, I guess it is self-aggrandizing, but if it's where you want to like not proselytize, but paternalistic.

Why is it paternalistic?

That's the word I was looking— I don't— that's the word she used, paternalistic.

All right, fine. It's so interesting, though. If you, if you would have said, let's say you're 18 years old, oh, I want to be a great— I want to be a really famous musician, singer in a band. Whatever it is, people go, go to it.

Yes.

But I really aspire to be a good role model.

I know.

Boy, that's pumped.

Well, it's seen as kind of corny. And, and you know what, this is where I actually will give my friend some, some leeway. I think there are so few people who genuinely aspire to be that. There are so many who are in it for money, fame, glory. We, we kind of have a, um, morally dried up culture. We don't have a lot of people aspiring to be good. So I think when somebody hears it, it almost comes off as disingenuous. I would hope that she would know that I'm not disingenuous, but I sort of, I kind of get it. It comes off as a little trite or corny. It's like, come on, you don't really want to be a role model. You want to be well known. You want to make a lot of money. You want to be the best in your field.

Corny. I think of that word a lot because I often preface by statement that in high school I wrote in my journal, my diary, I know exactly what I want to do with my life— influence people for the good. And I will say, if that ever comes up, I would say to an audience, look, I know it's pretty corny.

I say that all the time. I say on my show, at the risk of sounding corny or trite, Yes, because I know it comes off that way.

You have to apologize. I know, in the realm of goodness. But if I had said, you know what, the truth is, when I was in high school, I really wanted to be a millionaire, nobody would think, okay, that's interesting.

But here's the thing. I view the truth and I view goodness as like a treasure trove that is of even more worth than the most amount of money. And I'm not acting like— of course I want to make money. You know, I'm not acting like I'm holier than thou. I'm going to move and become a monk and, you know, reject all the worldly pleasures. I'm not that. But the thing that I wish people understood is like, I feel like I have discovered, slash, I'm on the road to even continuing to discover the truth. And that, that's what I want to bring to people. It is the coolest thing. The truth— when you, when you discover truth and goodness and beauty, it's like It's like you've struck gold and you become addicted to it and you become obsessed with it. And every single day I'm just trying to figure it all out. And I, and that's, and I want to internalize that, be a living embodiment of that and pass that on to other people. Well, so yes, it's values-based, but it's also like, I feel like I've discovered this secret or this treasure or this great thing that I, I want to broadcast. Does that make any sense? There are many good reasons to buy gold and silver, bank failures, Digital currency volatility. Emerging market countries trying to topple the dollar as a global reserve currency. Julie Hartman here for Amped Coin and Bullion, Dennis's choice for precious metals. If you ask Amped owner Nick Grovich to simplify the case for precious metals, he'll tell you that when President Roosevelt recalled the gold in circulation and paid people with paper money, they received a $20 bill for a $20 gold piece. Today, that $20 bill won't even fill half of your gas tank, but the gold piece is worth about $2,000. Which would you rather own? Now let's simplify the reasons to use AmpFed Coin and Bullion. Nick's been in the industry for over 42 years, and he's proud of providing transparency and fair pricing to build trusted relationships. If you're interested in buying or selling, call Nick and his team at AmpFed Coin and Bullion, 1-800-221-7694, americanfederal.com. AmericanFederal.com.

Too much. The truth issue is everything, but we've discussed it, so I'm not going to belabor it, but it is everything. You know what the definition of courage is? One who tells the truth. That's it. That's the definition of courage. One who tells the truth. Anyway, so much for the goodness radar, which is a very big deal. And I, I didn't really answer the question beyond the waiter.

I know. You know what? I wish that we could take a person.

Oh, that's it.

And bring them on the show and talk with them for 5 minutes and then analyze.

Yes.

Let's bring Sean in here.

Yeah.

Sean, you want to be the guinea pig? The goodness guinea pig?

Yeah. Sean, how do you treat waiters?

How do you treat unvaccinated?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. How do you treat me? That was a good one. He's polite to most people he meets unless they don't deserve it. So that's your excuse about how you treat me? You know, Julie's mother.

It's true.

She thinks we dislike each other.

Yep.

And she's wrong. I dislike you, but you don't dislike me.

Now she's gonna go, wow, he's a real blankety-blank to Sean. So I do have a topic.

Yes.

And Dennis has no idea what it is.

Correct.

It's inspired by a conversation I had with, uh, someone who's 23 years old She lives with her parents. She does not, she did not go to college, but she, I mean, talk about smart. She's very smart, very well-informed, very wise. She's conservative and she has a part-time job. She's struggling a bit with finding not just a stable job, but sort of like a stable life really. And my conversation with her was so interesting to me because this is, something I've more broadly noticed, not just with this individual, but I think it's really difficult right now to be young. Very difficult right now to be in, in your 20s. And the reason why I want to bring this up with you is because I'm curious. Obviously, it's never easy in any age. It's hard to be young in your 20s. There's always uncertainty with your— who you're going to marry, what job you're going to have, where you're going to live. That is, you know, timeless, to use a term I often sometimes say. Often, sometimes, that wasn't eloquent. Anyway, but I think it is even worse now because I was talking with this person and she was saying so many of the things that I feel and a lot of other people my age feel, and that is it's very hard to meet people. And she was saying, I live with my parents and I try to go out and meet people. I try to go to community events, but there aren't really community events. And she said, I tried to go to a church youth gathering and there was like 2 people there who were my age. And I understand where she's coming from because I, a lot of my friends live in New York. I live in LA because my job is here. I have one friend here from high school. And so I've really had to kind of go out and find friends. And it's hard. It's really hard because people just don't, they don't go out and they don't value meeting people. I think it's also really hard financially. A lot of people are living with their parents because they can't afford an apartment. I'm blessed. I do live in an apartment away from my parents. But I've noted there was actually an article in the Wall Street Journal recently about how more and more young adults are living with their parents. And half of me looks at that and goes, we're a spoiled generation and we need to grow up. But another half of me looks at that and I do think right now it is especially, especially difficult to get on your feet. Do you think that's fair?

Well, I think about that a lot. I think it's much tougher to be a young person in America today than when I was young. There wasn't— there— if I were writing a column and I could take the time to think it through, I would probably have a longer list. But what immediately comes to mind is confusion.

Yes, I—

we did not live in chaos. There was the Vietnam War, and there was rioting, and there were race riots, there were the assassinations, and these were serious, serious matters. But no boy was told you might be a girl, or a girl, you might be a boy.

There wasn't war on reality itself.

That's right. Yeah, there was not a war on reality itself. We had— most of us had patriotism, which is a very important thing, to love your country. Or to at least admire it with all its flaws. Most of us had God. Most of us had two parents. I mean, those are very big things. Most of us— hey, listen, right before I was of age to think about it, so 10 years before I was, I guess, an adolescent, was the famous song Love and Marriage Go Together Like a Horse and Carriage. So I was living when that song came out. I believe it was the '50s. I was, you know, I was single digits, but it was, it was my— I was alive when that song was popular. That song today is a relic. It's—

talk about corny and trite. People listen to that and they think it's like, no, no, it's laughable. Corn chips.

I grew up with Father Knows Best as one of the most popular sitcoms. Father Knows Best. It is a running joke in the post-feminist world in which we live.

I can't imagine sitting and listening to that song. We played it on Dennis and Julie. It's— it's— which song? Sorry, the loving carriage together.

Like, love and marriage.

Love and marriage. I say loving carriage.

Yeah.

Loving carriage. Yeah. You can tell I haven't listened to it very much. I can't imagine listening to that and not thinking corny, trite, even me. And I love this stuff. I buy into these values 100%. I listen to that into my ear and go, old, antiquated, boring, trite, like another universe. How are you not so jaded?

Well, that's another thing too, isn't it? We were not as jaded as your generation. You know, that's my, that's my biggest argument for homeschooling kids. They're wide-eyed, bushy-tailed, non-jaded kids. Most kids who go to regular schools are jaded in America, certainly big city schools. And how could you not be jaded? I mean, think of the, the innocents robbing crap that you're given, which is all by way of answering your question. To be a young person today, you don't, you don't have God, you don't have country. God and country are very big. You, you don't even have your own sex. That isn't even stable. There's no religion gives stability. A good home gives stability.

Hmm.

Let's see what else. Patriotism gives stability. It's all been robbed. There is nothing under your generations and even young, much younger than you even. There's no— there's no floor.

So you, you use the word confused to describe what's going on right now. I have a similar but different word. Untethered. And that's what you just said. There's no floor. I feel like we're all— we're like balloons floating up in this. It's like we're not— we're not tethered to God. We're not tethered to country. We're not tethered to family. We're not tethered. It's like, yes, that's true. And I think also—

yes, I like that. I like that.

We're untethered.

I think in terms of visual imagery, the balloon imagery is very good.

It's—

well, it's an untethered balloon.

It's so funny because I was— I was walking out of the store the other day and there was a balloon floating up in the sky and I looked up at it and I thought, my generation. Isn't that weird? First thing I thought.

Well, to me it's not weird.

We're drifting.

I love your mind.

We don't know where we're going.

That's right. That's correct.

And so, you know, my generation, we've been, sorry, allow me to backtrack for a minute. One of the things that I fear on my show, Timeless, and in our general commentary is that we're too often criticizing things and we're not building something up. And I really, sometimes I drive to work and I go, okay, Julie, for all that you're gonna lament today, what are you gonna, what are you gonna offer that's defending something or praising something? But then I realized that actually the basis of all of my criticisms is because I wanna defend something. I'm criticizing the bad direction America's going in because I wanna I want to conserve and preserve and defend what America was and always has been about. E pluribus unum, liberty in God we trust, as a very, very great author I know calls that the American Trinity. So all of my criticisms are in defense, but right now in America, my generation, we've just been funneled with criticisms. We've just been told that everything, the whole edifice, the whole foundation that was beneath us is defective and shanty, and we have to turn away from from that. And it's like, what do people my age love? What do they aspire to be? What do they want to defend? What do they want out of their, their lives? I mean, if you go up to most people my age and say, do you want to get married, we have this kind of lukewarm, like, yeah, if it happens, you know, that could be okay. To me, I have not found who I'm going to marry yet, but I know I want to get married. That is, that is not— I can't even conceive of that being something I would be wishy-washy about. So I feel I want to get married, I want to have kids, I want to have a family. That is a non-negotiable. But for a lot of people my age, and I'm not trying to wag the finger, I see where this comes from and it makes me really sad. We've been told that that isn't worthy, isn't valuable, isn't necessary. And so we're like a floating balloon. We don't know what we want. We don't know who we are. And for people like—

So I sympathize with your opening question. I do. I do feel bad for your generation. Well, I mean, What you wanted to say something? Because I'll go back to my point.

Well, just, just quickly, I also think for, for young people, and I'm, I'm not trying to act like I have it bad. I have a very blessed life. I'm, I'm incredibly privileged. But I think for people like me and this girl who I was talking to that led to this discussion, we want those things. We know we want to get married. We know we want certain things out of our lives, but so many other people our age don't. And it's not important to them. And it's like everything has been moved back. You know, when in your early 20s, 50 years ago, most people were not living with their parents. They were married and maybe they had a kid on the way. And now the timetable has been moved back like 10 to 15 years where people are waiting till they're in their late 20s and 30s to get married. And so if you're me and you're young and you're, you're ready to have the life, it's really hard because so many people around you aren't and you're moved back as a result of their being moved back.

The number of arenas where it is so difficult to be a young person today. Let's, let's go one by one. You're talking the marriage, right? Which I agree with you. So people should listen to the popular songs, the most popular songs in the '50s and '60s, let alone before that. It's, it's all about, almost all about, I want, I want this girl, I hope she loves me, I want it. There's a song, I wonder, Sean, try to get it up, Where the Boys Are. Folks, are you ready to lose weight? But not sure where to start. So I'd like to tell you why I chose PhD Weight Loss and Nutrition. First, Dr. Ashley Lucas has her PhD in chronic disease and sports nutrition. The program is completely science-based. The PhD program starts with nutrition and is a lot more than that. They know that 90% of permanent change comes from the mind, and they work on eliminating the reasons you gained the weight in the first place. There are no shortcuts, no pills, no injections, just solid science-based nutrition and behavior change. It's worked for me, it has worked for my colleagues Seb Gorka and Mike Gallagher. If you are ready to lose weight for the last time, call 864-644-1900, 864-644-1900 to get started, or online at myphdweightloss.com and do what I and so many others do, and so many others did in fact, and that's Just make an appointment for your one-on-one consultation. It's free. Call today, 864-644-1900. This song, if this were played to the women of Harvard, even the, the, um, the title, I already know how it's going to come off. Yes, I vaguely remember, but I know, I know, I'm almost certain that's the title. And you know, she will— she wants to go, I think she wants to go where the boys are. In other words, not to play soccer with them, but she wants a boy. When I was a kid, boys were girl crazy and girls were boy crazy. Somebody told me, someone very young was telling me that, and some religious people may welcome this because they're against premarital sex, and I I understand that, but this is not coming from a good place, that there's vast numbers of young people who have no sex.

I told you that. That young person was me.

Oh, that's right. Okay.

I was thinking—

Hold on. Here we go. Here's the music. Where the boys are, someone waits for me. You hear that? I have the chills.

I envy that that time existed.

That's right.

Be honest. I love these values. To my ear, that seems a little corny. Even to my ear, right?

No, you said the other thing was corny. Where the Boys? Connie Francis, 1961. Perfect.

Oh, God, I'm sorry. I feel like I would have done so well if I was born in the '40s or '50s.

You would have. So, I mean, guys knew to— I'm gonna get married. It wasn't an issue. Forget the girls did, the guys did.

But here's the thing, I mean, we could go down so many avenues. Porn has ruined guys.

So yes.

It's ruined— there are things that are out of our control.

So here's the question. It's done a lot of damage.

You have no idea how much.

You're right, I may not, because I'm somewhat out of touch in that particular arena, and I don't know how many guys would open up to me. In any event, the question is which came first, the chicken or the egg, or indeed did they come at the same time? Let us say that porn didn't exist, which would be—

that'd be a wonderful world.

I couldn't agree more. Let's say it didn't exist. Would, would the— first of all, it's not porn, I don't believe. You should tell me, maybe I'm wrong. It's stopping girls from—

no, it's boys.

Okay, so what you're telling— so wait, so I don't— I have no idea what's the correct answer here, but But what you're saying is, whereas 25, certainly 50 years ago, young men and young women, adolescents even, were having something, even if not full intercourse, they were having physical intimacy, some form of sexual relationship. Today they're not. And it's because of porn, or at least in part. You're not saying fully, but— so I said if it disappeared, what would happen? Since it's not stopping the girls from having sex or some form of sexual contact, it's stopping the boys. So what you're saying to me—

but if it's stopping the boys, then it's—

no, I turn— yes. So wait, so you're— what you're saying is the girls want boys sexually but the boys don't want girls sexually because they're taking care of themselves through porn. That's what you're saying to me?

Um, yes, sort of, right?

So I, I have no comment because I have no idea. I believe that the, the male-female alienation that exists way transcends the porn problem.

And by the way, I just want to for reference, this is, um, a recent study, uh, over the past few months that came out. It wasn't just my anecdotal observation, though I, it also is my anecdotal observation that people my age are having less intimacy than, and, and I, I'm not shying away from the sex term. I, I'm actually using the word intimacy deliberately there than previous generations. But there was a study, uh, recently published in The Telegraph, the UK magazine. It was showing in France, in the United Kingdom, in the United States, in parts of Europe, it's, it's bar none. Generations past were having way more sexual encounters than we are.

Right. But they, they—

but okay, we're in a sex-obsessed society. That's the weird thing. There's, there's sex everywhere you turn in our society. You pass by a billboard, you listen to these songs, all they're talking about is sex. You can get— you can—

I mean, there are these apps where you can talk to people at the Super Bowl.

And so it's— that's a fascinating paradox. No, I agree with you that There's, there's been a cultural supplement, but I think the technological thing has been huge.

Yeah, I believe you. And I don't— I just don't know. I don't— I know it's not been positive, to say the least. The reason I question it is that, again, remember I spoke about boys being girl crazy and girls being boy crazy when I was a kid. It wasn't just, I want to jump in bed with him. It was, I crave a boyfriend. I crave a girlfriend.

Intimacy. That's the word. Intimacy.

Yes. Okay. I understand. But it was, I want to fall in love. These were love songs.

Yes.

Okay. Of course, there's a sexual component, especially at a younger age. But that doesn't exist.

We don't want intimacy anymore.

Yes. So I. As I said, if porn disappeared, would the guys be running out of the house dating, dating real women for, for real intimacy?

I think yes.

Okay.

I do, because I think then, then it's—

if it's true, it's a catastrophe.

I think pornography has done damage in two ways. Number one, it's, it's hypersexualized people, but all— but made people people hypersexual privately. They satiate their own desires and then they don't go out to have a girlfriend or boyfriend. But the second thing is, it's— pornography is so— oh God, it's so funny. No, my parents are listening. Uh, talking about— we never talked about these matters growing up. I always feel sometimes weird talking about them on the air, but this is life, right? Pornography is so coarse and so really honestly in many cases violent. And, um, there, there's no— let me put it this way— there's no intimate porn. The, the people who are watching pornography, they're not watching a lovely two people falling in love. They're not. They're watching something very, very different. And I don't want to get into what, but they— trust me, they are watching something dramatically different than an intimate encounter.

So again, I have no answer to this. This is, this is not even a challenge. It's, it's a curiosity question. In your view, if all of a sudden Martians were able to stymie all porn.

Yes, I think it would. I think it would change so much. It wouldn't be the be-all end-all, but I honestly think it would eradicate the problem 75% of the way.

So You may well be right, and I wish it could happen, but my skepticism is not about negativity with regards to porn, especially porn-addicted, if there's such a thing, porn-transfixed young people. It's about my belief that before that Look, when I was that age, there was Playboy. Playboy was the porn of the day.

I know.

Say that it is infinitely more innocent. Oh, okay.

Okay.

But wait, wait, wait. If the argument is boys are taking care of themselves sexually and therefore not seeking women, whether it's through gross porn or more innocent porn, They're still taking care of themselves. Theoretically, in my generation, they shouldn't have yearned for real women either.

Right. But I think there's a difference. I think, yes, there's a shallowness to both Playboy and modern-day pornography, but modern-day pornography is so especially— I mean, it's to really get into it. I mean, the whole thing of pornography is that it's not a love encounter. The whole reason people like it is that it is very It's deviant, it's violent, it's weird. And I'm sorry to acknowledge that, but it's way different because the intimacy has not only been killed.

No, I agree, it's way different.

It's been subverted.

Okay.

And now people like watching things that are—

Why didn't Playboy subvert the urinal for real women?

Because a woman in a bikini.

Well, she wasn't in a bikini.

Okay, whatever, a woman in whatever. It's a very different flavor than the kinds of scenes you're watching.

Okay, that is entirely accurate, and I wish we were in the age of just Playboy. It would be a better, better time. I agree with you. But again, these are— I don't know if we even know the answers. Let me tell you why I'm even asking the questions, because my focus, and maybe erroneously, I I totally, totally grant that— is more on social messages crushing male-female yearning, right, than pornography. Because women aren't yearning men and they're not watching pornography. So that's a pretty powerful argument, right, on my part.

Oh, I'm not just—

well, my generation started being told a woman without a man is like a fish without a bicycle. That had nothing to do with porn. Women, you don't need a man. You're crazy if you pursue a man. You should pursue a career. Maybe that's even more devastating.

Oh, I think this was a terrible collision. I think there was a cultural campaign and then the technological advent. They just hit each other and it has created this catastrophe, this explosion of bombing goodness. That's what has happened. No, I'm with you totally that the cultural changes have contributed to this.

Here's a guy between our ages. Yeah. The access to pornography. Yeah. Has created an unhealthy objectification which has led to lack of intimacy. I don't agree with you. Oh, men objectified the woman in Playboy just as much as they do.

Okay.

All right, I don't buy it. I know it's not— it doesn't— it's not the popular thing for me to say. No, no, this argument about women objectified, that's male sexual nature. Yes, men wanted to look at women's legs in my father's generation as much as an objectified part of a woman's body as they do today. But it— no, it wasn't. Okay. What boys see now is unhealthy. I agree with you. You're the one who taught me the great lesson about the, the, the grabbing of the neck, which they learned, which they clearly learned from porn. I'm not defending porn. I am saying that there are transcendent issues for the alienation of men and women in your generation that are independent of porn.

Agreed. Agreed.

Okay, okay, fair enough. Well, if we agree, we—

but, but that—

when I, when I ask a woman, would you, you know, 25-year-old woman on the airplane or in line to get on the plane or who's my waitress, uh, you know, do you, do you want to get married? Well, you know, it's— I'm not thinking about that now. I, I, I'm much more interested in my grades. I'm much more interested in my career. If the right guy comes along, you know, maybe so. That was not an answer. That is, that answer is 100% independent of pornography. Dennis Prager here with a man I have come to admire for his work. So when I asked him, what do you do? This is the title he gave: Wealth Architect.

Very simply put, I am a wealth architect. That helps my clients accelerate the way they grow your wealth. It's not how much you make, it's how much you keep. The Internal Revenue Code is embedded with a number of things that you can take advantage of. It's what I call playing tax chess. We take the time to play tax chess in your favor. We give our clients unbiased, independent advice across all areas in their financial life because we have no incentive to sell anything.

I was taken enough and impressed enough to have you do my work. And you have, in fact, saved me a serious amount of money. CharlesDombek.com/Prager. Do you agree with that?

Um, I don't know if I'd say 100%. I'd say 90%.

Okay, fine. 90%.

Should we shake on it? But no, let's go back to the general discussion about, in many ways, how difficult it is to be young. This is a huge part of it. The intimacy, the dating, all of that. And then add in the whole, like, gender confusion too, where a lot of, a lot of people are becoming bisexual. A lot of people are questioning their sexuality. That's, that could be a whole conversation unto its own. But what do you, what do you think about the whole phenomenon of more young people living with their parents?

So If it's purely because financially it is so much easier, they're really working, they're, they're trying to make a living, but, uh, it's much easier to live with mom and dad, and it's a, it's a, it's a temporary arrangement, and it's purely for financial reasons, I, I don't have any I'm not going to make a judgment, but I could say for me, if I had to live in a tiny studio, a New York-size apartment, rather than my parents' home, I would have lived there.

Well, that's what I did. I mean, and look, I'm lucky that I can afford it, but it's— it would have— boy, I would save Iotas of money if I could live with— if I—

why don't—

why—

why do so many of your generation not even care about having a car? Do you know how much later kids are getting licenses than when I— oh yeah, when I was a kid, you sort of counted down the days to your 16th birthday.

I did too.

To get— you did?

I did. I thought it was so cool.

Well, yeah.

Well, also, living in L.A., you need a car. But my friends in New York, none of them.

Well, no, that's true. And I lived in New York and I didn't get one till I was 21. But that's because I flunked when I was 17. You know why?

You went too fast.

No, no, no. You will really enjoy this. I was about 17 or 18. I took my driver's test in Manhattan or Brooklyn. I don't remember where I took it, but it was, it was New York City. And the next thing, okay, Dennis, would you please park park our car. You know, the tester is in the passenger seat, obviously. So of course I go, and then I go, and in New York they're pretty tight because it's hard. It was even then hard to find a parking space, but it was— there was enough room for my car. And could I parallel park? And I was able to parallel park, but the way I figured out how far back I could go is by tapping the car in front of me and behind me.

Oh gosh.

Because that's how my father parked.

Really?

He was the one who taught me how to drive.

Oh my gosh.

Well, you know, so I immediately flunked.

As a quick aside, but it actually could be relevant to this conversation, I often think about how in all categories of life we've lowered our standards. My driving test was a joke. I passed. But if you didn't—

I think driver's ed is a joke. Well, I don't know what you learned.

So guess what? I didn't have to parallel park.

You didn't? You're kidding. No.

Guess what I had to do? They replaced this. I have no idea why. Maybe they think it's racist to expect people to parallel park. I would not put it past them in this crazy world. I had to go up to the curb and I had to back up in a straight line for 30 feet and show that I was able to back up in a straight line for 30, 40 feet. My God, that's the easy part.

I think my grandson Jack could do that.

And so let me tell you something, when I got my driver's license, I could not parallel park well. In fact, I avoided it. Now, now I know how to do it because I've just driven so much, I've taught myself. But in so many categories— I remember when my sister, my sister was 9 years older, when she was doing driver's ed, because I was young and I thought it was so cool, I remember the stuff that she would tell me that she would have to show, and it a totally different standard than what I had. And so in all areas of life— driver's ed, get people getting rid of the SAT, even the way like men interact with women on an interpersonal level— we've lowered our standards. We don't— we— women used to expect guys to open the doors for them and to pay for the first date. We don't even expect that anymore. In every realm of life, we've lowered our standards. And I think, to bring it back to this conversation, this may contribute to our malaise because when society sets a high bar, we'll meet it. But when society sets a low bar, we won't meet it.

Society has now set no bar, no bars.

And so that, that's the thing that I think right now, like we don't, we don't have to move out of our parents' houses. We don't have to get a car. We don't have to get married right away. We don't, you know, ever, we don't, we don't have to have it all figured out. We don't have to do this.

But half of Americans adults are not married? Half of America's adults. And I'm sorry, see, when I say this, people will misconstrue it as always defending pornography. No, no, no, he stinks. Of course, that's, that's beside the point. It's like, I'm not— if you said to me the reason that so many are not getting married is because of alcoholism, and I would say no, I don't agree, it's not a defense of alcohol. I don't even drink. Ridiculously No, no, but it happens. The right does it and the left does it. Believe me, I know about this. I've lived through it. But I'm much more interested in telling the truth than in winning people's favor. And that half of America's adults are not married is a social phenomenon, not a porn phenomenon. Is that fair to say?

Yep.

Okay.

Yep.

The— I have a feeling that the kids in my Jewish religious school, a lot of the boys were taking care of themselves, were self-pleasuring. Okay. And every one of them knew they're going to get married. The— it never occurred to any of us. This is a substitute for a wife. We would have looked at you and said, what?

Look, we don't have to get down this road again, but I think you're misunderstanding. I agree with what you're saying, but I think now it's so much easier.

It is.

And it's so much—

Right. But there again, if it disappeared, there was no pressure to marry. You don't need a woman. You don't need a man. You don't need marriage. I just read today on my radio show, I read an article in the Wall Street Journal article about how on Valentine's Day, how many Americans, especially single women, are buying themselves Valentine gifts.

Oh gosh.

Yes. Oh gosh. Okay. I mean, that's mind-blowing. As one commenter wrote, wait, Just for the record, when you give yourself something, it's not a gift. It's called money buying. Yeah, that's the word for getting yourself something. Oh, I, I— my emphasis is on the values, uh, of a society.

I hear you. Look, I totally hear you.

No, no, I know, I, I agree. I just— it's so important.

It is. You're right.

Look, I've done shows where I have asked parents Did you raise your sons and/or daughters about the importance of getting married? And overwhelmingly they said no, because they didn't either— they didn't think to, because it's a given. That's what a lot of parents of my parents' generation thought. Oh, I don't have to raise my kids with patriotism. They'll just imbibe it from— they'll inhale it from the air or they— so they didn't teach them that because they didn't think they had to or they didn't really care. They really cared that they get into a good college.

Yeah, it's true. Well, what's fascinating to me is to see the alternatives that we're seeking and we're trying to replicate what's what's been lost, but I don't think we realize that we're trying to replicate what's been lost. For instance, this is true of religion. It is endlessly interesting to me how so many in my generation disparage religion and especially Christianity. It's a white, heteronormative, patriarchal, antiquated, defective religion. But then I see that many people my age, they're religious, but they don't even know about it. They They speak in religious terms, but it's just cloaked in secular language. For instance, a big word is, I'm manifesting something. I'm manifesting that I'm gonna get this job. I'm manifesting that I'm gonna get a boyfriend. You know what manifesting is? The secular way of saying praying. I'm praying for some, but people go, oh no, religion is so bad, but I'm manifesting. What do you think you're doing? You're practicing a religion, but in a secular way. I'll give you another example. People talk about the universe a lot. I think the universe is telling me to XYZ. Guess what the word universe is a substitute for? God. Yeah, but there's a big difference.

There is a big difference.

Big difference. Yeah, they're not consulting the Bible. They're going off of their conscience to direct them in their faux religiosity, not the Bible. Make no mistake, people are seeking out religion. It's, it's, it's sad because I feel like a lot of us— and I'm sorry if this sounds dramatic, but it's true— I feel like a lot of us are just shells of human beings and we're trying to with the porn, with the manifestations, like with various things. We're trying to grab onto the what's been lost, and we're doing it in our modern, untethered, confused way. And no wonder we're not happy.

By the way, one final thing, because happily our shows go fast.

I'm always shocked. Podcast time to end. Feels like it's been 30 minutes.

I, I I do hold responsible a lot of religious folks because they didn't know or care to make religious demands, or— and certainly didn't know how to rationally make the case for religion.

You—

next show, maybe you'll talk about your experience at a church.

I was just about—

I think that's very important. And I mean, it opens up a whole new subject, but that's— my life has been devoted to trying to sophisticatedly present the case for God and the Bible.

You've done it.

And yes, I have. That's right. And everybody should be doing that.

I don't even care that I'm flattering you right now. You have done it better than anyone I've ever seen.

Right.

And it's not— what you do so well is you don't proselytize. Yeah, well, and it's very rational.

Yeah, well, it's worth talking about.

Sorry, Juliet in Virginia. It's worth a woman who said that we compliment each other too much. This is, this is really worthy of praise though, because your, your Bible commentaries are life-changing.

They're meant to be. Well, let's see, how can people reach us? Just want to say two biggies today. Your generation and before that, how do you know? How is your radar adjusted to people's goodness, intelligence, charm? You know, it's my friend who was intelligence, me was goodness, but a lot of people it's neither. Is the person charming?

Or is the person rich?

Or rich?

Is the person successful? Is the person— yeah, clout. Yep.

Yep.

So how do they reach us, Dennis?

By having you explain.

Julie@julie-hartman.com. You could also try emailing Dennis at Dennis@dennisprager.com. It's worked for some people.

Yeah, that's a good point.

But it's real. It's kind of a miracle, though. So you should really email me and you can follow me at Julie R. Hartman on Instagram and Twitter. You can follow Dennis at the Dennis Prager on Instagram, @DennisPrager on Twitter. And we love hearing from you. Thank you so much for all of your emails.

Us.

It's, it's the joy. At least I can say for myself, it's one of the great joys of doing this show. So thank you.

Bye, everybody.

Keep them coming.

Thank you.

Shalom.

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