Ready to go live with Dina and Kasia Milano, the remote real estate queen

Hello, I think we're live today. How exciting!

Hi everyone!

Hi! Um, yeah, so as you know, I'm Dina from Digital Nomad Coach, the founder of the digital nomad lifestyle We Are Freedom Seekers group, the group that this video is being shown in today. And today we have our lovely guest and my future, one of my future business partners, Kasia, and she will be talking about her journey into real estate and how she's doing it remotely while traveling the world. And yeah, she's got some very useful tips to share with us all. And yeah, we'll talk about how you can, you as well can invest in real estate So you have an income that's coming in passively from your investments. And yeah, we'll just, uh, tell you a little bit more about real estate and how it could be a great investment for you. Take it, Kasia, go for it.

Yes, thank you, Dina. Thanks a lot. Hi everyone. Um, yeah, so maybe let's talk about what is real estate, why it's, um, why it's good to invest in real estate. So real estate is simply a property, so it's either a piece of land or some parts or whole building. So it can be, uh, an apartment, it can be a commercial space like your favorite coffee shop or like a gym. You can also own the real estate that they rent the space from. Um, so why is it good to invest in real estate? So real estate compared to maybe like the known investments as stock market, crypto, it's a very physical thing. So physical, stable, it can feel, um, kind of this stability because of the physical aspect. So you can see it, you could rent it out, it exists kind of physically. Um, it's, it's, it's a way slower way of earning money, so it, it is more stable, it feels more stable. Um, yeah, so, um, two ways in earning money in real estate is either through, um through appreciation. So if you buy a property, in 5 years, in 10 years, most likely it will increase in value. And also through income. So the return on investment is through income. Why is it good to invest into real estate as digital nomads? So we are very curious, we travel the world so often, We know firsthand about great places, maybe emerging hotspots like Madeira. Not many people know how difficult it is to get an apartment there. Or, um, yeah, like Tarifa, where we are now in Spain, a great kitesurfing spot, very hot market for kitesurfers, very hard to find accommodation long term. It's very good to diversify your investments. So whether you already invest in stock market, in crypto, it's very good for you, for you to diversify. Many people do have the passion for real estate and for the design real estate, so it can be connecting your hobbies, your passions with investing your money, with earning money. You can either use it as Building money, building wealth. So through flipping, which is buying, renovating, and selling, um, or buying, selling— you can, you can find something like that you can just sell without even flipping it and fixing it for a higher price. So this is like real operational work, so it takes time, but it, it gives you a lot of money. Or just investing the money you have already earned, so maybe through through your business, through your job, you earn money, you save it, and you just want to invest your money. You want your money to work for you while you sleep. Um, so, um, if we talk about the renting out, the return on investment, the passive return on investment, it can be more passive, less passive. So some of my properties, um, um, are rented out long term. This is a very passive way. So Maybe once half a year, something breaks, I have to fix it. Usually I'm just earning the money while I sleep. Obviously, the properties I have rented out on Airbnb, this is more of a work. So it was my choice to have more return on investment, more money earned by this real estate. I put more work into it. I manage it, I manage the cleaning people, I manage the maintenance people, I manage bookings, but it was my decision to do that. What do you need to buy your first property or your second, third, fifth? You don't need to be super wealthy. You could just have some money for your first down payment. The very first flat in 2017 I bought with just €5,000. I borrowed the rest. Even the down payment money I just borrowed borrowed it from friends and family, and then I bought it with a mortgage. You just need some kind of plan. What do I want? Do I want to do Airbnb? Do I want to do long-term rental? Do I want a co-living space, a co-living place? So some kind of a plan, some kind of a team. So you have to find— so either you learn everything yourself or you find help, just like us, someone who supports you. Yes. Then you need a team, maybe an agent, maybe someone for maintenance, maybe some agent to rent it out for you or platform to rent it out. Either we can help you out with it or you can find all this information on your own. Your very first properties or very new countries, I would recommend to get some help from experts. Obviously with your third, fourth, fifth apartment you will have more expertise, you will build your knowledge, but especially at the very beginning it is recommended to get some support. Yeah, just some curiosity which markets are growing, which markets are gonna most likely grow or not grow. Obviously it's all like kind of a bit of speculation. So most likely, you know, over time they will grow, but some things are unexpected. So we also can talk about this or, um, give knowledge about this.

Um, yeah, yeah. But also, um, helping you when you're buying your first property, you have to have a plan. So you have to know whether you want to flip the property, which means buy it, renovate it, and sell it, or if you want to have an Airbnb where you get— every time someone books to stay in your place for, I don't know, like 2, 3 days, you get the profit for that. Or you can have someone live in your property long term, so they stay for 12 months and then you get an income every month. So there are different things that you need to think about, and Kasia is the perfect person to help you figure out what you need to do. Um, and I'm also helping Kasia. We've created a package where, um, I help you with mindset, limiting beliefs, and motivation and accountability. And she's just the business knowledge. She has about 8 properties at the moment, don't you? And, um, they're all making an income and she's doing it passively while traveling the world, which is just awesome. And I'm learning with Kasia. I've also coached Kasia. So yeah, it's a great opportunity for any digital nomad.

Yes, as Dina mentioned, we created this brand new program, us supporting you in buying your first, second, third property. It's half a year program. So within half a year, we guarantee you, if you really want it, you will buy your first property. We'll help you, like Dina will help you with the business mindset, There may be like, you know, many people like are just scared to take the leap if they haven't bought their first property yet. So it's a lot about the beliefs, why you might be scared of it because it's a bigger investment than maybe putting €1,000-€2,000 on stock market. I will coach you about the kind of expertise on real estate, on the markets, on how to find your property. How to finance it, what kind of finance methods are there. Because we realized that we were doing these speeches with fellow nomads and many people have special situations, like maybe they are not tax residents in a country or they are tax residents in one country, let's say UK or Germany, but they love Spain, they love Bulgaria, or they heard Bulgaria is a good market, so they would like to invest there. Many people, they will tell you like, this is how it is, like you cannot buy in another country or you need to be this and that. Please do never like listen to that. There are like plenty of different scenarios. There are not only mortgages by banks, for example. You can get lent money or like get a mortgage from private lenders. So many people don't know about that. Maybe they talk to one bank and like I know, for example, in Germany, I think we have like 300, 400 banks. So like every single bank works very differently. They specialize in different people. So maybe some banks specialize in one family owning one house and the other bank specializes in, you know, how do we help you buying 400 units. So there are so many different ways to everything. Also buying properties properties as private person versus as a company. So, um, just, just you have to— yeah, like if, if 2 banks will say no, 3 banks will say no, you go to the 5th, 6th, or maybe you talk to a, um, to a financing advisor. Or, um, there are just very, very many ways, but like people like to give opinions, so they will tell you this is how it is, is how it's like. And then like people get just discouraged um, from doing that.

So one thing I would like to mention is different countries have different rules. So in the UK, if you're putting a down payment to get a mortgage, you need about 60-70K, while in other countries, Kasia was able to just put down 5,000, which is much more achievable, and get a mortgage on a really nice property. €60,000. So that's something that is really exciting as well. Um, so you don't have to save up €60,000, €70,000. You can buy a property, say, in Bulgaria or Germany or somewhere, and it's just €5,000. And then if you're renting it out to somebody, you're getting the mortgage back. So the mortgage paid for by your tenant, you get appreciation on the property. So you're— it's it's an investment making you money, paying off your mortgage, and, um, giving you an appreciation as well.

Yeah. So Dina, and we have heard many of our friends, they're like, they have this fear of take, take the first step, buy, buy your very first property.

Yeah.

What did you, what do you think, how, how you could, um, what beliefs are behind it? Like, why are so many people like, um, seeing it as a big risk.

Um, I think people just see it as a big investment rather than a big risk. I think everyone knows that property is one of the most stable markets and it does appreciate. Um, especially 10 years ago, properties were much lower in, in— well, yeah, 15 years ago were much lower price ranges in the UK, and then it just almost, I don't know, one— not double, but a third, a third of the price more. So I think everyone knows that it's a good investment, but I feel like a lot of people maybe just can't afford to buy property at the moment. So that's why we're saying you don't have to buy property in the UK, you could buy property in other countries for a fraction of the price. And you could have an investment and a holiday home. So yeah, it's a no-brainer.

So maybe it's what you're saying, maybe they believe, like, because an apartment costs, let's say, €100,000, €200,000, €300,000. Yeah, they— maybe people think, okay, they need this money. They don't realize they just need a very small down payment. Yeah. And, and that's, that's the money you actually need. Yeah, I believe like maybe sometimes there are these beliefs also on taking mortgage that this is a very risky thing, which also is not because if you find a property of a great money, so this is what I will also show you how to do it. Obviously, you should always find a property that is below the market price. So already buying it, so let's say the market price for similar property is €100,000 and you find it for €80,000. So already just by acquiring it, you have made €20,000. And this is like, you don't feel it, but if you really went to sell it after 2, 3, 4 months, it would really be sold for €100,000 if you really made it to like, if you really, really bought something under market price. Yeah, and it's really like that. So like, you just by buying it, you already make money. If you fix it a little bit. And very often it's very, very minor works because the visual works are the works that change the value, like on the real market mostly. Because the real market price is the price that you will sell it for. So for example, like you believe you will sell a place for €100,000, maybe you will sell for €110,000 because everyone just fell in love with it. Maybe you painted it in great— in great colors. You, you've put amazing furniture in, or like even home staging furniture, which is this paper furniture just to, you know, show the space in a nicer way. It's very important, the visual aspect. But if you went to the bank and showed the papers of this property, the bank might tell you this property is worth €70,000 because bank looks at properties very differently, with a lot of kind of cuts. They make literally cuts into the price just to be on the extremely safe way. But yeah, if you manage to sell €410,000, this is the actual price of it. But people might tell you something else because only when you really sell it, you know the actual price. So yeah, it's really a great thing. You can maybe If you're really scared of it, if you really have some fears about the very first one, you can do it in a very cheap market, cheap country where the properties are not that expensive. Maybe you can do it. Like, I have a friend, we have a fellow nomad friend, she told me she bought one apartment and sold it, and second sold it, and then she realized how easy it is just to buy, sell, buy, sell. But we have it in our mindset, it's something like this big big, but it's not that big. And even if you lose some money on your very first property, but like, I think sometimes this losing money is like, you're just paying for a great knowledge. So already if it took a little bit of your fears, it's still worth it because with the second one you will make very good money, you know. And like, how much are we losing? Like, I'm losing money on stock market right too. So yeah, but I did earn a lot of money before that. It's just, you know, like we're all courageous people, we love to experience, we love to make money. Exactly. Many of us left the stable job in a big company just to pursue our dreams. So yeah, it's a really great thing to do, like we have passion about it. Dina, you also own properties, right?

Yeah, I do. So I have a property in the UK, I'm very lucky to have property. I personally have a long-term tenant, a couple from America, and they pay me a monthly fee. So on top of my coaching income, I get an income from my property, which is great. And I'm looking at buying property abroad. I've got cash now. So yeah, it's all really exciting.

Yeah. And like, we also realize how many fellow nomads own already properties. So we have been in some workshops. So like many people like own properties already, maybe Bulgaria, maybe they've bought like— yeah, I think Bulgaria is like the, the number one market, the place that everyone likes. Like, so maybe about prospects of the future of how the prices would develop, it's a different thing. But like, um, for sure they have passion for buying because it's a very big, um, digital nomad, um, kind of location hotspot. So, um, Yeah, I, I, I offer, say, like, obviously your hometown is the best idea because, like, you know your hometown the best, you know all the areas, if they're good or not. Um, you probably most likely have family there, you most likely have friends there. So, um, this is generally the, the best idea, but obviously not, not like the, the only one. So I have a big portfolio in my hometown but right now I want to diversify, so I am starting this big research on, on whole European market, and I will choose second place to then build a portfolio there. So I always recommend to build a portfolio in one place. It's just way easier, way less risk.

So when she says— when Kasia says portfolio, she means like 2, 3, 4, 5 properties in one place. That's what he means by portfolio.

Exactly, because you know, like many of us, they're like, oh, like it's just cool, it feels nice to have a property in Turkey, a property in Italy, property in Spain. But if you have bought your very first property in Turkey, so you had to go through a lot of learning, a lot of knowledge gaining, maybe you hired a lawyer, because that's what I will do in the next new location. So you've learned so much and it's going to be so much easier for you to buy your second property in Turkey rather than go and do exactly same work in Italy and then in Spain. So obviously if this is your passion and it also brings you a lot of joy, do that because you know, like, it's just like a hobby, right?

But a hobby that makes you money.

Exactly, a hobby that makes you money. But rather than that, I would recommend like either all of your properties one place. Maybe if you want to obviously invest, like if you want to have 100, 200 properties and maybe also diversify, because like, you know, market could go up and down, the economy could go up and down. Um, just like Germany, so many people nowadays don't believe in the economy of Germany, like Germany's economy is dying out slightly. So, um, it's still a very very strong economy, but many people doubt, okay, what's going to be in 10 years, what's going to be in 15 years. So I still invest in Germany, but I would like to diversify. So in case there will be something happening there, I do want to create a second location, build second kind of set of properties, which is called portfolio. Yeah, um, which maybe will be some beach town in Italy. Like, also I wanna follow my passion, I love Italy. So yeah, so maybe like a lot of people, they, they, they, they ask us about location, how to choose a location. Maybe I can say a bit about that. So I would go from, um, the highest macro you can go to smallest macro. So maybe even continents, right? Like we know a lot of people who invest in Bali, now Lombok, which should be second Bali, no one knows. Some people think Siargao in Philippines will be second Bali. Many places in the world sell themselves as second Bali, but obviously we can never know. So like, choose maybe on the continent, then choose on the, on the country. So like, I don't know, if you chose Europe because you're European and, and it's near for you, then how do you choose countries? So maybe think about possible tourism economy. So which countries do have strong economies and are wealthy countries since centuries? UK, Germany, Netherlands. But obviously these countries are also expensive to buy in there, and because it's such a stable investment, the return on investment is very bad. So in Germany, you will be earning very low money month by month, but it's an extremely stable investment because, you know, it's, it's a stable country, it's a stable democratic country just like UK. The appreciation will be most likely very, very high. If you go maybe, okay, Ukraine is very, very, very extreme right now, but maybe Serbia, maybe Romania, this could be already seen as less stable investments, but usually in these countries you have way higher return on investments. So it's very important to what, you know, what's your risk level. And this is a very, how do you say, unique, like each of us has like a different one. So like, yeah, you should never like listen to a friend like, I have zero risk, I have like a huge risk tolerance, like other people have less. So like So I should not give advices to, you know, my friends who need some stability. And I don't want to— like, maybe I should be like putting like a little more stability into my investments, but it's also very, very important to realize, just like in stock market or in crypto, the more stability and safety you want, the less money you will earn. So you will earn money, but it's gonna be a stable long-term investment. If you love to take risks, you could and you should do maybe some flipping or maybe go to some worse neighborhoods that, you know, very often the bad neighborhoods, they turn into biggest hotspots.

Yeah, they get gentrified.

Often these industrial areas or even bad areas, they turn into first like some artistic areas. Artists move there because it's a cheap area, and then it becomes like this cool area, and then from there a hipster area, then like business area. So often the worst areas ever, but like they have to be usually pretty central, they become the best areas.

Just like, um, but maybe what I would say is focus on, uh, like a good area or second best, third best for your first investment, because you know that it will appreciate and it'll go up in price. It might be more expensive than buying a property in a worse, worse area, but you can almost— it's less risky.

Exactly.

So that would be, that would be my, um, tip, um, to you. But yeah. Um, I'm not sure. Do we have anything else we'd like to add?

Um, what else could we add?

Um, does anyone have any questions? If you do, just put them in the comments if you're, if you're watching this after the live has finished, and we can get back to you personally and talk to you about, um, how we could help you buy your first, second, or third property. Property. Um, as I— as Kasia said, we have like a 6-month course where we will be with you step by step to help you buy your first property. We'll help you research, we'll help you, um, figure out which country you want to buy, how you want to buy, what you want to do when you buy, and we'll give you a clear path so then you are an access— a successful real estate investor.

Yeah, I will also create lives soon on the Facebook group Nomad Women in Real Estate. So like, I will be giving insights into real estate. I would also appreciate maybe feedback which subjects exactly you would like to get feedback about, or like knowledge. Yeah, I will definitely share how to um, how to research areas, how to find your location, how to research markets. That's, I think, one of the first questions people have, because like, where, where shall you even look for, right? Which, which, um, which area should you be even interested in?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I know it's called Nomad Women in Real Estate. We do work with men and women, but this particular group is for women because there are so many meetups for men in real estate, and there, there are hardly any for nomad women in real estate. So if you're a, if you're a guy and you want to find out more about us and you want to work with us, that's fine. Just drop me a comment or a DM. And, um, if you're a nomad woman in real estate, then definitely join the group. Kasia is amazing and knows so much and can help you so much. Much. Okay, well, thanks very much, guys. I will see you next week in the live. Um, don't miss out. I'll put a— I'll put a— an event of— an event up in the group. And yeah, we'll be in touch. Bye!

Bye everyone!