Mega Backdoor Roth Contributions with Minimal 1099 Income - WCI Podcast #354

This is the White Coat Investor Podcast where we help those who wear the white coat get a fair shake on Wall Street. We've been helping doctors and other high income professionals stop doing dumb things with their money since 2011. This is White Coat Investor podcast 354. Today's episode is brought to us by SoFi. The folks who help you get your money right. They've got exclusive rates and offers to help medical professionals like you when it comes to refinancing your student loans that could end up saving you thousands of dollars still in residency. SOFI offers competitive rates and the ability to whittle down your payments to just $100 a month while you're still in residency already out of residency. Sofi's got you covered there too, with great rates that could help you save money and get on the road to financial freedom. Check out their payment plans and interest rates@sofi.com whitecoatinvestor SoFi student loans are originated by SoFi Bank NA member FDIC. Additional terms and conditions may apply. MLS 696891 all right, welcome back to the podcast. It's exciting. We're recording this in the holidays. I think this drops not until February, so it's going to be a little wild before you hear this. So if something seems out of date because the world totally changed in the last six weeks, that's why. But some of you are listening to this in the car with your kids. I hear from you from time to time. And so for just a minute, I want to talk to you kids. All right, so parents, I guess I don't want you to put your hands over your ears because you're probably driving, but this one's for the kids. All right, kids, I get it. This podcast is totally boring and I'm sorry your parents make you listen to it. My kids whine when I make them listen to financial podcasts as well. But you know what? There's a few useful things you'll pick up in here from time to time that you'll remember down the road and to help you have a happier and more successful life. But here's something I want to tell you to do. Okay, you don't have to do it now, but in a few years, maybe make sure you do this at least once. I got a letter from one of my kids this week. This is my oldest kid. She's now almost 20 years old and sent a letter saying how much she appreciated me as a parent and included a whole bunch of specific things that she had learned from me. Put that on your to do list. Send that to your parents at some point after you move out of the house. They will really appreciate it. Hey, one thing I'm doing with my kids this holiday season is I've offered them 10 bucks if they will memorize something. And so I took it, I printed it out, and I put it in front of their toilet and said, hey, you can memorize this before the end of the year. I'll give you 10 bucks. And I bet if you talk to your parents, you can get them to do the same thing. So if you'd like 10 bucks, suggest to your parent that if you memorize this, they should give you 10 bucks. But I gave them an excerpt from a speech by Teddy Roosevelt. It was given about 100 years ago in Paris, actually. And it's something I think about a lot when I hear criticism. You know, criticism is not necessarily all bad. Criticism can be very helpful. In fact, if it's really constructive criticism, it's like getting gold. But it's hard sometimes not to take it personally as well. And so I think this is a great quote to help you learn not to take criticism personally. Teddy Roosevelt said this. He said, it is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs, who comes short again and again because there is no effort without error and shortcoming. But who does actually strive to do the deeds? Who knows great enthusiasms, great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. Now, if you're listening to this podcast with your parents, your parent is probably a high achiever. They've probably achieved a lot in their lives. They've passed on some great genes to you, and you're getting a head start in life. And because of that, you are likely to achieve something really impressive too, in your life. So think about what you want to do in life, make your contributions to the world. Don't pay too much attention to those critics. All right? By the way, if you are interested in real estate investing, we have a little intro thing that doesn't require you to buy our whole no hype. Real Estate course. We call it the Real Estate Masterclass. It's three videos. You get them by email. You can sign up for that@whitecoatinvestor.com architecture remaster class. And it's pretty cool because if you do decide you want to take the full course, after that you get $200 off it. So check that out at the whitecoatinvestor.com remasterclass, as in real Estate Masterclass. Okay. By the way, a change was just made. You know, this made six weeks ago, I guess by the time you're hearing this. But the deadline to consolidate your income driven repayment direct loans has been pushed back. It was at the end of the year. It's now been pushed back to April 30th. This is often called the IDR waiver. And so if you're one of those people with like FFEL loans, you definitely want to consolidate those so you can bring those into the IDR program, maybe qualify for IDR forgiveness or even public service loan forgiveness if you need advice on your student loans. By the way, studentloanadvice.com is the company we started because we wanted to make sure people were getting high quality advice about their student loans. I think the last time they checked, their average client saves $190,000 on their student loans. A lot of people that are helped with public service loan forgiveness, obviously, but they'll help you with refinancing decisions. How to file your taxes to maximize your student loan benefits, which retirement accounts to contribute to to maximize your student loan benefits, how to be in the right IDR program, when to refinance your loans, all those sorts of questions. If you're like not 100, it's great. It's a flat fee. You meet with them for an hour and you get advice from a true expert on student loans. All right, let's take a question off the speakpipe. Hi, Dr. Dali, this is Mike from the East Coast. I was wondering, is it possible to transfer low basis shares from my brokerage account to my kids? 529. Thanks. Good question. The simple answer is no. You put cash in 529s. I don't think you can contribute anything else. No securities, no houses, no properties, no gold, no bitcoin, nothing. Cash has to go in there. However, there may be a workaround here. What you're trying to avoid, I can tell, is paying capital gains taxes. So what if you did this? What if you gave the money to your child, these securities to your child. Right. So now they sell it. They realize the gains. Right. And at their tax bracket and then they can put it in a 529 for themselves. That might help you save some money on taxes. Obviously, the kiddie tax applies. You get a certain amount of income each year that's basically tax free and a certain amount of tax at the kids tax rate and then the rest is taxed at your tax rate until they're no longer minors. But that might help you a little bit in that regard. Another great option if you have appreciated shares and you're a charitable person, is you can give those appreciated shares to charity instead of cash, then use the cash to go into the 529. So that might be another option for you if you are a charitable person. All right. We are in one of those weeks where we're recording a whole bunch of these podcasts. We're actually trying to get a little bit ahead because our audio video person has tons of work around wcicon, which by the time you hear this will be over. So we got to do things in advance sometimes and we often batch our podcasts. That's why the one I recorded yesterday ran like five weeks ago. But that's just the way it is. But what happens when we batch them is we run out of speak pipes because the speak pipe questions come in kind of regularly. But if we do a whole bunch of podcasts at once and try to get ahead, we tend to run out of them. So I just want to encourage you. That was actually our last speakpipe question. I don't have one. And we got a whole episode here to record. And we're going to do another one later this week, which is fine. We get lots of other questions from Reddit and Facebook and my email box and comments on the blog or whatever. But my point is, hey, we'll take some more speakpipe questions. Whitecodeinvestor.com speakpipe this question comes off Reddit. The question is, if you convert a rollover IRA, in this case $37,000 to a Roth IRA, when do you have to pay the taxes? From what I understand, the IRS doesn't want you holding on to what you owe them for a long time or else they penalize you. Does this apply to IRA conversions? Well, our federal income tax system is a pay as you go system. All state systems are not like that. Utah is not a pay as you go system. You can pay every dollar you owe on April 15th for the prior year and they're perfectly fine with that. There's no penalty, no interest, nothing associated with that. There's no requirement to make quarterly estimated payments to the state of Utah or anything like that. And lots of states are that way. Not all of them, though. But the federal system is pay as you go. So you're supposed to pay the taxes as you make the money throughout the year, whether you're making that money from dividends, whether you're making that money from, you know, from your W2 income, whether you're making it from 1099 income, whether you're making it From IRA conversions. And so theoretically, when you do an IRA conversion that quarter, you make a quarterly estimated payment in the amount about what the tax on that thing would be. However, in practice, this system kind of breaks down a little bit, right? There's two different numbers. One is the amount you have to pay in tax that you actually owe in tax when you settle up with the IRS next April 15th. The other number is what you have to have paid the IRS to stay out of trouble. You still have to pay all the tax you owe come April 15th. But if you pay enough to stay out of trouble, you don't have to pay any taxes or penalties or anything. And that's what the whole quarterly estimated tax payment thing is all about, is paying enough to stay out of trouble. It may also help with your budgeting if you don't have to come up with a whole bunch of money come next April 15th. But mostly the goal is just to pay enough that you stay out of trouble, then you can settle up with the IRS later. And so for a lot of people, one of the cool tricks you can do with your taxes is you can just have. Have more withheld at the end of the year than you have earlier in the year. Because the IRS doesn't care when the money's withheld from your paycheck. They look at it all the same, whether it's withheld in January or withheld in December. Same. If you have money withheld from an rmd, you take a required minimum distribution. If you're of RMD age or if you had money, I suppose, withheld from an IRA conversion, or although I generally think you ought to pay the taxes on those conversions from some other source of money, not actually out of the ira. But my point is that you can just increase your withholding at your W2 job to cover the amount of tax you owe. I mean, this is only a $37,000 conversion. So we'll say that's $20,000 in taxes, maybe. Well, probably not that much. $15,000 in taxes you owe on that conversion, maybe just the last few months of the year, you have them withhold an extra $5,000 out of each of your paycheck. You don't have to do anything else. You don't have to send in quarterly estimated payments. You don't have to do anything else. Now, if you convert a $250,000 rollover IRA, you may not be able to cover that just with withholdings from your W2 job. You might actually have to send in a quarterly estimated payment. But the goal, of course, is to get into a safe harbor. Safe harbor means you either pay your entire tax due less $1,000, or you pay 110% of what you owed last year. That's for high earners. I think it's 100% for lower earners. That's basically how you get into the safe harbor of not having to pay any penalties. You still owe the taxes, of course, come April 15th. Hope that's helpful. All right, another question comes in from my email box. I've been retired for a year with over $12 million in investments. Congratulations. That's pretty awesome. I sold my practice to investors. My financial advisor is recommending structured notes as a way to guarantee future income without the downside of losing my money. What do you think of this? Well, the first thing I think is that you probably need to get a new advisor. This is a huge red flag to me. This is like your financial advisor recommending whole life insurance or coming to you and recommending some sort of equity indexed annuity. These are products that are generally. And each of them is individual. So it's hard to say perfectly that every one of them is this. But most of these are products designed to be sold, not bought. And so when I see. I don't know anything about you or your advisor other than these four lines you sent me in an email. But my first recommendation is you probably need a new advisor and you can find a good advisor that's not going to do this to you. @dwightcoatinvestor.com youm just go to the recommended tab and you go down and you look up, you know, recommended financial advisors and you will find people that aren't going to sell you crap like this because that's probably what this is. Now, every structured note is unique and there might be one out there that's perfect for some client out there, but probably not, you know, probably not. You've probably mistaken a commission salesman for a financial advisor. There are lots of products out there that are designed to prevent the loss of money, at least on a nominal basis and provide income. But most of the time you're simply giving up too much upside to get those features right. You're essentially buying insurance. And if you don't need the insurance and someone with $12 million almost surely doesn't need the insurance, you're throwing money away. So I would not do that. What causes people to do this is fear, right? We're worried about, we worked so hard our whole life to build this nest egg. We're certainly not going to make another, not going to earn another $12 million in our life. And so we're fearful about losing it. And they take advantage of that fear to sell us these high fee, crummy products that you don't really need. So financial advisor Phil DeMuth said this about this fear, this psychology, this behavioral problem that we have that we don't want to lose money. He said this said our psychological predisposition to take or shun risk is irrelevant to the ultimate means to reach your financial or your investment objectives. If you are a sensitive soul who can brook no paper losses, the solution is to get a grip, not to invest safely if that locks in. Running out of money when you are old. Now you're not going to run out of money when you're old because you got 12 million bucks, right? But you get the point. The point is get a grip on yourself. It's $12 million. Who cares if one year it goes to $10 million and takes two years to come back, right? That's not going to affect your lifestyle. It's not going to affect how much money you leave behind your heirs. So you don't need these, essentially an insurance type product in order to provide for your retirement security. Now if you're trying to retire on $500,000, there might be a role for an insurance product in your financial life. Something like a single premium immediate annuity, right? You give an insurance company a lump sum of money and they basically guarantee you a certain amount of income each month for the rest of your life, whether you live to 80 or whether you live to 103. That's probably not a bad idea if you're kind of on the line, barely have enough, don't quite have enough, want to get as much as you can out of it. Then it starts making sense for you to use an insurance sort of product to help with your retirement income needs. But at $12 million, I mean, just think about if that was all in a total stock market, ETF or mutual fund, your yield on that's like a quarter million dollars a year and that's extremely tax advantaged, right? You're getting it at qualified dividend rates and it's going to go up every year. So even if that was all you ever did, you probably have enough money, you're never going to run out of money. And you'll probably have an estate tax problem for your heirs because you're going to accumulate so much wealth. You don't need a structured note in your sort of situation. And I wouldn't necessarily recommend 100% stock portfolio for you, but it wouldn't be insane to have one at $12 million. Congratulations, by the way. That is no small feat. I think surveys I've seen with physician net worths, only about 10% of them have more than $5 million. So at $12 million, you're multiple standard deviations above average and you can really do whatever you want with your money and be fine for the rest of your life. You put it all in cash, you're probably fine. Put it all in ST CDs, you're probably fine. Put it all in stocks, you're probably fine. But I think truthfully in this situation, you're going to be a lot happier if you look into this particular product a lot more before you leap. Get a second opinion from a fee only financial advisor looking at this product. And I bet the message you will get is that this is a product designed to be sold, not bought. All right, a quote of the day today comes from a boglehead who goes by the handle clingfool. Been around on bogleheads for a long time. But I really like this quote that Klang fool said one time, if you care about the price of the house that you bought, you bought too much house. I think there's a lot of truth to that. I think the point is that your house should not be a huge piece of your financial life. It should be a relatively small piece of your financial life that you just don't care about. If it's like your truck, who cares what you paid for your truck, right? You're not going to care in five years or 10 years, right? But if you're constantly looking at what your house is worth, it's probably too big of a piece of your financial life. And my condolences to those who live in areas where your house is by necessity a huge piece of your financial life. Okay, another question comes in by email. I'm excited about the changes to 529 plans to allow excess contributions to be transferred to the beneficiary's Roth IRA subject to certain restrictions such as account open for 15 years and funds in the plan for five years and annual IRA contribution limits. How does this work when one has multiple children? Do I need to open an account for each child? That is, does it need to be in the beneficiary's name for 15 years or just have the account open that long? Also, does the $35,000 limit apply to each child that is for three kids? Would I be able to pass on up to $105,000 to their Roth IRAs? I'm getting mixed messages regarding some of these questions between the Virginia529 website and the White Coat Investor and other websites. I look it all up. I think it'd be a good topic for general readership. Thanks for all your help. Well, I have written this post. There's a blog post all about this topic because people have been bugging me about it since the day secure act 2.0 dropped. The problem is we haven't gotten any more clarification in the last year than we knew before on how this is going to work. But I finally gave up. I wrote the blog post on this of everything we know about it and gave you as much guidance I could. For those of you interested in this technique, it hasn't been published yet. It'll be rolled out here at some point in the next. Maybe it's already run by the time you actually hear this podcast. But at some point in the next few weeks we'll publish that blog post. But yeah, if you're going to do this for multiple kids, you're going to need an account for each kid. So I don't know why people try to put all their 529 money in one pile anyway. I have 35 529s I'm keeping track of. How big of a deal is it to have three? It's no big deal whatsoever. So just open three accounts for your kids. It's ridiculous. Try to put it all in one account. I think you may get more tax benefits by having multiple accounts too. I know I do. But nobody has clarified this rule on whether it has to be in that kid's account for 15 years or just in a 529 for 15 years. I'm not sure anybody knows the answer to that. If anyone has ever seen anything definitive about that, please send it to me. I'll do a correction, but I'm pretty sure that nobody knows the answer to that question. So better to be safe than sorry. Put it into the kid's account, let it sit there for 15 years rather than having it in somebody else's account or your account or something like that. Right. But yeah, it's definitely going to be $35,000 per kid. I think we're pretty clear on that one. It's not going to be $35,000 total. That's totally unfair. What if you had eight kids versus someone that had one kid? That's not fair. So, yeah, it's going to be $35,000 per kid. All right. Our next question comes in by email as well. I was wondering if you could help provide some clarity regarding the advantages and disadvantages of saving for minors using a UTMA account versus a parental brokerage that ultimately would be transferred down the line. It seems like you could use the UTMA and go up to the yearly IRS gifting allowance. Ideally, I'd do a Roth, but I'm still a bit stimmied about how to employ my kids legally. All right. The main difference between investing in a uniform transfer to miner's account or uniform gift to minor's account, they're almost the same thing versus just your own brokerage account, is control versus tax advantages. If it's in your brokerage account, you get total control over it. You don't have to give it to the kid if you don't want. You get to say what it's spent for. You get to say when they get it, you have control over it. It's still your money. Once you put it in a UTMA or UGMA account, it's no longer your money, it's the kid's money. It's called the custodial account. So you still control what it's invested in, but you can only pull the money out in a way that benefits the child. It's their money now. And so that's a bit of an issue. Plus, when they turn the age in your state, which in most states is age 21, it is truly their money and you exercise no control over it whatsoever. If they want to spend it all on four wheelers and trips to Cancun or whatever, right, then that's their right. They get to do it. It's their money. Now maybe they can't quite figure out how to handle a brokerage account and how to get their money out of it. Or maybe you haven't done a great job telling them it's actually there, so maybe you can get a few more years out of it. But if they really wanted it, they could get it. It's their money. So what tax advantages do you get for giving up the control over that money earlier than you otherwise would? Well, you get a few things. One, you get the money out of your estate. If you have an estate tax problem, it's out of your state, it's now into the kids estate. And so any further growth on it isn't happening in your estate. So that might help you avoid estate taxes on that money. Two, the first, and I think it's about $2,500 basically is being taxed at the their tax rate. So you know, the first half of that $1,200, $1,300, whatever it is, if they don't have any other income, maybe a 0%. So instead of paying it up to 23.8% for you, you might be paying 0% in tax on that. And then the next 12 or $1,300 is going to be at 10%. So that's a huge tax break. Or even 0% of its long term capital gains and qualified dividends. So basically that money is being, you know, taxed at their tax rates rather than your tax rates. But beyond a certain point the kiddie tax kicks in and it's just taxed at your tax rate. So if you invest it very efficiently, you can get up to about $100,000 in there before the income starts being taxed at your tax rate. And it doesn't really do you any good at that point other than those estate tax benefits that most white coat investors aren't ever going to need. But yeah, that's kind of the benefit of utma. So there are also some FAFSA applications, but honestly those don't matter to most physician families. Most physician families aren't going to have any sort of, you know, need based benefits for college. So we use UTMA accounts. That's my kids 20s funds the money we give them, telling them this is money to use for missions and summer in Europe and first car and down payment on a first house and all those things you need in your 20s, you know, weddings, honeymoons, those sorts of things. And we didn't put much in for a while because we didn't have that much. Then when we were making more Money, we put $17,000 a year or whatever the equivalent was for that year. This year we actually put $34,000 into each of our kids utmas because we've stopped funding their 529s. We think we've got four overfunded 529s at this point. Given the schools they're talking about and the things they're talking about studying. But the utmas are just now starting to get to that size where we have to worry about us paying some of the tax on the income at our tax rates. All right, hope that's helpful. More resources on the blog, you can search on whitecoatinvestor.com, ugma, utma, kids. You search children's, you'll pull up blog posts that talks about how we've structured, you know, our kids 20s funds. So thanks so much, by the way, for what you do. Your work is not easy. It's difficult. And a lot of you are coming back from a difficult day. You know, maybe I'd tell somebody their family member was dead or dying or that they have cancer. I don't know what you had to do today, but you know, it can be a thankless job. So I appreciate what you're doing. All right. Another question out of the email box. My question is about the amount one can contribute to mega backdoor Roth if one does not have a lot of 1099 income. For example, I made $60,000 in 1099 income in 2023, had expenses of $10,000. I'm in the 25% tax bracket and contributed 20% to the solo 401. I have a regular W2 job where I fully contribute to the 401. So how much can I contribute to make a backdoor Roth? And then he gives some examples. Well, here's the way it works. First of all, you have to have a Solo 401 that allows make a backdoor Roth contributions. These are after tax contributions and also in plan conversions. But basically all of your net income you can convert, you can put in there and convert to a mega backdoor Roth. So if you grossed $60,000, you had $10,000 in business expenses, including the employer half of Social Security. Now that leaves you $50,000. And basically you could contribute the entire thing in these after tax contributions and then convert that to a Roth. So that's a pretty cool feature, is you can get a whole bunch of money into a retirement account, albeit in Roth, not tax deferred on, not all that much income. Now, if you're trying to put tax deferred employer contributions in there, that's limited about 20% of your net income. So if your net income for that business was $50,000, you'd only be able to put in there $10,000 as tax deferred. If you have not used your employee contribution somewhere else, that's $23,000 for 2024, then you can also put that in. That's in addition to that $10,000 you could put in as an employer, but the total amount you can contribute is what you made. So no more than $50,000 for that business. Hope that's helpful clarification of those rules. But yeah, remember that it's your net business profit, right? When I say net, we're talking about the business. We're not talking about net on your personal income or on your personal taxes. Just remember that that's what net refers to because the 401 administrator and the IRS really has no idea how much other income you have. And that doesn't limit your 401k contributions. It's all about the income you have at that job. Okay. But yeah, basically you can pay the taxes on that income from somewhere else. You don't have to pay the taxes on it and then have that reduced how much you can put in the 401, assuming you have money from somewhere else, of course. All right, here I thought this was a great question. This came in. It was part of a series of questions. I got an email, but I don't think this is something I've ever talked about on the blog. It's related to charitable giving. It came in after the charitable giving podcast we did a couple of months ago. He said only partially related but was going to ask your opinion on matching campaigns and whether you're really getting the charity more or is that just charity porn? One charity I like to give to, an international rescue committee often has matching campaigns recently sent me a notice of someone matching up to 5x contributions up to 2.5 million. Since I was going to give anyway, I did it through that campaign. The problem is there was no way to give and get that match through the DAF. I had to contribute directly, check credit card, PayPal, etc. Do you think my contribution really gets them more money or they would just get the money anyway? I prefer to keep the charity porn away but want to maximize the benefit. Well, first of all, when I use the term charity porn, that's not what I'm referring to. For me, charity porn is those glossy pamphlets that show up in my mailbox. And the greatest benefit in my opinion of going to using a donor advised fund is that you don't get that stuff in your mailbox. They have to spend their money on their charity rather than trying to get more money out of me because they don't know who I am. I give anonymously and so I think that's A great benefit of a donor advised fund is just it facilitates your ability to give anonymously while still being able to deduct the contributions. At any rate, matching. I've thought about this a lot and if somebody is going to go to a charity and say, I'll match your contributions up to 2.5 million doll, they really like that charity, right? They really support its mission. They're probably given $2.5 million either way. So I think it's probably a little game that charities play to try to get you to donate more. And that's fine if you support the charity, give more, and feel good about it. But I think we're just playing games here. I think they're getting the money either way. So I wouldn't, I wouldn't put a lot of stock into matching campaigns, but I've watched it actually help raise money. I think behaviorally it helps us to know that our money is going to go further. But I'll bet most of those donors are not. I think they end up giving most of that money anyway, if not all of it. Okay, our sponsor for this episode, as I mentioned at the top of the podcast, is SoFi. They've been a partner with us for a long time. I think since 2013. SoFi could help medical professionals like you save thousands of dollars with exclusive rates and offers for refinancing your student. Lo visit sofi.com whitecoatinvestor to see all the promotions and offers they've got waiting for you. One more time. Sofi.com Whitecoatinvestor Sofi student loans are originated by SOFI bank and a Member FDIC. Additional terms and conditions may apply. NMLS 696891 don't forget also about a real estate masterclass, right totally free. Whitecodeinvestor.com remasterclass if you're just thinking about getting into real estate investing, not quite ready to commit to the no Hype real estate course. This one is totally free and also comes with a $200 off coupon for the full no Hype Real estate course. Thanks. For those of you who tell your friends about this podcast, it really does help us spread the word. You know what else helps? 5 star reviews and we got one recently from agbt llc who said use for all my financial planning. My only complaint. I commute each day and as of November 2023 I've listened to all 340 episodes and find myself wishing there were more. Every major financial topic has been covered with a wonderful diversity from stocks to retirement to insurance to real estate, and he has numerous informative guests. Add to that very easy to listen to podcast voice and tone all around. My favorite podcast, financial or otherwise. 5 stars. Thanks for that very kind review and for helping us get this word out to those who need this information. We want you to be financially literate. We want you to be financially disciplined. Because we know if you are, you're going to be a better spouse, better partner, better parent, better physician or practitioner or whatever you do. We just think when you remove that financial stress from your life, you're better at everything else and it's going to make your life happier. So take the principles you're learning here, apply them in your own life, share your successes with others, and we'll all be lifted together. Keep your head up, shoulders back. You've got this and we can help. We'll see you next time on the White Coat Investor Podcast. The hosts of the White Coat Investor are not licensed accountants, attorneys or financial advisors. This podcast is for your entertainment and information only. It should not be considered professional or personalized financial advice. You should consult the appropriate professional for specific advice relating to your situation.