DSCR Loans for Real Estate Investors to Fund 5 Deals

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Hey guys, welcome back to the show. I'm your host, Jon Harkar, and I'm here today with Toby Potter. And what we're going to talk about today is transforming lives through real estate investing. Remember guys, here at InvestorFuel, we help real estate professionals, investors, really service providers, 2 to 5x their business. And we do that by giving resources and tools that allow them to build the businesses they want to build and inevitably live the lives they've always dreamed of. So Toby, welcome to the show.

Hey, John, thank you so much for having me on here today. Appreciate it.

Yeah, thank you. And like I mentioned before we got on the air, I loved your tagline. I'm super excited to talk about transforming lives through real estate because I'm a life that it transformed, right? So, you know, this is something that's close to my heart, but Really, before we get into all that, we get into the nuts and bolts. Tell our audience about yourself, where you're from, you know, how you got into this crazy world of investing or lending, etc.

Yeah. So I'm from Oklahoma, but moved down here about 32, 33 years ago and got into real estate through being a broker, being a residential— back in the early '90s, you didn't have to have an MLS license. You could just be a broker and do deals. And we did all that. I had a company called Imperial Mortgage Corporation. We had about 35 loan officers. Okay. I had a RE/MAX franchise, a title company, an appraisal company. So we had a one-stop shop there.

Sounds like it.

Yeah. We were doing a lot of owner financing, helping people with credit issues, get their credit fixed, and then rolling them into an FHA. And as everybody knows, the market crashed around 2008. Um, and that kind of put us on a setback, but I really still love the real estate. I love the financing. And so in 2015, we founded Global Integrity Finance to do just that. You know, banks really pulled out from 2010. Hard money lending really was conceived on that time. And as we saw that evolving, we really wanted to jump back in and continue transforming lives into financial wealth, security, homeownership, so on and so forth. So that's how we kind of evolved this. And I've grown it since from there.

Well, that's awesome that you guys made that pivot after, after we know the market made that, you know, did that downturn, you guys made that pivot. And, and it sounds like you kind of maybe got in front of the game a little bit, right?

We got into it a little bit early. Of course, then COVID hit and put a whole nother spin on everything. But yeah, we got into it right when we saw that it was really a solid platform to lean on. When it first happened, I'm like, there's no way all the banks shut down. There's nobody doing 100% on rehab and, and 15-20% down on purchase and all these 95% LTCs. But I needed to see it. Once we saw it, we started right here in the Dallas area, okay, in a 90-mile radius. And I did a test case for about a year, uh, to our own money. So we were driving the projects, meeting with the clients, meeting with the contractors, walk them through their scope of work, their budgets and all that, and then ensuring that success through that and then seeing how we would transition those out. 2018, we became a national lender and really took this to the, to the masses.

That's interesting. So you got out there and you really— I mean, you did some hard testing on this, right? You didn't just— you didn't just really kind of put together in theory it works. You did the grunt work.

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So, uh, but yes, knowing what we were doing and really wanted to see what the market demand was, got embedded with several meetup groups, uh, real estate investing groups, and then really took those newbies, those first-timers, and we call anybody less than 5 deals a first-timer and just held their hand all the way through that process to ensure, number one, they had success, but to protect my money also. Of course.

Of course. And to go back real fast, I think that experience that you had and those things that you went through, that really adds that credibility to you as well.

Yeah.

And especially when, you know, once again, newbies, right? Newbies want to come in and they want to feel that they have someone that they can really, really trust and lean on. So tell us about that. So what got you into wanting to help these newbies, uh, you know, kind of reach their goals?

I think, I think I've been blessed my entire life. We've been, we've been given a lot of opportunities, and, and it's just, you know, the way I am about being able to capitalize on them. And, and as we were going to these different meetups throughout and getting our name out there into these networking groups, that was a lot of the conversation. Well, how do I get started? What is, you know, how do, how do, how do people break into this? Yeah. And so As you and everybody on this call knows, 85% of your time is spent trying to find the right deal.

Yeah.

You know, as I told you, we probably look at 1,000 deals a month and we fund 20, 25, 30 at the most because they just all don't work. Sure. And we would hear so many horror stories of people who got into a deal, got in upside down, the project didn't work and they lost their shirt on it.

Mm-hmm.

And, and when you really peel that back and sit down and talk to 'em, It was all about that they weren't coached. They had no idea. They had no knowledge. They went to a seminar, they read a book, they watched a YouTube, but that's not life experiences. That's just hypotheticals.

Yeah. Yeah.

And so when I was putting my money out there, I wanted to make sure that, John, if we lend you $200,000, you not only get the $200,000 back, but we both make a profit on the deal. Yeah.

And, and, and to revert back, what people are, you know, what you're saying is people were trying to, what I call square peg round hole deals.

Yes.

Right. Where you're trying to make something fit. It's not gonna work. You didn't properly learn how to underwrite, you didn't properly learn how to, to take everything into account, then you, you kind of shoot yourself in the foot.

Well, and we see so many people do phantom income or phantom profits, meaning if I'm buying it for $200,000 and I'm going to put $75,000 into it and I'm going to sell for $400,000, well, that's $125,000 profit. Chip, anybody can make that work. Not necessarily. Not necessarily. You got carrying costs, you got all the stuff. Yeah, you got so many other things that really skin realtor fees of the buying and the listing, taxes, all those things that start eating that away. And then they get to the final table and like, oh my God, where'd all my money go? Well, this is called phantom income.

Yeah. So how do you coach someone into, you know, or mentor someone as far as making sure it's the right deal? Like what steps do you, you know, make sure they walk through to be accurate, to be, you know, make sure it's a good deal?

So the very first thing we do is we get to know them first and foremost. When you bring me a deal, John, I'm going to ask how many deals you've done. We're going to talk about those deals first. When you first come to me, we're going to talk about what you've done in the past. How many? Where were they? Purchase price, rehab, exit. Can you back it up? Number one. So how many deals have you gone through? World— real life experience. Number two, we're going to find out about your contractor. How many deals of those did he do? Or is this a brand new contractor? And what happened to that other contractor?

10.

Um, and because if that guy didn't work out and you're now picking somebody new, what's to ensure he's gonna work out? Okay. Uh, and then of course, once we get a full understanding, or I get a full understanding of you, your experience, your knowledge, and how many things you know to look underneath and look behind the corners and all that, then we start talking about the project.

Mm-hmm.

And how you found it. If it's something you got off MLS, if you got it off of a wholesaler, how that came about, and to ensure these numbers are accurate. Because two things have to happen. One is the purchase. Everybody knows, if you don't, you should, the profit is made on the purchase, not on the sale. It's made on the—

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Purchase.

Why is that?

For folks that are listening that don't, that don't understand, because you got to buy it right. You got to buy it where there's plenty of truth print, plenty of equity, that's not already eaten up through some other faucet. Um, and it doesn't— once you bought it, you own it. And if you bought it wrong, you're going to lose just bigger. So it's all on the buy. How did you back into it? Here's what I think I can sell for. Here's my rehab. Here's my 70%, blah, blah, blah. Does this work? And did you factor all that in? So then we, we go over that project with you. We really— I need to know that you really know that project. You'd be amazed, John, how many people we talk to And I'll say, tell me about this property over on Elm Street. Oh, it's a 3-bedroom, 2-bath, you know, 2,200 square foot. What's the age of the house?

I don't know.

Uh, how old is the roof?

Oh, I think it's like 30 years.

Tell me about the HVAC system.

I think it was replaced 2, 3 years ago. The tenant told me it runs fine.

Yeah, that's right. Yeah. The seller told me it was great. Foundation was great.

Yeah.

So you gave me a scope of work of $60,000. Tell me about, you know, and so then we'll go. And if you don't have the answers, John, I'm not investing in you. Yeah, but what I will do is say, John, here's the deal. Here's my concerns. You're so hungry, you're so aggressive. I want to work with you. Let's partner up on this deal and let's make sure that you succeed. So let's, let's go. You and I go meet at the property. Let's walk it and let's answer all these questions together. And the next time you'll now know what to look for on the next project. And I kind of grill them about these questions so that when they do come back, they now know a checklist of questions I'm gonna ask to have all those answers in place. And it makes 'em so much better and they feel better like, shit, I know this stuff now. Before they're anxious, they're nervous, they really don't know. They're just looking at, hey, can I make $20,000, $30,000 on the project?

As a lender, you see this a lot, right? You see someone who is, truly a newbie in the business, right? And, you know, I don't have that experience, or they don't have that, um, capital. They don't, you know, they're new. They, they saw, uh, something on the internet and they want to flip a house, um, or a co-worker or a buddy. Yeah, whatever. How do you mean that? What are some things that you would recommend? Like, okay, look, these are these things that you need to know, you need to have, or you know, before we'll even think about lending with you?

So the very first thing we do is we ask, John, is there any way you, you know, however you got looped into this, is that person willing to coach and mentor you and partner up with you? How many, you know, if they've done several deals, maybe there's where you start. If they're not, because we don't want to take away opportunities, but I say, John, you know, Johnny, who you go to the gym with and you work out with, and he's been flipping some deals, He's had great success. You now want to get into it. Would it be possible for, for the three of us to get on the phone and talk and potentially have him as a, as a, uh, a partner, a GP partner for you, to where he's kind of guiding and mentoring you and you share a little bit of profit? But even if you gave up 20-30% of equity, it's a lot better than losing 100% of your money.

Yeah, well, and, and you—

so you—

so basically what he'd be doing is be leveraging his experience, his partner, other person's experience. Okay, so That is a great way for a lot of folks to get to do it is to utilize someone else's, you know, I like to say what, you know, you like, it's not what you know, who you know.

Who you know.

And they have the tools you don't. Utilize it till you get it. Right.

Yeah. We always tell everybody your net worth is work is equal to your network.

Yeah. Uh, once again, back to your, your, your little catchphrase here, transforming lives. Why is that so important to you? Why is that? The thing you put on your bio? Why is it, you know, why does it stick out so much in your mind?

Um, it's a legacy. It's generational legacy. It's not generational wealth. It's being able to say, this company, this group, these people made a difference in my life. And that's why we do what we do. That's what gets us out of bed every day. That's not the money. The money is a byproduct. And if anybody tells you they're in this for the money, They're doing it for the wrong reasons. It's if you can transform, transform lives, then you create something better that will last their lifetime along with your lifetime. And that's what gets us through all this disruption, through COVID, through the high interest rates, all this noise that's been going on. That's what gets us out of bed every day is those testimonies that said, you know what?

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Because of you, we are where we are today. Because of your firm, because of your patience, because of all that you've done, you made a difference. And it only takes one to just launch you into a different mindset of, wow, this really is important.

Yeah. And it provides, like you said, a better tomorrow. You know what I mean? It provides opportunities for folks. Now, let's talk about kind of what your business looks like now. You mentioned you are— I think you're in Texas.

Yes, sir. North Dallas.

In North Dallas. Okay. You mentioned you lend nationwide now, correct?

Correct.

Okay. Are there any specific parameters, any criteria, any minimums, anything that folks would, you know, need to know if they wanted to call you about lending or reach out to you about it?

So, yes and no. So we want everybody to call us to— because we want to hear, we want to build relationships and want to tell them what works, what doesn't. But for the parameters of underwriting in a property, properties must be worth a minimum of $125,000 or more. We don't do those little bitty $30,000, $40,000 purchase in 60— there's a ton of those out there. We just don't do them. Right. We don't do any. So here's a rule of thumb. We don't do any lending where there's more cattle and more trees than people. Montana, Wyoming, Nebraska. Yeah. So if there's more cattle or trees than people, we're probably not going to do it.

Okay. I was going to ask, are there states where you don't land?

Yeah, we don't do Arizona. We don't do Utah. And pretty much what we tell everybody, our sweet spot is you take Texas all the way up to Tennessee, over to North Carolina, down That is where the real estate bubble is. And it is a huge bubble right now.

It is a big bubble.

That is. So that's where we're hot in. That's where we love to be in. And that's where there's great valuations every day, compounding week after week.

Do you have folks in these other markets that— because obviously we know, like, you know, if anybody has done any type of virtual investing, right, you know that each market's different, right? There's a pulse in each one. So when you're evaluating, so let's say I call you up and I got a property in Oklahoma, right? And I say, hey, you know, you know, I, I, I, let's partner on this and you're going to get evaluation. Do you have someone on the ground that helps you with that or what do you do?

So, so we have AMCs, which is appraisal management companies that have absolutely boots on the ground. We won't use that appraiser if that's not his neighborhood. So number one, we have that, that's double validated. And then because of our vast experience and all the business we've done, we have brokers in almost every MSA or their surrounding up. So if I'm even questioning an appraisal, I can go to my Rolodex and call a broker, a real estate broker and/or a mortgage broker. Say, tell me about this town. Is there something going on that I'm not aware of that hasn't hit the news yet? You know, what are you seeing happening? And you may or not know, but a lot of the listeners will. Right here in McKinney, north of us, is two towns called Anna and Melissa. And they have been just nothing but rural towns for the last 50, 70 years. But in the last 3 to 5 years, we've got an H-E-B, we've got a Buc-ee's, we've got a— and it's blowing up. And so if anybody would have come to us 3 or 4 or 5 years ago to do in those towns, it might have been hit or miss. You come to me today, man, I'm throwing money at you right now because that property valuation is just blowing up. So because McKinney's 400,000 population, but Hannah Melissa's 35, 36, they weren't as hot of a real estate bid as they are today. And if you don't know this because we live here, this is where we reach out to a local broker, a local realtor, and say, what's going on? Oh my gosh, you got this huge H-E-B going in, brand new, I don't know, $15 million high school just was built 2 years ago. All this stuff that's going like, all right, now we can see the infrastructure's there. Now the residential can be coming in and the valuation is going to increase. So that's what we do to make sure when we're not in those areas as a true hotbed.

Got it. Got it. How are you acquiring your customer base? Like what marketing efforts are you doing? How are you bringing in, bringing in your, your folks?

So we do. Of course, back, you know, we started, we were at probably 30 different real estate association expos, summits, all that nationwide. We— I was on stage at every one of those I could be at. Today it's all word of mouth. I mean, I— and we are getting back to the stage. So now that we've kind of really got a lot of things fine-tuned after this interest rate hike of after COVID and then the interest rate hike in 2022, things are really starting to pick back up. Now we're going back out into the streets. We'll be on every stage and platform you can imagine over the next 9 months.

Beautiful. And we'll talk about that a little bit later off camera. Where do you see this whole trend going of interest rates, of all this? I mean, we always hear mixed results. It might go up, might go down. We don't know. There's so much. I mean, with all this stuff that has been happening in the country this last couple of months, where do you see it? I mean, like, where do you see the trend? Yeah.

So I believed with the new administration coming in, coming in November of last year, I believed interest rates would take a dive. I believe that Trump getting in the office, he would lower the interest rates, get that injection into the back of the market.

Yeah.

But the last couple of reports he has posted, he's not moving interest rates. So I think he's needing that to help continue to bring down inflation and keep that going into the deficit. I think with all the money that Musk, Elon Musk, has brought back to the economy and brought back into the, the deficit, this will help bring that back into play. But I don't think it'll happen until the third quarter, in my opinion, and I'm nowhere close to that pulse. Are you— that's where I think we're at.

Are you seeing any trends in the asset classes, like maybe a little bit more pickup or going, you know, increase in lending for multifamily and commercial, maybe like a little, you know, stagnant or flatness on the single-family side? I mean, what are you seeing in that regard?

So our biggest demand right now is single-family 1 to 4 DSCR loans.

Yeah.

So those are— I mean, they've taken over. You know, they came out in 2019, Capital Markets did and Hardline did. Came out in 2019, then died during COVID and then came back even stronger and then kind of balanced for 2022, 2023. But now everybody is jumping on that acquisition and hold DSCR.

Yeah. And for folks that are on here that might not know, I didn't mean to interrupt. What is—

I didn't think about that.

Yeah. Tell folks, explain a little bit more about— I mean, I know it is, but what is DSCR?

So it's Debt Service Credit Ratio is what DSCR stands for. And basically what it is, it's a 30-year fixed rental program, which we offer with no doc. So you can go get that through Fannie Freddie and all that. You got to provide W-2s, pay stubs, tax returns, blah, blah. We offer it just like a hard money loan. It's no doc and it's asset-based. And basically the rent has to offset the debt by a 1.25 ratio or greater.

Okay.

Meaning I got— if I'm charging If my mortgage is $1,000 a month and I'm getting $1,250 a month in rent, then it DSCRs or debt services the note.

Yeah. Right. Right.

And so that's what that is. And sorry for being so vague.

No, no, no, no. I, like I said, I understand that majority of our audience will, but just for the folks that don't.

One guy that doesn't know it. Yeah.

Well, right. And like you said, it's been here since 2019. Well, I mean, it did come in then and did like took a dive. Now it's coming back. But, you know, just, just, yeah, just so, yeah, just so folks know what it is. Are you seeing more of a trend then of that, of people using the DSCR?

Yeah, we're probably right now, we're probably 65% of our closing is a DSCR versus fix and flip. Okay. And then we're seeing a huge, huge uptick in multifamily. Every article you pull up, you just Google, you know, real estate trends in America right now. And there's 15 articles about multifamily acquisitions. Everybody's getting back into it.

Why do you think that is? Why do you think now is the catapult time to get back into it?

I think, I think here's why, because two reasons. One, we have a 6.5 million housing shortage nationwide, and it may even be bigger than that. We have 6.5 million people in the nation that need housing, and homeowners aren't selling because they went through COVID and got those 2% and 3% interest rates, and they're not going to buy because they can't get it. They're at 7% today, 6.5%, 7% to buy So they're just like, we're just going to stay where we're at.

Yeah.

So you don't have sales, existing housing sales. Construction cost is high with the tariffs going on. Construction. So now it's getting a little bit expensive to build a single-family rental, but you have all these apartments that makes more sense per unit. Yeah, of course. Yeah.

So I'm here in Boise. I'm here in Boise and I'm seeing apartments going up like it's nobody's business.

Right here, I'm telling you, I mean, if there's a vacant 2 acres of land, we're going 6 stories up right now.

6 stories up. You know what is funny is because I originally came from California, Orange County, California, and that's exactly what they did is they'd find this little small plot of land and just go straight up.

Yeah.

3 story, 3 story, sell it for, you know, $800 grand.

Yeah.

Whatever it might be.

Yeah.

It's crazy. Yeah.

So that's what, so you've got the 1 to 4 family rentals that people are still buying and turning them into rentals because of the demand. And then for those big-time institutional investors, all that, they're all going to multifamily because it's a bigger bang for the buck.

Oh yeah.

And rental income, because the, because the economy and inflation is coming down, people are starting to make a little more money. Yeah. On that trend up. And so I can start raising rents now where 3 years ago I couldn't raise rents and you had the moratoriums on evictions and all that.

Yeah, you know, and it's funny because this is a lot of common theme stuff that we talked about at our last mastermind in Salt Lake in January. It was, yeah, a lot of people getting more into the multi and that's getting back. Anybody looking to get into this business, like, you know, for a newbie, once again, any fresh advice? Like if I called you up and said, hey, I've never done anything, what do I do?

So I think the first thing you got to do is you got to get a coach. And that coach can be a partner, a financial partner. And, you know, which is the best because now they got skin in the game. You can get these guru coaches, these, these 30,000 feet out coaches, and they're good. The problem is, is that you are limited on advice and coaching and, you know, real-time answers. Yeah, you get a financial connectivity. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Connectivity. But you find one that's in your area, number one helps. Number two, one that will invest with you on the project. So that they can ensure success. If you can't get a coach to invest with you on a deal, I don't know if that's the right coach for you. Yeah, but that's first thing, get you a coach and then just become a subject matter expert in your backyard. I get so fed up with these guys who say, oh, you know, here in Dallas, you know, I've done 5 deals and I'm— and I've got these— this, you know, I've done 5 single-family you know, $200,000, $300,000 deals, and we're buying a $10 million multifamily in Florida. Like, why? Why? Help me out. Well, it's a great deal for somebody, but not for you.

Not for you. Not your skill set.

Yeah. Great deal for somebody, but not for you. So stay in your niche. Stay in your backyard. Yeah. We spent 2 years, a year, a year and 8 months right here in a 90-mile radius of McKinney. So I drove every property. Every time a contract put down, I drove to the property with the person. Every time an inspection for a draw came up, I drove it and inspected it. We mastered this right here and then slowly built out so that we could duplicate it.

Yeah.

And that's what people just don't think about. It's like, oh, you know, I did 5 or 6. I made some good money. I got $200,000, $300,000 in the bank now. I'm going to buy this $10 million property. That's fine. Do it right here in your backyard.

Yeah. The shiny objects.

You can manage it. Yeah.

And the shiny objects.

Wow.

I think we can go on for, yeah, we can go on with this forever. Any of the folks that are on here that want to get in touch with you, how would they reach out to you? I mean, you know, I know I got your socials and I'll put them in the notes, but how can they get in touch to talk with you about lending, talk to you about getting into the bid, anything?

Yeah, just, I'm telling you, you can, I'm on Instagram, I'm on Facebook, I'm on LinkedIn, I'm on every social media, which he says he's got them. But you know what, call us, 214-548-5190. Call in, tell them you saw me on this podcast, give me a call. I will personally set up a time and talk to you and coach you through it. Or you can email me, and it's real simple, it's toby, T-O-B-Y, @globalintegrityfinance.com. That's my personal information. And one of the things that I always tell is, you know, everybody talks about integrity, integrity.

You know what?

It's so important to us. It's our middle name, Global Integrity Finance. Integrity is our middle name.

I love it, guys. And if any of you don't take advantage of this fact that he just gave his personal number to you, uh, to reach out and at least say hello, get a little bit of, get a nugget of knowledge, man. I hope you got a bunch today because I know I sure did. Um, Toby, I, I, I really appreciate it. Anything else you wanna, you wanna say?

John, I appreciate it, man. This has been an honor and a pleasure. Yes.

Yes.

Thank you.

Anytime you wanna chat, let's just hook up and talk, buddy. We could, You and I could probably do this for 10 hours. We probably could.

We probably could. And you know what? I will, I will not have a problem scheduling another one. We'll do it again here shortly.

Appreciate you, man.

All right guys, everyone, hope you had a great show and we'll see you on the next one. Cheers.

Thanks, buddy.

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