Invisible Abuse, Early Menopause, and the Hidden Stress Women Carry

I call it invisible abuse because we all know what physical violence looks like, and unfortunately, that is horrific. But when you are suffering what I call suffering in silence, where you're actually being manipulated, gaslit, all of the coercive control, isolated, financially abused behind closed doors, it's very difficult to even explain it.

All right, Melissa, so we were having this conversation before we hopped on Men Menopause Mastery, about the intersection of menopause. And, and you had a really unique kind of aha moment right before we got on about your own experience that actually may open the door for a lot of women that might be listening today that maybe went through early menopause. So talk about it. Talk about what was really going on at the time that you went into menopause.

I will. Thank you so much for asking about that, because I think a lot of people, including myself, had no idea they could actually overlap. But I went through menopause at like 46, 47 years old, which was very unusual, but I was in a highly abusive marriage, a lot of gaslighting, manipulation, financial abuse. I didn't, I had no idea what, what I was in because I didn't even know what narcissism was at that time. But the symptoms of the menopause were so severe. I mean, the night sweats, insomnia, anxiety, hot flashes. All of these things that I went through at such an— what I thought was an early age were so compounded by the abuse I was suffering. I had no idea they actually correlated because of the stress, the chronic stress, the flight survival mode that you're in all the time when you're going through this type of a situation. So it was kind of— it was an aha moment for me that they actually overlapped. I don't think a lot of people realize that.

Yeah, I— when you brought it up, I was like, oh my gosh, yeah, I, you know, there are studies that show that, that a lot of stress and under, under very significant stress and especially prolonged protracted stress, you can actually get kind of an early onset of menopause because those hormones are really a symphony. So, you know, your stress hormones being on fire, you know, and then adding sort of the chaos of perimenopause just kind of pushed everything over the edge. Now, you, you have such a unique background and you speak to a thing no one speaks about, right? You speak to, you know, the idea of relationships not always being favorable and narcissism can exist in lots of different ways and different experiences. And lots of women, I think I saw Oprah yesterday, 1 out of 2 women will experience some form of sexual violence, stalking, narcissism, some sort of personal violence. And most of which happens in the house. It's actually increased. It used to be 1 in 4. And so, so many women are living in environments that are unsafe and you've actually lived through that. And I want to talk to you about that, but then you've actually helped so many women, but 500,000 women in your community walk through these doors. So, so tell me, when did you figure out the level of abuse that you were living in? Tell us your story, because I think most of us might be in that situation and not even know it.

Well, and I call it invisible abuse because we all know what physical violence looks like. And unfortunately, that is horrific. But when you are suffering what I call suffering in silence, where you're actually being manipulated, gaslit, all of the coercive control, isolated, financially abused behind closed doors, it's very difficult to even explain it. And I was an executive. I was an executive with a large company. I had a really a high-pressure job. And so when I would go home and, and what's sad is that when you meet someone, they don't show their true colors. That mask is on. They are charming. They seem like your soulmate. In fact, it's really the only time they listen to you is when they are trying to love bomb you because you have something they want. You either have status, money, maybe the perfect look. There's something they're going to get from you. So you are targeted, but by the time you realize it, You're already all in. You're in love. You're married. You could be pregnant. You could have children because the red flags do not accumulate all at once. They start showing up subtly, things that can't really be explained. So you try to fix it. You try not to hit that trigger button. You try to work harder at this. You try marriage counseling. Everything ends up being your fault. You're not trying hard enough. You did that. You made that up. Gaslighting. All of the— you do doubt your reality. And so then when the brain fog and the insomnia the panic attacks started, I just thought, you know, cause I talked to my doctor about it. They go, you know, it sounds like you're, you know, you're in early menopause, you're in perimenopause. And I went, maybe that's why I'm so sensitive. Maybe that's why I'm jealous. That's maybe why I'm overreacting. Maybe that's why I'm making things up. All of these things he was saying to me started fitting this mold of, oh, you're going into early menopause. And the sad part is we, as women, we shouldn't have to choose Do we, do we get medical care or do we get physical care because we're being abused and people need to believe us and they don't need to just say, oh, it sounds like this. So that must be what you're experiencing. People need to actually be educated on what this looks like. And I know it was years before I even realized, and I actually, a therapist, he was ordered to go to rage counseling and a therapist who was meeting with us, she actually called me afterwards one day and she said, I can't see you and your husband anymore. And I was like, oh my God, this is my only hope. And she said, I'll see you, but not him. I believe he's a narcissist. I believe he could be a sociopath. And I'm like, what? He seems so normal. He looks so normal, but that's exactly what he was. And it was the first time I ever heard those words. So it was very eye-opening for me to actually had a name to it. And then I became a research junkie, you know, getting my hands on everything and anything I could possibly read to figure this out.

So Melissa, you know, so obviously you were just learning at this time that you're kind of going through perimenopause and you've got all these symptoms. And you also now have a counselor that sort of points out for the first time, hey, your, your husband is treating you in such a way. And then he's exhibiting narcissistic behavior. You know, I think a lot of people have a, you know, the belief that narcissists would be obvious and they aren't, they're really, really charismatic. And in many cases, often they're very charismatic and especially when they have their target. But I would bet that if you look back on it now, that a lot of the symptoms that you were experiencing were being thrown back at you as the reason for your experience of failure to be the perfect wife, the perfect this, the emotional, the making mistakes. All of that. Were you seeing that?

Oh my gosh. Absolutely. Because he always blamed my job because I had a high pressure job, but I could handle the job perfectly fine before I met him. But the insomnia, the, you know, being so anxious, I was walking on eggshells all the time. I just, it was almost like I had to gauge his mood. So I might say something about something. I might approach a topic. But he could just completely use it against me at any point in time. He actually used it against me in therapy. I mean, he told the therapist that I was ultra-sensitive, I was jealous, I was actually making things up because my job was so stressful, I couldn't keep the facts straight, and he would have to repeat things to me over and over and over. I was actually worried about it. I started journaling. I literally started journaling, and I tell my coaching clients this, this is your truth. These are your words. This is something you can go back to and actually look at and go, I wrote. In fact, my journals scare me now because I have like 12 years worth of them. When I read some of the things that I wrote back then, it's surprising that you can get through it and come to the other side. And that I had to start journaling because I literally was not trusting myself to get, keep the facts straight or to maybe I was overreacting. Maybe I was jealous. It makes you doubt yourself. It makes you doubt your, your own reality, sadly.

Yeah. And then if you add to that the brain fog, the emotional sort of upset, the mood, all of those things that sort of occur as part of the natural perimenopausal experience, that would make anybody kind of question how they feel. But, you know, having that sort of driving narcissistic control, you know, over top of it, it makes you very much doubt yourself. What, so what, what are some of the everyday red flags that somebody that might be listening to this that are like, oh no, my husband, he, you know, he's, he's just type A. He wants things a particular way. You know, it's, you know, there's, there, you know, that they might be making up stories because it's really hard to recognize often that you might be being victimized, right? You know, what are some of the red flags that you would say these are things you need to like just start being really aware of?

The things that I I ask people is, do their words and their actions line up? Because when their words say something, because they're good talkers, they will promise things, they will make excuses for things. But when their words are here and their actions are here, that is a huge red flag. Those are things we make excuses for. That's just simply lying. I mean, it's, if you're going to do this and you say you're going to do this, and then you do this over here, and that continues to happen where words and actions never align, that is a major, major red flag. And we can talk ourselves into anything. Well, he didn't really mean it. Well, he was going through a rough time when he said that. When you're doing that, when you're starting to make excuses for why the words and the actions don't align, that in itself is a red flag. Write it down. I tell people many, many times that the blowup has nothing to do with actual blowup. It has to do with something that happened last week, the week before, you disappoint it somehow, and now you're being punished. They're just using this topic as a reason to attack you. And because I would, I would literally go, why are you so upset about this? It had nothing to do with this. It had to do with something that I did last week. I was on the phone. I was on a phone call too long. I got home from work 5 minutes late. It doesn't line up. The stories don't line up. The words and actions don't line up. So that's something that is almost an aha moment for people. Also, I ask people, if you, once you have a chance to calm down from whatever it was that blew up, if you can start thinking back on something that happened prior to that, that upset them. They may not have said anything because you could have been out at a restaurant. You might have been in front of family. You might have been at the ballpark. But there was something that caused a shift in their personality, but they couldn't blow up right then and there. And so Several days go by and then they blow up at home in private and you're left, you know, trying to figure out what in the heck happened. It had nothing to do with that situation. So it's one of these things that until you start putting down the patterns, it will literally control your mind. It will, it will control your thoughts and you are trying to fix something that can't be fixed. And that's where we exhaust ourselves and literally it drains the life out of you.

Yeah. You know, you mentioned kind of financial abuse, and I don't think women think of their family finances as a form of abuse. Can you explain a little bit of that? Because I think, you know, lots of people pool their money together and, you know, we've got a lot of kind of argument for traditional families and traditional that where you're turning over financial control, which usually makes my hair stand up on the back of my neck, you know, but the reality is, is a lot of women are being controlled financially and probably don't know. That that's truly happening.

Well, and when you are, when the money source is being controlled by one person, your options, if you want to make a decision, are very limited. So, and it generally happens gradually, like, uh, why don't you stay home with the children and I will earn the money and you want to have a family. You know, the spouse makes great money. So it sounds like a great idea. Well, as long as the decisions stay joint, it could be a great idea. But when it starts, well, why did you spend that? Well, why did you buy that? Was that really necessary? You know, you're really out of control. You know what? We probably want to put you on a budget because you're just spending money, you know, like there's nobody's business and I'm the one earning it. And so the little guilt trips start and then closing in on, well, you know, why don't you just have this debit card? You know, you have this debit card. I don't want you charging anymore. You're out of So then the credit cards get taken away. Then you have a debit card where a certain amount of funds are put in and you're allowed to spend within that bucket. That bucket gets smaller and smaller and smaller. And then you're asking for money. I need money to buy groceries. Can you put that into the account so I can go? When you have to start asking for permission for basic living, you know, arrangements and things that seem to be perfectly fine 4 months ago, 5 months ago, and now all of a sudden the reins are getting tighter. That control is deliberate because when you have no access to money, your choices are extremely limited, if not no choices. You know, you can't leave, you can't hire an attorney, you can't do anything. So that financial abuse, especially when you ask yourself, do I know where our money is? Do— is the spending different just because this one works, they spend everything they want, but you're on this limited budget. You're married. It's a partnership. Those decisions should be a partnership decision. It shouldn't be for one person to start making all the decisions and you are just now complying with it. Because once you start relinquishing that kind of control or even the partnership, it starts chipping away little by little, and then you're left with no control. No access. You don't even know where the money is.

Yeah. I mean, yeah, often, you know, I've, I've known women that, you know, once they sort of came up for air and recognize what was going on, they had no access. They were on none of the accounts. They had a little tiny account for themselves, but they were not on the house. They were not on the brokerage accounts. They weren't on the investments. You know, all of a sudden they have no, no resources. And then, so you're very much stuck and you know, and, and it doesn't happen like you said overnight.

No, it's, it's gradual. It's very, very gradual. And without recognizing it, it can go from what you're saying to, to having no access and everything's hidden. And that's when you find yourself really in a bind because now you are, everything you do in life is up to this other person, whether they allow you or not to do it.

So I'm gonna ask you a question and it's, and it's an interesting question and it's gonna sound political, but it isn't meant to be political. It's not on either side, but there is this very strong sort of Instagram, TikTok societal push for this sort of tradwife, right? Tradwife stepping into a zone where, where it's, you've got like maybe potentially household voting, not for or against any particular group. But I look at it as somebody that grew up in the '80s where we really fought for the opportunity to have private credit. To be able to open a business, buy our own house. That's only been 50 years, right? And, and, you know, I look at that and go, that just opens the door to more and more women being in a potential situation where they do have no options. Have you noticed a change in the last few years of just kind of— because the overall societal sort of for and against sort of argument and experiences out there are these very polarizing conversations, like completely traditional, I don't make any decisions in the household, or you have kind of the other extreme, but it just seems to be gaining, especially in younger women where you and I came from an environment where we wanted our independence, we worked for it, you know, the women before us, you know, died for it just to get the right to vote. And so, you know, how do you feel about that? I know you probably weren't expecting that question.

Well, I have different spectrums of clients. So I mean, I have women who are now 70 years old saying, I want a divorce. I don't want to be controlled anymore. And they've been married for 50 years and it's, and they're recognizing it and they want a voice. They want choices and they don't care if they end up alone. They want to at least be alone with their choices. And then I have others who are young, married slightly older, someone who was going to take care of everything. You know, you just had the babies. I'm going to provide you with a great house and a great car. And it sounds really amazing if you're, if you're thinking, well, I'd love to be a mom. I'd love to be taken. I'd love to live in a nice— if you're with the right person, then that, that could be your fairy tale. If you're with a controlling some narcissistic abuser, it's your prison. And then you have no decisions about anything. And, and I have people, sometimes they, they're looking out into this other person's world. Well, you're so lucky. You have a beautiful car. You've got this beautiful house. Your kids go to private school and they have no idea the mom is smothering on the inside because everything looks like a fairy tale. And it's actually hellacious on the inside of that house. So it's, it's interesting that I see women that fought for just traditional, whatever. And now I want to make my own decisions. I'll end up alone. I don't care. I just want to have some say. And then you have others that buy into that and they're actually buying into being in someone's spider web and they're trapped in it. And they're like, what do I do now? You know, I've got these little kids. I have no other choice but to stay in this environment. Um, and it's, I don't know, it's, it's really sad because they are, they're giving up that freedom for what looks like this beautiful future. And it's actually a fake future. I mean, it's future faking. That's the name of it. That's what it, that's the name of the actual, what they do to to, I guess, to bribe you into that situation. And it turns out very terrible for the person. Yeah.

Now you also wrote a book called Blood Does Not Mean Bond. And you, you address kind of the toxic dynamic that extends beyond spouses and parents and adult siblings. And, and it kind of moves into like, where does this often start? And it's often a family of origin trauma. And how can you tell me a little bit how that complicates a woman's understanding and trust in her own innate intuition, right? Women's intuition is amazing, but a lot of times we don't trust it because of our own upbringing.

That is true. I have clients that have, it was a parent that was the abusive parent. It could be a sibling. It could be someone your child married, you know, that makes things very, very, very difficult because as a mother, You know, you have children and you're so excited when they grow up and they get married, but when they marry into an abusive situation, it's a very desperate and helpless place to be because I don't care what you say to your child, daughter, or son about their spouse, they're married to that person. They are actually in that love bombing cycle or whatever. They have kids with them. So you actually become the enemy. It makes it very difficult for a loved one who sees what's happening to be so helpless. And you have to be, because the worst thing that you could become is the narcissist enemy. When you are the parent or the sister or whoever, and your loved one is going through it and you can see it so clearly, but they're in that trap of what am I supposed to do? Choose? I, you know, they're just trying to survive and you make it difficult. Trying to convince them that they're in that abusive situation, it will backfire on you. It will almost always backfire on you because they're, they're at a situation. What are they going to do? They're either going to choose their spouse or their family, their mom, their dad, their sister, even though it's clear to everyone on the outside, not to the person suffering. And if you become the narcissist enemy, they will isolate you from that person. You will be cut out of their life. And that's not what you need. You need the olive branch to be extended. So what I tell my clients is, as difficult as this is, you cannot convince your son or your daughter that they're married to a monster. They're going to have to figure that out on their own. And they most likely know something's wrong. You just continue to let them know the door is open, sending them, I love you, just checking to see how you're doing, love to see the grand— you have to make sure that that door doesn't get shut because when it does get Once that door is shut, it's almost impossible to reopen. And I have clients that haven't seen their grandkids or their son or daughter in like years. They're completely cut out of their lives because they try to save that person. It's a desperate situation to find yourself in very, very much, especially as a mother, because I actually lived through that with my son. Oh my goodness. Yes. And so it is very, very— until they decide they can see it and they want to do something about it, you can become the enemy. And they love when someone else can be the bad guy because they will isolate that entire world from you. And I would not wish that on anyone. Yeah.

So what is the primary catalyst that a woman often goes through? What's the typical shift that takes them from what you call the victim to warrior stage? You know, what is that? Is there a sudden realization or accumulation?

It takes actually accepting it. A lot of our videos that we do, um, and you know, I, I roped my husband into doing this with me, are reenactment and they're all about the things that I suffered. And so it sometimes takes somebody seeing what it looks like to actually say, oh my gosh, that's what I'm dealing with. That now has a name to it. Acceptance is the hardest part because You know something's wrong. You do, but you're so desperate to fix it. You're so desperate to get back to the person that you fell in love with. But what people don't realize is that person doesn't even exist. They were never that person. They were a chameleon. They were who you wanted them to be. They were who they thought they needed to be in order to trap you. A narcissist has many faces. They can be a chameleon at work. Everyone loves them at work, at church. In the community, and then at home, the mask comes off because they cannot be an actor 100% of the time. So when that mask starts falling, it's behind closed doors and you're left with the monster. So it's actually recognizing it for what it is and methodically planning your steps because you just don't wake up and go, oh my God, I hate that person. They're horrible. I'm leaving them. You could have kids with them. Your financial wherewithal has now been gone and is being run by someone else. There's so many things that add up that start making someone doubt things, but finding out and then accepting it and then taking the small baby steps, because if you're with a true narcissist, they're not going to change. There's no cure. They're not going to suddenly say, Wow, I see the error of my ways because they've said that a million times before, all lies. And then it just gets worse or they shift courses, but it won't ever change. And so you have to make a decision whether or not you are going to stay trapped in that life or you're going to start taking some baby steps. And I always tell people, don't overwhelm yourself. It's small little steps and recognizing it for what it is. We actually have a free quiz called Are They a Narcissist? Your audience can have it and it's actually 15 questions and it will, it just rates the person based on how they treat you in specific situations. So I always advise someone, if you're confused, you know, something's wrong, just take the quiz. It's free. And it'll just kind of give you a rating as to maybe they just have annoying traits because a lot of people have annoying traits, but when they get to a certain point, where there's so much, you know, they're at the top of the spectrum, chances are things are never going to change. They're only going to get worse.

So, yeah, that's, you're, you're absolutely right. Now you have a really, um, kind of nuanced, kind of powerful way of looking at a stance on forgiveness and, and how you have to look at it's not really excusing the abuser. Um, let's talk a little bit about that and how, how does one kind of release that emotional weight directly after surviving such a, such a, such an often long and horrific sort of experience.

And there's so much damage. You do have a lot of bitterness and resentment, and you're just— for the longest time, I was very angry. I was very angry. I felt angry with myself because how did I fall for it? You know, how did I not see it? And you beat yourself up a lot. So you've got to give yourself some grace that this didn't happen overnight. If that person that you finally got away from showed up on the first date, you would run screaming. You would never have had a second date with them. That's not who showed up. The person who showed up was who you fell in love with. And that's the person that you, you just were so desperate to get back. And so I had, I struggled with it because he, it's like his goal in life was to destroy me, like on purpose. So it's so hard for the brain to wrap around the fact that you married this person, you were in love with this person, you're gonna spend the rest of your life with this person, and they are your worst enemy. They actually hate you and they are trying to destroy you. So to accept that is very, very difficult. And to get over being bitter and resentment is also difficult. But all that does is hold you back. They don't lose an ounce of sleep by what they did to you. They don't. And so by letting that pain and, and that just being bitter weigh you down, you're robbing yourself. Of what you could be, you are actually letting the abuse further control you, even though you're out of it. And so it's hard for a lot of people to, because I have a lifetime restraining order. I can never be face to face with this man ever, ever again. So I had to pray about it. I had to actually write a letter. I wrote a letter to him. It was really nasty. It was mean, had a lot of foul words in it. It was very, very, very mad. But I wrote a letter about what I thought he stole from me, my life, my identity, all these things. And I was angry with myself. And then I finally said, you know what, but I'm not going to carry this weight around anymore. I'm going to forgive him for what he did. This is now on him, not me. And then I just, I burned the letter up. I never sent it. I just wrote it all down and I caught it on fire. And I have some people that tear it up in little pieces. I have other people that put it in a book and they read it. It's a way for you to get your words out because they won't let you. You can't have this conversation with them and it mean anything. It's probably the only time you can have a 100% honest conversation is if you write it down and then you just, you have to let it go. Otherwise it will hold you back and it will destroy other relationships in your life. So it's one of those things that I had to pray a lot about. And finally, I just said, you know what, I'm letting this go. I'm not going to let him hold me. I'm not going to let his abuse affect who I am. It's not my identity. You know, the pain was part of my story. It's not the end of my story. It's just part of the journey. And it got me to the other side. And so that's— you won't— you have to forgive the person that hurt you if you expect to get to the next level and go past it.

Now, you obviously went through such a harrowing experience, but you found love on the other side because I think also sometimes, A, it's so hard to leave. You keep thinking, hey, it's, it's the love bomber that I met when we were dating. That's the guy. This is something different. I don't understand. But I think there's also this fear that I'm going to be alone. Right. And like you said, some women are like, forget it. I'd rather be alone and have my own decisions. But, but for a lot of women, the idea of being alone, and some of it may come from family of origin, is very, very frightening. Right. And that what if I don't find somebody else? Or what if I, what if I don't have the right filter to understand it? And how do I know I'm going to find, you know, find somebody? Or how do I know that that next partner might be a safe partner?

You know, it's very scary because I know when I finally got out of it, I said, I am, my man picker's ruined. I obviously don't know what I'm doing and I'm never going to get another relationship because I fell for it. I fell for it. And so what I tell people is. When you're, when you're even thinking about, oh, I don't want to be alone, or, uh, you know, what if I never meet anyone else? You're jumping over a huge healing part of your life because you as a person need to be a whole person. And it might take a year. It might take 2 years. What I tell people is when you wake up and you don't think that anymore, you don't think, what if I'm going to be alone? Or what if I make a bad decision about a relationship. When that's not what you're thinking anymore, you're probably ready to step out there. But when you are happy with yourself, basically saying, I wanted to paint again. I wanted to get back in the gym. I was a, I looked, I was a skeleton of myself. I wanted to get back to where I actually liked myself, where I didn't have this hole that I wanted something or someone to fill. So I just decided, you know what, I'm not going to focus on that. I'm going to focus on the things that I had to give up in that abusive marriage that I love to do. And that there just wasn't enough time because they, they just, they squeeze all the time out of you. You don't have any time for yourself. So I took a year where I just literally got back into being happy with who I am. I connected with old girlfriends. I called people that I avoided because I didn't want to tell them what I was going through. I was embarrassed. So I just took my time. And once I felt really good about what I wanted to do with my life, then thinking about being alone or not meeting someone didn't occupy my mind anymore. It wasn't something that I thought about. And, you know, my husband now, uh, cause we met from a mutual friend, it was really, you know, one of those things that we never even planned, but he said, you know, I just want it to be the person I was looking for. Was looking for. And he said, so I just said, I want to be the person, you know, I want to be that person that the person I'm looking for is looking for, which was kind of an interesting way to put it, because what you don't want is to have this hole inside of you and you meet someone that's fabulous and they're good and nothing's wrong with them, but you're expecting them to fill this hole inside of you. So you're putting that on them. It's not fair. It's not fair to that other person because they might be your perfect match. They might be someone that you could have a relationship with. But if you expect them to fill this, then they're already coming into a relationship with a burden that you did not solve within. And so that, that is what a promise I made to myself is I, you know, we all lean on our partners when you have a good partnership, you know, you're going to have good days, bad days. One day someone's picking you up. You know, you're picking them up. But if you yourself know that you have that fear inside, then that is what you're bringing into this relationship. And it's not, it's not fair for the relationship. It's not fair for the other person either. So, yeah.

Yeah, that's so true. Now you have a method, you call it the Victim to Warrior Method. And so tell, tell my listeners a little bit about that because I'm sure they're kind of like, oh, I don't, you know, maybe I'm in a relationship like this and it's, and I no longer want to be, or I need to find a way out. What can they, what can they find obviously in that, in that method and how they can sort of start taking some proactive steps?

Well, identifying it for one thing, because most people know something's wrong inside of a relationship. And it could be a friendship, it could be a boss, it could be, you know, it could be in-laws. And so identifying, identifying and accepting it, not being afraid to accept there is something wrong in this relationship. What is it? Is it something that can be fixed? Maybe. Or is it something that can't be fixed? Because if you know there's something wrong now, it's certainly going to be something wrong next week and the month after and the year after and the baby after. And so when you think about ignoring things that in your gut, you know, are not right, won't make it go away. It's just like ignoring health problems. You know, if you ignore health problems, you don't go to the doctor, what does that do? It just gets worse. And so accepting, educating and accepting are probably the first steps. And then determining, okay, what, what is it that I want? What is it that I want to do? Because most people that I, when I first start talking to them, they want the person to change. That's where they are. They're like, I know there's something wrong. I just want them to see it. I want them to recognize what they're doing is destroying our family. And I always say, how many times have you had this conversation? How many times have you suggested this? How many times have you talked? It's hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of times. And we're just so desperate for, to fix it, to fix things, especially if you're an empath, like most of us are, you know, we're just desperate to fix. And so when I tell people, recognize our 8-Week Life Transformation is one of the, uh, the programs we offer. And it brings the person on a weekly basis through putting a name to it. This is what it is. This is what— this is— it has a name. It's not something you've made up in your head. And then small steps. I mean, a lot of it, you know, is journaling. A lot of it's meditating. A lot of it is forgiveness, forgiving yourself, forgiving the other person, learning how to communicate, learning how to set boundaries because you might be in a situation that Maybe you can't get out of it, but setting certain boundaries is a, is protection for yourself. And it could be an in-law, you know, I have people that have a decent marriage, but the in-law is the one that's the problem. That person is bringing toxic situations into the marriage and it could actually cost the marriage. So recognizing, you know, that boundaries doesn't mean you're being disagreeable. It just means you're protecting yourself. You know, you are setting some boundaries and it might be with your spouse. It might be with with somebody else and just, it's small steps because I think people, it's like when we want to lose weight, you know, it's like, well, I need to lose, you know, 15 pounds. I'm going to start doing all of these things to lose your— that's why we fail because it's like, no one's just going to lose the 15 pounds. It's like, well, maybe I need to drink some more water. Maybe I need to walk a little bit, you know, just taking small steps, but recognizing what you're dealing with and then what you're situation is and how you can potentially modify that situation until you are strong enough or in a position where you can make permanent decisions about, you know, where you want to go with your future. Just not overwhelming yourself right off the bat.

Right, right. Yeah, I think, you know, when you said everybody's— not everybody, but a lot of women are in the space of, I just want them to see it so we can fix it. Like, you know, how many years Many of us would sit in that space just because we've learned to fix people.

Yes. Yes. And we become, it's, it's, it's sad because I, you know, when I thought about the, toward the end of the relationship, my marriage, what I was allowing myself to accept was crumbs of love, just crumbs. It's like I was, I had reduced my, of what I wanted and what I would accept to just morsels. It's like, that's a hard, you know, fact to swallow is I am now accepting little pieces of love only because he wants something from me. And that's what your brain goes through when it's trauma bonded. When you go through that cycle of abuse, I mean, you know, it's, you're just praying for that piece, that little nugget, little hit of dopamine. And you're like, No, if we just don't do anything, it'll stay like this. And it doesn't. And that cycle just, it just knocks you down again. It's like waves. And what we end up with at the end is it's, it's really sad. It's just a survival mechanism and that we've allowed ourselves to take just a morsel of what we're worth and what we, you know, what we deserve as a, as a human being. And, and that, and it's hard to write that down. It's like, okay, you know, I tell people you have two sheets of paper, right? All their good qualities. Don't lie about it. Truthful, good qualities. And then write what you consider the bad qualities and how they make you feel. And people will fill up pages and pages on this side and have like two things over here. This is the, this is your future. If you are going to stay, then it's the side with the most items on it. Hopefully it's the good side, but 99% of the time it's the bad side. It's everything that they do to you that makes you feel bad and is, you know, destroying the house and the family. That's, that's your life right there is on that side of that sheet of paper.

So, yeah, I think, you know, it's, uh, it's heartbreaking for anybody to go through that just at all, but I think it's even more difficult when you don't know that you're in it. And then you look back once you start to have that level of awareness and it's like, oh my gosh, there's a gigantic, you know, decade, two decades, five decades, ten, you know, seven decades or whatever that I may have spent in a relationship where it wasn't, it wasn't safe for me and it was crumbs and, and, you know, I have the option now to move forward. So how can, so if my listeners are listening and I'm sure some of them are probably like, my gosh, I wonder if I'm in the middle of this, you know, because it's kind of a wake-up call. How can they find you? I know that you have programs and you have a large group. You've got lots of things.

Well, they could— probably the best place is to go to our website, victimtowarriormethod.com. And from there, we have tons of free resources. We've got our newsletter, our blogs, our— all written 10 books. And my books are not they're not novels. My books are, this is what you're going through. This is how we can combat it. They have a lot of workbooks, a lot of action steps in it. So it's like you reading, you're reading something and you're writing things down because I think the brain, just because you read it doesn't mean you absorb it. You're like, oh, okay, that makes sense. It's like, okay, this is what's happening now. What do I do about it? So they always come up with the workbook because I'm like, you know, you gotta take some action steps. That's what gets you, you know, to the next level. But just going through that, our mobile app, which is, we just launched that just a couple weeks ago, and it's a private way to have help on your phone. You can join our group. We've got our daily affirmations that you listen to every day. We've got our whole library of videos. We've got our education library explaining things that might not make sense. You might be co-parenting with someone and that is really challenging. And it also has, we do live events on it as well. So they can, you can join anonymously or you can, um, you know, Just say your name, but it's, it's a place that allows you to feel seen and heard where it's very difficult to explain to someone who's never lived through it because the person you're with seems so normal and people are, what? That's no way. And so then you feel, then you hide it and then you make excuses for it and you, then you're more isolated. So it's kind of a place, a safe place where you can actually talk about anything you want to talk about, and you're talking to people that actually get it.

So that's great. That's great. So we'll make sure that we have that correct link and everything in our show notes. So, so everybody can get to it. So if you had one parting statement that you could say to any of the women listening today, what would be that one like nugget that you would like to share?

Probably that the pain that you've gone through doesn't define you as a person. It's just part of your journey. And that's something that I carried with me for a long time. It's, uh, it actually led me to do this. I mean, I took an early retirement and I thought, you know what, that was the worst time in my life. And I just, I want people to understand there is light at the end of the tunnel. It's just not giving up, not giving up, uh, knowing that, uh, this is not, this isn't your fate that you're just, well, this is my life. I just shouldn't accept it. No one has to accept a life of pain and abuse. It might be where you are now. But it doesn't have to be where you stay. And so there is light at the end of the tunnel. You just have to take the first step. And that's actually just saying, I think I need some help. I think I just need to know more about this.

And that's it.

Just that one step can actually change your life and your children's life and, you know, your whole future. Yeah.

Potentially generations to come, you know?

Mm-hmm. Yes, absolutely.

Absolutely. Well, Melissa, this has been a fantastic conversation. Thank you so much.

Thank you so much for having me. I really enjoyed it. Yeah.

And I think it's hopefully illuminating some things for, for listeners. You know, I'd love to believe nobody has this experience. I'd love to be able to say nobody has this experience, but we know statistically it's saying otherwise. And so, you know, like you said, the first, the first opportunity is knowledge is power and we have to be first aware, aware with it. And so thank you everybody listening. Thank you for listening to Menopause Mastery. If you happen to be catching us on your favorite podcast platform, if you happen to be watching us on YouTube, please don't forget subscribe and leave a comment below, or if you have a question or something you would like for us to talk about, and I'll be back with you next week.