Dr. Betty Murray and Dr. Romie Mushtaq explain how perimenopause and menopause symptoms like depression, anxiety, and brain fog get dismissed as stress, costing women their jobs. A 47-year-old executive thought she was burned out; she actually needed hormone replacement. A study of 17,000 workers found women in their 40s and 60s are being pushed out involuntarily.
Questions this episode answers
November 2025
17,000 individuals
Women are being laid off at a rate 15 times higher than men (as claimed in the episode)
Chapters
What are the biggest symptoms of perimenopause and menopause that really translate into all parts of somebody's life? And I would say to me, the big three that I think about is depression, anxiety and insomnia. Because not only do they affect how you live your life, like dealing with your family and whether you're present and how you feel, but they are absolutely 100% also going to affect and how you are operating in a workplace that doesn't respect that you are different than your male counterparts. Because we have a hormonal change that's going on that is driving it behind the scenes.
So agree. I so agree. I want to backtrack and say, I think that's menopause. There are symptoms that start showing up in perimenopause a lot earlier and to. I'm so thankful that menopause is having its moment in the media and on social media, but I think too many women in the workplace are like, well, I'm not having hot flashes yet and, or my libido or I don't have a dry vagina, so they think they're fine. So thank you for bringing up the brain and mental health. In my research in the Busy Brain Cure, we looked at 17,000 individuals in the workplace and what chronic stress was doing, specifically in women. I think even before the symptoms you talk about, a few things show up. Ruminating, anxiety, brain fog, and then the insomnia, the depression, the fatigue may come later. And I want to tell you about an executive that I'm desperately trying to help right now, Dr. Betty. And I think if I tell you about her, she's given me permission to talk about her podcast. We're going to use a fictitious name and a fictitious company. I work with many corporations. Um, she's one of my executive coaching clients. So let's call her Sarah. Sarah is 47, but she looks older than stated age. She has a teenage daughter that just went to college who's having mental health crises. And so she's put her daughter's health ahead of hers. She is a high level HR executive in a, in a large company and I see her having these symptoms. She tells me she's in a brain fog and on a Microsoft Teams meeting and we're not. She's not allowed in that company to use AI. So she's having difficulty taking notes and keeping up with what's going on in the meeting and she'll leave the meeting with to do items and can't remember it and is struggling to read her notes and Figure it out. She is. She thinks it's just stress because of what's going on with her child. And her chief complaint to me was, I'm about to quit my job. And I was like, are you kidding? In this job market, you can't. And when I dig a little deeper, she's having that brain fog and difficulty sleeping. And I sent her for labs, and, you know, we're going to unpack it. She definitely has Hashimoto's. She has the early labs that we would start considering hormone replacement therapy, especially progesterone. And she's in denial. She's like, I still have my period. My mom didn't have menopause until she was in her mid-50s. I don't need these medicines. It's just stress, and I need to quit my job. And how many women listening can identify with Sarah right now? Somewhere in your 40s or 50s, somebody, even primary care doctors, gives you the message, you know what? You're a busy mom. You shouldn't be at work. You're past your prime. This is a game for women in their 20s and 30s. Stop climbing the corporate ladder. Just exit the workforce. And right now, there is a force that is exiting women out of the workforce. You and I are recording this interview in November of 2025. I'm looking at the labor and the unemployment data that is available. Some of it is hidden. And women are being forced to exit the workforce, I. E. Taking involuntary leave, being laid off at a rate 15 times higher than men, especially women in their 40s, 50s, and 60s. So we have this crisis where women are not being given the right information about their hormonal health. They take on this personal shame that I'm failing as a mom and I can't be working. And then they're easily being pushed out of a contracting workforce.
