056 - From Student to Leader: The Journey to Clinic Director with Dr. Danny Otis

That's why I call it practice. You're continually doing it, you're continually evolving, you're continually growing, which I feel like TRP does such a good job too. They're always adding new stuff to it and for it and refining it. And it's like, that's no different than practice. So I think part of that is it's like that's super helpful than onboarding because then it's like, then I don't have to think and come up and spend all this other time trying to then fill in all these gaps. I feel like I don't want to say it's like done for you because you still have to put in the work.

Yep.

It's laid out in a way that's so supportive and conductive to growth if you allow it and put in the time to make it happen.

Hello and welcome to Build you'd Remarkable Practice Podcast. This podcast is dedicated to chiropractors who are in the seasons of launching and building their practice. Join myself, Dr. Lona and my co host, Dr. Bobby as we have conversations each week as it relates to building the practice of your dreams. And remember, you can have a remarkable practice as part of a remarkable life, not instead of one. We are here to lead you on the way.

Welcome back to Build you'd Remarkable Practice Podcast and I am super excited. I get to interview one of my favorite humans, my favorite chiropractors, my right hand man, our clinic director, Dr. Danny Otis today. So welcome Dr. Danny. Thanks for joining me for a podcast interview today. I get to see you every day, but this is different because we get to do it on Zoom today. So welcome.

Yeah, this is great.

Awesome. Okay, so why I asked Danny to be on the podcast is Danny has been integral in us adapting into more systems in our office and really squeezing the juice from our TRP membership and implementing so much of what the systems in TRP are. So I wanted to ask him a little bit of his experience because he started in TRP as a story student and then as he's come out now, we're celebrating five years in practice together. You know, like how foundational TRP has been to the success in our practice and starting with it right from the get go, just some of his thoughts. So Danny, when you think about beginning at the end of school with trp, what did that mean for you and how, how helpful was that?

Yeah, super helpful. I think our first one, I remember going down to Dallas and I remember just sitting there and just being like, whoa. I feel like I Was coming into my last year, we were just starting in clinic and I remember just there were so many conversations that came up and it was like, how do you help lead people? Because you've never really been in this role. I've done a lot of different things with just taking care of people and helping people with different things, but never really had to have some of these conversations. So it's like, well, where do you even begin? So I feel like the build was pivotal because it was nice that I was able to start to integrate it in and kind of really do a trial and error in clinic with it. And so I could really start to integrate a lot of those things. But what I loved about it was it was laid out very clearly and especially with the build program, with the calls. It wasn't just like drinking from a fire hose, it was laid out saying like, this is where we're starting, this is where we're going and we're going to chunk away at it as we go. And I was just chatting with you. It's like the best way to eat elephant is like one bite at a time. And that's how it's laid out. There's so much good information in nuggets. And I think when I ended up going through it, we went through the build twice, I believe. And before starting that too, I was able to go through all the material just about one time before graduation. So for me I thought it was, it was perfect. I think probably one of the biggest things was just like day one, day two, what do you, what do you say to people? How do you present yourself? What are just the non verbals, different things like that as well as how do you start planting the seeds of what it is that we do to help set up what you're doing later to be even more effective. I think two of being from the Midwest, as you know, everybody's very passive aggressive of here. So I think we choose to use minimizing language, myself included. And I'm still working on this, but I think just again choosing and learning how to utilize more powerful words when you're not only a report of findings, when you're having table talk with people as well as just leading them on their first adjustment to just start to build that trust, what does that look like? And then really understanding how people who are sitting across from you, like what are they going through? I think therapy does a really good job at that. One of the first things that comes to my mind is like the Hawthorne effect, like people like to be measured right so how do you actually explain what you do in a smart, intelligent, ordered way to again, kind of build. Build chiropractic up so that it's an easy and smart choice for them. So those are some of the first things that come to my mind. And I can definitely unpack more because there's just so many good things from.

This so well, and, and I love that because, you know, I, as a client of trp, had come in at the same time Danny and I were like onboarding the conversation of would he become an associate in our office. So we really came to our first P immersion together.

Feeling it out and I ended up signing up and then Danny was like potentially going to be joining our practice. So it was really wonderful that both of us just started to like hit the ground running. I was learning the CEO content, he was learning the build content, which was more system based and like he said, communication and how do you really lead the patient through the patient journey and what are all the, the steps in the process that sometimes we're undermining ourself in what we're growing because we skip a step, right? So what I realized was that the two of us doing this together, it allowed me to focus on the CEO content, knowing that I had a team member that was going to spearhead learning and bringing in the build systems to our practice. And coming in, I thought, oh, we already have decent systems, but man, like he said, eating an elephant, right? The more you start to just allow the content to become alive in your practice by putting one step in front of the other of like, oh, that was a great idea. How do we implement it? That was another great idea. How do we implement it? That's where now we're five or six years into this and really starting to see like, man, we've really implemented a ton in the last five years and that it's made all the difference. So, you know, I can't speak enough to having someone that you're trusting and also investing in like their development in, in any system that you're creating. So Danny has been so important to us being able to better our systems because I could rely on him to take ideas, bring them back to the team, watch the content, implement content, and also know that, you know, he's being trained as a new doc to come into the proctor, the practice. And so now again, we're five years in. Danny is now our clinic director and we have other new docs that we've been training. And so that's my next question for you. Danny is as assumed more leadership in the practice as you've developed as a chiropractor. Now, how do you see the value of. Of having something like TRP systems to onboard new CAs and new DCs so that they have some content that isn't necessarily always having to be, you know, your time being spoken to them, where they're learning?

Yeah, I think it's just that it's like your time. Right. Because obviously as things get more efficient in the office, more people are being seen. So then when you're able to then take that time to help again, onboard people, I think when it's laid out, I think, I can't remember what it's called, but in one of the modules, it's just like the onboarding checklist for a new dc. They have it for the cas, they have it for office, everybody. I mean, they have everything. Right. So I feel like with that, it's so helpful because, like, okay, maybe I have a blind spot here because naturally I may have picked that up super easy, so we didn't actually have to train on it a ton, but. But that box was checked anyway, where all of a sudden it's coming up. But it's like, okay, did I actually talk about this? Because when I was going through it, maybe it was a different experience because everybody has different personalities. And I think that's one of the strengths too, is because they do divide a lot of roles in the office up in a way that is supporting people's strengths. So I think that's also super helpful, is not only recognizing where people are starting, but again, helps lead them to where they need to go. And I think too, it was just encouraging because now, at this point, going through it as many times as we have, it's like you can't keep learning it enough. You always pick up something new. So encouraging. Then somebody who's onboarding, it's like, okay, well, yes, it may feel like you're drinking from a fire hose at first because you just graduated, but like, that is the start. That's why I call it practice. You're continually doing it, you're continually evolving, you're continually growing. Which I feel like TRP does such a good job too. They're always adding new stuff to it and for it and refining it. And it's like, that's no different than practice. So I think part of that is it's like, that's super helpful than onboarding because then it's like, then I don't have to think and come up and spend all this other time, trying to then fill in all these gaps. I feel like I don't want to say it's like done for you because you still have to put in the work. It's laid out in a way that's so supportive and conductive to growth if you allow it and put in the time to make it happen.

Yep, yep, I agree. I think that's one of the things that I see in some of the, the clients that I get to coach is how we may think that we are training, but we're not doing it often enough, our team or in the details enough. So one of the big shifts that I know you and I realized was that we may have had processes for like day one, day two, but we didn't split them down into the like, smaller steps necessarily. Like breaking TRP breaks day one down into like, you know, you'd train on it for several weeks with your practice in order to like really hit the little things, like the little things of the patient greeting, the little things of like what happens when you're walking to this area. You know, you can really refine that if you have a system for training on some of these things and you have a time in your week that's delegated to like, this is what we're doing every week is we're just methodically progressing through our systems so that every six months we've made it through the entirety of our system. Because you and I both know that even in the last five years, how much has changed too, and just how much technology is available to us to use in practice. And so I only imagine that that's going to keep accelerating where there's like new ways to engage with people, because we can have technology doing certain things for us. So that requires us to have attention to detail in our smaller, more detailed parts of our process. And that's why I love having something like the TRP curriculum to entice the whole team to stay in a training rhythm with each other. I guess. Deanie, if you were giving a newer grad or maybe someone who's about to graduate advice on, you know, they may be looking for a system to train in or trying to decide if they should spend money to have one on one coaching, you know, what would be your thought process there?

I think do it. It's only, it's only going to help you. I feel like it's not necessary. I mean, it's about you, but it's not necessarily about you because when you get better, you help more people. So I feel like, when there's people who have been able to be there and do that before you and help usher you in. Also remember that when you're 5, 10 years, 15, 20 years down the road, it's like, make sure to do the same thing. Because I do think that this profession is so special. So also, if I was going to say something, congrats on entering the best profession in the world. Yeah, I don't know, it just gets better every day. And I feel like the more you learn, the more you realize you don't know, but the more you feel like you know, the more you feel like you can help. And then I just feel like it's this constant cycle of that. So again, if I were to say anything to a new grad, when you invest in yourself, it pays off tenfold. Because if you even just dial it in, like we always are looking at metrics and our scorecards with trp, it's like if you don't measure it, you're not going to grow it. And it's like fuzzy targets don't get hit. I know Steve Fransen is always saying that, and I love that because it's so true. It's like if you're unclear on where you want to go and you don't necessarily have the pieces to help fill that in, sometimes it can feel really hard and overwhelming to get there. So it's nice to know that you have people in a community to really be a part of and look forward to. I know, like, we were just down in Tampa. What was that, a month ago? Two months ago now?

At this point, about two months.

It's just like every time so you run into people you're on their calls with, it's like you hear them, like, you know, smashing their goals and then we're doing well in our office and it's just like, it feels like you all come together and really just have this support that I think is needed because again, we have this, the best profession on earth. So I think if it coming out of a new grad, that would be the advice I would take. It's just like, yeah, it may seem harder, an uphill battle, but it's just like think of all the money you would also waste not doing it, because all those opportunities potentially could be going out the door. Because maybe you didn't say, I don't want to say, didn't say the right thing, because maybe that's not the right way to put it, but could be saying something more powerfully. More powerfully.

But I want to like put a plug in for Dr. Danny here because, you know, he, this morning actually we had our doctor's training in the office and he has been taking, I want to say the acp, but it's the LCP Philosophy Diplomat. And so he's sharing that with our team. And you know, again, this idea that we're going to be collectively growing each other. Right. And so a true team is like bringing together people with different skill sets. And you know, at first you may be the teacher and then eventually you may be the learner. Right. And so Danny was empowering all of us by going deeper in the philosophy this morning and sharing some of what he'll be presenting on as he goes and presents his paper in the next couple weeks in the Philosophy Diplomat. And you know, that ability to have a team that's built around you that is continually being developed and or is in it to continually train and get better is then how everybody just keeps raising the bar for each other, right. And that keeps it fun, Right. Because nobody wants to really stagnate. So, you know, whether it's TRP and learning better systems and helping, you know, your new associates or your new CAS gravitate into the culture, like that's to me a no brainer to invest into your practice. But then things like Dr. Dini where he's like, I've got a passion for the philosophy, I'm going to go deeper and then he can come back and actually deepen everyone's philosophy by what he's learning and then amalgamating and dispersing to the rest of the team. So Danny, I guess that my last, my last question for you here would just be like, you know, when did that really connect to you? Of like, you know, I'm going to just go out of my way to get uncomfortable because I know that it can be uncomfortable doing things like that to realize that even though I've already got my degree, like I'm just beginning on my journey of like really going into this profession with full force. Like, how did you, I don't know, just kind of take that leap to like do something like the LCP or you know, just continually push the bar, whether it's at Syntropy Con, you know, conferences or things like that.

Yeah, well, I think that's a beautiful part of our profession because it's not just like a, if you will, one trick pony. Like I don't feel like it was like we're a science, philosophy and art. And then if you don't have a business behind like, you know what I mean?

It just gotta be able to deliver it.

Exactly. You have to be able to deliver it. There needs to be systems to be able to promote what we do. Because I do think what we have is, is sacred. And I think there is no other profession that has this. So I guess for me, just like, it's like, I feel like the more I start to learn about, you know, the science, it's like cool. Then I'm excited, like, well, how would you actually explain that? Simply to have somebody understand it to make them feel like, yep, this is a great choice for me. This just makes sense. But also not like bore them down with the details. That's where like TRP comes up with a lot of great different roadmaps on how to help really educate and communicate people in the right way. That's constantly putting drips without again just drinking from a fire hose. Because no, when we talk about the science, it can get heady. But then it's just like, well, it's like, well, if we're looking at the science, why are we looking at it? It's like that's the philosophy. That's the main thing that ties it all together. And why, what we do, what we do. And then it's like if we know what's happening, we know why we're doing it. It's like, well then how do you apply it? And I do feel like that's where the art comes into play. And it's all those things and it's kind of like you're juggling and then you feel like you're kind of getting juggling good. So I'm going ball. And it's just like it's never ending. And it's just kind of like. And I can't juggle. So I don't know why I use that analogy. But I think that that's what kind of drives me, I guess. And I think that would. Is what inspires me is just this profession to not only reach out for trp, but different adjusting, different philosophy and really just trying to bring it all together. Because again, it's not really about us. I feel like this is. We were talking about it this morning too. Like that's. That's a sacred trust that was bestowed upon us to be able to carry this profession. And one of the things we also always say is like leave it than when you found it. That was like growing up when I was playing hockey, every time we would go like out of town tournament or do a different rink, the coaches would Always say, we're not going to be the team that leaves the locker room dirty. There's stuff everywhere. You're going to leave it better and cleaner than when you found it. And I feel like that's the only way to treat this profession because it is the greatest profession on earth.

It's a good mentality for life, for sure. One of my early mentors would just kind of say that as it relates to humans too. Like, if everyone can say I'm better for having met this person or having been influenced by them, you know, like, that would be a life well lived, you know, and. And that reminds me too of, like, when it comes to juggling, because we'll stick with your analogy there. Like juggling. Yes. Going deeper in your philosophy and your ability to deliver the. The goods. Right. And be able to communicate the goods. And then, you know, if you're listening to this and you are a business owner, like your business is another element of that where you have to be able to run the business in a way that businesses are meant to make money and be sturdy so that they can exist for a long time. Right. So where you feel deficient, either hire someone who is good at those things and. Or start taking the seminars and the mastery level things that you're going to need to do to get your, what do they say, 10,000 hours in so that you can start building up where you're weak. And I think that's how we take this profession. That is how we guard it well, where we have to be able to do all of those things. Maybe not each one of us do all of them, but be able to make sure that we're stewarding it well by seeing where we either are deficient in hiring that person and. Or where we need some training and we go get it instead of shying away from our weaknesses. So anyways, Danny, thank you for spending your time with me right now. I appreciate this. You can follow us on social media and I'm sure if you find Danny, he loves social media. I'm just kidding. So you won't find him on Instagram, but if you wanted to get ahold of him, send me a message on my social. I'm on Instagram. And we will see you on the next episode of Build you'd remarkable practice. Hey, everyone, please listen in for this next bonus interview of one of our remarkable success partners. They all help us help more people find the benefits of chiropractic support. So listen on.

All right, guys, Dr. Pete Camiolo here, excited to be in the studio, My studio. And Mark's in his studio recording and just going to have a great discussion here today with Mark Murdoch from Aspen. The I actually got to meet you, Mark, for the first time in person. We were in Tampa. It was so good to meet you. Being together in the room. I love your energy and I love what you're doing and what you're up to. I was actually introduced to you by Franton and I know that you've been running with the UAC Group and man, you're doing great things in our space and I love that you've got a heart to help chiropractors, help more people to solve problems that people have, drive greater impact, drive greater revenue and doing in a way that's remarkable. So we're honored to have you and your company. You guys are success partners and we're excited to have you on board here in 2025 and excited for big things that are coming and things that are already happening. So. So Mark, why don't you just little intro who you are to our audience. You know, we've got chiropractors listening in from all over the world.

Yeah.

And they love learning and they love being remarkable CEOs and building remarkable businesses and doing it in a more remarkable way. So you know, who are you? And give our audience a little taste of who's who they're listening to here today.

Yeah.

Thanks Pete.

I appreciate it. Good to be on.

Yeah.

My background is actually I was a college basketball coach for 17 years up until 2010. That was my true passion in life. I thought I'd do it forever. God had different plans and I got out of coaching in 2010 and was fortunate enough to be on the team that introduced whole body cryotherapy technology into the United States as a business model. Had never been done. 2015 was on part of the team that introduced what we would call medical grade whole body light therapy to the US market. There was aesthetic based whole body light before that, but not really what we call medical grade. And I've just been doing consulting and have about 400 chiropractors that are personal clients and about 35 professional athletic teams, about 35 Division 1 athletic departments that we do both laser and full body light therapy with and consult with and grow. I've been the CEO with startups, two startup companies and taking those to Inc 5000. I've been an employee. I've been a guy that's out there doing this stuff every day and trying to get it off the ground and then been at the other end. So got a pretty good depth of experience. I don't know what they call it knowledge. I call it a lot of failure, a lot of dumb tax. And I can tell people definitely what not to do.

Well, I love that we're in good company then, you and I and then everybody that's listening to this because I think we could all relate with you. We've all been in the position where wear all the hats. You know, we're doing everything from attraction to conversion to retention to the team building to collections and doing it in ways that we failed and doing it ways that we are successful. The beautiful thing for you is that you've learned through your journey and you're now at this stage and you're, you're coming into a remarkable practice community of doctors who are just hungry to learn and really, you know, enthusiastic about new ways to reach the people that they're serving, their communities. And that's why when you and I discussed what you're up to, I said, man, you would be a phenomenal partner with remarkable practice. And so obviously you and I, we were able to meet at the event. You came to our first event in 2025 and it was just awesome to have you there and just getting to see what you're doing and learn more and it was awesome. So, so happy to have you as an expert and guest here on our podcast here today. So, you know, my first question for you, honestly is tell me a little bit more about what you're up to now. Aspen, Sarah, Ly, what you guys are doing. You know, I want our audience to really have a full understanding of what it is that you're up to and, and why you've chosen to, to work with chiropractors and how you're helping these guys.

Yeah, I mean, photobiomodulation is what we call light therapy, the scientific term. So if you go under PubMed and search and you search photobiomodulation, there's about 81 different names that light therapy is called around the world. But photobiomodulation is our science term. I have a love for it because in, you know, 35 years in human performance, human development, and the last 14 in really chiropractic world, I've never seen anything that moves the needle more for patients health for patients, immediate impact on their body, for long term impact on their overall health and wellness and not just quantity of life, but quality of life. So it became a passion for me and I kind of left everything else behind. And it's 99.9% where I spend my time, because I don't see a bigger way to impact more people around the globe than by helping practitioners impact their patients. I'm not a practitioner. I don't have a skill with my hands. I don't have probably any tactile ability or any of that, but I can put modalities in the hands of chiropractors that may reach literally millions of people around the world without me ever meeting them. And that's a real joy to me as a coach, as somebody who doesn't come from a sales background, I never have. I just do everything as an educator and a coach, and that's my passion, is to teach people about photobiomodulation and light therapy therapy.

I'll tell you something, when you started breaking this down for me, I was just like, man, this is gonna be such a good podcast episode in time for us to meet. So, you know, we use a term, subluxation, which is hard enough for people to understand. And so we try to make it simple for people. For you, photobiomodulation. Say that 10 times fast.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

So, you know, and you said this is light therapy is what the they call it on the street, but what it actually is is photobiomodulation. Talk to me a little bit about this. What is it? What is it actually doing?

Yeah, so light therapy is actually chemical medicine. People think it's like an infrared sauna. Well, that's not chemical. That's. That's heat that deep heats the tissue from the inside out, causes you to sweat out toxins. That's far infrared. We're talking about red and near infrared, literally two opposite ends of the spectrum. What, what light therapy does is it, it goes in as waves of light, rays of light. And your, your body has molecules called chromophores, which in Latin, those two terms, chromo and four, mean color lover. And every ray from the sun, every wavelength is a different color. We can see the red, the blue, the green, the yellow. We can't see the many, many near infrared spectrum, but they all have actual colors. So every wavelength is a different kind of photochemical response in the tissue. So when that light comes in, hits a chromophore, that triggers a chemical response in the tissue that has two primary functions. But that chemical response is dose based medicine. That means a person who is 65 pounds, a person who is 110 pounds, a person who's 250 pounds, you would never give the same dose of chemical medicine. Aspirin, tylenol, morphine, Right. You would have adverse or no reactions if you gave them the wrong dose. Light is the same way. You have to give the person sitting in front of you the appropriate dose and the appropriate dose for them at whatever stage they're at. Because your dose should actually, if you're doing it right, should decrease as that person heals. So it's pretty important. But those two main chemical reactions are. Number one, it disassociates the nitric oxide particle from the oxygen. And as you go back to your time in school, when we looked at chemistry and photochemistry and what's happening is oxygen is supposed to flow into the cell, supposed to flow into the mitochondria. The mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell and uses that oxygen to produce adenosine triphosphate, ATP. It's what every cell in the body uses for function. What happens as we age and we get exposed to environmental factors, toxins, lack of sleep, stress, too much exercise, not enough exercise, Right. Most people fall in the not enough. Now we have a lot of the too much bad nutrition. All of these things impact our bodies. What happens now is that oxygen flows into the cell and your body has built an abundance of nitric oxide, which is a nessie necessary anti inflammatory property. But when it builds an abundance, that nitric oxide needs a job. And the job it does is it goes on and latches itself on to that oxygen particle. Now you have two problems. That oxygen particle cannot go into the mitochondria. So your ATP level drops, cell function slows or stops. The second real problem is the binding of oxygen. And nitric oxide is what we know as a free radical. It's the gene expression of every major disease known to man. Not just cancer, where we hear it the most, but diabetes, heart disease, gangrene, wounds, inflammation. It is inflammation itself. So what does light do? Very simply, you shine light in. It disassociates those two particles. Oxygen is here, the nitric oxide, the free radical particle, is disassociated and absorbed in the blood vessel walls. And now the oxygen is free to go back into the mitochondria. So what have you done? You have eliminated the free radicals in the cell, which means you've kicked oxidative stress and inflammation out of the cell. And then you've allowed oxygen to flow back in, ATP production to be boosted and cell activity to either speed back up or restart. In some cases where it's totally stagnant. What does that do to the body? The body heals faster, right? So if chiropractic is setting the human body up in the central nervous system, where messages can flow freely and the body can heal itself, light is the chemical version of that. Right. So we are, we are working at the solution from two different sides and one is good by itself, but together, you see, really magic.

I love this lesson you just took us through. I think everybody went back to their first year of chiropractic college, maybe their undergraduate, just with that. So that was, that was solid. That was like part one. Boards right now recap. So that was a bit of a refresher for everybody. Great, great. So. So let me ask this then. How are chiropractors, you said you work with hundreds of chiropractors. How are you give me some examples of how it's integrating into these practices. Like who are the patients they're serving? What kind of things are we seeing happen? What kind of results are we getting? I know, I'm just going right after it, but like talk us through. Okay. That's amazing. Sounds like 100% aligned with what we teach philosophically, practically. What does this look like?

Yeah, we've got two sides of the same coin. Aspen laser is our Class 4 medical device. Medical laser Thorolite is our whole body device. Same technology, two different devices. We tend to see anybody on the laser side that walks in the office that has pain, acute subacute chronic inflammation, limited range of motion. It is a. I need it now. Fix me now. I hurt now. I can't move my shoulder now. I can't turn my head. Right. We can immediately solve that problem or at least get them a major result within 10 minutes of the first session. Now people that are going to be hearing this are going to say, well, I have a laser that doesn't do that. That one, we're gonna, we can talk about dose dependent medicine and our uniqueness in that, but a quality device, if you're delivering the right dose, should get 85, 90% of your patients down to that 0 to 1 on a 0 to 10 scale, 10 being high pain, 0 being none, 0 to 1 scale within 10 minutes of the first visit, and mobility as well. That should have an immediate impact. If you're not, it's the wrong dose, I can just tell you it might not be the wrong laser, but you're giving the wrong dose. And we teach how to do that, but that's the primary function we see. So we can even treat those people with chronic issues. Because what we see with light therapy, other than immediate pain relief, immediate increase in Mobility is. We see a long term effect of collagen production, cartilage production, we see stem cell production and increase. So we see all these long term effects as well. With the bed, we tend to look at patients in that transition. For a practitioner from acute and subacute care, can you build a multi million dollar practice fixing hurt people? Absolutely. But what's easier to. Once you fix enough hurt people to transition those patients into lifetime wellness? Because we know that patients flux in between acute, subacute, chronic and lifetime wellness back and forth. But it's those losing them in the gaps where they come in hurt, you make them feel better and they go away until they hurt themselves again. And now maybe they go to a different chiropractor because they, they forget how far they came with you and then they get hurt six months later and they go, oh well this time I'll try something else because I'm hurt again. Well, yeah, it's a different injury. Right. You hurt your other knee playing pickleball. Right. Pickleball is the new CrossFit. CrossFit was the new running. Running put chiropractors through, through their paces in the 70s and 80s. Then it was CrossFit and now it's pickleball. So that's the one side of it. The bed transitions those same patients once you get them out of peril, out of. I can't move, I can't breathe, I can't walk to. I need lifetime wellness. I want to transition to something where I may not need everything every day, but I can come in a couple times a week and do things that not just impact one area of my body, but what we call in theralite is a cascade of healing, a cascade of wellness. They start doing the light bed for one thing, and they see in the first two or three weeks seven other things taking place in their body. And they'll come to you and they'll tug on your shirt and say doc, can I get a minute to. Sure. And they pull you aside because. And they talk real quiet because they're like, you know, I came in for skin or my back pain or whatever. That's definitely better. But I can tell you I was struggling with some pretty severe anxiety most of my life. And I've found that I've been able to decrease my medication even the first three weeks of using the therolide. Right. That's a systemic whole body condition. So we approach people from both sides and we use whatever device we need or both devices as they go. But, but the theralite is grind it out overall wellness a couple times a week for 15 minutes and you grab a patient for life. And then as they have certain areas of need with adjustments or laser or other stem, you know, shockwave, other things you do in the office, they're always there. But we find that therolite creates that sticky environment that regardless of how patients feel today, I feel pretty good. I don't think I'll go to my adjustment or I don't think I need an adjustment this week. They don't skip the therolyte sessions. They're doing that two to three times a week, two minimum. And some people do it every day. It creates this interaction every day with your staff. But it doesn't take really your staff's time because they walk in, go in the room, do it themselves, 15 minutes, they try and walk out. So you've got this sticky environment where patients are there all the time and you've created this long term lifetime goal, lifetime wellness platform that exists in your own clinic.

Man, I love that you're, you're speaking our language there. You talk about the different phases of care, you talk about their goals. You know, we recommend, our recommendation is always based on two things. Your, your health goals and life goals and our clinical findings and that you can connect lifetime family wellness care.

Right.

The idea of that people can graduate into a wellness and. Or a maintenance membership that they can also do the same thing with this, which is huge. So it aligns perfectly with the, the, with the model that we're teaching as well. Which is why I knew right out of the gates this was going to be an awesome, awesome fit. So talk a little bit about roi. You know, we talk about the investments that people are making to grow their business. You know, we're always looking for a multiple in, in in return. Right. Whatever we're doing, whether you're hiring a coach or you're bringing on another doctor or you're bringing on some sort of a device. Right. So talk to me a little bit about what are we, what are we seeing and looking at right now in terms of what you guys are doing in the market marketplace?

Yeah, so. So some of your listeners are going to be pretty well versed in light therapy. And some of them have done it, some of them have done it and failed. Like I tried a laser, didn't work. You know, don't get some results, don't get some. Some of them have no idea. So as we transition to roi, there's a caveat there that you're using dose I go Back to dose dependent medicine. So let me kind of precursor before we go to the RI what that means. Those of you practitioners are listening. I've been down the light therapy road. It didn't work. ROI was terrible. If you don't get 90, 85, 90% of your patients pain free in the first 10 minutes of the first visit, then you've given the wrong dose and that's why your ROI sucked. I mean, I'm just, you know, right. If you adjust the wrong thing and they don't get better and well, of course they're not going to come back. So what, what happened in the light industry 40 years ago was light is physics, it's photophysics and it's math and it's, it's not easy. So every practitioner in the world was doing their own physics and they screwed it up. So you had inconsistent results in laser therapy or light therapy because you had millions of different doses being applied all over the world. So what the laser companies did is they took the low end of a condition and the high end of a condition and they stuck it in the middle and they said, now this is a preset protocol. Practitioner. Don't think, just press. Knee osteoarthritis, it's got a prescribed setting, prescribed time. Everybody gets the same treatment. Problem is, we go up into that 65 pound person, 110 pound person, 250 pound person, the depth of tissue is different. So if you do the, the, the middle of the road, it's going to work great for the segment of people who are in the middle of the road. But people who are less than that, you, you're going to do damage because it's an overdose. People who are bigger than that, you're not going to do anything because it's an underdose. So when we talk about how we get results that may be different from your listeners ROI that they've experienced in the past. So on our laser we call a course of care. Six sessions over 14 days. Six sessions in the first 14 days. If a patient came to me and said, well, I can only come in once a week for the next six weeks, I'd say don't waste your time. Wait till you have a time, a block of time where we can hit you with six sessions in the first 14 days. What does that RI look like? Most of my practitioners drive in anywhere from 15,000 to $30,000 a month with a single laser. And the doc isn't the one applying the laser. It's a delegated duty, which means anyone on his staff that he or she delegate that duty to can perform the laser. So I've got a low dollar value employee compared to the chiropractor in another room producing as much revenue every 15 minutes as that doc can produce with his or her own hands. That's an attractive roi. But you have to be applying dose dependent medicine to get the result immediately and really to get a result every single time you try. It doesn't mean we get resolution with one session, but we will get resolution if there's resolution to be had. Yes, some people are going to be on chronic care just like anything else. But that ROI is there. On the therolite bed, the ROI is even higher because a couple things happen on Therilite. Number one, it's self serve. It needs no practitioner to apply. The patient goes in their room by themselves, gets undressed, gets in it, it runs for 15 minutes, it turns off, they get dressed and they walk out. Five minutes later the next patient comes in and goes and in fact I've got clinics that are now running Fairlights 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, after hours and in evenings and all through the night and on weekends with no staff, no payroll, literally making money while they sleep. But the ROA is even higher because that, that really falls into a membership model, right? It could be 199, 250, 300, whatever you want for different iterations. Eight sessions a month, 12 sessions unlimited. But those are generating where from 20,000 to $60,000 per unit, depending on how many hours you're offering that service to the public. So that 60,000 end is up people that are doing it 24 hours a day, like whether we're here or not, you have a key fob. You can come in after hours and do your theralite session. So that revenue people, docs always ask me which one should I buy first? Well a salesman would say buy the Therolite first because it's more expensive. I told you before, I'm not a salesman. I always say start with, with a laser because a laser is the entree. It's a stepping stone to the Therlite bed. It's an easy. I hate the word sell. But if I get somebody that walked in here with frozen shoulder and it took them a month to go from here to here and in 10 minutes I get him to here. I don't have to sell them a thing. They beg me can I do this again tomorrow? And my first response is no. But I will see in 48 hours because it's a process, not an event. And we let the medicine dose take its time with the bed. There's a little bit of a give me 30 days, we'll show you how to change your life. But the funny thing is, once you apply a laser like that for somebody's shoulder, they go, oh, I wish you had an hour. My neck, my low back, my left knee, my right ankle, my tendonitis. Like, what are they asking for? Can you treat my whole body? Yeah, if I had three hours, I could treat your whole body. But at that point, I would always take that patient into the other room, and I just turn on the Therlite bed, and the whole room lights up in red, and they're like, is that for the whole body? And I'm like, absolutely. And they're like, I want it. I haven't even told you how much it costs yet. I don't care. I want it. So those are your two sides of the iri roi, but they both go together. Doesn't mean we haven't had practitioners start with a fairlight. I usually advocate start with a laser. You'll grow into it. That laser will produce enough money for you to pay that staff person or staff people that are doing it to pay for itself to generate, and it will provide revenue for you to go get a fairlight bed without you ever having to come out of your pocket for it.

How do I learn more if I'm listening to this? Because it's like, all right, you said there's a few people in the audience. You've got people that have these right now. You have people that have done in the past and would say it didn't work. And you got people that, this is totally new to them. But I think everybody should at least know more and, you know, have the opportunity to get it. Take a closer look at what this would look like. So whether someone currently is using a laser, let's say, in their. In their clinic or not, whether they have experience or not, I personally think everybody should know more about this and actually be aware of what's out there and what the next step should be. For anybody who's listening to this, if they want to learn more, what would that look like then? To connect with you?

Yeah, so a couple reasons. The first thing I do is I say, look, I'll make this super easy on any practitioner. You name the time, the place, and I'll come to your office for free. I won't charge you a dime. You don't have to put down a deposit. You don't have to promise to buy anything. Let me come treat your patients is what I do for fun, is I get to treat your patients. But I want you to do, I want you to pick the 10 to 15 absolute worst patients. Worst cases you have, I mean, bone on bone, knee, bone on bone, hip, multiple levels of herniation, frozen shoulder, can't turn their neck for the last 20 years. Traumatic brain injury. Yes, we treat that. So all pick, pick the worst cases. You got the patients that when they walk through the door, your staff, your staff, their heart just drops because you're doing everything you can and that person's not getting better. And you, you're looking for a way, let me, let me treat all those people. I come in, I treat them all day. I don't sell you anything. I just listen to people hug and cry and smile and then I walk away. And then your, your patience will bother you more than I will. Right, because they're going to beg you to get that. So that's the easiest way. If you reach out to me, we're going to post a couple QR codes that you can do for Aspen Laser or Therolyte. You scan those, fill out that form that comes directly to me. But I always give people my personal cell phone and email. My email is Mark Murdoch. M A R K M U R D O C K at Aspen lasers plural dot com. And then my cell phone is 214-641-1827. That's not AI Mark. That's me Mark. And everybody's doing AI voice generated sales assistants.

Now.

That's not.

That's me. You can reach out to me. I'll tell you about both devices. Again with the laser. I just come out to your office and make it super easy on you. At the end of the day, you'll know there won't be any questions.

Mark, I'm really grateful for you. Thank you for the awesome work you're doing. I know you're committed to serving practitioners and you've been serving our chiropractic profession so well. And I'm thrilled that you're a partner with us and the ways that you're going to be serving the doctors that.

We get to connect with and serve.

Whether they're a listener to this podcast or they're a clinic that's working with us directly in coaching. We're really, you know, we are honored to partner with you. So thanks for taking the time to meet with me here today and share some of your wisdom. Guys, please take advantage of connecting with Mark and, and consider what the next step could be. He's made an offer that would be really hard for anybody to refuse. So I, I hope you have a some openings in your schedule moving forward here after this podcast here, Mark. So, yeah, no problem.

I love traveling. I love doing it. And we'll make it work. We'll. We'll get somebody there. Me or one of the other staff members.

For sure.

We'll get somebody in front of you.

Awesome. All right, guys. So, you know, you're listening to this is the Remarkable Practice podcast. And we're honored to continue to serve you and serve chiropractic, because what we know is that what the world needs now is chiropractic, and what chiropractic needs now is more successful chiropractors. Mark Murdoch is here because we believe that he can help you as a chiropractor become more successful and helping more people. Mark, thanks for your time today and for everybody else. Look forward to being with you again next week on our next podcast. Until then, God bless. Take care.

Thanks for listening to this episode of Build you'd Remarkable Practice podcast. Remember, what the world needs now is chiropractic, and what chiropractic needs needs now is more successful chiropractors. If you like the podcast, please subscribe, share with your friends, and leave us a review. And if you'd like to connect with us personally, please click the links in the show notes to schedule a call.