359 - What Alex Hormozi Taught Me About Selling Chiropractic Care

Your offer is not your service. Your offer is the transformation that you provide packaged in a way that it makes it easy to say yes. So just think about that, guys. And how often have you heard us say, stop selling features. People don't buy features. They're not buying your process, your program, your services. They're buying the outcome. Hello and welcome to the Remarkable CEO Podcast. Podcast, a show dedicated to chiropractors who want to transform their job into a business so that they can have a remarkable practice as part of a remarkable life, not instead of one. With your hosts, Dr. Pete Camiolo and Dr. Stephen Franson.

Welcome to another episode of the Remarkable CEO Podcast, chiropractic's number one Business Podcast. I'm Dr. Pete Camiolo.

And I'm Dr. Stephen Franson.

And you are joining us in the midst of a series. And today, if your constraint is conversion in your business, you're in the right place. We're gonna have a sales conversation today. And by the way, if you're a remarkable CEO, you know how this works. The question isn't if you have a constraint in your conversion, it's where is the constraint in your conversion process right now. So we're gonna spend some time breaking it down. And you know what, Dr. Stephen, we're gonna go west cuz you went west and we're gonna spend a little bit of time today with Dr. Stephen and Alex Hormozi. This is gonna be a good episode, Dr. Stephen. You and I, you had some chance to connect beforehand and I'm sure you're gonna, we're gonna have some stories to tell, but we're gonna, we're gonna dig in today. I'm actually super jazzed. For the framework we're gonna create today. And I know that by the time we wrap this episode, okay, first of all, you're gonna wanna write a bunch of things down. So make sure you have pen and paper ready, or you're just jamming on notes on your phone. But make sure that you write down, uh, where it is that you're gonna focus. 'Cause we're gonna be covering what we have identified as 4 key areas that if you don't get these right, uh, these are gonna be issues with your offering and really where your conversions are slowing down or stopping. So, If it's not optimized, it's— there's a constraint. We're going to identify that. Is Dr. Steven looking forward to digging in with you today?

Yeah, buddy. Always a pleasure, man. Excited for today's conversation because so many of you guys, a lot of people saw that I was spending time with Hormozy and, you know, I hired him to coach us. I always have coaches, as you guys know. I'm just like, I love the expression success leaves clues, right? Tony Robbins taught me that. Speaking of great coaches, like, I always have multiple coaches in my life, so I like to say that for every category of your life, you should have a proven program that you're following and a coach that you're paying to hold you accountable to following it. Right. So I learned that from one of my coaches, Dr. John Demartino. Right. So when I look at the marketing and sales place, man, there's a lot of brilliant coaches in my life right now. I have 5 coaches in this area because I'm always investing in coaching. At the end of the day, it's like what a cheat code that is for success. It's like completely compressing time. It's like you can hire some expert that's going to take years of their success and their experience and all the trials and tribulations, everything they've learned, compress it for you. Sign me up, right? So I spent some time here recently with Hormozy. I had a, like, a very expensive meeting with him, right? So it was a $135,000 day. But you know what? It was worth it. We've already just monetized that 10x. No question about it, right? So, um, that's the idea, guys. It's like you're your coaching process compresses time and pulls success forward for you. That's how you have to think about it, right? So I treat, you know, each one of these podcast episodes, this is like a coaching session. We don't gatekeep for you guys. It's like, I hope you feel like this is a $25,000 hour. No question about it, right? So if you're listening and you are implementing, it's a $25,000 hour today. It'll be a $250,000 hour. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to share with you just some of my notes that I took away from my time with Hormozy out in Vegas, and we were talking about so many things. But one of the things that, you know, we were talking about was the offer, right? So, and that is the irresistible offer, as he puts it, you know, creating this framework of the irresistible offer for the chiropractor speaking to a potential new patient. Right. So it's like this is the B2C framework of an irresistible offer. And so, Dr. Pete, we're going to take this through because we're having a conversion conversation, right? So this is a sales conversation. And if your conversion process is your primary constraint right now, this is a great framework. This is a great lens to look at and be able to say, where in our conversion process is this breaking down? Right? So you're going to hear the Remarkable Practice process, the TRP system, all through this conversation. Right? So truthfully, the TRP process predates this by about 20 years. So it's just awesome to know that the DNA of our process is true. To this irresistible offer framework. So Dr. Pete, I think first a great place to start is just the idea of like, what is an offer?

Right?

So, because chiropractors, this is you, sometimes we talk about fumbling at the first yard line, right? So it's like taking it all the way down the field, but not closing the deal. And you're fumbling at the first line. That we've all done that, all been there, right? That's not this. This is taking the kickoff and letting it go thread right through your hands and bouncing behind you and somebody else picking it up behind you. It's like, this is just like dropping the ball right from the get-go, right? So this is out of the gates getting your offer wrong. So, so many of you struggle with conversion process and sales because you just don't have a compelling offer, right? You don't have the irresistible offer. So I love the way Hormozy frames this, and this is simplified, but in essence, it's just your offer is not your service. Your offer is the transformation that you provide packaged in a way that it makes it easy to say yes. So just think about that, guys. And how often have you heard us say, stop selling features? People don't buy features. They're not buying your process, your program, your services. They're buying the outcome. Right? So I'll say that again, Dr. Pete, your offer is not your service. Your offer is the transformation that you provide through your services.

I love this. The whole coaching concept that you talked about is is critical because, you know, as you're listening to, to Dr. Steven, as you're listening to our podcast, as hopefully you've been tuning in regularly, you're, you're finding there is massive value from this and there's no gatekeeping going on. But the offer, I think about this because when I opened my practice, Dr. Steven, I actually associated before I opened. I paid a lot of money and invested in coaching.

You can say it. Would you, what did you pay? That number's staggering.

Yeah, I invested over $300,000 into coaching before I opened my office. I made that kind of an investment, $330,000 actually. So, but the reality is, and this was before I opened my office, this was to make sure that when I opened, I was going to be successful. And I had, you know, there was a lot of people that would say, oh, why would you make that kind of an investment? Well, now when I look back decades later, I'm like, I know exactly why. I wished I could have said I was smart enough then, but I was just a risk taker and not afraid to, bet on myself and whatever. But man, I'll tell you the one thing to your point was I pulled into myself was getting really clear on what I was gonna offer. And it enabled us, Dr. Stephen, out of the gates to attract and convert quickly, readily, and to grow quickly because I had a really clear package. I had a really clear offering. I knew I knew what I was selling and I'm not saying it was refined a lot over the years and it's still being refined. It always is. But man, it was huge. And so Dr. Steven, to your point, what we're going to be doing, this is like the kickoff comes to your point and the ball, you dropped the ball. Like you didn't get this part right. It's, it's trouble from here on out. And unfortunately I have chiropractors that I get to meet with now who maybe are years down the road. And still struggling with this because they never really landed on it. So, and it's not saying like once you arrive, you're good to go. You constantly need to be putting your, your offer through this framework that we're about to go through. You should evaluate and put your offer through and make sure, does it check the boxes right now in 2026, which is when we're recording this episode. And if you didn't listen to our previous episode, make sure you do that because in that episode we went through identifying in your attraction, make sure you're marketing to the right people. Because if you don't do that part right, when you get to this step in the journey— so you have a patient showing up for a day one, a new patient who you didn't market to right, so they, they— if you're getting what we call product confusion, you, you create this misalignment in what it is that we actually do with who we brought to the table. That's its own thing. So go back and listen to the previous episode because that pre-framed and set us up for the next step in the patient journey, which is the conversion process. But Dr. Steven, I can't emphasize enough how important it is to invest in the expertise of coaching people that can guide you on the tour of where you want to go. It's why we do it as an organization. It's why many of you who are listening, who work with TRP, are doing it because you recognize the value that you get. It's 10x what you're going to invest any given year. And yeah, this is going to be a great conversation today. So let's start at the top.

Yeah, 100%, Pete. So the transformation is the word I want people to hold on to. It's like, yeah, don't sell the process, sell the outcomes, right? Sell the transformation that the process is providing, right? So Sunday, this weekend, I'm going to take off. I'm going to go to go catch some waves in Puerto Rico next week, right? So I'm taking a vacation next week, which I'm so psyched, so psyched for, right? So I am ready for some time in the ocean. I'm gonna go hook up with Coach Sebastian. We're gonna spend the week getting some waves, having some fun. And then we go into the Ultimate Achievers Club meetup at the end of the week and the week next weekend. Right. So when I'm thinking about that trip, that's what makes the, you know, the workouts that I do worth it. Right. Because I know that I'm in a, at a level of fitness and strength where I'm going to be able to surf the way I want to be able to surf in Puerto Rico next week. And I know that it makes the adjustment protocols that I follow to make sure that my neck and my upper thoracic spine, my low back are healthy, my spine is healthy, my nervous system firing so that I can do those workouts, right? So it makes the spinal care that I get, the tractioning that I do, the, the exercises that I do, right? The three-legged stool that I've done with Breaking My Bad Habits, like all of that process and procedure of my personal life. It's not that I love doing all that stuff, but my goodness, do I love getting in the ocean and being able to spend 2, 3, 4 days in a row. I'm going to be 57 years old this year. And I mean, I'm— I know I look at my peer group and some of my friends around me and they, they just can't do that anymore. And, you know, when they're like, oh yeah, it must be nice to be able to do that, you know, oh, you're so lucky. I'm like, I don't know, am I lucky? You know, is it, is it luck that's allowing me to do that or is it the process that I'm following? Now, I don't want to focus on the process that it took or that took me to a place where I'm able to do that. I want to focus on the fact that I'm going to be able to be in the water surfing. And that's what I want is the outcomes associated with that. Right. So I love how Hormozy says, don't sell people the tickets on the airplane to fly to Puerto Rico to go surfing. Sell people on the surfing. Right. So it's like they don't want to talk about buying the tickets and how many hours you have to fly and checking your luggage and, you know, the Uber rides to and fro and how are you going to get to the hotel? It's like, that's not— that's all the process. Just talk to people about the surfing, right? Getting in the water. Talk about the transformation. So, you know, this framework is great because all of us need it, because as chiropractors we have this curse of knowledge, right? So we love to talk about chiropractic, we love to talk about our process, we love to talk about all the, you know, the great care that they're going to get, the adjustments that we deliver, that we have the best upper cervical care in the world, or the best full spine, or the best CBP care. We want to talk about their progress exams and re-exams and re-X-rays and all the exercises that they're going to get to do, and all the bad habits that they're going to break and like all the workshops they can attend and all the consultations you can eat, like all of that process. We love talking about it because we're so passionate about the outcomes that people are going to get from it. That's why we fall down about this, right? So I'm, I'm staying here for a second because I want to, I want to hit you between the eyes. Stop talking about your process and start talking about the transformation that people are going to experience because of your process. Because frankly, nobody cares about your process until they care about your process. They need to know you're gonna help them get what they want. And once they understand that your process is gonna help them get what they want, now they wanna know about your process, right? So, all right, I've beaten that horse enough. Let's, I'm gonna go back to my notes from Hormozy. So let's talk about the value equation, right? So the value equation is, and you're gonna wanna write this down, value equals the dream outcome times perceived likelihood of achievement divided by the time delay times the effort and sacrifice. I'll say that again. This is an equation, guys. Picture this. Write it down. So the numerator at the top, the dream outcome multiplied by the perceived likelihood of achievement divided by the time delay times how much effort and sacrifice I'm going to have to make. Dr. Pete, this is critical that we think this way, right? Because these are all of the psychological factors factors that are coming into play when a person's deciding whether they're going to engage, whether they're going to step forward, whether they're going to commit, whether they're going to buy.

So before we go into this and break this down, first of all, there's a lot there. And I'm so excited you're getting to Puerto Rico and going to do surfing, and you're in good shape to be able to do it even at your age.

Easy, buddy.

Just messing with you. But here's the thing, I would love for an exercise coming out of this, Dr. Eric Janowitz, because we did this before, and then I was thinking about what we teach and I was like, man, we've been teaching this stuff forever, you know? So it was so good to be aligned. We're like, wow, This is exactly what we teach. It's a new framing of it. So here's what I would love for this group to do. Everybody's listening is to actually write this down, like write down your, and the equation, like Dr. Steven just said, but actually write down the answer. So take, give this to your team. This would be a great exercise. You could even do this in a quarterly board meeting or you just do it at a team meeting. It'd be, it'd be hard to, there's a lot here. So you need some time, but what are the dream outcomes? Like what are the outcomes that you've heard from patients over the last 4, 10, 5, whatever years, 1 year you've been in practice? Number 1. Number 2, what is the perceived likelihood of achievement? In other words, we're going to go through this, but like do this exercise that we're about to do. Write down what is that perception? Like what impacts that? And we'll go through what it looks like here tactically. What is the time delay? What does that actually mean in your practice? And then the effort and sacrifice that's required. So do some of this work. The dream outcome is the big one, but do them and write this stuff down so that you have the answers for yourselves so that when you're engaging in building out your offering, when you're engaging with people going through your day 0 to day 1, day 1 to day 2, day 2 to day 3 process, day 3 to day 4 even, that you're speaking directly into this when you're doing it. So that I just wanted to emphasize that this is an action step to take with your team, not just you, but with your team. Get their input. Into this, to this equation so that when you build it out and you refine it over these next weeks, it gets better and the whole team is bought in. They contributed to that chime in and buy in, and that's how you're going to drive the best outcome. So think like a CEO, pull the success forward, invite your team into this process with you.

Hey, Doc, Stephen Franson here. If you're like me, you know that we're in the business of saving lives, and when business is good, everybody wins. That's the good news, but here's the bad news. Most chiropractors don't own a business at all. They own a job. It's a job they love, but it's a job. And far too often, it feels like that job owns them. Is this true for you? Do you own a business or a job? Have you built and do you run your practice on brute force? Does it rely fully on your time, your effort, a pound of your flesh. Are you responsible for all growth, for all new patient generation? How about new patient conversions? Is it all up to you? How about patient care and delivery? Are you a sole practitioner, an owner-operator who owns the practice but is also the only one that is head down and bum up taking care of all the patients? Is revenue generation or collections all up to you? Let me ask you the most telling question. Doc, what would happen if you took 90 days off? What breaks? In my experience, most on-purpose chiropractors do not lay awake at night worrying about their practice. They worry about their business. Let's slay that dragon. The Remarkable CEO program has helped hundreds of chiropractors just like you turn the job that they love into the business that they've always wanted. Are you ready to run and build your practice on leverage instead of brute force? Do you want to create the scalability and durability that will allow you to make a bigger impact and a bigger income? What would it mean to grow your practice, increase your productivity and your profitability? Do you want to get your time freedom back? Are you ready to turn your pirate ship into a battleship? If this sounds like you, then the Remarkable CEO Program is for you. Just last year, 53 of our Remarkable clients received the 7-figure club award, meaning they hit the million-dollar mark for the first time or their next million-dollar level, be it $2 million, $3 million, $10 million, up to $36 million and growing. Now, Doc, is it crazy to imagine that your practice could be next? Click the link below and learn how to apply for the next cohort of the Remarkable CEO Program. We look forward to working closely with you in creating the business that supports Your Remarkable Life, not competes with it.

So, Dr., let's start with the first one, the dream outcome.

So one of the things that I love about the way Hormozy coaches is everything comes down to a skill, right? Which is encouraging because it— you can learn a skill, right? So, you know, how many of us have been in a situation where like, I can't believe that person didn't convert? Like, why didn't they start? Why didn't they say yes? It's so frustrating, right? It's like, I did a good job. Like, they're day 1, day 2. I really cared. They really need it. All those are the things we say to ourselves. What we need to say is, did I follow my process? There's 4 things here. It's a checklist. Did I talk about their dream outcome? Did I address their perceived likelihood of achieving it? Number 3, did I address the time delay and how fast will I give results? And did I address number 4, the effort and science? How hard is this process? Check, check, check. Like, in your mind, guys, this framework helps you so you don't get lost in the process. Remember, we're gonna train like lives depend on it, act like it. That's what an on-purpose person sounds like. It's like, okay, there's 4 things that need to happen here on this day 1, day 2 conversion process.

Yep.

That's how I want you guys to think about this. It's a skill, right? So number 1, dream outcome. Remember we talked about sell the transformation, not your process, not your system, right? So The dream outcome. Answer the question, what do they really want? Like, why is this person sitting here? Like, they've walked into a chiropractic office. It's a strange place full of strange people doing strange things. That's really scary. Why did they do that? They overcame the inertia of inaction. They said, I'm going to raise my hand and say I need help. Why? You need to think about that and you need to be intentional about it. Listen to me. Ready, docs? Ready? Not why are you there? We know why you're there, right? So you're, you're an on-purpose chiropractor. You know the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. You understand the above, down, inside out truth of chiropractic. That's why you're there. Okay. Why are they there? Like, you have to consider them, right? So what's their dream outcome? Why are they really there? What do they really want? This is the end result that the customer desires the most, right? So this has got to be specific. It's got to be emotional, Dr. Pete. Remember, conversion's emotional. And it's got to be compelling. You've got to overcome their fear of loss, the risk associated with starting something weird and new and strange, right? And you got to focus on the transformation, not the service, the outcome. Sell the outcome. People want to get healthier. They want to get stronger. They want to get better, right? So that they can do the things that they have to do and they can do the things that they want to do, right? So they want to feel good again. They want to look good, right? And they want to function better. It's better, stronger, healthier, Dr. P. Their dream outcome. And you got to make it specific. Listen, be specific to them, what they want to do, who they want to be. You've got to make it emotional, who they want to be, and compelling. You've got to make sure that there's a carrot and stick there. If you take action, this is the outcome for you. If you don't take action, it's more of this outcome that brought you here.

So good. So a couple of things on this, and then we're going to go through the others as well. Is when you go through your Day 1, Day 2 process, you study the TRP system. One of the things that we emphasize is the importance of goal getting on Day 1. We emphasize the importance of life effect on Day 1. We talk about Day 1 is about connection and discovery. Day 2 is about ownership, ownership and direction. But if you don't do the connection discovery day, it's really the Day 2, it doesn't work. So to this point, specific, emotional, compelling, life effect, goals, guys, that's where it's at. If you want me to circle it like that's what we need to do a better job of that we can improve. On that. Help the patient with that. Like, don't— if they're not good at getting— giving you their goals, help them with it. Unearth that. Pull that for— out for them. Help them do that. Like, that's the job of the new patient concierge, to help you with this. The doctors, you probably don't have the time to do that. If you are the doctor doing this, like, you're gonna have to have a, a fast forward button. So make sure your paperwork is supporting you at this process, right? Like, this is a really important one. If we don't get that, Dr. Steven then, you know, that's not going to be, uh, you're not, you're going to struggle with your conversion because we haven't done a good enough job. So that's number 1. Number 2 is perceived likelihood of achievement. The question you're answering is, will this work for me? So if you think about this, think about patients that you've sat in front of for all the years that you've been in practice. You know that there's only a few things that they're thinking about. It's time and money. But then the other one would be, is this really gonna work for me? Like, even if the time and the money, check, check, there's still one more. It's like, you sure this is gonna work for me though? Like, that's the one that you have to land on. It has to be, that's personal, personalized, specifically me and my issue. So we talk about Dr. Steven, attraction's a reflection of your certainty and conversion, a reflection of your conviction. This is where certainty and conviction marry together. It's not certainty attracted them and then I don't need my certainty anymore. Now I'm just gonna use my conviction. No, it's your certainty and your conviction that come together in this moment that give the person the confidence. See, this is the confidence to say, I believe you that this'll work for me. That belief, I borrow your belief. I have confidence that what you're telling me will help me do that. So there's a few things that help with this process. Number one is giving them proof. Okay. You guys know if you've been around me how much I love testimonials. I did an entire breakout, a main stage session at our Phoenix Immersion and the Attraction Immersion on testimonials. You know how important it is. I said in 2025, in 2030, in 2035, 2040, 2045, 2050, no matter what happens, the one thing that's gonna still win when it comes to you attracting and converting and retaining, it's testimonial. The power of testimony, case studies. And connecting specific studies to them. People just like me. I've helped people just like you. And by the way, here's a story. Here's another one. Here are 3 others. I'm gonna send you some home with you, just driving home that proof. So it's not take my word for it, take their word for it. See these people just like you. That's number 1. Number 2, Dr. Stephen, was clear process and framework. This is why we organize their care into 3 stages of time. Initial intentives: slow down, stop the damage, start the healing, begin feeling and functioning better. That's clearly defined. Second stage, the corrective stage. It's about stabilization and strengthening, getting back to doing the things that you know you need to do, you want to do, without the fear of relapsing and end up right back where you are right now in this crisis. And then we're going to graduate you into a corrective and wellness, a protective stage of your health. To protect the new level of health and help you achieve those. Clear process, clear framework, structure to the plan. You are giving me direction. That gives me comfort. I'm— I feel like you're holding my hand.

You're going to—

you have a plan for me. Wow. It looks like it's organized and clear. Guys, don't be cute. Don't be clever. Be clear. And you got to be clear when it comes to your framework and how you organize your plan, your treatment plan, and your financial plan. And then the authority and expertise. I'm not going to say this is in— this is just guarantee, or this is, um, how should I say, implied. You have to show up and be the doctor.

That's right.

You got to be the doc. Don't be like, is that going to work for you? You think that'll be— you got to tell them and say, this is how we're going to do it. My recommendation is based on two things, Dr. Steven: your goals and my clinical findings. Your goals are ABC, our findings are XYZ. These two things came together, and that's how I form my rest recommendations. There's going to be a time commitment, an energy commitment, and a financial commitment. And I'm going to be clear, I'm going to be an expert, and we can help you. Don't play games here, guys. Be a leader and walk in the authority that you've been given. Walk in the confidence that you've trained for this. You've worked for this. You're a doctor and this is what you went to school for. This is why you trained. This is why we're here. Dr. Steven, I think when you build that together, the likelihood of—

Huge.

Will this work for me, man? The increase goes up big time.

Huge.

Huge. All right, Dr. Pete, that's 2 out of the 4, right? So we've got 4. When we're talking about building that irresistible framework— Hormozy calls it the irresistible framework— which basically their goal is at the end of this thing, it's shut up and take my money. That's literally what we're looking for, right? So it's like, okay, we talked about the dream, we focused on their dream outcome, what they really want. Number 2 is what is their perceived likelihood of will this work for me? Because if they don't move forward, it means Either they don't believe in the system or they don't believe that you can deliver the system or they don't believe that you'll follow the system, right? That, that's like, will this work for me? Right? So, and you've got to slay that dragon. You gotta know exactly where they're coming from and where their hesitation is. Number 3 is time delay, right? So they want to know, it's like, how fast will I see results? Right? So how long is this going to take? So you have to be able to speak to the process and that it does require time, but by working with you, it's going to compress time. You're going to help them get what they want and you're going to help them get it faster. You're going to help them get better results faster. Sound familiar? Okay, so our Better Results Faster workshop is named that because of that is the objective. What do people want? They want to get the results they want faster. When anybody would ever push back and say, do I really have to go to the Better Results Faster workshop? I'd be like, why do you want worse results slower? And they would laugh and I'd be like, yes, you have to be there. So I want you working with me, not against me. If you're working against me, you're going to sabotage our work and slow down our results. You're going to get frustrated and we're going to get frustrated. Nobody's happy. So yes, this is how you get better results faster, guys. You got to frame everything into like, we're going to see you 3 times a week. Well, I only want to come twice a week, bro. You should be here 5 times a week. We'd get you better results faster. But 3 times a week is what your body can tolerate. We're going to make changes 3 times a week. I would see you twice a day, 7 days a week if that's what you needed. You need 3 times a week so we can get you better results faster. So everything is framed to the benefit of this is how you're going to get results faster. And we're going to, we're going to compress time. So Dr. Pete, reducing friction by a solid onboarding process, really efficient, really professional. Day 1, day 2, day 3. Right? So it's like your team is tight and they love it. They feel the professionalism of that. Right? So they know they're in good hands. Early wins with a clear roadmap. Man, you got to get goal getting, man. It's not goal setting. It's goal getting. You got to ask them what are their objectives? What are their goals? What are you trying to accomplish?

Right?

Everybody shows up with 3 types of goals, Dr. B. Immediate goals, short-term goals, and long-term goals. We want to make sure we're framing this journey. This process is all about them achieving their goals. So immediate goals are this, short-term goals are this, long-term goals are this, right? So at the end of the day, it's about compressing time and making a person see the process is going to be sped up. You're going to compress time, pull their success forward because they're working with you and your system.

So good, man. I love this stuff. All right, so, uh, the fourth one. So now they've gotten a clear roadmap, right? They can see how they're going to get the results. They understand the time. The fourth one is effort and sacrifice. And the question you're answering here is, how hard is this? And here's the truth, and this is what Hormozi said, it should feel— the easier it feels, the more attractive the offer. Here's the— what we have to embrace as chiropractors: chiropractic is not a done-for-you product, it's a done-with-you I wish it was done for you, right? We say, we're, you know, I'm a terrible magician, but I'm a good chiropractor. You know, it's like, I can't do it for you. It's not just going to happen overnight. You know, this idea that it's going to take time. Number one, you talked about that better results faster if you follow the roadmap, which is clearly laid out, which we're 100% committed to and they commit to as well. And then it's the sacrifice and the effort. And the reality is, is this is a done with you. And we have to be honest with our patients when they come in, recognizing that it's, it's done with you. However, what we need to encourage them with is that it's a simple process, that the steps are clear. And this is where I love the three-legged stool, Dr. Steven, because it's like there's a step-by-step process and we organize it really clearly for you in three simple things. Number one, let's keep your adjustments in rhythm. Number two, we're gonna help you identify what are the bad habits when you need a break. We'll break, start breaking those. We'll actually even teach you some good ones to build in replacement over time. And then the third is, We're going to give you supportive exercises that when you do these at home are going to help you hold your adjustments longer, that over time you're going to again get the results but hold the results, and you're going to— it'll be a lot less of an investment of the 4 limited resources that you have: time, energy, focus, and money, because of that. So those 3 things come together, drive your results. When you teach people, they're like, okay, got it, that's simple, I can follow that, anybody really can do it. Yeah, we meet people where they're at. Right? They don't need to be a superhuman. They could be a regular human and come in and get the help. We have a simple— and then the third piece was support and accountability, which is why you have a team. If you didn't, if you didn't need that, like we don't need any CAs, have people scan in and check in and just do everything on their own. No, but we have a team of CAs. We have a check-in to help you, greet you, make sure you know you're in the right place. We have your checkout who's going to make sure that all the details are on track and in place for your future care. We have, you know, tech people that are going to support you with pre and post testing. We're going to reevaluate you over time. You know, we've got amazing doctors are going to give you those adjustments. And every time you're in here, you can know exactly what you can expect. You like that support and the accountability. And then in addition, we're going to add in, you know, we're going to get you in our, in our Facebook group. We're going to be a part of our, our community of patient base, however we organize them. We have ongoing, you know, continuing education classes, advanced workshops, and we got other opportunities for you to plug into the community that we're building here. We're gonna be putting out newsletters and you get a drip every week in the email with health information to equip and guide you. You know, we're gonna be your library of resources and support that we offer you. It's like the support, the accountability, the community, your team, all of that that comes with your membership here. Part of you being a patient in this part of this office, all of that makes it less hard. Okay. Because I said at the beginning, Dr. Steven, it is hard, right? It's going to be hard, but choose your hard. Which is where, like, hard— is it hard to be subluxated and live with the consequences of that and take drugs and get surgeries and do that for the rest of your life? Or is it hard to invest in chiropractic care, put some time, energy, focus, and money into that, preventing yourself from taking drugs, prevent surgery, live independently, live your best life, do the things you love to do, achieve your goals? Pick your hard. And most people, when you start to frame it correctly and you meet with them where, where they are, right? People start with you to, to get rid of a problem. They stay with you to achieve the goal. When you identify, when they see you are at the center of them achieving their outcome, this is what I need to do to get what I want. And they realize you're at actually at the center of that with a simple process. It makes it easier for people to say yes and to say yes over and over and over again. Dr. Eric Janowitz, that is how we handle effort and sacrifice.

Advice.

Dr. Pete, something I know to be true is that when you're healthy, everything in life gets easier, and when you're sick, everything in life gets harder. Do you tell your patients that? Like, it doesn't get any simpler than that. So under this subtitle of making it, you know, how hard is this, it's like, listen, is what you're doing right now easy, right? So one thing I know to be true is when you are healthy, everything in life is easier. And when you're sick or hurting or injured or broken or degenerating or pounding pills, everything is harder. And everybody knows that, right? So guys, listen, we're not framing this in such a way that we make something that's hard easy, but what we're showing them is that with chiropractic care, you're taking something that is hard and we're making it easier, right? Chiropractic is a done-with-you program, not a done-for-you program, right? So it's done with you, which means that they have to participate. That's the truth of it. That's just having integrity to be able to say we have a program you can follow, and you're not going to do this alone. We're going to come alongside you, and we're going to hold you accountable to doing the things that you need to do to get the results that you want. It's going to be hugs, high fives, headlocks, whatever it takes, but we are going to come alongside you, right? So you're going to be so supported, cheering you on. You'll never find a group of people that are going to take better care of you and support you in this process. That's what they're buying. They're buying that, right? So just make sure that you're clear on it. It's like, that is what you are buying. That's what creates the irresistible offer, right? So when you look at this Hormozy framework, it's great, right? So value equals dream outcome times perceived likelihood of achievement divided by time delay and effort and sacrifice. That's a great concept. But what we're walking you through here is through the Remarkable System. This is the Remarkable Practice System through the lens of the irresistible offer, right? So that's a concept up there. This is how it's practical. This is how it hits the ground. So what you just heard us is, is take this concept and flesh it out with the process, the procedures, the scripting, the tools, the stepwise process that you can execute this. Right. So if you heard us say, you're like, man, love the framework, need help with the process and procedures, you'll find there's a link somewhere here for you guys to jump on a call with us. We'll— we'd be happy to help you learn this process and procedure and make this real. If this is your primary constraint, conversion, you know the truth on purpose, chiropractors. You can only help the people you convert. Amen. So this is— don't let that kickoff go sliding through your hands on the first yard line, right? On the— don't, don't drop the ball on the one, right? So before the game even starts, you've got to get your offer right. You've got to create that irresistible offer. You've got to follow this framework, this lens laid over the Remarkable Practice System. And you execute this well with the right intention and just stay present, all you're going to hear is shut up and take my money.

Please stick around for more business insights from this week's bonus interview with our Remarkable Success Partner dedicated to helping you more successfully help more people. Enjoy.

Hello, Remarkable CEOs. This is Dr. Coach Eric Janowitz. Here with Dr. Travis. He's one of our remarkable success partners with TRP, and we love our remarkable success partners because they help our clients help more people. And that's what we're here in the business to do. So welcome to the podcast, Dr. Travis. Great to have you here.

Thanks, Dr. Eric. I appreciate you having me.

Yeah. So Dr. Travis is a chiropractor and he's also the founder of Chiro Ads Academy. And so he's here to talk about how chiropractors running ads can drive more new patients into their business. So Dr. Travis, please tell our listeners a little about yourself. All right.

So I actually started my practice in Boulder, Colorado in 2020 during the middle of COVID And so because of that, we came up against a lot of challenges on driving new business through the door. There wasn't a lot of external marketing opportunities. One of the things that we knew we needed to get into was digital marketing. That's because we not only wanted to survive, but we wanted to thrive. We wanted to grow a healthy practice. And fortunately, we were able to get involved with an agency pretty quickly. And, uh, we saw some traction, uh, pretty quickly and we saw some new patients come through the door. And then that quickly declined after month 1 into month 2, month 3. And so we got in onto what we now refer to as the agency hamster wheel. So if we, we jump from one agency to the other and long story short, we ended up working with 4 different agencies. And 2 different consultants over the course of about, you know, a year to 18 months, something like that. And we saw a little bit of success with each of them, but it always quickly declined due to some unknown reason. And so we knew that it could work and we knew that there were a lot of practices out there that were leveraging it and making it work. And so what we finally did was took it upon ourselves to go outside the industry and learn from a bunch of prolific and iconic marketers, now in the entrepreneurial space, and we were able to create a really great in-house ad system. And fortunately, that in-house ad system pulled me out of a pretty deep hole in the practice because we weren't able to drive a lot of new business. And actually, you were in my corner during that time. You were my coach, so you know how much we were struggling. And fortunately, we were able to, like I said, turn on the new patient acquisition system, and we grew by $50,000 a month in as little as 6 months. And so this was something that allowed me to build a successful practice that I was hoping to build whenever I embarked on this journey. And I started talking about it a little bit on my podcast, which is essentially my digital diary, um, on how challenging it was starting an entrepreneurship, starting a, a, a practice in Boulder, Colorado during the middle of COVID And several people reached out and they wanted to know how we actually built this in-house ad system. And how we were able to control our new patient volume. And so we started a little beta test, which was we took on 5 practices, myself and my co-founder now, who was then my office manager, who's also the CTO of the program, really tech savvy. And we were able to implement this program in 5 different practices all across the United States, and they had better results in their markets than we actually were seeing here in Boulder. And so we knew we had something special and that was over 3 years ago almost by this point. And now we have, uh, officially coined it the Chiro Ads Academy and we have nearly 400 members as of yesterday. So yeah, the program has grown really quickly because I, I believe we found a void and filled it. And, you know, it was all based on the testing and the iterations and the challenges that we had inside of my practice. But also being able to identify specific problems with digital marketing and then create viable solutions to those problems. And so we were able to actually get better in our digital marketing over time, which was something that we had never seen happen before with the agencies. It had always started great and then gotten worse over time. So it was completely inverse. And that allowed me to first off grow my practice, but secondarily now have this other business, uh, that has really been able to serve the profession at a high level.

Great, man. I didn't know some of that backstory that, that's where that came from and it was from your podcast. Yeah. For those of you that don't know Dr. Travis, he also has his own podcast, which is awesome. I recommend you check it out. It's called Making Moves. Is that correct?

It was, it's now called The Arena.

Oh, okay. It's updated. Yeah. So The Arena.

I updated.

Yep. Is it on anywhere we can find podcasts?

Yeah, it's on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. It's The Arena with Dr. Travis. So you've actually been on that podcast. You've been featured. Maybe we'll leave that episode in the show notes.

Yeah, that, that's great. Yeah. So check it out, guys. It's great, great content, great high-level chiropractic talk. So that's awesome. And so it's great. You got 400 people now you're serving, which is amazing. And it's, it's, it's funny. I, I've, I've worked with a lot of docs that started right around COVID and it's like the same story as like, yeah, not the best time to start, right? Everything is shut down, especially in Colorado. I'm in Michigan. So we had the same kind of shutdown as you guys had to deal with. Everything was limited and it's like, okay, I got to start this new business. I need new patients and I literally can't go out in the community. I can't do talks, I can't do anything. But I think you'd probably agree now it might have been the best thing that ever happened, right? Because it, it, it made you get innovative and develop this new thing that has now become not just a great driver of new patients to your personal practice, but helping a lot of chiropractors as well.

Yeah, 100%. It was a pivotal moment in my life and at the time when I'm sweating through my bedsheets wondering how I'm gonna pay overhead and pay salaries and, um, you know, just make it. I got a, a, a new wife and we moved all the way across the country to start this practice. There's a lot of pressure. And, uh, with that pressure came a lot of responsibility. And, you know, fortunately we were able to get innovative and resourceful. And I think that was one of our greatest strengths was resourcefulness. And we were able to now put together not only a system that we still use inside of our business today, inside of our practice, you know, which I'm fortunate to have. But we've also been able to install into hundreds of practices and they're able to reap those benefits as well. So you're right, you know, those biggest challenges eventually turned into our greatest triumph for sure.

Always, man. That's great. You know, in TRP, we're always teaching our docs that every business exists to solve a problem, right? Every business. And that's how the more— the bigger problems you solve, the more successful the business is typically. And so specifically for you guys, not just what kind of problems do you solve, because there's a lot of digital marketing agencies, but what specifically makes you guys kind of unique that, that helps you solve a very specific type of problem for chiropractors?

Yeah, I would say that, you know, every, every person listening to this podcast is somewhere on the timeline of the chiropractic lifecycle as you guys communicate it, which is they're either about to launch a practice they're building a practice, they're scaling a practice, or they're looking to exit a practice. And so at every single one of those seasons or phases of the chiropractic life cycle, you have new challenges that arise. And, you know, what we set out to do was to solve one of the biggest challenges to growing a business, period, which is new business development and being able to generate new patients on demand. And so what we did is we essentially went under the hood and used our own diagnostic abilities to be able to identify exactly where the problems were in each of these different experiences that we had with agencies. And so when we were able to identify those problems and then solve those problems, which is typically high lead cost and poor quantity of leads, not getting the leads through the door, so having a low show rate, poor quality of leads or tire kickers as people like to call them, or you're flying blind with little to no data. You don't know which data to track. You don't have that data being communicated to you, so you can't make CEO-level data-informed decisions. And all of those things lead to a poor lagging indicator, as you like to say, uh, which would be poor outcomes.

Okay?

And so what we figured out is how to solve all 4 of those problems with our proprietary system. And then when we install that into these practices, which is first, the solution is getting the lead cost down. So generating more trust. We're in a trust economy right now. It's really hard to gain trust with people in the way that, um, our advertising or our creative framework was set up with all of these other experiences. It was generic and it was unspecific. And so we created a proprietary triad called the Triad of Trust, which is where we are relevant, omnipresent, and unique. So through the relevance, Uh, we like to target the largest motivating factor and meet people where they're at and speak to the experience that they're currently having right now through condition-specific funnels. And then with the uniqueness, we wanna position ourself as something different, a new opportunity, and really shine light on our point of difference and say what only you can say. And then with the relevance, we wanna leverage the exposure effect. Everybody knows that. You have to hear or see something 7 times before you're actually compelled to act. And so we, we like to leverage that through frequency of showing up on people's timelines so that you actually build familiarity with people and that actually builds trust over time. And then we tip the scale with social proof. So that's leveraging credibility and through, through character interchange, which means that people can actually see people inside your office getting the results that you're promising in your advertisements. So you're not being offer-focused, you're being condition-specific, and then you're building trust through all of these pieces of the anatomy of a conversion-based ad. And then you're, you're tipping the scale with that social proof and a compelling call to action. So eventually people come in trust matured. So you're gonna get higher lead quantity at a lower cost. They're gonna come in trust matured. They're gonna know who you are. They're gonna want your services that you provide. Which is typically care plan-based practices. And then we also teach people how to analyze data. So we, we teach them what data to analyze, how to track the ad-based data, which is gonna be on the Ads Manager to see actually their, their digital marketing specific metrics. And then we give them KPIs on where they should be, and then we give them all their systems metrics, right? Their lead to booking percentage, their booking to show rate, their show rate, to day 2s, their day 2 to conversion rate. And then we reverse engineer it through a client journey. And so we, we try to essentially identify where the constraints are throughout that process and then solve that constraint and then eventually lead to better outcomes over time. And so when we were able to solve those 4 basic problems inside of our system, and then we can take that system and replicate it for all of these other doctors, not only does it enhance their business acumen because they're starting to see marketing as an investment that can generate a really great, sustainable, and consistent return on investment instead of having unpredictability and inconsistency with low quality control, then that's where we were able to start solving big problems for a lot of people. And I think that's why we grew so quickly.

I love that. You said so many good things there. I hope the listeners didn't miss. Uh, first thing I wouldn't unpack was you talked about trust.

Right?

And, and it's like the currency nowadays isn't money. Currency now in business is trust.

Exactly.

Because there's so many options out there. People don't know what to pick. So if they trust something, they're much more likely to, to engage in business with that company. And so I love that you guys have a whole system to, you know, over time gain that trust, that exposure. It's where they see you and now they, there's a brand that they know and they, they feel that they can trust. It's why companies like Nike and Coca-Cola, they still spend so much in advertising because they want that top of mind awareness always being there. So you have that trust factor. And so, yeah, and that's great that you guys do that. The second thing I love was the data. Uh, that's my love language is, is speaking metrics and data. I know you, you know that about me. It's like, man, just data takes the emotion out of it. And I love that you guys break that down because really, I mean, when it comes to advertising and marketing, there's almost no important data that we can have than that because marketing can get expensive real quick if you don't know your data. It can also be the best investment you ever make. If you have the data. And so I love that you're talking, you know, cost per lead and cost per new patient, you know, CAC, cost to acquire customer, like all these really important numbers that you guys are measuring and stuff we're teaching our TRP clients how to understand and how to get. So I love that you guys already do that. That's going to be super, super valuable to your clients to be able to build that, you know, that data fluency around marketing. Because like I said, I mean, we want to be spending, we teach in TRP, you want to spend 8 to 12% of your goal revenue on marketing. Right? So if your goal this year is hit $1 million, you need to spend $80,000 to $120,000 on marketing. And what we find is the most chiropractors spend maybe 2% to 3%, and that's a huge missed opportunity. But if we're gonna invest 6 figures in marketing, we gotta make sure we're gonna get a good ROI for that. And that leads me into my next question for you is we always talk about how as CEOs and business owners, we want to get a good return on investment for anything that we do. So do you guys have, do you track what you expect or what you want to see as far as return on investment for clients that work with you guys?

We do. Yeah.

And our, our average ROAS, and this is again across, you know, 375 different markets in the United States. And there's always gonna be outliers. And we, we're not removing those outliers because we wanna give an average. We wanna give a realistic expectation because we always want to under-promise and over-deliver. As opposed to all of our prior experiences, it was the inverse. It was the over-promise and the under-deliver. And that led to disappointment on our, on our end. And I know you're big on expectations and agreements, so we like to be clear with this, that we have an average of 6x return on ad spend. And a lot of people are, they're dumbfounded by that because I think in, in their situation right now, they're potentially breaking even, you know, on good months they're breaking even. Maybe they have a great 2x ROAS, something like that. But whenever you can take the, uh, retainer fee out of the, out of the equation, and, uh, you know what data to track that so that you can start to confidently increase your ad spend and you can actually start to scale that spend past that 2 to 3% of gross revenue or your gross revenue goal, then you can start to see a higher return, especially whenever you're solving all of these constraints, uh, like I outlined in our system. And, you know, a 6x ROAS for a lot of practices, I mean, that's, that could be practice changing. You know, and then once you hit that, uh, our average metric, which is typically between month 1 and month 2, then we can start to scale the ad spend. And we know that there's not a direct proportion of scaling ad spend versus the return that you get. It's not like you get a 6x return on ad spend and you can double your ad spend and still get a 6x. Sometimes that ROAS goes down a little bit, uh, the more that you spend. It's just how scaling works. But you know, if you're putting in $1,000, and you're getting out $4,500 at a really high ad spend, maybe you're, you know, a couple million dollar a year practice, it's still an incredible investment long term, especially when you know how to look at the data, analyze the data, make data-informed decisions so that you're constantly improving, or at least you're maintaining consistency and predictability because then you can make better decisions.

Always. Yeah. And so you, you threw out some good terms there. So ROAS, for our listeners who don't know, that's return on ad spend. And I think, I think you did say it, but I wanted to be clear. Return on ad spend is simply for every dollar I put in, how many dollars do I get back in revenue?

Right?

And so he's talking about 6 to 1. So that means for every dollar you put in, you're gonna get $6 back in revenue. Like how many, how many dollars can you get if you're getting that kind of return? Right? So people ask me like, you know, how much should I spend on marketing? I say, well, what's your, first of all, what's your ROAS? What's your return on the investment? And second, how many new patients do you need? Like you should spend as much on marketing as you can until all your new patient slots are filled up, as long as you're getting a positive return on investment. And once all your new patient slots are filled, now it's like, okay, how can I maybe get a, you know, better return? How can I go from a 5-to-1 to a 7-to-1 or 8-to-1, right? But it's like, even if I'm getting a 3-to-1, guess what? I'm getting a return and I'm getting more new patients into those new patient time slots. Because we know that every new patient time slot that's empty on your weekly calendar, that's lost revenue. That's lost opportunity cost. That's somebody that could have been a new patient that could have turned into money, but because you didn't have enough marketing, it was a dead spot in the schedule. And so we want to really focus on that and then we can optimize after that. So yeah, so great talking numbers with you, Travis, as always.

Yeah, for sure.

Great. So last question I have for you. I'm sure some listeners are intrigued by this and want to reach out and see how they can learn more about your company and maybe possibly work with you. What's the best way for our listeners to get in contact with you?

Uh, it's a great question. They can actually go to makingmoves.com. So it's M-A-K-I-N-G-M-U-V-E-S. So Making Moves is the parent company. Cairo Ads Academy is the product, uh, makingmoves.com/trp.

Perfect.

That'd be great. So guys, if you're interested in talking to Dr. Travis and learning more about his company, please reach out to them. Go to that URL specifically for TRP Docs, and they can, uh, I'm sure do an assessment of the existing, uh, marketing that, that they're doing and then help give suggestions on how you guys can make it better.

Yeah. And just to be extremely clear, this is a coaching program, so it's catch and release. So we teach you how to install this system in-house so that you have the control. And then essentially after that, there's no retainer fee, there's no program costs. It's just you putting marketing into your ad spend with the skills that you have developed over that 6 months.

Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Dr. Travis, for being here with us. Thanks for taking the time.

Absolutely, Eric. Thanks for having me.

Absolutely. So Remarkable CEOs, remember, tune in each week to the Remarkable CEO Podcast. I hope everybody has a blessed day and we'll catch you guys next week.

Thanks for listening to this episode of the Remarkable CEO Podcast. Remember, what the world needs now is chiropractic, and what chiropractic needs now is more successful chiropractors. If you like this podcast, please subscribe, share with a friend, and leave us a review. And if you'd like to connect with us personally, direct message us on Facebook, LinkedIn, or Instagram. Now go and be remarkable.