080 - What Conviction and Philosophy Means for Growth with Dr. Scott Sawyer

There was a time when you would go to jail for practicing chiropractic, and it's easy to get up in front of a room of chiropractors and, you know, shout at the rooftops and jump up and down and rah, rah, rah. And would you go to jail for chiropractic? Yeah, I would. Of course I would. I'd go to jail. But I actually don't think that's the question we should be asking. That's been done. The question I would ask every chiropractor is, if you were thrown in jail for practicing chiropractic, the better question to ask is, would your patients bail you out?

Hello, and welcome to Build you'd Remarkable Practice podcast. This podcast is dedicated to chiropractors who are in the seasons of launching and building their practice. Join myself, Dr. Lona, and my co host, Dr. Bobby as we have conversations each week as it relates to building the practice of your. And remember, you can have a remarkable practice as part of a remarkable life, not instead of one. We are here to lead you on the way. All right, welcome back to Build you'd Remarkable Practice Podcast. And I have one of our newest coaches and someone that I know loves chiropractic deeply, and he's going to be sharing from his heart today about building yourself up as the chiropractor. So welcome Dr. Scott Sawyer. Thanks for joining me today.

Thank you for having me, Lona.

Yeah, of course. So let's just jump right in. Tell us a little bit about how you decided to become a chiropractor. To start with.

I grew up in Santa Cruz, California. I've been here my whole life. And my mom is a retired nurse, and she really enjoyed her work. She worked graveyard shifts for many years, which was really grueling, but you could just tell that she loved it. And so I kind of. I developed my passion for helping people, I think, from her and had a path set up in college to go into physical therapy and bumped into a family friend who is a chiropractor. And he said, you're going to be a physical therapist. No, you're not. Yeah, you're going to be a chiropractor. And this just happened to be at a casual party. It was like over a beer. It was completely random. I had no idea that he was planting the seed that he was planting. And so I said, wow, that's kind of cool. Okay. I said, why is that? He says, well, you're gonna make a bunch of money and you're gonna be your own Boss. And you're gonna get to help people like your mom does. And as a young kid coming out of basically high school, just starting college, those three things sounded really appealing.

Yes. And it was a PT that said this to you, is that right?

No, he's a chiropractor.

Oh, okay. Okay. He was like, okay, that makes more sense.

But I was going to physical therapy school, like, doing some undergraduate stuff. And so it was, you know, it's just that moment, and I thought, wow, that's kind of cool. Actually, I. I have to back up even a little more because growing up in Santa Cruz, and this is going to sound made up, but it. It is true, I promise. I grew up in a house off grid with no electricity and no telephone. Sixth grade, I rode a pony to school literally every day.

And now you would be instantly famous on. On Instagram and TikTok with all the things that were normal for you at that point. Yeah.

Yes. But many would call that poverty. You know, that was kind of the thinking was like, gosh, we really are roughing it out here. But I loved it as a child, being. Growing up in that environment. So the thought of making a decent living, being able to set my schedule, be my own boss and helping people like that, just checked all the boxes. And so I went and took a tour of Palmer west and instantly thought, this is cool. I want to sign up. I'm doing it. But I hadn't really. It hadn't really sunk in yet until I went to. Actually, that answers your question. We'll get into a little bit more in terms of what happened later. But that's how I got introduced to chiropractic. And actually, there's a parallel story. I was surfing. I'm a pretty avid surfer. I surf a couple times a week or more. And I hurt my back. And my mom sent. Because she was a nurse, so she sent me to a osteopath who had me on the table and said, you know, I see what's going on here, and I. I'm going to use a. A chiropractic technique for you, and if this works, you should see a chiropractor. So that kind of coincided with that conversation I had with a family friend.

Divine appointments. Yeah.

Those two things set me on track.

Yeah. That's beautiful. So did you. You got adjusted then, at that point, and went to chiropractic school already knowing what the adjustment was or at least experiencing it? Is that true?

Yes. Okay. Yeah.

I was wondering, did you just go and you had never been adjusted or no.

Okay, so it was an interesting story there too because I hurt my back, as I said, and I went and got adjusted and. But, and then he had me sitting up in a chair and I'm phrasing this because at the time I knew nothing about this, but he was, I was sitting up in a chair and he did this thing to my neck and he didn't tell me why he did it. I knew what he was doing to my lower back. But when I came back from my follow up visit for my report of findings.

Yeah.

I said, what did you do to my neck? And he said, oh, I found a problem there. And so I adjusted you. And I said, you know, I don't know what happened, but I can breathe better.

Yes.

It was just a little comment that I made. I had no idea what he was doing, what I was getting into. I was 19 years old and. But my back felt better and I could go surfing and that's really all I cared about. Yeah, but that started it.

There's some things I just want to point out because on this podcast we do an ntrp. I think we sometimes make assumptions that, that, that something of like being able to deliver the goods, to love, humanity, to want to help, to go deeper in your philosophy, like that you're going to do those things, right. And then we're building this business structure around it and teaching you how to have a team and teaching you how to do proper day one, day two, et cetera. And that is all really good. But at the foundation of it all is what Dr. Scott just showed us. There is that do you want to desire to help people? And can you like kind of be amazed by this thing called the adjustment and the simplicity in it? And even in that case where the guy didn't even explain what he was really doing to you, you were like, whoa, there's like life before I was adjusted and then there was life after I got an adjustment and there was something different there, right?

Yes.

And that's the part to me that is like, that has to be there on some level. Right. Like, so if you're listening to that and that's not there for you, it's possible that just you haven't been allowed to find that yet. Right. Get yourself around some of the resources that are available in chiropractic, which maybe that's my next question then for you, Scott, is like, as you found yourself in school, maybe even post school, how did you start to really understand chiropractic and fall in love with chiropractic?

That is a great question. I'm smiling because I went into school just studying my brains out. As I said, I grew up in a pretty challenged childhood and just really wanted to apply myself and actually do good in school. And I never forgot my first quarter at Palmer when I started was 32 units. And, you know, now I have two kids in college. My wife and I have raised our kids in Santa Cruz. They're both born at home, never vaccinated. I mean, we live, eat and breathe the chiropractic lifestyle.

But your house is now on the grid. I'm just kidding.

It is, actually. We have a garden and we try to find this middle ground. Yes, we are on the grid. The. Oh, gosh. And I lost my train of thought.

Oh, how did you fall in love with chiropractic?

Oh, yeah. Okay. So I went into school and my joke in hindsight was always, if I had known how absolutely focused I was going to become on chiropractic and how enthusiastic I would be about the principles, the 33 principles, and just being engrossed in that because it's so easy to become engrossed in it. It's such an amazing mission that we're on. If I had known that, I probably wouldn't have passed all my science classes because once I got in there, I was realizing once I got through those classes and I realized why I was there, which was to walk the stage and go out and serve people, all those hours of studying might not have been so important.

But there's a lot of hoops to jump through for sure. In chiropractic school that may or may not have a lot to do with what we actually end up doing later on, right?

Yes. It teaches us character. My dad used to tell when I didn't want to get up and go to work in the morning, and my dad would say, it builds character. Just go. So I looked up the definition of character and he said, and it says the ability to continue on with a task after the initial excitement is gone. And in chiropractic school, you know, that's the intimidating thing that kids run into these days is they're, they're, they want, you know, this short term gratification and then they're looking at this eight year program of college. And they're like, eight years, that's a lifetime. I, I don't want to go to college for a lifetime. And you know, unfortunately, that could be a barrier to entry.

Yes, for sure. And then, and then the real learning that comes, not that chiropractic School is not learning. It is, but there's a whole nother unlearning and relearning and the deeply learning the philosophy that many schools don't necessarily have on their campus where it is, I'm going to say it is a tough profession in the sense that there's an immense amount of unlearning and relearning and learning new abilities, whether that's the business side, the. The team building side, the business to the next level side, and then of course, the philosophy and unwinding, all the programming we've had about what health is really about. Right. But this is also where I think it's like, if you are someone who would consider yourself a lifelong more learner, like, great, come on in. Because there's never going to be an end. It's not like if I asked you, Scott, and you've been in practice 27 years, do you think that you know everything there is to know about innate intelligence and chiropractic?

Nope. There's more.

It's like the deeper you go, the more you're like, I actually have no idea. You know, like, it's fascinating. Right. And I trust it. But then you start to like, yeah.

That'S so key that what you just said, because that lifelong passion for learning and then just trusting, which kind of going back to your question, that's sort of what I was going on, was trust in the beginning. But once my convictions set in it, there's just no wavering on it. And what's beautiful, I brought some books just to share today, but you asked me, you know, what, what was that turning Point? Well, I went to a seminar with Jerry Klum and a bunch of big legends in chiropractic. And this fellow was there speaking, who's Herbert Reaver? He was still alive back then. And he, for those who don't know, was the most jailed chiropractor back when it was illegal to practice. And he went to jail for six months on his last round. And what was amazing about this, what.

Is the name of that book? Can you even find that book somewhere else?

No, it's called A Man Worth Knowing and it's just a biography of Herbert Reaver.

Oh, I got chills. Yeah, cool book to read.

And he was so humble about his experience when he spoke at that seminar. They brought him up to speak and he just got. He said about five words and then he got choked up and sat down and his wife Millie came up and actually started talking for him. And the story, in short, is that he was thrown in jail for practicing chiropractic a bunch of times. Eventually it led up to where he refused. But once he was in the. In jail for practicing, his patients would pick it outside to get him out and protest. And the guards inside the jail wanted him to adjust them. So he finally said, I'll. I'll adjust the guards here, but I want a room in the. By the warden. I'm not going to adjust them in my cell. So the warden said, okay. And he gave him a room right next to his office. And that's where Dr. Reaver adjusted the inmates and the staff at the jail when he was there. And you know, you, you just think, see, I get goosebumps thinking about that because, like, how far would we go for chiropractic? And that's one thing that I just absolutely love about TRP is the systems that we have with TRP give us this foundation that really there's no ceiling. Like you were mentioning earlier about that pursuit of knowledge. Right. There's an old movie called the Happiness of Pursuit. I prefer the statement of the Pursuit or, sorry, the Pursuit of Happiness was the movie. I prefer to say the Happiness of Pursuit. A philosopher never has reached the limit of their knowledge. They're always searching for more knowledge. And in chiropractic, like you said, we're working with universal and innate intelligence. There's no limit. Right. So once I found that, I just was so ready to dive in headfirst, full on.

Yeah, I'm with you. And I grew up also being exposed to chiropractic. And I had been adjusted since I was a child, since I was a baby. But I knew, I knew it in my being that it was good for people. And that was simple. But I didn't know the philosophy. But I thought everyone had access to chiropractic, just like I thought most people went to the dentist, that type of thing. So when I went to school and they. And I did not go to principal school and didn't get much philosophy, I was lucky enough that I had people that dragged me certain places. And I, I think it was once that really like, connected, like we're doing this for the nervous system. And then as I really started to understand, like above, down, inside out, and like the concepts of like, man, spiritual demand, physical and tone, right. That I was like, this is such a game changer. This is. Your whole perspective on life changes when you let the philosophy really be the philosophy of life for you, which is what chiropractic is about. And health is a byproduct. Of it. But chiropractic is about life. Right. And so even like us being in healthcare sometimes to me is sort of like a stretch. I'm like, we're in life care. Like, yeah, better health and better health outcomes are part of that. But also so is engaging in your work and so is like being a loving member of your family. When your tone changes, everything in your life changes.

Yeah.

Yeah. And so I think like this idea that we can trust the body to. To show us like that expression and be curious about our patients as they lay on the table, curious about ourselves, curious about our team and, and know that like, we don't have to be the one. Like, we're not doing the healing. Like, that part, I think also is a critical piece of growth for most doctors when they realize, like, I actually don't have to control everything. Right. Like, I can't.

Yeah, you're recognizing the innate wisdom of the body. And there's. It's limitless. It's healing cancer every day. So what are we to surpass that? There's no way.

Right? Well, and even like when there is dis. Ease, like, is that part of what that system needs to, like, you know, sometimes we have to go through challenges in order to make change too.

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You know, when we think about younger docs, newer docs in the profession, building their first practice and starting to realize that there's a lot that goes into building a practice. Like not only the business side but also just in stewarding patients, right? Seeing more than five people a week, you know, like you did in school kind of thing. Talk to me Dr. Scott about as you were helping more and more people like how did you start to hold this thing called chiropractic loose enough so that I think for some people it can feel like it's really heavy on you if you're trying to like fix everyone or control everything like in a high volume practice, it's like a dance, right? Talk to us about that. Creating that mental head space to help and help people heal but not take the load on yourself.

Another great question. I'm going to go back to my story for a second because you asked about when the turning point was and I was in 9th quarter and my friend took me to an ICA seminar where as I said, I met Herbert Revert and saw Jim Sigafoose, Jerry Klum, Fred Barge, all these amazing speakers and the simplicity of how they explain the principle of chiropractic and their mission. There, there's a gentleman that passed away now, but Jim Gregg was another high volume pioneer chiropractor who spoke at that seminar and, and he was talking about adjusting 500 people in a day. And I was still a student and just the thought of seeing 500 people in a day, I thought, my gosh, that's, I never even thought of that. But it, it opened my eyes. And, and so to stay on point with your question, which is again a great topic, is, you know, when you understand what your purpose is and you can convey that with conviction and certainty to your patients, they connect with that. I teach my better results faster workshop, just like you. I teach it, you know, every month and I always open the class with when is it that you enter the healthcare system? Is it when you're healthy or when you're sick? And everybody kind of stops And I say, then they say it's when you're sick. That's right. But that's not healthcare, that's, that's sick care. And we have a great sick care system. It saves lives every day. I'm not here to compete with that, but I think if I was to ask each one of you which side of the aisle you would rather be on, do you want to live in sick care or do you wanna live in healthcare? I wanna live in healthcare. And whose responsibility is healthcare? It's ours. So when I'm taking care of a patient and I know my responsibility is to find and correct subluxations so that that person can express their innate potential and have the highest quality of life for as long as they're genetic, possibly genetically able to, then it makes it easy to not get pulled off track. Because the minute our patients leave our office, they're getting bombarded with, you know, the mechanistic and allopathic model. When they come into our office, it's a sanctuary. This is the above down inside out model. And they'll, they'll, and I'm going to say this kind of bluntly, I don't mean it literally like this, but they'll kind of try to pull us off of our path a little bit. You know, like, hey doc, my head's hurting, what are you going to do to fix that? Or you know, that kind of thing. And, but when we, when we are really on purpose. And we understand what our mission is. It's very easy to just say, well, I'm going to find and correct your subluxations. And by doing that, you're going to have the best ability to heal and to maintain optimum health. So let's get on with it. And that keeps me centered. And just to add a story to that, because when I got out of school, I was on a mission. Like, I'd heard these mentors of mine just talk about huge numbers. And so I just hit the ground, put my nose to the grindstone, and started seeing as many people as I could. And within two years of opening my doors, I was already seeing over 200 patients a day. And at the time when we. The day. When we hit the 200 a day, I had it written. I'd already written it on my whiteboard that I wanted to see 300 in a day. And when we hit the 200, I realized, I think I'm going to pull that back. But to this day, like Yesterday, I adjusted 149 people yesterday.

I love that.

I just love it. You get into this groove and you're just. It's from patient to patient. It's funny. I'll have a conversation with a patient about a subluxation or how it's going to help their life. And I have an open adjusting room. So I'll move on to the next two, three, four patients.

And.

And I'm still having the same conversation, talking about the same thing. And it's in an open room, so they all hear it. And there's no. I'm sorry. Yeah. What?

It's fun.

Oh, it's. It is. It's fueling. Like, it's. It just. You build this momentum. Like, patients always ask me, like, you must be tired. You've worked all day. Like 11 hours, 12 hours. I go, I just pull a little bit of energy from each patient. You're my positive energy. Give me a little bit of that, and I'll adjust you and send you on your way. And I just love it.

Yeah, that's beautiful. And that's flow. And it's like, I. Sometimes I'm joking, but I'm not joking. Is like, is it for me? Is it for you? I don't know. It's for both of us, right? Like. Like they're getting their spine assessed and a beautiful adjustment and someone that's connected to wanting to help them. And at the same time, it's helping you, because also, sometimes you hear something on the table. You're Like, I needed that. Like they're sharing something. And so I think that's one of the beautiful things when we honor that there's this intelligence working through all of us. Right. Like nothing is really random. Right. It's all part of this organization because our major premise tells us that. So I know we could talk about this stuff all day. Scott, this is good. I'm fired up. I think in closing things here, what I love, because you are someone who it's oozing from you that you love chiropractic and you're on fire for it. And you've been in it for so long too, and still feeling that way. Where would you, like, if someone's listening, they're like, I don't have that thing yet. Like, I don't feel that yet. Is there places that you would tell them to go for seminars right now or is there books? I know you showed us the one. Like what would your resources for them be? And I know you're coaching chiropractors too, so you definitely can reach out through TRP and connect with Scott as well.

Yeah. You know, we're all individuals, so certain things strike us in different ways. I read a lot. I've got other books that I brought just for some props. This is my favorite green book of all time. The Bigness of the Fellow within by BJ Palmer. This one happens to be a first edition and it's actually signed by bj.

Oh my gosh.

I also have a first edition Dede book.

Oh, that's awesome.

First edition. But, but so having a mentor, having someone that's, that's leading the path so that you're not trying to reinvent the wheel makes it so much easier. I mean, even all of us are, excuse me, we, you know, we're. What's the pygmy versus giant and thoughts, BJ's book. And you know, we're, we're carrying on this legacy and there's been so many cycles of different practice styles and, and even science. Right. I mean, if we look back, this is 130 years for chiropractic this year. That's amazing. And if you look at the, the basis of medicine 130 years ago, what, what the techniques and the practices and the approaches were 130 years ago. How many of those now? 130 years later? Not many, if any. Yet with chiropractic, we have not only brought in the science and the art and the philosophy together into one profession, but in 130 years, we're still basing our truth and the science still supports it to this day.

So I believe dede was so ahead of his time that I think we're still trying to catch up to what he was truly downloading and writing about.

So I think, you know, with a, with a. Having that, having the path that you want to go on, making a difference in the world for anybody that's starting practice or even been in practice or is continuing in chiropractic, having a group around you of like minded people that, you know, we all have a down day, we all trip and bloody our nose every once in a while and we need someone to help us get back up. And I think that's where TRP comes in. There's such a camaraderie and such a mission that is pulling all of us together as like minded people. That fuels me, that makes me get up early in the morning and say I'm ready for another day. Bring it on.

Yeah. That's awesome. All right, Scott, are you on social media?

I am. I grew up in a house with no electricity. I do have a phone. I don't carry it with me. My team makes me look really smart.

Yeah. Okay. So basically here's what I'm going to say is if you want connect with Scott, do it through TRP in the show notes, connect in with him. I want to have you back on. We can geek out some more on some of this chiro philosophy. And you guys, if you haven't gotten that, that element in your heart yet, like this is a really like, do not pass. Go, go find that, go talk to Scott. Talk to me. Find some mentors in your area that can help bring you to things that are going to help get you dipped into finding this philosophy and being curious about it. That doesn't mean you're going to understand it immediately. That's not the goal is to just be curious and start to learn more about this thing that we do that maybe you weren't exposed to yet. I think it's lacking sometimes in our education process at this point. So you're going to have to go out and get it.

Yes, you do. It's not a spectator sport, it's a participation sport. You have to, you have to go get it, you have to be engaged. And that goes with just everything in life. Right? We want to participate, we want to be engaged. So there's something that drives me and I think about this often, if I was the last chiropractor standing, actually before I even answer that, I'll just say there was A time in history when, you know, a handful of people in the room was all the chiropractors in the world. Thank goodness we're way beyond that.

That's amazing.

From that look where we've come, right? So my thought is, I have two things that I want to bring this in for a landing with you. And I know you'll share with my passion about this. The two things that really drive me is, number one, if I was the last chiropractor standing, would the profession not only survive but thrive because we have a message? I mean, I don't know about you, but I go on vacation with my wife and my kids and we've gone around the world and everywhere I go in the world, I end up adjusting a bunch of people. I mean, it's like my own little private mission trip. We were in Mexico and I adjusted the entire hotel. It was 50 or 60 people on a five day vacation. It was awesome. So spreading that message and spreading the word, as I said, really drives me because it started with one and here we are in the thousands and still growing. I guess I'll make it into three points because coming out of the COVID thing, however you want to get into that or think about that bit of history, I have more patients now asking questions and questioning mainstream medicine and wanting to be more proactive in their health than I've ever had in nearly 30 years in practice. More questions like, what was that? How? What should I follow what they're telling me on the TV anymore?

Yeah.

So that's point two. And then point three is that really drives me, is, you know, as I was saying with Herbert Reber, there was a time when you would go to jail for practicing chiropractic. And it's easy to get up in front of a room of chiropractors and, you know, shout at the rooftops and jump up and down and rah, rah, rah. And would you go to jail for chiropractic? Yeah, I would. Of course I would. I'd go to jail. But I actually don't think that's the question we should be asking. That's been done. The question I would ask every chiropractor is if you were thrown in jail for practicing chiropractic, the better question to ask is, would your patients bail you out? And, you know, there's practices that close all the time, which is tragic, and the patients just walk away and they don't get adjusted anymore. Oh, I've been there, done that. My chiropractor retired. Oh, well, no, we have something much more significant than that. And so what the way I look at my practice is, and I'll be adjusting as long as I can walk is I drop dead. What are my patients going to do if I'm told I can't practice chiropractic anymore? Which we in California, we were this close during the shutdown as being a, what was it called, a non essential business. We were that close. The CCA fought for it and unfortunately we were able to remain an essential business. But even during that time when there was this threat, I mean, you remember it was just a few years ago, we might be shut down, we might be declared a non essential business. I told all my patients, if there's a closed door on the front of my office building, the back door will be open, I'll be there. You just come in, I'll take care of you. And that's my big picture approach is like, we all want to make a difference in the world as individuals. We want to do something significant. We want to pass on some thing that we did that bad meaning in life. It's sitting right in our hand. With chiropractic, it doesn't get any easier. We just have to hold on to it and hold firm and stay true to our principles and we're going to blow the roof off for the end, until the end of time.

So good. So good. And I'm just going to point out here, I think you just have a little bit of conviction and we talk about the need of conviction. Right. And just a little bit there, I'm going to add one thing to what you just said there and that is, you know, yes, would your patients come bail you out? And we're in a time and place in a post 2020 world where maybe the ask isn't, would you go to jail and would your patients bail you out? Maybe it's like, would you grow your practices and expand and provide more care to more people in your community, even if it's uncomfortable? Right. Like if you had to step into becoming more impactful, more beneficial to your community because you can serve that many more people and that many more families actually have access. Like Dr. Fransen says, the families are healthier and safer than families not in our practice. Right. I think that is where we're at now. There's so many people coming over like in droves to more of the truth that we know about health and well being. Our practices, you know, can only hold so many. If we don't learn how to grow and scale so I think it's really important. Anyways, I'm gonna round us out here. Thank you so much for coming on with me, Scott. We'll definitely be back around for round. And I want to touch those books that you have.

I got a few of them here, actually. I do want to just give a shout out to the gentleman that I found the Green books through, but Tim Faulkner is a good friend of mine. Dear friend. This book encompasses Oakley Smith's journey along.

With DD called the Chiropractor Protege.

The Chiropractor's Protege. Great historical book. It only covers about 10 years in the history of chiropractic, but it is such a significant part of our history. So if there was one book that I could recommend, there it is.

Yeah.

So excellent book. And. And thank you for. For your passion and energy. I remember when I first met you. Well, I actually hadn't even met you yet. You were on stage speaking, and I had just come to trp and it was. It was literally my first seminar and. And I. You got up on stage and I came up to you afterwards because there was a whole series of speakers and they were all very valuable. They all had great input. But I came up to you afterwards and I said, I love your presentation because the philosophy that you carry with you is so spot on.

Thank you.

And so, yeah, you. You are awesome.

Appreciate that. All right, well, we'll be together in Phoenix in a month, and if you're interested in our immersions through trp, like, connect with us, we'd love for you to come as our guest. Check it out. It's got. I'm excited. You've revved me up for the day and I'll talk to you soon.

Great, Lana, keep up the good work. And, yes, I'll see you soon. Thank you.

Thanks for listening to this episode of Build you'd Remarkable Practice podcast. Remember, what the world needs now is chiropractic. And what chiropractic needs now is more successful chiropractors. If you like the podcast, please subscribe, share with your friends, and leave us a review. And if you'd like to connect with us personally, please click the links in the show notes to schedule a call.