082 - How Do You Scale One Clinic to $7M and Beyond with Dr. Josiah Fitzsimmons

Is I think a lot of people read a lot. They read a lot of books, they take a little action. And so I've been. I'm a big proponent on less take more action. I'd much rather do something than just continually get more and more knowledge because we have more knowledge in the history of the world. There's no but there's no information that you can't learn. It's just actually do something with it.

Hello and welcome to Build your Remarkable Practice podcast. This podcast is dedicated to chiropractors who are in the seasons of launching and building their practice. Join myself, Dr. Lona and my co host, Dr. Bobby as we have conversations each week as it relates to building the practice of your dreams. And remember, you can have a remarkable practice as part of a remarkable life, not instead of one. We are here to lead you on the way.

What's up, team? Welcome back to the Build your Remarkable Practice podcast. And today I've got a special guest with you on the call. It is not Dr. Luna Cook, but it is someone who I'm super excited to be having a conversation with and some of guys who I've had pleasure of knowing in my life. Personally, I would say upwards of five years now. And watching the journey that has been on has been truly remarkable. The multiple stages of it. I remember the first time that we met, it was already doing impressive things. But then watching over the last four to five years, what's happened, ultra inspiring. Not just for you guys that are listening today and, you know, not just for us that get to interview him or myself that gets to interview him. But I would say, quite frankly, what you've achieved in practice last few years, Josiah, is an inspiration for chiropractic, which shows you what's possible. Because for a long time I thought, you know what? There's a natural ceiling of what a chiropractic office could do. I never thought if someone had asked me, could a single chiropractic office do eight figures in revenue a year? You know, could you crack that magical eight figures in revenue of $10 million plus a year? My answer would have been no, until you and I started chatting more. And if you ask me a question now, I would say the answer is absolutely yes. And I would say if there's someone going to do it first, it would be you. We're talking in a single location. So this next guest, guys, that we've got today, we get the great picture of going into the brain of someone who's a genius in chiropractic, someone who's absolutely just a stud when it comes to building his practice and understanding all the systems that it takes to scaling. Probably one of the biggest, if not the biggest practice in chiropractic right now today, revenue wise, single location. So, guys, I'm talking about the none other than the amazing Dr. Josiah from Lucro and from Vero Chiropractic. Dr. Josiah. What's going on, my friend? How you doing, bro? Hey.

Doing great. Yeah, it's been a pleasure meeting you. You know, I still need to make it down and battle some kangaroos with you, but it's been. Been a pleasure getting learning from you, you know, these last five years as well. So thank you.

Yeah, you got to come down here, battle some kangaroos, but you got to bring your A game because they'd probably kick your butt. They're pretty violent.

Yeah, I've seen some video. Those things are muscular. Those guys work out.

Yeah, they are jacked. They don't muck around for sure. So tell me this, man. People would have heard. Those of you guys who haven't heard, I would say right now, Dr. Psy probably has the single, single biggest single office location in chiropractic. But I'll let him share the story. Why don't you take us through your journey in chiropractic? So I know you guys launched with a bang, and I know, you know, ever since day one, you guys have just been growing on this amazing, steep and amazing curve, which isn't normal in chiropractic. So we'd love to hear your story. Talk to us about your story in chiropractic and how you guys have grown your office. I'd love to hear it.

Yeah, so for me, I'm going all the way back to undergrad, really. I was playing football in college, got injured. Injured. Went to this local chiropractor, and I was getting adjusted. And, you know, at that point, I was pre med. I was about. About take the MCATs, thought, I want to be an orthopedic surgeon. And the guy's like, you know, you can be a doctor and an entrepreneur. And I literally was like, entrepreneur what? Like, I don't even know what that word means. Like, my. My dad still waits tables. My mom delivers newspapers. Like, I grew up very low income. $500 car was the nicest car I ever had growing up. And so I had no idea what an entrepreneur was or business owner. And he kind of painted this picture of, you know, what's possible. And I was really loving the natural, holistic approach. My dad was really Always into nutrition. And so it was really, I was like, man, if I can be a doctor, help people serve what I wanted to do, and from a natural perspective and really figure out what this entrepreneur thing was simultaneous. It really just clicked. And so I decided to go to chiropractic school, you know, with that in mind. But I knew going into chiropractic school, I really wanted to open my own business. And so I was fortunate to have that mindset going into chiropractic school that I knew I need to learn how to run a business from the beginning of going to chiropractor school. And so when I was got into chiropractor school, I quickly learned that they don't teach you many business principles in school. And so I then, you know, really made it my mission that I need to figure out how to run a business these next three and a half years while I'm getting my chiropractic degree. And so I ended up going to over 50 different chiropractic clinics around the country while I was a student, trying to learn how they do their SOPs, how they do their processes, how they do marketing, how they do sales, how they do finances, operations, you know, adjusting all those things. And so I was really blessed to learn from lots of different chiropractors, you know, a lot of things to do, maybe even more things not to do. And so along the way, I was just really documenting, you know, everything I learned, asked for lots of questions. I always just been very curious, you know, to try and learn, you know, little bits and pieces from everybody. And so that's. Then I did, I just tried to combine all those little experiences of those 50 different clinics that I learned while I was in school and opened my own clinic just four months after graduating from chiropractic school. And we.

Let me jump in. So let me, let me jump in, let me jump in here because I know this is now when the story starts to go to the next level, but I want to chime in because the mindset behind what you just chatted about, a lot of people can learn from already. So there's two things that I heard you say that and correct me if I'm right with this. So number one, you realize in school that, you know what? I better go learn. So you went and you mirrored people essentially, right? You went and you looked to see, okay, if I could get into enough offices, I could mirror behaviors, so I could mirror successful behaviors. And then also you could start to learn all what were non sexual successful behaviors. That was the first thing I noticed, and then the second thing I heard you say you documented. Is that something that you do? Like, do you get pen and paper out and write it down on paper? Like something that just is part of your process now, like actually documenting things? Because I hear people say all the time that, you know, when you have thoughts in your mind and you learn things, if they're not written down on a piece of paper, there's no organization around those thoughts. And I've heard of plenty of people that go out and observe offices, but don't actually do anything with it. Don't do anything of substance with it. Is that a practice that you can share straight off the bat there? Do you document in terms of pen and paper? How do you do that?

Yeah, I hear video. I'm holding up. I got pen and paper written in front of me. But every single conversation I have with anybody, you know, I've always been, you know, that I can learn no matter who I talk to, no matter what, whether it be business, personal relationships, faith, fitness, you know, anybody you have a conversation with in life, you can get a takeaway to improve in any area of life. So, yeah, anytime I have meetings with people, that's something I don't have a notebook with, you know, a pen that I can, you know, draw down things. And then not only that, I'm very meticulous on then going back through my notes on a consistent basis and making sure I took action steps based on those notes. And one thing, if you've ever heard any of my presentations or I would say most of my talks, I talk about don't take notes, write action steps. And anytime, anytime you listen to someone or anytime you're learning, whether it be this podcast or any other opportunity you're talking to someone, is what are the actual things that you're going to implement and take action on as a result of what you learned? You don't just want to take notes. Hey, that was a good idea. Gonna go nowhere. And that's just a big differentiator. I didn't really realize that was. That was maybe differentiator for me than other people. There's. I think a lot of people read a lot. They read a lot of books, they take a little action. And so I've been. I'm a big proponent on less take more action. I'd much rather do something than just continually get more and more knowledge, because we have more knowledge in the history of the world. There's no. But there's no information that you can't learn. It's just actually do something with it.

Yeah, I think that in itself is absolute genius. If you were to stop the podcast right now, guys, and take action on what we've discussed in the first four minutes, you would change your life. And I couldn't agree with you more because I see people. Recently, I was talking to a associate of mine. He's like, oh man, I made it a mission this year to read a book every single week. And I'm like, okay, well what's the purpose of reading a book every single week? That means you've got 52 books over the course of the year. Is it really about the quantity of books that you read or is it about the quality of how much you implement and the quantity of how much you implement per book? Because I can tell you I've probably read less books than. But the books that I do read, I reread and I take notes and I take action. And if you just implement everything that you can from one book, it can absolutely change your life. So I love that you write things down. I love that you got in front of you. And I've got them in front of me as well here. Literally, I've got my notepad successfully excluded. I'm exactly the same. It's right in front of me with a pen, writing things down as I'm learning, as I'm going. So there's something about making a bill and putting it into the universe when you write it down. So come back to the story then. All right, so you're out in practice first year out, you're launching the door. You're a chiropractor with you guys that are listening, what happens next, man?

Yeah, so that was one of the big things I learned, you know, I was going to these offices is that a lot of them did in person. Events, meetings, networking, low cost marketing strategies. Like I said, I didn't come from much from a background, so I didn't have really any financial backing. I was actually able, very blessed. My in laws took out a home equity line of credit on their house to co sign with my wife to get a business loan. And so that's was the financing we had. And so we're very particular about, you know, being frugal, you know, with our money, making sure that we're spending dollars wisely. And so, you know, I was like, well, what are all the lowest cost activities, you know, that I could do? My wife and I, Megan, we averaged five to seven meetings a day for the next four months. Most of them were at Coffee shops, just meeting with local business owners, local community members. We started getting involved in very low cost, you know, screening events. And the first one I ever did was called Sisters Craft Fair. It was like $20. I have a booth at this event. And it was really just grassroots marketing is what we did. Collecting business cards and taking notes and following up with emails and thank you cards. And we ended up having a ribbon cutting before we opened at the largest ribbon cutting in our city's history. And then we ended up scheduling over 400 people that had paid prepaid for an appointment to come in our office before our first day open.

So talk to me about that because that's definitely not normal. So you guys scheduled 400 prepaid new patients. Did you do that by simply hitting ground and like screening and marketing wherever you could have a foundational member special where it's like, guess what? We're launching in weeks. Four weeks, six weeks, eight weeks. Right now we've got a foundation of a special which is X amount of dollars. And you're going to get visit number one. You're going to get any X rays and explanation of your results. Is that exactly what you did?

Yeah, I mean, we had a. We were scheduling, like I said, four months out from opening. People were like, is that your next available appointment? They're like, can I get a student? I'm like, no, that's. That's our first available time. They're like, oh, wow. You know, a few people actually, like, drove by because they're like, they essentially. And they're like, oh, I understand why that was your next opening. You're not even open yet. You know, we just were like, you know, we were just casual, like, hey, our next opening is July 10th or 11th. You know, when works best for you. And you know, it's February.

And what about in those early days? Because I know the question a lot of people are going to have on their mind, was it just you and me again? Was it just you and your wife doing that? Or did you have people that were already working for you? How did you do that in terms of bandwidth and team?

Yeah, no, it was just us. I mean, like I said, Lily had graduated the week, you know, prior, walked across the stage, hadn't even gotten my official license. You know, at that, at that point that we started, you know, joining the community events, meeting people, coffee shops, I didn't have enough money to buy coffee every time. I don't even really drink coffee. But I just, you know, you know, that's just where we. Those are Those are free spots. I meet a network and meet people and you know, tried to provide value and get to know people and a lot of those, you know, relationships we still have to this day. A lot of it was us really trying, you know, provide value to them. You know, there wasn't, we tried to go in and say, tell me about your business, ask them about what, what they have, how can we help them, what can we learn? And it was very service oriented, you know, from the beginning.

Yeah, nice. I love it. And so what happens next? You guys obviously start blowing up. Year one. I mean, I'll let you tell a story, but I'm pretty sure you guys crack seven figures in collections. Year two, you're doing multi seven figures. What happens next in the journey now applying those principles.

Yeah, I mean, so yeah, a couple weeks out we're like, you know, we had about 300 appointments scheduled at that point. We're like, all right, we need some help, you know, so we, we hired two part time people and they both started with us right from the beginning. And by our second month in practice we were at 400 a week.

And was that, was that just you adjusting or did you have associated that point already? How did that happen?

Just me? Just me? Yeah, me and my wife and then a couple part team members. So that, so we were at 400 a week, you know, and I'm, I'm sleeping on the tables, you know, I'm trying to, you know, see everybody. And then after shift I'm trying to figure out, you know, the marketing and I'm doing the marking all the X rays and building the, and doing the notes and you know, I'm still, you know, I actually set my schedule up at that point because we found these different consisting farmers markets, you know, I'm going to this farmer's market that, that we pay $5 to have a booth with. You know, I would do that, you know, still every Saturday I close my clinic down from noon to 3 so I can still do health talks over lunch. And so I was usually doing a health talk in the morning, 7 to 8am Go do a shift, you know, then have another health talk over lunch. And so in between all those I'm, I'm scheduling them. I'm, you know, I'm doing, you know, doing everything. My wife obviously as well and we had our first son while I was in congratulations school. So he was about a year, you know, old at the time. And so yeah, so yeah, we did over 1.2 million our first year in practice. And then we did 2 million second year in practice and then third year in practice. Covid.

And so that's when I was, you know, I was like, okay, I had some more time. I was been going, going, going, you know, point. I had a couple associates and was really trying to figure out what do I do next? How do I get to the next level. And so that's when I joined Remarkable Practice because I knew there was something that I need to get to the, to the next level. Started coaching with Dr. Peace, learned about the chiropractic operating system and help implement that into my business. And we added some additional protocols in our clinic to really give because we were out of space. We were like I said, we were 1800 square feet. And so then the next year, yeah, we went the year after Covid 2021, we went to five and a half million in 1800 square feet.

So you guys. See you guys next. Okay, so I love what I'm hearing here. First of all, I'm just going to trace the lessons learned along this story. Ready? So we did a similar thing. You got cracked 1.2 million in one year. We cracked our first million in about 18 months to 24 months. Right. So slightly behind. But the biggest thing that I got out of what you just said is we were doing so many things similar. So I remember those days. I would do a talk in the morning, then I'll adjust in the morning after that. Then I'd have a talk at lunchtime, and then I would have a break for an hour. And then I would go and adjust again the afternoon shift. And I remember, you know, there were certain days where I'll be speaking three times. It was like I would have a morning speak, a speaking gig, then I'll go and adjust. I would have a lunchtime speaking gig, I would go on adjust and into a dinner workshop. So I remember my diaries at the time would have, you know, speaking gigs. I want to get this many new ways. At the first one, this many. The second one, this many. The third one, what I'm hearing you say is you guys just did more and more volume of these things, right? Which is why you exploded, you know, so strongly out of the gates and then you to the point, 800 square feet. And you guys are generating over $5 million annual revenue out of 800 square feet. Is that right?

Correct. Yeah.

All right, so I want you guys to hear what's possible. Okay, guys, 800 square feet, which roughly, if you're in Canada, if you're in Australia, it's up to 150, 160 square meters, $5 million in revenue out of 800 square feet. All right, so I absolutely love, love, love that. So talk to us then about the journey from 2 to 5 mil. So you said you brought in an operating system, which ultimately means that you had high levels of KPIs, accountability. Meeting structures started to take place probably to a high level. What else did you find on that journey with instrumental and just getting you to explode like that?

Yeah, I would say that big shift that you just, you just talked about, which I don't want to breeze by it too quickly, is the shift from systems to structure. And that's what, you know, I talk with a lot of doctors about, is that I think a lot of the organizations within our profession have great systems. You have day one processes, day two processes. You have how to answer the phone, how to do table talk. You have how to do your adjusting technique, you know, how to do billing, you know, lots of systems. And so we were really, really great with, with systems. And that's where I learned with a lot of these clinics that I went to is, you know, how to, how to go through a process, how to have documentation and, you know, processes in the office to have good, clean systems. But what I had no idea about until that third year practice, like I said, was structure and accountability and organizational charts and, you know, who's responsible for what. Because at that point, everything came back to me and taken, you know, if we didn't get something done, we didn't do something, or even if someone else was supposed to do it, ultimately the responsibility of the failure or success still came back on our shoulders and people weren't compensated or impacted. You know, no matter really what happened, you know, they were just, you know, they're doing a good job or they're being judged very subjectively, you know.

Yeah.

Overall. And so implementing structure and accountability and rhythms of meetings and KPIs and performance reviews, you know, has really helped us understand, you know, where we're at and what, what was possible. What we know, we thought we were starting to hit capacity at a million, and we realized there was way more way, way more capacity than we had once we had better rhythms and structure in place. And that was really simultaneously combined, you know, with really, really increasing the lifetime value, you know, of. Of my new space. And so, like I said, we didn't have any space, so I couldn't add anything physically into the office. We added some additional protocols that they could do from home, some supplements. And so Forth that allowed us to give them higher quality care, get them better results faster without it taking, you know, or utilizing any physical space, because we had nothing.

So when you guys were at your 1800 square meter space, were you doing primary adjustments only at that point?

Yep, exactly. That's all we did. Location. We never did anything in that location inside the space besides adjustments, exams and X rays.

Yeah, gotcha. I love it. So to make sure I got this right, and so people are hearing this, guys, exactly what Josiah is saying. As you start building out your team, your team members are not just expenses that you're adding to the P and L sheet. That's an expense that I need to run my practice. It's actually every single team member is a resource, and that means that they're an investment if you position them properly, if you train them properly, and then if you have them accountable to certain KPIs. So I think what I heard you say there, and correct me If I'm wrong, Dr. J, is that every single person in your team, they have certain KPIs. And it's their responsibility to make sure that we are hitting those KPIs. And if we hit those KPIs, then that's them contributing to the organization growing as a whole. And then there's obviously structure in place around bonusing and remuneration around that as well. Is that right?

Absolutely. Yeah. That was something that really realized that you need to have different people that are accountable for things that they actually have control of. You know, at first I thought, well, hey, these people need to vault, be accountable to that, because this is what I think their position is. But then when I realized some positions have more ability to impact certain KPIs and others, you know, we. That was definitely a learning process, you know, for us to really understand, you know, what positions impact. What KPIs should actually be a bonus down. Those KPIs really drive revenue, right? At the end of the day, you know, LUCRO stands for profit, right? Because the goal, you know, of a business, you know, enterprise value, you know, Dr. F.R. would want me to say that is the ultimate goal, you know, of a business. But, you know, on a consistent basis, you know, for most clinics, total profitability, not profit margin. You know, you much rather have 20% of a watermelon than 50% of grape. Total profit of the clinic is really the goal. And so how do you have KPIs that drive other people to take the similar actions? And really what we talk about with our team a lot Is having an owner's mindset, you know, how can we help them make the same decisions that we would take? And therefore, you know, how can we help them be incentivized to take those same decisions and have the same mindset? When they think about when they come at a crossroads and they do need to make a decision, if I got to do this or am I going to do that or what step am I going to take? If they can understand and have properly tied KPIs and performance reviews, then that's going to incentivize them to ideally take that decision, you know, more likely than not.

Yeah, I love that. And you know, I feel as though that is actually one of the fundamental keys to chiropractic scaling to the next level. I look at offices when they sell and very often offices sell for a percentage of like total revenue or sometimes they just close the door and don't sell for anything. Right. But you look at an office here in Australia, we see it commonly, you know, I might have an office doing half a million a year. The way they evaluate it, they go, well, there's a few methods, but 35, 40% of goodwill, whatever that is, 2 and the office might sell like 100k, 250k that. Right. And so you've got someone's life work there that's selling 200k. And you look at the real business world when businesses sell for multiples, right. Of revenue, when they sell for multiples of EBITDA and profit. And I feel as though the key to making that happen in chiropractic is to know, know your numbers. Because if you're an outside person looking in and you've got an office that you're evaluating that's doing 5 million, 6 million, 2 million, 3 million. But you know clearly what the profit margins are on that. There's systems and there's structure behind how that's done. There's stability around the team, but there's also somebody that can actually go in and run this thing and be drawing profit straight away. Suddenly that changes the game completely. Because you've got offices that are assets then because they're true businesses, they're not personality dependent, they're true businesses which have structure and therefore they have equity value. Suddenly you're selling offices for multi seven figures, if not more, depending on the size of the office.

Absolutely. That's a great, great concept, you know, that you just talked about is that multiplier is. Because it's not very, it's not transferable to a new to A new owner. If you don't have structure, if you don't have systems, if you don't have things in place, it can be a smooth handoff. You know, that's the, you know, the big thing in our profession. You know, very, A lot of chiropractic clinics are very personality driven on that individual doctor. You know, that individual doctor is not there, the clinic has to close, or even if you hire another doctor, you know, people only coming for a specific doctor's personality because they don't have the systems and structure and properly trained team members. So many things are falling on the doctor's shoulders. And so most clinic partners are, you know, if you say, hey, in your business right now, who's the head of sales, who's the head of marketing, who's the head of finance, who's the head of operations, who's the head of it, you know, who, who just makes sure that the office, you know, gets cleaned. It's like you could list off almost every major function within a business. And almost every chiropractor that I talk to raises their hand for nine out of ten of those things. If it's, if it's not them, then it's their spouse. So it's like, wow, then do you ever think that someone's going to want to buy this business? That is being that you're literally holding up, you know, on the weight of the world on your shoulders, like Alice, you know, it's like, yeah, yeah, there's no reason anyone want to buy that clinic.

Yeah, spot on the mic, man. You nailed it. And like I said, I think that's where for us to shift and change chiropractic. Because if you're, if you're suddenly exiting clinics for multiple seven figures and you know, some bigger practices, probably even eight figures, that's legacy changing stuff because that's, that's money that gets left in the profession that ultimately, you know, gives us more resources in the profession to actually develop ourselves further. So I love that. But come back to a second to the story. So that's at the end of the story. What happens next? You guys move into a dream space. You continue to grow and scale. Talk to us now about more recent times. What's been happening?

Yeah, so obviously we grew out of that space where, you know, got plateaued the next year after that because we just couldn't get any bigger and we're able to found a new space. We, we wanted to build a spot originally, but then we realized the timeline on they were like, I just can't wait. And I ended up just driving around my office and found some office buildings that I was like, oh, this, that looks like a good building. I sent it to my, my real estate agent. Hey, call these business building owners up and ask them how much they want for the buildings. And literally that's what happened. That's how the space that I'm in right now literally called. The owner said, hey, how much do you want for your building? I got a guy that wants to buy it. And so we ended up buying a spot just a few blocks from our current location. And yeah, last year we did just under 7 million in this in our one location here.

Yeah. That's so cool, man. I remember when you guys found that building and you were in the middle of planning and renovating it and getting plans organized. And so when you moved into that space, suddenly had more space. So you're able to add more services and just continue the growth and trajectory upwards.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Yep. Love it.

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So here's the question that everyone has on their mind. So you could be listening to this, guys, you're just about to launch a practice or maybe you've launched office. Now I know we get a lot of people that are in scale season. They've got multiple associates listening to this. So on that journey of 0 to 7 million plus, and I know that's not the Plato point, you guys, you guys are continuing to grow. What are some biggest lessons learned, man? What if I was to say now, all right, three biggest lessons. Give me your three biggest lessons along that journey. What will they have to be? I know that you're a big numbers man. I know that you have calculations around everything, but if you get still it down now and say, all right, here are three lessons learned, I'd love to know what they are.

All right, well this is great. I actually have a whole masterclass I did on this topic. So I got the, I got three of my top three ready to go for you. Oh, one we already, one we already hit on, which is structure. I think structure is the number one missing piece in the entire chiropractic profession. I really feel that that is, you know, to take it, you know, from a chiropractic business as a hobby that's personality driven. You Know that doesn't run without you to a sustainable business that can be sold and, you know, transferred to another business owner or never sold. And you know, your business running without you and you being able to take vacation and grow without you. You know one of my favorite lines from Robert Kiyosaki, you know, author, rich dad, poor dad, he says, you can't leave your business for six months and not be better without you. You don't have a business, you just have a job. And that structure to me is the biggest gap for chiropractors to go from owning a job to owning a business and so establishing that structure. Because structure is the rhythms or consistency around what you do. And you can take the correct actions today, tomorrow, next week, next month, but are you going to do it the following month and the following month and the following month and year over year? That to me is what structure does, is it consistently gives you this feedback loop of what's working, what's not working, what are your strengths, weaknesses, opportunities and challenges. How are you continually evaluating what the number one thing is that you need to focus on. And so I actually found remarkable practice, you know, kind of backwards. I first discovered structure, I started studying other professions outside of chiropractic proctor. And I said, man, what's differentiating these other businesses that they, that they can scale their business like you? You know, I was, I thought when I first came out of school the pinnacle in our profession was a million dollar practice. You know, well, two years and I'm at 2 million and I look around, I couldn't find, you know, many people to model after. How do I want to, I want to keep growing. But I couldn't find many chiropractors to learn from that were ahead of me at that point. And so that's when I studied outside of our industries. And that's what I realize is they have frameworks of consistent feedback based on KPIs and rhythms of what's working, what's not working. In the tech industry, they call it, you know, agile methodology. And they work in what's called two week sprints where every two weeks are constantly evaluating what's working, what's not working. And they're literally, you know, willing to alter their entire business model every two weeks, if that's what the data says is the number one most important thing that they need to focus on the next two weeks and they'll give it a shot and they're able to, it's an alter and move steps way, way faster. And so oftentimes I talk to chiropractors that have been going in the wrong direction, but they don't know what direction they're going for years before they finally realize it. Make a pivot and at that point anything like a GPS you've drive, driven how far off the wrong direction before you pivot, you're going to take a lot of time to even get back to where you started. So that's my first one. Structure.

Gotcha. And when you, and when you say structure, just so it's clear for everyone, what you're talking about here is that you have team members that have individual KPIs and scorecards and they're accountable for different areas of the business and they report back to somebody. Is that what you mean?

Exactly. You got it.

Cool.

Feedback. So, you know, these should happen daily huddles, weekly meetings, monthly meeting to review as a, it's an extended weekly meeting, quarterly meetings to evaluate your strengths, weaknesses, opportunities and challenges. And like I said, the proper KPIs for each of the different positions within your organization and also for the organization as a whole of what's working, what's not working. And then that feedback loop always gives you the number one focus. That's what I feel. As a CEO or as a business owner, the number one job of the CEO should be identifying what is that number one thing that takes the least amount of work, that's gonna have the greatest impact on the business. And they need to make sure that the company is always running in that direction. Like I said, you, you take one wrong turn in your GPS in your car, I mean, it's correcting you within seconds, you know, and we need the similar type of continual feedback loop to our business. When we're on course or off, we're on track or off track. You know, even if you're always on track with your gps, I'm still looking at it every few seconds, making sure I'm on track, you know, that I'm still heading in the right direction. It might even just update and say, hey, we found a better route for you. You want to take the better route. It's like, heck, yeah, you know, save two minutes on my commute, you know, so that's what structure is to me.

And before you get into number two, I just want to share something with you here. I'm sure you'll find this useful as well. Last year I was at a mastermind. It was a two day high level mastermind event. So it was seven figure entrepreneurs breaking through to eight figures, right? And it was a 25,000 volt two day mastermind event. And the first two things that that event started with that probably spent 50% of the time on was dashboard of understanding your statistics. And then number two, this process called sequencing and sequencing, basically what you've just described there. Which means in your business there's a million things that you can be doing right now to grow it or maybe even to not grow it. And that doesn't mean you should be doing them. All the true entrepreneurs who scale, they're the ones who learn how to sequence in the right order so they make decisions. We're going to focus on this first, then we're going to focus on this next and we're going to focus on this third. And the only way that you can make those decisions is if you have complete full visibility into your statistics, into your metrics, into your data, what's actually going on your business. Because that drives your decision making, that drives the sequence of what action steps you take. Is that what you've experienced?

Got it. Yeah. I mean, that's exactly right. It's just continual loop of what's working, what's not working, and always refining the focus about where you should put your attention and your team's attention.

Yep, yep, I love it. All right, that's number one, man, number one. Lesson learned, structure. All right, number two, what do we got?

Yeah. Okay, so number two is team, number two is team. And you know, you got on it a little bit earlier, Bobby, but really the initial thought on team is hey, they cost a lot of money. It's my number one expense on my PNL every single month. It's my payroll. You know, team members can have lots of headaches, they can be frustrating. They're not black and white. You know, there's a lot of gray with people. And that's all true. But the really the overall mindset around team needs to shift because team members need to be viewed as assets. I mentioned, you know, Robert Kiyosaki earlier and if you read anything about his, he talks a lot about, you know, assets versus liabilities. And what the rich people do is they buy assets. What poor people do is they keep continue to buy liabilities. And so what great clinics do is they continually invest in team members. And I like to say you either need more team members or you need better team members. And so you need to always be reinvesting into your training process to take your current team members to the next level. And you always need to be on the lookout for a players. The difference in an A player, C player is absolutely massive, but the cost might not be that big a difference. You know, for example, you can hire an a player for $20 an hour or you know, let's just say a c player costs $16 an hour. So let's just say the difference between an A and a C player is $4 per hour over the course of the year, about $8,000. Now what's the lifetime value of a patient in your clinic? You know, let's say on the low end it's $2,000, you know, so this eight and a player only needs to impact four more people signing up or staying under air, you know, to be worth it. You know, in a business, the way that we operate with how high touch we are at the front desk, on the phone, reoccurring visits into your clinic on a consistent basis, that's not difficult at all. So the value of an A player is always going to be way higher than they cost. And so this is just a framework or a frame of mind that people really need to have first and foremost. And then you can go, really go into many levels, you know, with team as a whole. And so that's, that's the biggest thing I talk about is just the value of team. You know, we're in a service based, hands on, in person profession, okay. And so if you really distill that down, there's very few other business models that are anywhere close to us. Most of them, like you said, you're buying a product, whether it be food, whether it be something that, a package that goes in a bag, you know, that gets shipped in the mail. No matter how good the service is, no matter how good the waiter is, no matter how good the customer service rep is, you're going to grade the quality of the food, you're going to grade the quality of the widget, of the product, of the, of the, of the clothes that you get, the cup that you get, whatever the products are. So the product value, you know, is way more important. Where, yeah, we have what I know every chiropractor would consider and be on the same page, the greatest health care product in the world, right? So there's no doubt about the quality of our product, right. We have the greatest health care product in the world, right. And so, but it's very hands on, right? So how you interact with somebody, you know, on a visit to visit basis, you're only as good as your last adjustment, you're only as good as your last interaction with that patient, whether it be a front desk Person not smiling at the front desk or not giving you a firm handshake or any little thing. The value, like I said, brick and mortar service based, hands on profession. The value of team members to our business model of chiropractic is dramatically greater than the value of employees to almost every other business model. And so once you really wrap your head around that, realize if Chick Fil A and Target, you know, I don't know what you got in Australia and stuff like that for high, you know, for a little bit higher level competition for hiring people. If they're paying more than you're paying, then don't be surprised that you're not getting great candidates to apply, hire or stay on your team. And so that's, that's the big thing. You got to find those, those places that are hiring in your. And you have to be a higher level because the quality that you need and the value of a team member in our style of business is greater than all those other businesses. So if they're willing to pay that, you need to be willing to pay more.

Yeah, yeah. I love that you brought that up because you talked there about the experience. And even though we've got the healthcare product in the world, we all know that packaging and framing is key to things. So you look at a company that does this amazingly, Apple, everyone knows that cool Apple makes great products. But the way they package and frame the products, like when you purchase the product, that's half the experience, right? The package is going to come in the, the feel of it, the texture of it. So the way that something is packaged and framed and presented makes an impact in the perceived value of that product. Let me give you an example of this. Cigarettes here in Australia, I believe they're still doing this. They went through this period, it was about four or five years ago, where they had to remove all labeling on the cigarette. The only thing that could be in a cigarette packet was a photo of what are the consequences of smoking cigarettes? Because it was an initiative to drive down the amount of people that were smoking cigarettes. Because that shows you that packaging is important compared to back in the day where cigarettes used to be packaged. You know, Marlboroughs would have this cool red and white to them. They look sweet. Right. Part of the factor of smoking was the cool factor of holding the actual, the carton itself. So we have a great product, but if it's not delivered, if it's not packaged properly communicated well, if the experience isn't continually done well, that's going to impact your experience. That's Going to impact your ability to grow the office. Correct?

Exactly.

Yep. Love it. I also love the fact that, you know, human resources, I look at humans as resources, which means every single human has a nervous system. They have a brain. And a nervous system means, guys, that you can adapt that person, you can expand that person, you can evolve that person through training, through influence. So you've got a version of somebody who maybe has a lot of potential, but you can actually take them higher levels of potential by training and investing into them.

Absolutely.

Yeah. Cool. So lesson number two, my friend, is the importance of team. Getting the right people on the team, investing in them, training in them, leveling them up when it comes to skill sets, making sure they're continuing to buy into the vision, stay motivated and love with exactly what you guys do inside the office. Is that right?

You got it. Yeah. We have what we call an employee maturity model. Every team member, when they first come in, we have a whole vision track laid out for them of here's where you first start. These are your initial know responsibilities that you need to train on and test out of and prove proficiency in and KPIs that are going to be tracked, you know, in that initial role. You know, once you prove proficiency and hit certain benchmarks, you know, from time with the clinic as well as, you know, certain levels with those KPIs then and performance reviews with which is alignment with our core values, then you can be promoted to the next tier within that role. That next tier has higher level KPIs that they need to hit and they have new areas that they're going to train on, test out of and be responsible for in the clinic. And then once they have certain benchmarks and performance reviews and they go to the next level. So every physician within our clinic has four levels that they can advance through which increase their base pay as well as increased in commission opportunities and growth within our organization. Because you need your clinic to be an opportunity vehicle for everyone that comes and works for your clinic. So you have your vision, what you want your business to provide for you. And so you need to have very clear articulation of what the business provides for your employees as well.

So get this. I, I heard this actually from one of my mentors and I think it's absolutely genius that if you want to hang on to A players long term and continue to make sure the A players, you need to have a vision that's big enough and grand enough that within your vision you can contain the vision of all your team members. Because just like how you have your own individual desires or things that you want in your life that are aligned to your core values. Like if I asked you now, there'd be certain desires that you'd have in your life. You know, whether that's around the food that you're eating, the clothes that you're wearing, the vacations that you're having, the house that you're living in, the cars you're driving. Everyone's a bit different. It will represent your core values. Guess what? Every single one of your team members has their own unique sort of desires and wants and needs. So if you can, through your vision and through the vehicle of business, make the vision so big and the vehicle is so strong that within that it can contain the vision of all individual team members, then you'll get people that will never leave you. And I love that you just brought that up because you have a progression plan. So it's not like, oh, you're a check in CA and you make $18 an hour and you'll only ever make $18 an hour. But we expect you right now to be serving 800 people a week and soon we're going to expect you to be serving a thousand a week. But you'll get your same $18 an hour. That's not motivating. Inspiring for anyone and expecting someone to rock up and even if they are a player, continue to stay inspired. If you have that kind of model, I think it's going to be very hard pressed. So I love how progression plans and people can actually get all their desires met within your business. And I love that you have your employee maturation model where you look at like, all right, I'm sure you have a sheet of paper where you work out. What are they goals? Are there immediate goals? What are their more immediate to kind of, sorry, medium to long term life goals. And if you consider the of your practice, help them see how they can achieve all their goals and they're going to stick with you for years.

Yeah, you're exactly right. They got to achieve their goals and they got to have their vision, their purpose. How can we help them achieve those goals utilizing our company as the vehicle to accomplish that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Love it. That's awesome. All right, man. So lesson number two is team. The importance of team nurturing and, and pouring into them. And I love that you guys have a model they can progress with inside of your business. Number three, what's the third thing? Third is lesson learned.

Yeah. So I know we talked a little bit about KPIs already as a Part of structure. But I really, like I said structure to me is more of the meeting rhythms and loop and accountability is really the structural piece. But inside of that is the third piece, which is the data. Data is a number three. And that is huge because, and it's very difficult in our profession because of our health records programs. You know, in software that we have in our, in our profession sometimes that can be very difficult to get the data to actually know what to do. Lots of chiropractors, right, very hands on type of people that make a lot of decisions with their gut. And so data gives us the black and white. What's working, what's not working. I like to segment data really into three different categories of where you get your data from. The first category that most people think of is what I was just alluding to is your EHR data. And that's where you're going to get your show up rates, sign up rates. You know, a lot of the main KPIs that people think of when they think of KPIs is you're going to get most of that from your ehr, right? Then you have what I consider marketing data. And marketing data, you know, is you might have a CRM. Very popular one in our profession is go high level, you know, how much you're spending on marketing, how many leads you have, what's your customer acquisition cost, you know, marketing data. And then the third one, which I think is by far the most underutilized, but the most important data piece is financial data. And so financial data is, you know, I think a missing data piece in our profession because most people utilize a bookkeeper really for the only purpose of filing taxes. Bookkeeping is typically done months behind, even if it's done on a monthly basis. Doctors, I talk to you that get the piano say, well, what am I looking at? What's the right margin? What's the right percentage? Should I spend more on team, less on marketing? My overhead, where it should be. And so when I study those other professions like I talked about earlier, one of the key fundamental things that I found that they did was they utilized their financial data as the very first thing they looked at. They said, what was our revenue, what was our profit, what was our margin? How much did we spend on team? How much did we spend on marketing? And that was their first lens that they looked at before they dove deeper into EHR data or before they dove deeper into marketing data or into team member data. Right? The first thing you do is you look at the overall buckets of revenue, profitability. How much did you spend on your team? Did you spend on marketing? How much did you spend on over at these big buckets? Yeah. And so that was fundamental understanding, you know, and growth process was. I realized, okay, I need to know what is the right percentage of my revenue that should be allocated to team members, to marketing, to overhead. And then if it's too high or too low, then I can drill down deeper in and figure out ROI and show up rates and lifetime value and all these other fundamental KPIs. But you got to go through this first overall framework of financial data. And so that's really, like I said, those are three pieces. EHR data, marketing data, financial data, but it really starts with financial data. And that's going to help you make your decision. Do I need to hire more team members? Am I, do I have, am I overstaffed? I'm not getting the efficiency or of my team members. That's where one of my most important stats that I recommend doctors track, what's called percentage of schedule filled. And that's, you know, is kind of a subset of that to understand how much of your schedule is being filled. Do I need more team members? Do I need to, you know, increase spend on marketing? You know, do I need to hire? Am I bottlenecked with adjustments or am I bottlenecked, you know, with other appointment types that I have? And so, and just starting with the financial data and filtering down is massively important.

So I've got two questions on you for you that I know that docs are going to ask on. This one is probably a pretty simple one, maybe a bit of easy one to answer. How often are you checking that data inside of your business? Are you checking that on a weekly cadence? You're checking it on a monthly cadence? Are you doing elements of both? How often are you checking the data? What do you recommend?

Absolutely. So the financial data piece is a monthly basis, monthly with the P and L looking at overall revenues and overall profitability, percentage of spend on team marketing overhead, those major areas, overall spend. And then every single week we're drilling down into those subsections of the data. The smaller, you know, data pieces, the KPIs that are then obviously driving up. So every month it's kind of a big vision over, okay, what do we need to focus on the next month? Okay. Then drill down and then in those meetings, part of the structure. Right. Then you're drilling down into, okay, what specific steps do we need to take to improve show up rate? What specific steps do you take to improve sign up rate or retention rates or what turn rate or any of those KPIs that you were talking about.

Yeah, I love that. And then question number two, which goes hand in hand with that is I know a lot of docs have questions around marketing. Some people are like, well, okay, maybe I do referral only. Marketing, you're missing the boat there, buddy. If you can compound your referral marketing, if you actually invest in marketing as well. I know that both of our practices, we invest pretty heavily into marketing. So you guys have a tool, I believe, that shows us like, all right, well, here's how much you should invest in marketing. Here's how much you should invest, you know, in team. Is that right? That's my question. Do you have a tool that guides us about like, what are the different levels that you should be investing in?

Exactly. We created for the chiropractic profession, we call the perfect P and L. So that really gives you a guideline based on your monthly income or your clinic, how much should you be allocating to each of those areas? And then to drill down to the next level, the most basic equation, Bobby, that everyone should be able to calculate immediately right after I say this, that, you know, if you don't know know your this, then we got other problems. And Luca or Marco practice, we can help you with these types of things. But the biggest, most fundamental thing from a marketing perspective is, you know, what is your break even ROI that you need. And the easiest way to calculate is just $100 divided by your profit margin. So profit margin is 40%. 100 divided by 42.5, 33% profit margin. 100 divided by 33 is 3. What would you say, Bobby, of the clinics or doctors that you talk to, what would you say do you feel like is the average profit margin?

I would say that most of them don't even know. That's the first thing. Ones that we work with know, but in the beginning when they come to us, they don't even know. So they're like, oh, profit margin. I would say probably the, in the beginning, before they clean things up, it'll be somewhere between 10 to 20, maybe 25%.

Yeah, yeah. So let's just say it's on the low end, 10%. You know, I think that is pretty low. I don't, we don't see a lot of clinics that low, but let's just say it is. 100 divided by 10 would be 1025. You said, you know, 125 is 4, you know, so that's your, that's your minimum that you need to break even from a marketing standpoint. So if you have a 25% profit margin, you need a 4x. You spend $1,000 on marketing, you need to generate $4,000.

Yeah.

In revenue to be a break. To be a break even point in that. And you know, I know we've had these conversations. Here's the crazy thing. If you understand your cost per lead, a lot of doctors are charging for the initial consultation, oftentimes more than the cost per lead. And so that's something that, you know, you can have a flywheel from a marketing perspective. I know me and you nerd out about this type of stuff. You know, you know, let's just say your, you know, cost, you know, per, you know, day one, you know, appointment scheduled is $50 and you charge $60, you know, for initial consultation, you know, whatever your special is, you know, then you're already making money on the front end, but, you know, then it's in the cost of acquiring that person. So. Yeah, yeah. But at the Most fundamental level, 100 divided by your profit margin, you got to know that if you don't know your profit margin, like I said, Lucro can help you with that. You know, that's. But that's, you got to know that that's the most fundamental, fundamental stat there is.

Yeah, I love that. And if you're hearing what we're talking about now and you're like, head is spinning, guys. It means you got to get in touch with Lucro because you need to know this stuff. This is how you grow your business. What your size is alluding to there is called a CAC payback period. Right. There's you've got or a new patient acquisition payback period. How much does it cost you to get somebody? If it costs you $50 to get somebody and you're charging 70 bucks a neutral console, that means your payback period is one day. So you're in negative cash flow for one day by the time that person comes in. Or if you collect the money at the screening, you're not in negative cash flow at all, which means you made the money back on the person show at the screening. And there's a rule in business that if you can get your CAC payback period under 10 days, you should be doubling your marketing budget until that breaks. So it shows you the scope of what's, of what's possible for a marketing front. I know that you guys recommend, you have a range of recommendation from marketing. I Think it's from like 8 up to 12, 13% that you spend on marketing. Is that right, Josiah?

Yeah, we recommend even up to 20% once you get really higher up in the hundred of thousand per month.

Yeah. Wow. And is that, just to clarify, is that I should be spending what, whatever percent. And I know you guys are going to give a tool anyone who wants this, so you guys can get this from Josiah, but is that 20% of my goal revenue or is that 20% of my current revenue or 10% of my goal revenue or 10% of my current revenue?

Yeah, so that's a great question. You know, if you're looking to grow, you want to do it of your goal. If you're looking to get to the next level, you really want to do it of your. Of your goal. You know, if you're. If you're just doing it of your current level, you know, that's going to help you stay at your current level. So that's a great way. That's a great, great tweak. That. Great add in, for sure.

Yeah. Yep. I love that because that's a mindset thing about if you want to grow. Guys, make of the goal revenue. I used to sit there, go, oh, we're doing really well. 10, 12, 13% of our current revenue. And I was like, oh, man, make it on your goal revenue. That's aggressive growth. Put them to ChatGPT and look at what ChatGPT, since ChatGPT will give you some good advice, you know what to ask it. And I remember I asked it that, and it was like, wow, that's really aggressive growth standard. That's fantastic. That's exactly what you should be doing to grow and expand your business. Right. So I love it. All right, my man. I know you and I could look for hours and we do. We catch up every other week. Any final thoughts? Someone's listening to this, right? I. I want to go to my practice. Any final thoughts, man? What. What could you. What could you send my way?

Yeah, I mean, we've been trying to create lots of resources around everything that I talked about. You know, collaborating with the remarkable practice and some other great organizations in the profession. If you just go to morelucro.com, we have a link to what we call the vault. And so I've just been very transparent about all the different things that we've done to scale our clinic to $7 million a year and all the different ways that you need to evaluate. But really, at the fundamental core, like I said, you have Structural rhythms. You need to have the proper mindset around team and you need to arrive the right feedback loop of the data that gives you the insights of what specific actions that you should take. Once you have those actions again, goes back to structure. And then you have this rhythm of continually taking those actions. And then you have the team members to help you take those actions. And there's just this continual flywheel, like I said, of structural rhythms, the proper data and the team members to implement the actions. And that to me, that's what scaling is. It's just this continual feedback loop of what's working, what's not working. Investing the time into the proper things and you're just going to keep growing. And so many people that I feel that hit bottlenecks or they're frustrated with where they're at, they want to get to the next level. They don't have those core fundamentals of a successful business in place.

Yep, spot on. And talk to us. So Lucro will do that for us. It'll help us with understanding our stats. Who should reach out to Luca? Who should reach out to you guys?

You don't want to be cliche and just say everyone, but let me just walk through, you know, the value at each of those stages. So let's say you're in the, in the launch stage and you're about to open up your clinic. You know, immediately after you open. Funds are tight. You need to have them and make the best financial decisions possible every single month of where you should allocate your resources to get to the next level and scale and not hit bottlenecks. Doctors right out of the gate, first years in practice, huge value. Right? Right. Then you're jumping in the next stage where you're, you're building and you're trying to get to the next level. You're trying to get it, trying to get an associate. You need feedback, you know, on what team members are most important. How should you invest most effectively into your marketing? You're starting to implement some structural processes. Right. Then you're gonna, then you want to start scale and you're bringing on more team members. Right. And you have an associate and you're investing more and you're getting to the next level and you're going over a million dollar, you know, clinic, two million dollar clinic, and you're trying to get to the next level. Even more important for you to be able to run your clinic without you. You want your business to be operating and growing and scaling, whether you're in the office or sitting on a beach, being able to look at that data and have team members start taking responsibility and accountability for actions, you know, or if you want to exit your clinic, you know, you want to get top dollar for the valuation of your clinic. And a huge part of that is having clean financial data of what's working, what's not working, implementing processes and structural rhythms where the clinic isn't reliant on you. And so with Lucro, we do your bookkeeping. You have a dedicated team member every single week that does your books, and then every month you have a report that says, hey, based on your number, these are chiropractic specific action steps that you should take to get to the next level. You know, from me individually growing my clinic to 7 million, my partner Adam, who was a CFO for a billion dollar company, we give you key insights to then get to the next level. And then we collaborate with a remarkable practice and other great organizations in our profession to say, okay, what do I do if I need to focus more on my team, I need to reduce overheads, I need to invest more in marketing. What are the exact action steps that should be taken to get to that next level? And so what really gets me excited about Lucre overall is that we're compiling what are the industry insights for the entire chiropractic profession. There's no other organization that's going to have the data insights what we do of how clinics are being ran. Anything else is being submitted subjectively by a doctor on a survey. This is the black and white data in the profession of what organizations are being used, what marketing companies, what coaching groups, what business model is the best way to be operated and how do you do that? What are the right margins? How much do you spend on all the different areas of your practice? We have all that data for the profession. So that's really my ultimate goal for Lucra is to advance the profession. Because I always tell people it's Jesus and chiropractors. Top people that are called miracle workers in the history of the world is Jesus and chiropractors. There's nobody else that's more consistently called a chiropractor. They called a miracle worker then a chiropractor in any community around the world, right? I mean, I was just talking to a person who calls, literally calls their chiropractor Dr. Magic. That's literally what they rename their chiropractor is Dr. Magic. Because of, you know, what they do just doesn't seem possible. There's nobody else that, you know, people talk about Any other profession. The way they talk about chiropractic profession. So if that is really true, which I believe it Bobby does, most chiropractors listening, you know, we have the greatest healthcare product in the world, then the key separating fact, if we have the greatest product, then how do we run the best business to get that product and have a bigger impact on our community, on our countries, on our world? And so that's really Luc, you know, vision and mission is to make that impact and you know, working with a remarkable practice to create bigger impact, you know, for the entire world through chiropractic.

Yep.

I love it bro.

And I love that you guys, you look at data, you put, well, we call it data in Australia. So, you know, data, you look at the data, all right, and you put it together and you send a monthly report to the office so the office then can make more intelligent decisions and action steps moving forward. And then you can talk to your coaches, your mastermind groups in the back of that. Like that's absolutely golden. So I love it. So if you guys are going to leave all the details in the show notes, guys, or reach out to Dr. Josiah directly, was it more lucro.com.

You got it.

Nice and easy.

Means profit, more profit. That's what you, that's what you want, that's what we help you with. Thanks for having me on, Bobby.

I love it. Thanks for being on, bro. It is awesome. Guys. If you have any questions from today, you just reach out to myself or Dr. Josiah or I heard an add in on his socials. Right? So Josiah Dot Fitzsimmonstram, you find him on Instagram or you find him on social as well?

Josiah, you got it. Yep. Cool.

Reach out direct guys have a conversation. But I know Lucra will be an absolute game changer. Thank you so much, man. I learned a ton. I know that everyone has learned a ton and guys shows you what's possible. $7 million a year and on the pathway to an eight figure practice. So get it done.

Thanks for listening to this episode of Build you'd remarkable practice podcast. Remember, what the world needs now is chiropractic. And what chiropractic needs now is more successful chiropractors. If you like the podcast, please subscribe, share with your friends and leave us a review. And if you'd like to connect with with us personally, please click the links in the show notes to schedule a call.