303 - Why Chiropractic Patients Buy Outcomes, Not Adjustments

No one cares about your care. No one cares about chiropractic until they care about chiropractic. And the only way you get them to care about chiropractic is when they see that chiropractic is the way for them to get what they want, which is the outcome.

Hello and welcome to the Remarkable CEO Podcast, a show dedicated to chiropractors who want to transform their job into a business so that they can have a remarkable practice as part of a remarkable life, not instead of one. With your hosts, Dr. Pete Camiolo and Dr. Steven Fransen.

Welcome to another episode of the remarkable CEO podcast, Chiropractic's number one business podcast. I'm Dr. Pete Camiolo.

And I'm Dr. Steven Fransen.

And we're coming in hot. You. We are in the thick of it, Dr. Stephen. We are getting ready for our upcoming immersions. We got the conversion retention immersions here coming up. We have been just head down, just how do we continue to move the needle when it comes to helping more people get chiropractic? Not only starting chiropractic, but staying under chiropractic. We're going to touch on that today. We are in the thick of our quarterly board meeting right now. You're, you're finding us in the middle of a two day, quarterly, what we call our pulse meeting. And we're, we're in the thick of that. And you know, Doc Steven, I'm coming in hot too. I was able to host a master class Last Night with Dr. Miles Bodzin and that was awesome. And it's just awesome to have amazing success partners and folks we get to work with. And, and we specifically were, we were hosting a class on the conversion formula. And that was awesome. I loved it. I got some great feedback already in just less than 24 hours. And I think that's gonna, I'm inspired coming into our podcast today because I know that we're gonna be talking about some conversion related things, which is awesome. But you've been up to some things. What have you been up to these last couple of weeks?

Coming in hot.

So yeah, I was literally coming in hot. Physically hot. Who needs a sauna when you're in Mexico City, man? Let me tell you what. So I got had the privilege to speak at the Berkshire event in Mexico City. Hadn't been, haven't spoken in, in Mexico since like eight years out and then ten years before that. So I had an opportunity to speak at the Berkshire event. I was there. Dr. Lona spoke, Coach Lona and Dr. Sebastian, Coach Sebastian spoke as well. We even brought Adam with us. Right. So we had, we had had a great presence at the Berkshire event, which was wonderful. You know, 10 years ago, the first time I spoke in Mexico City, I'll be honest with you, it was just a bit of, bit of a ragtag fugitive fleet of chiropractors down there. It was a bit of the Wild west. And now just seeing just the evolution, the maturation of chiropractic and really seeing the organization, seeing some leadership rise up, seeing generational chiropractors and there students on the edge of their seat. Hundreds of chiropractors, not just from Mexico, but all around Central America, South America, reconnected with some great old friends while we were there, which was just awesome, right? So I saw, saw Dr. David Serows there and Liam Schubel and it's just such a great pack. Danny Knowles is there, it's just a Dan Lyons, I mean just a whole pack of just, just old time friends in chiropractic, which was very, very cool. So that, that was enough to charge me up and charge my battery. But you know, if we're going to be in Mexico, Sebastian and I are going to head down there a couple of days early and get some waves too. So we got to surf Salinas, Selena Cruz and it was just fantastic. Seven of the best point, right hand point breaks in the world. And we just, it was all you could eat waves. They hadn't had waves for a year, they told us. And we roll into town and we got four perfect days of overhead surf, offshore winds. It's the water's 85, the air is 95. Take my money. It's like it was literally eat, sleep, surf and you know, you're the human solar panel down there, right? So, and just soaking in that heat and that energy and man, I rolled back into this week loaded for bear. Dr. Pete I knew we've, we've got a lot going on. It's a mastermind week at the quarterly Pulse meeting and as the Chief Energy Officer, man, my battery's on 10 and I'm ready to rock today.

Well, I'll tell you, you know, we felt it coming in just even our, our first half of our quarterly, we had, we had an awesome day. One part, one of a two part series, you know, really. And, and hopefully all of you as you're listening to Dr. Stephen are picking up a couple things. Number one is how important it is for you as a Chief Energy officer to be recharging your batteries. Number one, number Two, how important is to stay plugged into the chiropractic movement and be surrounded by your brothers and sisters. So if you haven't been to an event in a while, I'm going to tell you right now, do not miss if you're in North America. 6-6-7, the conversion retention Immersion. Get down to Orlando. Get into the right room, around the right people. Things, good things will happen, guaranteed. You are guaranteed to grow your business. Your business will have an inflection after every immersion. It happens every time. So 100%.

We'll put a link down below. Right now that we're saying that out loud, let's put a link down below, click the link, register your team, and we'd. Absolutely. And if you're a listener and it's the first time you've gone to an immersion, please come up and give us a hug. Yeah, like, that's so fun. I mean, somebody mentioned the podcast. Three different people at Berkshire. There's a bunch of speakers, Three different people that I don't even know just mentioned the podcast from the stage, Dr. Pete. So, you know, guys, never mind the people in the crowd, so please come up, give us a hug, introduce yourself. We want to meet you in person.

Yeah, that'd be, that'd be awesome. And then the third thing that you said was, you know, about our quarterly, you know, and, and that's such an important rhythm. And if you're not doing your board meetings and you haven't adopted that best practice yet, which we've, if you've listened to the podcast, we've shared about them. We've done podcast episodes on how to execute a remarkable quarterly board meeting. You know, I really want to encourage you to do that. You know, I don't know where you're at in terms of this year. We're recording this. We're in the second quarter of 2025, and, you know, it's a perfect time to, you know, check in with your team and, and reevaluate and reset and relaunch into the next quarter. You got to know where we're headed this year and what's our, what are our goals. And, you know, we talked about the base and the best case scenarios and where are we at in relationship to our goals, and this is the perfect time to do that. So we're doing that. You, you hopefully have done that. If you haven't, I want to encourage you to adopt that. So there's really three big things. Dr. Steven, you said, number one, you're, as a chief energy officer, you've got to keep your battery full. You can't give from an empty tank, right? You've gotta. You've gotta come from a place of fullness. And, you know, and so that. That's. We're accountable to that. Right? That's why we talk about. And some of the folks that Doc Steven recently listened to our Morning Rhythms rituals episode, we talked about our best practices. A lot of great feedback received from that as well. Like, wow, that was really great. Great to hear. Thanks for sharing. Some of those things really helped. It's all about energy, right? It's about stewardship. It's all about. Yeah. So it matters as a leader. Like, it comes from you. It comes through you. So you have to be a. You know, you have to be someone who can transfer that energy. And so being filled so you can fill. Right? And so what is it that fills you? And you. You had said on our last one of our last episodes how you didn't do it in the year before, and there was. There was price to pay as a result of that. And now it's like, no, I've got to get back to doing the things that fill me so that I can then fill others. And, and all of you are in a position of leadership. All of you are in a position of giving, loving and serving. Do it from a position of strength, number one. Number two, get into the right room. Surround yourself with the right people. Dr. Steven, I'm energized this week because it was a Mastermind week, and I am fired up because I love being in the Mastermind environment. I'm telling you right now, if you're listening to this and you're not plugged into a CEO Mastermind and you consider yourself an owner, what are you doing? Get into a CEO Mastermind right now. Like, this is the time. Like, what are you waiting for? If you want to see what a shift, a transformation in your personal life, personally and professionally and your business, get plugged into a CEO mastermind. Get into a cohort. We would be happy to host you. We. We lead those. Dr. Steven, you and I and some of our other coaches, you know, we. It is a transformation and transformative environment. And I'm getting messages every week from people from those encounters and those moments saying, man, this has been. This was incredible. I needed this today. I need this right now. And it's. It's a catalyst for where we're going next and ultimately. So please plug in and get to the live events. You. We've got. We've got Australia coming Up. We've got us coming up here in June and July, so please take advantage of those and we would love to see you there. Like you said, come on up and.

Give us a hug. That's exactly right. So I mean, getting plugged in, I love that you're double clicking on this because it is really important and I, as much as we're academics and we love to teach academics and we're going to do that today. Today we're going to be talking about how to establish a, an orientation around promoting and selling outcomes for people as opposed to trying to sell features with people and establishing that mindset and that lens. We're going to get into that today. So we promise we're going to hit, we're going to hit some content today, right? So we're going to, we're going to te. We're going to teach you the truth of what, what people really buy. They buy outcomes, they don't buy features. We're going to have that conversation today. But I think this preamble is like critically important because this is the stuff people come up and be like, man, I needed to hear that. It's like masterminds, like if you're not in a mastermind, what are you doing?

Right.

Like literally like I, and, and I'm also in an accountability group, right. So people are like, oh, you're an accountability group and oh, and, and I'm in a small group. Oh, and right. So I'm in my C12 group. That gets me outside of chiropractic and, and you know, looking at kingdom work and looking at it through that my business through a different lens for a different purpose. Right? A great business for a greater purpose. Right? So when, when people are like, wait a minute, you're in that group too. It's like, why? Because each one of them is different. Right. Like a mastermind group. What's the difference between an accountability group and a mastermind group? Right. So an accountability group is we're going to set goals for each quarter and each year as a group of like minded people who are on a similar trajectory, who you really respect and you want them to hold you accountable to doing the things you need to do to reach your goals, whatever those goals are. That's what an accountability group is. A mastermind group has a curriculum. We're working through a curriculum together and we're masterminding around specific topics. And that's a totally different environment. Right. So one is highly academic. Yesterday we're talking about RPE revenue per employee ratios and the impact of that, of the hiring rhythm or ltv CAC ratios when it comes to like return on investment on your, on your market. That's a, that's a Mastermind curriculum for CEOs, right? Versus talking about constructing a remarkable life and the seven categories of life and holding each other accountable to achieving your goals in each of those seven ca. That's my accountability group through uac. Totally different things, totally different environment. One, I'm a leader. One, I'm a consumer. Right? So by the way.

Right?

So. And when you listen to these guys, it's like I, I have a rule that I follow and that is on all seven cat. I subscribe to demartini's seven categories of life that to me orders my life the way I like it. And I have a very simple rule to follow. I have a proven program that I'm following and an expert that I'm paying to hold me accountable in every category of my life. Listen, a proven program that I'm following and an expert that I'm paying to hold me accountable to following it in every category of my life. And if I'm missing either one of those, a program or an expert, I get jumpy because I'm trying to optimize every category in my life. Time is not on our side, guys. I am in a hurry. I'm in a hurry to optimize every minute, every molecule of my life. And I. And I'm walking that out. I'm demonstrating the capacity to manage well the things I've been trusted with. That doesn't imply perfect, everyone. Dr. Pete and I will be the first ones to tell you we limp into the room today to have this conversation with you.

Right?

We're just trying to share with you the methodologies that we're using, we're employing in our lives. We're preaching what we're practicing on. These are best practices as of a CEO. Being a CEO is a full contact sport, guys. You better make sure you're ready for it.

So I, I want to make sure that people understand that being a part of a group isn't a feature.

You're a part of a group to drive an outcome. You talk about the seven categories of your life. What you're actually saying, Doc, is there are outcomes in seven areas of the way I've organized my life. There are outcomes that I desire in my life. And I. So I put myself in an environment and with a level of accountability where I'm investing to drive an outcome. A proven program that drives an outcome, an Expert that will help drive an outcome and so recognize that it's no different for your patients when they come in. I need a proven program. Oh, you've helped people with chronic low back pain before. You've helped people with infertility before. You've helped people with fill in the blank. We have a proven program that we help the sick recover. We help identify. We're incredible at identifying and detecting subluxation. We're incredible at correcting subluxation. We're incredible at helping you live a lifestyle that ultimately is going to help you stay ahead of the health challenges that many people are suffering with today. Because we know that chiropractic is a lifestyle success strategy for healthy human beings. We know that the patients that are in our practice and the families that are, they're actually healthier, preach safer than those that are not in our practice. And we have a proven program for that. That's what people are looking for. And oh, you are an expert. Your Doctors here, your CAs, they're experts in helping people achieve that outcome. The outcome that I desire. Oh, so I'm going to invest dollars into me and my family coming here because you have a proven program and you guys are experts. That's it. So. But it's driving an outcome. What is important to them. Right. That's what we have to get better at. Dr. Steven, helping the patient. Okay. Like you said. Well, Demartini maybe helped you discover what it was. Maybe before that you were like, I was kind of. I had an idea, but I wasn't sure I got clarity. What is it? Oh, and then I had to define what my outcomes were. When a patient comes in, same thing, they don't really know what they want. Maybe right away they think they know, but they're not a hundred percent sure. You help them discover what it is that they really want. And most people haven't done that. Most doctors, we just haven't done that for our patients. Those that have, it has happened to A lot of times it was people that came in and just kind of were already there and we, we were the beneficiaries of them doing that deep work. Otherwise we have to actually pull that from them. Says, what is it that, what does success look like for you? What are you trying to accomplish? What's your immediate goal? What is your short term? What is your long term? And everything that we build centers around what's important to them and the outcome that's important to them. And we show them that. So, doctor, I know we're going to unpack It. But I just wanted to make that.

Yeah, no, it's the perfect segue, you know? It's the perfect segue, right?

So.

Because we're talking about conversion retention. Why? Because we're getting ready for the conversion retention immersion, right? So, you know, at risk of sounding like a commercial, it's. Here's the commercial. It's the one time a year where we do the entire TRP system for you and your team, right? So we will train your entire team. It's day one, two, three, four, week one, two, three, four,. Month one, two, three, four thousand year one, two, three, four and beyond. What does it look like to be a patient in a remarkable practice?

Right.

What does it look like for a 44 year old, a family of four or a four year old? Do you know, do you have clarity?

Right?

Because retention is a reflection of your clarity, right? So does you and your, do you and your team know? Do you know month 1, 2, 3, 4 and year 1, 2, 34 as well as you know, day 1, 2, 3, 4 in your practice? Do you, right. Do you have a clear and defined system that's your process, right? So it is the one time a year where we train on the entire arc of the process. Two full days, head down, bum up, you go back on Monday, better. Period, Hard stop, right?

So you.

Do you give me your team for the weekend. Come on, surrender your team to our team and you go back Monday better. What's, what's the hesitation? What's the question? Oh, I've been there before. Really? That's like saying, oh, I've been to the batting cages before. Oh, I've been, I've been to the driving range before.

Oh, really?

I've been to the gym before. It's like, yeah, good for you. So now you know where it is. I'll see you there at five o'.

Clock.

Right. So ultimately, this is the behavior that drives the outcome you want if your outcome is a bigger impact than a bigger income? Well, this is the behavior. The behavior is you put your team on a jet, you fly to the weekend, you train all weekend, engaged, head down, bum up with our team. And it's a giant accelerator button. Okay? So that's the. The outcome is bigger impact and a bigger, bigger income. Hey, Remarkables. Dr. Steven Franzen here. Are you ready to take your practice systems to the next level? Grow your practice, increase your progress, profits. Would you like to have your team immersed in a high energy, inspiring environment where they're trained and skilled up in the complete TRP system? I've got great news. It's that time of year again. It's time for the remarkable conversion and retention immersion. It only happens one time a year in the US and once in Australia. June 6th and 7th in Orlando and June 27th and 28th in Sydney, Australia. In this comprehensive training on the complete remarkable practice building system, we cover everything. Day 1, 2, 3, 4, Week 1, 2, 3, 4. Month 1234. Year 1234 and beyond. Patient conversion and retention. We cover the entire system. What would it feel like to see more of your new patients eagerly starting care and then happily following your recommendations for care? They stay under care because they want chiropractic care. At this powerful and inspiring two day event, you and your team will discover exactly what is working today in the conversion process. New patients, starting care and staying under care. Building your practice volume and your revenue. Learn the most cutting edge communications that drive more conversions, Unbelievable retention and incredible referral. This is the best bang for your buck in training all year. Register your team@theremarkablepractice.com or find the link in the show notes below. Join us for a jam packed two full days of intensive training for chiropractic teams that want to grow their practice and increase their profit. June 6th and 7th in Orlando, Florida. And June 27th and 28th in beautiful Sydney, Australia.

So, Dr. Pete, this is the essence of today's message. When we go through process and procedures and we go through scripting, we're teaching everyone the same thing. We are not gatekeeping. There are no secrets kept. We don't hide any of the special stuff and the secret sauce and the, you know, there's plenty of nuance, but that nuance is the fruit of understanding concepts.

Yeah. Okay.

And the big ideas. The concept today is a concept conversation. Do you get the concept that people don't buy features, they buy outcomes? If you get that concept, you're going to deliver the process, procedures and scripting differently. Say yes, if you understand what I mean. This is like it's, it is literally a different person speaking. It's like you're, you're not going to emphasize the features of being a patient and all of the steps and all the things that they get to do, which they hear they have to do, right? All the time. Energy, focus and money, the effort, it sounds like a lot of stuff. They do not care. What they care about is the outcome. No one cares about your care. Trust me. There's no one in the marketplace shopping for I want the best adjustments in the world. I hope that you give me Exercises to do. Teach me about my bad habits. Tell me, please. I'm gonna get to go to all the workshops. I can eat. I want progress exams and progress reports. You actually are gonna do re X rays for me. How often will I get thermal scans? Right? So postural evaluations. Every 12 visits. I am in. Said no one ever.

Right.

Okay.

What you have to understand is what they want is outcomes. No one cares about your care. No one cares about chiropractic until they care about chiropractic. And the only way you get them to care about chiropractic is when they see that chiropractic is the way for them to get what they want, which is the outcome. Once people understand that, you have heard them, you understand what they want. In other words, solve my problem, reach my goal. I understand what you want to accomplish. Once they hear you, reiterate that back to them so that they know you get them and what they want. Now they're ready to hear how you're going to help them get what they want. But, Dr. Pete, we trip over ourselves. But talking about our features, and we talk about all of the elements of our care. We'll talk until we're blue in the face and teach people everything they never wanted to know about chiropractic. And we waste all of the opportunity. We should be speaking about the outcomes.

I mean, we could just stop right there, right? So enough said. All right, Go work on that. I have a couple thoughts, and I know we'll. We'll jam on this for a little bit. Here's a phrase that I want you guys to think about. And this is don't wait until it's too late. I want you to think about that. Don't wait until it's too late. See, a lot of times what we do is we think, well, I'm gonna meet them where they're at and we'll get them started. And then eventually we'll work. We'll work that stuff in Those. The outcomes and all this. And we're basically telling you, no, you can. You can have it all.

You.

You. You do it.

You do.

You can do it all if you do it the right way. We follow a very specific form, formula. And the formula, it's kind of like a recipe. And when you do the recipe the right way, it produces the best outcome of that meal, of that dish, of whatever it is that you're trying to create. And there's a very specific formula to this. But don't wait until it's too late. In other words, don't wait. And then they're gone. And then you lost them. And then you have to do it again. And we end up with this. We repeat. History tends to repeat itself, right? We. We tend to develop these bad habits and happens within. It could happen in your first month of opening a practice, and you never develop these good habits. Dr. Bodzin, we were talking last night on the masterclass. He says, man, Doc P, if I, if I heard what you just taught when I first started my practice, it would have saved me so much pain, heartache, and, and so much money and.

All, all the loss.

If I just knew what you were sharing now. And Dr. Stephen, that's what you're saying is, you know, if you understand this concept, if you understand this construct, that people do not buy the features. They don't. They buy outcomes. And if you could, everything would. Would center around that truth. I'll tell you something right now, and I leaned into this last night. We're going to lean into this in our immersions, but you got to get your day one right. When I say don't wait until it's too late, I'm also saying don't wait to day two to fix what's not going right on day one.

That's right.

And that's a big subluxation right there. And I'm just going to say we have not done a good enough job on day one to set up success for day two, let alone set up success for day three, four and beyond to even get to the first progress exam and report. Right. Like we have.

We should be a layup. Day two should be the layup. It should be a breakaway layup after just a powerful day one. Right?

It's exactly right. I was teaching day two, but I kind of had to go a little bit into day one just to pull day one into day two. I had to do one of these, like, pulled it over my shoulder because I'm like, I'm pulling this with. Into this visit. But let's remember, like, if I did my job here, if we do the right, the work there with problem goal, I'm setting myself up for success with path plan, But I have to make sure that that work is being done so people will start to understand the outcomes on day one. If you do it right, people are going to see, wow, you connected with me. I felt like, Dr. Stephen, you saw me. You heard me. You're the first doctor that I feel like really listened to me and understood what I'm saying. You're the first doctor that's really starting to make, help me make sense and connect the dots and put the pieces together. I've never, no one's ever really been able to do that for me. I'm, I've just been kind of referred here and there and everywhere and, and no one's been able to tell me this one story of like helping me make sense of. And you are the first person, this place, the first place in the that sense that I'm sensing, I have, I am, I'm getting a little bit of hope. Should I be getting my hope up? It's like, yes, you should feel that right on day one. Even though it's about creating that connection and there's going to be a level of scarcity that we're going to create through just saying, hey, if we can help you, if you're a candidate, if you accept our recommendations, if you choose to move forward with care, there's a lot of ifs that are going to precede the. Then we'll get started with your first adjustment and we'll start moving towards these outcomes. And then there's going to be a level of concern that's got to be created. I mean, listen, at the end of the day, if you don't believe, if you're not convicted it, that subluxation is a condition that rips people's health and life from them, that then you're not going to step into that moment and you're not going to be able to draw the line and be that person that's going to reach your hand out and rescue this person from the clutches of the subluxation condition that's manifesting in all these, a variety of ways that if we can't be that person, so that's day one. You, you got to start that way, then you show up and you're on. You're in your day too. Dr. Stephen now it's about ownership and direction. Because we did, we do our connection discovery well, Doc, Steven, we're moving into an ownership and direction conversation where it's like, here are the keys, it's your car, man. Like, you can hire us, we'll help you on your journey. But you got to take ownership of this thing. You got to say, listen, my health, my history, my story, what I did and haven't done, I take full ownership. But what I do moving forward, I own and I'm going to do it. And I choose you as the expert. You with your program, then your path. I choose you because the outcome that I desire, I believe I'M best going to achieve that with you.

That's what happens 100% to recognize that patients come in desiring the outcome. You don't have to give them that, right? So they, they.

That.

That's why they showed up. They, they took the hardest step, right? They came over the. They, they, they overcame the inertia of not taking action. They walked into your office, a place full of strange people doing strange things, right? So this is like there's literally they, they've done the hardest part, right? So there's two things I know. The hardest part for a patient is to raise their hand and say, I need help, and walk into your office. That's the hardest part. The easiest part for them to do is to pay for their care.

If you get what I just said, there is the, the easy part is for them to pay for their care. Pull out your credit card, strike your credit card. That's the easiest part of this. Showing up three times a week, changing your bad behaviors. We have bad habits. Adding your exercises, changing your perspective on how you think about your health and your life and everything. That's the hard part. People make paying for their care the hard part. You guys have got that backwards. Swiping the credit card's the easiest part of this, okay? So if you do this problem goal path, plan properly, if you set this thing up properly, understanding what people are striking their credit card doing is they're buying an outcome. They walk in with the outcome. They already want the outcome. They don't want your features. You're trying to sell them features. They want the outcome. Your job is to unearth the outcome. Get them to say it to you. And once they see that chiropractic is the bridge between where they are today and where they want to be tomorrow, that's when the credit card goes swip right across. Because what you've done is you've unearthed the outcome, the process that you follow. The first, it's a pre frame, then it's asking the right questions. This is Socratic getting them to tell you what's going on. And here's the secret sauce you're recapping. When you can recap to a person and you can explain their problem and their goals back to them better than they explained to you. They always convert. Paying for their care is the easiest part of this. This some of you listening right now. This is a cathartic moment when you change the framing. It was like when you're looking and you shake the hand of a new patient. You need to recognize that they're on the other side of the hardest part of this whole process. They've already done the hardest part. And you're making the easiest part, the hardest part because of the way you're doing it. It's your process between these two points that's making it the hardest part. When it's actually the easiest part. When you recognize that people buy outcomes, not features, it changes the entire dynamic of day one, day two, and the conversion becomes automatic. The conversion becomes the breakaway layup. When you recognize that people aren't interested in hearing, oh, yeah, I get to get checked three times a week and adjusted three. So I got to figure out how to get here three times per week for six weeks. And then I get to graduate to twice a week, and then it graduate to once a week and, oh, it sounds like I'm going to be here, coming here forever. Okay, so are you. But. But it's for the best adjustments in the world. And you're going to move me around these four tables after you run your nervous scope down and take X rays of me. I'm going to get Progress exams every 12 visits and progress reports every 13 visits, RE exams and RE reports and thermal scans and postural evaluations. It sounds like I get to slash, have to go to a workshop, and then I can do advanced workshops and all the brochures you can eat. Like, that's not. That's not it. What they want to hear is, I can get better, I can get stronger, and I can get healthier. So, Dr. Pete, when we're giving those recommendations for care, they've got to be standing in front of those recommendations. We have an infographic that we're going to give away today that we use. It's the recommendations for care infographic that lays it out in three stages. We've already asked you about your problems. We've already asked you about your goals, and now we're going to give you our best recommendations for care and our two things. Script is power, right? To be able to say, listen, I'm going to give you my best recommendations or care, and I want you to know where these recommendations are coming from, what these recommendations are based on. Two things. Your goals and our findings. Your goals. You told me what you're trying to accomplish. We did some objective examination, and those exam results tell us what you need to do to get what you want. That's it. Now we're a GPS system.

You.

You told us what you're trying to accomplish. What are your goals? We did objective exam. Those exam Results tell us what you need to do to get what you want.

Okay.

And if you look at this infographic now you're showing them visually. These are the three stages of care. We can help you get what you want. And this first stage of care, which is about your immediate goals, is about you getting better. The second stage of care, which is about your short term goals, is about you getting stronger. The third stage of care is about your long term goals, which is about you getting your health back so you'll have the energy that you'll need to live the life that makes your life your life. Better, stronger, healthier. Dr. Pete, people don't buy features, they buy outcomes. Hey, Doc, Steven Fransen here. If you're like me, you know that we're in the business of saving lives. And when business is good, everybody wins. That's the good news. But here's the bad news. Most chiropractors don't own a business at all. They own a job. It's a job they love, but it's a job. And far too often it feels like that job owns them. Is this true for you? Do you own a business or a job? Have you built and do you run your practice on brute force? Does it rely fully on your time, your effort? A pound of your flesh? Are you responsible for all growth, for all new patient generation? How about new patient conversions?

Is it all up to you?

How about patient care and delivery? Are you a sole practitioner, an owner operator who owns the practice but is also the only one that is head down and bum up taking care of all the patients? Is revenue generation or collections all up to you? Let me ask you the most telling question, doc. What would happen if you took 90 days off? What breaks in my experience, most on purpose chiropractors do not lay awake at night worrying about their practice. They worry about their business. Let's slay that dragon. The remarkable CEO program has helped hundreds of chiropractors just like you turn the job that they love into the business that they've always wanted. Are you ready to run and build your practice on leverage instead of brute force? Do you want to create the scalability and durability that will allow you to make a bigger impact and a bigger income? What would it mean to grow your practice, increase your productivity and your profitability? Do you want to get your time freedom back? Are you ready to turn your pirate ship into a battleship? If this sounds like you, then the remarkable CEO program is for you. Just last year, 53 of our remarkable clients received the Seven Figure Club Award, meaning they hit the million dollar mark for the first time or their next million dollar level, be it 2 million, 3 million, 10 million, up to 36 million and growing.

Now.

Doc, is it crazy to imagine that your practice could be next? Click the link below and learn how to apply for the next cohort of the Remarkable CEO program. We look forward to working closely with you and creating the business that supports your remarkable life, not competes with it.

Please stick around for more business insights from this week's bonus interview with our remarkable success partner dedicated to helping you more successfully help more people. Enjoy.

Hey guys, Dr. Pete Camiolo here in the studio with Dr. Miles Bon and Holly Jensen from Cash Practice. I am super pumped to be with these guys and I've had an opportunity to work with them on and off over the years. And many of the doctors who I work with, who work with them are just so thankful and grateful to have Cash Practice in their corner and in their world. And we're thrilled because they are one of our remarkable success partners, experts in this area. They've been there and done that and you guys have so much to learn from them and they're super pumped to share with you today some things that are on their heart. But I'll let them introduce themselves so you get a little bit of an awareness of who this is. If you don't know who they are, haven't heard them before. I'm sure most of you have, but maybe you haven't. Dr. Miles, I'll throw it to you first. Share with us a little about who you are, a little bit of your background, a little bit of background of your company and then we'll throw it over to Holly.

I'll keep this really brief. I'm Dr. Miles Bodzin, founder and CEO of Cash Practice. Dr. Pete, thank you so much for having us and hosting us. We really appreciate being part of your tribe. I've known Fransen for over a decade and it's just really great to be part of your group. As far as background, I practice as a chiropractor. Like everybody listening right now for about 20 years. I'd love to say it was always successful. I struggled at the very beginning and reached out to a group and eventually got some help turn the corner from going from struggle to great success. And I will say the cornerstone of what changed that for me was learning how to do some of the things I'm going to will share with you today. And that is care planning was a big cornerstone of that. That without care planning, you really kind of struggle. And when you're successful at doing that, we rock and rolled. I'm happy to introduce Holly Jensen here with us. I'll take you take it away in a second here. I'm so proud of Holly who's been working by my side for over 20 years now. I think 23 years now. We're going on now working together our chief operations officer at cash practice and prior to that served as my office manager in the chiropractic office for nearly a decade. Has extensive knowledge in the world of helping chiropractors and CAS rock and roll. And Holly, take it away from your a little bit about yourself as well.

I mean I'll just add I'm the only former ca I know who has an actress portray them in a movie.

That's true.

Yeah. So if you want to check it out thecallingmovie.com you can stream it for free. It's actually movie, a short, really nice, well done film. A true story that shows the story of Dr. Miles being called to become a chiropractor. So I'm sure a lot of you can relate to that. But it also has in there the story of a patient who comes in for pain relief and turns into a lifetime wellness patient. And it shows the story of little Holly Jensen being called to serve alongside Dr. Miles at the capacity that I was in back in that. That day. So yeah, the movie was over 20 years in the making. But I highly encourage your listeners to go check it out. It's a nice, inspiring, feel good film.

What can you one more time state the way that we find it out? It's like the calling.

You said the calling movie dot com. It's not the one with Susan Sarandon. This is the one with Dr. Miles spots it and Holly Jensen.

Nice. Okay, well thanks for sharing that. Already learning more about you guys. And it's, it's an honor for me to be with these actors on this and you know, now you guys are famous film stars. So thanks for being here today and for just even what you said at the beginning. Dr. Miles, going back to you, you know, the struggle is real, you know, and I think the reality is, is in business, if we are brutally honest and we can raise our hand and say, hey, need some help? And you kind of shared that a little bit in your story and just saying, hey, need help. It's amazing how things can change. Turnaround for you.

Absolutely.

Can you talk about that a little bit more maybe, maybe through the lens of your story, your own journey from that struggle to success and specifically with Cash Practice, how did that birth from your story? Because clearly it birthed from some pain, but it became so important to you that you needed to give this to other people. Maybe just a little bit about that.

Yeah, absolutely. And, Holly, thanks for bringing up the movie, the calling that you go watch that movie and you'll. And you'll see well portrayed this entire story. But I'll give you the. I'll give you the Cliff Note version. And that is. When I got out of school in the early 90s, I was, you know, wanting to do a wellness type practice. In fact, the name of my practice back then in 1994 seems a while ago now. 1994 was the chiropractic Wellness Center. And that name is pretty common today. We see it all over the place. But in 94, when I named my practice that the word wellness was nowhere to exist in chiropractic, at least in San Diego. When I named my practice, I went to the city of San Diego to register the name with the business name.

Literally.

There were no other businesses with the word wellness at the time. We were the very first. And this is a time period when you looked at the advertising of chiropractors and it was all about back pain, neck pain, car accidents. You looked at the yellow pages at the time, and that's what it was all about. And there was another big thing happening in the early 90s, which was this thing called managed care, which is everywhere now. But back then it was brand new. And here I was, this young kid out of school wanting to do wellness. I wanted to do the insurance thing. Everybody else was doing insurance. They were killing it. You know, the local chiropractor had been there for 20 years, was driving his Ferrari around, you know, killing it, doing insurance. But I tried to get involved in it, and I couldn't. They weren't letting the new kids into the managed care program, so I couldn't get into it. And so the scenario was is everybody has insurance with a managed care program that I'm not part of. I want to do wellness. Everybody thinks of chiropractic for back pain, neck pain, and car accidents. And I ran into a brick wall. And what changed that was I got some assistance on, like how to sit down with a patient, communicate with them, with them in a day one, day two, how to talk with them and get them to say yes to a care plan. And what I learned was what a lot of chiropractors learned. I learned how to sell care. I learned how to get really good at that and I got great at doing prepays, which is a common program out there in the world of chiropractic right now, or it has been forever. It's not a new idea, and I.

Got good at it.

And then one day, Pete, I. I had the experience where I had three military families who all prepaid me get orders to leave San Diego. So what did I have to do? I had to write a bunch of refund checks, right? So I had the pleasure of writing about $10,000 in refunds that week. And it dawned on me, like, well, this really sucks. This really sucks that I'm living on borrowed money, and I got to figure out how to change this. And that's what started this whole process of cash practice. I started going, all right, there's got to be a better way of doing this. And I learned to do monthly payments, basically, is what I learned to do. And I wanted to, at that time, say, well, there's got to be an easy way to do this. There's got to be an easier way to do this. Because Holly remembers this day back then where we used to keep credit cards on file and have her sit at the front desk for an hour or two typing in credit card numbers to run payments. And this was back in the late 90s, early 2000s. So I started developing software. I have a background in software engineering, or electrical engineering, I should say, in software prior to chiropractic. So I started building software for myself to use in practice.

I'm giving you the very Cliff Note version here. I went from that struggle to having some success learning how to do care planning, to having greater success putting people on monthly payments, to eventually developing software to make it easy to do that. So that's what led to where we are today of cash back is like, I gotta create some stuff for myself and, like, a lot of great ideas that are done for yourself. Other people catch wind of it, and they want to use it. And that's kind of the beginnings of this whole thing where other people wanted to start using what I had created. And it's blossomed into this thing we have today. But it all started out of, you know, the pain of not being able to have success in practice and eventually learning what it took to be to be successful. And that's really kind of the Cliff Note version of that story.

Yeah, no, I think it's important, and I love speaking about this, the principles of business, too. Like, the reality is the opposition was your way. That was your path, instead of it being the, you know, the thing that deterred you. It is actually, it was the way, like the storm, you know, the only way through it is through it, like your challenge was your opportunity. And I think for all of you who are listening, whatever is going on in your business, in life right now, like, whatever your current challenge is, I just want you to hear what Dr. Miles said. He just said, basically, lean in, Lean in and don't give up and see what's going to come out of this. You used another language earlier in the call or during this, our time together. You said called to serve. That language is really important to me. Those three words, called to serve. Okay. There's a calling on your life. If you're listening to this. I just, you know, we're on a podcast. We have an opportunity to talk shop. We get an opportunity to talk real. You're talking real. And I know everybody who's listening. It's like, oh, yeah, everything is really, everything is roses and, you know, green grass and sunny days. Everything's going great. Money is just flowing in. It's awesome. It's like, yeah, okay, well, what if it's not? Then you're listening to this. I just wanted to hear what Doc Miles, you said, which is don't give up. Stay the course. And by the way, there's, there's, there are ways to get there, to improve, to see the, to see things improve for you, whatever area it is in your life. And so with that, you know, and thinking about this care planning thing, I had a guy actually recently reach out to me actually just in this week when we're recording this and really struggling with this. It's the second person in two weeks and they're like, hey, I'm trying to figure out the care plan thing. I'm trying to figure out how to do it all. I have insurance, but I also want to be able to do self pay and all this stuff, right? So they're in this game and they're trying to figure it out. Can you guys talk to, you know, the problems that you're solving for chiropractics? Very specifically, practically, in a day in and day out office. I don't know If I'm going, Dr. Miles, Dr. Or Holly, or both of you guys, to answer this question, but can you talk a little bit about it? Because I think at a high level, we understand what you're doing. You've built this amazing software. But talk practically, like on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, like, specifically, how is this and what you guys have built and continue to refine and optimize over the years. What, what are we doing as far as solving problems, real time problems for real chiropractors in business right now in 2025, when we're recording this in 2025, what kind of kind of issues are we seeing and what are you guys helping solve?

I'm going to go ahead and address this head on and I'm going to turn it to Holly to talk about how this helps CAS as well and the problems they deal with in practice. As I see, we solve four key problems. There's four key problems we solve. Number one that we solve is enrollment problems. If you're challenged with enrolling patients in care, it's beyond. There's a variety of things that we that that play tribute to whether you successfully enroll someone in care or not. And part of that is how good are you at your care planning now? Part of it obviously is your communication, your day one, your day two, all of that communication stuff. But the actual mechanics of how you build your care plans, how you present them. In fact, I believe we even have something we can give everybody as a free resource of better presenting your financial plans. We'll share that with everybody when we're done here. But from the standpoint of what we solve, if you have trouble enrolling people in care, it begins with care planning. The second thing, we help doctors. And I know for a fact we do this over and over and over. We see it routinely and that is we help doctors skyrocket the retention across the board. When doctors apply, the care planning that we teach them to do, their retention goes through the roof. I have seen many practices have great conversion process, a good enrollment process and not have good retention. It's very easy to do that. You could easily sign up lots of people, but still not retain people long term. But I will tell you, I've never ever seen a practice not have a good enrollment and have a good retention. Like retention is based upon you having good enrollments. And when you use our tools, you will improve your enrollments for sure. And especially if you couple that with the trainings you guys do for their day one, day two, 1,000%, you're going to be knocking it out of the park enrolling people in care. The question is, are you retaining them? And what we found is your retention is impacted by four key things, which is a separate topic. I'll just mention one of them is care, the way you care plan. And number two is how you collect that money. That business model has a tremendous impact on your retention. Think of the days of Netflix versus Blockbuster. Right? There's a difference in your subscription to Netflix versus you going to Blockbuster and buying a, you know, and renting a dvd. Think of those two different business models, same thing in practice. The way you run that business model will dramatically impact your retention. The third thing we solve is simply insurance headaches. And I say that because, not because we help you with insurance, but just because when doctors use the stuff we, we teach, their cash revenue dwarfs. Dwarfs their insurance revenue. We see practices going from 100,000 a year, I'm sorry, 100,000amonth or a year in cash collections, to 2 million a year in cash collections. Not over the course of a year, but over the course of many years, growing that cash revenue. And as a result, I think if a doctor is collecting a million, $2 million a year of cash, their concerns about insurance become less and less burdensome. Let's just say that. And the fourth thing we help with is freedom. Doctors find a tremendous sense of freedom that when they build their business models the way we teach, it gives them the freedom of flexibility to vacation from their practice without worrying about numbers dropping. It gives them the freedom and flexibility of having location independence. They get their time back. And those are the. I say the doctors listening right now. If you're struggling with those areas, those are all things that if you use the things we teach and the things that we provide in our software at our company, no doubt you will see improvements in that. Holly, I'd like you to chime in as well, because I know you'd love to share with, like, how this impacts our, the people we can't do this without, which is our team. There's no way us doctors can do what we do at the level we do without an A plus team. And I wanted to hear from you. You know, why don't you share some of the things you say as well?

Yeah. Thank you, Dr. Miles. As far as, like, a team standpoint. And, and I'll just add for your listeners, Dr. Miles and I are, are not related. We're partners or colleagues. And, and I, I want to put a highlight on that because normally when you hear of a team member who's been working alongside their doctor for over two decades, they're normally married. And that's not the case here. But what, what we've been able to cultivate is an atmosphere in the practice of not only loyal patients, but loyal team members as well. Because when practice is fun, when we have high patient retention, not necessarily high volume of patients, but high patient retention, we are Truly witnessing the miracles of chiropractic because patients are following through and they're getting better clinical outcomes. As a team member, that is very rewarding to witness. Now you have to have systems in place in order to execute that vision. Right. And the vision is high. Patient retention, patient retention gets better. Clinical outcomes, world a happier place. Right. So you have to have systems in place. Systems create behaviors, behaviors become habits, and habits drive outcomes. Whether it's the outcome is having more cash flow in your practice, the outcome is having more patients be compliant and follow through and finish, finish their treatment plan. That's the habits that we want to create and we can't just do that willy nilly. We have to have structured discipline and systems and Cash Practice provides those systems to help execute those four things Dr. Miles outlined that we solve.

And Pete, I want to add one thing real quick and that is you mentioned a doctor who came to you or several doctors these last couple weeks of having these challenges. Here's the thing. Doctors don't have to refigure this stuff out. They don't have to like be lost. Right. I go in some of the Facebook groups and questions get asked all the time by doctors about this stuff. And unfortunately, it's sort of like asking Facebook for your legal opinion. You wouldn't go to Facebook for your legal opinion, you'd go to an attorney. And when I see in the Facebook groups these kind of things being asked, more often than not the information being shared is because we're dealing with finances, is not compliant, not legal, that type of stuff. So I encourage the doctors, don't try to make this stuff up on your own. There are right ways to do it and there's a lot of wrong ways of it doing, doing this stuff too. So I just, I just want to point that out as well. It's not just about the systems and all the stuff we're talking about that there's literally rules you have to follow when it comes to building out your care plans properly.

Yeah. And our whole philosophy on this has always been, you know, using leverage. You know, you want, you want to leverage. You have a business, Cash practice that exists to serve you and help you with this. Why would you try to figure this out? Why, why would you try to do this on your own or refigured these things out? It's already been done. And you know, so again, it makes so much sense. And that's why for me, as I'm getting all these questions, I just say, hey, you need to go talk to, you know, Cash Practice So that's what I do. I send them, send them your way. It's just an easy one. Like, I don't, I'm not going to sit here and say I've got it figured out. I don't, I, I let you guys take care of that, right? I, so I can focus on what I do best. And when you guys are focusing what you do best and together we're going to help more people. Help more people, which is at the end of the day what we need. We're already playing, we're already swimming upstream. It's already a small in fish in a big pot. Like, we have so much more work to do and we just need to have more help. More chiropractors become more successful. So when you look ahead, right, we're in 2025, you guys have been doing this for two and a half decades or more. So when you look ahead, well, basically what, based on what you said, 1994, I think I said. You said, yeah, three decades, you've just eclipsed a three decade mark. So.

Wow.

Thank you.

Yeah. So, so looking ahead as you, as you look at the next five to 10 years, how is the direction of our chiropractic profession going? Based on your opinions and what cash practice is positioned to help doctors do, how are you going to help us be more successful in the future even than we are now? What would you guys say as you look at the landscape of the way the profession is going?

Here's what I can say is I know students are graduating with more debt than ever. I know insurance is getting harder and harder and worse as the decades continue. I saw this 20 years ago when I might. Where managed care started in Southern California and it spread across the nation like a cancer. I mean, that's where it all began. So we've been witnessing the worsening of insurance for doctors and we're obviously seeing doctors coming out with a bigger burden, a bigger financial burden. As far as like the direction of the industry, I wish I could say I have my finger on the pulse of like the philosophy of what's going on. I can't say I can say I have any knowledge beyond what everybody else does other than I will say when we visit the schools, we will say there's a lot more female students than there were when I was in student school there. Definitely that is a trend you could obviously see as well. So without bringing out a crystal ball, those are the things I can observe and that I know that's happening. And the way we help, quite frankly, is that, listen, doctors, you cannot let me back up. Here's another thing I see, and I've seen this for a while now. There's no middle class in chiropractic anymore. There's either the doctor is really killing it, or they're struggling. The days of just graduating, hanging up your shingle, seeing 100 visits a week, making a really good living. And those days seem to be gone, except for maybe small little pockets throughout the nation. It's either you're really killing it, you're doing a million, 2 million a year, or doctors are really like, I can't figure this out. Like, I'm struggling, right? So this whole middle class thing in chiropractic is kind of, it's not common anymore. So you gotta, if you don't want to be the one struggling, you gotta learn what it takes to be the rock stars. And there are some core basics that, when you're a rock star, that means you've mastered the basics. You've mastered the basics of running that business. Your acquisition is great, your conversion is great, your retention is great, your business model is great, your team building is great. All of those things are just massively successful. Otherwise you're going to be part of that struggling group. That's probably the best way I could say that I see going on that struggling group.

I see all the time in these different chiropractic forums. Chiropractors are struggling with the whole business side of practice. And so one of the things that they're doing is like trying to find a side hustle to also do in addition to chiropractic. Right? Or they're trying to implement some new therapy or some weight loss drops or like there's something they're trying to add in because they're not laser focused on building the business that they have. And so. So I don't think that's going to change. Even with all of the technology and AI, it really comes to, like, rolling up the sleeves and putting your nose to the grindstone and figuring this out. It's not going to be handed to you like a 10th place trophy on your little league team. You've got to do the work and you're going to go through some trials and tribulations. But if you stick with it, if you have the grit and the perseverance, there are tools and resources out there to help you grow your practice and to have your patients and community thrive.

I mean, you guys heard it right here. So I have no more questions to ask except this. So if I'm Listening to what you guys are saying right now. And I'm in a full agreement, 100% aligned, and we can have a different conversation around what we see in the future and the way things are going. But you nailed a couple of things that are spot on. And Holly, you spoke directly to it as well. What's the best way for a listener to, you know, learn more than what they already learned, get in contact with you, take a next step. And then you did mention earlier there's something you want to give away. So can you speak to all those things? That'd be awesome.

I'll take this. Dr. Miles, number one, we have a free gift for you. We would love to share with you guys. We talked about care planning being the foundation of patient retention. And so we have a free video and script that will go through the seven assistance essential elements of a successful care plan. And these are some of the compliant things that you need to be doing in your care plans. So go check out cashpractice.com.

Fro like financial report of findings cashpractice.com forward/frof put in your name and email and we'll email you a video and an actual script of me going through presenting financials of a care plan to a patient with insurance as well. Because our name Cash practice, don't let it fool you. We help practices of all types, especially the practices who are cash and insurance blended. Dr. Mouse.

Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for sharing that. And as well as if you want to just learn more, you can just visit cashpractice.com I would encourage you. Since you brought it up, go to the calling movie dot com. Don't forget the word the thecallingmovie dot com and you can see our story. I think a lot of doctors will find it inspiring. CAS find it inspiring. Every time someone watches it, they come back saying, I didn't know Dr. Baza was an executive producer and that's now part of my title, executive producer of a movie. So a lot of fun with that. So learn more about that. And yeah, we'd be happy to be of service to you. At the minimum, we're here for you to answer your questions and, you know, feel free to reach out. Awesome.

Hey, thanks for taking the time to meet with me and be a part of our podcast. We're grateful to have Cash practice as part of the remarkable practice and our family, our tribe. And you know, as a success partner, we know that as a success partner, you help the doctors and the and the clinics and the teams that we serve help more people become more successful. We're better together. An incredible resource, an incredible point of leverage for everybody listening. So thank you again for taking the time to meet with me here today. For all of you who are listening, hey, thanks for tuning in. Check out Cash Practice and remember to tune in next week for the next episode of the podcast. Until then, God bless everyone. Have a great rest of your day.

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