332 - Do You Want to Sky-Rocket Your Patient Retention?

I remember, I think it was maybe an Alex Hormozi video or something. I. And, and he was talking about tone. Like when you're trying to, to convince somebody, it's basically sales when you're trying to influence somebody, like your tone matters. And there's two ways to teach tone or learn tone. You could either memorize when you're supposed to pitch the voice, you know when you're supposed to change your tone, or you could just really, really care and understand and it comes out innately.

Hello and welcome to the Remarkable CEO podcast. A show dedicated to chiropractors who want to transform their job into a business so that they can have a remarkable practice as part of a remarkable life, not instead of one. With your hosts, Dr. Pete Camiolo and Dr. Steven Fransen.

At Genesis, we help successful chiropractors implement spinal decompression with a fully turnkey system that handles everything from marketing and new patient generation to systems, protocols and ongoing support. The result, Massive value for your practice and life changing outcomes for your patients, all without drugs or surgery. This is the next evolution in chiropractic care. Welcome to Genesys.

Welcome back to another episode of The Remarkable Circumstances CEO Podcast, Chiropractic's number one business podcast. I'm Dr. Pete Camiolo and today in the studio with me, I have a very special guest, Dr. Tabor Smith. Hopefully you all know who he is. Yes, he's a film producer and yes, he is the founder and CEO of Spinal Hygiene Movement as well as a chiropractor with multiple practices in the state of Texas. Dr. Tabor, you are an expert in our space, a thought leader, and it's just truly an honor for me to be able to have you with me today in the studio and have this awesome conversation. We're going to talk about, about growth and our future and helping more, more patients get better results. So thanks for joining me today, man.

Thanks for having me. It's an honor to be here and it's, it's always good to hang out with you.

Well, you came in hot. I'm like, I felt his energy, you know, today. You know, obviously I'm in Tennessee, he's in Texas, but man, our energies combined. I could feel him like, I could see he's got this edge to him today. And I love when someone comes into a meeting with an edge. It's because, you know what, we need to be on the tip of the spear. We talk about as CEOs, we need to be on the tip of the spear and in our chiropractic profession, we need to be leading the charge in terms of helping the sick people get well to discover the truth about God, your laws of health and healing. And we give people the opportunity to come into an encounter with what's true and right and we give them a way to get well and it's a better way, as Dr. Tamer Shirt says, which, by the way, that is an awesome film. So if you haven't seen it, I'm putting a little plug there and, but there is that. And so Dr. Tabor, I know you're coming in like that and I'm coming in like that just because I think we're in the thick of trying to figure out how do we help more chiropractors, help more people, and how do we help more people get better results even faster and keep those results and then reach out into the community, help more people. So we're going to have a conversation today about that. Yeah, if you're a CEO listening to this, that's who Tabor is. He's one of those people in our profession who's helping keeping us chiropractors focused on the main thing and making sure that we're delivering the goods and we're getting the patients are getting the results that we know that they deserve and they need. Doctor, I don't know if you want to add anything to that.

Nah, man, I'd just say that, that you're right in that there's a.

Like, I've been in the heat of it this year because we're, we're pushing hard to share the message of chiropractic. And I feel like I've learned so much business wise because you guys do a great job of this. You, you have to unite that passion for chiropractic with the skills for business. But we don't get anywhere, you know what I mean? And so we have four clinics now and over this last year, man, it's been hard because you think that this passion could just drive it all and it could just grow because there's a reality to what we do. There's a need. I mean, like just speaking reality wise, in our communities, people need this not just to improve their health, but like to keep them from degenerating and decaying and dying early. Like, I'm serious, this is a reality. But it's, why then would it be so hard to get that structure put in that build that business part of it? Why wouldn't it just explode? Right. If you just went out there and had a health Talk and then why wouldn't everything else just take care of itself? So I, I just want to say I appreciate what you do and what Dr. Fransen does, how you put that into perspective to help us stay structured, grow business and have like a life, but also be able to be passionate and share the message of chiropractic and, you know, create teams that have that passion. And anyway, putting those two together, that's, that's the thick of it. That's, that's being right on the edge of where we need to go and what we need to be doing.

So you guys just heard Dr. Tabor share. He's got four clinics and he has another business that serves chiropractic and he's got, I don't know how many, roughly how many clinics right now are utilizing the spinal hygiene movement. Do you know what those numbers are?

Yeah, we're, we're at about 75 clinics, I think.

So if I asked you, because my first question is going to be about vision. To me, when I hear that, I think, man, you know, what is so underutilized that is so underutilized. My personal opinion, because I ran a spinal hygiene type function inside of my office before you had the spinal hygiene movement, is every clinic could benefit from this, regardless of technique. It's technique agnostic. Right? So I personally feel like, I mean, just even if you're listening to the show and you are not already using, I don't have a kit that's turnkey, that's built in, that is driving the education. It keeps you in the forefront of their mind, their spinal health in the forefront of their mind just for retention. I mean, we're not even talking about getting the initial results, but like, long term, it's a no brainer for me, you know, to think about this. So we're going to get into that. But Dr. Tabor, I'm going to ask you a question of vision because when I, when you said that number, I thought, I thought, I thought you were going to say 7,500, which I think is, which is where I think we need to go with this, to be honest. It'd be like me asking a dentist, you know, how many of your patients walk out of there with a toothbrush and, and a thing of floss and maybe a thing, a tube of toothpaste when they walk out of there, even though it's overpriced. It was going to say, yeah, we got about 43% of our patients will get that on their visit. It's like, okay, wow, you Just think about the fact that every single chiropractor should have some level of spinal hygiene. So talk to me about your vision. First question we ask, you know the six sides of the Rubik's Cube. You know how we talk about, you solve your business, you got to go troubleshoot in every one of those boxes. So I'm going to start you with, I'm going to start you off with the first question, which is the first thing you're accountable for as a CEO of this company, which is what's your vision? Which is, what are you trying to achieve? What is success look like? What are you trying to accomplish? Doctor, we're talking right now. It's mid-2025. This will probably air probably in the next couple of weeks, maybe be fall of 2025, who knows? But what do you see when I, when I ask you what's important now in the next, the rest of the year, 2025, the spinal hygiene movement. What's important in the next 18 months between now in December of 2026? What do you see in the next three years? Yeah, I want to hear what's on your heart, man. What are you convicted about? What do you see?

Dude, I'm talking to chiropractors. But we all need to be talking to the masses. And the ultimate vision is 97% of the population doing something every day to take care of their spine. That's the exact statistic of how many people brush their teeth on planet Earth. 97%. Right. If they have access to it, they use it and they, they utilize it. What that means is there is a worldwide awareness that if you don't do something to take care of your teeth, they will decay over time. But there is no worldwide awareness that if you don't do something to take care of your spine, it will degenerate over time. That is the, that is an absolute bottom of the line, foundational fact. And we're starting to see it in massive rates today, more than we've ever seen it before because of sedentary lifestyles, technology, everybody's on in poor postures all day, worse than the human race has ever seen before. So now instead of people's spines decaying and degenerating in 40s and 50s, we're seeing it in teenagers and there's still no awareness. And even I think chiropractors are so close. But the mass majority of chiropractors, we might send somebody home with corrective exercises because they came in with neck pain. So we're trying to stabilize core you know, and paraspinal and all that's fine for, for rehabbing and structurally correcting a spine, but we need to have a powerful education in, in that, look, this is a crisis that you're going through. These subluxation patterns need to be taken care of for the rest of your life. And your family needs to start taking care of them. You need to understand them. Like a subluxation is like a cavity, it needs to be corrected. But spinal hygiene is like dental hygiene. You and your family and everyone you know needs to be doing this every day for the rest of their life. If your teeth are important enough to do something, every day for your spine is way more important than that. It houses the nervous system, the master system that controls every function of the. And that message needs to be pouring through every chiropractic office in the world. And I don't feel like that it.

Is right now, just right there, 97%. And I think about the fact that if that's true and the dental industry has done that in the last X number of decades, 97%. And if you think about, and we probably don't know what our percentage of how many people are doing some level of a spinal hygiene every day, I.

Bet there, I bet there's not 97% of your patients that do it right.

Maybe 3% of your patients are doing right.

Right.

Like good. Chances are like every day consistently. The idea that the adoption rate is so low and there's such a huge, I mean there's a, a blue ocean of people who have a spinal hygiene issue.

Yeah.

Okay. What you're basically saying is 100% of people should be attending to their spine on a regular basis and at a minimum doing some level of spinal hygiene. A lot of us, I think we, we think, oh, we're going to get them as a patient and then once they become a patient, we'll give them some home exercise and then hopefully they'll do it. What I heard from you today was no, they need to be aware that they should be doing something for their spine as hygiene when they're a non patient, which will then lead to start them start doing stuff for their spine when they're non patient, which will then lead them, the dominoes start to fall to then saying, I need to become a patient because I'm already aware that my spinal hygiene is important. Can you talk a little bit about that? Because I think that's a really important distinction.

It's a perfect, it's the model that dentistry created was that, look, your teeth are your responsibility, and how well you take care of them is basically going to at least play a big part of how long they last, right? So you need a dentist on your health team to go for regular checkups because your dentist is trained to detect and correct cavities. So they're helping you to maintain the health of your teeth. And you know what, they're trying to prevent those cavities as much as possible with those checkups and with those cleanings. They don't want you to get cavities.

But.

But cavities happen. That's why you need to continue to go in for checkups. And, and when a cavity is detected, it needs to be corrected. Or any other issue, health issue in the teeth, right? When it's detected, it needs to be corrected. If we could create that same mental concept, that model in chiropractic, that, look, your spine is your responsibility. You need to be doing something every day to maintain alignment, mobility, and strength. And so then you need to have a chiropractor on your health team that you go to on a regular basis that checks you for subluxation, because they are trained to detect and correct subluxation. And so we want to try to prevent it, but it happens. That's why you come in on a regular basis with your family to get checked. And the only difference in that analogy might be the frequency that you have to get checked. One of the reasons is your teeth are on the outside of your skin, right? I can scrape, literally scrape things off your teeth with some people's spines. I'm working through inches of tissue to be able to adjust that. That just means you have to come in more frequently to get checked. And it's worth it because your spine's even more important than your teeth. Like, this analogy works so well. If we could just grasp it, it would help us to grow a profession that could be inside every household in the world. And, and dentistry's done such a good job of sharing this education and building this. This model that now parents do their job for them. Like, my kids got teeth in their mouth. And I'm like, you're brushing every night. We're taking you to the dentist to get your teeth checked. And the dentist didn't have to do anything to educate me or my kids. My parents taught me. And so once we do actually reach a masses, I think they call it a tipping point. You know, it's like they, the people that understand, their, their understanders, they went from believers, understanders. They're the ones that can share our Message after that.

Yeah.

So you used a word, one of my favorite words, which is, you are responsible. You said, you are responsible. There's a responsibility there. And you talked about alignment and mobility and strength and our role and their role, and everybody's got to be responsible. That word makes me think of the second side of the Rubik's Cube, which is the question of leadership, which is, I believe, where we're leading. Because when you say to me and you put out all these stats and you say all these things, and everybody who's a chiropractor who's listening to this is nodding their head like, yeah, you're right. Exactly right. Yeah, we should. Yeah, let's get to a tipping point. Okay, then the next question is, well, what do I need to do about it? Like, what can I do about it? So when we talk about leadership, the question we ask is, who do I need to become? Right. So if I'm listening to this, and I am, because I'm listening to you speak right now, and I'm thinking right now to myself, okay, what do I need to do to help make this happen in my role in chiropractic? Hopefully everyone who's listening to this podcast right now is thinking the same thing. All right. Wow, Dr. Haber, you're spot on. You're right, actually. I knew that, but I forgot. Or I think I've heard you say it before, but it hit me different today. Or this is, like, blowing my mind because I didn't even think about that. Okay, the next question you have to ask. Otherwise, it's just good. Good idea. Wow, that guy's fired up. And they move on. We move on with our day, and nothing changes. What needs to change? Like, so the question is, who do I need to become? What's the leader? Who does the leader need to become? Including everyone on this. On this podcast is a leader. Who do we need to become? Doctor, in your opinion, how do we start to make. Take some territory, move the needle on this? What does that look like?

Sure. You know, I think one of the reasons I. I started teaching what we call the certified spinal hygienist program was to really understand this process of degeneration and decay of joints, how that happens. Now, don't get me wrong, a lot of chiropractors were stuck on, you know, it's a brain thing. It's a nervous system thing. I get it. But if that nervous. I mean, if that spine is not healthy, nervous system is not healthy. They're intimately tied together. So if we study the degeneration of that spine and the degeneration of those joints, and we know what causes it and how it happens to a very detailed, intricate, expert level. Then we can reverse engineer the solution, just like dentistry did. In fact, in 1895 was when they first discovered the cause of the cavity that bacteria build in the teeth. Bacteria will digest food particles left in the teeth and they secrete an acid that causes dental caries, right? So they could come in and they could say, and this was right in that industrial revolution, so just tons of sugars were being poured into our diet, so cavities were going crazy at that point, right? They could come in and they can try to teach everybody to just eliminate sugar. But they understood finally the mechanism of how this process happened and the details around the health of the teeth. And so they reverse engineered this, this solution and they, they use deductive reasoning to say, look, if bacteria build up in the teeth and they digest food particles and acid, if we clean our teeth multiple times a day, then we won't give them a chance. We could reduce, we're not going to be perfect. Nobody's perfect. But we could reduce the chances, the risk of tooth decay if you take care of your teeth like this. And so we can say that with spinal hygiene, with confidence, when we learn that misalignments due to Wolf law, I mean, basically, ultimately the umbrella is long term subluxation leads to degeneration. But we can say that misalignments cause the stress patterns in through the spine that cause bone spurs. We can say that lack of mobility in the disc, lack of inhibition causes compression and loss of hydration. And so we can reverse some things that say, hey, can we help a patient maintain alignment after we've corrected it and for the rest of their life, can we help them by, you know, introducing mobility into every joint and then showing them how to maintain that mobility on it on a daily basis, or the muscles that are there to hold that alignment and keep that spine strong. Can we show them how to nurture those and maintain, maintain those on a regular basis? And that's what we try to do with spinal hygiene. Come at it from a rational approach. And people understand that we always say that conversion in the beginning might be emotional, but people that understand it rationally and go, that makes perfect sense. I know exactly why I should be taking care of my spine now. They're the lifers in your practice and they're the ones that are going to help us to share this message.

So what I'm hearing is the program you Created certified spinal hygienist program that you created. The certification was really to say, hey, guys, I don't want you just to say, hey, I'm going to take Tabor's word for it. No, I'm going to go through a certification process. My staff can go through the certification process. We can get trained in this. We can understand the science, the art, the philosophy of the spinal hygienist through the spinal hygienist program. To then put ourselves in a position of an authority. Because you talked about, you know, conversion and then retention. I want to talk about attraction, which attraction is a reflection of your certainty. And I think when I hear this certification, the word certainty is inside of certification. It's like a certainty to become certain. So can you talk a little bit about that program? I think that's very interesting that you created that. I believe you were. You are certified through some of the chiropractic colleges. Can you talk a little bit about that? Because that was a. A leadership decision. You made an investment. You made. And also part of your visionary role as a CEO to make the decision. Talk about that. And what, what would that look like for people to get more involved with that?

Sure. So we work with Life University to provide CE credits and I'll speak at Life University and do the program there. Occasionally the program takes us through the studies behind what causes degeneration, and we look at every cause. So a lot of it's not just misalignment or abnormal motion or. Or abnormal tone and muscle, like genetics do play a role. But there are some very interesting studies. We look at the twin spine study where they showed that, you know, 60% of genetics could contribute to degenerative levels. And then you look at dentistry and they have the almost exact same number. 60% of your genetics could correlate with how many cavities that you get. And 40% of how well you take care of your teeth will determine how many cavities you get. And we, and we can actually show, based on that study, that 40% of what we do to our spine could help prevent degeneration. We look at toxins that cause decay and degeneration, like smoking, that speeds up the degenerative process. Then we look into postural issues, like where kids are on computers up to 10 hours a day in some in our society today. And so, and that was pre Covid numbers taken from the CDC, by the way, like all of those things. Dr. Tapio, vitamin one of the first people to do the studies back in the 80s where he would he would cast rabbits joints and then dissect into them and look at them underneath a microscope at different time intervals. He showed that within two weeks of a joint that's immobilized, it starts to build adhesions and then those adhes lesions turn into calcifications and start that degenerative process. That's why I base wellness, or at least maintenance in my office is every two weeks. Because of the studies that are showing you immobilize a joint for that long, you're going to have arthritis set in. And I want to help my patients prevent arthritis. And patients get that when I explain that to them, that I don't think once a month is doing anything for you, that type of thing. So we dive into all of those issues.

Hey Doc, Steven Fransen here. If you're like me, you know that we're in the business of saving lives. And when business is good, everybody wins. That's the good news. But here's the bad news. Most chiropractors don't own a business at all. They own a job. It's a job they love, but it's a job. And far too often it feels like that job owns them. Is this true for you? Do you own a business or a job? Have you built and do you run your practice on brute force? Does it rely fully on your time, your effort, a pound of your flesh? Are you responsible for all growth, for all new patient generation? How about new patient conversions?

Is it all up to you?

How about patient care and delivery? Are you a sole practitioner, an owner operator who owns the practice but is also the only one that is head down and bum up taking care of all the patients? Is revenue generation or collections all up to you? Let me ask you the most telling question, doc. What would happen if you took 90 days off? What breaks in my experience, most on purpose chiropractors do not lay awake at night worrying about their practice. They worry about their business. Let's slay that dragon. The remarkable CEO program has helped hundreds of chiropractors just like you turn the job that they love into the business that they've always wanted. Are you ready to run and build your practice on leverage instead of brute force? Do you want to create the scalability and durability that will allow you to make a bigger impact and a bigger income? What would it mean to grow your practice, increase your productivity and your profitability? Do you want to get your time freedom back? Are you ready to turn your your pirate ship into a battleship? If this sounds like you, then the remarkable CEO program is for you. Just last year, 53 of our remarkable clients received the Seven Figure Club Award, meaning they hit the million dollar mark for the first time or their next million dollar level, be it 2 million, 3 million, 10 million, up to 36 million and growing. Now Doc, is it crazy to imagine that your practice could be next? Click the link below and learn how to apply for the next cohort of the Remarkable CEO program. We look forward to working closely with you and creating the business that supports your remarkable life, not competes with it.

So the third side of the Rubik's Cube, as you know, Doc, Tabor is the system side which you love. I know you love that about trp, I know you, you love that and we love that about you is how you've systematized this. So I'm looking over your right shoulder and I can see that amazing poster which you created. And you've created such great branding around the product. Can you talk a little bit about the system? Because as a leader, right wherever you don't have a system, people are going to be winging it and there's the lack of productivity reproducibility and it's going to, it keeps us very small, so. And it makes it hard and it makes it non reproducible and it doesn't lead to the best outcomes and it's not as profitable and all the things right. It's all negative without a system. So systems are the key. So can you talk about the system because you built the system that in my office, in any office, can take this system and integrate it in. Can you talk about the importance of system, why the system was created, how you kept making adjustments to the system to make sure it works better? Maybe you could give us a little bit of that and then what, what are the keys to success in terms of integration of spinal hygiene into an actual existing functioning practice?

Great question. And I think that there's a built in system that is there as we created the kit, like there's a specific reason why we use what we call the four core spinal hygiene exercises. And then there's a patient education system that you can implement around it in detail. What we want to do with spinal hygiene is similar again to dental hygiene. I know I keep using those analogies, but the toothbrush is simple, it's easy to use and it's effective. Now those three things are important because if it took a degree to figure out how to use it, it would never be in every household. If it took an hour out of your day to Brush your teeth, you wouldn't do it. Nobody would be that consistent with it. If it wasn't effective, if it didn't actually prevent tooth decay, then why would you do it? So we need that around spinal hygiene. And as chiropractors, we kind of think more is better and we end up giving all of these corrective exercises to patients. And I have nothing against corrective exercises, but if consistency is more important than doing something, is more important than not doing it. Right. And so with these four core spinal hygiene exercises, these are non prescriptive, meaning like the toothbrush, anybody can use it, you can go get it anywhere, like you could have, you could share your toothbrush. I don't recommend that, but you could somebody else, they could use it. And, and with these spinal hygiene exercises, these four core exercises are designed to help a patient maintain alignment, mobility and strength. And we do that very specifically through a range of motion exercise that helps the patient take their spine through a full range of motion every day. A spinal molding exercise that helps support curves in the lumbar area and the neck, because we know alignment is very important. And then there's two areas of the spine that every chiropractor will agree with me that we see more degeneration in these two areas than any other areas. And that's C5, base of the neck. Right. And L4, L5 lower back. And the reason that is is because the two most degenerative postures, most commonly degenerative postures are head forward posture. And so we're getting bone spurs on the anterior formations of C5, C6, then sitting for long periods of time. We're getting, there's no movement. No. There's lack of inhibition and L4, L5, so they're compressing and losing hydration. So we have two exercises in there that are specifically designed to help your patients prevent degeneration in those two areas. A resistance band exercise and a wobble disc exercise. And all of that is packaged into such simplicity that they can either read the instructions or watch the videos and know how to do that. And very rarely do they ever have to even come back in and ask the team for questions on how to do those exercises. So that's, that's one part of that system. Now what I recommend chiropractors do is create that system to educate that patient about why they should be. So there was a study, and I don't remember the name of it, but they took two groups and this was actually a home exercise program study. They gave two groups the exact same exercises and showed them how to do them. So they gave them instructions, told them to do them this many times a day. Now, one group, they actually explained the benefit of each exercise and why they should be doing each exercise. That group was 60% more compliant because they knew what the benefit was and why they should be doing the exercise. So that's why we created a system, a patient education system that's built around automated emails that patients get, videos that you send out and you post to social media flyers that teach them about each exercise. And it actually comes with an entire book that teaches the benefit and the reason why the each exercise is recommended.

I mean, you've gone above and beyond, doc. You're making this as easy as it possibly can be for us as doctors to be able to integrate this in. And I loved how you talked about, you know, the simple, easy to use and effective. And I know your kid, I know you're the spinal hygiene kit. I know that it meets those criteria. And you continue to test to make sure that it does. And you obviously have multiple clinics that you can be getting, you know, real time feedback from your existing patients to refine that. So the key with the system is, number one, it's actually implementing the system. The other one is actually following up and following through. So keeping it going, keeping the system going, which is for the clinic side. So for us as clinics, clinicians, we need to make sure that we are baking into the treatment plans, baking into the patient journey, this kit and the education. And then you've built in, like you said, these automations that we get to have advantage of, we could take advantage of as practitioners. So our patients, we know, are going to get those messages for a period of time that's going to remind them and reinforce everything we're wanting them to learn, know about the value of their adjustments and the importance of taking care of their spine when they're at home. That, to me sounds like a system.

Right?

So that's what a system is. System's supposed to produce outcomes. So let's talk about the fourth side of the Rubik's Cube then, Dr. Tabor, which is team. So can you talk about, because you, you had mentioned to me at the beginning of our call or this podcast today that your CAS can get certified in this. And so this isn't just for a doctor. This isn't a doctor only certification. This is actually a spinal hygienist certification. So this is for anyone and everyone on the team. Can you talk about the team and what their role is in this and your vision for certified spinal hygienists. Can you talk about that? Because I know that's a huge vision you have.

I don't think I really understood how important this part is. You know, everybody says, yes, it's important to educate your team. But over, over the last year, one of the things we struggled with was conversion. Whether it was conversion to new patient or conversion to wellness. And we're trying to get those numbers up. And so I studied a lot of different, like, salespeople and trying to understand, well, what do we say? What's the scripting? What's the scripting that's going to get us our conversions up? And I remember, I think it was maybe an Alex Hormozi video or something. I. And he was talking about tone. Like, when you're trying to. To convince somebody, it's basically sales. When you're trying to influence somebody, like, your tone matters. And there's two ways to teach tone or learn tone. You could either memorize when you're supposed to pitch the voice, you know when you're supposed to change your tone, or you could just really, really care and understand. And, and it come. It comes out innately. Like, if I'm saying, Pete, you're in phase two degeneration. Like, I know your goal is to see your grandkids, be able to play with them and do what you want to do. I'm telling you, we've got to do something about this right now. Like, that tone would come out, when I care about you, I assist. Sincerely. People can sniff and smell out anything that's not since. And it would come out when I understand, I really, truly understand what that finding means. And they would. They said that, you know what, your patients need you to coach them through that decision. If they could make their own decision about it, they wouldn't need you. They would just send in the money and then just go get adjusted. Right. They wouldn't have to do an exam, but they need us to be able to understand this, these concepts really, really well so that we understand the impact and the weight of them. So then when you do that better, I've noticed when your team understands it too, that tone starts to come out more in your office. And it doesn't have to be just in a sales room trying to convert an rlf. It could be in, in a, in giving somebody exercise recommendations at home. It could be putting somebody on a decompression table or getting them adjusted and doing your, you know, your table talk every single day. Like, that tone matters. And the more you understand and, and the more you care, the more that comes across. And so what I've found is that teams that come through this program, it's like light bulbs go off in some of the team members that have never really understood it to this level. And then they become way better chiropractic assistants because now they understand the weight of it. Does that make sense?

Yeah, a hundred percent. You, you reminded me of kind of a revelation I had back in the day when we were dealing with some challenges with patients being non compliant with their spinal hygiene exercises at home. And we were recognizing this as an issue. We were troubleshooting it from all the directions. And then I called a timeout. I remember in one team meeting I was like, whoa, whoa, hold on. I know that all of you are under regular chiropractic care because I adjust you, we adjust you here in the office. I believe you've all had a re X ray and you've had those on a timely fashion. But how many of you are doing any spinal hygiene related exercises at home? And it was like blank stares. And it was like no one was doing their exercises at home. Maybe one person was using a roll, like a neck roll, like a Denner roll kind of neck roll pillow. And it was like, that was it. This was our team, like 12, 14 people on the team. And it's looking around the room, doctors cas, everybody, Dr. Tabor. That was a huge revelation for me. And we immediately stopped that. Everybody got home exercise equipment, they got taught how to do it. We took our team through training how to get trained for yourself. They had quote, unquote, known how to teach somebody else, but they learned it for themselves. Then they started doing it themselves at home. We started holding each other accountable to it. And guess what we saw as an inflection point in our patient base over the next six months? Major change in our compliance for our home exercises. Why? Because we were doing it. We took ownership. So you talk about the power of tone, you talk about that. That comes from a place of, like you said, understanding. The empathy, the concern, the genuineness, the authenticity that came across from my team, from myself, even when I could say this to my patients, I could actually tell the story I just told you to them in a workshop and be like, listen, hey, I had to call timeout on my team and we weren't doing it. So we do expect that from you, but I want you to know that we expect that from ourselves. So we're not asking you to do anything that we're not doing for ourselves. Does that make sense?

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I think that it's. At least for me, it's worked well to start with a foundation of rationality. Like, guys, here's what happens if you don't take care of your spine. You don't want to be there. Guys, here's how you do it. And it's super easy. And you just have to spend 60 seconds to a minute, two minutes a day to do it. Would you care enough about your own spine to be able to do that every day? And then you can help teach my patients who. Who need to learn this. You know what I mean? Like, that. That I'm passionate about what I do, but I feel like it's also tied into the strongest rationality of any. That. Where anything could come from. It's just true.

Yep.

You know, we talk about the motivational triad. People move away from pain towards pleasure. With the greatest economy of energy, they're more prone to move away from pain. And that's what you're talking about. It's like, hey, two weeks in degeneration, a month in permanent damage, start getting set in. It's like, people are like, whoa, whoa, what?

To me?

To my child? Are you kidding me? And then, you know, so, yeah, I think that's such a powerful thing. Making it. Taking it personally. You talked about the team, and the team now having a positive influence over the outcomes for the patients, which is, you know, doc, this is a CEO podcast. We're talking about scaling. Anytime a doctor hears about a new program, a new thing to implement that, you know, their first thought is like, oh, that's just another thing that I'm gonna have to do. And they shut off like, there's no way. I got no time for it, man. I've already. I'm already stretched thin. Like, I can't add another thing. And it's another expense, and it's another, you know, filling the blank. Talk to that CEO right now who's listening to us, and, like, this all sounds great, Dr. Abram. I'm 100% with you, but the wall has gone up. And, like, the little bit of sense of resistance. Talk to me about. Talk to the CEOs about that.

Yeah. So first of all, to the people, maybe if you're not doing any type of home care at all, this will be the easiest thing you've ever implemented in your career. Like, you literally do not have to do anything except for get the kits in, give them to your patients. Everything else is taken care of, from education to Instructions to everything else. So if you're not doing it at all, definitely should. In fact, I talked to some people who are doing it and they actually asked me that, seriously, there are some chiropractors out there that don't give any recommendations for home or don't give their patients a home care kit. And I said, yeah, there is. Secondly, if your home care program is maybe half existent or maybe overly complicated, this might be something that actually simplifies your, your system. It makes your life easier because of the fact that it's, it runs itself and that your patients, it makes it so easy for your patients to see why lifetime spinal care is so important.

It's good. I want to talk about the next piece then, which is the 6 5th side of the Rubik's Cube doctaber, and that is training. You brought it up quite a bit today. And I know this is something you have a huge passion about, which is training other chiropractors and training their teams in this area. Can you talk about the training? You. You basically just told me it's done for you. Right. All you gotta do is order the kits and give them the people. It's done for you. But can you talk a little bit about the importance of being trained and how training is the key to effectiveness? You talk about simple, easy to use and effective. There's an effectiveness component of this that comes with training. Can you talk about the training that the patient get, but also the doctors and their staff?

Sure. Like if you want your patients to be more compliant, which by the way, the statistics of compliance raises all ships, like everything else will increase in your practice if you can just improve compliance, like patients doing what you're asking them to do. And so when we go back to that study where those two groups both got exercise instructions, but one group actually got explained the benefits of the exercises and why they should do it, and that group was 60% more compliant. Well, I've noticed and I've had. We all have CAS that come and go and over the last several years, you know, I don't know how many, maybe a dozen CAs that have come and gone through the three or four clinics that we've been running. So I've seen where they're teaching patients how to use their home care kits and they understand the instructions. Right. So they're like, oh, lay on this. Start with five minutes, build up to 20. Oh, you know, do it like this. Okay, great, thanks. Here is your bag. Well then you watch that exact same CA after they finish the certified spinal hygienist program. And. And you just almost have to pull them away trying to convince this person, look, do this and your life will be better. Like, this will help prevent degeneration in the base of your neck, the most common cause of degeneration in the world. Said forward posture. And you're going to be fighting that with you. Have your family do this, have your spouse do this every day and don't miss it. And watch. It's going to be amazing. It's going to help you maintain all the great correction that you're getting in here in the office. See that difference? That's from training and understanding. And that's why that could be such a big something that might be hard to measure, but such a big improvement in your office if you send your staff through the certified spinal hygienist program.

So while we're on this point, I know you and I talked about this before the we started recording today's podcast, which was, do you have anything you want to give away to our awesome CEO audience? And you said you did. And when you told me what it was, I was like, really?

Are you sure?

That seems like very generous. That's pretty awesome. Can you share with the listeners today what. What you're including, what you're giving away and then how they can take advantage of that?

Sure. So our certified spinal Hygienist program is $997 tuition per person, but I want to give away to your whole team. Somebody can bring their whole team through the program on. I think the next. The next program might be in October. You can look@spinal hygienist.com if you want to see the dates of the next program. But anytime in the future when you get. If you're the winner, I want you to come in, bring your whole team through the program and just see how amazing it is.

So the way that you can be in the running for winning this, which is really generous of you, doctor, is to email you. Right? You said Dr. Tabor@spinal spinal hygienist.com you can correct.

Correct. Dr. Tabor. Dr. T A B O R@spinal hygienist.com and just send me your name and maybe clinic info. What I'm going to do is I'll take your name and I'll put it through a random name generator or and pick somebody and then I'll send you an email back if you're a winner.

Yeah. So please do that right away because Dr. Tabor's gonna need to make a decision pretty quickly here. Whenever this podcast comes out. So if you guys just, just email him today at, you know, Dr. Tabor spinalhygenist.com and shoot him an email with your name, clinic info. Just please do that right away because honestly, you're going to miss out on this awesome opportunity and I can't imagine everything that you just said if that's all included. Man, my CAS to be rockstar cas, my docs are rockstar docs. Me to be the best doctor and leader that I can be. Keeping this stuff in the forefront of your mind. This information is just the key. Last question is about Energy Doc. And we say as a CEO, you're the chief Energy officer and what we do is we marshal the limited resources of time, energy, focus and money. Can you talk about that in terms of prioritization? Like what's important now? We talked about what's important next. Ultimately, we talked earlier in the vision question about 97% adoption in the dental space for some sort of dental hygiene. And we are far from that in the chiropractic profession. Can you talk about energy, what's important now and next? And ultimately, when you look ahead at our profession in the next three to five years and really where do we need to focus as far as prioritization? Because I think you already nailed it. But if you want to repeat anything you said or emphasize anything you said, this is, this is that moment.

So if you remember earlier when I talked about the industrial revolution bringing sugars into our diet, early 1900s dentists back then, basically their job was just to pull teeth. And they were busy, they had busy practices pulling teeth when they were, when they were rotten. But because of all of the, the stress from sugar and the cavities that were happening at younger and younger ages, dentists were just, they were hustling, they were busy. And all of a sudden there was this outside influence on, on culture that, that needed dentistry to step up. And that's actually when dentistry catapulted into the second largest healthcare profession in the world because they stood, solved the problem that was affecting the masses. Fast forward to today. We have a very similar phenomenon going on with technology. Just over the last 20, 30 years, there's been an influx of people sitting in front of a screen for 10, 12, 15 hours a day. And now they're starting when they're 2 years old in front of a screen and iPads. And then when they're kids, they have cell phones and they're in these postures. And so just like sugar caused us an increase of cavities in the early 1900s, and it catapulted dentistry into the second large healthcare professional in the world. I believe right now is our opportunity as chiropractors to step up. And if we do and we, we solve this problem and we teach people that there is a way to prevent this degeneration from happening, then we can become that health care profession that we should become. And I could see that happening in the next decade, right, that we grow 10 times our size, if we can understand that. Look, we help you take care of your spine and nervous system for life. We help you prevent degenerative disc disease and that here's how you do it. Because we're the experts. We teach families how to do this. So right now it starts with building that into your clinic and having an educational system. Because you can't teach everybody one on one. You can't even teach everybody one to many. You got to have that automated program that helps you to reach everybody. Once you've, once you have this message. Now we just need to get it out there.

Good.

So what I love about your program is you. It was created by a, a chiropractor who's a CEO of a business, who's running a business. Multiple practices created, four chiropractors who are hopefully CEOs of their business and hopefully running successful practices as well. Like you created this for yourself. Like you're scratching your own itch, right? A lot of times that's how a lot of business. This is stars. Like I had to. It's the issue. I had to solve it. So I solved it for myself. Well, guess what, guys? He solved it for all of us. And that's the power of what Dr. Tabor is doing. And now he's going above and beyond by creating certification. So there's going to be greater certainty and conviction and education of your team. And again, it continues to take all of that off of you. It's going to drive retention, it's going to drive better results, and it's going to drive revenue. The big thing at the end of the day, guys, how do we figure out a way to help more people and make a bigger impact, make a bigger income? This is how you do it. And this is right with keeping your main thing, the main thing, the main thing, your pivot foot planted on the principal and on chiropractic, where there's all sorts of other bells and whistles that are out there, things you could be doing. This is something you should be doing. Every single patient needs to be accountable for their role in their spine's health and their spines healing. And then, honestly, the public beyond that should be aware of this as well. And this can be a catalyst that leads people right to your front door and where they're calling you, saying, hey, I need a spinal hygienist for my spine. I need. Oh, they're called a chiropractor. Oh, I just thought I was a spinal hygienist. I could just see, you know, the world just turning to this. So, Dr. Tabor, I appreciate your bigness of your vision, your conviction. I thank you that you continue to beat the drum and just stay the course, man. So I'm just going to encourage you as a brother just to stay. Stay the course. Keep going. Don't stop. Even if the. The mountain seems hard and high and it seems like we're losing our footing, you're not gaining traction. Stay the course. Keep going. We're partnered with you at the Remarkable practice for a reason, because we believe strongly and wholeheartedly in what you're doing, and we believe it's going to help our chiropractors that we get to serve and their patients, who they get to serve and the communities that we all get to serve have a bigger impact. So appreciate you, brother. Thank you for the great work you're doing. You guys know how to get them. It's Dr. Tabor@spinalhygienist.com. go ahead and put your name in there for the to get into the drawing for the certified spinal hygienist program for your entire team. Dr. Haber, thanks for joining me today and taking the time to be with our amazing audience.

Thanks for having me, brother. It's been an honor. You're awesome.

Please stick around for more business insights from this week's bonus interview with our remarkable success partner dedicated to helping you more successfully help more people. Enjoy.

Hey, Remarkables, it's Dr. Kahl here today. I am super stoked to be online with doctors Andrew Wells and Chad Wolner from Simplified Functional Medicine. I'm super stoked to talk to you today, guys. It's an honor to have you here. We've got an amazing CEO audience here with us today, and some of them may not know who you are. I know a lot of the people that are listening are going to be familiar with you, but some of them may not. Could you please just maybe introduce yourselves, give us a sense of who the experts in the room, are, tell us a bit about your story and what has led us ultimately to being here today together.

Awesome.

Well, thanks for having us on. We really appreciate it. Love the TRP group. And we are chiropractors. So we developed Simplified Functional Medicine, which is a group that serves chiropractors in helping bolt on a functional medicine practice to their office. And one of the reasons that we exist is because we recognize as doctors of root cause, a lot of people say DC stands for Dr. Of cause. We recognize that a lot of our patients are dealing with issues outside of the classic like musculoskeletal problem. Now I recognize that chiropractors listening to this will probably say, well, chiropractic is not just about musculoskeletal. Totally get that. But we also, based on our research, we found that 70% of your active patient base, our active patient bases as chiropractors. These patients also have other things like hormone imbalances, immune system problems, metabolic issues that sometimes don't fully respond to chiropractic care. And Chad and I got into functional medicine, first and foremost out of personal necessity. And I'll let Chad share his story, but I'll make mine really brief. Back in 2018, we were hit head on in a car accident, almost died, broke my neck in three places, had a traumatic brain injury, and thankfully still alive. But it was through functional medicine and a lot of the protocols that we use that I was able to get my life back. And so after that traumatic brain injury, I had really severe brain fog, massive fatigue issues, autoimmune problems that popped up and just really wasn't responding to kind of traditional chiropractic care. And so I got into functional medicine, number one, to help with my own issues, but also recognizing that we got into our profession because we really want to solve our patients health issues. So that's kind of the, the genesis of all this. And I'll let Chad share his story briefly.

Yeah, fairly similar. Mine starts with me and my wife. My wife was struggling with a variety of different chronic health issues over the years. We had taken her to specialist after specialist after specialist. No real answers. And out of just sheer frustration and desperation, I went back to school for functional medicine because I'm like, I need to find answers for my wife. She was eventually diagnosed with thyroid cancer and dealt with all the fallout of a full thyroidectomy and all those things. And I went into school, learned functional medicine, got excited, started using a lot of the protocols to help her, and made a significant impact for the better for her. And immediately I got the brilliant idea that this will be perfect for bolting into my practice. Not realizing that helping your wife is one thing for free, working with patients and figuring out some sort of a business model. Associated with that is a completely different skill set and set of tools and set of problems that needed solving. And so, needless to say, it did not work very well. And so I shelved it. But those years that I shelved it during that period of time created a massive amount of friction and frustration for me because I saw patients who would come in, who would express frustration with the current health situation that they were in, knowing full well that I. I knew I had the clinical acumen and the clinical skills and the academic, but I didn't have the actual solution from a business standpoint to deliver it without it completely derailing and disrupting the practice. This is where I started to see, from a CEO lens, the last thing the world CEOs need is, yet again, another job. But they need to have solutions in place for their patients and for their team that can be deployed. And so Andrew and I, around this time, met. He flew out to where I'm at here in Meridian, and we became very fast friends. And I kind of knew about his business, he knew about mine. One day, out of the blue, I called him up and said, hey, I've got an idea for a functional medicine program. He said, that's a dumb idea. I said, hear me out for 45 minutes. I said, just give me 45 minutes. Let me pitch you via Zoom, just like we're doing here. And 45 minutes later, I'm like, if it's a dumb idea, we can scrap it. And he's like, okay, fair enough. He's like, I'll give you an open mind. And so I presented it to him, what was kind of the genesis of simplified functional medicine. At the end of that Zoom call, he's like, this is a great idea. And really what we had done was we had solved for a lot of the common constraints that CEOs run into in their practices with regard to not just functional medicine, but just in practice in general. That, I think will resonate with a lot of the TRP docs. And so I'll hand it back over to Andrew, and he can kind of explain a little bit about how we've solved what, number one, what the big constraints are and how we've solved those constraints.

I think most CEOs and most chiropractors understand the benefit of functional medicine and what it does for the patient, but the friction comes here as chiropractors. It sounds complex. I've heard it involves a lot of lab testing and complex protocols and all stuff I don't understand, or they're concerned that they're going to get stuck in a consultation room with a patient for an hour, overwhelm their staff, have to go back to school. And what I want the CEOs listening to this to understand is that. But that's why we created sfm. And I get a lot of flack for saying this, but it's true. And we've seen this. We have the evidence data to prove it. Getting sick people well is not difficult. It's really, really easy. Now, you can over complicate it if you want to, but having now worked with hundreds of chiropractors, thousands of patients, the clinical stuff is actually pretty darn easy now. And we make it easy. And what we also do is we make the delivery of functional medicine also very easy. We feel very strongly that chiropractic should always be the main thing in your practice. But by bolting on a really very streamlined, organized and simple system that delivers the benefits of functional medicine can help not only on the patient outcome side, but also help on the revenue side, as functional medicine is an extremely profitable bolt on or add on addition to the practice. And so for any doc thinking like, oh man, that would be so cool to have functional medicine, but it sounds really complex. That's why simplified functional medicine exists, is to cut through the complexity and the chaos so that we can make things really simple.

That's like music to my ears. You know, as a coach, a TRP coach, I know that our CEOs need less jobs, not more jobs. They need to simplify, not create more complexity. So what you guys are saying is just awesome for me and for all of us coaches to hear, and for our clients too. So as CEOs, we make business decisions, obviously, right? And our CEOs always want to know, and you mentioned the returns, the return on investment. They always want to know what is it they're going to get in return for their investment. So could you just share maybe some specific details about that for us and for our team here?

Absolutely. And when we think of roi, I want to think of it in two different aspects. The financial roi, which I'll talk about in a minute, and also the time roi. So the timeline is often the one that nobody ever discusses. And so if it takes you a ton of man hours to deliver something that's profitable and it may not make sense for your business. And so we've designed simplified functional medicine to be team driven so that a CA or a health coach or somebody in your office that really has a passion for helping people can run all of this. So it doesn't require any of the CEOs bandwidth and time to run. And I think, think of all things time and money, I would say that that is the most valuable thing that we give in return is less bandwidth from the CEO.

Can I add one? One. One important detail too, real quick. I want to make this distinction because some might be thinking, okay, great, I've heard this before from other companies and what the deployment looks like is here's a bunch of crap for your team to do, go figure it out. And that's not, and that's not an effective strategy. That's a recipe for mutiny, right? Where all of a sudden your team's like, thanks, Dr. So and so, you're an idiot. Now we have to do this. We have also done this in such a way that we're right there in the trenches supporting the team. So we'll train the team right along with them. This is not a here you go, you invest money with us and then you're off to the races or your team is off to the races to figure it out for the doc. Right. We support, we train every step of the way ensuring that they get the support that they need. So I think that's a really important distinction too to add in there, Andrew, that we want to make sure is, yes, the CEO isn't going to have a whole laundry list of things to do, but also it's not just going to be a hand it off to the team and let them figure it out. We're right there to support them.

Yeah, absolutely. And then financial ROI from a money investment. If we can help docs find six people this year to help that have a chronic health issue, that's like the break even point on our program and services and coaching. So it's a pretty low bar that we've set. Most CEOs I talk to say, I can think of six people off the top of my head that have hormone issues and metabolic and digestive problems. And so it's a pretty quick ROI. The average is about 178k in additional revenue to a chiropractic practice. Now, average is average, right? What we found from TRP docs is that they're usually a bit above the average because they're striving for excellence in all different areas in practice. And so a lot of the docs we work with make more than that. And we have some offices that are doing six figures a month just in functional medicine on top of their chiropractic collection. So you can really make it as profitable as you want. And it's a low volume game that we're playing. It's not like you have to add 400 patient visits a week. You can hit those numbers in a very, very low volume way because the plans that our docs are offering are quite profitable and they're easy to manage.

Awesome. Sounds like a very well thought out system. I'm curious about the onboarding component of that system, just time frame wise, like where someone signs up, what's that on ramp look like?

Yeah, I'll handle that. We have a. And I'll speak because Andrew's typically involved in that process, along with our head of coaching, Dr. Wadier, who's amazing. Our goal is to get the practitioner up and running within 30 days. And. And that's on. We ran the numbers early on and what we found was 27.2 days was the average timeframe it took to get a practitioner up and running in the process. And so from a mile up, the onboarding process is intended to be built around keeping momentum going. If the process took six months to a year to get a doc up and running, you might as well kiss it goodbye because docs busy, docs lose momentum. And so we need to get this up and running as quick as possible. And patients are waiting. So anything you want to add to that, Andrew? Sorry, I didn't mean to commandeer.

No, you said it better than I was going to say it. Thank you.

I like that. It's. That's efficient, that's great.

Yeah, yeah.

So I'm also curious, you know, if you look forward, considering what's important next, like for the profession as a whole, as you look into the challenges that we're facing as a profession and as you assess the needs of the profession going forward in the future, how is it that simplified functional medicine is preparing docs for that? How are you preparing people for the future?

Yeah, I love that question. It's a smart question and I want to use some statistics here. So if you look at our profession as chiropractors over the last 125 years, roughly, we have about 62,000 chiropractic practices in operation in the U.S. now, when you look at functional medicine, if you go back 15 years ago to 2010, there were about 10,000 practices that were operational in the U.S. fast forward till today, we're recording this. In 2025, there are 52,000 functional medicine practices, which means functional medicine grows at 940% per year, year over year, compared to about roughly 5% growth industry wide for chiropractic. And the reason this matters is as the whole reason for businesses to exist is to solve problems. And the functional medicine problem is a huge. Let me back up. Chronic health is a massive epidemic. Medicine isn't fixing it, pharmaceuticals aren't fixing it, medical doctors aren't fixing it. And so chiropractors have and will continue to lead the revolution in health.

Health.

We're just giving patients what they're asking for and what they're needing to get to the next level of health. And so when it comes to an opportunity, I don't know any other niches within chiropractic that offer that kind of explosive growth industry wide. And we feel strongly that that trend is going to continue at least for the next foreseeable future.

I want to add to that too, real quick as well. You know, the obvious elephant in the room is AI. And so for a lot of practitioners, they're wondering what that's going to look like in terms of the future. We have invested a substantial amount of time and money in trying to stay current and relevant with our finger on the pulse of what that means to us and specifically to functional medicine. And here's what we have found. If you are practicing or plan on practicing, kind of the conventional method and approach to functional medicine, which we define as no offense, but largely dysfunctional because most of that is lots of expensive lab tests and lots of expensive supplements that is, quote, unquote, conventional functional medicine. There's just one major problem with that as AI is swallowing that up right now. Reason being is consumers can go straight to chat, GPT or GROK or whatever model, and they can complain about their symptoms. It's going to list off exactly what labs they need to run, and then they go and they get the labs. Well, okay, what do I do with these labs? I don't know anything. I'm not a doctor. Again, patients are figuring out right now as we speak how to upload those into AI. AI is basically going to replace that functional medicine practitioner and then it's going to list off. Here's where you get all the supplements. Lab companies and supplement companies are cutting practitioners out because of tools like this. So that. So the thing is, is I don't want to sound completely pessimistic, but what we have done and what we have realized is where the rubber hits the road is where the value is. Meaning we could list off all the things, quote, unquote, that patients need to do to get Better the lab tests, the supplements and everything. But one thing we know for certain is you're never gonna supplement your way out of a chronic health issue. And so what that means is lifestyle change, habit formation, motivation, connection, and community accountability, all of those kind of intangible things that AI is not going to do, that the practitioner and their team and the community that they create, that they can channel that patient into, that's what happens. What SFM has done is we have created all of that in a turnkey system so that there's more meat on the bone, so to speak. Not just expensive lab tests and supplements, but there's an actual curriculum, there's actual science behind motivation and change and habit formation and all that stuff. That, that is really the long term, that's the good stuff. And then a community that patients and practitioners can plug into with what we've created. And so all signs tell us that that is what the future of kind of AI proofing your practice is going to look like and is doing. And that's where we've gone all in on.

Awesome. I love the heart, I love the forward thinking that you guys have done in that regard. That's awesome. So, you guys, some incredible pearls here with us. I know that everyone on here is going to appreciate hearing them. I just want to make sure that our crew knows how to get in touch with you. What the, what is the best way for listeners to reach out, get in contact, or take the next step with you guys if they're interested.

It.

Yeah, I would say to look at our website. It's www.simplified functionalmedicine.com. and if you're. If this is something that you've considered adding plugging in or want help with, that would be the kind of the, the first kind of direct path to reach out to us. And you can find all of our contact information and you can set up a discovery call with me, Dr. Wells, or if you're just curious to learn more about our approach and philosophy, we have an awesome podcast. So if you're listening to this podcast trp, we have a podcast called the Simplified Functional Medicine Podcast and you can listen. We have 70 some episodes there and kind of a deeper dive into all the things we teach and the why behind what we do for docs that are interested.

Awesome. Cool. I know there's going to be a lot of people reaching out, so the phones will be burning up, I'm sure. And thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Our listeners do too. See you next time.

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