5 Neuroscience Secrets for Better Coaching with Susan Britton

Welcome to beyond you'd why Podcast, where we go beyond just talking about your why and actually help you discover and then live your why. You see, we believe that knowing your why, that driving force behind every decision you make and every action you take, is the essential first step to really knowing yourself. It allows you to move forward faster and have a bigger impact. If you're already a fan of the show, then you know that every week we talk about one of the nine whys and then we introduce you to somebody with that why so you can see how their why has played out in their life. This show will be more powerful for you if you've already discovered your why. If you still need to do that, head over to whyinstitute.com and discover your why today. It'll only take you about five minutes. Now let's meet today's guest.

This week we're going to be talking about the why of better way to find a better way and share it. So if this is your why, then you are the ultimate innovator. You are constantly seeking better ways to do everything. You find yourself wanting to improve virtually anything by making it better. You also desire to share your improvement with the world. You constantly ask yourself questions like what if we tried this differently? What if we did this another way? How can we make this better? You contribute to the world with better processes and systems while operating under the motto I'm often pleased but never satisfied. You are excellent at associating, which means you are adept at taking ideas or systems from one industry or discipline and applying them to another, always with the ultimate goal of improving something. So today I have a great guest for you. Her name is Susan Britton. She is the founder and president of the Academies for Coaching. Using her why a Better Way? She's passionate about finding even better ways to train and equip coaches. She's done that through a focus on the brain and has spent the past 10 years simplifying key neuroscience concepts that help people make meaningful change. She has a long history of finding even better ways, as evidenced by her seven published books, her curation of hundreds of neuroscience studies and her ICF accredited coaching curriculum or with memorable models and brain friendly tools. While at the helm of the Academies, her coaching education company has helped thousands of leadership and career coaches across six continents to add coaching credentials to their approach so that they too can find even better ways to simplify change and contribute to working to work cultures that help people thrive. Susan, welcome to the podcast.

Thank you. I'm so grateful to be here and Curious what we'll discover even in two, two better ways together here.

Exactly. We'll be, we'll be improving what each other says the whole time. Right?

Dangerous.

Yes, we can be dangerous. So where are you currently? You know, just tell our audience. Where do you live right now? Where's your. Where is the academies at?

Well, we are global in that we service all of our coaches in a virtual model. And some, some do sometimes do some on site work, but primarily global. I'm based in California. I spend my summers in Fresno, California and my winters on a little golf course in a little town around Palm Springs area. So I get out of the fog of Fresno and I go and I enjoy Palm Springs.

Well, that's awesome. Well, let's let everybody get to know you. And so, so let's go further back. So where were you born and where did you grow up? And, and what were you like growing up?

So I was born 50 miles west of where I'm sitting right now. I actually have home base here in Fresno, but Firebach, California was where I was born and raised. And that is a tiny little farming town. When I grew up there, there were fewer than 2,000 people.

And it was very homogenous, shall we say. And so that was my experience of growing up. I. Yeah.

And so what kind of farming did you do?

So my dad had quite. Well, when you say farming, many people think you had some vineyards or some corn or whatever. He had quite a large operation. It was like 10,000 acres of cotton, tomatoes, cantaloupe, alfalfa. And he had the largest dehydration facility actually in the world at one point. And so they would grow thousands of acres of alfalfa and then they would dehydrate it down into these little pellets or these little cubes for livestock that they fed livestock. And so I can. I'm curious about the better way because my dad and his uncle were the ones that, that came up with this model. So it was kind of interesting to like. Is part of this better way thing a jet lake thing or.

Yeah, well, that's a good question.

Well, let's, let's keep going and we'll see what we come up with. And so did you, did your dad have you out there working in the farm or were you more in school and not spending as much time on the farm or what was that like for you?

You know, I was sort of immersed in the environment and the culture of farming. And I, I had a very agrarian work ethic that I was exposed to. So it was seven days a week. And I recall that even though I didn't work on, on the ranch, my dad gave me little secretarial jobs like during the summer when I was in junior high school. But my very first position was at a cantaloupe packing shed when I was old enough to drive, because I had to drive to my little work in the next little tiny town, which was smaller than Fireball. And my first job was being an office assistant inside this little tiny packing house that we had to move to in 24 hours because we were ready to launch. And somehow the new facility got burned down. Later we found out the union was not happy with the way things were negotiated and all of a sudden the shed was gone. So we had to go to this dilapidated shed and work there. And so I share that because I. I wonder how much of my seven day a week, 12, 14, 16 hour days, might have contributed to that resilience and that perseverance that sort of fools into when you've got a better way. Why?

Yep. Yeah, I could see that. That's a great question. You're kind of touching on a few things as we're going along, which is is your why God given or is it environmental and what parts is it both? Is it part one? You know, and, and that's a tough question, but we can get to that in a little bit and see what we come up with. So fast forward us to high school. So if we were to have seen you in high school, what would we have seen?

You would have seen Susan. Overachiever.

Okay.

Right. I had very, I want to say proud parents, but I want to say it in the best possible use of the term. I had very proud parents and family who said you are to be a role model, you are to set an example. Just because some other family or some other kids don't get all A's or, you know, do go the extra mile, doesn't mean that we don't in this family. And so there was pressure and. But you know, within the context of what was normal for my family. So co valedictorian, first chair in music, you know, all of the firsts.

So was that.

How the rest of your. Do you have brothers and sisters?

I have two brothers. They worked pretty hard too. Yeah.

It was an expectation that was put in your head that this is how we do things.

Absolutely. Yeah.

Interesting. Because that's the same thing I had growing up. Yeah. With my parents. It's not whether you're going to college or not, it's which one Are you going to. And, yeah, same. Very similar. So we would have seen an overachiever. And then, okay, you graduate from high school and then off to. Where are you off to after that? Where'd you go to school?

College. I went to University of the Pacific, and they have a fantastic, well respected conservatory of music there. And I was always a great musician. And I laugh at this because I later transitioned and I was a career coach. But my mother chose my career for me, and I do appreciate that because, you know, I was busy having fun and working hard. But she said, what if you combined your interest in people and actually therapy? Because I always was very attuned to how people were responding. You know, if they look like they were upset, if they were happy, I just could really kind of zone in on that sort of thing. So she found that there was a career called music therapy. And so it was a perfect match, really, for me with my musicality and my interest in behavior and people.

And so off to UOP with a major in. In music and therapy.

And.

What was college like for you?

Fun. Easy.

Did you. Do you feel like you learned a lot or just had more fun?

Okay, so it was fun because I was away from my parents. Yeah. Yeah. Bless you, mom and dad. Love you. Yeah, right. But so there wasn't quite the. The drive there. And so I got to maybe explore and have a little more fun. But I also worked very hard because a degree in music is not. I mean, it might sound easy, but it is not easy. There's history, there's theory, there's practice, there's performance, there's attending a million concerts and things. So it was a demanding schedule, but I was good at demanding. And so I just. I also added the fun piece to it.

Okay, so again, that sounds like my college experience as well. And you graduated with your degree, and then what was your path?

So then I went and did.

A practicum in music therapy at Dallas County Mental Health. So I moved from California to Texas. Dallas, Texas, and went to work doing music therapy in inpatient psychiatric settings. I also worked with outpatient peds and children. I worked with outpatient adults. So did a lot of different music therapy kinds of things that didn't last all that long because it was about the time that a bunch of funding was getting cut for those kinds of programs. And so people who are much senior to me were getting cut. And of course I got cut. And so I thought, well, maybe there's not a lot of career security in this. Wandered about a bit, came back to California and really floundered with trying to figure out what I was going to do. I remember taking a stock brokerage test for one of the houses and I didn't do very well on it. So like, well, that's kind of out. And I had always had really fast fingers and typing skills because I played flute and piano. So like 130 words a minute for typing, no problem, right. I'm really good at that. So I ended up getting a job as a secretary in a commercial real estate office. And I'm dating myself because I hardly ever call them secretaries even anymore. And then for a legal firm, I was an executive secretary for a legal firm principal. And I hired a word processing person for the office. And that was back in the days when you actually had a separate little machine called a word processor and all of that. But we became friends, the two of us, and she was the one who said, I want to start a resume writing business. And so we did that together. And I think that's where I can really start thinking about where my better way started showing up in the way that I wrote resumes. Because I was really good at it, really good at it. I, I got creative, I studied people that were also super good at it and then put my own little twist on things and ended up with, you know, books that were in Barnes and Noble, Noble nationwide, because of how good the, the resume work was.

And so your interest wasn't necessarily in resumes, it was just in doing something different maybe, or outside of the taking your taking your skills and applying it to something.

Yeah, like, so when you talk about you, you find better processes or systems or some of those things. I was good at better ideas, I think. And because I had, you know, remember there's that therapy background because I had the ability to sit down and create trust with people. I could pull stuff out of people to interview people to get the resume material. And then I had great English writing, grammar, syntax, all of a creative writing skills that I meshed together. And so that's what allowed me to be as good as I was at that. But I think I got my better way kind of in the way. And I'll tell a quick story about that. So, you know, I'm in the coaching space now and the way that I got there is that I had, no kidding here, like in about the course of one to two weeks, I had people resume clients who came back to me and they said, Susan, I need my resume updated. Remember you wrote it a couple of years ago. I got that job so fast I hardly even had to interview. I mean, they just love my resume, but I hate my job. And then somebody else came in and told me the same story. But I hate my job. But I hate my job. And so I thought, maybe I'm getting like the cart in front of the horse or maybe I should learn more about how people find work that they really enjoy doing. And that was the time when professional coaching was really starting to come around. I discovered that, and I'm like, oh, my gosh, this is what I was put on the planet to do.

What about coaching made you feel that way?

So I'm going to tell you my middle name and explain why I'm telling you my middle name in response to your question. My middle name is Elaine. And I've always been kind of fascinated by names and naming and Elaine has some roots, etymology wise in enlightenment and unfolding and light. And I have always been fascinated to watch both myself and watch other people kind of see the light bulbs go on and get it. And I thought, oh, my gosh, I could get paid. I could get paid for doing what I love and seeing other people benefit in the process. This is too good to be true. So it was just a really holistic, like, wow, ton of. I was enlightened when I thought, oh, my gosh, this. This is what I'm here for. So it's like they're finding a better way to believe, to think, to behave, to feel. And I get to watch it and be a part of it and support that. I mean, it just doesn't get any better.

Again, very similar to my story. I mean, that's exactly how the why.

Came about. I saw the lights come on when people discovered their why, and I was like, man, this is an addiction. And. Right. I did it for thousands of people for free. So similar. Okay, so now you're helping people figure out what they really want to do and then creating their resume with them so that they actually get the job. And how long did that last? How long did you do that?

So I wrote resumes and then did career coaching for probably 10 years. And when I discovered coaching, I immediately jumped in, started getting some training. And there really. It was early in the industry and there really wasn't. There's one other person doing some career coaching, but I thought, I will just start a career coach training school. I didn't quite know what I was doing, but thank goodness I had fantastic mentors and people that would stay up in the middle of the night reading and correcting my curriculum and Guiding me and helping me find, you know, better ways. So that started right around the Y2K because I remember clearly, you know, just a moment there when the, the business was actually turning into a coaching education version.

Yeah, it's, it was a lot different then then it is now. Right. It wasn't accepted, it wasn't quite this as common or people didn't have, didn't think about coaches for things outside of sports.

Right? Yeah, you say you're a coach and they go like, oh, which sport? Right, yeah, so you're right. It was kind of new and maybe that's the better way coming out even then that like, I bought into something that was still early in its infancy, industry wise.

Okay, so you write your first course or create your first curriculum back around 2000 and. And then what happened after that? Do you keep making more courses or did you, what was your path?

Yeah, so just kept refining, refining. And then people kept knocking on the door saying, well, can you give me something like this in leadership? And at first I resisted, and then I teamed up with some people who knew more than I did. I think that's a theme that I often, you know, I don't think you get anywhere without teaming up with people who know more than you. And you don't get better ways until you do that. And you know, sometimes I feel like no thought that I have is an original thought. I mean, they say there's nothing new under the sun. Maybe that's true, maybe that's not true. But I do stand on the shoulders of giants who mentored me, who thought differently. So. And I, you know, I, I had the, the better way. Why? And yet I think I was also, I very much invested in myself so that I could continue to train, I could continue to learn, I could continue to make things better. Then, then I discovered neuroscience. So that was maybe about 10 years ago. And it was kind of again, early in neuroscience was like, what is that? People didn't know. But I'll tell you the reason I, I really was fascinated by it. Other than the fact that I got really great grades in, in college in my sciences, anatomy and physiology and that kind of stuff. I was fascinated by that. Probably would have become a doctor if I had gotten maybe some different direction, but it doesn't matter. I, I love where I am. Um, but I felt like coaching was seen by a lot of people as just kind of woo woo ish. And I knew that you had to have the people piece of it. You had to have the humane relationship piece of things. And you also had to have the hard science, analytical, logical, rational strategy piece. And I would work with a ton of executives, coached a ton of C suite VP executives who wouldn't want to touch the. The relational side. And I knew in my heart of hearts that that was so important. And so when neuroscience started coming around, I felt like, my gosh, I've been vindicated. We now know what happens to your thinking capacity and your relating capacity when you're in that sort of red zone, fight, flight, freeze state. So I was fascinated. Not only because it made me feel like I was right.

A little bit hubris or, you know, whatever, but I'll admit it. But I was fascinated that I just thought, okay, if this helps people buy into coaching to understand what's really happening in your brain, to be able to affect change, then, wow, this is absolutely a better way.

What was your introduction to neuroscience? What happened? If you can remember back to when you first heard about it, learned about it, saw it, and then you're like, man, that's what I got to know. Do you remember that moment?

So I'm trying to remember how I got connected with a gentleman named Tony Pottle. He's based in Dallas, and he was doing a lot of work with David Rock, who also did a ton of early work, you know, kind of leadership work in. In the neuroscience space. So I studied. So here's another example of studying one on one with a mentor. I studied with him and just was fascinated. I mean, I think the interest level when you just say, I can't believe how interested I am in this, and then studied with a couple of other gentlemen, Dr. Larkin, Dr. Johnson.

Just had a, you know, a deeper dive into all of that. And then along the way, immersed myself. I mean, I. I read neuroscience clinical research for fun.

Hey, before we get there, define for everybody what neuroscience is.

It is understanding the brain, body activity, biology that's going on inside. And it's not just in your brain. Like your central nervous system goes throughout with nerves going everywhere. And in my. The way we phrase it at the academies when we're teaching coaches, is that if we understand two simple things about neuroscience, if you understand the neurochemistry that's happening inside your body, in your client's body, and those would be things like all the dopamine and cortisol, you know, whether we're in what we call the red zone, fight flight, cortisol's amped up, or the blue zone, parasympathetic nervous system. You've got a little more calm connect, you're alert, but you're able to have that full prefrontal cortex engaged. So if you can have an understanding of the neurochemistry plus an understanding of the neurocircuitry that's in your brain, which, which is how you make meaning, how you make sense of things, how you interpret things, how you perceive things, so you can be aware of what is that neurocircuitry doing to the way that I think, feel, and show up, and what is it doing for my client?

Those are just two really simple ways of being able to then incorporate those principles into coaching.

So you learned about that and thought, man, if I know this, then what I've been saying is valid. There's more. There's more depth to it, more validity to it.

Yeah, there's. There's additional credibility, certainly. And more than anything, there's additional understanding. So, you know, taking all of curating hundreds of neuroscience studies and trying to figure out, you know, I'm overwhelming myself. I certainly don't want to overwhelm the coaches that we train.

But at the same time, if you can then boil it down and simplify it, then you can take some of that. So sometimes I get concerned because I realize neuroscience is a heavy, complex, crazy, sophisticated subject, and it's. It's easy to say something, and then people will listen to it and interpret that they don't know what they're talking about. I mean, it's a lot more sophisticated than that. Well, yes, it is. At the same time, we don't have to know how a microwave works to be able to use the microwave. Like, you know that if you do a few certain things, you're going to get a certain result. I think you can say that the same is true for neuroscience. If you can do a few certain things, like understand, is my client in the red zone? What do I need to do to be able to connect with them? It's not my job to get them out of there, but is my job to stay in the blue zone, which is at that CalmConnect connection, curious space. If you can do that, then you've got a much better presence to be able to. Then go back to, why, client? Why do you want this? What could that look like? Now you're getting another part of the brain engaged to understand what happens when you start visioning the future, your best self, and then also thinking about, how do I now change these behaviors that I have lived with for decades? Like, if I'm going to go to this new place in my. My life I'm going to have to deconstruct and let a few neural connections die and I'm going to have to grow some new ones as well. So don't get me started.

I know.

So for those of you that are listening.

Susan's why is to find a better way and share it. Like we talked about, how she does that is by making sense of the complex and challenging, solving problems, figuring things out, and ultimately what she brings is a way to contribute, add value, have an impact in the lives of, of those around her. And so how does that feel to you, Susan, when you hear that?

Well, I will have to admit, so I've been doing coaching work for 30 years now, and when you introduce me to that process, I'm like, oh my gosh. Yeah, I so see it. And it's so clear and so simple.

And yet also can expand out in so many ways that it feels very authentic and true for me.

That's awesome. And it make. And now when we listen to your story, your life from the perspective of your why, how and what, it all starts to make sense. Of course that's where you would go, oh, of course you would do that. And well, now I understand why you would do that. And so it's, it's really helps to put things into perspective for those around you as well. And so now you have created an understanding of your leadership coaching, your career coaching, using neuroscience. And then where did you take it from there?

So.

I gave for myself, I had a big birthday recently and I gave to myself a master's degree program at a very prestigious university insead in Fontainebleau, France. And I gave myself the gift of going to that program and enrolling in a master's. And I took nine, eight, eight trips over to France, logged over a hundred thousand miles and paid my dues on the clapping credits and learned and added onto all that I've been doing around the neuroscience piece with a system psychodynamic element. So now understanding the brain in kind of a different way, in a deeper way, and understanding that there's a lot of unconscious stuff that we have no clue that we are doing in terms of how we think, how we behave, what our values are. And so right now I'm in the middle, as you're speaking to me, I'm in the middle of doing my final research and my thesis and you know, looking at that so well, I'm not sure where that's going to go, but I know that I'm going to find a better way.

Added into our coach Training.

Well define that for us now. So system psychodynamics, what does that mean?

So it means that you're looking.

Hold on, hold on. First of all, why that? Why there? And then what the heck does it mean?

Right, so I'll start with why that. Yes, I have a colleague who, she was at Johns Hopkins and she started the business career, career services business school there and she brought our company in to do training. And so I knew well about who this person was. Love her to pieces. And I also knew that she was just really.

Busy, really like that this, that she would oftentimes not even sit down during our coach trainings. She had to move around. So I thought, wow, that's, yeah, she's got a busy mind. So I saw her about four years later in a podcast and she looked like a different person. I. She sounded different, she looked different. She looked even more grounded. I mean this a very intelligent woman with several PhDs and a JD and all of that. So I quickly, you know, knocked on her door on LinkedIn. I said, what is, what training have you been doing? Were you talking about paradoxes and ambivalences and the ability to, you know, use this psychodynamic what, where have you been? And she said, I did this program at insead and I'll tell you Gary, I was not totally researched. Like I, I just said I, I love what you're talking about. And she gave me some other reading list and I got really excited and I know that for me when I get super excited and I'm a little bit scared, that's usually a clue that that's something I need to do in my life. So long story short, I went ahead and enrolled within, I think about 10 days of talking to my colleague and friend and started the program about six months later when the next cohort had started. So off my trips to France all by myself, I was one of two Americans and a group of 27 people from 17 different countries. Wow, it was fantastic.

And what is your thesis then going to be in or on?

So you asked me like, what is psychodynamics?

Yeah, yeah, what is it? Let's say here we go.

Yeah, right. So it looks at like everybody has once change has to do change that is just a non negotiable in our lives, in our businesses, et cetera. And yet so very often we don't get the change that we set out to do. And so the system psychodynamics looks at both the unconscious and the conscious reasons or the interplay between complex systems. So like an individual could have defenses. We all know what a defense is. We can have an, we can have defenses. Systems can also have defenses. You can have that occurring and you're not even aware of it because it is unconscious. And so just kind of peeling back the layers to understand what is preventing change in ourselves, in our systems, and being curious about that so that you can get people from out of that fight flight stage of I don't want to change. I'm not even, I think I don't want to change because of this. But there may be some other reasons as well, that if you increase that awareness, then you can start looking at it, being curious about it, coaching around what would it mean to change, where's your meaning making system, et cetera.

So this may be a deeper question, but I know you like deep questions. So is change, how do you define change, first of all, and secondly, is it.

Going from one state to a state that you don't currently have, or is it going to going to what's really there, but you weren't there? Now, am I making any sense by that question? Do you know what I mean?

That last phrase is interesting. What do you mean when you say that it was already there but you didn't know how? Did you say that?

Yeah. Here's one of the things that I talk about a lot with knowing your why most people don't know who they are, so they put on a mask for who they think they want to be or should be.

Okay.

And so then when they're told they need to change, they just change to another mask. Versus are they changing? Are you. Are people changing to something they want or they changing to something they really are? And that's when they know their yos, then they're like, oh, now I get it. Okay, now how do I just be me versus is change something that's not them that they want to be or is change. Are you helping them change to who they really are? And now is it making any sense? Is the question making any sense?

Yeah, you're, you're either is it this or that? And I appreciate the use of the word mask like in a system psychodynamic approach, you might call that Persona.

Okay, yeah, Persona.

Okay, that's okay. The mask works. Right?

So I think my definition of change, I'm going to use a neuroscience definition of change. And people can have different definitions of change. That's fine. So my definition would be when you've got new neural connections that enable you to do new behaviors that you had, not that Were elusive you had not been able to do in the past.

So new neural behaviors that you were not able to do in the past.

New neural connections that support new, new behaviors that you hadn't been able to do in the past then. So unfortunately, change can be for the worse or for the better. Right. So the mask idea could be that I'm just going to develop new behaviors, new neural connections, and that lead to new behaviors that will make me different in some way. I would say from a coaching. And then also the psychodynamic perspective, it would be, am I developing new behaviors that are. Are they like new defensive behaviors, new defenses that are going to protect me and keep me wearing, as you said, a different mask? Ideally, I think the brain is going to be happiest, healthiest when you are developing new behaviors that are probably a little bit difficult to do.

And yet there's research that talks about when you do behaviors that are out of reach and they're out of your comfort zone, like going out and walking two miles, if you do that every day, that is not outside of your comfort zone. Lifting weights if you don't do it is outside of your comfort zone. Your brain thrives and works better when it has those kinds of challenges. So I would say change really is going to healthy. Change is going to involve something that is hard for you to do, to unwire and rewire. And oftentimes I remember somebody was saying that that, like, public speaking is one of our biggest fears. Well, it's not public speaking that's the fear. It's public rejection that is the fear. Right. So as you change and live out your why in a way that really is honest and true, you may risk being rejected by people. And, you know, it's not like, oh, I reject you, but it's like.

Why'D you do that? You're doing what? Why would you do that?

That can be very threatening to our egos. So how did that answer that?

Yes. Yeah, you know, I know. I get it.

Do you favor making the simple, taking the simple and making it complex by diving in very deep, or do you favor taking the complex and making it simple to understand? Are you more towards the simple to complex or complex to simple.

Or neither?

I think some of my team would say that I go simple to complex, and I think that's because I just have so many ideas and I see so many connections. And so honestly, and you could probably look back at this interview and I probably expanded things several times because I do see so many connections. So that's kind of a tendency. And at the same time, I know that if I'm going to be instructing or developing curriculum or writing books or anything like that, I've got to also simplify it. So I do that just because I want people to know how powerful, whatever it is, I've discovered this complex thing and I know they're not going to get it. I barely get it. Right.

If it's in a. In a subject area that you haven't studied, you're just not going to get it. So I want to be able to bring that to people in a way that they go, that's easier than I thought. And there's the contribution, right? That's, that's the bottom line. It's like, can we make. Life is still going to be tough, right? If you're going to challenge yourself in that way that I described, that the brain needs to have that challenge, you can get away from that. But if you know that that's how your brain operates, it adds a little bit of ease because you understand it. And if people can understand how to work with their brains as opposed to against their brains, then I am just so hopeful for life, for humanity, for working cultures where people try to understand one another and treat each other humanely and keep people out of the red zone so that you can be in that place of creativity. Because your brain is not going to create, it's not going to innovate, it's not going to iterate. When it's in that state of, I need to protect myself, that's what I'm on this planet for. It's like, can we find a better way to treat people? To work to.

Yeah.

I love it. And so back to your thesis. What is. Do you have a title for your thesis?

You know, I don't yet. And my thesis advisor even said, don't title it yet. You don't know what you're going to find. And you know, I have some specific ideas I'm specifically looking at talking to coaches who have had a red zone experience. So whenever I use red zone, it's synonymous with I get into fight flight. And that can be subtle, like I'm getting tongue tied. Or it could be a little bit of frustration, or it could be full on, I'm frozen. I don't know what to say. I'm just shocked. But have worked with clients who themselves were in some state of distress, big stress, like, I don't like my options. I don't know what to do. I'm at a loss. The client's in the red zone. The coach is also in the red zone. I want to know what's happening at a kind of a psychodynamic level around that. And then conversely, I want to know what happens when people do encounter others, whether it's a client, a leader, a spouse, a kid, any, a friend that is in the red zone. But you're able to stay in that blue zone state of curiosity and connection and study just the differences there and hope to be able to simplify what's happening so that people, especially coaches, have a better ability. Coaches and leaders have a better ability to remain connected and curious. When people kind of go berserk, I think our world needs them.

Yeah, I love that. Wow. Well, you know, let's, let's change gears a little bit and talk for a minute about the academies. When did you start the academies? What is it and who is it for?

The academies for coaching is an ICF accredited, so International Coaching Federation, ICF accredited program provider for training at the level one and level two currently levels. So that coaches who want to get an ICF credential can come to our organization, get that training, pass their evaluations, which not a simple check the box kind of thing, get the training, learn in a better way from a neuroscience perspective how to become an ICF credentialed coach. And so the people that come to us are, we have several verticals. We have internal coaches who are working typically with human resources, organizational development, performance, learning and development areas within an organization that want to train a couple, several, a large cohort of their people so that they can infuse this sort of coach approach, blue zone model of working within their organization so that their leaders and the leaders that work with teams are able to also maintain that coach approach, blue zone model so that you keep people engaged, you don't lose people, you, you know, keep them innovating, you manage conflict, you don't avoid it, but you handle it in a much different way. So that's, that's one vertical. We also work with a lot of healthcare organizations, financial institutions.

Media web. This is a lot of different types of companies come to us to be able to get that coach training. We do that for the leadership space. We also have a career coaching component for people that want to coach leaders on their career paths as well as anybody really looking to manage their careers.

And the academies. Go ahead. I'm sorry.

No, I was going to say. So companies plus we'll have external coaches, individuals that, that come and want to ping their shingle.

So.

The academies has Been around for how long?

Well, I mentioned I discovered coaching right around the, the 2000. So we're getting close to 25 years as a coach training organization.

Yeah, yeah. And you've got, do you have, do you even have a sense of how many alumni you have?

Thousands.

Yeah.

Every habitable continent.

Yeah. And you. So you've shown them a better way and then they've been able to continue to expand and, you know, I don't know if you've ever sat down and thought, gosh, I wonder how many people this has really actually affected. Right. How many people have been touched by the academies. It's got to be quite a massive number.

I would hope hundreds of thousands. I would hope millions. Yeah. And. And can I just mention too, that I've shown people a better way. The, the. That you cannot do that without also listening to the many thousands of people that have been through our classes and our programs like they share. They have shown me a better way as well. And that collective intelligence that comes when you listen to other people's way. Like you have taught me a better way with the why when you co create together and have collective intelligence, that IQ is going to be higher than ever I could do on my own. So I, I just don't want to get through this podcast without seeing that truth.

Yeah. You're a seeker. Forever seeker, right?

Yeah.

Which is fun. Isn't that the fun part? Yeah, that's how I see it too.

Yeah. I still feel like, oh, wow, I get to do this and I make a living at it and I learn from people all the time and I get to share and make the world a better place. It doesn't get much better.

Yeah. So last. Last question for you, Susan. What's the best. Well, second to last question, but what's the best piece of advice you've ever been given or the best piece of advice you've ever given?

I'm going to choose the question about been given. It's not really a piece of advice. It was a question that one of my mentor coaches asked me decades ago, and she said, well, what will happen if you don't do this? And it was one of those moments where I was just super quiet and had to think and the silence was deafening. And it went for a while and it really made me think about what do I need to change in me to be able to do this thing that I don't want to do? Because if I don't do it, I am not going to make a bigger difference in the world. So I Love that question. What will happen if you don't? And sort of hesitated to offer that because it sounds a little negative, but it was offered from my mentor in such a curious, nonjudgmental way that. That stayed with. Stayed with me quite a long time.

You know, I wasn't truthful a minute ago because I have another question that I have to ask you before the last question.

Penultimate question. Yeah.

Penultimate. Yes. So it's a penultimate question. How do you. One of the challenges that people with a why a better way have is making a decision. And maybe you have some insight on how you make a decision or how to make a decision that could be helpful to other people with the why a better way. Because the reason we struggle with, you know, finding making a decision is because how do we know it's. There's not something better? Okay, well, maybe there's something better there.

So cleaning. Yeah.

Have you come up with any good strategy or solution for that?

I actually do have a response to that. I have to tell you how hard it's been for me not to ask you a bunch of these same questions like you ask me. And I'm like, I so want to know what you do.

Yes.

And I see you. Good. You're just quietly not answering that. But I would say that the way that I manage that is to really be mindful and listen to my body.

Like, if I'm excited.

And scared, like it talked about making the decision to go to the masters in France. Excited and scared helps me know that that's the right decision.

I can also pay attention to the fears that I have about what people will think of me and how they might disapprove of me. And if I can pay attention to that sense of guilt or worry, I also know that that might help guide me towards the right decision. Because, you know, we. We're social creatures. We have to live within these groups of communities and families that we have. But if I. If I'm making decisions where I'm pleasing somebody else, which I still do, as opposed to myself. The mask. Yeah, that's. That's another one.

I'm writing this down.

Yeah. Does that. I think.

I think we could do a whole episode on that because it's. Decision making is such a challenging thing for some people and others, it's not hard at all. It doesn't seem. But one of the challenges I face with the. With the why a better way. I have a daughter who has the wife better way. She has the same. It's just making a decision because when Is it good enough? When can I actually say this is better? It's not that easy. It's, it's, you know, it frustrates my wife sometimes. She's like, why can't you just make a decision on what to order in a restaurant? I mean, it's not that hard. I know, but this one over here might be better. Well, so what if it's better? Yeah, then I, that's the one I want to choose, you know, so it's not.

So what is your answer to that? Do you.

I ask for other opinions. Like when I go to a restaurant, I'll say, what's the best thing on the menu? I always ask that, what's the best thing on the menu? And then I have somewhere to start. The hardest thing for somebody with the why a better way is a blank sheet of paper. Because you don't have anything to make better.

Right. So if there's something on it, give me a draft, give me something, I can make it better. But if there's nothing on it, it's very hard to come up with something because you want something there to make better. So if I have somewhere to start, what's the best thing on the menu? Then I have somewhere to start. Where? Oh, well, that's what they do the best. Well, if it's something I think I might like, okay, I'm going to take that because that's the best thing there. Yeah, but it's. I like what you said about listening to your body. I'd never thought of that. But I know now when I hear you saying it how that can make me feel. And then also, you know, the guilt about a decision and what other people will think, I can relate to that as well. So super helpful.

Last question. Now, if there are people that are listening that would love to connect with you, follow you get to work with, you know more about the academies. What's the best way for them to connect.

The I'll offer two options. One is on our website, which is theacademies.com so t h e a c dash a d e m I e s dot com and there's a contact page there. We do encourage your brain emails that they could register for. And if there's an interest in coaching, we have amazing humans across the planet who can answer questions about that. And then I can also be found on LinkedIn either through the academies for coaching and also my personal account, Susan Britton. And I'm always posting brain tidbits and my meandering better way ideas.

I love it. Susan, thank you so much for taking the time to be here today and I really enjoyed our conversation. We could have gone on and on and on. I know it and I'm sure we will again in the future. So thank you so much for being here.

You did a great job of holding, raining and reining it in. So thank you. I love. Can I just finish by saying I love what you created? It's really powerful and really clear and really easy to use.

Thank you so much. I appreciate that.

I really hope you enjoyed today's episode and that through today's guest, you heard how important it is to know your why and how impactful it can be in your life and the lives of those around you. Be sure to head over to whyinstitute.com and discover your why today. Remember, the more you know about yourself, the more you'll know about others. I'm Dr. Gary Sanchez and I'll see you on the next episode.