A Better Way to Real Estate

Welcome to beyond you'd why Podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Gary Sanchez. At the why Institute, we've helped over 40,000 people discover, make decisions and connect using their why. This show will be much more powerful for you once you know your own why. So head over to whyinstitute.com and discover your why. Today you're going to meet one of the leaders who've discovered their why with us and is going to share their story and the powerful lessons they've learned.

Welcome to beyond you'd why Podcast, where we go beyond just talking about your why and actually helping you discover and then live your why. And so if you're a regular listener, you know that every week we talk about one of the nine whys and then we bring on somebody with that why so you can see how their why plays out in their life. And and so today we're going to be talking about the why of better way. So if your why is better way, then you are the ultimate innovator. You constantly seek ways to do everything from the most mundane task of brushing your teeth to improving the rocket fuel that powers the space shuttle. You can't stop yourself. You take virtually anything and want to improve it, make it better and share your improvements with the world. You invent things and take what has already been invented and improve that too. You constantly ask yourself the questions, what if we tried this differently? What if we did this another way? You contribute to the world with better processes, better systems and operate under the motto often pleased, never satisfied. You are excellent at associating and taking from one industry or discipline and applying it to another, always with the aim of improving something. You generally operate with a high level of energy because that, after all, is a better way. And so today I've got a great guest for you. Her name is Marion Weller. She is a senior Business manager, Executive, Business coach and Principal at Weller International. She's advising brokerage executive teams and real estate professionals, whether during times of crisis or business growth. As a former senior executive of world renowned and industry leading global firms, most recently as Senior Vice President of Marketing for Sotheby's international realty affiliate in New York, Marion has a deep understanding of the challenges and opportunities real estate businesses face in an ever changing world and an industry that is going through immense disrupt. Her approach was perhaps best described by one client as Feng shui for business. By providing guidance to be more effective and relevant, elevating leadership skills, identifying opportunities for growth as well as cost efficiencies and eliminating redundancies Marian, welcome to the podcast.

Thank you so much, Gary.

Well, I'm excited to talk to you. So what I'd love to do is bring us kind of a little bit of your background, tell us your story in just a couple of minutes. Where were you born? Where did you go to school? How did you end up in real estate? And then New York, and now I know you're in Florida.

Yeah, yeah, of course. Of course. I was born and raised in Germany. So my first entry into the United States was for a German company in California. And the idea was that I would go there for the time being and then I would go back to Germany, which I did. But I found that I just enjoyed how the American culture, Culture worked, how the work environment was going. So I decided to do my graduate degree in the States as well. And the last, you know, it's been now 18 years, so I guess I don't need to go into detail there. And it's so funny when you were talking about my. Why. Because that truly has had an impact throughout my entire life. I was always interested in how other cultures would be doing things. I was so intrigued by how the work environment.

Was structured in the States and in Germany. You have to understand it's a little bit more. I don't want to call it more conservative, but it's definitely less casual. It's more rigid in a way. And what I found, what worked really well with me and how I'm operating is just that interaction with people. I love being with people and helping people and making things better. And so what happened was that every position that I had, I brought in my very unique skills and strengths, which were, like you said earlier today, like processes, systems. Right. How can I develop things that make it smarter instead of harder? And with my unique background of being raised in a different country under different circumstances, there are certain things that perhaps Germans are known for, German companies are known for. And that is, to some extent, an excellence and.

An attention to detail. So understanding how can I make things more efficiently. And that has been something that has been within my professional life, carrying through every single experience that I've had where I help the companies to make things better and help them improve in certain ways.

So you said you were in California or you were in California. Then how'd you get to New York?

So I was in California for this German company, and then I actually went back. I went to Hawaii, I did my international Business management graduate degree, and there, again, I wanted to experience other cultures, not just one culture, but it's such A hot pot of cultures when you're in Hawaii. So from there I went actually back to Germany for a short period of time and then back to California, from California to Connecticut, all job related. And from Connecticut back to Germany, Germany back to New York. And how I ended up in New York was I was offered the position on the executive team for one of the largest Sotheby's international realty affiliates. We oversaw 26 offices and over 1,000 agents. So when that offer came in, I relocated from Germany for that position and that's how I ended up in New York.

So what did you do for Sotheby's in New York? What was your position there? Tell us some of the things that you did that gave you the experience that you have.

Yeah, so in New York, Sotheby's and that affiliate particularly was very well known on the North Shore. And when you're familiar with like the Long island area, it's a very prestige area, very high scale luxury type market where our average prices were $950,000. And if you look at other areas of the country, you'll know that that is quite a high number there. For $950,000, you don't necessarily get a lot. So my role was in coming with a global and really a luxury experience. My role there was helping them through that transition as they were growing very rapidly. So they had a very well known brand on the North Shore and they also started though going into other markets. The East End, the Queens market, the Astoria market. And so with every market you have a different regional need, you have other. The agents are different, the clients are different, the marketplace is different, your competition is different. So what we found ourselves in is that the company was growing very rapidly during a shifting market though. So of course, as every growth has its pain points, you have to determine how can you address these different regional needs. And so I put together a strategic roadmap on how can we create ways that work for this new normal, for the new environment, for the new size of the company. And just to give you one example, we were. A lot of it came from the corporate office because of course it's a brand that we wanted to protect. So what you find when you do too much of that is that the agents go out on their own and they create their marketing materials. And that gets very difficult to manage when you have over 1,000 agents. So we successfully employed a decentralization strategy where we still had core things on the corporate side, but we also had a support team on the regional level. And so that was something that we rolled out. And then of course the digital movement. Right. How can you make sure that you are staying innovative, that you leverage what you have? So for example, we rolled out the Waze and I don't know if you're familiar, but Waze's navigation app. And we would pop up when somebody drives by an open house. And it was just a way of creating additional leads for the agents because at the end of the day, it's a lead generation game. Right. You have to get the right people in front of the house. That is the right fit. It's not just the foot traffic. So having somebody that having more qualified leads coming in is also a recruiting and retention tool for the agents. Because if they have a brokerage that is that provides these tools, then of course that's something they can go back to the clients and say, here is my marketing strategy. Here's how I am making sure I'm getting the right people to see your home. So those were a couple of main points that we've implemented that we were in need because we grew so fast. And a third part was how do you customize for the agents? Because they're all independent contractors, so they all have their own brand. And of course, if I'm doing business, people do business with people. Right. So I want to know who is Gary? Right. Who is my agent? Gary? I want to know what do you bring to the table? Because just because this agent here is Sotheby's and this agent is Sotheby's there they could be completely different. And that's again, that decentralization aspect of it where you say, how much of that can I bring as a brand? Because the Sotheby's international realty brand has power at times. I've had agents that said all I need to say is I'm Marianne from Sotheby's International Realty and people are impressed. They have a certain brand association, but you still want to make sure that that agent's brand comes through as well. So that was a third, very important part of that strategic roadmap of aligning with this new environment to make sure that the agents had what they needed, beautiful brand compliant materials that reflected who they are as an agent.

Yeah. So it sounds like you were brought in to find better ways, right?

Yes, I was brought into oversee marketing.

And that is a story that goes through my entire career.

I graduated with a marketing major and so a lot of my roles on paper were marketing, but literally every single role turned into a more strategic and of Course, marketing has a very strategic role all in itself. And when you are on the executive team, you are not the one implementing, you're the one setting the strategy. So.

The strategy has of course always been there, but perhaps more of the business management strategy, right? How can we operate our business more effectively? How can we run it more relevant? Right? Because again, there is a fierce competition amongst brokerages for talent. And you want to have quality agents. You want to make sure that you are not only paying attention to your top, top agents, but you have that second gear, right, where there are agents that perhaps have not been as long in the business that have tremendous value and talent. And so how do you deal with your time management? How much attention and how much resources do you give to each one of these? And are you even recognizing if you have talent in your brokerage? And that's, in essence, it's leadership, right? It's leadership. How do you develop that next row of leaders within real estate? And that goes to team management as well. So when you oversee a team of, in my case, marketing professionals, both on the headquarters side, but also in the field, how do you make sure that you're growing them and building them up so they can really be at their best? Because I'm personally of the opinion you always want to hire great people, but then when you keep them back, you're really not doing them or yourself a favor. You kind of have to let them loose and bring out that best in them so they can really be their best. And that's how you achieve as a company your greatest successes. Because now you have a team. And perhaps that is something. When you were asking, what's my story? I've been very active in team sports from a very early age, and I was actually internationally playing on teams. And that is an experience that just sets the stage for life, right? You work together. It's not something that you do by yourself. It's something that you bring out the best in other people if you are fortunate to be in an executive role. My role, as I saw it, was to bring the best out of everybody so we could make these improvements together.

You know, what I'm hearing as you're talking is it feels like one of your greatest skills is asking the right question.

Because.

And that's kind of a better way trait. My why is better way as well? And how important do you think it is to have the right question to answer?

I believe, of course there are no stupid questions. The right question will always kind of get you further.

In your discovery. Right? And that's where my business coaching background comes in or what I am doing with my own firm, Wyler International. It's, you ask the right questions because the person on the other side needs to discover it for themselves. Right? And that's perhaps the difference between coaching and consulting at times when, you know, if you are sharing your experiences with somebody and you kind of give that strategic roadmap and you say, here, try this, right? You don't do that in coaching. You're just asking the question because the answer lies within everybody. Right? And they need to discover that for themselves. But the quality of your question will determine whether or not they discover what I found personally as a coach as well as a former corporate executive. Listening is so critically important because when your team comes and says, well, this might not work for whatever reason, right? And we have that idea, we need to make this happen, then it's. And I'm not saying, you know, let's say no to everything, right? But really understanding and listening to the people that are the experts, because we can't be the expert on everything. In my opinion, as a leader, you bring in the experts and then you help bring it all together. You're not trying to have the right answer to every question. You are listening to the qualified people you're bringing in. Otherwise, you have the wrong person. If you don't believe that that person brings the value, then why did you hire that person? So that's kind of my approach where you bring in these experts. So the listening is something that can really make or break the success. And so that's something both now and before that I found is just critically important.

Yeah. Asking the right question and then listening to what the answer is.

Yes, exactly.

We're taking a quick break to give you a chance to find clarity in your life instead of just listening. Ready to put an end to your frustration, ready to unlock the code to your personal and business success. I know you can, because I have, and I'm giving you my exact system. It's time for you to discover your why, how and what. Head over to why institute.com and get started. Let's get back to the show.

What do you see? You've worked with lots of companies now and lots of leaders. What do you see as what separates the really great leaders from the ones that are just in a position of being the leader?

It's that old, you know, that old definition of leadership was almost equal to title, right? I think that's shifting big time. Where leadership is. You are able to inspire others, Right. You're not inspiring people by showing them how powerful you are, what great title you have, or that you have the power over them, that you can tell them what to do. That's not leadership. I believe the greatest leaders that I've experienced, they again, they bring in great people and they don't feel threatened by that. They want to bring in the people. They don't feel afraid of not having an answer, but they find the right answer with the people that they bring in. And I think in leadership everything is about the people. How do you make them feel? Do you make them feel valued? And I've seen some leaders that they are not necessarily valuing the people. And then they wonder why the motivation is down, why the performance is down, why the customer service is down. Case in point, if you look at, just as an example, if you have a team and you are not valuing them or they don't feel valued, right, Sometimes you might value them, but they don't feel it and you are. And say, for example, they get very demotivated, why would you think that they're providing the best customer service? Right? Why would you think that they are above and beyond accommodating when, say real estate agents come through the door and need that person to walk the extra mile? So I think that all comes down to leadership, being able to have empathy, kindness, those kinds of traits. And really valuing people. Not talking about valuing people, but valuing people. It's, you know, you always remember how somebody made you feel. You might not remember what they said, right? You can say all the right things, but if your team doesn't feel that, then there's a disconnect. And so now in this whole optimization, which the business management side, which I'm doing with my consulting and coaching firm, I'm focused on optimizing. And team optimization is a very critical topic here because if you have functional teams that are not working well together, your success, your results will be diminished. They're not what they need to be because you're not on one connect. And there again, if you're a leader and that kind of leads with empathy, kindness, understanding, listening, then you will get down to what's really going on so you can provide a solution. But if you lead by title, then nobody is going to tell you.

So let's talk about that for a minute because I struggle with that and I'm sure lots of other people listening to this now that are leaders. How do you separate?

Or maybe you don't separate, but you want to get things done. So you're all about results and getting things done. Then how do you also value somebody? What do you mean by value somebody? And what does that actually look like? How do you do that?

Well, again, when you are going. When you value somebody, say, for example, you have a project that needs to be accomplished. Right. First of all, what I always did is I sit down and I kind of talk it through. And I believe that setting expectations is critically important here because sometimes we get confused. We want to be people's friends, we want to be the team's friend. Right? We want to be the cool boss and be all accommodating. But that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about truly caring for that person. And when I say that, it's, let's talk through. Say, for example, we have a project that we need to accomplish. This is the timeline we're looking at. And then talking it through. When do you believe we can realistically get this portion done? What do you need from me? Do you need guidance? Have I been clear in my communication? What are my expectations? And so I believe, again, when people feel valued, they have a clear roadmap, they have a clear goal, and they have deliverables. People want to meet that, right? You're hiring professionals, you're not hiring that nobody wants to come to work and be lazy. People want to do a great job. But oftentimes the problem is it hasn't been clearly communicated or the priorities keep shifting. On Monday, they're supposed to do this, on Wednesday they're supposed to do that. Or then here come the emails and the phone calls, and suddenly everything we discussed on Monday is out the door, right? And that's how you run people down. That's how you run a team down. And at some point they resign to it. They're like, sure, I'll do it, that's fine. You know, I'll do my best. But that's not their best because they're demotivated, they're not performing well. So what I found, when you are sitting down with people, you're clearly communicating. You're bringing them into the picture, the bigger picture, of course, only to an extent where that makes sense. You don't want to burden them with the bigger decisions that perhaps are happening on the executive level, but the things that they need to know and the appreciation. And sometimes that's as simple as, you know what? I really appreciate you going the extra mile. Sometimes it's as simple as that. But it has to feel I have to mean it, right? I don't just want to say that because I need something else from this person because people can feel whether or not that is true. And I think looking back in my own career, some of the best leaders and the leaders I most admire have been those that were super busy but seemingly always had a moment when there was something I needed to discuss with them. Having that open door policy because if you are not hearing it from them, if they become quiet, I always say as soon as they become quiet, you got a challenge. Because now they don't even want to talk about it anymore. And don't think that there is nothing going on. Right. If you can sense it, if you can feel it, and especially within real estate, it's such a fast paced environment and it's such demanding work because you have the agents who are on the front lines all day long. They have a thousand balls in the air. They have clients that oftentimes don't want to hear that the house didn't sell or they are not getting people through the door or that their interior is completely outdated and they should be investing $30,000 before even putting it on the market. You know, it's a very emotional kind of industry. And then on the other side, you have employees who are paid on a salary, right. To them it's like they're constantly fires. But I'm not seeing the big check when that house is being sold. Right. I'm getting a salary that depending on the role might be more, might be less. But that wears a lot of employees down. And so how do you make sure that they are motivated? They love coming to work. They enjoy working in this fast paced environment and are really providing that service to the agents because in a way the agent is our client. Right. Because they could go to another brokerage anytime. And that's how brokerages operate. Most of the revenue comes from sales.

I gotcha. So you were with Sotheby's for quite a while and then you went off and started your own. So tell us about what you're doing now.

Yeah, so I took my experience for various different. Prior to Sotheby's as actually with Coldwell bank or Residential Brokerage. And I oversaw the territory of Connecticut and Westchester County, New York. And we had over 2,200 agents and if I recall correctly, like 54 or 56 offices. So that was an even bigger territory there. So I took that experience and primarily in real estate that I've seen, which is now what I'm embedding into my business of business management excellence. Right. Optimizing real estate businesses because there are so many ways how we can leverage what's there and make it better and make it more efficient. Right. Because on a real estate basis. And that's why I'm focusing on real estate and of course because that's my background. But the margins are getting smaller and smaller. There's such a competition for the agents that you have to get creative and identify effective ways to do things. So that's my focus now, advising executive teams and real estate professionals in how to optimize, how to improve their results. In essence, how to do it smarter and not harder.

How to find a better way.

That's right, yeah.

So when you discovered your why of finding a better way, how did that feel for you?

Oh, it was an eye opener. You know, it's so interesting how a survey can be so right on. Because I looked back in my life and like very early in my career I was working and that was in the construction industry. I was working for a company that was in, they develop coats for, on a global scale and it was a monopoly. So there wasn't really a business unit there. When I started again in marketing, next thing I knew is I put together a strategic roadmap with the board of directors and the executive team helping them and literally building up the entire business unit. Talk about making it a better way. Because we started getting competition when the market opened up and the company wasn't really prepared for that. And so you have a very high quality engineering type firm who is threatened in a way by that competition that might not provide the quality we did, but because we didn't have a business arm, we literally had to build that up. So I built up that unit. And so there again, a better way. Every single experience I can remember that had significance in my career, I was developing a strategic roadmap to do things better. And so it's just so interesting.

It puts words to the feelings, right?

It does, it does. Sometimes you're lacking the words of like, what is it?

What makes me me? And that perhaps very early when I started out on my own, it's. I knew my strengths and I knew what the industry is dealing with, but I didn't really know how to put that into words. What exactly am I doing? Because my identity was so heavy on that marketing side. And it took me a moment to realize that's not where I can be of most value. Where I can be of most value is helping businesses and brokerages do things better. Because it saves their time, it saves their resources, it Saves their frankly sanity. Because if you're out there and you are an agent, and I always told my agents, pick a couple of technologies, don't try and have everything right. It's like an arsenal as a brokerage. You have all these tools because you have so many agents. But no agent should ever try and master all of these. All you're going to do is you're going to be frustrated and you will be burned out. So try and identify what really moves the needle in your business and then determine which technologies align with that. And so there again the same words keep coming up. Alignment, effectiveness, optimization, Smarter, not harder. And that's where my focus is because that resonates on the large brokerage scale, but it also resonates for the individual real estate professional because they also ran a business. So whatever you can do on an executive level, you can also break down and simplify on an individual level.

So how do you feel when you're working with somebody who maybe isn't necessarily looking for a better way, they're wanting you to just hold their hand. Do you feel.

Useful in that area? Or is that, like you said, that's not really utilizing your strengths?

It is and it isn't right. Because you kind of meet your client where they're at and sometimes they're just not there yet. But that doesn't mean they won't be at a later point. Right. And I think especially with what we are all going through now, sometimes it's the accountability, sometimes it's the person guiding you through this because again, you have the answers oftentimes right there or just by talking it through with an expert that maybe gives you little impulses and ideas, suddenly the barriers break down and you are clear on what you need to do. So I personally believe you meet the client where they're at and that might be completely different a year from now. And that's where coaching and consulting in my view is more of a long term relationship because it truly relationship the more you understand about this company. And that is true for my former corporate life too. When you come in, it takes about three months to understand what is truly happening there, right? Because you might say, oh, this is my pain, this is what we need fixed. But then you go in and you're like, okay, wait a minute, right? Do you realize that this is out of alignment? Do you realize this is how people are feeling? Do you realize that we put a strategy in place that nobody in the field is embracing? Right. So that's when you get deeper into that level of okay, well, we want to think it's this, right? But the underlying current here is something else. And that's where that relationship comes in. And like I said in the beginning, I love discovering these kinds of things because you can watch your clients and it's like that aha moment, it makes such a big difference. And perhaps that's where that feng shui reference came from. Sometimes it's little alignments, sometimes it's just you need an outside perspective to see the obvious, right? Or perhaps not so obvious to me, sometimes obvious, but you kind of and then have to find a way to communicate that in a sensitive way. And that's where the trust comes in. Right? Because some of those truths are not always pretty. We don't always want to hear what needs to be said. And I think that's where you're almost more of a trusted advisor. That of course develops over time. And when you provide that value and your clients are trusting you, that's where the magic happens.

Do you think it would be valuable for you to know the why of your client as you start working with them?

Yes, I do, I do. Because especially when, especially when you're dealing with teams or individuals, right? Because. And there again with the real estate industry, I personally believe real estate professionals need to know their why. Because when it gets tough, it's so easy to get frustrated and say, you know what, this is just not working. But if you remember your why, if you remember how you operate and what really makes the difference, why did you decide to get into real estate, right? What keeps you getting up every day? Those are things that will anchor you and that will get you through those difficult times. So for a couple of reasons. But I also believe that it helps you determine your ideal client. Right? Because I can't tell you how many real estate professionals I've worked with that had that work with clients that were not, they did not really get along, they were not treated necessarily very nice, right? And you might wonder why are you working with them? And of course it's a big listing or you know, it's any listing, right. Depending on where you are in your career. But what that does to the quality of your life, when you work with the wrong people, whether you are an agent working with a client or you are a corporate employee and you're working in a toxic environment, what that does to you, that has far more far reaching implications. So I think understanding your why, how you operate, how the other people operate, and then determining does that really fit makes for such a better quality of life. And will get you through. Personally, I believe pretty much anything because there's always a solution. And that's how we grow when it gets difficult and we're pushing through.

See, and that's what I was getting at with you a minute ago with a question I asked you because you hit it right on the head there. You said knowing your why helps you determine your ideal client. And so why I was asking you that question is you're looking for people that are looking for a better way. That's your ideal client. If they're not looking for a better way, well, what the heck am I going to do with you? You right. I want to work with people that are looking for a better way. Then I know they're going to love me. They're going to love what I have to say. They're going to love all the experience that I have. They're going to love the things that I bring to them. We're going to have a great relationship if that's what they're looking for. If they're not looking for a better way, yeah, you could work with them and you could carry them along for a while or whatever, but that's not that much fun for you.

No. And I personally don't think that they would even go out and. And find a business coach or me in this case. Right. Because they're not looking for a better way. I am there for those within, primarily within real estate, but this applies to other businesses as well. For anybody who wants to get to that next level, they know they've gotten either. It could be a growth phase, like very similar to my last experience. It could be a growth phase where you just, what, worked with a small organization doesn't work anymore. Right now you need to figure out how do I support this growth or which is what we've unfortunately all experienced over the last months was more of a crisis management. And that perhaps is something else where people that work with me have told me in the past that I keep my head cool when others are losing theirs. And that is a skill or a trade that people are looking for right now because it is such an emotional time. And when you have somebody that you know, you can rely on, a trusted partner, so to speak, that can still keep a cool head, because now we have to keep a cool head. A lot of businesses are in a roller coaster.

And so now how do you develop? And I actually developed an online coaching program around that because I felt that there are so many business owners out there that can't afford a business Coach, Right. A one on one business coach. But they just don't know where to turn.

So that was my thinking. What can I make available to them that they could easily access? And I'm in the middle of putting together like a group coaching around this. How can they crisis manage their business? How can they stabilize their finances? How can they come up with creative solutions for their business that are true for the now? Right. How can you remarket, how can you expand your offering? How can you change your offering? Is your offering still relevant? When have you looked at your ideal clients last? All those things, what's coming in, what's going out, what do you have available? And those are very simple business principles. Right? But when was the last time you evaluated your finances and your expenses? Right. Are you even aware where you have membership subscriptions in place? What you're paying for, the marketing you're paying for your listings that might never sell in a year from now, you're losing the listing and another agent takes it over for a lower price and you spend $30,000amarket. But do you even know how much you're spending on any given listing? It's things of that nature. But that's where the coaching comes back in, where they have to discover that for themselves. Because it's obviously very unique, right? Every business, every agent has a different situation. And so asking the right questions are part of that online coaching. But I felt I wanted to take it one step further and instead of leaving them with this program and some of them just don't really know how, right. Having that group coaching experience where I come in and they can rely on my expertise and helping them through this process, but then also come together as a community and sharing best practices and sharing experiences. So that's something else that I'm working on right now.

So if I were to summarize what I've heard from you so far and I would say, okay, so why would somebody want to work with Marion? I would say that you're going to ask the right questions, you're going to find a better way and you're going to create a strategy to get them there.

That's right.

And it's, I hear it as you talk, you're asking questions, but you're asking the right questions and questions maybe they hadn't thought of. Because the quality of your business, the quality of your life is in direct relation to the quality of the questions that you ask yourself.

That's right.

And so you ask the right questions, you find a better way and then you create A strategy and a process to help them get there and coach them along the way.

That's right.

Does that feel right?

That's exactly right. And I think that personal touch there is so critically important because it is an emotional process. Right. And of course when you're in a growth phase and you're supporting, it's not as emotional as you're in the crisis mode of your business. When you don't know how, you know if you're going to have a business a half year from now. And I think that is something that I just really enjoy when I'm able to help businesses get better and get to that either next level or helping them literally save their business. So that's where I get my joy from. And I love working with people.

And you're right, those people that want that help, that want to find a better way, that are open for that, that's where the magic is.

Yep, that's your magic. So Mariana, if people are listening to this and they're like, man, I need to get a hold of her. This is exactly what I'm looking for. I need her help. I want to bounce things off her. I am looking for a better. How should they get ahold of you?

So on my website, wyler international.com and I don't know, Gary, if you have a follow up where you can share the link to that, I have a programs page and on there is the link to the program but also to set up a call, a 30 minute consult to see if it is beneficial for us to work together. Right. Not everybody has the same needs. So to determine if whether or not there is a benefit there, there's a 30 minute sign up. And of course on social media I'm very active. LinkedIn, Facebook or Instagram. So you can get a hold of me and my team there too.

You better spell your name.

It's W E I L E R International. I N T E R N A T I O N A L. Awesome.

Yeah, that's awesome. Well, Marion, thank you so much for taking the time out of your day to be here with me. I have totally enjoyed speaking to another better way person because I get you. I understand exactly what you are saying. We speak the same language. So I look forward to staying in touch as we go along our journeys and continue to find better ways.

I do too. Thanks so much, Gary.

Thank you. Take care.

You too.

Thanks for listening to today's show. But before you go, let me ask you a question. Would you like all of your communication to be easier and more productive. Take the essential first step to clarity now@yinstitute.com I'll catch you on the next episode.

Sam.