Challenging The Status Quo And Standing Out In Business With Scott McKain

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Welcome to beyond you'd why Podcast, where we go beyond just talking about your why and actually help you discover and then live your why. You see, we believe that knowing your why, that driving force behind every decision you make and every action you take, is the essential first step to really knowing yourself. It allows you to move forward faster and have a bigger impact. If you're already a fan of the show, then you know that every week we talk about one of the nine whys and then we introduce you to somebody with that why so you can see how their why has played out in their life. This show will be more powerful for you if you've already discovered your why. If you still need to do that, head over to whyinstitute.com and discover your why today. It'll only take you about five minutes. Now let's meet today's guest.

Welcome to beyond you'd why Podcast, where we go beyond just talking about your why and actually helping you discover and then live your why. So if you're a regular listener, you know that every week we talk about one of the nine whys and then we bring on somebody with that why so you can see how their why has played out in their life. And so this week we're going to be talking about the why of challenge. To challenge the status quo and think differently. So if this is your why, then you don't believe in following the rules or drawing inside the lines. You want things to be fun and exciting and different. You rebel against the classic way of doing things. You typically have eccentric friends and eclectic tastes because after all, why would you want to be normal? You love to be different, think different, and you aren't afraid to challenge virtually anyone or anything that is too conventional or typical for your taste. Pushing the limit comes naturally to you. So I've got a great guest for you today. You're going to love this guy. His name is Scott McCain. He is a globally recognized authority on how organizations and professionals create distinction to attract and retain customers and stand out in a hyper competitive marketplace. Scott's recent book, How Organizations and Leaders Attain, Sustain and Regain the Ultimate Level of Distinction was recently named on Forbes.com as a Top 10 Best Business Book for 2018. The first edition of his book, Create what to Do When Great Isn't Good Enough to Grow youw Business was named by 30 major newspapers as one of the 10 best business books of the Year. Scott's expertise has been quoted multiple times in USA Today, the New York Times, Wall Street Journal and International Herald Tribune. His commentaries were syndicated on a weekly basis for over a decade to 80 television stations in the U.S. canada, and Australia. And he's appeared multiple times as a guest on Fox News Network. Arnold Schwarzenegger booked him for a presentation at the White House with the president in the audience. And Scott played the villain in a movie named by esteemed critic Roger Ebert as one of the 50 greatest movies in the history of cinema, directed by legendary Werner Herzog, with a client list that represents the world's most distinctive companies like Apple, SAP, Merrill Lynch, BMW, Cisco, CDW, Fidelity, John Deere, and literally hundreds more. Scott McCain was honored with the induction, along with Zig Ziglar, Seth Godin, Dale Carnegie, and just 20 more in the Sales and Marketing hall of Fame. After thousands of presentations in all 50 states and 23 countries, he was honored with membership in the Professional Speakers hall of Fame. Scott, welcome to the podcast.

Thank you. I got to make sure my wife listens to this so that she can hear all that good stuff about me there. So it's great to be with you. Thank you. I appreciate it.

This is going to be a lot of fun. I've been looking forward to interviewing you. And why don't we start Scott back. Let's go back to where did you grow up? What were you like in high school? And kind of take us on your journey to bring everybody up to speed on how you got where you are now.

I grew up in a very rural community. I'm from a small town, Crothersville, Indiana. It's about 30 miles north of Louisville, Kentucky, on the Indiana side of the Ohio River. And our claim to fame in our local area is the bigger town in our county is Seymour, Indiana. And so I was born in the hospital in Seymour, Indiana. So when John Mellencamp sings I was born in a Small town. I love that because I was born in the same small town. John's older than I am, but he played all of our dances and everything in high school. It was great. I've got to say that it was a great place to grow up because I remember in when I was in high school, there was a basketball game where John Mellencamp played the dance after the game. Larry Bird played against our team. We went home to watch David Letterman do the weather on local television. Diane Sawyer was doing the weather on another station that we got, and Fuzzy Zeller won the golf tournament that weekend at another competing school. So, I mean, it was just, I'm the failure out of the bunch, right? I mean, it was an incredible time to grow up an incredible place to grow up. My family owned the only groc store in our small community. So I stocked shelves and waited on customers. And right before my 14th birthday, the manager of the local radio station in Scottsburg, Indiana, another nearby community, offered me a job. And it wasn't because I had a good voice or a pleasing personality. He thought if he hired the kid of the grocery store owner, they'd buy more commercials.

So my 14th birthday, I started working full time and at the local radio station. So my high school years were filled between a combination of working at a job and also I got involved in a student organization, ffa, which at that time stood for Future Farmers of America. Today, it's just ffa, But I became a state and national officer of that organization in the two years after I graduated from high school. So by high school time, you know, I look back on it, there's a part of it I wish I would have tapped the brakes a little bit and enjoyed the experience a little more. But I got the chance to do a couple of things that were really outside the box in terms of working in an environment where, you know, I was working with adults. I was the only, you know, the only kid doing that. And also getting in a student organization, that was important.

Yeah, let's talk about that for a minute. So at 14 years old, you were working for a radio station. Were they putting you on air or did you start?

Yeah, in the morning I would do the farm markets before I went to school. And then as soon as I got off school, either my mom would drive me until I got my driver's license, or I would drive. And I got out of school at 3 o', clock, went on the air at 4, and I was on the air from 4 to 9 o' clock. And, you know, would try to get my homework done during the songs. And so I would work there in the morning and at night, and then it pulled a shift on a weekend. And, you know, seriously, it was working 40 hours a week. So. And being involved in the student organization, I was competing in all the contests that. But so I. I loved it. I mean, again, I look back on it and when my friends get together and they talk about all the stuff they did during high school, I was kind of like, oh, I wasn't there when you guys were doing that. I was, I was at work, you know, But. But I think it also led to a lot of the great things that happened to me later on in life. So no regrets.

Yeah, so let's talk about that. So FFA So the radio station is where you learn maybe to speak, because you've got a killer voice, and anybody who's listening hears it. And so did you learn the voice, or was it already your voice? Or how did you develop such a great voice?

That's a great question, because there's a couple of answers to that, and one is FFA is where I learned how to speak, not radio. What I learned from radio is you had to have something to say every time you turn the mic on, and it had to be condensed. It had to make sense in a short period of time. So it helped me more in terms of thinking about how to make my point than it really did in terms of speaking, where it helped in terms of my voice. And I look back now and realize, I guess I was training it and didn't even know it, because, remember the first time you heard your voice on a recording and how different it sounded off a recording than it sounds in your head? I had headphones on five hours, six hours a day, so I constantly heard my voice. And when you're 14 is when your voice is changing. So as my voice was changing, I was constantly trying to drive it down so I would sound like an adult, not like a kid, you know, on the radio. And it wasn't that I sat there and intentionally did it, but I look back now and realize it might be part of what. But my dad had a band and sang and all that on the weekends. So my dad had just a beautiful singing voice. I can't sing, but maybe some of the genes in terms of vocal quality, you know, came through.

So, okay, so then you developed your voice through the radio station, and then tell us about ffa, because a lot of people are not familiar with that. What was that? And how did you compete in ffa?

FFA is a unique organization because instead of being an extracurricular activity, it's intercurricular. By that I mean, for example, when the teacher is talking about, how do you communicate? For example, I took a course in agricultural sales and service. It was in our high school. Okay, so when we're talking about that, then the way that you learned was also to compete in a contest against folks from other schools, and you would make a sales presentation and you would speak. There were public speaking contests. There were that. And I remember the summer between my eighth grade and freshman year going to Purdue University, sitting on the next little last row and hearing the speaker. And it was the first time in my life that I realized there was more to life than Southern Indiana. You know, I mean, not that there's anything wrong with Southern Indiana and it's a great place to live and I love it and go back all the time, but I was never exposed to what my horizons could be until that point. And that's something I'll always be grateful to FFA for, is giving me the privilege of seeing what life could hold.

So you would travel around and compete on sales presentations or just speaking presentations or what were they?

Yeah, both. I did everything from prepared public speaking contests to, you know, where you work on a seven minute speech and you deliver it and then you have to answer questions, to parliamentary procedure where I would chair a meeting of other chapter members and judges would throw you tricks of parliamentary procedure. And, you know, how well did you as the chairperson handle that? I did livestock judging where you would have to go in, in front of judges and say, you know, I place this particular cow over this particular cow for these reasons. And so you had to talk about how you would justify your thinking and how you justified your reasoning. And one of the real interesting things I loved about that competition was it wasn't you were graded to some degree on how accurately you placed the class, but what you were really graded on is how did you convince the judges of the logic of your thinking and even if you disagree, and particularly if you disagreed with their positioning, why? And I love that, I love that you didn't have to match everybody else's thinking as long as you could be persuasive and interesting and accurate in why you made the choices that you made. I love that.

So you had a ton of training on speaking and presence and being different from a very young age.

Then after I graduated from high school, the month after I graduated high school, I was elected state FFA president, which meant I put college on hold for a year to do nothing but travel and speak in Indiana. It's a bad way to put it, but it's kind of like being the Miss America of agribusiness. Right? Like every Farm Bureau meeting, every, you know, Corn growers association meeting, you were there to represent young people who had an interest in agribusiness. Then the following year I was elected the national officer, which meant another year, but only this time it was national international travel, representing the future of agribusiness. The other, the other interesting thing was because I was not from a strict production background. You know, a lot of the other folks came from huge farms. And so I kind of had to justify why my difference was a positive thing and not a negative thing because it was Very different from the tradition of the organization at that particular time. So that was a great growing and expanding experience as well, because there was some pushback on, wait a minute, how does this guy get this office? Because. And that was a time of change in the organization when it was not just going to be future farmers, but future people involved in business. And that business could be agriculture.

So by the time you were 20 or 21, how many speeches had you given?

At least a thousand.

Wow.

But the other thing is, I mean, because your average day was three high school assemblies, three service clubs, and then a parent member banquet. I mean, different audiences, different groups. But also, by the time, you know, I was 21, 22, I'd met in the Oval Office with the president, and I'd had a personal meeting with the chairman of General Motors in the boardroom of Detroit. And it wasn't about me. It was about the respect and engagement they had with the organization. But, man, it's just hard to imagine having those kinds of experiences by that particular point.

So what would you say was the biggest thing you learned from doing a thousand speeches by the time you were 21?

Well, what I learned was there was a particular aspect of the audience. The old joke was, it could have been an old yellow dog, but if it held the office of National FFA office, there would be people there to listen to it. But I wanted to be interesting to my audiences. But yet, what do you have to say at 21 years old that adults are going to want to listen to? So I started making a list. I would ask the business people in the audience what the most important thing that made their business successful. What was that? So I would be able to say last night at Ottumwa, Iowa, Bill Smith, that runs the local grocery store, said, this is the most important thing he's learned in business. Well, one of two things would happen. Either people would write that down, or somebody would come up and go, I got a better idea. So you spent two full years just accumulating this type of material. And so now I could say things of interest to an adult group because it was great information, because it was from successful people. But it was also practical, not solely theoretical. These were the things that these small business people were actually doing that made a difference. And it, you know, for example, was the first time I heard, you know, employees come first, not customers. If you treat your employees right, they'll treat your customers right. Well, you know, I started talking about that, you know, in the early 80s, and people would write that down. You know, no, One was out there saying that. Well, it was just somebody came up to me after a meeting and they said, hey, people always say the customer is always right. No, they're not. But if you treat your employees better than you treat your customers, they'll treat your employees, they'll treat your customers great. So those were the kinds of things that helped me be of interest to adults. But it also. Look, the ideas that were striking were the ideas that were unique, were the ideas that were different. I mean, if somebody said, well, we open every day at the same time, I mean, well, big deal. It's not, you know, but it's when people would say things that I would go, wow, I've never heard that before. And then I would share that with my audiences. And I think behavior rewarded, behavior repeated. Right. When I would share unique out of the box kind of ideas with audiences, they would respond more enthusiastically and more dramatically than if I was just sharing platitudes.

Yeah. Okay, so by 21, you had not started college yet, and now you're off to college. Where did you go to college and what did you study in college that led you on to your first business?

You bet. I went to a small college in central Indiana, Franklin College, for a primary reason. The guy that owned the radio station I worked for also owned the radio station in Franklin, and he said, you got a job. Because with my family situation, I was going to have to work my way through school. And all my buddies went to Purdue or went to Indiana University. I'm kind of in between the two campuses at Franklin, but I had a job. But the funny part was I got so many requests to go give a speech, pay more through college, more speaking, I had to leave the radio station because I was doing so many speeches. Political science was my major. The goal at that time was that I was going to go to law school because that was something where I thought I could stand, I could speak, I could do trials, that kind of thing. And also my grandmother's sister, my great aunt, was a legal secretary involved at one of the big dynamic law firms in Indianapolis, and would visit her and just think, wow, this is so cool. You know, the big city and lawyers. I learned along the way that was not what I wanted to do, but that was the initial goal.

Okay, so you graduate from Franklin College, and then what happens to you?

College offered me to go to work for them because obviously I was a little older, right. Than the typical graduate. And also I'd had all these experiences. So they offered me to be the. This is such A weird combination, but it was director of Public relations and annual fund, which meant I was in charge of raising the cash gifts for the college, and I was in charge of the PR for the college. And they would let me speak a little bit. Not a lot, but they. They were okay with me doing some speeches on the side. So it's a funny part of the story. They offered me $12,000 a year. I honestly, at that point in my life, thought, how could I possibly spend $1,000 a month? I just couldn't imagine. I had more money. Thought. And the previous year's fund had raised about $230,000, 240,000 bucks. I raised just under 800,000 bucks. And they offered me a raise to 13,000 a year. And I thought, higher education is not for me at this particular point. And again, it gets back to what you were saying earlier. It didn't fit in. I didn't like the rules. I thought. And they were like, yeah, but percentage wise, you're getting this great raise. Well, no, that's not. I just don't think like that. That just wasn't me.

Okay, so you leave Franklin College, and then where do you go?

A radio station offered me. They knew that I was doing a lot of speaking, and they knew of my previous work in radio. And they said, if you want to build your speaking business, we'll put you on in middays. And if the speech is in Indiana, you know, you get off work early enough, you can drive anywhere in the state and make your speech that night. If you have a speech elsewhere, we've got somebody on staff that can pinch it up for you. So you can, you know, you can take as many speeches as you want. And it was the perfect, perfect thing because it gave me a solid income while I was building my speaking business. And again, you know, at this point, I'm 27, 28 years old. So again, I'm. I'm doing more. I've kind of developed my own philosophy, but at the same time, I'm really doing more of, here's what I've learned, and here's what I've heard from these experiences that I've had that are unique for somebody my age. And it was reporting on that more than my own philosophy and my own beliefs, simply because the audiences were twice as old as I was at that particular time. So that was kind of how I could backdoor my philosophy in, was using the quotes and the knowledge that I gained from talking to so many. So many interesting people.

And that's exactly what I was going to ask you next is what could you possibly be speaking on at that age? But now that makes a lot of sense. So just for curiosity's sake, what did you get paid back then to do a speech at 26 years old when.

I was in college. It's a couple hundred bucks. I remember one group in Iowa, it was a farm co op, and I drove to Iowa and they gave me $200. And then they drove me to the edge of town and filled up my gas tank.

I thought, this is the best. This is so cool. Right? I still have the contract. Then there was a speakers bureau got interested in me, McKinney Associates, and I still have the first contract, and it was Kentucky Farm Bureau for $250, and it was even in the contract. And Scott is able to join you for dinner.

I could eat dinner with him, but it's 250 bucks. And, man, I'll tell you what. I remember one speech I gave in St. Louis, and after it was over, the head of the company stood up and he said, you were twice what we paid you. And so I raised my fee to $500, you know, and so I remember that forever.

That's great. So you started speaking and then have you just been speaking nonstop since then?

Yeah, yeah. And the other thing is, because it's just something I find with such great interest is, you know, companies would say, gosh, what does it take to buy your brain for a year? You know, just to put you on a retainer for access? Or I talk about the ultimate customer experience, and we own the trademark on that term, the federally registered trademark on ultimate customer experience. And so help us train and teach our people how to do that. So we've developed coaching and training programs with those content areas. But for me, the love of this is the keynote presentation.

Yeah. And then you started writing books, right?

Yeah.

And so what was your first book?

Well, there's an interesting story behind that. It's called All Businesses Show Business. You mentioned the movie I Had a Chance, and that was because of one of these little speeches I gave Werner Herzog, the director, this is early in his career, just happened to be there doing a documentary, and he was shooting the group, you know, filming the group I was speaking to. And we met, and he called when I was a senior in college and asked if I wanted to come act in this movie. And it was just on Turner Classic Movies here about a month ago. I mean, it was really such an incredible experience. But, you know, it's. The first book came from FFA asked me to come back and speak at the convention, which was such a great honor. I'd been out of FFA now 10 years, you know, and they asked me to come back for my 10th anniversary convention and be one of the keynote speakers. Well, there's, you know, there's 20,000 people in the audience at this, and Zig Ziglar was one of the other speakers. Well, I. I had met Zig. I didn't know Zig, you know, through our National Speakers association, we met. So I get to the hotel and check in. My wife is with me, and there's a message at the front desk. Would you like to go to dinner tonight? Here's my room number. Call me, Zig. Well, I'm like a Little League shortstop that Derek Jeter has said, hey, you want to go get a bite to eat? I just can't believe it. So we get to dinner, and Zig says, scotty, I was looking, and I couldn't find your book. And I said, well, Zig, I've never written a book. And Zig Ziglar said, I haven't either. And my wife and I look at each other. We got eight on the shelf. What do you mean? He said, but I get up every morning and I write three pages. And after about six months, somebody says, you know, Zig, you got a book? They just smiled at me. And it was a great aha. For me, writing a book seems so daunting of a task, but I could. I could get up the next morning, write three pages. I mean. And so that became the first three pages of all businesses. Show business. Now, the reason I brought up the movie was the local television station in Louisville heard about the premiere of the movie and heard about all this, and they asked me to do an interview. And the news director came out and said, we're looking for a movie reviewer. Would you like to do that? I'm like, wow. Yeah, I love it. And then an executive with a syndication company saw it, was in town for the Kentucky Derby, just happened to see it in his hotel room, and syndicated me to 80 stations. So now I got to go on all these junkets and interview celebrities. So that was kind of the next phase of these interviews was the opportunity to ask Arnold Schwarzenegger and Tom Hanks and Meryl Streep and John Travolta, why did you become successful? There's a million actors. What separated you from the pack? Because I'm fascinated by that. What creates uniqueness in the marketplace? What creates distinction? And so that and some other Things that happened in my life really led me to making that the focal point of what I do. What does it take to stand out in this hyper competitive world that we live in?

And so, real quickly, tell us. You have. How many books do you have? And let's kind of go through the titles so that everybody can kind of hear progression. Yeah.

First one was all business and show business. Because the philosophy of that book was what I was seeing in show business was creating these compelling emotional experiences with the audience. Now, you got to remember this is 20 years ago, right? And it wasn't really talked about there. The term experience or customer experience or employee experience wasn't being discussed. And I would see these movies doing this with an audience and thought, what business doesn't want that? Right. So that was what the philosophy of that book was. Second was what customers really want. Because I think that what business is offering, there were gaps between what business is offering, what customers were looking for. Surveyed thousands of customers and reported on that. The third one is called Collapse of Distinction. Why Do Organizations Fail to Stand Out? Fourth one was Create Distinction. That took that idea to the next level. Fifth one was called the Seven Tenets of Taxidery. It's the cab ride that I had and what I learned from that. I was telling this story in a speech. I was keynoting Express, the clothing store in the mall, and they put it on YouTube and it instantly got 150,000 views. And McGraw Hill saw the video and asked me to write a book about it. So that one was pretty cool.

What was that about? The seven tenants of Taxi Terry, obviously, that's the guy's name. Terry.

Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of a signature story in my keynote speeches about this amazing cab driver. Because how do you differentiate a cab? I mean, they all look the same. They all do the same. Uber. It's disrupting the business. I mean, how do you stand out in that world? And this guy in Jacksonville, Florida, found a way, or found the ways, I should say a system to do it. And so it was kind of my observations on what every business could learn from a cab driver that is just out there being distinctive and really making a difference.

And how did he do? Well, you know what, let's get. Let's get to the last title.

Oh, Iconic. Then is the next one. And that's kind of been the biggest. As you mentioned, Forbes was so kind about it, and American Express has sent all their Platinum Card members something about it. So it's. It's been very nice. A new one that is completed but has not yet been released. It's called Ultimate Customer Experience. And it's a really. It's a departure for me because it's. Gary, there would not be a single thing you would learn by reading this book. It's things you already know, but in today's environment, it's the things that you would want your frontline employees to know. All my other books are kind of pitched towards entrepreneurs and leaders and executives, and this is the first one I've ever done that. That that person would hand. You know, iconic. You know, a bank buys copies for the senior executives, and then they may give it to all the branch managers. But you wouldn't give it to a frontline teller. Right. It's not Ultimate Customer experience is what you want to make sure that Frontline Teller reads. It's the things they need to know about delivering it on the front line. I love that.

And it sounds like the theme that goes through all of them is basically, how do you stand out? How do you. And so what did you learn from writing these books? What advice or what. What do we need to know on how to stand out? And I know you can't give us seven books worth in time we have, but what kinds of things would you like?

There are four cornerstones to the distinction. It begins with clarity. You have to know exactly what your uniqueness is. Most of us tend, strangely enough, we tend to run from our uniqueness. In Australia, they call it the tall poppy syndrome. You know, if you're so unique, you're the first poppy that gets chopped down. But. And there's so much in our culture and in business that encourages us to be like everybody else and not to be. We got to be really clear about where our differences are. An important aspect here is we're chosen for our differences, not for our similarities. No customer ever says, I love doing business with them. They're exactly like everybody else. Right. I didn't propose to my wife by saying, honey, marry me. You're just like every other woman I ever dated. You know, we're chosen for our differences, not our similarities. So we got to be very specific and be very clear about what those are. Second is creativity. What are you doing that's unique? What are you doing that's different? And it's not just different to be different. That's part of the point of distinction. It's something that matters to the people that you're involved with. If I slap every customer in the face, I'm different. But it doesn't mean that it's going to grow my business. So it's creativity. Third is communication. We look for narrative, we look for connection. And through that connection, we build the trust that is so essential today. And so it's not just doing more communication. It is how we drive narrative through our communication. And then the fourth and final one is customer experience focus. It is constantly asking ourselves, how does it feel to do business with us? Now, there's external customers, the folks that spend money with us, and there's internal customers. That's how we look at employees. They're your internal customers, and you have to serve them with an experience just as much as your external ones. So what's the ultimate experience that somebody could have working for us or buying from us? And when you go through those four cornerstones, then you find a way to stand out from the crowd.

So define distinction for us.

I think there's three levels. The first level is sameness. Let's take it from an external customer's perspective. I can't tell the difference between you and your competition.

Right?

If you're in the dry cleaning business, you get my shirts done on time and the same price and everything's the same. And same as is what drives commoditization. Right. I mean, if I can't tell any difference, then the only thing I can do to at that point is maybe cut my price, and then customers will like that. So it's a very dangerous place, but it's where a lot of businesses are. Second is differentiation. They say that, okay, here's where we don't do it like our competitors do. The challenge with that is I've seen so many. We've worked with so many businesses that say, here's what makes us different. And then you survey the customers, and it doesn't matter. You know, I mean, just because your logo is blue instead of green doesn't mean the customer thinks you're different. It just means, you know, distinction means you have pursued your uniqueness in a way that has significance for those groups that matter most. So we have. You know, there's a lot of restaurants in Indianapolis that I can't tell the difference between one and another. There are some that you know, are different. They have a uniqueness about it. But St. Elmo's Steakhouse in Indianapolis is distinctive. It's distinctive in how they treat their employees. It's distinctive in what they do at the meal. I mean, they've got a shrimp cocktail sauce. My buddy Jay Baer calls it a talk trigger. It's something that you got to tell everybody About. And here's a steakhouse in Indianapolis that has higher revenue than Tavern on the Green in New York City. How does that happen? It is because they have found a way to be so remarkable, so distinctive, that they attract. And to me, that's what my business should be about. Every business should be.

So it was about. What was the word? Pursue your uniqueness for those that matter.

Ah, so you got to know your client then.

Yeah, you do. I mean, and that's part of a lot of discussions I have as well. You know, what does your client really want? Well, we think what they really, you think? One of the lines I hate in business is we're going to exceed customer expectations. So then I say, okay, what's your customer expect? Well, we think, really, how do you exceed an expectation of which you're unaware? What if they expect you're not going to suck? I mean, boy, you're setting the bar high. Really there, aren't you? So there are these platitudes that we say that I think really many times. I just don't get it. They just have no meaning. It's saying, the sky is blue. We're going to see. Really. So your competition wants to be below customer expectation.

What should the term be? What would be a better way for companies to talk about that? Because you know what they're trying to say, but they didn't say it in a way that really made sense.

We are going to connect with our customers at such a level it will ensure repeat and referral business. Much better.

Much better.

Right. Because if I exceed your expectations, then it assumes I know your expectations. But if I say what I'm going to do is going to be so good, you're going to come back and buy more and you're going to tell your friends about us. Now, all of a sudden, not only to me, is that a better way of phrasing it, but it's also very measurable. Now I can say, okay, what's our retention statistics? Now I can say, how much referral business are we acquiring? And so if we're not getting repeat and referral business, then we haven't hit that target of being so unique and compelling that we're driving the results that we desire.

Tell us maybe another example of one that has been able to do that. And are there any examples that you can think of, maybe a company that wasn't doing that and then started doing that?

Yeah, one of the case studies in the book Iconic is the Fairmont Scottsdale Princess did a lot of work with those Folks, and they're just absolutely wonderful. And so what we did was break it down and say, okay, it's not just saying our resort is going to be distinctive. Okay, then how do you do that? What's a distinctive front desk experience? What does that look like? What does that feel like? Experience is about feeling. So one of the things that they did that I thought was so brilliant was for people who travel a lot, every front desk is the same. Every experience is the same. So now they have a guy that takes care of two golden retrievers that are in the lobby area when you walk in. And the golden retrievers wag their tail when they see you. And golden retrievers are so sweet, and they want you to give them a little pet on the head and that which is very unique. So then you keep layering onto that. So now the golden retrievers have names, Bixby and Griggs. And so then they created. Let's just keep building onto that, right? You know, you go in the room, and when they're doing the housekeeping at the end of the day and leaving the chocolate mint on your pillow, there's a little thing with a paw print on, you know, saying, well, I won't be curled up by your bed. I hope you, too, get a good night's sleep. Then they took it the next step. They've got a coloring books so that the mom or dad traveling could pick up the coloring book about the dogs and say, look, this is where I stayed. Color in this. So now they've even had. So now it's gotten to the point that families will bring, you know, the mom stays there on a business trip and then brings her whole family back the next trip because the kids want to meet the dogs. And all of these things that are going on now, that's distinctive. That's, you know, the awards that they've received since going. And we also did. What's distinctive housekeeping? What's a distinctive gift shop? What's a distinctive property? One of the things that they created was a wave tech pool there so that you can, in the middle of the desert in Arizona, surf the waves of the pool. So with a sandy beach and everything else. So just an amazing place, an amazing property. And it all began with, how do we approach this differently? You know, let's not be bound by the rules of what a front desk. I mean, look at the front. Yes, there are rules. You've got to. If I go to a front desk, I got to get a key. I got to get checked in. I got to leave my credit card. So you get paid those things. But why do we have to make that such a similar experience to everybody else? Let's figure out how we make that unique. And to me, that's exactly what it's about.

It feels like they're going the opposite direction in Las Vegas. Says you and I met just a week ago in Las Vegas. And the hotel, I'm not going to name it, but the hotel we were at had almost the exact opposite of that. Did you have to go by the front desk?

Yep. Absolutely.

And what did you think of the experience of nobody at the front desk, nobody to talk to, wait in line to get your key and check in? I personally didn't like it.

I didn't like it either. And I think that's a hotel that's competing on price. And I don't think that's a good place to be in business today. I mean, are you going to say to anybody, hey man, the next time I'm going to Vegas, I'm going back to you? And I were both there for one reason. The convention was there. And the other thing is, if enough people would say to the folks holding that convention, you know, this really, the meeting was a great experience, but the property where you had it isn't, and it's not really congruent. If enough people would say that to them, I'm sure they'd take it out and move it someplace else. So it's too competitive now to be average. It's too competitive now to just be. I mean, that's the only reason I stayed there. I wouldn't go back. No. And here's the thing. It's not like it was terrible. It was just average.

And the room was nice. Actually, the room was pretty darn nice.

The room was nicer than I thought it would be based on how inferior the check in experience was, you know. And that's the other thing. Years ago, Jan Carlson, who was then the president of SAS Airlines, one of his mantras was that everything matters. You know, if you're a passenger on the plane and you drop the tray table down and it's dirty and it's got a coffee stain there, he said, we look at it as just, oh, we should have wiped that down better. The customer says, man, what if you take care of your jet engines the same way you're taking care of the tray? And I'm sure that the managers of those hotels sit there and go, yeah, but you know, our rooms are pretty good. And, you know, and that's. I Thought, boy, the room's going to be a dump because look at how bad the check in experience is going to be, you know, So I was pleasantly surprised by the room, but I'm still not going back.

No, something simple. You know, I love that story about the Scottsdale princess because that makes you think about what little thing could I do that would make such a big difference?

You're exactly right, Gary. And there's where I think a lot of businesses slip up, is that they think it's going to be some hugely capital intensive infusion that has to come to make this enormous difference. What would have happened if, in the same space we got checked in, they had enough people staffing it, but also they would come around from behind the desk like they do at other properties and hand you the key and say, we are so glad that you're here with us today and enjoy your experience and is there anything else that we could do? Or even, here's a bottle of water or, I mean, it's less expensive to do that than it is to remodel the rooms. Again, it doesn't take this huge capital outlay. It's about. And that's where our messages dovetail so well. It's about understanding yourself and your why and then exploiting it. My friend Larry Wingate always says when he uses that word, and I mean in the best way, exploit can be both positive and negative. It's exploiting that, leveraging that to its maximum potential.

So here I have a question for you, because there's a company that comes to mind for me right now. They have spent a fortune on creating a great, having all the right stuff there, but they're really struggling with how do I get my team to create that experience, the distinctive experience? How do you get your team up to speed, if you will, or engaged or connected to it, to make the difference? Because if the team doesn't do it, you're dead in the water.

You're exactly right. And it has to begin with the CEO. I mean, it has to begin with the leader making that job one, not just giving it lip service. I've been at so many meetings where the CEO gets up and says, people are our greatest asset, and then they treat them like an expense. An asset is something I invest in, it's something I nurture, I want it to grow. An expense is something I seek to control and minimize. And so leaders get up and say, man, you're our greatest asset. And then they go back to the office and think about, now, how do we make sure that these people work 38 hours a week, so they're not working 40, so we got to pay benefit. I mean, you can't have it both ways. And so to me, that's where it begins, is that the CEO has to say, or the business owner in a small business has to say from the very beginning, this is the most important thing, our culture. I mean, if you really think about it, all the customer experience is. Is the outward expression of your internal culture. So if it's not right on the inside, it ain't going to be right on the outside. So you've got to start. And that's where the tools that you have. And that, to me, becomes so incredibly valuable because it helps everybody attain their potential, which is the first step of a supportive, positive culture is we're here for the growth of everyone.

I love it. How do you define culture?

I'm asked that a lot, and I always think of what Potter Stewart said about pornography. I know it when I see it. I mean that in a very different way. Culture. Culture is how it feels. That's not very precise. You know, there are some places that even as a customer, you walk in and you just feel. I had a feeling about the hotel that we were in, you know, just from the way, you know, I live here in Vegas, just from the way the valet parkers treated me, as opposed to other properties. Seeing that long line to check in, but not enough people working. Just so many different things like that. I'll bet you can just tell internally they beat their people up. You know, internally, you can just. I didn't see very many people smiling, happy to be there. Like I see at other places where I go to, like. I mean, it's an overused. It's a cliche. But most of the people I encounter that work at Southwest Airlines are pretty happy with working for Southwest. Yep. You don't have to tell me that they have a positive culture. Their people show it by the way that they deal with customers. You don't have to tell me that that hotel probably has a pretty rotten internal culture because they show it by the way they treat their customers. So it's, for lack of a better term, it's the feeling of engagement that you get internally within any organization.

And that's kind of what. Now, is that more in line with what your last book, the Ultimate Customer Experience, is about?

Yeah, absolutely. Even iconic, I mean, talks about the importance of that. Of the five iconic factors, the fifth one is reciprocal respect. And that's one of the things that I think is difficult in organizations. The leaders want respect, but they don't think they have to demonstrate it the other direction. And respect is reciprocal. I use as an analogy, think of a personal relationship. If I'm totally committed and you're the only person in my life and the person I'm directing that to thinks, oh, man, we're just dating, we can date around. It's not reciprocal. That relationship isn't going to work. We seek now, if I'm just dating around and you're just dating around, we're great, you know, and if we have a significant relationship, but we haven't decided if it's a fully committed one and we're both on the same page, we're great. But when the relationships get in trouble is when the level of commitment is not reciprocal. And why wouldn't that be true in business? Why wouldn't that be true? And so same thing's true with customers. Businesses say, we want loyal customers. Okay, what are you doing to reward me for my loyalty? Yeah.

So, Scott, last question for you. I know we've been here a while, and thank you.

Oh, it's good talking to you.

What's the best piece of advice you've ever given or the best piece of advice you've ever gotten?

There was a mentor of mine in the speaking business named Grady Nutt Nut. Unfortunately, Grady was killed in a plane crash coming over from a speech many years ago. But early in my career, he was a mentor of mine. I admired him so much that I tried to sound like him. I tried to be him. And it wasn't, you know, it wasn't I was trying to rip him off or anything like that in terms of a material or style. It was just sincere admiration to the point of adoration. And Grady took me out to lunch and he said, I am flattered by how much you obviously like what I do. But he said, if you're trying to be the next greedy nut, the best you can hope for is second place.

He said, but you got a corner on the Scott McCain market. And so your job is to learn from me and other speakers and other people that you admire, but your other job is to be the best Scott McCain you could possibly be, because that's something that no one else could can be. And that's the best. To this day, that's the best advice I think I've ever received is not to run from my uniqueness, not to be content with being like everybody else. It doesn't mean there's anything wrong with being somebody else. It just Means that the world is a better place when you and I and all of us be the best us that we can be. I love it.

Which is right in line with your why of challenging the status quo and thinking differently.

I hope so. I want to be aligned. You know, congruency is important.

So if there are people that are listening that want to connect with you, follow you know where you're speaking, come to your next event.

Sure.

How should they get in touch with you?

Best way is just go to my overall website, which is scottmcain.com it's MCK A I N spelled a little differently, but scottmcane.com and there's information there on all the services that we provide and all the things that we do with our team spread across the country. So if anybody wants to ball do that, I would certainly appreciate it.

Awesome. Scott, thank you so much for being here today and taking the time and I look forward to staying in touch as we move forward.

Same here, my friend. I appreciate you. And by the way, thank you too for letting me take the assessment. It's profound and it's very, very cool. So it knocked me out. So thank you.

Thank you. Have a great day.

You too.

So it's time for our new segment, guess the why. And for this week, I want to use Chris Rock because he's been in the news a lot lately. What do you think Chris Rock's why is? And so recently he was just on stage where he got slap across the face for telling a joke about Will Smith's wife. And that's been in the news quite a bit lately. So that'll kind of date this. So it kind of made me think about what would Chris Rock's why be? And then I learned a little bit about his childhood and a little bit how he was the small kid that got picked on all the time and he was different and he was unique and he didn't fit in. And so that really made me think that probably his why is challenge. To challenge the status quo and think differently, to think outside the box, to do things differently. I think he was forced to do that and he did do that and that's really been his why. So what do you think Chris Rock's why is? I'd love your opinion. Thank you so much for listening. If you've not yet discovered your why, you can do so at why institute.com you can use the code podcast50 and you'll get it at half price. If you love the beyond, you'd why podcast. Please don't forget to subscribe below and leave us a review and a rating on whatever platform you're using to listen to our podcast. Thank you so much and I will see you next week.

I really hope you enjoyed today's episode and that through today's guest, you heard how important it is to know your why and how impactful it can be in your life and the lives of those around you. Be sure to head over to whyinstitute.com and discover your why today. Remember, the more you know about yourself, the more you'll know about others. I'm Dr. Gary Sanchez and I'll see you on the next episode.