Doing Things The Right Way And Getting Results

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So today we're going to be talking about the why of Right way. Now, if you remember, these are people that like structure and process and systems. They are all about getting results. So they find things that work and they stick to them and they use them because they know they can get predictable results. So if you haven't discovered your why yet, go to whyinstitute.com and discover your why. And then come back and listen to the rest of the podcast because I've got a great guest for you today. His name is Gor chaudhary and I'm 90% sure I just said that right. And he has been a digital marketer for the last 20 years and he's grown multiple million dollar companies mastering the art of buying paid traffic. So now he teaches people how to reach more people by creating engaging tribes and raving fans. Gore, welcome to the podcast. Thanks for being here.

Hey, Gary, thanks for having me on. It's a pleasure.

Hey, well, listen, let's start for those, there's going to be a lot of people that know you and there's going to be some people that don't know you. So for those that don't know you, tell us a little bit about your story. Where did you start? How did you get into the space of Internet marketing?

Well.

This is going to be an interesting story. I mean, it's been almost 20 years now, Gary, coming on 21 years that I've been in the digital marketing realm. And believe it or not, you know, I didn't have any clue that I'd end up in this field when I came across digital marketing. Actually was studying to be an accountant and I did end up getting my cpa. I did end up, you know, practicing accounting, going to the corporate world. But at the same time there was, you know, that kind of that fork in your road when you're in college. And the fork that kind of came into my road at that moment was the Internet. And you know, this Internet was, it was fairly brand new back in 94, 95. I didn't actually get really involved in the Internet until like 97. My sister, you know, she came to me, she goes, you know, this is pretty cool thing, this Internet. And I was like, ah, just another fad.

And before you know it, I got onto it. And that's also when kind of email was new and everybody was emailing each other. And that was kind of neat because now you're communicating with people all over the world, right? And I come from, you know, I've had a fascination with computers. So I was in, I don't know if you know, of the bulletin board system days and modems and connecting with people through there, but now here you have with email, this whole, this whole global thing. So while I was studying to be an accountant, and you'll remember this, Gary, I mean, how did we share a good old joke? Back in the 90s, before there was social media or Facebook or.

Snapchat, it was through email. And would email you a joke, you'd think it's hilarious, or you would forward it on and on and on and on. Before you know it, you're looking at this email that's been, you can see the thread that's been forwarded on like a couple of hundred times. And it's like, wow, right? And I don't know how, but I had a friend who emailed me a joke. I found it hilarious. And one of the things I noticed was that the guy, the original person who had sent out the joke, was actually saying, hey, listen, if you want to get the jokes from me regularly, just sign up to my list. And, you know, I ended up signing up to his list so that I could get this joke a day, you know, get a good laugh per day. And so he started sending out this joke a day. And, you know, at one point he sent out an email saying, hey, I've run out of jokes, so if anybody has any good jokes, send them in. And before you know it, because his list is so huge, he probably has jokes to tell for the rest of his life. I mean, he doesn't even have to create his own content. I mean, I mean, he's got his tribe building the content for him. But what kind of threw me off was, and I've always been, Gary, an entrepreneur at heart. And I've always had, you know, before the Internet, I had a couple of businesses that didn't succeed. I was always kind of looking for that opportunity. And it kind of hit me when he sent out a joke. But before the joke, I noticed what was called a sponsored ad. And I said, well, that's kind of neat. He's kind of trying to monetize his email. And at that point I had, you know, I'd had in my teen years a failed mail order business of selling these books. And I thought, well, you know, if I could advertise to this list, then I could maybe get rid of all these books. So I inquired to him because I knew that he had over a hundred thousand people on his list because he always put the circulation number that how many people he was sending it out to. And I asked him, I go, how much would it cost to advertise on your joke list? And he, he said, 300 bucks. And I said, 300 bucks to reach 100,000 people. That's a pretty darn good deal, right? I said, that's perfect. Where do I send the money? Here's my ad. Can you run it tomorrow? And this is like kind of showing my age and going way back. There was no such thing as LOL back then. It was just Baha.

He emailed me back with a big ba ha ha ha. He goes, dude, I'm booked for the next six months. So, you know, at that point I'm thinking, okay, you know, because I'm studying to be an account. It didn't take long for me to do the math. Spending out a joke a day, 365 days times $300American comes out to about $108,000American. And I'm Canadian. And at that time the exchange rate was like a dollar 2.2. So I go, you know, 108 times 1.2 is about $130,000. And here I am busting my butt to become a professional accountant, and we're literally competing and tripping over each other to get a $35,000 entry junior position in one of these CPA firms. And here we have a guy who's sending out a joke a day that he's didn't even write. He just asked his list of 100,000 people to supply him with jokes for the next three, four decades. Sending out a joke a day every single morning, hitting the enter key. He's making 130 grand and he's taking the rest of the day off. And that's when it kind of hit me. And because I'm my why is to do things the right way. It didn't take long for me to reverse engineer his whole everything he was doing because he had already had the process and the system in place, who his hoster was, who his server was, how he, you know, outlined the email and where he. How he got the content, because I could clearly see it, you know, so that was kind of my first venture into digital marketing. I did something similar. I didn't do a joke list. I did a useless facts list. And I started growing that and selling ad space.

Wow.

In emails. And you Know, it came to such a point that I got so involved in digital marketing and I got so good at it that I used to go to my, my accounting job. And by the time the 10am meeting rolled around, I had made more that day than in and my, my bi weekly paycheck. So, you know, at a certain point it came to my mind, why am I here and why am I doing this? And then I left that and I decided to pursue this full time because there was a process, there was a system, and that's pretty much with a lot of different things. And I figured, okay, if that's the system, that's the process, that's the right way, it's the proven way, and that's what I've been doing. And that's why I think that, you know, my specialty is, you know, really with paid traffic, whether it's with Facebook ads or Google or Bing, because there's a process, there's a way to do it. And these, all these networks tell you, here's the process, here's the platform, here's how to do it, here's the right way, and we go ahead and we do it. And that's what's brought me here to 2018, 21 pretty amazing years later.

That really is amazing because you. So you were able to. So 21 years ago was. That was 97 you said.

Yep.

So in 97, you figured out paid ads. And I'm sure it's changed quite a bit since then. But what I'm hearing you say is there's a predictability to it. Once you get your systems down, you know how much you pay, you know what you're going to get back.

Yeah. I mean, you know, all in all. And you know, one of our good friends, Steve Gray, said this so eloquently once to an audience when he was presenting. You know, once you buy traffic, Gary, whether it's from Facebook, Google or Bing, and you've done it a few times, it's pretty much mechanical process. Mm. The real magic is in the marketing and what you do to reach out to your tribe, your prospects, your potential customers, that's gonna have the biggest impact, that's gonna generate the sales. So I mean, you know, you could buy the same traffic, I could buy the same traffic from Google. But once again, you know, yours is very different in the form that you could be sending traffic to a personal video of you where I'm sending traffic to you a because I'm shy or something, I'm sending it to a, a dull sales page and yours is more impact, impactful because you're a video, you're, you're, you know, it's more emotional, it's more thought provoking, it's more relationship building. And you out convert me because that's where the magic is. It's not in the art of the buying. The traffic, the traffic itself is the process, the system, the proven way, the right way. And the marketing is really the creative way kind of thinking out of the box.

So the, the power is in the message, the marketing is in the message. Is that right?

100%. Everything else is just a medium to get that message out. And I think that's where a lot of people struggle with, is building that medium or which medium to use. And I mean, there's, you know, I always tell people that, you know, the medium you want to use to reach people is that you really need to understand who your prospect or your potential customers are and find out where they're, where they're hanging out. I mean, you know, if I was selling hot dogs on the corner and you were selling hot dogs on the corner, I would pretty much pack my cart and wheel down to the nearest football stadium because I'd probably sell a lot more hot dogs standing outside of that than you would on your street corners, because that's where the people are. So I think that if people really understand who their tribe is, who their raving fan base is, doesn't matter if you're a dentist, doesn't matter if you're a marketer, doesn't matter if you're a fitness instructor. You need to know where your audience is, whether it's on Facebook or Instagram or Snapchat. And when you really take the time to understand these platforms, Snapchat, you're not going to find 60 year old, 70 year olds on Snapchat. You're going to find 60 and 70 year olds reading the newspaper. And if you want to sell something to that demographic, you're probably better off putting out newspaper ads than you are getting on Snapchat. But yeah, if you want to reach millennials, then maybe Instagram or Snapchat is a better option. Whereas if maybe a slightly older demographic, it's Facebook. You just need to find out where they're hanging out, Gary. And that's where you're going to have, you know, it's one thing to be able to create an impactful message, but it's one thing to get the right people to hear it.

So what's the process you would tell people to go through what to find where their people are hanging out.

Well, number one, I think you need to understand who your, who your audience is. Is it females, is it males, is it 20 year olds, is it millennials, is it middle aged people, seniors, what are their interests? And it's beautiful because, you know, Gary, there's so many competitive tools out there within Google or Facebook where they, you know, they have what is called an affinity, kind of like an affinity score, affinity index that they can tell you especially. And that's why I love paid traffic, is I can buy traffic, I can generate 10,000 sales and Google and Facebook will tell me who that type of person is. I'll give you an example. We uploaded all of our buyers list for one of our products to Facebook. Facebook spit back that your ideal prospect is female between the age of 45 and 55, in a middle management position, college educated, and she likes to drive Ford cars. That detail. Yeah. So once you understand who your person is, the next question is as well, where are they hanging out? And you know, that brings me back to another interesting story. I mean back in the day, this was going back a decade, one of the most popular things was ringtones on the people's phone. And there were companies that were paying out as much as $20 if you could generate them a lead. And a lead was just a form of somebody giving their cell phone number and boom, it give you, they give you 20 bucks. And you know, and I, and I'm very thankful that the, you know, the affiliate manager, you know, I inquired, I go, because I thought it was kind of silly. I mean, you know, who puts their phone number in to download these ringtones and then ends up paying $20 a month to get more ringtones. And I said to my goal, because I would never personally pay for a ringtone, and I said to him, I go, who's who does this? And he goes, oh sure. And he gave me a complete demographic profile. It was young females between the ages of 17 to 21, African American in the United States who are downloading these ringtones. Once I was able to understand, Gary, of who the person was, and I never would have guessed that was, that was the main demographic. I said to myself, well, if I was an 18 year old African American girl, what websites would I be hanging out with? And we basically built a massive Rolodex of hip hop websites, you know, reggae websites and all of these things that we found this demographic was visiting and we crushed it when we started targeting those websites with our advertisements because that's where the audience was, that's where our fan base was or our prospects or leads. And once we were able to target that and get into that and understand that we were able to get our marketing message out. Does that make sense?

For sure, for sure. So get back to. Go back for a second to that. You said you downloaded everything to Facebook and then they came back with a report. What is that again?

I've never heard of that. That is called Facebook audience audiences. I think Facebook audiences where they will analyze your audience for you and they will tell you.

The profile of your audience. And it's the same thing. Google Analytics has a feature also based on your, you know, if you're, you're passing their conversion pixel from AdWords, they will tell you what the interests of those buyers who purchase your product on. And you'd be surprised. Then you can take those interests and you can actually target those interests on Google. Anybody who's interested in, let's say fishing, because, you know, one of the weirdest things that you'll find is that, you know, I never thought that the people who are purchasing my product would be interested in.

Fly fishing, which is completely unrelated to your industry. But on the, the affinity scores out, you know, off the charts. And you start targeting that interest because that's your audience. So Google knows where they're hanging out and you'll be able to get your marketing message out to them. And it's the same thing. I think that, I think one of the most underutilized things, Gary.

When it comes to marketers, is the ability for you to use influencers on social media, especially on Instagram, on Facebook and Snapchat, and going to these people who have followings, a few million people, and trying to get them to.

Share your message, whether you're doing it for personal reasons or whether you're doing it for commercial reasons. I mean, obviously if you're doing it for commercial reasons, a lot of these people who have millions of followers, whether it's on YouTube, Snapchat or whatever, most cases they're not even, they don't even know how to monetize that following. And you say to them, can you send out this message for 250 bucks, they'll do it. And to be able to get your marketing message out to your prospects or your audience, especially with an influencer who your audience resonates with, is very, very powerful. Very, very. If you're a motivational guru and for whatever reason, Tony Robbins team agrees to let you by a tweet on their Twitter feed of millions of followers. How impactful and how powerful would that be in getting your message out?

Oh, wow. I'm sure most people don't even think about that. So how do you go about finding somebody that would be in your demographic? Is there a way to research them on Instagram? I'm just starting to get onto Instagram and so I'm like novice on Instagram and I'm sure there's gonna be a lot of people listening to this that, you know, have heard about Instagram but haven't really done much on it. How do you go about finding that person?

Well, I mean there's a lot of. Once again, because I'm in paid traffic, there's a lot of competitive intelligence tools, Gary. There's even tools that'll tell you on Instagram. I mean, you could even Google it, the you know who has the largest followings on Instagram because there's services that'll rank some of these influencers on Instagram and they'll share with you the size of their following. You know, I'll give you an example. I mean, we asked a baby company on Instagram to make a post to their following of 250,000 people for one of our baby products and they did it for 250 bucks. Wow. Not only did that add I think about 6,000 fans to our Instagram channel, that brought in a slew of orders, but I think they got smart because now they're asking for a few thousand dollars if they want us to do it again. So the idea here is that you, you can, if you can reach out to the people who have.

A great deal of influence. I mean, just, just look at Kylie Jenner, Gary. I don't know if you read the report, four or five days ago she made a tweet about Snapchat and it dropped her valuation by $1.3 billion.

Wow.

All the tweet was, is anybody still using Snapchat? And then.

And it tells you if a 20 year old can knock $1.3 billion off of a company's net worth, think about the influence she has. And I mean, you know, just the fact that people thinking about if she can do that to a company, if she had actually endorsed something for somebody, it's the same thing as Oprah. When Oprah endorses a book, Gary, or she endorses a product, you're gonna have an inventory problem within 24 hours, I'll tell you that much. Because once. And she's an influencer and if you can reach those people, that's Amazing. But one of the things that I, you know, I try to tell people is it's. I mean, it's great to reach influencers. It's great to reach, you know, get paid traffic. But at some point, you need to build your own tribe and be an influencer of that tribe, because the more that you can build your authority in a market, more you can build your influence, and more. You know, I'm sure you've read that article about you only really need to have 1,000 true fans to build a sustainable business. So, you know, people don't need to have, you know, 3 million followers on Instagram. If you have a thousand true fans, that's more than enough to start getting your message out. And especially if they're raving fans of yours, they'll retweet, re. Share, like, all of your stuff. And that's the beauty of social media, that you can get that virality, even from people who you never even reach. Just, you know, seeing your stuff and retweeting it or sharing it with their. With their tribe.

That's, I think, a big misconception. You just hit right there. Because I kind of feel that some way, I kind of feel like, you know, you look around, you see people that have all these followers, and you're wondering, man, they must just be killing it. And then when you find out they're really not. And so. But you can easily get caught up into that.

You can. I mean, you know, there's, you know, you look at a lot of. A lot of stuff, and you're just in awe when you see, wow, 3 million followers, 4 million followers. And you think to myself, or you think to yourself, man, if I had 3,4 million followers, then I'd be set because my message would be everywhere. But in most cases, you know, in some cases, Gary, the ones who do have the massive followings, they never did it in the first place to monetize, or they did it because they believed in their message and people resonated with that, or it was just dumb luck in some cases. I mean, if you were born to. In the Kardashian family, then just automatically by default, you're probably gonna have a million followers. Just. That's just kind of the nature of it, right? But then there are. There are people that you see, Gary, on YouTube all the time that are now classified as YouTube stars because they grew their channels. And then before you know it, YouTube stepped in and said, well, hey, keep creating content. We'll start sharing the revenues with you. And before you know, it now they're getting movie deals and you see some of these people on Jimmy Fallon late night now, and they started off as YouTube stars. I mean, you know, Justin Bieber, you know, his whole thing was he was found on YouTube. The question is, is, you know, how do you influence your audience and every platform, Gary? I mean, in some cases there is a proven way, there is a system there. You know, the question is, how patient are you? Follow that right way. And I'm kind of the right way guy. Then that's why I buy all of these courses from people who say, here's how to get 60,000 Instagram followers in less than 30 days. Oh, okay. Well, this guy seems to have a system. This guy seems to have the, you know, one of the right ways. I'm not saying the only way. And that's why I read all of this stuff. And.

I think it's really important that you study and you understand and you build that tribe to get that influence.

What have you found to be the best way to create your tribe?

I found the best way, and I don't know if it's because I'm old school Gary, or whatever, but I found building my email list and I've been doing that since 97. And I have found, you know, when you have your own email list, you have the ability to control your message. For example, you know, with Facebook, they've killed the fan pages in terms of getting organic reach. Now they're not permitting it anymore. You start a Facebook group, you still don't have full control because they can shut that down at any time. If you have an Instagram channel or whatever channel, it might be on another platform for whatever reason at any time, Gary, if they decide, well, you know what, we want to start charging you or we just want to shut you down. You can't get your message out. But one thing with email, they can't. Once it's your. The person's giving you their email address and giving you permission, email them. You control the message because you control the platform.

You know, I've seen that with other people. I know a gentleman who has this massive, massive following on LinkedIn, but he has no real way to connect with them. I mean, he can't connect with them on an ongoing basis in a very powerful way. And he's trying to get them off of LinkedIn, his own personal email list. And that's been a huge challenge for this guy. He has a million followers. Wow. But he doesn't have the influence that you're talking about. When you have your own email list. And I know, I never really thought about that.

I thought, well, I got to be.

On all these different social media platforms, but essentially I don't own anything when they're there.

Well, not only that, but especially if you're, if you're, you know, you're building a business online, Gary, you'll find that. And this hasn't changed for 20 years. And I, and I can show you the statistics that prove this. Email will always outperform any other medium of communication in it, hands down, whether it's social media, whether it's organic, whether it's paid traffic, whether it's banner ads on media buying, or whether it's, whether it's. Whatever mechanism online there is, nothing trumps email in terms of ROI and actually making money. Because the reality is that even though people will tell you things like emails dead or things like that, or your deliverability is down, you know, as long as you're following a certain system to make sure that your emails are getting delivered and you're following a system to make sure your systems are. Your emails are getting opened and not placed in the spam folder, I mean, there's a right way to do email. And that's why, you know, recently we invested $25,000 to learn from somebody about the right way to do email in terms of deliverability, to make sure that you are getting your message across to your prospects. And that can have a profound effect. And I have yet, and like I said, I'm not saying that for some people who have achieved success, Gary, that if you don't have an email list, it's not going to work. Contrary, there's people that have proved it. But I'm talking overall in terms of roi, email will always trump other, other methods of trying to reach your audience. So, Gore.

That reminds me, Gary, you brought up a good point. You ever hear that website Little Things?

Little Things.

Yeah. No, it was a popular website and I think it was. It brought together, like mothers and women in terms of items of discussion. It was a thriving e commerce brand that just went belly up a few days ago because Facebook changed their algorithm.

So a couple of. Yeah, so a couple of podcasts ago, I interviewed Chris Walker, who, you know, and he was saying the same thing, that they've been shut down multiple times and they just, they gotta, like, rebuild everything. They count so heavily on Facebook for their traffic that if they shut them down, they're out of business. Yeah, it's scary.

So on one side he was talking about that, but then on the other side, he was saying what you said as well, which is how predictable paid traffic is. And so for me, for somebody who's just getting going in their business, so we've got a lot of experts that will be listening to this that are trying to figure out how to get their message out. And they're. They're thinking about paid versus free. And reality is, there's not much free anymore, is there?

No. And in reality, Gary, is it really free when you're investing time to get that free traffic that might not get the results that you want? Six weeks, three months down the road, when you're trying to get that organic reach? And even then, it's not predictable, it's not scalable, it's not consistent. Whereas with paid traffic, at least it's predictable, consistent, it's scalable. And my idea, especially with platforms like Facebook, where they make it absolutely difficult, my whole objective on those platforms is to get the lead off the platform and into your own ecosystem so that you control the message. You can follow up multiple times. Because I don't know if you heard. The average cost per click in 2017 running a Facebook ads campaign was $1.72.

Wow.

There's very few people who can make a profit when they're buying clicks for $1.72. And that's what, you know, that's a totally different discussion on who's the smartest marketer in the room in terms of customer lifetime value. But it's only going to get more and more expensive and inventory is going to drop. And it's just, that's just the reality of it. And that's why I'm a firm believer, especially if people are struggling to get their message out, you got to bring them into your own ecosystem. You got to bring them into your own. You got to create your own tribe within, in your own house so that you can communicate at any time.

You know, when we met and I was. You were talking about paid advertising, it kind of made me nervous because I had never done any paid advert, paid marketing, paid advertising on those platforms. So I'd always thought, hey, I just put out a video and everybody sees it, they like it, they share it. And now I make some money. Maybe on a really small scale, you can do that. But when Chris was here talking, it was interesting. I asked him, I said, so, Chris, how much? I didn't ask him on the podcast, but offline. I asked him, kris, how much do you spend on Facebook? And he said to me, I spend as much as I can possibly spend. And I thought, that's a really interesting thought. He said, because I know if I spend a dollar, how much I'm going to get back. So I try to spend, I try to find ways to spend money because I know I'm going to get a certain return back. So the more I spend, the more I make.

Yeah. That reminds me of a coaching call I did once with a, with a customer. And he stunned me. Gary. This was a kid who had been doing Internet marketing or digital marketing for seven months. And I said, so how things going? And he said, up to about 5 million bucks. And I was just like.

Seven months. I go, maybe we should switch this call around. And then I get advice from you. And we laughed about. And I said, so, you know, what was the deal? How did you pull it off? And he really simplified it, Gary. I mean, he was promoting an offer where he knew that his earnings per click was 50 cents. So he said he made it his duty to live, breathe and die getting every 25 cent click he could find on the Internet, any paid tribe. And that made sense. That's how simple it was. If wanted, double your money, you know, you're gonna get 50 cents per click because he had the data to show it. On average, he made 50 cents per click. He made it his duty to go out there and find every 25 click he could. 25 cent click he could to simple math, right. And because paid traffic is so scalable, Kris is right. Gary. If he knows what his metrics is and he's making a dollar EPC and Facebook's giving him 50 cent clicks and he's gonna cry to Facebook day and night, he's gonna go to his grandma's house, he's gonna ask her for money, he's gonna go to the bank and take a loan. Because if Facebook's gonna give you a buck EPC for every 50 cents they take from you, man, you're gonna do that as you're gonna try to scale as hard as you can.

Yeah. So, hey, what would you say goer is the best way you found to convert a prospect to a buyer?

The best way we found was to do a lead magnet, which is basically giving something of value to the prospect. And that lead magnet could come in the form of a report, a PDF report, a video, a audio file, a cheat sheet. They're very popular infographic cheat sheets or.

Other items of value, case studies, things like that. And once you're able to exchange that value in terms of getting the person's name and their email address. Then there's a whole ongoing process of education and an email sequence that could then put them onto a webinar and you get them on the webinar. And I found in my experience, Gary, especially if you're selling a high ticket item, that once you get somebody onto a webinar, that is literally the best mechanism to sell somebody on a high ticket item. And when I mean high ticket, I mean $500, $1,000, $2,000. Because with a webinar it's much more personalized. You can do a much better job selling your product or service than you can else wise. So that's kind of the path that we take our prospects through in order to convert them into a customer. And that's worked the best for us.

So you pay for the traffic, which leads to a lead magnet, which means. Which then you have them on your email list, which then you educate them. How much do you educate them? How many times do you connect with them before you ask them to a webinar?

Or is it probably about five to six times? We'll give them good value. We'll just, you know, remind them about the value and the lead magnet. Then we'll educate them, then we'll build up to the webinar, and then we'll do a webinar promotion. And then even after the webinar, we'll still provide them with good value. And you know, one of the people that has done it really well is, is Dr. Axe. And with his leaky gut course, he sold over 40,000 placements of that course at about $200. And he had a webinar sequence on Facebook. It was just this cold traffic to a webinar sequence where he was giving away free gift for registering for his webinar. And then he took him through really dialed in webinar process. And I think within, you know, a year or two of running, that They've amassed over 6 to 7 million dollars in sales of an info product. So.

You'Re that guy goer that goes out there and you look for things that work, right? I mean, you probably just can't help yourself from.

No, I mean, you know, I'll test and the more I can find things that work, the more I'll dial in the process and then just go the right way if this is the way to do it, you know, and normally what I'll do is because, you know, I'll reach out to other experts on different tractors, traffic platforms and I'll say, okay, tell me what's the right way to do it and we'll do this, this, this, this, and that's kind of the way I'll implement it. I won't try to think out of the box or trying to unconventional ways of trying to get more traffic from Google Adwords, because to me that, you know, the fastest way to the end of the race is just to do it the right way. And that's just my why.

And you just go through that and it's worked out well. I'm not saying it's the only way to do it. I'm sure there's tons of other ways to, to reach the end of the race, but that's my why and that's why I do it that way.

What's great about that for people listening on the podcast is they know they can count on that from you. That's just the way you're going to do it. What you tell them is going to get them results because you've seen it, you've experienced and then you've done it.

Yeah.

It's not like you're talking about it. You do it, you use it.

Yeah.

And then he's okay, guys, this is what's gonna work. Let me show you.

This is what I've tried. This is the process, this is the system, this is the way to do it. And when it works out for people, then automatically in their mind it's like, well, this is the right way to do it.

So on another unrelated story, I'd love for you to share the story you told me about GoDaddy. That was such a great story and I think it'll get people to know you even a little bit better because that was hilarious.

Yeah. This is when I was in the corporate world once again. You know, when you're, when you're building in this Internet business and it's just crushing it, you know, you'll have the tendency that sometimes, whether you're at break or at lunch and you're at work, that you're going to just get on the Internet and you're going to just kind of work on your business. Right. You know, obviously if I had a government job, I'd have way more time to work on it. But.

Corporate world. But there was times that I work on my business while I was at work. And then one time my boss said, you know, I need to speak to you. And I'm thinking in my mind, oh my. Busted. Finally busted. They're going to come and say that, you know, what are you working on? And he surprised me because he sat me down. He goes, yeah, you know, we have some concerns about your Internet usage. And I was like, okay, here it comes. I've taken up like half of the company's bandwidth when it comes to this. And he goes, well, you know, according to the head office, and now we were based in Toronto and they were in head offices in Calgary. He goes, that, you know, you've been visiting a lot of different adult sites while during work hours at work. And I was like, what are you talking about? Right? Because if you know me, I'm like the last guy. I tend to be more on the conservative, much more on the conservative side than your average guy, right? And I go, oh really? And I'm thinking, this is really interesting. This is really interesting. I go, what website am I visiting? And he goes, well, there's this one website that was flagged that you seem to be going to every single day.

And it's been played as an adult website. And then I said, well, what's the name of the website? And he looks at me and he says it even like weird, like he's like godaddy dot com.

And I sat there and I looked at him, I said, okay, well I can see that. I can see how somebody convinced her that. And I said, listen, dude, it's not an adult website, it's a domain registrar.

This is way back in early 2000s. They don't know what a domain registrar is unless you know you're setting up a domain for your business, right? And I said, go to it. And he got all freaked out and he's like, I can't go to that. I go, just go to it. Right? He goes to it and he's like, oh yeah, this is obviously not an adult related website. And you know, he apologized. And then I got a nice letter from head office apologizing and they actually turfed that entire program because of that incident that they had a filter. They had hired a company to implement a filter and obviously false positive happened and it was an embarrassing situation for everybody. I mean, I was so upset that, you know, I walked out and you know, my boss's office and I said, I have an announcement, everybody. You know, I'm not a pervert. This is a false positive.

And you know, so that's just the nature of it, right?

Yeah, you never know when those things are going to pop up like that.

I know, right?

What's it about the Internet usage? So I could go back and keep working on my business, right?

Well that's awesome. So if somebody's listening to this, and they want to get a hold of you.

Who would be your ideal person that you would like to work with?

I think anybody who wants to master the art of buying traffic, Whether it's buying traffic from places like Google or. Or Facebook or Bing, and whether that's to build their fan base, their email list, or just send straight traffic to their sales pages or whatever it may be, they can just go to digitalsumo.com that's our brand. And basically what we do is we go out there and we teach people how to buy traffic, and that's based on our experience of buying traffic, not only internally.

As you know, I'm partnered with somebody in a house supplement company where we spent 25 to 30 million dollars on advertising. So we buy it not only internally, but we also in some cases buy it for external companies in forms of lead generation and things like that. So if they want to learn more, Gary, they can just go to digitalsumo.com and that gives them all the information they need.

Awesome. Well, goer, thank you so much for being here today. Your right way has come through loud and clear. Clear. I mean, you are the guy that's got it already figured out, and we'll share that with people that are looking to get results.

So awesome. I appreciate it, Gary. This was fun. Yep.

We'll. We'll do it again sometime.

All right, take care.