How NASA Fixed Its Culture Problem: 3 Leadership Lessons from Dr. Laura Gallaher

Welcome to beyond you'd why podcast, where we go beyond just talking about your why and actually help you discover and then live your why. You see, we believe that knowing your why, that driving force behind every decision you make and every action you take, is the essential first step to really knowing yourself. It allows you to move forward faster and have a bigger impact. If you're already a fan of the show, then you know that every week we talk about one of the nine whys and then we introduce you to somebody with that why so you can see how their why has played out in their life. This show will be more powerful for you if you've already discovered your why. If you still need to do that, head over to whyinstitute.com and discover your why today. It'll only take you about five minutes. Now let's meet today's guest.

This week we're going to be talking about the why of contribute to contribute to a greater cause, add value, have an impact on the lives of others. So if this is your why, then you want to help. You want to contribute in a meaningful way. Use your time, your money, your energy, your connections to push other people forward. You're the glue that holds organizations together. And so today we've got a great guest for you. Her name is Dr. Laura and she is a professional speaker and organizational psychologist who inspires driven self starters to transform their relationship with themselves to accomplish more than ever while making everything easier. While sharing revelations on radical self acceptance, she uniquely leverages humor to resonate with audiences. She is an approachable, funny, warm, alluring, optimistic, curious and delightful speaker and guest. Even as a national best selling author, Dr. Laura doesn't fit the typical academic personality or PhD of her peers. Welcome Dr. Laura Gallaher.

Thank you for having me, Gary. I'm happy to be here.

Well, this is going to be a lot of fun. Let's jump right in. Well, you and I are met through a group called the Genius Network and we've been trying to get this scheduled for what, six months or so?

Yeah, it's been a little bit.

So let's, let's jump back into your life. Let's let our listeners get to know you. Take us back to high school. What were you like in high school?

Okay, so in high school on the one hand I was a band geek, so I was doing the marching band and I also played, you know, oboe, English, horn, trombone. But I was also very much a leader. Like whatever it is that I was doing, I just always found myself in a leadership position. So in marching band, I was drum major. So I don't know if, you know, marching band, how that works, but I was the one, you know, up on the podium directing the whole band while they're marching on the field. And I did that for, like, three years. So I don't know. I thought high school was pretty fun. I enjoyed the community aspect of it, and I was absolutely a perfectionist, super striving, high achiever type.

Okay, and so then you graduate from. And where was this?

This is Phoenix, Arizona.

Oh, nice. Okay.

Yeah.

So in Phoenix, you're kind of the leader of the pack. Probably had a lot of different friends, right? Did you move in and out of different groups or did you have your one kind of group, or what was that like for you?

I think I pretty much had my group of friends. Like, band took up so much of our time that all of the friend group was sort of in band, and, you know, we all kind of, like, dated each other and for the most part, stayed friends. Yeah, for all of high school.

Okay, good. All right, now you graduate from high school and then what?

I went to Arizona State, became a Sun Devil and studied psychology there. Absolutely loved it. I fell in love with it immediately.

And why psychology?

Oh, gosh. Okay. So in high school, I felt like I was one of those people where my friends would come to me for advice. I loved sitting in the seat of feeling knowledgeable. You know, as a teenager. I knew so much back then, and just giving them advice about how they could solve their problems or make their life better. And. And I assumed that moving into psychology, it would be that I assumed that I would become a therapist or something and work one on one with people. I ended up going a slightly different route, but the fascination with human behavior and my ability to read a textbook and then understand myself more was just addicting to me.

Okay, so tell us, what do you mean? What happened to you in college? What did you do after college? Take us on your story.

Okay, so social psychology was my favorite. Like, bring human beings together in groups and how do we behave differently? How do we influence each other? How do we perceive each other? Stereotypes, all this stuff. But I didn't know how to use a social psychology degree. And then somebody said, you know, there's this whole field of psychology. You can study anything you want as long as you say at work at the end of it. And it's called organizational psychology. I was like, okay. So I chose an organizational psychology program here in Central Florida, in Orlando. So I moved across the country and I started studying Industrial. Industrial. Organizational psychology here.

And so. And how long is that? Was that a couple years or.

Gosh. Okay, so from graduating high school to finishing the PhD was 10 years in total. Oh, wow. So about four years of undergrad and then like five and a half ish for the graduate work. So, yeah, it was a good chunk of time.

Yeah. So what does that mean, studied organizational psychology? Like, what kinds of things did you do?

So psychology is all about understanding, explaining, and predicting behavior. Organizational psychology is about doing all of that in the context of work. So there's almost two sides to the industrial organizational psychology degree. Industrial is a little bit more focused on selection. You know, how can we predict if somebody will be a good hire for a specific role? How can we predict job performance? So a lot of it is in that whole space, you know, looking at things like structured interviewing or selection assessments. You know, how can we understand individual difference variables and use that in a meaningful way to put people in roles where they can really succeed? And I did actually study selection and humor for my dissertation, but my heart was really on more the organizational side, which says, what makes for truly effective leadership? How do you. What is the variable that makes the biggest difference in helping teams actually work together? Well, what truly predicts organizational performance when it comes to the group interaction? And so those are the things that I was learning about. And I was only two years into my PhD when I was actually hired by NASA because they had recently gone through the Columbia accident in 2003. Do you remember when that happened, Gary?

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

Yeah. And so there was a piece of foam that hit the orbiter during the launch, and it didn't create a problem during the mission, but it damaged the heat shield so badly that when Columbia got the green light to come back to Earth, unfortunately, NASA lost all the astronauts. But the investigation said NASA's culture was to blame, and it was just rated the number one place to work in the federal government. So it really raised important questions then about what is culture. And so my now business partner, Dr. Philip Mead, was leading the culture change initiative at Kennedy Space center, and he learned about organizational psychology. He learned there's this whole field that exists to understand this exact thing. So he hired me and a team of organizational psychologists to come in and work with him on NASA's culture.

Well, let's go back for a second because you said something that I don't want to let go. And then let's get to what happened at NASA. But you said you were asking questions about what actually makes leadership and what is it that brings people together to perform at a higher level. Could you touch on that just a little bit? Because that's super interesting for me and I'm sure it will be for our audience for sure.

Yeah. You know, one of the variables that came up all the time in the research that we would study for leaders was about emotional regulation. Like, this would come up quite a bit. A leader's ability to regulate their emotion was a huge predictor in terms of their leadership effectiveness. And I remember from an academic perspective kind of thinking, okay, I mean that's great, but like, how do you learn to do that? And so, you know, a lot of my own personal experience in education was outside the academic space and really more into like humanistic space to say, how does one develop that sense of emotional intelligence? How does one develop enough self awareness to be able to actually regulate emotions? And that doesn't mean mask emotions, it doesn't mean suppress them, that's not effective. But let yourself know them, feel them, and also not be taken over by them. So that was one of my favorite findings that I studied about leadership. And from a team perspective. One of the variables I learned about that was so relevant for NASA was psychological safety. Have you heard this term before?

I have, yes.

Yeah, yeah. It's like, it's so critical. And Dr. Amy Edmondson coined this term back in 1999 and it was popular for a while and then it kind of faded. And then Google did project Aristotle in 2016 and the new York Times did a whole piece on it. Google was studying their internal teams to figure out like, who actually what teams are performing the best and how do we predict it. What are the variables that we can, you know, use stats and calculate. And it wasn't some of the more tangible things that you could look at like years of experience or education or diversity or things like that. Those all had some impact. But there was this other, like, je ne sais quoi for team performance. And then they found out this is already a thing that exists and it's psychological safety. So he said psychological safety was the biggest predictor of team performance for internal teams at Google. And a bunch of my clients read that New York Times piece and they were like, hey, this is the work that we're doing with you. I guess you were right. So, yeah, that's some of the things that I was learning and applying.

You know, just for our listeners, let's, let's go back and define emotional regulation and also define psychological safety. I've heard of it. Just because of a. I Can't remember the book that we read on that. But. But anyways. Yeah, just for the. For listeners. Go ahead and define those for. For us.

Well, so emotional regulation is about when an emotion comes over me, how do I respond to that? And so I'm trying to not define it by using the actual words of, like, regulating the emotion. Right. But we have so much choice as human beings when it comes to our feelings and our emotions. And so emotion regulation refers to a set of choices that a human being can make that enables them to not feel like they're at the mercy of their emotion, but rather they're able to allow it to move through them. So it's sort of like being pummeled by a wave versus surfing a wave. Emotion regulation is more about surfing the wave.

I got it. Yeah, that's a good analogy. And then psychological safety would be.

Psychological safety is. You know, one way I heard Dr. Edmondson explain it that I really liked was how expensive does it feel to just be you? Meaning do you perceive that there will be a cost to you, that you will be punished in some way if you are authentic, genuine, vulnerable? And a lot of what she's talking about with vulnerability, it could be the more intense things that people can share that are vulnerable. But it's also very necessary things like, I made a mistake, that's vulnerable. That takes psychological safety to admit to say, I disagree with you, boss. That is vulnerable takes courage, requires psychological safety. They don't understand what's going on. Right. Take psychological safety. So she was studying hospital teams, and she found that the teams that made the most errors were also the ones that were actually most effective. And that was a very confusing finding until what she realized is other teams were all hiding their mistakes. And so it's the willingness to be able to engage in a very honest way with one another without feeling like people will judge you so harshly that you can't recover from it.

Yeah, that's great. Okay, so now you are going into Nassau. They just had the major incident that the world saw, and they. And they heard that you thought. Most people thought it was the best place to work, but found out that culture was the problem. What did you uncover?

Well, there's a little bit more than we can probably get into in the time that we have today. But there were multiple factors of interest. One is that organizational design was putting people in nearly impossible situations. You have a mission manager who is responsible for budget and schedule as well as safety and technical. One person cannot, literally cannot process the amount of information that is required to just one seat and meaningfully make good decisions. And so there were some big org design changes that were made as a result of the accident. Org design can have a huge impact on an organization's culture and how empowered people feel to speak up at a team level. There were problems with communication. So I mentioned that foam hit the orbiter. There were three different teams across the agency that actually saw the foam hit. And unfortunately a higher governing body had said we're not worried about foam strikes because they've been happening for years and it had never posed a safety threat. So these teams were concerned about it. But because this higher governing board said this is not an in flight issue, they weren't going through proper channels. They weren't using the actual systems that were in place to raise concerns, fears, anomalies, et cetera. They were going through more informal channels and really kind of asking. They themselves felt like they were putting themselves on the line to even ask, to even push against this higher governing body. Like, hey, I know they said this isn't an issue, but I think it is. So they were already stretching themselves from like a courage vulnerability, psychological safety perspective, but unfortunately not following true process, the request for more data. They wanted imagery to see if the orbiter was damaged. That got shut down every time because it just wasn't following. It wasn't following all the proper processes. And so, and I could go more into like why it was so difficult. People needed data at NASA to be taken seriously and to be an engineer and say, I don't really have data on this, but my gut says it could be really bad. Oh, and by the way, I know that if we find a problem, we don't necessarily have a solution for it, but we should totally do it anyway. Like it just creates an almost impossible situation for these engineers to truly speak up past a certain point. And then at the deepest level, the intrapersonal, unfortunately there was self deception, right? These, these folks allowed themselves to be convinced that it was going to be okay. They were really concerned, but in the feeling of I can't do anything to change this, convince themselves it'll probably be okay. And most of them thought that it would be okay and they were just devastated to find out they were wrong. So there's very deep self awareness type work. But there were also some very like pragmatic things to change about NASA's culture. The way that human beings would talk about the shuttle program. And there was like a leader behavior checklist to go through to make sure the leader was actively working to raise dissenting opinions and create that psychological safety. So it was complex kind of to our conversation we had right before we were recording. Right. Complex problem to solve.

That is a very complex problem. And, and so as a result of that, what did you. Did they ask for like recommendations or did they change things or, or what happened as a result of that?

Oh yeah, lots of things changed. So again, the design of the organization changed. And so they were people that held equal seats at the same table in order to make better decisions. So better checks and balances were in place. And actually the group that I was in was called Organization Development. I was there for almost eight years. And that group, Organization Development, still exists within NASA Kennedy Space center today. So part of what I think was different in the Columbia accident compared to say Challenger as an example. People always think about Challenger from the 80s is that there was a recognition this is not one and done. You don't just change culture one time and then say, we've checked, we got it. So we were there as this ongoing presence. And so every time there was a new leader that was showing up, we were working with that leader to teach them the importance of these skills, to give them the self awareness, to teach them how to open the flow of communication. And a lot of those processes and things that we did are still in place. So it was a lot of leadership development and a lot of like deeper self awareness work to cultivate that kind of emotional regulation and psychological safety.

And how did that go over with the engineers? I mean this is not their. That's not what they think about, focus on, talk about that is like opposite. We're going to do what I know.

So. You know, it's funny, my business partner himself is an engineer, right. So the person that was leading the culture change initiative had an electrical engineering degree and he had been working as an engineer, an engineer for the space station prior to him moving into this special role to focus on culture change. And so I think that that was really useful. He presented a face to a very technical workforce to explain, hey, y' all solve complex problems all the time. Yeah, yeah. A rocket is a complex system. Well, an organization is a complex adaptive system. So it's kind of even a step beyond this rocket science that we all think is so hard because not only is it a complex system, but the adaptive part, that means that human beings can push back on a system. You can't just design a process and think that, boom, I've changed the organization. You have to be able to understand the human beings. Human beings themselves are complex Adaptive beings. And so I think that he did a good job of helping them see that this is solving complex problems, just like it is for you all. Unfortunately, I think I jived pretty well with the engineers. I worked primarily with engineering and technology when I was there. And I was a very logical, very data driven person. I mean, I was a scientist, right? Like, having studied, you know, getting a PhD was all about the science and the research. And so I think I was able to relate to them and teach them. Here is the logical, data driven side of all this emotional stuff, right? Yeah, they were receptive.

I could see that. You know what? I was a dentist for many years, and if somebody outside of dentistry came to try to tell us something, it's like, well, you don't understand, you're not a dentist, you don't live my world. But if a dentist came, same sort of thing, we would listen a little differently. But okay, so you were there for eight years, made a lot of changes within Nassau, and then you left, Is that right? Or what happened after that?

So I started my business, which is now called Gallaher Edge. I started that about a year before I left NASA. So I gained enough traction with it that I wanted to just move out. NASA was amazing. Like, I loved working for NASA. I thought it was such a powerful place to be. That the case for me being there, having been truly like life and death, just gave even more significance to what I was doing. And I knew almost nothing about NASA before I was there. Like, I was never actually a space geek. So I wanted to just do the work that I wanted to do and I wanted to bring it to all different companies, industries, all of that. So I started this company about 12 years ago. I had a brief stint at Disney briefly, but I still had my company going. And I couldn't balance both. I couldn't do both and enjoy my life. So I left Disney after only about a year and just been doing this business since then.

Wow. And what was the thinking in starting your own business? So you're at Nassau, things are going great, you're making all these changes, people are understanding it, getting it moving forward, and then I think I'm going to go start my own thing. How did that happen?

It's so silly, actually. Like, the specific way that that happened for me. I mean, I'd kind of contemplated it. I'd become a certified coach. I was doing a lot of internal executive coaching at Kennedy Space center. And I knew that this was a very transferable skill set and that there were all kinds of Other leaders that I could coach. So I'd always thought like, maybe I'll do this. But the specific moment is actually that I had a chance to present my dissertation at our annual conference. And I say our, and I'm talking about industrial organizational psychologists. Our annual conference. I got accepted as a symposium. It was kind of a big deal to me at the time. And NASA had these budget cuts and they said, you can't go, which means you can't present. Like we're not going to pay for you to go, which means you can't present. And I was like, you're not telling me I can't do this. And so I literally started a company, I registered it in Florida. I called up the organization, I said, can you change my affiliation away from NASA and make it my brand new business? And then I went to present my results under my own business. And then after that I was like, well, I guess I have a business now. Maybe I can find some clients. So it was such a very strange, funny kind of story how that happened.

Wow. Well, that worked out perfect for you.

It did. I'm happy with how it went down ultimately.

Okay, so now you have Gal Her Edge. What is the focus of Gallaher Edge?

So we apply the science of human behavior to drive organizational performance. Like above all else, what we work to do is teach leaders enough about psychology, about the science of how human beings actually function so they can break through some of the things that have been holding them back. You know, psychological safety ends up being a huge part of it. Most organizations don't have the same life and death consequences that NASA was dealing with. But not having psychological safety in your business, you are leaving money on the table constantly and it's not as fun of an environment to work in. So that's primarily what we do. We do a lot with executive teams to drive their self awareness, increase their trust and cohesion, get them in lockstep alignment. So when they are making decisions about strategy or org design or products and services, it can cascade down the organization with a high degree of cohesion.

You know, as you talking about, and I have your book sitting right here because we'll get to your book here in a minute. Define for all of us what is culture? Because I know culture is a big part of what you talk about. What is culture?

All right, very geeky definition incoming. Are you ready? Okay. Culture is an emergent property of organizations that is created by the interaction of the common behaviors and beliefs of the employees. So I can break this down for you because it's very geeky. You can maybe tell it was created more by my engineer business partner, not so much by me, but emergence. Our favorite example of emergence is taste of sugar. So you know what sugar tastes like, right? Yep. That's an emergent property. So we can look at the structural formula of sucrose and you can see that you've got carbon, hydrogen and oxygen and they interact in specific ways to create the taste of sugar. Because I couldn't ask you to taste carbon, taste oxygen, taste hydrogen, add it up in your head and then tell me what sugar's gonna taste like. In fact, you take those same elements and you combine them differently and you get something that tastes very different, like vinegar. And so culture is an emergent property is part of why it's so challenging, part of what makes it this complex adaptive system is culture is not something that can be worked on directly. It's all of these invisible forces. And it's not something you can just add together. You have to understand, well, how does this impact this? And then what is the ultimate outcome on people's beliefs and behavior? And that's the second part of the definition. So beliefs and behavior of the people. Think about that. The source of culture then actually lies between the ears of the employees. Beliefs and behavior resides within us. That's the other reason that culture is so difficult. Because people come into an organization with their own beliefs and obviously they come in with their own behaviors. We know we see all kinds of different behaviors from people in the workplace. Nobody acts exactly the same as other people. And so that's part of why we do so much work that focuses on self awareness, because we want leaders to understand. You can't directly control what your people believe, but you can work with them to help them surface it. And then you can create experiences to reinforce the beliefs that you want them to hold. For example, I would want anybody on my team to hold the belief that Laura wants to be challenged with her opinions, because I do. If they think she doesn't, that's my boss. I can't disagree with her. God, now I've got just a bunch of yes people and they're not going to challenge my thinking. And then I'm not getting the value out of them. They're not feeling like they're contributing and then like the culture's. So that's just an example of the beliefs and the behaviors. So that's our really geeky definition of culture.

How about a 6th grade English version for people like me? Oh, gosh, without the PhD, I only.

Have a DDS.

I would say then culture is really about how things are done around here.

Yeah. Okay, good. How we do it.

Yeah. And is it. Is it consistent? Because sometimes it's not. And then you've got a fragmented culture. So if people are like, well, I don't quite know how we do things here, though, because she does it this way and he does it that way. Like, how do we want to do things here? Often leaders haven't even had those conversations. I haven't thought it through yet.

And that goes back to psychological safety.

Yeah. Or the. Even just the importance of the recognition, the system that we can actually create. Every company has a culture. Sometimes people are like, oh, we don't have culture here. And I'm like, not sure what you're referring to specifically, but every company has a culture. Every family has a culture. Sports teams have, like, culture exists. The question is, are you designing it or are you just letting it be what it is?

Can you design it?

Absolutely. This is what my engineering business partner taught me. Right. He's like, you can design anything. He's like, just work backwards from your requirements. What are we designing for? And so using the science of human behavior and then using his engineering brain and his ability to design backwards from the results that you want to get can absolutely design your culture. It is still a complex problem to solve, but it is absolutely something you can design and you can manage it and enhance it.

I love it. And so right here I have your book.

That's it.

The Missing Links. Tell us about the title. Tell us about the book.

So Missing Links is the name of our culture model. So you can see we've got the DNA strand up there. And so what we focused on are the missing links of evolving your culture. And what we're talking about with those links is how are the human beings interacting with one another? So in the same way that I was giving the example of the interactions between hydrogen, oxygen, and carbon, you want to think about, how are your human beings linking themselves together in the organization? As an example, are they linked together through compassion, through trust, through openness? If they are, if those missing links are actually present in your organization, the individual has this fundamental driver for connection met. And that fundamental driver, this is like, every human being is born with a desire to connect. It's part of how we've evolved as a species. But the organization also gets this emergent property of community, which some people talk about it as family. We prefer the language of community, which is a sense of, like, we're in this together. Right. We're all on the same team. Every leader I know wants to have that feel of community in their organization. So the missing links is what we really focus on. How do we get really intentional to give people the skills and the knowledge to link together in the most effective ways.

And I love that. Yeah, that just makes a ton of sense.

Awesome.

And, and so for companies and CEOs that are listening, like what does that look like? I'm the, I have the, you know, I'm a CEO of a hundred million dollar company.

What does that look like? To focus on our culture? Like what do we do?

Yeah. So we have to start with self at the core. Always, always, always. It was one of our biggest findings. Looking at NASA, you've got the smartest people in the world. You've got rocket scientists, you have Nobel prize winners. It's not enough to be smart. Self deception is going to be the worst enemy of any organization. And so before we can jump into culture, we have to actually look at the ingredients that we're working with inside an organization. That's the human beings. And so we start out by bringing the executive team together. And we usually start with a three day workshop. Could be longer, but three days is really the minimum that we need for those individuals to go through this. We call it either the foundational workshop or growing leaders from the inside out. So it's deep work that we do with them. Very experiential. There's even somatic elements so that every leader better understands themself. Key to emotional regulation that we talked about before so they can change how they communicate and get really unstuck from the patterns of ineffectiveness. Most of our clients are actually pretty awesome. Like they're pretty good teams but they're still leaving money on the table because they are missing out on like some of those really healthy conflict type issues that they really need to get engaged with to have a better product, have a better decision. And so it's a lot of self awareness work that we then help them apply to all of those business focused conversation. So it's like all those annoying people problems that kind of get in the way. Even with a good team, people's stuff comes up. We give leaders the skills to work through those so they can get back to work that much faster.

I mean there's no such thing as not having problems. Right. There's.

Right.

There's no perfect anything.

No.

So it's like turbulence, right. I'm going to get on this plane, there's not going to be any turbulence. Well, there's going to be turbulence.

There's going to be turbulence. Absolutely. And so the question is, what do you do when it comes up? And a lot of people will avoid it or push past it, try to pretend it's not there. And unfortunately that never makes anything better. Problems just don't, they don't just get better on their own. Not people problems. They usually fester and they grow and then they become lenses of distortion that we look at each other with. That's why you've got people who've had like beef for years and organizations just never talked it through.

Yeah. You know, this week I was in Texas and I, and I worked with a big company there and from the outside, man, everything looks so perfect. I don't think I'd spoken at an event where everything seems so good. But then when you have some side conversations, then you hear some other things and you're like, maybe it's not quite as good as what I thought.

Yeah, and that's pretty much always the case.

Yes.

And like, that's a great example too. All those side conversations that happen, all of the things people say after the meeting, we want them saying it in the meeting, say it in the meeting. It's a self protection thing. When people don't bring things up in the meeting and they just talk about it with their good friend, you know, or gosh, with Zoom World now, people are like slacking each other on the side about like, oh my God, can you believe what Gary just said? Instead of saying, gary, I'm having a hard time with what you're sharing right now. Can we slow down a second so that I can process this with you or whatever. So it's getting people over all of the fear, the crazy fear that holds so many of us hostage and keeps us from having the most important conversations to have at work.

Yeah, I could see that. You know, I'd love to dive in even deeper into this because this is fascinating stuff. But Dr. Laura, if people would like to find you, work with you, connect with you, what's the best way for them to get in touch with you?

Best way to get in touch with me is going to be on LinkedIn. So I love to post there, I love to share, you know, whatever thoughts are coming up for me based on the work that I've been doing with my clients is usually the kind of stuff that I'm sharing. Feel free to, you know, follow me if you want to get some of that content or if you want to actually engage, just connect. But let me know that you heard me here on Gary's podcast.

Awesome. And last thing before we go, what's the best piece of advice you've ever been given? Or the best piece of advice you've ever given?

All we have is now.

Love.

That really good lesson in presence right just now is all we have.

Now is all we have. Dr. Laura, thank you so much for being here today. Enjoyed our conversation. We're going to have to get you on again and go even deeper. So thank you for being here.

Thank you for having me.

I really hope you enjoyed today's episode and that through today's guest, you heard how important it is to know your why and how impactful it can be in your life and the lives of those around you. Be sure to head over to why institute.com and discover your why today. Remember, the more you know about yourself, the more you'll know about others. I'm Dr. Gary Sanchez and I'll see you on the next episode.