John Livesay: Creating Clarity In Your Marketing One Good Story At A Time

Welcome to beyond you'd why podcast where we go beyond just talking about your why and actually helping you discover and then live your why. So if you're a regular listener, you know that every week we talk about one of the nine whys and then we bring on somebody with that why so you can see how their why has played out in their life. And so today we're going to be talking about the why of clarify. So if this is your why, then you are a master in communication. You seek to be fully understood at all times. It is important for you to to know that people get what you are saying and you generally employ numerous methods to express a given point. You will use analogies and metaphors to share your views in interesting and unique manners that share your why, often suffered in a dysfunctional communication environment during their upbringing and now seek to make up for that with extraordinary clarity, both spoken and written. You feel successful when you know with confidence that your message has been fully understood and received and have tremendous command over language generally superior to most. Now I've got a great guest for you today. His name is John Livesay, AKA the Pitch Whisperer. He is a sales keynote speaker where he shows companies how to turn mundane case studies into compelling case stories so they will win more new business. From John's award winning career at Conde Nasty, he shares the lessons he learned that turn sales teams into revenue rock stars. His TEDx talk Be the Lifeguard of youf Own Life has over a million views. Clients love working with John because he of his ongoing support after his talk which includes implementing the storytelling skills from his bestselling book and online course Better Selling through Storytelling. His book is now required reading for the UTLA University of Texas and LA course on Entertainment and Media Studies. He is also the host of the successful Pitch podcast which has heard in over 60 countries. John, welcome to the podcast.

Hey Gary, thanks for having me.

I've been excited about this because you and I talked before and I was telling you that I've heard a lot of people say they're really good storytellers and how to use stories. You really do it so you do it at a different level. So I'm really excited about this. Now Tell everybody. Give us your life story. Where did you start? How did you get into where'd you go to school and how did you get into storytelling?

Well, I went to school at the University of Illinois in Champaign, Urbana and got a degree in advertising, which is the ultimate combination of show business and business. And I was always fascinated by how does Something motivate somebody. How does somebody remember a jingle from a commercial? All that really fascinated me. That was always interest to me. And so I found advertising fascinating. And then I took a trip around the world after school and then came back and decided, I think I want to get into the tech world.

So I got a job selling these multimillion dollar computers, competing against IBM, living in San Francisco and getting involved in Silicon Valley. And I realized that even if you had something less expensive and more reliable and faster, people still wouldn't buy it if IBM was putting fear, uncertainty and doubt in their head that if something broke and it was your equipment, you would get fired for bringing it in. So I had to really understand the psychology underneath people's decision making. And then I moved to LA and got a job at an ad agency where my job was to sell that agency services to create movies for commercials. On about the. So you'd watch a commercial to go rent a movie at Blockbuster back when that was happening. But Gary, that's really where I got to hone my storytelling skills. Because if a movie had come out theatrically and not done well, it was almost like a second chance for the studio to have the home video division tell the agency, let's create a different commercial and reposition this movie in 30 seconds to get people to want to go rent or buy it. So that was a lot of fun and still selling. And then I had a 15 year sales career at Conde Nast, as you mentioned, selling to brands like Lexus and Guess jeans and Banana Republic and Nike, all about how do you convince them or all the choices they have to run their ads in a particular magazine. And again, it was always about whoever told the best story got the sale. And that's why I'm able to speak to sales teams, because I've literally been in their shoes, had quotas, trying to beat your numbers, competing against other people and trying to differentiate yourself every time. So last six, seven years I've really been helping salespeople get off what I call the self esteem rollercoaster, because I was on it and it's miserable. You only feel good about yourself if your numbers are up and things are going great and bad if they're not. So when we can zoom out and realize that our identity is bigger than any one thing happening to us, whether it's losing a job or like I got laid off, or winning a sales award like I did a couple years later, we are really free from that roller coaster.

I love that. So take us back to the moment or what was that incident when you noticed that stories sell? What happened?

Well, for me personally, it was the first time I had to sell myself to get a job at Conde Nasty. And we're off to sell ourselves all the time, even if we're not in that position, to get hired, promoted, whatever. And when I was being interviewed and they put you through so many interviews there, and there was a lot of competition, and when it got to the third or fourth interview and I was talking to HR and it had been very clear that this was an expensive ad magazine to run in and you had to convince people to pay a premium. And I was saying to them, well, you want to have somebody who can do that and yet you only want to pay this. And if I can't convince you to pay me what my salary requirements are, even if it's above what your budget is, then I wouldn't be good at selling your magazine. And then they went, oh. And so I said to me, it reminds me of when you go looking for a house and you have your dream list. I want a view, I want the pool, I want it to be in a great neighborhood. And I only have this budget. And a lot of times you have to give up one of those three things to fit your budget. And I said, I'm the house with the pool, the view and the location. Location wise, I know the territory, the view. I can get not only obvious clients to advertise, but non obvious clients. And as far as hitting the ground running, that's what I offer. But if you don't have the budget to have that, then you might have to give something up and hire another candidate that doesn't bring all of that. So that's what allowed me to use storytelling to get myself hired the first time.

I love that. And so then from then forward, you just started using storytelling in selling their products or their advertising agency and just got better and better and better at it.

Right. One of the clients I was able to convince to advertise with me at the time when I was selling a high fashion magazine called W, was really understanding their problem. And Jaguar had said, we want people to think of our car as moving sculpture, but we have no idea how to make that happen. So I worked with the marketing team and came up with a story of how we would have 10 couples that have the income level and we can even slice it down to people who have a competitive car lease coming up within six months and get picked up in a new Jaguar and taken to our Golden Globes party. And then from There to a private dinner in a private dining room with the chef. And some people from the Museum of Modern Art would be speaking about art. And a Jaguar representative could be there. And in between courses, people could take another test driver on the block in another car. And they love that idea. And it works so well that I got 10 pages of advertising, which was $500,000, and they sold two cars that night. And because they really felt like they were part of the conversation, because the Museum of Art was talking about what sculpture and art is. And then someone from Jaguar would say, oh, that inspired our design of this.

Oh, I love that. That's awesome. And so what makes a good story? How do you help somebody? If I'm listening to this right now, and I think, you know, I've got a great product or I've got a great service, or I'm talented in these different areas, how do I create a story that helps me to sell? What makes up a great story?

Well, Gary, a good story has four parts. The first part is the exposition. You got to think of yourself like a journalist. The who, what, where, when. All of that is to paint the picture so that people see themselves in the story. Then the second part of the story is the problem. And the better you describe the problem, the more people think you have their solution. In any good story, the problem, the stakes are pretty high. That makes us lean in and wonder. We have to care about the hero of the story. And by the way, you're not the hero of the story. Your client is, and you're the Sherpa. And then you present your solution and the magic sauce to any great story is the resolution. And most people don't have that. What happens to this person after they bought your product? Imagine if the wizard of Oz ended, Gary, with Dorothy getting in the balloon and going back to Kansas. Bye. And there wasn't that wonderful resolution scene where she's in bed going, oh, there's no place like home. And you were there. And I learned so much about myself and what matters. That's why that movie and that story is so classic. And so when I can work with people on having all four of those elements in their case stories instead of case studies, then they are memorable and they're tugging at people's heartstrings. And then people want to open the purse strings.

So let's come up with an example. Let's just say I'm an entrepreneur or. What would be a good example? How could we really get our audience to understand this, to feel this? What would Be a good example to share with them.

Sure. Well, I can give you a real life example. Olympus Medical, the camera company, has a medical division using their camera technology to create equipment. And I was working with their team and I said, what are you saying now to doctors to get them to buy this equipment? And they said, oh, well, it makes the surgeries go 30% faster. Do you want one? And I said, oh, that's left brain numbers, speeds and feeds, as we used to call it in the tech biz, pushing out information. We need to craft a story, because people buy emotionally, not logically, not with numbers. And so the exposition, and here's the story that they're now telling. Imagine how happy Dr. Higgins was six months ago down at Long Beach Memorial using our equipment. And he could go out to the patient's family in the waiting room an hour earlier than expected. And if you've ever waited for somebody you love to come out of surgery, you know, every minute feels like an hour. He came out and put them out of their waiting misery, said, good news. The scope shows they don't have cancer. They're going to be fine. And then the doc turns to the rep and says, that's why I became a doctor for moments like this. Now that salesperson has a case story that they tell to another doctor at another hospital who sees themselves in that story and says, you know what? That's why I became a doctor, too. I want your equipment very different. And when I worked with Olympus on this, wow, that gives us chills. Not only are we not telling stories, it never occurred to us to put the patient's family as a character in the story. And then you'll see how I use the technique of pulling you in by saying, if you've ever waited for someone you love to come out of surgery, then you like, oh, yeah. And even if you haven't, you probably know somebody who had to do that. And then we're tapping into your whole sweet spot. The doctor's why he's in the resolution of that story. And without that resolution, the patient was fine. That's like, okay. And the doctor came out an hour earlier. Okay. But the resolution is really what pulls people in.

So when you're helping them to craft their story, do you break it down, like, piece by piece like you did before? Okay, let's develop this. Let's develop this. And then we put it all together.

Exactly. It's literally a step by step process. And I get to work with them and saying, oh, that resolution could be stronger. The problem we could Have a little more emotion in that and get the stakes a little higher. So it's a fine tuning process to get it clear, concise, and compelling. That's my checklist. We got to make sure it's doing all three before we put it out into the world.

Which goes right along with clarify.

Yes.

So thing you're using stories to make things clear so that people can make a decision to move in the direction that you're wanting them to go.

Right. Because the first time I heard that, the confused mind always says no. That was a huge light bulb for me. I was like, of course. That makes perfect sense to me. That for me, that's my why of clarification. So that's why the stakes are so high if I'm not clear and if I'm not teaching other people to be clear. And no one's ever going to tell you they're confused, Gary. They just won't buy their ego, won't let them. You're using acronyms they don't understand. Or, you know, even as a dentist with a patient, you just start describing some procedure and they're like, I don't understand that. But I think I'm going to pass. Thanks anyway. I don't need that because it's too confusing. But if you say, here's what happens if you don't get this root canal or this crown or this implant or whatever it is, then they go, oh, I don't want that. Like, for example, when I was working out with my trainer, he's like, okay, we're going to do deadlifts. I'm like, ah, do we have to? I mean, who cares what the back of my legs look like? He goes, have you ever been in the shower and seen a really old guy with a saggy butt? I'm like, yeah. He goes, that's because they don't have strong hamstrings to hold it up. Okay, how many do you want me to do? Right. I'm totally in now.

You don't want to be that guy.

I don't want to be that guy. So that's what I mean about painting the picture of what the stakes are if you don't do something.

So what advice do you give to people? I'm thinking myself here, I would love to tell more stories, but in the heat of the moment, I feel like I just answer the question, right?

Yes. So that is a behavior we've learned. And so I have two parts to this answer. The first part is confident people are comfortable with silence.

So just because Somebody's asked you a question doesn't mean you have to jump into your normal response of, okay, let me answer that question for you. You can take a breath, you can take a few seconds and remember, oh, I want to tell a story to answer their question. And even if you have to use that transition statement, they've asked you a question. Let me tell you a story that's going to answer your question. Oh, okay, now it makes sense why you're telling me a story. You've given me a reason to listen, and then you go into it, and then my real tip on becoming a better listener is after you've answered the question, ask somebody. Did that answer your question? You'd be surprised how people say, yes, it did or it did. But now I have another question. Because you want to have the dialogue going, so the willingness to. I've answered that. Now I'm done. Back to my presentation. No, no. And if I wasn't clear, that's my responsibility. I didn't answer your question. You don't want to be seen as a politician that avoids questions, telling a story. If you're like, is that the answer you were looking for? Because, man, when you make people feel seen and heard, they feel appreciated and they're on your side. That's the trust building. That's the core of getting a relationship going in any situation.

So why are stories so effective?

Hmm. Well, it's literally in our DNA. If you think back to the days when we all lived in caves, there were stories on the walls. People would sit around campfires and tell stories. It's how legacies get passed down. When you tell someone a story, their brain goes, oh, this might be entertaining, or at least interesting, hopefully. And not data that I have to analyze. So we're shifting out of. Let me see if this is something I agree with, disagree with, to, oh, I'm in the story and being. I'm taken on a journey. And it just taps into a different way of thinking. And the biggest problem it solves is being forgettable. Because if you just push out facts and figures and you hang up or leave the room or the zoom or whatever, and like, oh, I don't remember what that guy Gary said about the WHY Institute. But if you tell a story of how somebody discovered their why and started teaching their team how to discover their why and how, now it's the foundation to their whole success, then they are remembering that story and repeating it to other people. Because, Gary, everybody wants to be brought up in that second meeting. You and your team you go present, you pitch something to a potential client, and they're looking at maybe a competitor or two. And then they have the second meeting where they say, okay, we heard three pitches. Which one does anybody like or anybody remember? If nobody remembers anything, it's just a bunch of numbers. I guess we should just go with the cheapest solution. But if someone's told a story of a coach that suddenly figured out their own why and helped their clients figure out their why much faster and much more accurately, and how that coaching business took off, because the results the clients were getting, because the foundation of the why was there. Well, that's a story that people are saying, you got to get the why first before you start anything else, like building a house without a foundation.

I wonder if that's why podcasts have become so popular now. We get to talk to people and hear their stories instead of just what they did or what, you know, like you said, the facts, figures, and features we get to talk about. Okay, what's the story behind that? Instead of you just being somebody who learned how to tell stories, you had a reason to have to learn how to tell stories, which opened all that whole world up for you.

Yes, I think people crave stories. In fact, some of the most popular podcasts are those serialized kind of things that used to be old school television shows and still exist on Netflix, where we binge watch. Why do we binge watch? Because we need, you know, if they have a cliffhanger at the end or an open loop in a story, I'll just watch the first five minutes to find out if that person died or not. Right. So that's what keeps us engaged emotionally. And so a good podcast will certainly do that because you're being informed and entertained and hopefully inspired. And if you're hitting all three of those buttons in your stories and in your podcast, that keeps people coming back. That's the sticky factor that advertising is all about.

So tell us about be the lifeguard of your own life. That was your TEDx talk. What was that all about?

Well, I literally was a lifeguard. And so I think I really want to emphasize that fact that when you tell a story, make sure it's authentic.

Okay.

And so I have some credibility talking about being a lifeguard. And one of the lessons I learned all those many years ago was don't panic and stay calm when someone is drowning. You got to really rely on your training. Have a little special effect about that. Even I had to jump in and save a little girl who was 12 years old. She Dived off the high dive for the first time, and she was underwater two seconds too long. And so I had to pull her out and stay calm myself. And that lesson of not panicking and staying calm served me my whole career, including when I got laid off from Conde nast back in 2008. And everyone else was storming out and angry. And I said to the publisher, don't you want a status report to know where these ads should be running down the road and which page numbers? Well, that would be great, but everyone else is so angry, they're just leaving. And I said, I'm not going to do that to the clients. My training from not panicking and staying calm during a stressful situation like that, where I had to be out in the same day, is what allowed me to get rehired back two years later and win salesperson of the year. And I was the only one that left on a good note. And that came from. And so now we're all being disrupted, certainly with the pandemic, and it's not the last time we're going to be disrupted in our lives. And this ability to not panic and stay calm as opposed to, oh, it's a hurricane. I don't really have to evacuate. Someone's going to send a helicopter if things get bad. No, we all have to be our own lifeguards.

No, I love that. And so then you took all that you've learned and you put it into your book. Right. And tell us about the book. Better selling through storytelling.

Yes. So people have asked me to not only have it as a book, but also as an online course. So after I'm speaking to teams or if people want to really work with me, the course and the book all work together on teaching you how to become a black belt in storytelling. So we cover the mindset of how important it is to what story you're telling yourself, which is what your work is all about, and then how to tell a story that gets you out of the friend zone at work. You know, almost everyone I've ever worked with, we all know what the friend zone is in the dating world, except maybe you, because you're irresistible, but you got the perfect smile and everything. But most of us mortals have been stuck at the friend zone in our dating life, and. But in work, you know, as a salesperson, you go, oh, I'm interested. Send some information. And these crickets. So I show people how to get out of that friend zone at work, where people just say they're interested, but they're not. Intrigued enough. I go from getting people from I'm interested to I'm in. And storytelling is that bridge.

So give us an example of that. How would you. Yeah, take us through that particular scenario where somebody says, hey, I'm interested. Crickets versus yes, I'm in.

Well, the premise is, if you've said something interesting. For example, when I was calling on Speedo to get them to advertise with me at first, by the way, wearing.

A Speedo will get you out of the friend zone.

Yeah, well, not really. They had a line of sportswear coming out, and I said to them, would you advertise that in my fashion magazine? And they said, no, we're going in a fitness magazine. And so I used. Part of my training is, what if you start a sentence with what if it gets you in the right side of the imagination and storytelling? I start to paint a picture. I said, well, what if we did something unexpected with your sportswear line and treated it like it was high fashion? And we could have the models wearing your sportswear around a swimming pool at a hotel. And since Michael Phelps is on your payroll during the Olympics, you could invite him, and we get all kinds of press. And they said, oh. So they were no longer went from no to okay, we're interested. And then they said, well, how would that work? And now we're into intriguing. And then I paint the picture a little bit more. And then it became such an irresistible idea that they went from we're not running in a fashion magazine to, oh, my God, this is going to get us a lot more press and sales and publicity. And I got the sale. And more importantly for me personally, as a former lifeguard, I got to meet Michael Phelps. And that's a whole nother story of what lessons I learned that I can pass on now if you'd like.

Sure, let's. Well, before you do that, it sounded like you were taking us through a few steps there. What were those steps you said? The step of, like, what, Unawareness? Then to interest, then to.

Yeah. So first of all, you're invisible, Right. Let's say Speedo never really thought of a fashion magazine is even on their radar. Right. It's invisible. And so it's my job to even get on their radar. And then you move up to insignificant. And again, in the dating world, I don't know what's worse, invisible or insignificant. But I was really at the insignificant rung. They're like, yeah, what do you know? We're running in fitness. It's insignificant for us to be in fashion. No one thinks of this as fashion. And so I had to come up with an idea that was interesting enough for them to at least take a meeting and then paint the picture to get them up to intriguing and then really flush it. All the details out about which hotel, which pool, which press would be invited, the details of getting Michael Phelps there and working with them to make that happen, which was the linchpin to the idea all, is what took that up to the irresistible level.

Okay. And then irresistible then becomes decision. Got to make it happen.

I'm interested to. I'm in. Or in the dating world, we can't stop thinking about you. We text you all the time. And in this case, we can't. We're so excited for this event.

And so does every decision go through those stages, or does every sale go through those stages?

In my opinion, it does. You know, the old way of selling, and I had to do it for decades. We would do projections. How many people are at 90%, how many people are 50%, and how many people are 20%. And you do the math, and then you give a number of. I think I can make this many sales this month, this quarter, this year. Nobody thinks of themselves as a percentage, Gary. So I created this ladder to put our empathy hat on so that we see ourselves through the client's eyes. Where are we on the ladder? Are we invisible? Are we stuck at interesting? Or are we intriguing? Or do we have clients that love us, but we're not paying enough attention to them? And you know as well as I do that any relationship that's not nurtured goes away.

You know, you said something there that was really important, because I know what you're talking about, because we use HubSpot, and in HubSpot, there's different levels of where the sale is. Right. But I don't really understand them very well. How do you know I'm at 20%? How do you know I'm at 40% or 70%? Where did you come up with that? But what you're talking about gives me something to. It gives me a next phase to shoot for and what that actually means.

Yeah. And it's a roadmap for everyone I work with of how they look at their clients, and they have these dream clients that they're invisible and they're afraid to reach out to and like, all right, so let's collaborate, and then let's create some stories to get you up each rung of the ladder, because, again, most of us mortals, probably unlike you, if we're having a coffee date with somebody, we don't ask them to get married. And yet a lot of people are reaching out to people on LinkedIn going, hey, you want to buy? So you got to figure out where you are on the ladder to move up.

I like that.

Yeah.

Okay, so now tell us about Michael Phelps.

So day of the event, fashion show is going great. He couldn't have been nicer. You know, I'm a total, you know, fan. And walk up to him and I said, michael, everyone says you're so successful because your feet are like fins and your lung capacity is bigger than the average person. But I'm guessing there's something else that makes you an Olympic champion. He goes, yes, John. When I was younger, my coach said to me, michael, are you willing to work out on Sundays? Yes, coach. Great. We just got 52 more workouts in a year than the competition. Ah. So I said, wow, thanks, Michael. Now, when I give that story to audiences, I asked them, what are you willing to do that your competition isn't to get at Olympic level? And then they go, oh, and what are you willing to do that they maybe even haven't thought to do? And then that leads to another story. So that's how I interweave storytelling with takeaways.

Oh, I love that. That reminds me of on the podcast earlier, I had a coach named Alan Stein, and he was doing some work with Kobe Bryant, and he said that Kobe would come in at 4 in the morning and work out at 9 and then work out at 12 where everybody else was working out two times a day. He was working out three times a day. That gave him the same thing. He said, I'm gaining on my competition to the point where soon they'll never be able to catch me.

Correct. And I don't know if you noticed when I was telling that Michael Phelps story. And this is a tip for everyone who wants to be a better storyteller. Tell your story in present tense. I spoke it like it was live dialogue, like you were eavesdropping in on the conversation. So instead of saying, when I asked Michael why he's so successful, he told me his coach said, work out on Sundays. I acted it out for you with different voices. Looking down, looking up. Yes, Coach. Great. That's the difference of telling a good.

Story versus just reading something instead of talking about it. Bringing me into it.

Yes.

Okay. What other tips you got for us? Because I'm going to be doing. I'm speaking at an event actually on Monday, so now I gotta use all These things I don't think I'll do nearly as well. Of course, I won't do as good a job as you will, but I'll pick up a little bit.

Sure. Well, if you're giving a talk or you're giving a sales pitch, whatever it is, my big suggestion is to reverse engineer it. And for my left brain friends, and I don't know why that is out of the nine, but I'm sure there's a lot of them, the logic people, they love that. Oh, reverse engineer something. I'm in, right? So that's how I pull them in. I'm like, let's reverse engineer this. And you ask yourself these three questions. What do I want the audience to think? What do I want the audience to feel? And what do I want the audience to do? And when you have the answers to those three questions, you now have the end of your talk, the end of your pitch, and then you go, okay, now what's my opening? And then you structure the rest of your talk from there. Because remember, you want them to do all of those things, not just one. And you know, I've seen so many people make presentations go, well, that's all we got. Any questions? As opposed to, let's sum up the potential journey we could go on together to renovate this airport and make people feel proud to live in the city who are returning home and give people a wow factor who've never been here before and reframe their concept of what Pittsburgh really looks like. We are the perfect team to make you do this. A lot of us have lived here our whole life. This isn't just another job for us. This is a hometown game. That's the ending. I helped Gensler craft when they won a billion dollar airport renovation of the Pittsburgh airport against two other firms.

Wow. Tell us about that.

Well, they were told, listen, you're in the final three and you could all do the work or you wouldn't be in the final three. You have an hour to come in and tell us why. And part of the criteria was likability because we got to work with you for six years. And that's when they pulled me in. They said, oof. We usually just show our designs and hope that's enough to win the business. We don't even know where to start. And I said, well, let's start with a team slide. And this is part of what I teach in the course and working with people, your story of origin. So I said, what are you going to say? Well, my name is Bob I've been here 10 years. I'm like, no, no, no. Bob, what made you become an architect? Oh, I was 11 years old. I play with Legos now. I have a son that's 11. I still play with Legos with him, and I have that same passion. Great. Sue, where were you before here? The Israeli army. Okay. I bet you learned about focus and discipline. And since you're in charge of making sure this thing comes on time and under budget, you're the perfect background. So I pulled out little individual stories of each of them that made them memorable and likable. And the other two firms just did the traditional, hi, this is what I do.

And so when it came time for the presentation, do you think they thought more about the facts, figures, and features or the feelings?

The feelings. I was with them for two days, prepping for that one hour to win, because the stakes were so high. From beginning of what they're saying at the opening to what they're saying at the ending, what they're saying on the team side, to turning those before and after pictures of other airports into a story. All of that, the storytelling, became the whole framework for the whole hour.

You brought up something else just a minute ago that is definitely a struggle for me, and I'm guessing it's going to be a struggle for a lot of the people listening, and that's how to end a presentation. That's not easy, at least for me. It seems sometimes like it just fizzles out versus really hit them with that end. And what are some tips on finishing presentations?

Well, I also use this when I do virtual talks. I want all of you to go out into the world and think of yourselves as artists who tell stories. Because the world needs people like you who are passionate about what they're doing to tell those stories. Because you're not just selling equipment. You're selling a solution that helps people save lives. And the world needs people who care about patients and the families in the world from a completely different standpoint besides just the profit and loss, but who see them as people and see them as their potential family members. And when you bring that kind of passion to your stories, you're going to not only increase your sales, but feel happy and passionate about why you're doing what you're doing.

I love that. I love that. So you got to throw in the music at the end.

Motion. Yeah. That's a story tapping into all of our. It's not an informational push. It's a biological connection with all the senses, the sound we Feel something. Do we see something? Do we see ourselves as an artist telling stories? Or do we see ourselves as a rep pushing equipment?

So those of you that are listening can't see John, but he is definitely moving his hands and doing and moving in the chair seat. And, I mean, you're more animated, and I'm feeling it as you're speaking.

Oh, thanks. Good. Yeah. I mean, remember, what you're really selling is yourself and your energy. Metaphysically, quantum physics, whatever you want to look at it. I remember when my speaking agent said, oh, congrats. XYZ client hired you. They liked your energy on the interview. That's really what they're buying. Not the content, not my experience, not all the work I'm going to do, not the course not. It's the. They go, yeah, you know, we just felt better after talking to you on the interview, and we felt if you could make us feel that good, you'd probably make all 300 of our team feel that good. So I think the more we remember that it's energy that we're really connecting on, then we come from a completely different place. We're not phoning it in.

I love that. So, John, if people are listening and they're thinking, I need to get a hold of John, I want to have him come speak to our sales team. I want to hire him to work with me. How should they get ahold of you?

The easiest way is just to go to my website, johnlivesay.com. if you can't remember any of that, just Google the pitch Whisperer, and my content shows up. And if anybody wants a free ebook of my top storytelling tips, all you have to do is take out your phone and text the word pitch with a P, P, I, T, C, H to 66866. So you put 66866 on your phone like you're texting somebody. And then in the message part, you put pitch, and boom. You'll get some top storytelling tips that we covered here today. That'll be a great way for you to go, oh, okay, I'm starting to get this. And then, of course, you want the next steps of working with me in the course and. Or as a speaker. Just reach out.

Okay, last question. What's the best piece of advice you've ever given or the best piece of advice you've ever gotten?

The best piece of advice I've ever gotten was from Alison Levine when she was on my podcast, and she said, treat every opportunity to speak as if it's your big break, because it just might be. You never know who's in the audience.

No, I love it. Awesome. John, thank you so much for taking the time to be here today. I've enjoyed it. I know you and I are going to be in touch as we're on our journeys, and I'm looking forward to you helping me tell a better story.

My pleasure. Gary. Thanks for crafting the Y Institute and helping us all figure out which why resonates.

All right, thanks. Now it's time for our new segment, which is guess their why of famous people. And so this week I want to use the or have us think about the why of Walt Disney. What do you think Walt Disney's why is or was? I guess because I think that Walt Disney's why was to challenge the status quo and think differently. I think he saw stuff that the rest of us didn't see. He created things that we would be too scared to do, too worried about creating something of that magnitude. And he just did that. He didn't let anybody tell him no. And I know he was surrounded by his brother Roy, who was actually the how guy. So Roy was the how guy. Walt had the vision. Roy had the structure and process and system. So I would guess Walt was challenged. Roy was right way Roy built all the structure around making it happen of taking Walt's vision and turning it into reality. Without Roy, there would be no Walt Disney and then there would be no Disneyland. So what do you think? Tell me what you think Walt Disney's why is. And so if you love the beyond, you'd why podcast. Please don't forget to subscribe below and leave us a review or rating on whatever platform you use so that we can bring the why to the world and help 1 billion people discover, make decisions and live based on their why. Have a great week. I will see you next week.