The Journey of a Priest: Father Nathan Cromly’s Path with WHY

Welcome to beyond you'd why podcast, where we go beyond just talking about your why and actually help you discover and then live your why. You see, we believe that knowing your why, that driving force behind every decision you make and every action you take, is the essential first step to really knowing yourself. It allows you to move forward faster and have a bigger impact. If you're already a fan of the show, then you know that every week we talk about one of the nine whys, and then we introduce you to somebody with that why, so you can see how their why has played out in their life. This show will be more powerful for you if you've already discovered your why. If you still need to do that, head over to whyinstitute.com and discover your why today. It'll only take you about five minutes. Now, let's meet today's guest.

This week we're going to be talking about the why of challenge. To challenge the status quo and think differently. So if this is your why, then you don't believe in following the rules or drawing inside the lines. You want things to be fun and exciting and different. You rebel against the classic way of doing things. You typically have eccentric friends and eclectic tastes because, after all, why would you want to be normal? You love to be different, think different, and you aren't afraid to challenge virtually anyone or anything that is too conventional or typical for your tastes. Pushing the envelope comes naturally to you. Today I have a fascinating guest. His name is Father Nathan Cromley. He is the president and founder of the St John Institute, whose mission is to raise up saints who to lead by inspiring young people through Eagle Eye Ministry retreats, equipping Catholics through the St. John Leadership Institute programs, and engaging business and family leaders in integrating their faith with work, home, and the culture. His unique ability to form leaders through his ADEO methodology based on Thomas Aquinas inspires Catholics to live their faith in a way that is both spiritual and practical so they can dare great things for Christ. Father Nathan, welcome to the podcast.

Thank you very much. I'm glad to be here.

This is going to be interesting. I. I'm excited to. To spend some time together. So where are you right now?

In Denver, Colorado.

Denver, Colorado. Okay, so take us back in your life. Where did you grow up and what were you like in high school?

Well, you know, when you. When you look back over the way that the. The Lord makes every one of us, each one of us is unique. And when you think about the nine whys, if I look at challenge, that's Been the motives of my entire life. So me and high school is about the same as I am now.

In the sense that, you know, you find who you are and you go for it, and you. You give everything you've got behind who you know you are. And so the Lord came into my life when I was young person, and I. So in high school, I was living my faith for my. Out loud, for him in high school and serving, you know, his ministry and his kingdom in high school.

And what was it that took you in that direction?

What.

What was it that. Did you grow up in the church? Was your family always involved in the Catholic Church?

That's correct. We're all raised in the faith. Yep. And then When I was 13, I had an encounter with the Lord in prayer. And after the encounter with the Lord, you know, I just wanted to give everything that I had to him and his sermon. And so then, you know, you mature that, and it takes time, and, you know, there's plenty. You know, I was 26 when I finally made my vows, so 13 years of discerning and thinking it through before I was able to, you know, engage in that.

So people that knew you in high school, would they have realized that you think differently, that you don't do things the way everybody else does?

Yeah, I think that they would have felt that way.

What is it that would have made them feel that way?

Oh, you know.

You know, I think it's. There's always been inside of me a desire to go for the. The highest and the. The most intense. And not a lot of people feel that way about things, but I. I think it's important, you know, the idea of pushing the envelope, you know, from the inside and seeing, you know, how far we can go with things, that's just been very much a part of who I am.

How did you handle, let's say, being told what to do, Showing up, like, you know, hey, you've gotta follow all these rules. How did that work for you as you were growing up?

For me, anyway, it would be this is what's. What's good and necessary in order to get where I'm trying to go. Right. Okay. Like, a big part of what drives me as a person is that inner fire.

Right.

So that inner fire will allow you to go through all kinds of things that you might not expect to be able to go through, including. I mean, like, you talk about following rules. Try being a Catholic priest just types rules squared, you know, and then not just being any kind of priest of being a religious priest, you Know, that's even more. And so you. To, to, to follow rules. But that's like, allows you to. It's like the banks on a river. If a river doesn't have banks, it becomes a mud spot.

So the banks, canalize, channel allow you to give the best that you have in yourself. And I quickly realized that. So I think there's a paradox that I didn't really see, you know, spelled out real well on the Y sheet. But it could be in there because it doesn't mean that you, you necessarily have to be non conformist. It could very well be that you recognize that in your conformity to, to the social norms or to rules or to regulations or to whatever, there's a chance for you to give the very best of yourself is on the other side of it, of course. So. But I think everybody realized that and try to live it out.

I love the way you said that because we talk about that in terms of bumpers, right? And the width of the bumpers that each one of the nine Y's has really a width of bumpers that they function in the best. So if you take somebody with the Y of challenge like yourself and you make those bumpers really narrow where your playing field is very narrow and you can't.

Think freely and you can't be yourself in there, you know, how would that work for you versus let's give Father Nathan some wide bumpers and let him play a lot within this area. But we're still going in this in the right direction. Does that feel like what you're, what you're talking about?

I see what you mean. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, growing up, Catherine, of course there are definitely bumpers. And then I've been an all boys Catholic high school. So there was, you know, even more of that, but it was always with this. I think that, you know, there's a difference. For me anyway, the challenge that, that, that I embraced isn't necessarily a challenge just to, to express myself. It's a challenge to, to give myself. And I think that's a good distinction also for, for, for many people because it's kind of the next level. The one thing is accept who you are, but the next thing is to give it. And that's a whole different kind of challenge in a deeper one.

Wow. Okay, so you graduate from high school and then where do you go from high school in Toledo?

So I went to Desales University out in Pennsylvania. It's about an hour and a half north of Philadelphia in the Poconos.

Okay. And. And is That a seminary school or what type of a university or school is it? Okay, university.

University.

Okay.

And I studied religion there, studied theology, got a very good education. It's a good place to be. And then after that I went on and taught high school for a year in order to, you know, to basically serve and pay off my debts so that then I could enter seminary.

Yeah. The journey to being a priest begins with seminary. But of course, there's a preparation before all of that. And as you go through different schools, just by done in a personal way, from the Lord internally.

So at what point did you know, I mean, when you were 13, you knew you were going to go to seminary school and it just took 13 years to get there or you.

Okay, like about six months before I met.

Okay.

What. What was the, the field call? And the other thing is to follow it. Right.

Ah, okay. So in college, did you. You didn't know that you were going to be. Going to the. To become a priest?

No, I mean, I was thinking about it. Okay. You ponder these things a long time. I didn't really decide to go until about six months before.

Okay, so what's it like in seminary school? Most of us will not never experience that. What is seminary school like?

You live a very regimented life in order to teach you to do the higher things. It's a place of excellence where you're, you're constantly put towards the ultimate. It's the. For example, you pray four hours in a day. Not just once, not just saying your prayers, but four hours every day. But there's a, there's an incredible, you know, amount of a blessing there. But like what a lot of discipline? Well, that's where the structure and the rhythm of the day comes in. So the, like, it's a protected kind of environment in the sense that is, you really allow to focus yourself and your energies to give your. Your the best of yourself to the highest of things, right to the Lord. And that's a place of a lot of study where you, you read a lot and you're forming your mind and then discussing things, you know, with your, with your, you know, confreres and praying. And just think of it almost like it's a type of training to live at a higher level. So the more basic elements of us are given their rightful place. But there's a curving that takes place there, and that's like an arrow and a bowstring to shoot at that target of being in love with God and living out your love for God and for others. But that's all about the reason.

The reason I'm asking you so many questions like that is because it's fascinating to me that somebody with the why of challenge would a pick that b be able to live like that and want to follow it. That's so not in line with what I am expecting, because.

Dan, who, you know, is. Also has a big part of that, and my wife has the why of challenge. And so for me to picture them in that scenario doesn't seem possible. And you lived it, and you live it and you went. You know, you went through it. So that's. I find that fascinating.

Well, love will make you do a lot of things.

You.

You know, and. But, like, if you do. If you think of it from the point of view of you're talking to a man wearing a gray robe, you know, with a shaved head and sandals, and the fact that I've taken three vows. A vow of poverty, a vow of chastity, and a vow of obedience. And I've given by those three vows every single aspect of my entire life to God. You know, poverty means no possessions. So all. Everything that I could own. I don't own anything. I'll never own anything. Your chastity is your body working inwards from the outside in. And you get to give all of your sensitivity, all of your affections, all of that to the love of God. And then obedience, the inside of who you are, putting that as a gift to follow what your superior is asking you to do, which is not an absolute thing, but in the big things of life.

I mean, in the end, that has quite a challenge, and that's quite a statement to our world, you know, and that's why the church, Catholic church, wants the priest to wear this kind of garb. And all that is to remind the world that, in a sense, the people who are really awake, you know, and alert are the ones who are pushing the envelope to get to go to the next level. The whole next level. I mean. And so when we're talking about God and faith, we're talking about the next level. And it's interesting because for as much as there's a lot of gusto in our. Our CEOs and our business community. And, you know, I would kind of, like, sometimes I smile because I'm like, these guys don't go far enough. When you really want to see gusto, start talking about the next life, right? Instead, start living this life as if the next life was real and as if the next day, life, love, anything long. Now part that is a whole Other post.

That is.

Lack.

Leader on your out by your position, power. You could be a leader on the outside by, by what you can do or how you can persuade people. But being a leader on the inside, that's a lot more powerful than impactful because then it's a matter of depth. Everyone who encounters you is changed by it. Well, to become a leader on the inside, that, that, that requires a deeper gift of self than just self development. It's like I said, it's the difference between going, developing yourself and giving yourself, expressing yourself and giving yourself a gift of yourself. Wow, there you go. So in religious life anyway, for me that challenge was found there. Can I really live for the ultimate thing in the midst of, of a whole group of world that doesn't even know that that ultimate thing exists, you know, and can I joyfully bring them along with me? Can I, can I speak a word to them to communicate what I've got inside? I mean there's a, there's a huge amount of challenge in that and my whole lifestyle becomes a challenge to the world to say that there's something deeper, something higher. And we shouldn't be satisfied with just the little things. We should go for the greatest.

Wow. I can imagine. When you went into seminary school, did you know that's what you were signing up for?

Oh sure. That's why you go there.

Yeah.

See, like if you go back, right, you encounter God. Like I encountered God and I had a thirst for it. And then it's a question of, well, is that a mature thing? Is it a balanced thing? Is the Lord really calling you to that? Or you know, and so you take time and you experience life and you go through things and have a job and you know, you play in sports teams and have friends and hang out if you're schooling, but you grow and then as you do more, more serious things and get jobs and like I did teaching school, but also ran my own business, I worked with my hands and I, you know, did all these different things. You're maturing up into that to then say, yeah, who I am. But I now knowing myself, it matches with this desire that I have to go, you know, and to be with him. So that's when you then go to the seminary school. So the vocation coast comes first and then comes the training for it. And the training is really just a really cop. It's an opportunity to really conform everything you've got to that desire to, to live.

It's interesting because when I, the way you're describing that is so similar to the way I hear people talk about going to Special Forces or Special Ops, you know, in the military, what they had to prepare themselves for, to then go, to really be trained to be something special, which is very much what you did, right?

Well, I think in. In a real way, there's the same ethos between a professional, a military person, an athlete, and the religious person. Usually the first three are what we always compare because it was secular, right? But, like, if you. If you think about what priests do or, you know, the monks or the nuns that you never meet, people that are totally unaware we hear about monks, you know. But, like, I'd like to ask for a little bit of respect, you know, on behalf of my religious conference, from the secular people in the world. Even if you don't believe in God, that's okay, but I want you to go and, like, investigate what these guys do. There's a fellow who lives in the foothills here in Denver who has given up absolutely everything meaning for the rest of his life. He lives alone. Lives alone in a life of prayer. Five hours a day, four or five hours a day. And every night at 12:30 in the morning, he wakes up and does an hour of prayer for the world, which means he never sleeps for a complete cycle through the night. The most he'll ever sleep is four hours a night at one time for the rest of his life. And he gave that up. And he's in his early. He's early 50s, and he'll live like that till he's 80. But just. We don't hear about that. So we don't. We don't know to respect it. But I'm. I think we ought to, because could a Navy SEAL or a special Forces operator, would they be willing to go that far? You know, they even give up their physical health for the sake of their prayer or for the sake of the service. You know, I'm thinking of Mother Teresa's sisters in Ethiopia. They opened a home for women who had been cast on the streets for mental. Lack of mental capacities. And the families couldn't take care of them or whatever. And they have 500 of these women living together, taking care of them, their physical health, their mental health, their emotional health. And the sisters themselves bathe in a bucket. They pour a bucket over their heads for. They don't even have a shower. That level of dedication, and they do that for free without anybody knowing them, without any podcast doing anything. You know, it's a. And it amazes me, and I think it. It summons a thought process Every person who just encounters this message about the greatness that. That requires, requires, regardless of your stance on faith in terms of human dedication and. And human sacrifice for this great gift of themselves, because they do it without any gold medals, any newspaper articles, any attention being given to them because they love those kids, and that hermit loves the world. And it's just. It's too bad people don't see it more. But then again, that's all, you know, as part of. Of the mysteries, you know, of life. Right.

That's really fast. I'm so glad that we're having an opportunity to talk, because I wouldn't know that either. I did grow up in Catholic school, but I was never exposed to what actually happens, what it actually takes to become a priest or to live, as you said, a religious life. That's. It's fascinating the level of dedication that you have to have in order to get right, to get where you are. It's.

I'll tell you a story. I was talking with an older friar. He. And when I was a young man, I wanted to be a friar. And so he was an older priest, was probably in his 70s, and he wore a rope around his waist. And then the rope had three knots. They tied big knots in the rope. One standing for poverty, one standing for chastity, one standing for obedience. And I said to him, you know, Father, I really feel called, but I'm scared, you know, I'm scared to do this because, like, I, you know, it's just a lot. And he grabbed the rope and he said, see this rope? I said, yes. And he said, all the money in the world couldn't buy this. The only men who could wear this rope are the ones who've given everything and will never own any. And it made me realize that this is a whole different register you're dealing with here. And yet there are millions of people. Yeah, there's 2 million priests in the. In the church, in the world alone. And then you've got all of the nuns and all the friars and all of the monks. I mean, there's a lot of people living it. And I. I think it. It would be fascinating study if anybody watching is an author, you know, to look at and analyze that from the inside, because you're going to find a metal there, a soul. You know, what it costs to become a monk. Everything. And not just for a short period of your life, for your entire life. So you actually, instead of like, only saying, I'm going to die in the next battle, and I'm ready to Go. We do that every single day. You know, if you're living it well, you know, I don't want to over idealize. We are all, you know, imperfect and sinners, but there's this, at least that. There's a fire deep inside to say that. And, and then what's neat is, Gary, we look, look and we say, well, that's the same thing. That same thing in a husband, it's the same thing. And a business leader, as a matter of fact, that's the same thing on the Navy seal. It's what makes people leaders. And I think that leadership is found inside of those religious people in a beautiful way. And it's not to neglect any other way where leadership is found. I would just rather say it's an, it's a neglected area of study in people's attention. And I think it'd be a really fascinating and opening thing for people to just take a look and, and to think about what the nuns do, what the sisters do in order to be where they are. And you know, priests and you know.

As well, what keeps crossing my mind is.

Did you ever feel like quitting? Did you ever feel. Do you have those. Do they just not exist or do you not have thoughts of. This is too much for me. This is not. I mean, I didn't know it was going to be like this.

What ha.

What goes through you, you mentally during this journey? And I know you're still on the journey, but when you embark on it, how do you keep going? Because that's a lot to ask of an individual.

You know, everyone's different. And like I said, I'm painting a very idealistic picture. And in reality there's a lot of. It's humanity. Humanity in the end. Yeah. So, you know, I don't want to over, you know, idealize something, you know, but the, there's a. To keep going.

It's, it's a question of love.

Just like it is for you. How do you keep going in the dedication of yourself? The religious person has simply chosen to give themselves to God, but the secular person gives themselves as well. And the people that they serve, that they follow, their families, their spouses, this gift of self. So in all of that, what keeps the person going in the gift of self is love. And so for me, I mean, if it's the Lord and the older that you get and the longer that you go, the more that you have to give meaning that there's less of you left. So it becomes, every little drop becomes that much more precious, which makes the gift even more beautiful to. To him. But so I would say to anyone, how do you keep going? You. You go back and you ask yourself, who am I doing this for? And. And who is it whom I'm loving by this? To whom am I giving myself? It's. That's the difference between burnout and. And self sacrifice is that burnout is done in the void or it's done for ourselves. Self sacrifice is when you know very well. And you. You are dads, you know, or moms. They know what those. They look at those kids and they're like. It's like. I think of a mom as like a candle she's lit, and it's beautiful and warm, but the expense of that is all of the wax underneath. And you live to be 80, 85, shining that beautiful light, and then there's nothing left because you've consumed. You've chosen to make your wax into a flame. That's a choice for every human being to do. And that choice is one that's love. I think if we could put more love into our talk instead of, you know, understanding why I'm developing myself. What, you know, is the end really just to nail it in your business. Because it's like, in that line we can do with that business. You're going to sell it and then what? Then you're going to be bored. You know, enough guys to sell their business, and then they're like, what am I supposed to do? So you go scuba diving and then you take your playing lesson and then you're. You're just terribly bored. And now you got Elon Musk wanting to do a cage match with Zuckerberg, you know, because they got nothing else to do. I guess when you, you have billions of dollars, you decide to take up, you know, martial arts, that. That, to me, that has. I'm not interested in that at all. You can keep all of that because there's something deeper than developing yourself for yourself, and that's developing yourself so that you can give yourself to people who you can help and lift up. And if I look at my staff that way, my employees that way, my colleagues that way, people that I meet that way, I. I become a light man.

That is awesome. I was having a conversation with a lady earlier today, and she was talking about how her mother went through dementia and how that journey to the end with her and how she kept thinking, why is this going on? Why am I. Are we having. Why are we dealing with this? Why is. Why did this happen right there seems like there's no sense to this. And then once her mother was gone.

She now became the mentor for others going through the same thing. And it allowed her to. What she learned allows her to give of herself. And I assume there's some of that or a lot of that in what you're learning on your journey that you can give to us that haven't been on that journey.

That's right. And that in the. The secret to all is love. You know, the thing that unites. I mean I would almost say a shallow leader. It could be a quest for self and self development. But anyone who's truly a leader from the inside, secular or not, behavior or not, military, whatever, is that they do it for a deeper purpose, a higher call, a higher cause. And what I simply witnessing to is that God is the highest of all the causes and he's there. And so I found him. And that's my gift of love then to you, to the people I meet, to the world that I'm trying to impact because I notice and challenge. You had that quote on your little sheet there saying if we, we exist to make a dent in the world. You know, I smile to like that's me. You're 100%. And, and yet it. What unites us and that's something we can all embody here is to, is to get out of living for ourselves. You know, I mean there's always a self development and self fulfillment. That's not what I'm saying to like not enjoy life. I'm saying to, to see that you are beautiful and gifted and graced for a reason. And that reason is to bring up everyone whom you meet to be a better, you know, at a better level, to live it at a higher level. And I think we desperately need our leaders in this world today to do that instead of walking through the world, you know, constantly focused on how everyone will bow down to them. Because in the end you're going to be on a hospital bed somewhere and some priests will walk in wearing sandals and a gray robe and we'll tell you you can't take anything with you. The only thing you can take with you is what you give away. I think you take with you is what you give away. So I want you to think about that because that's.

When you say the secret is love. Can you dive a little bit more into that? How do you define love?

Love is seeing. Seeing the other, any other person around you as someone you concern some way, in an appropriate way. I'm not saying to it'll romanticize anything from the cash register person to the person at Walmart who greet you at the door like I'm there, like I'm admiring them. And I'm there to. To bring them up with saying hello back by giving the money the right way, but by being aware of that person. My goodness, at the end of our life, we're not going to have any of our stress or any of our anxieties. We're not going to have anything else that we will have as our heart and so filling the world with love. It sounds sappy, but I'd say. I'd like to say everyone sounds sappy. I want you to try, you know, because I'm gonna. Kind of a little bit sensitive, Gary, to the fact that people today will discount my entire witness of my entire life and discount of people, not just me, but nuns, priests, who've given poverty, chastity, and obedience until death. They'll discount us as being somehow. Well, that's this soft stuff about religion or being nice to people like you. Try being nice people. That'd be kind of neat. Forgive your enemies. How about that? Love those who hurt you. You know, go the extra mile. When someone asks you for one, do two. That's what our Lord told us to do. Now suddenly, whoa, that's going to ask for me a whole different level of commitment. I'm like, exactly. And I'd like to say, regardless of your faith, why don't we adapt what we can of that? You know, if you're a dentist, and I think someone, one of the two of us is a dentist, that you know each one of your patients, that's someone I can treat, like my son. And how would I want to be treated if I was sitting there in the chair, you know, and, and, and then do the same. I'll tell you one thing they wouldn't want, Gary, that's for you to ask them questions or tell them jokes that they can't laugh at. Being a dental patient, it's something else. How are you today? I. Really good.

We're good at that. That's. That's what we. We do. So let's go back now.

You.

So you went off to seminary school, and where was that? And how long was that process? And then what happened to you after that?

So after seminary, I went to France, was in Texas for a year, then I lived in France for seminary. And then in the midst of it, I went to Illinois for two years and came as a part of an itinerary. So I went through the itinerary of seminary. But then you're ordained. I was ordained a priest in 2007. And for me, part of the challenge, I guess, right? I met with three young people who told me that they were all going to leave their religion behind. They were. They thought I was cool, so they wanted to talk to me. One was 16, one was 17. I was 19. And they said that, you know, we're. You know, we don't plan on keeping our faith. Once we get out of. Out of. Out of the house, don't tell mom and dad. And I said, well, why. Why would you leave the faith? And they said, well, why should we stay? And I realized that they didn't. They had no one to show that. Here I was, age 26, you know, completely given to this cause, and here they were. They had no idea what I had discovered. So I said, what if I start something for you? Will you stay? If I. If I could show you how wonderful, could I make a challenge? Give me one week to show you why you should stay? And they said, oh, that'd be great. We would do it, you know. And so I invented a program for them. It's developed into what we call Eagle Eye ministries. Eagle Eye Ministries.org is the website, and. And it's. It's outreach to. To teens, you know, like, oh, this is a Catholic thing, you know, it's. Because I'm a Catholic priest, I kind of. I'm a member of the team, you know, so, like. Yeah, but, like, you get the idea. So I. But I had, like, no experience in youth ministry. I had no desire to work with youth. I just saw a challenge there, and I saw something that had never been done, that wasn't being done effectively for these kids, at least. And so I went in and started, and that program's gone now for 20 years. I don't even know how many young people have gone through it, but. Many. Thousand.

I should say. Many. Several thousand, probably.

What was that challenge that you gave them? That. So you said, give me a week, and I'll show you why you should stay in the church.

That was the challenge.

And what did you show them that allowed him to stay in the church?

Fire.

Fire and love. Wherever there's love there, there's a force that's stronger than anything. So we. We bring them in to, you know, they would be able to pray with us and. And experience things with us that kind of sharing what we do on the inside with them and in their own way, with fun and, you know, all kinds of things. The campfires and a Hiking experience and, you know, silliness and whatever else is appropriate, but allowing them to see that the religion was a relationship. And I find that most people are willing to accept that. Most people that I meet, they accept God. They know, they acknowledge God. All I do is I say, okay, well, if that relationship exists, why not develop it? Just like we develop ourselves for our employees, we develop ourselves for our family. Why don't I develop myself for God? There's a. There's a relationship I can deepen. And by showing them that, I think, you know, it has worked for everybody. I mean, again, everything is flawed. Nothing's perfect in life, but that was the goal. And. And that's what I. I started to do. And then I just developed that ministry. And as we developed it, we realized it needed a structure, it needed organization, it needed accounting, it needed marketing, you know, stuff that we're still working on today. And. And that's what got me fascinated with the world of business, because all my advisors, you know, you enter as a priest to do these amazing spiritual things and to speak with people, but you have to stand on some sort of stage, right, that was built. You have to have a platform of. Of organizational structure of how do you thank volunteers, how do you. How do you work with volunteers? How do you get your word to be recorded and sent out? You know, all these different practical things. Well, every time I needed help, it was the world of business that came to my help. And so I started thinking, well, my goodness, what they're doing is actually what I'm doing, except they're doing a lot better. And so I started reaching out to them to learn. And I just became enamored in admiration for the professionals of this world, the executives of this world, the managers of this world. And I said, I'd like to bring your gifts deeper into the spiritual place of the church. I wish we could show everyone inside of the spiritual world the importance and the beauty and the dedication, the sacrifice and the giftedness and the skill set that you own, that you have. And then everyone that's in your world, I wish you could see the dedication and fire and the grit and also the joy and the love that's in the spiritual thing. And so I wanted to make a bridge. That's what became the St. John Institute. Only reading about a thing called the St. John Leadership Network, and my whole work with leadership is because I see that on the two ends, two sides of the same coin, you've got the business professional and you've got spirituality, and that we tend to Divide them. And as so many business people who unfortunately just feel like spirituality is just not in their wheelhouse, I'm not going there. Not listening to a priest on beyond your. Why, you know, I don't want to, you know, all this kind of stuff. I'm like, well, they're not what, you know, really, like, why is that? Division is because we allowed it to be. And I think actually if I could get the power of spirituality behind your business, wouldn't your business flourish? But it would. If I can get the power of your business behind your spirituality, wouldn't your spirituality flourish? Then that's. That's what I'm working to be.

Wow. And what's the name of your.

It?

Dare to.

Dare Great Things for Christ.

Dare Great Things for Christ.

A podcast that people can listen to called Their Great Things or Dare Great Things for Christ Podcast. And it's all about faith and business. And then I also, you know, I started. I do programs and. And I teach executives and teach management. I go into companies that are. That are secular. You. You know, but you don't have. That's what I mean. It's not a question of faith. It's a question of outlook. Right. And what company don't you want to be bound by love and to have respect and appreciation and listening and also encouragement and challenge and conflict resolution, all these wonderful things that are, like, at the heart of what we do in the church. So just, you know, so I'll go into companies that are secular. I go into companies that are owned by Christians and they. Who want a Christian and help them with the Christian ethos inside the company. But I take the message that's in the gospel, and I just bring that together with a challenge that's in business. And what I really would like is for that the challenge of the business could then come back and help the people of the gospel to become a little bit more, you know, realistic and efficient and. And. And extend their influence, you know, even greater.

So how are you looked at from the other.

People in the Catholic community, the other priests? How do they, you know, you're out there in the secular.

You're.

You're not doing it the way they're doing it. How is that being perceived? And how's that going for you?

Oh, it's great. You know.

You definitely stand out. You know, if the church is a hand, there's four fingers and a thumb. You know, so I'm, I'm. That's all part of that. That challenge in the wild. Yes. Right. Like, yes, it's going fine. But, like, if this, you know, it's qualified, I would say that, you know, priests are excited because priests care. And most of your priests, these are guys who spent. Who have masters in theology, who speak multiple languages, who are cultivated with many incredible habits of culture and art, music and these different things, and yet who are then straddled with a $3 million budget and a staff that they don't even know how to look at a spreadsheet. They don't know what a balance sheet is. They don't know HR policies or laws. They don't know what interview questions they can ask in a hiring process. And that's a woeful inadequacy and one that I hope to be able to help, you know, and. And by making good contacts in the world of business and bringing them to teach and to form and to dialogue, because our church needs that. But therefore, they know and they need to have stronger professionals in their lives. I think if you are around any priests or ministers or clerics or rabbis or whatever religion you are, befriend them a little bit, because they usually will pretty quickly start asking you for help. And I think that that's kind of neat. Terms of my ministry itself, it's embraced, but it's certainly not the focus. Where the Catholic ministry really focus itself is the family. Family baptizing the kids, keeping the marriage together, blessing them with. It's like the life cycle is the. And so I'm pushing that envelope a little bit, actually, a lot, you know, by developing and going into this. And I know a few other priests, maybe 4 out of 2 million, that are trying. But it wouldn't surprise me if it catches on more because it's not as if anyone's against it. It's just more like it. It's not the typical wing. No.

So.

How are you different as a priest now than you were, say, when you were 30?

I'm a lot.

More realistic about my limitations.

I'd like to think I'm a lot hungrier.

A lot freer to. To just love the Lord and to do it for Henry.

I'd like to think that. That I have a deeper perspective also on my target. You know, when. When you're younger, it's. There's things to achieve and to hit, but they're not always the most important things to achieve or hit. And as you journey through you, you start to see where people really need the messaging and what you need to do as a messenger to really bring that messaging to a. And it's a Different level.

You know, and it's just like in life, it's like when you're married, I tell couples all the time it takes 50 years to be married, you know, and if you were to look at your marriages and say, where was I? Ten years. Ten, you know, and then now, 30 years later, you'd kind of smile and you'd be like, I'm more married. Well, I'm much more a priest. You know, you become this gift.

It's a. Hopefully 30 years from now, I'll be able to say the exact same thing and be a lot less about me and a lot more about him and about the people that I serve. I've learned an experience in this. You know, I'm young in the priesthood. I'm not the eminent old, old priest yet. Hopefully I will be one day. But what I, what I've seen is to admire the people. And it's so powerful. You get to witness the human person in ways few people do. Medical doctors are just the body. The lawyer is just your problems. The priest is your heart.

And I'm just in awe. And so I think I'm growing in a deeper and deeper awareness of just how majestically wonderful every human being is, you know, And I'm growing it. I'm a sinner and I'm full of weaknesses and I'm not perfect at all. But like, that's my aspiration, right? That's what's deep inside it. And it's something that every time I get close to it, makes me very profoundly happy.

I love that. Father Nathan, what's the best piece of advice you've ever been given or the best piece of advice you've ever given?

Oh, you know, it's so hard to say. That's a tough one. How about we just do a good piece of advice that I've been given? Can we do that, Gary?

Yes.

You know how that is. It's like, what's your favorite movie? It's like, well, yeah, it's never really honest because in fact, we have 10 of them. So good. A good piece of advice that is. Sticks with me, is where the world lightly. Where are the world lightly? And that was from a speaker that I heard, another priest, actually. But it made a lot of sense. It's almost like don't take yourself too seriously. Right. Where the world lightly, Lightly. You know, to not allow yourself to be chained in to the weight of things. The beautiful phrase that he used was your life should be like a firework display. It's there. It explodes in beauty. It and then it's gone. So like, don't take it too seriously. You know, at the same time, give you the best of yourself to God, if that's where you're going. And then the best advice that I ever gave, don't listen to me.

I don't know as people might there gave Gary, I probably gave a lot of bad advice. So I keep my mouth shut. I'll tell you something else someone told me once that I think is a good one and for everyone to remember, you know, regardless of your faith, is the, the. A fella told me once, he said, do God's will and go out the back door.

I think that that's a good one for us all. I think God's will and then go out the back.

That's awesome. When you took the why Os discovery and it came up with your why of challenge and then your how was better way finding better ways. And ultimately what you bring are solutions that make sense. What did that feel like to you?

Oh, it felt like, you know. Yeah, I thought, I don't know how we got that out for so few questions because you nailed it. You know, I thought maybe the description, I'm not quite as artistically oriented, but like, like I said, you curve a lot. So maybe the typical challenge personally. But like, I, I thought it was really great because it, it showed me that it, it just verified, you know, stuff that who I was. But I thought that's an interesting take on who I am to figure that out because that's what I do. So I challenge the status quo in a million different ways, obviously, from starting my own things to inventing things that don't exist, to becoming religious in the presence of the world, to, you know, vows of chastity, poverty, obedience. But then I also like to do it the better way to take things that they are as they are and to push. But then the common sense solution. So the how of that's what I do. I'd make the most complex. Listen, I speak five languages, I read the Bible in Greek, you know. So like for me to. Then, you know, to, to. To think that we could have all of that knowledge and then not make that present. To the simple questions people have, how do I live? Who am I? Where am I going? What's life all about? That's like, that's a shame. So what I want to do is take the complex stuff and make it extremely simple and practical for folks. And so I just laughed myself. I wonder how they invented a test to find that out.

Well, I'M glad, I'm glad we did and I'm glad we had a, an opportunity to talk because this has been fascinating and you've opened my eyes to a lot of things I hadn't really thought of either. And I'm sure you have the, the listeners or people watching this as well, because you're not typical. You're not. You know, maybe let me ask you one more question. I could probably ask you questions for forever, but what is the biggest challenge that you run into.

In being able to connect with others?

And I'll tell you where I was going with that because I wonder if people.

Are reluctant to connect with you for fear of being judged 100%.

Yeah. You know, I wear this outfit everywhere I go every day for 24 years of my life. I've worn it everywhere I've gone. Airport stores, the Denver Broncos games, Denver Nugget games. I, I wear this everywhere I go. I don't take it off except for like if I'm doing sports or whatever. But. And you know, I would say one person out of 10,000 will ask a question about it. And you know that it challenged them to like, they don't know what it is. They don't know who I am, but they don't ask. And I think that that's. To your point. I think that there's a big intimidation factor and that people feel that, that, that somehow whether they're not worthy of, of, of speaking up or of asking a question. It takes a lot of self esteem to just ask a question to, to someone like, why are you dressed like that? Who are you? Tell me your story. That one. No one ever asks. They just, why are you dressed like that when you try to tell them? But it's amazing to me because very quickly it shuts down. So yeah, I think that the challenge, I would say comes more from, from the folks themselves because I'm just. They're happy to serve and the whole life is to try to give and to help people wherever they are, to be the best person they are, atheist or narcissist or criminal, to shine the light of love on them somehow. But there is an obstacle in that I represent 2000 years of a history that's full of failures and flaws and that's hurt a lot of people. It's helped a lot more. I'd like to thing at the same time there's all of that present and I represent it and I represent a God that many people are at that have a hard time with. So the biggest challenge in connecting with people, I would say it's to let them see that I'm real.

To let them see past this.

Who, that. That I'm real on the other side as a human being. To, to allow them that once you do well, then there's a bridge. That's me. And we can. And I can also be blessed by that.

I feel like next time I see you or when I see you, you're going to have a sign on you that just says, you know, come say hi or something like that, you know, because.

I think it would be awesome for people to connect with you and just spend some time with you and not be fearful of being judged.

I'm worse than you. I think it's neat because, you know, when you're a priest and you're hearing confessions, you're in. You're in awe of the person who's in front of you, and you know you're no better than them. And listening to confessions makes you so incredibly humble because you're listening to the greatness of the person who's sitting there with love in their hearts, speaking of their fight for what's beautiful and true and good in the world. And it's just like people shouldn't be afraid of being judged. A priest that acts that way, you know, is unfortunately just not in his best. Right. Like.

I don't, you know, if you remember why the man did it, why is he standing there dressed that way? And then you think he did it because he wanted to be available to me.

Hopefully that can help.

Well, thank you so much for being here today. This has been really enlightening and, and very enjoyable. And if there's people that are listening or watching that want to connect with you, want to learn more about you, want to follow you, what's the best way for them to get in touch with you?

The St. John Institute. So there's a website that's right up there, st.johninstitute.org and just, you know, hit the contact form and fill it out, reach out. I'd love to, you know, to follow up. And we, we do a lot of excellent programs. So I'm not exactly sitting here feeding the birds like your little fryer bird bath lawn decoration. I say that much like we're. We're trying to make a dent in the world. So. But like, I'd be happy to say hello.

That's great. Thank you so much for being here.

God bless you.

I really hope you enjoyed today's episode and that through today's guest, you heard how important it is to know your why and how impactful it can be in your life and the lives of those around you. Be sure to head over to whyinstitute.com and discover your why today. Remember, the more you know about yourself, the more you'll know about others. I'm Dr. Gary Sanchez, and I'll see you on the next episode.