The WHY Of Contribute: Making An Impact On Society Through Speaking With Grant Baldwin

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Welcome to beyond you'd why Podcast where we go beyond just talking about your why and actually help you discover and then live your why. You see, we believe that knowing your why, that driving force behind every decision you make and every action you take, is the essential first step to really knowing yourself. It allows you to move forward faster and have a bigger impact. If you're already a fan of the show, then you know that every week we talk about one of the nine whys and then we introduce you to somebody with that why so you can see how their why has played out in their life. This show will be more powerful for you if you've already discovered your why. If you still need to do that, head over to whyinstitute.com and discover your why today. It'll only take you about five minutes. Now let's meet today's guest.

Welcome to beyond you'd why podcast. We go beyond just talking about your why and actually helping you discover and then live your why. So if you're a regular listener, you know that every week we talk about one of the nine whys and then we have someone on with that why so we can see how their why has played out in their life. And so this week we're going to be talking about the why of contribute. So if this is your why, then you want to be part of a greater cause, something that is bigger than yourself. You don't necessarily want to be the face of the cause, but you want to contribute to it in a meaningful way. You love to support others and you relish success that contribute to the greater good of the team. You see group victories as personal victories. You are often behind the scenes looking for ways to make the world better. You make a reliable and committed teammate and you often act as the glue that holds everyone else together. You use your time, money, energy and resources to to add value to other people and organizations. And so today I've got a great guest for you. His name is Grant Baldwin. Now Grant is the founder and CEO of the Speaker Lab. He has helped thousands of people build successful and sustainable speaking businesses over the last 15 years. Grant has become a sought after speaker, podcaster, author and accomplished entrepreneur. Featured in Inc. 500 list 4 Forbes entrepreneur and the Huffington Post. He has committed his expertise and insight to equipping others to share their meaningful message with the masses. With a mission to motivate other leaders and entrepreneurs, Grant has developed a training course with the Speaker Lab completed by over 2000 speakers and counting and created a multitude of additional resources for speakers with varying levels of experience. His leadership and dedication to creating a one of a kind organizational culture of are evidenced by the impact of the team he leads. Grant's favorite moments are those spent with his high school sweetheart Sheila and their three daughters. They live in Nashville, Tennessee where Grant enjoys playing pickleball, summer days at the pool, and living the life of Chuck Norris. Grant, welcome to the podcast.

Hi Gary. Thanks for letting me hang out with you, man. I appreciate it.

This is going to be fun. So the timing of this is perfect because there's so many people that I know in particular and so many of our listeners that are coaches, that are speakers, that are entrepreneurs, that are going to be speakers. So this is great to have you on the podcast. So let's go back in your life. Tell us, you know, where did you grow up? Where were you born? What were you like in high school?

Born and raised in Springfield, Missouri, Southwest Missouri, and grew up in kind of a normal middle class home. My dad was actually a worked at radio for most of his career and then when I was probably middle school or so, he was working in these totally switched careers and was working in the power co op space and was doing like marketing consulting for them. So a bit of like a freelancer that we would think about it today. And so that was kind of my first foray into like him working from home, having some freedom, having some flexibility. I was like, that seems like a nice gig. I wouldn't mind doing that. Just kind of that entrepreneurial bug. My mom has been in healthcare her entire profession and in high school my parents actually split up, which had a big impact in my world. And at the time, I think in part because of that, I got really involved in my local church. My youth pastor had a big impact in my life and I, that was really kind of the path I was on. I was like, I want to do that. Like, that seems like a rewarding, fulfilling career. And if I could make the kind of impact in others that he made in my own life, I thought that seems really, really interesting. And so that's kind of the direction I was headed. I went to Bible college as a youth pastor for a little while and then kind of got a little taste of speaking, which I'm sure we'll get into. But yeah, I would say I had a pretty, you know, other than my parents splitting up, had a pretty what felt at the time and even looking back like felt like a normal middle class childhood. In high school I was really involved in my local church and had some various leadership roles There was speaking is one of those things that I had an opportunity to get on stage a few times and the bug kind of bit me there. It was like, I think I could do this, would love to do more of this. Even in college I worked for a guy who was a full time speaker, so kind of got to see a little bit behind the scenes of what that was like. But yeah, there was the highs and lows to childhood and high school life, but everything led to this moment and so I'm happy with how things have turned out.

So, okay, high school in Springfield, then where did you go to college?

I went to college in Springfield as a small little private college, Central Bible College, and it actually merged with another school. So it's not even there now. Yeah, that's where I was at.

Okay, so you got done with college and then what was your first career path? What was your first job?

Yeah, first career thing was a youth pastor at another church. So I did that for about a year and a half or so. That gave me a lot of opportunities to speak. And I was speaking on a weekly basis to students and then from time to time I'd get to speak on the weekend and big church and just got a couple at bats there and just felt like again, it was kind of one of those things I really enjoyed, felt like I was decent at it, wanted to do more of it. And when my wife was pregnant with our oldest daughter. Gary, I know you understand this. There's nothing like bringing a kid into the world that just causes you to question everything. And so as a youth pastor, there are parts of it I like, parts of I didn't like. But one thing I really enjoyed was speaking. And so I was kind of like, I think I want to give this speaking thing a shot. But I wasn't really sure, like, what does that even mean? And what does that look like? And how do you find gigs and what do you speak about and who hires speakers and how much do you charge and like, how does this mysterious black box of speaking work? And so I started emailing other speakers and just stalking speakers and harassing speakers because at the time there just, there wasn't any, like coaching or training. There weren't books or resources or podcasts on this. And so it was just kind of a diy, figure it out on your own. And so my best effort to figure it out was just emailing a bunch of speakers, pestering them, trying to get a couple answers and piecing some stuff together and try to take action on it.

So take us Back to your very first speech or your very first sermon. What was that like for you? How old were you? How did it go?

I think after being a youth pastor and then kind of like my first paid, I'd say legit gig being a pastor.

That's a legit gig. I mean, it seems like that's even more of a legit gig than a speaker because you got to do it every week and you got to be different and you got to be on and there's a lot of pressure. I would have guessed.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. It was, you know, one of the, you know, pros and cons of being in ministry and speaking is you have largely the same audience every week. So, you know, most of times as a professional speaker, you're telling a lot of the same stories, you're doing a lot of the same material. Each time you tell a story, you're getting real time feedback from that audience. And then when you tell it the next time, it becomes better and better and better over time. Whereas in ministry, when you're speaking, you have the same audience, so you tell a story that kills this week, you can't tell the same story next week. And so, boy, it forces you to come up with a new content. Sunday's always coming and you got to come up with new material. So it just, you know, it definitely there were upsides to that that helped you to figure out real quick if you could keep up with this at a sustainable pace.

So I've always wondered that. I mean, because I speak as well and it's basically the same presentation with some tweaks here and there, wherever you go, but to do a different one every week, there's a lot of skill involved there. Right?

Yeah, well, it just, I think it takes a lot of preparation, you know, and you got to have a good system. You know, if you are doing 30 to 40 to 50 new talks a year, that's a lot of stuff. And so just having a good system in place now, thankfully for me, like, if I was speaking, let's say, with the students, it's a little bit more casual. And so, you know, you're having more discussions and small group type stuff. So it's not like you're having a, like a 60 minute keynote every single week or something like that. And even the times that I'd speak on the weekends and the main services, it wasn't like I was speaking every single week. So I might speak five, six times a year. And so that was even though it was having to be five or Six new talks. It wasn't like, you know, week after week after week where you're trying to come up with something new. But, you know, I always knew kind of what my schedule was, so I knew, hey, something, you know, Sunday's coming and two months, and I got to have something to say and kind of, here's what the series is or here's what the topic is. So it also helps you to kind of put up your radar, you know. So if I knew I was speaking on, I don't know, you know, being a good parent, then I'm kind of, you know, between point A and point B, I'm kind of just looking for things that are on my radar related to parenting and illustrations or stories or things that have happened in my own life or anything related to that that I could utilize or tie in. Maybe something I saw in a magazine or an article that I read or YouTube video or whatever. But just having your radar up of, hey, something new, you know, some type of new presentation has got to come together. So you don't want to, like, sit down the night before and like, all right, what are we going to talk about? You know, but collecting those thoughts and starting to organize them into something and having that ready, you know, a few days out. So one thing I did is I spent a lot of time and still would spend a lot of time practicing and preparing. I think, you know, there's kind of a misconception that the best speakers in the world, they scribble a couple of ideas on a napkin, and then they just hop up there and wing it and shoot from the hip, and it just doesn't work like that. They really spend a lot of time practicing, preparing, rehearsing behind the scenes. And so when they hop up on stage, it looks supernatural. It looks like they're just shooting from the hip. It looks like they're just talking off the cuff, but that's not the case at all. So they really do spend a lot of time. So I try to spend a lot of time just making sure that when I got up there, that even though it was the first time I was presenting this, that I felt confident and prepared.

What would you say is the best thing that you learned from giving a different talk every week? Because most of us, if not all of us, will never do that. You did that for however many years. What's the most valuable lesson you learn from a different talk every week?

Yeah, I think it just forces you to get good at content, of finding content, of identifying content, of learning what works. Because Again, you and I probably have the same three, four, five stories that we tell over and over and over again. And so it's easy to become complacent and kind of lazy to just like, I just know this material works. And so I just keep going back to this versus going. If I couldn't tell any of those five stories again, then I gotta find something different. And so, you know, there's a speaker friend of mine, he calls it the new two, meaning that every time he speaks, even though a lot of the content is content he's done before, he forces himself to find a new 2, 2 minutes that he has never presented before. Every time he does this two new minutes, and sometimes maybe you present that two minutes and maybe it goes somewhere and like, hey, this works and I'm going to turn it into five minutes or seven minutes or maybe hey, doesn't work. It makes it to the cutting room floor, but it just, it forces you to be into the rhythm and routine of I gotta try new stuff, new stuff, new stuff versus, you know, just resting on what's worked and thinking that that'll always be the case.

The other thing that seems like it would have been really valuable because when I think back to my first speaking events versus where I am now, just the nervousness of interacting, it was all about me. You know, you get up to it for the first time. I hope I don't look stupid, I hope I don't sound bad. I hope you know all the things that you go through. Whereas after you've done so many like you have, you become really good at interacting with the audience, interacting with the crowd, and being able to engage differently with that level of comfort.

Well, I think one thing that's interesting, like especially in the church world, in the ministry world, is when you have the same audience, they're at least familiar with you. Meaning that whenever you're go speaking to, if you do 50 events in a year and it's 50 different clients, then every time you speak you're trying to assess, you're trying to build rapport with the audience, trying to build connection with the audience. They have no idea who you are. Whereas when you're speaking to the same audience on some type of consistent basis, you at least have some type of familiarity there. So you don't have to go into too much background of who you are and why you're here and kind of, you know this song and dance. But for the most part, for the most, for most of the audience, you've got some type of connection there. Because they're already familiar with you. So it's kind of like the. It's the difference between a. If you go see a comedian and it's a difference between going to a comedy club just to see any comedian, whoever's up there that's telling jokes versus, you know, you bought a ticket to see a specific comedian or to see a specific band, just. Versus just going to a music venue and just, I just want to hear some live music. So there's at least some familiarity there that makes a big difference in terms of the rapport that's already been established.

Okay, so you graduated from college, then started as a pastor at a church, then went outside the church and started doing other more secular type talks. And so what prompted that direction and what were you speaking about?

Yeah, so I did a lot in the education space. I did a lot in high schools and colleges, you know, working with students. It was kind of a world that I was familiar with and kind of understood. And so it kind of lended itself well to speaking in that world. There's a couple guys that I knew that were doing some speaking in that world. I was also. I was pretty young myself, 24, 25 at the time. And so, you know, the idea of speaking to corporate CEOs or something that are just like, man, you could be my son, you know, so there's a few times where, in fact, early on I worked with a seminar company and they would book me to go out and speak and kind of presenting their content. And so I'd speak on time management or organization or that sort of thing. And a lot of times they'd send me to environments where I was the youngest person in the room. And so there's a lot of imposter syndrome, especially early on, of like, who. Who am I to be here? What? You know, I don't have anything to bring to the table. And so, yeah, so I did a lot of school assemblies, a lot of student leadership conferences. And it was like those were environments that just forced you to be a good speaker. You know, there's some. You have a lot of adult audiences that are polite and friendly, and if you're not doing a good job, they'll still smile and nod and play along. But, you know, if you're talking to a group of 15, 16, 17 year olds that don't want to be there, you better be good as a speaker to keep them engaged. And so I think that that also just helped me to become better as a speaker over time because those are definitely unique audiences. And Unique environments.

Okay, so from education, then where did you end up and then how did you get into now coaching other speakers?

Yeah, so I was a full time speaker for several years. You know, the first year or so you're doing 20 or 30 events and then 20 to 30 to 40 events and 40 to 50. And got to a point where I was doing about 70 gigs a year and really, really enjoyed it. And there's a lot of fun. The nature of speaking is that it's a high paying manual labor job in that I would get paid really, really well to stand on stage and talk. But the nature of it was I had to leave my family, I had to get on a plane, I had to go somewhere. It's kind of like a surgeon. A surgeon makes really good money, but the nature of surgery is you get show up and do surger. So I felt like I had a good job, but I didn't necessarily have a business. There's kind of limited flexibility. And so it's kind of like, well, now what? You know, what do I do from here on? And there was really the only way to broaden your impact or your reach or your income is you either have to do more gigs or you have to charge more. I was already at the upper limit of what I felt comfortable charging in that particular industry in the education space. And I didn't necessarily want to be on the road anymore. So it's kind of like, all right, well, now what? And so at the time I started noticing more, it's just probably 2013, 2014, started noticing more podcasts and online training and just kind of this online, online business world. And at the time, I had a lot of people who were asking me and saying, I want to be a speaker. How would I go about doing that? And a lot of times what would happen is people would use the phrase, and we probably both said this phrase to other people as well, is, how did you get into that? People would ask, how did you get into that? And so what I decided to do is at the time, I was doing a lot of speaking around the topic of careers, helping people think through, figure out what they wanted to do with life, especially high school college students. And so I started a podcast called how did you get into that? Where we were interviewing just interesting, unique people who had crazy careers. So a guy who was a LEGO master builder, one of the top Lego builders, builders in the world, a guy who has worked for Nike and worked with Michael Jordan designing the Air Jordans, a guy who was an NBA mascot, a lady who was a cheesemonger. She was one of the top cheese experts in the world. So these types of careers where you're talking to people going, like, I don't necessarily personally want to do that, but it's just fascinating that you make a career from that. How did you get into that? What does that look like? So I did that for a little while and then again had a lot of people asking me, like, hey, how did you get into that? I want to be a speaker. How would I do that? And so at that point started doing like a little bit of coaching, a little bit of teaching around that. I just really, really enjoyed it. I felt like we were creating a solution to the problem that I had. When I got started, there wasn't anyone who was readily available with. There was no podcast or coaching or training or books or resources about how do I become a speaker. And so we tried to just kind of create some resources that I wish I had when I got started. And so one thing we quickly figured out is there's a lot of people who are interested in speaking, a lot of people who could do this that just need some help in the next step. So I know for me, when I got started, I felt like I had the potential, but I needed the plan. I had the potential, but I needed to plan. Meaning felt like I was a decent speaker. It wasn't the best, wasn't the worst. Was knew that there was something there, but I just needed the plan. I just needed someone to tell me, like, man, I can do the work. Just show me what to do, tell me what steps I need to take, what are the action items I need to execute on here. And so I felt like there's a lot of people in that same spot. And so that's when we started leaning into the speaker training and coaching that has evolved into what we do today.

So who would be an ideal client for you? Who are you looking to have connect with you, and why would they be looking for you?

Again, there's a lot of people who are interested in speaking, a lot of people listening who have done some speaking. And so maybe it's something just fell in your lap. It was kind of a word of mouth thing. It was referral. It was something for your company, it was something that was a friend recommended you to. And a lot of times it's kind of like this. We enjoy speaking and we want to do more of it, but we just. We don't know what to do next. Right? Do I just sit back and I wait for other people? To magically find me, do I just click my heels together and close my eyes really tight and then hopefully another gig falls in my lap. And you know, we both understand and everybody listening understands like that's not a way to build a business. And so rather than being reactive, we want to teach people to be proactive and understanding the steps that you need to to build and grow a speaking business. Now for everyone listening, there's gonna be people who are listening that may hear like, boy, I would love to do 60, 70, 100 gigs a year. I'd love to be a full time speaker. And other people that are like, that has zero appeal to me. I would love to do, you know, five or ten gigs a year maybe in addition to, you know, what I'm already doing in my business or within my company, maybe in addition to my coaching or consulting, maybe using it as lead generation for some other stuff that I'm doing. So we wanna do some level of speaking, but we just, we don't know how to get started. We don't know what, we don't know. How do I find gigs, what do I charge, who hires speake, what do I speak about? Like, how does this mysterious black box of speaking work? And so that's who we work with is try to demystify that give a roadmap and a framework for how do you consistently be able to find and book paid gigs and also share your message with others.

Okay, so this is probably crossing the minds of people listening and it was just crossing my mind. What's it you said you did 70 gigs one year?

Yep.

Tell us what that is really like. I mean, is that a positive, a negative? Obviously you made a lot of money, obviously you did a lot of traveling, but what's that like?

It's a blast, you know, it's really, really fun. I'll give you the highs and the lows of it. You know, you spend the upside is, you know, travel can be really, really fun. You know, in terms of I've been to 49 US states, been to multiple countries and you know, been able to see a lot of parts of the country that most people will never see in a lifetime. That's really cool. It's really enjoyable. The downside on that, on the travel part is, you know, you're away from the family, you are sleeping in another hotel, you're eating hotel food on or food on the road. And just like that can be, you're like, I just want a home cooked meal, you know, so there's certainly a lot of that the upside is it's, you know, it's not bad speaking and having hundreds or thousands of people listening to you, people wanting to shake your hand or take pictures with you, or ask for your autograph or give you a standing ovation. Like most people don't get applause when they do their job. And so to finish, like sharing some ideas and everybody claps for you, that's pretty fun. There's certainly like a lot of upside to it. There's also like the being a speaker, the actual speaking part is a very small part of it. Meaning, like you spend a lot of time waiting. You're waiting backstage, you're waiting on planes, you're waiting in airplane airports, you're waiting in hotels, you're waiting in rental cars. You're just waiting. And then you do your thing, you do your little dog and pony show and then you go back to waiting and you're heading home. So doing 60, 70 gigs a year led to being on the road 80, 90 nights a year. This also can be a little bit cyclical over the course of a year. Meaning you would have seasons where you were busy. You may have four gigs in seven days and you're just on the road going from city to city to city. And then you may have. December would be really slow. Nobody's really booking things around the holidays. You may be gone for a long stretch of of week to week to week, but then you may be home for a full month and not going anywhere. And my wife's going like, hey, you got a gig or something you could go do, you know. So it kind of like comes and goes in waves. But yeah, it's really, really enjoyable knowing that you're doing something that's making an impact. You're making a difference. You're able to travel, you're able to connect with some great people. You're able to make a difference with the work that you're doing. So, you know, there's downsides, but it's also incredibly rewarding and fulfilling.

Yeah, I was talking to a friend of mine that does a lot of speaking a lot more than I do. And I think he said one year he did 134 event. And he said it was mind numbing. I mean, it was just too much. That was too much. He did four in one day kind of thing. And it was just, you know, I don't know how you can function that way.

But a high is really high.

It's very high. Yeah. And I think one of the things that's actually great, you know, we can dig into this if you want is actually the pandemic's been really, really good for the speaking industry. And so what I mean by that is prior to Covid, virtual speaking wasn't really ever a thing. You know, it wasn't anything that event planners were taking seriously. It wasn't something that speakers were taking seriously. Covid hits all events just come to a screeching hal other options. And so virtual speaking becomes the only game in town. And for several months there's kind of the wild wild west of everyone kind of figuring out what this new normal looked like from a speaking presenting standpoint. But now what we've seen happen is a couple years later, hopefully we've come out of the pandemic more and more each day we're seeing that live events have come back with a vengeance because in part they haven't happened for a while. People crave being together in person. There's nothing that compares to being together with other human beings in a room. And so I know even in the handful of events that I've been to in recent months that people are like, we're back, we're together. This is awesome. You know, hugs and high fives and handshakes, like people crave that type of community and atmosphere that a live event can provide. Now what's happened though is although live events have come back, they have not come back in replacement of virtual events. They've come back in addition to meaning there's a lot of virtual events that continue to exist. And so what we've seen is we've seen more events than ever because of both live events and virtual events existing. We're also seeing a lot of like hybrid events that are taking place where a speaker may come in and speak in person, but there's a virtual audience audience or where speakers are speaking in person once and then maybe they're doing three months of follow up zoom calls where they're, where they're going deeper on the content or helping to apply the content that was presented. And so it sounds weird, but I think the pandemic is one of the best possible things to happen to the speaking industry. And it's created enormous new opportunities that didn't previously exist. And so all that to say, you know, there's a lot of opportunities now for people to say, hey, I want to be a speaker, but I don't want to be on the road that much. Great, that exists now, whereas that didn't exist, you know, two and a half years ago. And so there's a Lot of speakers who are killing it and doing it while staying home. Now, obviously, again, there's pros and cons, there's trade offs to virtual speaking versus in person speaking. But again, point being, there's a lot more opportunities and options that exist today with virtual speaking that didn't previously exist.

And that was going to be my next question, which is, what have you noticed to be the difference between virtual speaking and live speaking?

Yeah, I mean, it just doesn't compare to being together in person. One of the big parts, one of the best parts of speaking is that is being able to feed off the energy of the audience and being able to see people nodding or taking notes or laughing or smiling or elbowing their neighbor or anything like that. And you just, you lose all of that with virt. You are one person. Even right now, as you and I are talking, you know, we are each individual sitting in our own rooms and basically talking to ourselves via a screen. And so it's just a different atmosphere, It's a different environment. It's not that. Again, it's bad. You know, it still works and it still is effective. You know, giving a virtual presentation. You're able to give multiple presentations in the same day to multiple states and multiple audiences or multiple countries. You can have attendees from literally all over the world. And so it opens up opportunities that just physically and geographically are not possible whenever it comes to physical in person speaking. And so there's pros and cons to it, but there's absolutely nothing that compares to being together live in person with an audience.

So have you noticed that the presentation has to be different for a virtual audience versus a live audience?

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, just because someone's a good in person speaker doesn't necessarily mean they are a good virtual speaker. And I think a lot of speakers found that out early on in the pandemic is that some stuff that may work in person doesn't translate online and vice versa. You know, so we have to figure out how do you engage an audience, how do you keep an audience with you? Because the other thing that's difficult in a virtual environment is all the audiences is watching on a screen right now, where you are also going to be competing with other tabs, with their email, with a text message, with the tv, with slack, with other notifications that may be popping up. Whereas when you're in person, you may still have some of those things, but it's a little bit harder for them to be massively distracted when you are sitting there right in front of them. In person talking. But whenever you're just a talking head on a screen, they can turn off their camera, they're muted, they're not necessarily having to talk. It's just a little bit easier for them to be. To get distracted. And so you've got to. To be aware of that and make sure that you are looking for other opportunities and ways to keep them engaged.

So have you got any tips or secrets for us that can help us keep people engaged on a virtual presentation?

Yeah, some of it depends on the nature of the presentation and kind of how long it is, how big of the audience is that sort of thing. But one thing that you can do is really utilize the chat. And so, you know, simple things like every few minutes, just kind of these pattern interrupts of, you know, if you're with me, just type Ben with you, you know, or tell me in the chat where you're from. Or, you know, raise your. If this has ever happened to you, say type I in the chat. You know, anything like that. Where normally you might be like, hey, how many of you have ever experienced this? Raise your hand. And people would actually physically raise their hand or, you know, turn to your neighbor and say this or nod your head if you've had this experience. And like, some of those kind of like interactive experiences that we would do in person, we can still do those virtually. And so we just have to, you know, chat's a good way to do that. That kind of again, forces people to re engage and to lock in. And also, I think utilizing slides can be helpful and effective. So it's just not, it's not just a talking head, but it's giving them something to look at. If you're going through SL quickly, again, keeps them engaged in the same way that if you're watching, you know, TV show or a sitcom, like they're changing scenes and they're changing camera angles, you know, every few seconds. Because they just know that people's attention spans gonna start to wane and they're gonna start to lose interest and be distracted. And so you gotta keep people on their toes and keep mixing it up. Also just say like the length of a presentation, you know, so if you were talking with a potential client and they said, hey, we wanna do three hours on zoom, like that just sounds like a disaster. Like zoom fatigue's a real thing. None of us wanna do that. So keeping it short, keeping it concise and probably half the length of what an in person would be. So if you were going to do, you know, three hours trying to keep it to hour and a half or an hour and just tightening up everything. And even, you know, an hour and a half or an hour is a long time on just staring at a Zoom screen. So again, just things that you, you want to be aware of. You can also do Q and A and kind of mix it up with that or do some type of breakout groups. There's a lot of good breakout room options within Zoom that you can do to kind of just mix up the formatting of a presentation.

So when you would speak on stage, did you typically speak with a presentation deck or were you typically speaking without one?

As far as slides, I typically have not used slides. And there's pros and cons to slides. Slides can be really, really beneficial for again, keeping an audience engaged. I think slides can also be a big, big distraction for speakers. And so we always tell speakers is if you're going to use slides, you want to use them as an enhancement, not a replacement to your presentation. So here's a way to think about this. I remember a few years ago, my wife was attending a conference and she texted me. She was in a session and she said that the presenter was there and they said that they couldn't give their talk because their slides wouldn't work. And so a good L test would be, let's say you have slides and five minutes before you're going to go up, the projector fails, the computer crashes, something happens and you can't give your presentation with the slides. The presentation should still be able to stand on its own. It should still be solid. And so what happens oftentimes is slides become a crutch. They become cue cards for a speaker. And that just takes away from the presentation. If you're just going to use it. If you're just going to pop up slides with text on them and just read off everything that's on there, then like, just play a video you like. You don't have to actually be there. And so again, there's nothing wrong with slides. Slides can be really, really powerful and really, really effective. But they should be an enhancement and not a replacement for your talk.

I almost think that it takes a better speaker to speak without slides because it's all on you. The focus is 100% on you. There is no getting around that one. You can't show something funny or you can't just throw something up that's interesting. It's gotta be all about you. So it feels that way. I don't know. What's your take on that?

Yeah, absolutely. Like, you've gotta be a solid speaker. You know, again, if you're using slides as a crutch and you can use it in a crutch in a coup different ways, meaning, like, I'm just going to put up some stuff and the image is going to capture people's attention. And so I means I can be less engaging for a few moments there while people are looking at an image or watching a video or something like that. You have nothing up on a screen that people can look at. Like, you, you gotta be good on stage. The other thing is like when speakers use their slides as cue cards and just going like, I'm trying to remember what comes next and so, next slide. Oh, okay, now, you know, I think it can just become a cop out, you know, you become lazy. I remember at a conference a couple years ago I was speaking at and I was backstage and was talking with a speaker who's getting ready to go on. He was upse obsessed with his slides and just making sure, okay, this slide and this slide. And it's like, man, like, what about the talk? You know, like, that's what people are here for. They want to. And again, there's nothing wrong with slides, so don't hear what I'm not saying. But again, should be an enhancement, not a replacement for the presentation.

Okay, so you've given, how many talks do you think you've given in your lifetime so far?

I mean, in person, you know, live in person, you know, over a thousand presentations and a thousand talks and, you know, you throw in virtual and it also, I think we're kind of in a day and age where kind of, you know, everyone's definition of what a presentation is looks different. You know, right now, is this a presentation or webinars or podcast interviews or Facebook lives or anything like that versus, you know, what we typically standardly think of a presentation of? You know, it's hired to do a keynote or a workshop and break out in front of this audience. And so, yeah, but at this point, a lot of times, for sure.

The reason I'm asking you that is because I'm curious what percentage of the time when you show up to do a speaking event, let's say live, is there a tech glitch? Something doesn't work? The computer, the something doesn't work. How often does that happen?

I mean, not often, but it happens for sure. You know, and I think that, that, you know, those type of moments. I'll give you a couple thoughts. One, one is like, those moments helped you to become A better speaker because something happened outside the norm, and so you got to be able to roll with it. So, for example, I'd rarely use slides, and so that was one less variable that I could control. That wasn't going to be an issue. But there were times, especially when I was doing a lot of speaking in high schools, where it's not like a high school has a great up or sound system or anything like that. So it wasn't uncommon for a mic to fail or to be staticky or something like that. And there are times, I remember one time I was in a gymnasium with over a thousand students, and the mic just goes down, and you're kind of looking for some help with some backup batteries or a new mic or something, and no one's really doing anything and just kind of like, screw it and you put the mic down. You just got to kind of yell and project and make it work. And, like, the show must go on. I'd also say, like, when those moments happen that are outside the norm, I think that a speaker can really utilize that and lean into that because, you know, it's like the idea that everyone loves an inside joke and one of those things where you. You had to be there, you know, and so when something happens that is clearly not scripted and not supposed to happen, it creates this moment that we can all laugh about, you know. So, for example, I remember a few years ago speaking at, like, a conference center, and a dog comes running in, and the dog is just zipping around the room, you know, well, obviously that's not planned. It's not my dog. I don't know whose dog that it was or how it got into the building, but it creates this, like, raw, real moment of, like, ah, you know, you had to be there. We can all laugh about it and joke about it, and then, you know, you move on. So I think as a speaker, when those moments happen, it's a good chance to build this rapport with the audience, but it's also a chance to make some humor. And I also just realized, like, okay, this happened outside of my control. How do I address it, do whatever with it and, you know, move on and continue in the presentation.

You know, I agree with you because every time it seemed like for a while there, every single event that I spoke at had different setups, different attachment, different. Everything was different. There was no standardization of anything. So half the time it would work, half the time it wouldn't work With a Mac. Sometimes I'm putting it on a thumb drive and we got to Stick it into their computers, and then I could, you know, the screens would go out or something would happen. But I think that was a good. Ended up being something good because now when it happens, I almost expect it to happen. And when it does, so what? Not a big deal, I'd say on.

It is I think that speaks to just how important it is to do some type of test run with the AV team. And so one of the things I would always do is always ask for, even if I wasn't using any slides, I'd always make sure if I get some type of tech run through so I could get a sense of, like, what's the lighting going to be like, you know, and where's the audience going to be? And if there's going to be cameras, where are those cameras going to be? And which microphone? Or am I going to be using a hand handheld? Is it going to have a wire to it or a cord to it? Am I going to use a lapel that sits on my shirt, or am I going to use more of a countryman that fits over my ear? All these different, like, nuances and variables. And so you want to be prepared for all those things. If I'm using slides, I want to plug in, you know, my computer and I want to hook it up, and I want to see those slides on the screen and I want to see if the orientation is correct or if something looks, you know, skewed in any way that I want to make sure we get that fixed now. And so you're not trying to, like, scramble and adjust those things on the fly. But, like, no, I've shown up. I've prepared make sure all the variables are correct and where they need to be. And I guess it's part of just being a professional as part of, like, doing a good job is not just what you do on stage, but it's also like, how you are to work with off stage. You know, were you on time? Were you nice to the tech crew? Did you make sure that you had your ducks in a row and that your slides look good and like, all of those things, those little nuanced things add to and contribute to you as an overall presenter and whether or not people want to work with you.

So are you saying that being a professional speaker is more than just taking a couple shots at tequila and running up on stage and talking a thousand percent?

Yeah, you know, it's kind of like the part of being a great speaker is what happens on stage, but a big part of it is what happens offstage and so you think about it from like an event planner's perspective is the speaker at an event is an important part of the event, but it's one of a hundred, if not a thousand moving pieces that they are trying to handle and think through and be prepared for. So really, the easier you can be to work with, the simpler that you can make things on them, the better you can make their life. The less of a pain in the butt you are, the more likely they're to want to be, to want to work with you, to refer you, to recommend you, to bring you back. Like. And again, this isn't exclusive to just speakers. This is any type of vendor. You know, if you were hiring someone to mow your grass, and like, they're, boy, they make the grass look amazing, but they don't show up on time, they charge you weird, or they don't do what they said they're going to do, they reschedule on you. They're just kind of a pain in the butt. Not like a diva or a prima donna or anything. They're just like, they're dropping the ball on simple things. And so do what you say you're going to do. If you can't do what you say you're going to do, communicate over. Communicate to the event planner. You do those things and you're just average on stage. You can be really, really successful as a speaker. I love it.

Okay, I know you got a hard stop coming up here, so last question. What's the best piece of advice that you've ever gotten or the best piece of advice that you've ever given?

Yeah, the thing that I tell our team regularly is something I used to speak about was who you are is more important than what you do. Who you are is more important than what you do. Meaning, Gary, if we're great speakers, if we're great authors, if we're great entrepreneurs, if we're great business owners or coaches or consultants, but we dropped the ball as husbands, as dads, as moms, as wives, as if we are the shell of a human being, then we've really missed the point. And so, I mean, I love talking about speaking. I love being an entrepreneur, I love being a business owner, I love making a little dent in the world. But my most important roles on this planet are being a good husband and being a good dad. I've got married to my high school sweetheart. We've got three beautiful daughters. So it's me and a house full of women. It's the absolute best. And so those Four ladies are the most important responsibility in my world. And so I love all this other, like, business nonsense we get to play around with and this sandbox we get to play in. But those things are really the important thing. So I just try to remind people and keep it top of mind that who you are is more important than what you do.

I love that. So if there are people that are listening today and they want to connect with you, they want to learn to be better speakers, get into the speaking game, what's the best way for them to connect with you?

Yeah, if you're listening to this podcast, you probably listen to other podcasts. I'd encourage you to check out ours. It's called the Speaker Lab Podcast. The Speaker Lab Podcast, we've got an nearly 400 episodes there. All different subjects, topics related to anything and everything about speaking. So that's definitely a great resource. And then everything else we do is over@thespeakerlab.com, thespeakerlab.com we've got a lot of free resources over there, articles, and we have a speaking fee calculator there. So when people ask, like, hey, how much should I charge as a speaker? The answer is, it depends. There's a lot of variables that go into it. So we put together a calculator. It's totally free. Answer a couple questions, it'll spit out a number of what you should be charging. So that's also over there. You can also find that directly over at myspeakerfee.com, myspeakerfee.com. again, that's totally free. So, yeah, we try to do anything that we can to support speakers as they build and grow their business.

Awesome. Grant, thank you so much for being here. I appreciate your time and I look forward to staying in touch as we kind of go along our paths.

Gary, thanks for the time, man. I really appreciate it.

Thank you so much for listening to today's podcast with Grant Baldwin. And if you have not yet discovered your why, then go to why institute.com you can use the code podcast for 50 to discover your why at half price. If you love the beyond your why podcast, please don't forget to subscribe below and leave us a review and rating on whatever platform you're using to listen to our podcast. Thank you so much for being here and I will see you next week.

I really hope you enjoyed today's episode and that through today's guest, you heard how important it is to know your why and how impactful it can be. In your life and the lives of those around you. Be sure to head over to whyinstitute.com and discover your why today. Remember, the more you know about yourself, the more you'll know about others. I'm Dr. Gary Sanchez, and I'll see you on the next episode.