EP 127 WTH?!? The Doctor's Chat: All for One, One for All

Hello, everyone. This is Dr. Jonathan Nadal and Dr. Janelle Ludinia. And we are here yet again for the what the Health Doctors chat. It is Dr. Ludinia myself to cover just some extra topics that maybe we've briefly mentioned before. But we want to give you guys a lot more detailed information on some of the services that we provide here, covering a pretty wide range of things from food sensitivity testing to some cranial sacral therapy and several others. So thanks for being here and as always, if you have any questions, comments, or ideas, feel free to share with us. Okay, so, Dr. Ladinia, so let's get into it as far as food intolerance evaluations. Yeah. What do you think about it?

Well, I think it's great.

It is, it is. And it's useful to our patients because.

Yes, because in the gut, that's where a lot of symptoms, disease, inflammation, all that starts, right?

Yeah.

And the one thing we do every day is eat multiple times a day. You. And so if we're eating foods that aren't agreeing with our body, then that is ultimately causing disruption inside of us.

Yeah, it's true. And it's not just stress. Right. Like, so much our immune system is, is kind of related to the gut and everything that interacts, you know, everything that we interact with the environment with and through food, it's like that's that first point of contact. Right. And so, you know, it's not just a full on, like, allergy. Right. Like if someone eats, you know, peanut butter or something like that, they have an alpha lactic reaction, it's several steps before it's a full blown allergy. There is some inflammatory or kind of a sensitive process that could be happening with certain foods for people.

Right, right.

And that's what some of these evaluations, that's where they come into play.

Yeah, yeah. You kind of have a bunch of the different tests that look at actual allergies. And like you were talking about the anaphylactic allergy, you know, someone usually typically knows through experience of eating the food that they have a strong allergy to it. But there can be less sensitive allergies that people develop too. So there's tests that, that look at that and then there's sensitivities where maybe, you know, it's not causing that big histamine reaction like the allergy test does or the allergy foods would. So a sensitivity is just kind of impacting your gut in a different way, leading to maybe some digestive symptoms or different inflammation inside of your body. Yeah, that Stuff. And then there's also a different test that looks at, at what foods your body is intolerant to or it doesn't have kind of the enzymes to digest that particular food.

Okay, is that more like the, the food intolerance evaluation?

Yes, yes. So that's that test and how that works is, you know, all of our bodies are made up differently. And so if you don't have, you know, particular enzymes or what it may be for your intestines to fully digest that particular food that you're eating, is the bacteria come to digest the food and help kind of separate out the nutrients for your body to assimilate it. But as the bacteria are eating it because it can't be digested, the bacteria then kind of release some byproducts, and it's those byproducts that can cause the inflammation or, you know, the quote unquote toxins to float around the body.

Okay. Wow. Yeah, that's good. I don't know if it's been explained that way. That's, that's really easy to understand and also kind of alarming. Right. That just as we can't break down certain food, guess what the bacteria is going to come in and other microbes, whether it's fungi, viruses, and there's other ways of testing that too. But what's, what's fun and easy is that. So the, the food intolerance evaluation, is it with stool, saliva? What is it?

Nope, it's just a small blood sample.

Okay. Like a tube or just a drop?

Just a drop.

Okay.

Yep, a couple drops.

Okay, that's, that's easy enough. So it's not even a full blood draw.

It's just like a little prick. Just a prick.

Okay. And what's nice is that, I mean, we've talked about potentially even doing this with patients remotely if they send the sample, right?

Yeah.

Okay.

Absolutely.

Great. And from there, do we get like a full, like, printout of, of different food sensitivities? Like, like, what does that look like?

Yeah, we get a full report of what, what foods you may be intolerant to. And then sometimes there's also combination foods, which we don't typically think about either when we're eating. Right. Maybe your body can, can digest potatoes just fine and maybe it can digest grain just fine, but when you eat them together, your body has a, has a difficult time digesting it, so it can give us some information like that as well. And then, yeah, if you get a printout, they kind of goes through all the foods and then that's kind of where we come in to help customize nutrition. Exactly.

Okay.

Yeah.

And so would you say how you categorize them, would there be, like, primary intolerances and then, you know, possible secondary or, like, combination intolerances?

Exactly.

Okay.

Yeah.

All right. And then with the primary intolerances, is it the kind of thing that you should just avoid for as long as forever, or is it like three to six months?

It's typically forever.

Okay.

Yeah. The. Yeah.

Okay.

It doesn't really change throughout. Throughout your lifespan.

Yeah. It's just something your immune system is always sensitive to.

Yeah.

All right.

Well, because you have to think of it more in the digestive track and that you don't actually have the enzymes to. Or the tools will say to digest that particular food.

Okay.

So, you know, that's going to kind of stay with you forever. It's not something really that you're going to one day develop.

Okay.

Kind of those tools to digest it.

If you. If you take specific digestive enzymes, get it out along the way, I mean.

It can help ease some symptoms, depending what it is. But then, yeah, of course, you know, you still have to kind of look at it in terms of what are you feeling your body with. And so if you are feeling it with something that, you know, you can't fully digest, maybe take a look like, okay, we're out with friends or at a celebration. Let's indulge.

Yeah.

On a day today, let's give our body a little.

That's fair.

Break and be kind.

There's some wisdom there. Being kind to our bodies. Right.

Yeah.

And then with the. With the combination or secondary intolerances, that's how long, you know, let's say we stick to the potato and grains example, or even, like, fruit and. And sugar. I know there's a bunch of combinations, but if you eat one food, how long should you wait before eating the other food?

That we find out within the test, too.

Okay.

Yeah.

Okay.

Because it can vary for different people. Kind of looking at liver health and how your liver clears. Okay. Things. And. And a couple different factors play into that. Yeah.

I mean, is it usually, like, wait a day, four hours, six hours?

Yeah. Usually between four to eight hours.

Okay.

Somewhere. Somewhere within there.

All right. That's probably doable.

Yeah.

Yeah. But the key thing, you know, we always say, like, testing instead of guessing. Right. Like, first actually figuring out what your body's sensitive to and what maybe you don't have enough enzymatic support to get through. And then you take it from there and Customize, you know, a nutrition program. And we know that we have Alps. There's so much. It's a lot easier to get whatever specific dietary needs today than it was even 10, 20 years ago. Right?

Absolutely.

Yeah. Okay. And then. So then that sounds amazing, and I feel like almost everyone should just do it to figure out what we're sensitive to. But, you know, if you want to get even more nuanced in a different way, because that one's pretty nuanced. But, you know, there's other things, like, you know, we run something called the GI maps pretty often, and that's not so much food sensitivities, but that's giving us a clue as to what bacteria levels, viruses, fungi, even different intestinal markers are going on in your stool, essentially in your gut, and that one is a stool sample. But it is very useful and rather in depth, and it does give us a read on some of the intestinal markers that can suggest if there's different sensitivities to gluten and whatnot. So that one is really important to do, I think, if we're getting it going for a deep dive with the gut. Right.

Yep.

And then more along the lines of, like, food sensitivities, there is the alcat, which used for years.

Yeah.

And now is more of a. It's a greater quantity of blood, just a few tubes. But that one, in a similar way, gives us a read of several pages where it'll break down like a severe reaction to these foods. And that's, at least in that test, you want to avoid it for at least six months.

Right.

And then there's the moderate, and then there's the mild, and then, so the moderate, you may be avoided for about three months. And then the mild is ones that you want to avoid or introduce no more than once every four days. And then, of course, the ones that you're not sensitive to at all, you can eat all day, every day. However, after running a lot of these different tests, we realized that the body really does like variety. And, you know, if someone's eaten a lot of, you know, two specific foods, like, every day for the last few years, chances are there's somewhat of a sensitivity that's revealed in some of these tests. So giving your body the right nutrition and the right variety of nutrition from different food sources is always going to be a key thing to keep in mind. Then there's also the US Biotech, which is also kind of more. Not so much several vials of blood, but this one's more just a Couple of drops. And it's a similar enough read to the. To the ALCAT test, which is basically giving us a read on what's more moderate, severe, or just a mild reaction. Just the format and layout and recommendations a little bit different. But what's nice is that, you know, if you're in office or you're somewhere that they could do an elaborate blood draw for something like the alcat, great. But if not, you know, things like the food intolerance evaluation or the US Biotech, these things could be done remotely and it's just sent into the labs or to us in order to get the results and actually go through and come up with a customized diet or nutritional plan that can meet your needs and reduce the overall inflammation and the burden that may be happening that might not go notice, because even back when some people were still doing like the elimination diet, which is still great, and we still do it with some patients. But if you eat a certain food and you don't have symptoms that day, that's great. But it doesn't mean that you may not have symptoms three or four days later, whether it's a random joint ache or a slight migraine or some fatigue, because. Yeah, because by the time the food is broken down and all the different metabolites and things happen and maybe your immune system catches up with dealing with whatever's left, it can be not just the same day, it can linger for a day or two after. And that's why it's hard to pinpoint exactly what foods could be causing what symptoms. And that's where some of these food sensitivity tests can come into play to help clarify that more for us. Okay.

And the thing with the sensitivity tests, and correct me if I'm wrong, but these can change over time, right? Kind of depending on, like your internal terrain and working on your gut lining and all of that. Then is it true that our sensitivities to different foods can change or.

I think so. You know, unless it's like really severe. You know, it's been around since childhood or something. I mean, I think it's possible always, but maybe just being optimistic. But I do think it's possible to change most sensitivities unless there's a pretty severe reaction. Yeah. Especially if we're kind of restructuring the gut, supporting the lining, the gap junctions, and making sure all the whole enzymatic machinery is set up right. I do think it's possible to address most of these or at least give support. Yeah, yeah, totally. Okay. Anything else around food sensitivities I feel like there's always more, but. Yeah, those are some of the main things we do here and we find really useful for our patients.

Yeah. And it's great because it's. It's, you know, one of the places that we love to start. It's one of the places that, you know, no matter what, everyone can work on it. Right.

Yeah.

So. And it's one of the most important things because we eat all day, every day. Every day. And that's literally what our body runs off of, is what we're feeding it. So.

Totally. It's true.

Optimize it as much as we can.

Yes. Yeah. Whether it's brain health, immune reactions, gut health, heart health, heart health. I mean, even. Even joint health. Right. Like, we know that there's been some patients with food sensitivities, where we address them and they stop eating it after decades of eating whatever said food. And their joints don't hurt as much.

Yeah.

You know, it's not the case with everybody, but it happens often enough where it's like, well, wow, that. That's what that was. Yeah.

And there's some type of reaction happening within the body that the body doesn't appreciate, so it's going to cause inflammation. It. In some sort of way. And for some people, it goes into their joints. Right. For other people, it goes to their brain. For other people, you know, there's a whole array of.

Yeah.

Of different things, but. Yeah.

Wow. Okay. So the gut. Yeah. It's huge. It's important. Even if you don't have any gastrointestinal symptoms, anything else that's going on, it's worth at least chatting with us and seeing if it might be a good idea. It probably is. So moving away from the gut, though. Let's see. No, no. Why would we. No, it's trusting your instincts. I mean. Yeah.

Yeah.

Even by choosing the right foods, your instincts are going to be better.

That's right.

So let's see. What about. So I know that you did some certification training with. With, like, the Bredesen protocols. Right. Do you want to tell us a little bit about that?

Sure. Yeah. For those who aren't familiar with the Bredesen protocol, that takes a look at reversing and dealing with dementia and Alzheimer's. And so Dr. Dale Bredesen kind of set up a entire program that he did a lot of research with and kind of came up with a structured. More of a structured plan, I guess you could say.

Yeah.

On, you know, kind of different testing mechanisms and then different treatment laying out the treatment plans and the foundations for health. Healthy brains and helping to reverse some of that cognitive. Cognitive decline.

Awesome. It's been interesting over the years watching a lot of these different practitioners or researchers kind of streamline some of these protocols and. And just being in our own realm of care and establishing our protocols with different functional medicine labs and what nutrition, you know, what food is best. And it's great to see, like, simultaneous discoveries and, like, a lot of approaches run very parallel with each other.

Right, Absolutely.

Yeah.

Yeah. And it's also fun to see that kind of the realization that it's not just one thing. Like, one thing isn't, you know, causing or contributing to dementia or Alzheimer's, just, like, the same thing with Parkinson's or really all the conditions we see here. There's typically not just one power player, so to say that's causing it. Right. It's really multifactorial, which goes into, like, establishing and creating that lifestyle.

Absolutely. Well said. Yeah, yeah. It's often more than one thing. Yeah, yeah. There's underlying causes.

Yeah, yeah.

Okay. Excellent. And then, I mean, did you find that in doing some of the training for the Bredesen and things like it. Did you find that. That there was enough actionable items and, like, as far as the guidance and how to, like, implement it with your patients, you found it useful?

M. Yeah, absolutely.

Okay. And it was easy enough for your patients to work through some of the protocols and stick to.

Yeah. And, you know, with that, it's kind of depends on the contributing factors for each person. Right. What are you working on? And then kind of everyone's different level of support, everyone's different level of engagement. And so really kind of working with. With everyone where they're at, and then setting up some type of plan and structure, and that's the fun part.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

Everybody's a little different.

Yeah, yeah.

Cool. And then speaking about individual differences. So when it comes to more therapeutic methods, modalities, and different styles of treatments, maybe some of us know that you practice cranial sacral therapy. Right.

Yeah, I love it.

So.

So big part of my practice.

Awesome. So tell us about it. What is it?

Okay, where do I start?

With the head?

With the head with the gut. No, I'm just kidding. The head here will start. Yeah, yeah. So cranial sacral is. It's a really gentle modality, you know, because we deal a lot with brain stuff here. I like to say that it's like a deep. A deep massage for your brain, and your brain never gets massaged. Right. It's in your skull, and you can't get there. Your muscles can, but your brain. We can't get to your brain. So it is. It's like a massage for your brain just via the cerebral spinal fluid. Awesome. Yeah. Yeah. And so it's really gentle. It helps kind of with the. The lymph flow, the cerebral spinal flow, the blood flow, and then it's also impacting the connective tissue and kind of all the, you know, nerves. And our skull kind of has all the different holes, the little foramen, where the nerves and the vessels come out of. And so it. It really just helps. Helps the flow. It's very good for our parasympathetic nervous system, which is kind of our rest. Relax.

Yeah.

System.

Absolutely.

There's multiple benefits to it.

Yeah, no, that's great. I think we could all benefit from it because there's. I mean, so I do, you know, I have working patients as both of us, with naturopathic medicine, but then with the whole acupuncture, I mean, there's. There's a lot of that, too. Right. Like, kind of just balancing the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous system. You know, essentially the fight or flight, arrest and digest. It's like we. We live in this society right now and have, I think, for too long in this constant fight or flight mode, you know, and. And it's. It's kind of addicted to that more quick, fast vibration, you know, checking your phone traffic, going. Next thing, meeting this, this and that.

Absolute.

So what do we do to relax? I mean, exercise, mind, body, practices meditation. But I mean, even if there's a greater incentive to actually come in and pay someone to guide you in that journey, that helps a lot too. Yeah. And so greater. Greater flow of blood and cerebral spinal fluid both throughout the connective tissue and in the brain. Phenomenal. And then one would think that if. Especially if anyone's trying to go through any type of detox protocol or any kind of working on brain fog or cognitive enhancement or even just to get an edge with dealing with stress and improving overall cognitive function. I mean, is it fair to say that most of those things could definitely fall into being beneficial with craniosacral therapy? Yeah. Awesome. And usually how long is a treatment?

Between 30 minutes to an hour. Yeah. So we'll say roughly 45 minutes.

Okay.

Yeah.

And what do you find at the end of treatment, like, when you're done with a session or a couple of sessions with the patient, what do you find?

First and foremost, they're very relaxed yeah. You know, and so kind of immediately after the session, they're tired maybe, or they feel, you know, rejuvenated, but they're just in that very relaxed state and then coming back and checking in with them. Usually improved sleep is a big one that I hear. You know, then following the night of. And then kind of consistently after a couple nights, sometimes decreased pain, depending where the pain was located, especially if it was in the head. A headache and then neck pain is another big one that gets relieved. And also sacral and hip pain, because it's all. Our spine's all connected way up here, all the way down. So that's another nice benefit. Yeah.

Great. Yeah, I think mine's still connected. Yeah.

Just like.

Yeah. Well, that's awesome. So, I mean, you said things like brain fog, headache, stress. I mean, I feel like if you walk down the street, it's probably 90% of people experiencing something like this. So. Yeah. Great. Any other. I mean, there's a lot. But anything else that you can think of for cranial psychotherapy? When did it start and where?

I mean, great question.

Okay. Yeah. Okay.

I should know the answer to this.

No, it's okay. It's okay. I mean, it's probably the type of thing, even like some of the naturopathic approaches we have, like hydrotherapy or different botanical medicine. It's like, exactly where did it start? Yeah, well, it's kind of a. A combination of. Of different cultures and countries and different time periods that, you know, blend of oral traditions and then. And then healers that came together and documented these things. I mean.

Yeah, I do know that it did start in osteopathic medicine. It was one of their foundational approaches. I can see that help. Yeah. The time frame. I'm not sure on that one.

That's okay. Yeah, it came down through space and time, and it is something that you do.

Yeah, yeah.

Incredibly well. All right. That's fun. Well, yeah, There you have it. There's another few things that. That we offer at. Here at Nature Cures Clinic over in Portland, Oregon. So different protocols on nutrition, gastrointestinal evaluations or food intolerance evaluations, you know, from food, nutrition, your brain, rest, health, longevity, you name it.

Exercise.

Exercise. Yeah. And nutrition. All the foundations. And sleep. Yeah, yeah. Because we can do all these things and get as fancy as we want, but those foundational pillars of health have to be set right. Yeah, good.

And developing a plan for it and kind of our routine. You know, our bodies love routine, and if we can help facilitate that and guide that and then give that structure to our body. Yeah, it really flourishes. Or it can flourish.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we are here to help. Always excited and passionate about all the things that we have to offer here at Nature Cures Clinic. Be on the lookout. There's always going to be some more fun and interesting podcasts and things being released. There is kind of coming down the quantum field. There is the bioenergetic summit that will be happening very soon. So stay tuned for that. And then for those of you who finished a recent detox, we did a fall brain liver detox. I'm hoping that went well for everybody. Again, any questions or comments, feel free to let us know. And beyond that, yeah, we look forward to seeing you guys again soon. Once Again, this is Dr. Nadell and Dr. Ladinia. Until next time, on with the health. Take care.