EP 155 WTH?!? The Doctor's Chat: The Gut-Brain Connection with Natasha Trenev

Foreign hey there everybody. Welcome back. I am Dr. Greg Eckel and this is what the health and today's topic we are talking gut health and overall health with really an industry creator, Natasha Treneva and her company Natren, which she started with her husband Jordan, they developed a probiotic blend which they brought over to the Americas. So I'm really excited to talk through that. As a result of their rich history and innovation in the industry, Natrend is simply elevated above the rest. And it basically is coming from a heritage of 750 years ago in northern region of Macedonia. It sounds incredibly fascinating and Natasha, welcome to the show.

Thank you so much. And actually it goes in my father's family who's Macedonian and he was the official court supplier to the King of Yugoslavia. And my grandfather was the one of the largest exporters of feta cheese and yogurt during World War I and way before World War II. So the history from that region is rich. And I sort of got incorporated into the family business because my family needed someone that was educated and spoke English well to really introduce people to a Bulgarian style yogurt and the liquid acidophilus. And neither category was understood by the American public. So it was a big challenge. And so I learned from the first cycle the fermentation of these foods with this bacteria is more than an art. It is a very comprehensive science. It's an in depth understanding and something that was passed on from generation to generation and what they've learned and how to control this fermentation cycle to develop not only a great tasting food, but a very healthy food. And because of my work with the family business, I decided to do research and was elected by several universities to represent their findings on these probiotic bacteria before they were even called probiotics. And come to learn that, you know, universities are great at testing things in laboratories but they can't convert them into finished product. In other words, it's what's called scale up. It's like you can make a great cake in your kitchen but try to make a hundred of them.

Totally, totally. Well, that's awesome that you've brought that expertise into this field and really did a lot of the education in North America around probiotics. And the, you know, topic of the day is gut health. And my readers, listeners, viewers are, are well informed on the gut as the second brain. You might say the gut is the first brain. Here we shall see. You know, I think let's talk about immune system function around the bowel and around the gut and what do they have anything to do with each other?

Okay, well, you're right. I've got about 10,000 research articles, I've written three books, I've taught CME courses to medical doctors, naturopathic doctors, chiropractors. So I'm a teacher and an educator as well as a scientist. I'm a developmental scientist. So what I've learned about the gut after maybe four decades of intense research is at number one, it's a 27 foot tube starting from the mouth and ending at the other end. Inside that tube we have 100 trillion microbes. And that those hundred trillion microbes surround immune cells that are parked on our intestinal wall and are the first line of defense of anything trying to enter our body, aside from nutrition, that may pose a harm to the health of our organs or, or our overall health and possibly death. So that's a very easy to understand concept that our mouth allows things from the outside world inside of our body. Okay. The purpose of the stomach acid is not only to digest protein, but to kill bacteria which are protein. Okay. So it's a brilliant system if we don't abuse it. Number two, when that digested first mass is dumped into the small intestine, the second complete digestive process takes place where the carbohydrates are digested and bile is introduced to emulsify oils. Now during this process there is a lot of what we call second grade bacteria that enter through the food or whatever we're putting through our mouth. And that's where you know, you have to have your defenders, which are your pristine natural probiotics that have evolved with Homo sapiens and can only do good and not harm. And I'll come to a better explanation later. So they actually have developed a system of communication with the immune cells because the immune cells will react to anything that's not digested to the right micron size. And anything that tries to pass the intestinal wall that doesn't meet the immune cells perception that it's a safe item to pass through the intestinal wall. And that is the source of all of your autoimmune disease, your food allergies, and any other health conditions that you may have in your body that we give names to. It's as simple as that. If that beautiful ecosystem is not kept in check every day, then we're going to have problems like we do now. Spending $4.3 trillion on healthcare and 80% on chronic disease.

How does one protect their gut? I couldn't agree more. As I shared before coming on the air. As a Chinese medicine practitioner, I come from the spleen and stomach camp of. And as a naturopathic physician, it all starts in the gut. So that, that is such a massive statement that you summarize the ills of health care in like two sentences, really briefly. How, how does it come out of balance and what are the, some of the things that we could do to help protect that?

Well, first of all, you know, stress. Stress. You know, we'll talk first about our exterior stimuli with such a stress. Now remember, stress, especially unresolved stress, destroys the immune system in the body. And how does it do that? Because it forces the body to put all of its resources to our extremities, including blood flow. So blood flow doesn't help your digestion, does not help your immune system. It's all there because your body is prepared for fighting or flight. If that condition persists, it's a breakdown of your digestive tract and your immune system. It's as simple as that. And then it, it causes further depression, anxiety, all kinds of things that were given pharmaceutical drugs to try to control, when in essence, you know, your perception of reality can be controlled by you, by changing your thinking, getting into meditation. And first of all, stop eating processed foods. And even some health foods are processed. Stop eating foods loaded with carbohydrates and sugar because they are in incentivizing bad bacteria and yeast to grow in the system and cause further problems because it becomes like a catch 22 situation. Your thoughts create chemicals that destroy the beneficial bacteria. In essence, those beneficial bacteria produce dopamine and serotonin, which are your feel good neurotransmitters that get carried up your vagus nerve to your first brain. And it becomes a vicious cycle. Your thoughts are creating these bad chemicals that are reducing the production of the good chemicals we need. And the whole system is out of balance. That's why I want to create for everyone what we need to do to get the system back into balance. And my simple formulation is get on a good, you know, low carbohydrate diet. And I stop eating a lot of raw foods instead. Except salad that has your traditional salad items like lettuce, cucumbers, tomatoes, onions, and that's about it. We eat too many raw things because our bodies have changed and we no longer have the enzymatic composition to break those foods down and it becomes a problem. And I'm saying this is for this day and age. We give this generalized recommendation and it's no longer effective for what's going on in our mind and our body. And what I tell people is that we've also, in the west, become so harried that we golf down food while we're looking at our, you know, electronic devices. And food is meant to be enjoyed, chewed with somebody that you enjoy having lunch with and that you stop watching and listening to other things so that your body can concentrate on breaking down the food and nourishing every bit of your body. That's really what's going on. And as I tell people, I don't make the rules, I'm just here to tell you what's going on. You know, I mean, and the destruction of this beneficial microbiota and the tons, literally tons of worthless product out there that call themselves probiotics is not helping. Because day in and day out I hear, wow, I've tried probiotics and I didn't feel any better. That's because we have to be educated in the industry and understand how to choose the right product. And it's not just about competition. It's about understanding that these bacteria are smarter than we are. They're single celled brains. Their objective is to multiply themselves. And they're not going to multiply themselves unless you provide the environment for them to thrive. It's as easy as that. And if you stress them, abuse them, no way are they going to be able to survive and serve you. And by the way, all of the fermented foods, nobody's observing any standard. And how do I know? Because I did set the standard for yogurt in California in 1969 while I was still a student at UCLA. I introduced kefir through Altadena Dairy by studying extensively in the former Soviet Union the composition of kefir, which region it was sold in, what were the starter ingredients of kefir to make a real kefir product for the American public. And then later was invited by the state of New York to help set the standards for a kefir product in New York. Sadly, nobody's observing any guidelines or standards. And so it's really consumer beware. And we're told so many illogical and unfounded facts that we are confused. And I said, if we were getting the right information and did the right thing, would we have 80% of our public chronically ill?

No, we would not. I. I'll answer that one. The now, you touched on this as some of the dopamine and serotonin made from beneficial gut bacteria, talking about the combination of the gut as the second brain, in particular with mental health you know, we're seeing anxiety, depression, traumas. Basically the elephant in the living room that everybody is now finally talking about. What is the combination? What's your research showing around poor gut health and mental health?

Oh, the connection is concise and very real. Depression is you're not making enough of the feelgood neurotransmitters. It's not only serotonin and dopamine. You also have to be able to make precursors to gaba, tryptophan, other, you know, what I call feel good. Chemicals that make you feel good. And your perception of the world needs to change. That's why I say I have a very simple formula for getting better is that it's diet, it's exercise, it's precision probiotic supplementation and meditation. At least 10 minutes twice a day, preferably half an hour. Change your perception of the world. Get happy. Be thankful for whatever you have. Change your attitude. Make friends. We have a recession of friends in this country. People are no longer talking to each other. They're not physically present with each other. That makes a huge difference. And I've studied healthy cultures all my life and I can tell you one of the most important things is for people to have friendships and to be able to talk to people. Not text, not communicate with the silly stuff. Sit down and actually talk to another human being and you're going to stop being depressed. Do those things. Eat the foods that nourish your body. Take the products. Unfortunately, as I say, I don't make the rules. But like I said, 99% of the products out there are worthless. They don't really provide you with the things they're giving you. One bacteria, sometimes beneficial, sometimes not, that may be interfering with other bacteria that are necessary to thrive in other regions of your GI tract. People are just throwing stuff in to treat symptoms and that's why we're not really getting better. Even though we've had 70 plus years of health food concepts and I've told my colleagues, all of them in alternative medicine, we're not doing a good job because we're partly responsible for 80% of that chronic disease. Whatever information is getting out is not getting the public better. And we have to take responsibility and we have to change as well and help other people to change so we can reverse this. Because frankly, not only is our country bankrupt, our healthcare system is bankrupt.

Yeah, you know this. You've really touched on the topic of the day. I think you know, and why I have this platform of what the health is. This information is known. It's just not getting out there. Right. I just talked to a gentleman today, had a program that in the New York healthcare system was reversing diabetes in 80% of the people that went through it. The hospital system lawyers threw him out at behest of a doctor who was a bariatric surgeon because, because they were reversing diabetes and they were no longer having the surgical, as many surgical candidates. And I just thought like this is what is wrong and why we're out to create the new system. Kind of like Buckminster Fuller, we create the new system, so then the old one becomes irrelevant. And so on that front, and it is buyer beware. How does somebody tell what is a good probiotic versus not?

Well, as the author of two probiotic labeling standards, as I said, and my second standard was read into Congressional Record in 1995, first of all, you have to know who the formulator of the product is. Virtually all of those people that sell these products, they're not the formulator. They read some research, they like the way some research states of what a bacteria does. And they just point, you know, on a page and tell the contract manufacturer, well gee, I'd like to have that bacteria in. And then the contract manufacturer will tell them, oh well, what else do you like? And you know, I laugh because bacteria certainly are not going to behave because we throw them together. So you know, their natural state is mutual antagonism, by the way. And if you put all these varieties of bacteria in a single capsule, it's a close ended system. No food is coming in and no waste is coming out and they are in a state of arrested growth. Especially if they're not refrigerated, they will be growing more vigorously and then they start dying off and then they start attacking each other because now it becomes the survival of the fittest because you have that closed ended system. This is what people don't understand. So what I have done is I have chosen only probiotic bacteria that have been in the literature for well over a hundred years that I know are safe at any level and then make them in a way not that's the most economically efficient, but what provides the best byproducts of that fermentation product and a healthy bacteria that can start repopulating the GI tract and choosing the bacteria that likes to live in the small intestine, that likes to live in the large intestine, that likes to be part of the transient flora, so that I choose what they want, not what we want. And in that fashion they're healthy and they deliver results. And I also am the only one in the world who's developed a delivery system with oil and put three bacteria in that oil matrix in a two piece hard gel capsule because it reduces the water activity or the moisture which will wake up the bacteria. And this will survive stomach acid as low as 1.8 ph for well over an hour. So you have to look at the science. Grow the bacteria with what they like to be grown in, stabilize them, take care of them, make sure that they're kept at cold temperatures all the way. Because no matter what anybody tells you, this business of shelf stability doesn't exist. It's only a temperature that's found in the laboratory under controlled conditions. People don't understand that when it's 80 degrees outside, it's 120 degrees in a UPS truck, you know, in 20 minutes. And those are stats from the AAA, not the alcoholic association, the American Automobile Association. Yeah, so, so these are just simple things that I think people are not aware of. That bacteria don't perform because somebody has a marketing idea or because they want to make it convenient for you. No, the bacteria have to be handled in a special way in order for them to give you results and that they're safe at any level that you wish to intake and never under any conditions do any, any harm to your body.

That is awesome. You know, I think a lot of folks do not understand that. And I was going to ask you specifically what did, what your thoughts are on now know you see a lot the trend in research is oh this, this certain strain for X condition, this certain strain for Y condition. What, what are your thoughts on that?

Well, it's the wrong way to go because it's again mimicking big Pharma because they're trying to treat symptoms. And in trying to treat symptoms they are not balancing or optimizing the 100 trillion microbes in your gut. And they're not giving the body the tools to heal itself. They're controlling a symptom. And I'll give you one perfect example. One of the organisms that's used in so called probiotics for brain health is a Lactobacillus plantarum. I'm very familiar with this organism because it was originally used in wheat silos to suppress the growth of fungus or mold. Okay, same bacteria, just different shape. And that bacteria is great for controlling other bacteria and for controlling mold growth. However, in my laboratory test on multiple occasions, it has been proven that that bacteria will also inhibit Bifidobacteria species which are the most important bacteria for the health of the large intestine, which includes the colon. So now you're treating one symptom but you're doing possible harm to another area of the DI tract that needs to be balanced. You can't do that with a straight face and tell people I'm changing your ecosystem. What we need to do in the alternative health industry is tell people your body is magnificent. It has the tools to heal itself. Give it the tools that it needs and let it do its job. Don't treat symptoms.

Natasha, you're right. The body, your body is magnificent. That is. Thank you for that massive take home wisdom. And I want to emphasize your equation that you gave us as well, which is diet plus exercise plus precision probiotics plus meditation on changing your mind, changing your attitude and making friends. I so, so, so appreciate your wisdom and what you're bringing and I want to help get this word out. Any last parting information you'd like to share here?

No. Well, I'm going to tell you what I did with one of my Texas partners. He always used to say if you always do what you've always done, you're going to get what you always got. And that's a very simple wisdom. If you keep doing the same thing, how do you expect different results? So if whatever you're doing, if you're not feeling great, forget it, you know, stop doing that and change. You know, there's so many multitude of so called gurus but they haven't been in the industry for only a couple of years. They don't have any wisdom of the decades of those of us who have spent decades in this field understanding how the body works, what it needs, you know, stop looking for the quick fix. That's my other last word.

Here, here. Thank you so much. It has been a real pleasure. We're going to put all of your contact info in our show notes and get folks out to, to get the real deal, get the real stuff.

Yeah, and that's why I'm still working. I could have gone eight years ago but I'm just seeing the mass of young people and it breaks my heart that they're chronically ill. Young people in their 20s. It's unbelievable.

It is. We are at a critical juncture and we are creating the new paradigm as we speak. So thank you everybody. This is what the health. If you like this information, please go out and give us a five star review. And in that review put a little tidbit of what your take home. What are you getting into action you can make the difference out there. We are all in it together. We'll see you next time.