EP 16: WTH ?!? 2 most important things for Health with Dr. Meghan Walker

An independent approach to your health span. Have you noticed how our healthcare system may not have your best interest in mind? Join Dr. Eckel in this fun and sometimes disturbing exploration of the state of healthcare and what it means for you. Now, here's your host, Dr. Eckel. All right, welcome back, everybody. This is what the health and I am Dr. Greg Eckel and I've got my esteemed colleague Dr. Megan Walker from Ken, Canada, Toronto, Canada, on the line here. And Dr. Walker is a naturopathic doctor. Amazing being up there in Canada. Serial entrepreneur, mother of three. And as an entrepreneur, she started and sold her first business while in university. I've been trying to get my son into that mindset. She's the co founder, past CEO of digital health media startup Bright Omen. She's also the host of Entrepology, the podcast, and founder of Entrepoli Labs and Badass Basics, which I'm excited to talk to her about. She's also runs a really, I'll say kick ass boutique practice up in Toronto. She's spoken internationally through multiple media outlets and topics related to women's performance, health and entrepreneurship and really on just functionality. So we've got a whole, whole lot of stuff to talk about today. 1. Thanks for coming on, Dr. Walker.

Oh, it's such a pleasure to be here.

Yeah, thanks. You know, you have one of the most interesting things that you put out. You said you've got a primary, single most critical factor in mitigating chronic disease. And I, you know, I, I love that you've got it figured out. You've got the solution for us and how did you arrive? What is it and how did you get there to that as you're saying.

That I was like, oh, where are we going with this? So the thing that I have found in practice and then went back and really found in the literature is that there are certain commonalities to people who recover from chronic disease. And there are certain features of how people are living in their lives where one's risk for chronic disease is significantly reduced. And we hear about it in the context of food and sleep and all the things that everyone's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know all that stuff. And the thing that I found so interesting, I started to observe this in my patients and then we started to collect data around it. And that is this idea that purpose having purpose in one's life is one of the most powerful, not only mitigators in preventing chronic disease, but it's actually one of the most critical elements in reversing chronic Disease as well.

That's awesome. So how, how do you get at that with your, with your patients?

Well, I just kind of go there. I'm one of those people, I'm just going to drop, I just drop things right on the table when they first get in. And so, you know, early on in our conversation, I'll say, you know, I ask a lot of different questions and you're probably used to being asked. And, and one of them I'm really deeply fascinated in is what do you identify as your primary source of purpose? Like what's your thing? And they look at me and they're like, well, I told you already, I came in for my eczema or I came in for my whatever. And I was like, that's great. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about like your purpose, like your thing. And some people are so excited to talk about it and others have this look of panic on their face because they're like, oh, I was worried that's what you meant. And it's all different ages. Like sometimes, you know, I've got like these 18 year old kids who are total go getters. Like, this is my skill set, this is what I'm, this is what I'm focused on. This is how I want to contribute. And they're really clear. And then I have other people, you know, they're in their 50s and they're, we talk about purpose and it is like the most powerful thing they've ever been asked and given permission to explore. And it's like they've opened up this whole new, this new world of possibilities because what it does is it gives you a reason to be well. And it's really fascinating when we start to give people permission to do that and we start to fuel their recovery or we start to fuel their good decision making through the lens of purpose, not out of obligation or willpower. We remove all of those things from the table.

That's awesome. Have you, I mean, when did you arrive at that? I mean, you've really, you've got this boutique practice around entrepreneurs, right? Supporting entrepreneurs. So I mean, has it always, has that always been part of your conversation with your patients or.

It hasn't always been, but then we, we started to, we just started to ask sort of interesting sideways questions for people and we started to see a lot of commonalities amongst our patients who weren't entrepreneurs. And so, you know, they were kind of lost or like their kids moved out and they didn't know what to do with themselves and you know, they had a job, but it wasn't that important to them. And then we had a. We certainly saw that with our entrepreneurs, but overwhelmingly what we saw with that population was that they were engaged and their kids moved out, but they're like, that's okay because it's made room for this. Or, I have a family business. I've always engaged my kids, but my kids aren't my sole thing. Or they're in a relationship where they each bring something to the table, something they're passionate about. It's not always intertwined and codependent. So we started to observe these really interesting psychological traits amongst our entrepreneurs. And then we just started to flat out ask everyone and. And right in our intake forms. And then as part of that initial appointment, we ask people to identify whether they have a source of purpose. And we kept data on this. We have, like, 2,500 patients. We've kept data on. On this.

Oh, that's awesome.

It's really neat. And what we find is that when people identify as having a sense of purpose in life, they come back to our practice less often. We see less incidents of chronic disease, and we see faster recovery with people who are. Who are managing ongoing or chronic conditions and across all boards. And then we went to the literature, and we're like, okay, maybe this is just us. Maybe we're biased and everything else. No, the literature supports it, too. So chronic disease, neurological conditions in particular, we see some evidence of it. With respect to cancer, we see a lot of evidence around cardiovascular disease. It's a really fascinating piece when we're starting to look at all of the factors that go into managing one's health.

Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, we see that in the, you know, research around longevity as well. Right. So huge. What do you. I'm curious, what do you do for folks that really struggle with it or haven't maybe been posed the question? Right, Yeah.

I mean, it is such a privileged position to be in where you are able to pursue your life's purpose. So, like, I get up every day and I'm like, whoa, I get. I get to pursue my purpose. And I was really clear on that. And it evolves. But how fortunate is that? And so I think for a lot of people, it starts with giving them permission to simply explore it, because a lot of them have never been given permission to do that before. And I was in a room with 200 women. I was speaking, and I said, I just. I want all of you to know that you have permission to explore this. And the room was just like. Like, they just. Tears streaming down their face because, you know, they're like, I've always been told I have to take care of my children. I've always been told I have to. I have to keep a clean house or I have to support my partner. I have to do this. And they're like, you just. You gave me permission to explore this autonomous idea of how I can uniquely contribute. And it was so powerful. So the first place I think people have to start is they sincerely need to create a space in their relationships and in their life to be able to pursue that and give themselves permission to pursue it. And where I start with all my entrepreneurs, we have a whole time system that we use with people. We call it the anthropology time system. But for most people, they don't get to adequately explore it because they don't have time. They're always here in reaction mode. You've got kids, right? You're just like. And you have to manage your time differently to create room for your purpose, to grow and for you to find it. So we start there. Permission, and then creating space.

Cool. What's your purpose? You have it boiled down to the elevator pitch style or.

That's such a good question. I was like, I don't know. No, I do. Well, you know, more than. I would say, more than a defined thing, I would say I'm driven by this core belief that when people have their health, they can change the world. And that from very early on in my career has sort of been the guiding light of anything that I create. So when we were. When I was sort of looking at the evolution of my career and who I was working with, I started to attract more and more entrepreneurs into my practice because I was so fascinated by the contribution that they were making. And when they didn't have their health, they could not contribute on scale. And so just continued to grow my practice in that direction. And then, conversely, I do a lot of work to support clinician entrepreneurs scale their practice, because I realize I certainly can't see everyone, nor am I the right fit for everybody, but I have incredible colleagues who are just so talented as clinicians, and they had no idea how to run a business or find that balance. And that was a skill set that I naturally had, and it was a perfect extension of this core belief. So I don't subscribe to having to run my business according to any particular model forever. I will forever be driven by this idea that how do I scale the accessibility of this system of medicine, naturopathic medicine, Functional medicine and make it accessible to more people. That's what drives me.

Love it. Oh, that's awesome. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah, I am. You know, I think it is so important. I mean, you know, you as kind of badass businesswoman and physician. Right. Leading this amazing tribe of entrepreneurs basically globally. You know, your purpose really has got to be the shining light. I mean, I'm guessing, you know, it's not every day is roses. Right. There's some, there's some trench work. Right. And that purpose. Yeah, that, you know, that that's what gets me going too. It's like just a strong purpose, you know, mine, I just have it kind of boiled down after the 18 years is just, you know, my purpose is to help as many people achieve optimal wellness through an integrative care model. And as I, you know, that kind of gets me up on the, on the bummed out days of like, no, you've got a strong. You gotta. You're living this purpose doc. Let's get it going. And, and that spins out into all kinds of different avenues. But it is. When I saw you kind of put that through on a topic to talk about and you boiled it down to one, it's like, oh, this is so good for our listeners to hear, you know, because that process of getting connected up into with a functional doc. Naturopathic physician that actually can ask this question, I mean, it's something that. It's making me think I should probably put that on my intake form. Right? Like, you probably lead with that.

Yeah, we lead with it. And some people put a blank. And like I said, some people put eczema or whatever they're managing. But you know, I think just asking it, I find this. But our intake forms in general, they're longer than people have ever experienced before. I'm sure your patients feel the same way.

Sure.

And just the. Just the act of asking people about themselves with such care and specificity is an incredible experience for people. So when we start to layer on these like deeply emotional questions, you know, that element of care just asking people about themselves in a really intimate way, I also think is really powerful.

Yeah, yeah. That whole just holding that space and opening it up for them, that is so good. So your. I'm curious if you found just. I'm going to stick on this topic just a little bit longer, you know, between the entrepreneurs and then just general lay public. Have you noticed a difference of response to that question? And you said, well, you noticed in the entrepreneurs, you were asking it there mainly. And then you started asking it to all of the patients.

So I think I tend to have entrepreneurs who are able to answer that a little bit quicker than my non entrepreneurs. I think partly because what has enabled a lot of them to get to the place that they are at has required that they identify with at least some sense of purpose because the days are long and often unpaid. And there's a great degree of instability as one starts out. And I think for people to really make it through that phase, psychologically, you're connecting to something. But once we ask the question, quite often with my entrepreneurs, they're like, oh, you know what, I can make this a little more granular and a little bit more specific. So they're definitely more open to the idea, they've often explored it a little bit sooner. And entrepreneurs who are seeking functional medicine as a direction of care, these are the same people who have invested in masterminds, invested in self development. And so this idea of identifying with purpose and self discovery isn't as foreign to them.

Yeah, awesome. Yeah. So maybe easier for them to answer because that's what that's kind of in there. I mean it's such a, that's a small subset of people out there that are entrepreneurs. So yeah, you know, I mean, maybe not so much in our circles that we run in, but in general, the.

General population we say entrepreneurs and go getters because I believe that the spirit of entrepreneurism, entrepreneurism, it hides out in like the office towers and you know, there's a lot of people who are, who are very driven and they're strong self starters and often those are the people who are like, huh, this purpose thing, it makes sense to me.

Yeah. What in the boutique practice that you've got set up there, what's your unique, kind of unique ability? Like you've got some really cool things going on up there in Toronto. So you know, what's a process look like coming in with Dr. Walker? Because my guess is you've got patients, clients all over the place.

Yeah, yeah, we do. So we treat a fair number of people in a virtual context. For those who were able to move through the door, it allows for us to do a little bit more extensive testing. We do something called a WABI test, which is an EEG of people's brains. We actually see how quickly people's brains are processing information. It's not a function of intelligence. It's like how efficiently is the brain working as an organ? And we measure that in addition to a variety of other metrics like heart rate variability and A lot of other cool biohacking tools because we want to give people hard data with respect to how they're performing. And so I say to everybody walking through the door, and a lot of people come in, they're like, I don't feel great and I have stuff I want to do in this world. And my doctor says I'm fine. And I put this in quotation, no one can see me, but I put this in quotations because we call that the line of fine. And where we really love to pick people up is we take them from the line of fine to a state of optimal. And that requires a different set of testing. It requires that we're not measuring you and assessing you for a state of disease. We're measuring you for a state of optimization. And so it's a different set of tests. Now we're looking at what's your health potential as opposed to treating you from a place of illness. And so we focus a lot on that. We initially focus, we bring people up to baseline, we have a foundational program, we move everyone through and, and then we focus on gut and liver health, and we focus on hormonal stabilization. And then we're moving everyone to a place where we're optimizing what's called mitochondrial health. Mitochondria in your cells, this is where your powerhouse of your body, where energy is literally produced. We focus on mitochondrial optimization and brain health because ultimately for the people who find their way into our office, they're like, I got stuff to do in this world. I need my brain operating at a whole different level.

Sweet. Wow. So how long does that. I mean, obviously it's gonna be different for everybody, but I mean, is that like a 10 year plan, a one year plan, six month plan? What do you got there?

We generally move most people through our standard program in six months. Occasionally it takes a little bit longer. So we really try to keep it. We try to keep it highly focused.

Awesome. I'm sure. So you've got predominantly entrepreneurs, go getters, you're going for optimization, kind of this thriving component with the patients.

Yeah, absolutely. And that's really where we want to take people is to a place where they are in their optimal health. And then we'll look at, we'll start to focus and move people in the direction of, you know, are we working with a more specific disease or do we have a more maintenance program that we have to focus on?

Got it. Cool. And what. So you mentioned the wobe test, heart rate variability.

Yeah.

What do you got going there?

Yeah. So heart rate variability. We all have a heart rate, so we've all familiar with that element, and certainly as physicians, we're familiar with that as a metric. But when we're talking about heart rate variability, what we're looking at is the change of amplitude of each of those beats that happen over a given period of time. And what's so interesting about this as a score is, is that as our heart rate variability starts to increase and go up, it's actually a very strong indicator of overarching physiological health. And so what we really endeavor to do is move people to a place where we are increasing their heart rate variability. So I'm wearing a little ring right now called the OURA ring. It measures heart rate variability while I'm sleeping. We have all of our new patients wear a heart rate variability monitor on their chest for their first two weeks working with us because it allows us to understand, are they in that sympathetic fight or flight phase, or are they in that parasympathetic phase where their body's able to rest and digest a little bit more efficiently? And it's very difficult to heal. It's very difficult. You can't, in fact, achieve that flow state or that place that entrepreneurs are really endeavoring to reach when you are stuck in that sympathetic state. And so part of that foundational evaluation with our patients is really understanding where their baseline sits. And often we'll be able to leverage a tool moving forward so that they constantly have that metric so they can really start to shift their behavior.

Cool. And you actually, you're seeing it. So on the heart rate variability, it's. What are you looking for at nighttime for folks? Because I know a lot of folks listening to the show are tracking with OURA rings, and the Apple watch, I think, does it as well. And.

Right, right. Well, I mean, I'm really looking for it to increase over time. So everyone's baseline is going to be a little bit different. People are drinking alcohol at night. It's going to be different. If they are, you know, on any sort of medication or other things that's going to drop. But I really say to my patients, I'm like. And every. I'll say too. Every device is different. So I don't want to say, you know, everyone should be at 100, because if you have a peripheral device on your wrist or on your hand, and you're naturally going to have a slightly lower heart rate variability, like, the most accurate way is to actually measure it right on the chest. So we want to see it increasing Overall, it's going to depend on your. On your device. For people who have an OURA ring, I really like to see it starting to be above 75, which is a big deal for a lot of people. They're like, whoa, I've never been that high. When we're using our leaf, which is what we attach to our chest, I really like to see people being able to push that closer to 100.

Wow. Cool. What? And also, I mean, you're not in heart rate variability. You're not looking at lowest heart rate throughout the evening either. Right. That's the other component of it. Right. On having the. When you hit your lowest rate, that can kind of show your recoverability or, you know, how, you know, are you ready to go for the goal the next day type of deal.

Yeah. So I really like understanding and measuring that difference between, you know, our recovery is really where all of our growth happens and whether we're talking about lifting or we're talking about recovery on that mental, emotional level, that's where that, that piece is going to be so, so critical. And the higher our heart rate variability can be at night, it's usually a higher indication of how effectively we're actually starting to recovery. Sleep is also incredibly important to that as well.

Cool. Yeah. Of getting deep sleep, REM sleep, all of the different sleep cycles. Oh, yeah. This all. I mean, it ties beautifully together into mosaic of health. Right? It is. Well, one, I want to just take a moment. We are 20 minutes into the show, just announcing to folks that have just tuned in, this is what the Health. I'm Dr. Greg Eckel. I've got my guest, Dr. Megan Walker on the line here. We're talking purpose and biohacking really is what we're getting into here, patient health. And then we're going to talk about entrepreneurship, your entrepreneurship and everything that you've got going on there in a little bit. If you're tuning in, you go to naturecuresclinic.com I've got the RSS feed there. You can tune in and get to the beginning of this discussion because you definitely don't want to miss out there. So I want to get back into this. We're talking about recovery time, heart rate variability, how you're optimizing your patients for their health and really going towards this thriving or optimal state of being to get into these flow states. Wondering if you wanted to speak to flow state a little bit because that's a newer concept for folks.

Yeah, well, flow state is really this. Well, it's highly driven by purpose, actually. But flow state is this physiological state where one is quite focused on what it is that they are actually trying to do. They're in that parasympathetic state with respect to their neurological system, and it quite literally is like, whatever it is that they're trying to do is flowing directly through their system. And people have had this experience. You know, some people who love to be on stage are like, I've been on stage. I don't even know what I said. Things just came out of my mouth. I'm sure that's happened multiple times during this podcast for me so far. For other people, it's in an athletic endeavor. They just get so, so focused that they are able to tune out everything else that is around them. But flow state is really this place physiologically where we are totally focused on what it is that we need to achieve, and it's highly in alignment with our aptitudes.

Nice. And do you have so many, like, biohacking tips or tips for folks on how to access that? Because that is such a beautiful state to be in. You know, just. I used to get into that playing hockey so that, you know, it's like you're just in it, and there's so much action going on, and you don't even. You're not even thinking about it, and then, you know, you hit the puck and it goes in the net. It's like, wow, how did that happen? You know, just in the flow. And, you know, in the business world, too, that happens as well. But more fond memories of ice hockey.

I really love that you love hockey so much. The Canadian in me is just, like, all tingly.

Yes, totally. Well, so do you have any suggestions on how to be able to access that?

You're like, focus, focus. Yeah. So I will say, I mean, first and foremost, to be able to achieve that, you have to be in that parasympathetic state. So if you. If you have something like your oura ring or your leaf or you have any other kind of tool, if you're in fight or flight or you're highly stressed, your breathing is shallow, you are not able to access that. In fact, the opposite version of flow state is, in fact, an anxiety attack. Like, if we're talking about the two opposite ends of the spectrum, that would be the place that you don't necessarily want to be. So first, you actually have to be. You have to be relaxed and focused. I find that for my entrepreneurs or people who are moving who need to access it in a mental emotional state, one of the most critical, consistent factors we need to have with respect to their health is exercise. So, you know, you weren't far off with that hockey piece. Individuals who are exercising more frequently are able to achieve that flow state and a higher degree of efficiency certainly in our practice and the audience that we are working with and individuals who consistently engage in a mindfulness practice. So it doesn't necessarily have to be full blown hour long meditations, but certainly being engaged in a consistent mindfulness practice, even if it's three minutes with your, with your muse on or some other tool that helps you to engage in that relaxed state, all of these things are going to help you move into that state a little bit more, a little bit more frequently.

Awesome. That's awesome. So on. Okay, so we've gone down the road, heart rate variability into a flow state. What other big things do you, what other big big items are you looking at for folks as they come in for this optimization program of yours?

Yeah, we spend a lot of time. The reason we have sort of, we'll call them our care pillars set up the way that we do in working with entrepreneurs. But I don't think this is dissimilar across the population. We deal with a lot of people with anxiety, which has been massively disruptive to their gut and digestive health. And so we always start there because I can't treat anxiety and not treat the gut. And usually, you know, that chronic anxiety has implicated the gut, it's implicated the microbiome, which then has a cascading effect into hormones. So we really do start doing a lot of work with respect to digestion, while simultaneous simultaneously introducing some of these mindfulness ideas. And sometimes we'll use strategic supplementation or whatever we need to do to start to decrease that sympathetic tone in their system so their digestive systems like actually can do my thing when you're not stressed out all the time. So we actually spend a lot of time there. It's not uncommon for entrepreneurs or certainly our audience to have very significant issues with anxiety. And so we spend a lot of time being able to manage that penalty. And once we get that stabilized, ultimately what this audience is looking for is they want energy. And so if we can optimize digestion and really ensure that that element of their system is working more strongly and consistently, then we can get into managing things on a hormonal level. And then we can really start to do some advanced, some advanced energy plays. But I work with a ton of women, and so when women are chronically stressed and my entrepreneurial women are just like, I'm just going to pay a head down and I'm going to plow through. One, we have some behavior change that we need to address. And two, their hormones are a mess. They've been chronically anxious. Their adrenal glands, they've shriveled up and left. Yeah, right. Like, it's had implications in terms of menstrual cycles and estrogen dominance. And, like, we have work to do to get these systems in place. So often these people come in, they're like, never been sick in my life. I'm totally healthy. I just need more energy. And we actually start to break it down and ask questions. Not about, are you fine, but are you optimal? You realize they have so much room where they could start to improve.

Yeah. Oh, that's awesome. You know the acronym fine? What we say that is have you heard this? So you'll love it. This is really inappropriate, but I'm going to say it anyways because it's my show. Fucked up, insecure, neurotic, and excitable.

Oh, yeah.

I'm just fine. Doctor. It's like, really? You. Do you know what that means? Yes. So that is. Yeah, you can use that.

I'm going to totally. Well, you know, people come in and they also don't know. They don't know what health is. So, you know, you ask them about, like, well, tell me how often you've had a bowel movement. I don't know what time of day your listeners are listening, but here we go.

Yeah.

And they'll say, oh, yeah, yeah, like once a week. What? My doctor says it's normal. And so, you know, we spend a lot of time educating on the difference between common and normal, because when people start to understand these cues from their systems, they're like, whoa, there's this whole other realm of health. And because we're not explicitly treating a condition, we're treating a complement of individuals. We're like, I've got stuff to do. We actually end up treating a huge variety of issues in our practice. And it's, you know, a lot of our work is getting people to baseline. And then once they're at baseline, then we get to do the fun stuff where we're playing with optimal. But there's a lot of education around common versus normal, because these people mentally are like, I can just drive and push through anything. And that's often been to their detriment.

Yeah. So I love that you brought up common versus normal. So every time I lecture, I bring this up, and we Think it's a small semantics play. So I'd like to hear your, your commentary on that. Common versus normal.

Yeah, well, I'm trying to think of a really great, a really great example. Just about any health condition that comes in is frankly a really good example. You know, talk about periods day in and day out and women be like, oh yeah, it's totally normal. And then we get into the specifics and they're like, oh, you mean most people aren't curdled over in pain and they're not on half a bottle of Advil? And they, you know, these ideas of. I think TV has certainly done a very good job of taking things that are not normal and making us feel like if we just take a drug or we just mask the symptom, then you are back to how you should be. And so common are, you know, any of these symptoms that start to emerge. That's your body, that's your dashboard of your body saying to you, something's up. I do not have language or words to be able to communicate this, but something is up. And so these things can commonly come to the surface just like your windshield washer fluid light can come on. That's pretty common. It doesn't mean that your fluid levels are normal. And so normal is just above that line of fine where we are asymptomatic. But let's not also confuse normal with optimally healthy either.

Right? Awesome. That's so good. You know, I just actually got in from a lecture and I had about 30 people in the room and I had them raising their hand if they had two or more symptoms on a kind of a stress survey is what I call it. And you know, 90% of the people raised their hands and I say, you know, have any of you heard your providers just say, get used to it, you're getting old. Right? So take a look around because everybody, 90% of us have our hands up with two or more symptoms on here. And I basically say, okay, look, this is super common. It's so common that people start calling it normal. And when you call it normal, your unconscious mind grabs that and it's hard to get change if you've sent this signal in there to this powerful kind of goal achieving machine that we call our brains and our minds. And you know, I get all these light bulbs going off like, oh, that's why my, you know, my provider who's seeing 30 people a day is just telling me, get used to it. Because I'm not, you know, I'm just getting old. It's like, that's hogwash. So I get really fired up about that. So I love that you brought that up. Common versus normal.

I just feel like it's a human right for us to be told what the standard of health could be. Not, you know, not what our illness level or absence of disease health should be. I just, I don't. I just don't think it's fair that we set the standard so low and then we expect so much of people, like, tell people what's possible and it's okay to. It's okay to be disappointed then that you're not there. But it gives you something to strive to. It's like saying, you know, congratulations, you got through grade five and you had no idea that there were all these other places you could go and learn and explain. Like, I just think it's so unfair that we don't give people a fighting chance.

It's true. You know, I, as a young physician, I took such thorough histories and what I realized, not that I'm slow, but it was like, wait a minute, I'm going into agreement with their symptoms. Like, oh, you have back pain. Okay. You, headaches, okay. Menstrual difficulty. Okay. It was like, wait a minute, why am I saying okay? They're coming to me for my professional opinion on their health, and I'm telling them and their unconscious, that's fine, that you have all of that, you know. So thank you so much for bringing that up. All right, so we are. We're going to switch some gears, I think. Unless. Is there anything. Oh, there's one last topic on there. And then I want to switch really over to entrepreneurship and really what you're up to up there. But let's talk the last piece. And we've touched on it a little bit, biohacking. So, you know, you've talked about certain aspects. Like, you've got the aura ring on there. Right. That's. You're in the biohacking tribe. I see that by your ring. Right. But what biohacking, like, that's a passion purpose of yours. You're into measurability. You're looking at this thriving, optimal sense of being, helping creatives, being more creative. That's the society that I want to live in. That's why I'm so excited to have you on the show, sharing your information with the masses. What. What do you have there? Biohacking. If I just lob that to you, doc, Just.

Just that whole blob of ideas.

Yeah.

You know, I think for me personally, this was an area that I just gravitated towards because I'm an early adopter. So I'm really interested in technology, I'm really interested in, in measurements. I mean, as an entrepreneur myself, I like, I love dopamine. So dopamine is just like what you get every time something's new and, and fresh. I was like terrible with my MSN messenger back in the day. So I was like, oh, I got a message. So every time my brain was on fire. And then, you know, I think there's healthier ways of being able to access and do that. And so I actually, I just am naturally drawn on that spectrum of health opportunities and exploration opportunities to these ideas that enable us to be able to squeeze a little bit more out of is the wrong way of putting it. But to be able to access higher degrees of physiological potential. And so, you know, to use an example, one of the things we've started doing in the last few weeks, and by we I mean my husband, like he's, he's game, is we do ice baths before we go to bed.

Awesome.

And we like to have friendly competitions so we see who can last the longest and who can handle the most buckets of ice. And we're not like at full WIM HOF capacity yet, but you know, we'll, we'll fill our big bathtub with as cold as we can get it and I'll throw in four buckets of ice on top of it and I'll sit there for five minutes. And it's what started as a dare has now actually for, for me turned into one, an incredible hack to sleep more soundly and the data on my ring would confirm that. And two, it increases my metabolism so significantly. And I know that because within 30 minutes of doing ice bath, I am ravenously hungry, in which case I just, I actually just go to bed and I use that to be part of the triggers and perpetuators of a fast.

Nice.

Yeah, it's really neat. So I, you know, I have my own metrics that I want to be able to have access to. I want more energy. I have stuff that I'm, I'm wanting to do in the entrepreneurial sphere. And so being able to access my, my brain, being on point with my body and physiologically are critical to my success in all arenas. So, you know, I'm my own patient in that respect.

That's awesome. What are you finding? So what's your data, what's the preliminary data for Dr. Walker looking like?

Yeah, so I will say ice baths have jacked up my heart rate variability on my, on my oura ring. So I can sit at like close to 100 on my oura ring sleeping, which is really good from an oura ring data perspective.

Yeah.

And my deep sleep has gone up really significantly, so it sits at like 34%, which is also pretty high from a deep sleep perspective. I haven't taken any inflammatory markers because I wasn't overly inflamed to start with, but some of those key things that I wanted to move the needle on have been really quite helpful.

Oh, that's awesome. All right, well, so that leads perfectly into. Right, you've got this whole entrepreneur entrepolar. Yeah, it makes me my tongue trip every time. And you've got a huge, you've got a huge gathering of the tribe up there called Thrive in November. And you so graciously have invited me up to help come and speak as well. So I'm honored to be up there with you and the whole group that you put together. So I'm excited to hear about what is. You know, you spoke about it at the opening like you're doc with a mission and you're out to help the masses and so aligned with that. What do you, what are you cooking up there?

What are we cooking? Well, when I emerged from my igloo up here, we're cooking a few things. So we have a, we have an event in, in November called Impact Lives and it's a three day event for traditionally we had it for practitioners. And what we're going to beta test this year is we're actually going to bring in a group of female entrepreneurs to join us at the same time. And this is really an event about mindset and business amplification. And so our theme for this year's event is around abundance. And we're spending day one all around the mindset that enables us to attract more abundance into our life. In the afternoon, we're going to do a group therapy session around abolishing the money mindsets that don't serve us at this phase of our life. And in our missions to grow our business, we're going to do some work around tactics and we're also just going to have a really incredible time with very similar entrepreneurs all in one room with a really common mission. And what I love about this event and the people who come together for it is that everyone is there to support one another. So just by sort of nature of the content that we're delivering and the way that we do it, the people who are there to compete. And the people who are negative and they just. They just don't come. It's just not welcome here. So it's a really incredible tribe. And so we're expecting about 200 people at our live event on the shores of Lake Ontario in November. So not the nicest time to be in Toronto, but a great time to be in a conference venue in this city.

Indeed. Well, that's super exciting. So this is the second year that you've done it.

This is the second year.

Second year. Love it. And you have predominantly people are coming from just North America or where are you drawing from?

Yeah, so we. I mean, our audience in general is quite international. So on our podcast, the anthropology podcast, we pull from Australia and we have big cohort in South Africa and in the UK and certainly across Canada, the United States. But this particular event, we're pulling significantly from sort of the Eastern seaboard and across. Across Canada. But we're just gonna keep picking away at our American friends. I keep reminding them, I'm like, it is not expensive to travel here because you have a conversion advantage.

Indeed.

It's a great place to come.

Awesome. I actually, I did look at the hockey schedule. Your team is out of town for the whole week.

Yeah, they are.

Yeah, the Maple Leafs. So anyways, that's just a total aside on. Well, so tell me about your podcast. So you've been doing that for multiple years now, and it is all on this topic.

Yeah. So the entrepreneur podcast, we focus on three main things. Business, body and inner badass, which is all mindset. We're 140 episodes in, and for me, this is really about providing content and introducing people to. To thought leaders that really can help them amplify their impact and drive that purpose forward. So we talk a lot about business tactics, we talk about mindset, we talk about family, all the things that are balls in the air when we're trying to live our best life. And I always felt like it seems so simple when I was 18 years old and I was like, oh, and I'm an adult and I have total freedom and. Yeah, right, you laugh at that too, because there are a lot of balls. There are a lot of balls on the air. And my podcast is definitely one of my most favorite outlets. You just get to creatively explore and meet people doing incredible work in this world.

Sure. Awesome. Well, so on back to your tribe and you have. So out of the. Out of the thrive, you do a mastermind or some specific training for a subset of those folks or how do you support folks in their entrepreneurial journey there.

Yeah. So for our clinician entrepreneurs, we have a mastermind called the Clinician Code. And it is a year at a time commitment and it's really a three year, I'm going to call it community. So we have a ton of content and really incredible council members, but it's really a place to sort of solidify the foundational pieces of growth and scale within your practice. We attract a lot of practitioners who are like, I need something other than one on one care. Either they creatively need it, they need to diversify their income streams. They're just ready to explore and sort of take their leadership really to a new level. So we have the clinician code for them and then we're just looking. I've taken a sabbatical for just a few months from my own practice. I have a great team, but I've taken a sabbatical to really explore and speak to our consumer audience, our non clinician audience, to really understand how we can serve them in a bigger way. So I would anticipate we're going to have a really unique anthropology mastermind being released in 2020 that is going to combine those three elements of mindset, business and health. Because so many of these things are just like, how do I keep driving things forward? And I can never take off that clinician's hat. And I'm always like, oh, it's happening at the expense of your health. So I anticipate we're going to have something pretty cool that we can announce next week.

Love it. Oh, that's really cool and super exciting as well. All right, so one more reminder for folks just tuning in, this is what the health. I'm Dr. Greg Eckel, this is my guest, Dr. Megan Walker out of Toronto. And we are talking about purpose, we're talking about health, we're talking about inspiration, we're talking about creativity, flow state, we're talking about optimization. Right. That's the take home here. You know, one of the things. So you have, right, you've got a couple, like three businesses. Three businesses.

Two. Really.

Two. And then you've got the household, you've got a marriage, you've got children. So how does, what are the, I mean, what are the biggest lever movers for you? And before we get into that, there was one question I wanted to ask from the first part of our show, which was do you actually, for yourself. So it's kind of related, do you schedule just pure thinking time for Megan Walker, like just downtime for you to say okay, all distractions out. I've got a 45 minute block. I'm just thinking, yeah, I'm going to.

Try to do that more and more. I mean, we're 36 days out from our live event, so this thinking time is being squeezed slightly. But I really love to run. And so my running time, I always say, like my running time or going to a spin class is the best investment in my business because I'm more creative, I'm less stressed, I'm all of the things. So, so yes, and it manifests in those two things. I also travel a lot. You and I seem to encounter each other all the time.

We do.

And I really genuinely take time then. So I'm not that frantic person frenetically working in my room. I'm actually just enjoying my friends and my relationships when I travel. And that's a nice alone time because I have three young kids who are really demanding in the best possible way. But I try to be really present when I'm, when I'm with them, but I need more of it. Yeah. And I've started waking up really early, which was hard for me. But I also find that that quiet time, the stillness, the transition between dark and the sun coming out is a really powerful and productive time for me to just kind of think and step back and explore ideas.

Nice. Yeah, that's, that's a concept I've been playing with. You know, I realized, you know, I need to actually schedule in some of that down, quiet time because otherwise, you know, we're so apt to just fill it up as we're want to do. Right. Because you're busy. Right. And there's a lot of stuff going on. But you know, I really, I'm thinking I'm looking for two 45 minute blocks. I also appreciate travel that way and you know, it always kind of just amazes me where, you know, and we've seen them like the entrepreneurs living the lifestyle and they're having to work the whole, the whole time off and it's like, well, that, that is not a life. You know, like that's just busyness. You know, you need the downtime and you need to, you know, fill up or charge the proverbial soul battery is what I call it.

I think you and I have solved a lot of the world's problems on a beach and floating in the ocean.

I think so too. And yeah, I'm excited to, you know, put those into action for sure. That's good. That's good stuff. So that's one piece for you, you've got the running and you're finding time with that. I know it is tough with younger kids or kids in general, right. I've got five that are slowly matriculating out of the home and I could say that I'm really proud and love them all and am really excited to know them. Instead of. There's always that one. No there isn't. I've got, I've got really great kids. So it. But you know, they do take, you know, like I was out till 9 o' clock at the soccer game last night, right. And so that's like, you know, it pinches the time and there's juggling and you've got all of the balls in the air wondering if there's some like, some of those bigger levers that I asked about. Like, are there some specifics? Like you're like, oh yeah, this, this one, once I put this in, it was like a game changer for me. And you might not have something like that, but I'm just curious to be honest.

When I stopped working at night was a game changer for me. So I used to like, I put the kids to bed and then I would rush and I would try to, I would try to get everything done and I currently have a child who just came in the door and so I just stopped it. I was like, I am tired, I am not productive, I'm somewhat resentful. And so I just, I actually sit on the couch with my husband or we talk about something or get together with friends. But like once the kids go down, it's like the gateway to relaxing. So I don't rush through bedtime the same way I don't tell them I have to go work. I'm not frenetic. So actually stopping and not working at night has been a game changer for me.

That's huge. I'm wondering with entrepreneurs, I mean that's a kind of that workaholism or the. It's so 80s is what I say is like, oh, I get to choose, you know what 80 hours a week I'm working. You know, what do you, what do you tell them? Like, because you know the laundry list is, I mean it's there. It's like you're just, you know, it's a never ending to do totally well.

There's seasons, right? Like when we're two weeks out from our event, this like la di da, I don't work at night is going to be out the window. I'll be busy. But it's certainly not the lifestyle I subscribe to all the time. And, and the thing I usually get my entrepreneurs to do is I'm like, take me through why you wanted this lifestyle in the first place. Because it is a lifestyle and it's all, there's always freedom words in there. Right. I wanted financial freedom, or I wanted time freedom, or I wanted location freedom. And I usually bring them back to this idea that I differentiate entrepreneurism from being self employed because you're actually strategically moving in the direction of freedom. But if you are working 80 hours a week and you are grinding it out and you can see consistently hustling, then what you are is self employed without all the benefits of being employed. And being self employed and being an entrepreneur are two different things. So there's definitely phases where I'm like, I am flat out hustling and it's not in alignment with how I want to be doing this, but there really are seasons. Yeah. And then most of the time, I'm consistently moving into a direction that's in alignment with where I want to go.

That's awesome. Yeah, I think you've said that. Well, it's not always that you can have the Zen approach. Right. There's some deadlines and there's some realities of like, no, this has got to get done now, but it comes back to what kind of what we started with around that purpose. And you know, I always look at, I think my future self, my future self, Greg will really thank me today for putting in this hard work. But the goal is to actually get that freedom of time, space and finance. Right. So, like, you know, it took me again, not that I'm slow, but about 15 years of being self employed to realize, wait a minute, I'm my best employee, but I'm working harder than everybody and that's not sustainable. Right. Like, I'm like, I don't see any end in this. So it is, it's a big mindset shift to get into. Like, okay, if I want to have a broader message and a broader impact in the world, I've got to set this up. So the whole thing feeds me. Like, we can all be in that abundant component where, you know, the whole rising tide phenomenon happens, that I'm doing well, you're doing well, the health is going better, you know, there's more creativity and love in the world. Like, that's really ultimately what we're after. Right. Like is can we make that those ripples in each of our communities and then in the continent, then around the globe, that's How I see us affecting change, which is such a fun discussion to get into with folks that are in entrepreneurial mindset and, or in the creative sense and having creativity or flow. Well, you have to be relaxed. You got to be able, you know, to take care of yourself. Used to always drive me batty, that concept of self love. And I'm wondering if I, if I pose that to you, like, does that ever come up in your conversations with people or does that get broached at all?

Oh yeah, totally. Self love and self compassion and self care and all those things. We actually did a whole webinar on the neuroscience of self compassion because I couldn't get my heady people to like really envelop what this idea is all about. But like you, like, I feel like I'm at a stage in life where as I walk through a bookstore and I see all the journals lined up, I'm like, I get the quotes now. Like before they were lovely and now I'm like, oh, like I. These were wise people past the age of 40 who wrote all these quotes because they like, they really felt it and they, and they got it. But you know, part of that journey is about, is going to be about that, that self care and that self love because you know, certainly with, with my entrepreneurs. But anyone who's purpose driven, this is a marathon. Pursuing your purpose is not like a five minute sprint and you are done. And so the only way to really get in any momentum or movement towards the finish line, it's going to require that you have a good relationship with yourself in the process.

Awesome. Yeah. Any closing remarks or. I mean, that was beautifully put as well. Anything else that you would like to share with our listeners here on what the health.

Yeah, you know what, I really just want to give everyone permission to pursue their purpose. And pursuing purpose is not making lunches for your kids or for your spouse or they are opportunities for your purpose to shine through, but they aren't it in and of itself. Your purpose is, you know, that confluence of what you're really good at and where you can make meaningful contribution and what makes you feel incredible in terms of getting out of bed and contributing on a daily basis. And I think if we all did that, this be would world would be a much different place.

Awesome. Thank you so much, Dr. Walker, for coming on the show. I've got your contact info in the show notes. I'm wondering if there's a preferred platform for you, for people to connect.

Yeah, well, I mean I'm happy to send over some some places that people can access me, but I love to chat with people on on Instagram, so they send me direct messages there. But that's where I hang out the most.

I've got your handle on there. I've got your handle there. Facebook, your website. We got it all hooked up on notes. Sweet.

Amazing.

So good. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. Bombs here with us today. This is what the Health. I'm Dr. Greg Eckel. If you're just tuning in, boy, you missed a show. Go to naturecaresclinic.com and listen to it. Please share us with your friends and family and help us get the word out. You're not going to hear this information anywhere else, so please share us again. What the health. Here we go.