Transcript of a patient follow-up interview (recorded Dec 4, 2018) between Dr. Greg Eckel and patient Kathy about a knee stem cell procedure performed one week earlier. Kathy reports long-standing osteoarthritic, “bone-on-bone” knee pain (worse after activity), rates pain ~5–6/10 at worst, has had prior knee injury, and is experiencing early subjective improvements after adjunct therapies (hyperbaric oxygen, acupuncture, Bowen therapy). Dr. Eckel describes expected response timelines and follow-up plans.
Chapters
Perfect. Well, cool. Thanks, Kathy. Hey, so I wanted to ask you. We did the stem cell procedure. That was a week and a half ago.
No, it's just a week ago.
It was one week ago.
A week tomorrow.
Perfect. A week tomorrow. So our initial, you know, one week check in. So first I'll start with, you know, what were we, what were we going after your kind of initial symptoms and complaints. So why did we do that procedure?
Well, I have cranky knees.
Cranky knees?
Yes, cranky knees that have lost the range of motion. They ache a lot and I have no cartilage in them.
So I'm bone on bone on both sides.
On both sides. Full of arthritis and I have a fairly high pain tolerance. So that daily.
A good and a bad, right?
It's good and bad.
How long have you had symptoms?
Oh, oh, I would say years.
Years?
Years. About 15 years ago I broke my leg through my left leg, through my knee. And I know I had cartilage then because the orthopedist said I. My femur dinged the cartilage.
Got it. Okay.
At that point, you know, kind of took out a divot in the cartilage.
Okay.
But the knees, they've never been. It's never been the same since.
Since that.
Yeah. And I think the right was doing.
All the compensation compensated for the left. Got it. And scale of 0 to 10, 10 being worst pain ever, where was I? Yeah.
Oh, I would say maybe five at the worst times. Five to six at the worst times.
And was it continual, intermittent, comes and goes?
Yeah, it would come and go.
It would come and go. And those I like to see the.
Hate, the heat and ice.
Yeah. And swell up it.
Yeah. I feel like it was swollen. Yeah.
And then that restricted range of motion.
A big hike or something. I just felt like my knee was large and didn't want. The next day I could hardly walk.
How did you. So you saw our presentation on regenerative medicine and stem cells. How did you make your decision to do that?
Well, I'd been told that I should up for total knee replacements and I wasn't on that page. I didn't want to do that. I tend to lean more toward naturopathic and holistic self care. And I've heard about stem cell therapy before. My daughter's mother in law had it done in Denver, I think used her own cells and she, she did that about almost two years ago and she's had good results.
What did she do it for?
Same thing.
Knees.
She recreationally. Ballroom dances. Her passion.
Oh wow.
She Couldn't do that anymore.
Right.
That's what she is she back to ballroom dancing recreation? Yeah, yeah, she is. Her new husband isn't so into dancing.
Okay, okay, Got it, Got it.
So a little less. I do it as much, but yeah, she's happy.
But she's able to.
She's happy with result.
Cool.
Yeah.
Awesome. So you knew somebody and had heard about it and then were counseled like, you're gonna need a knee replacement.
And I just didn't want. I wasn't interested in going that direction.
Yeah.
And I've been told, yeah, people, when they have it, they wish they hadn't waited so long doing the total knee replacement.
Right.
They're really happy with it. But I've had friends who've done it and just watching them go through it.
It'S a lot of rehab and it's a lot of work, and it's not a given.
Right, Exactly.
Yeah, exactly.
So I thought I'd try to keep my own joints for as long as I can.
Perfect. This would work well. And, you know, and that's. That's my approach too. You know, when you do a voluntary surgery, you know, it really should be as a last resort, and we're in a great time to be alive and that we have this opportunity of this regenerative component. So one week later, Right. No miraculous cure. You're not in that. 10% of responders of no pain in 24 to 48 hours. But tell me what's happening.
I feel good. Well, last week, after my first hyperbaric.
Yeah.
Time treatment, walking down the street, I felt great.
Awesome.
I figured that was all that extra oxygen.
Indeed, indeed. How long did that last?
Oh, I'd say through the evening.
Awesome.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And we do here at Nature Cures, we do five of those in addition to doing five acupunctures specific to the area of complaint, to really maximize your stem cell. You know, we just put the stem cells in you, and so we want to maximize them. Staying around for as long as possible they can. On average eight months. So, you know, like I said, 10% are the early responders. Then you got 30 to three weeks. Yeah. Three weeks to three months is a majority. About 50% of people at three month mark have had some response. So, you know, we're still in the beginning phases. We're not done yet.
Is that some response, like how they feel or is it in addition having an X ray to take a look?
We don't want to do an X ray at least for nine months because The X rays are damaging to the stem cells, so it's really on subjectively. How are they feeling? Which is important. We want you to feel the difference. Right. Yeah.
It's all about how you feel.
Indeed. Yeah. That's what we're doing. Like, we want you to, you know, age well. Yes. Yeah.
Enjoy doing.
Indeed. Hiking and camping and canoeing and all of that. We want to keep you as physically active as long as possible. That's why we live here, right?
That's right.
You know, for the beautiful summers. Indeed. And it's coming. Right. Great. And anything else. Have you noticed anything else with regards to, you know, you're doing a lot. You're also doing Bowen therapy, so you've got acupuncture and Bowen and the hyperbaric. And we did the stem cells a week ago. We. Are you noticing anything else in this week?
No. The bone. I also have scoliosis, so the bone has helped me standing up straighter and I think aligning my bones a little bit better, and I think that helps with the pain.
Yeah.
But, yeah, I just. I feel good. I don't feel as achy.
Awesome.
Yeah.
Cool. So I really appreciate you sharing that story with us, and I'm gonna check in with you, too, going forward. You know, of course, we're expecting more benefit as we go.
