47: Battling Breast Cancer Through Strength and Resilience with Carla Patullo

Hello and welcome to the Kenya Breast podcast with Dr. Jen. The show dedicated to empowering women through knowledge, tools and resources to take control of your breast health journey. I'm your host, Dr. Jen Simmons, and I'm thrilled to have you join me on this insightful and inspiring journey. As a breast cancer surgeon turned functional medicine physician, I'm on a mission to empower women to live their breasts and need best lives. This podcast dives deep into all topics related to breast health, including prevention, diagnosis, treatment, and holistic approaches to support overall well being. You know what I say? Breast health is health. So no matter who you are, a breast cancer survivor, newly diagnosed in treatment, living with metastatic disease, or you're simply seeking to improve your breast health, this podcast is for you. Join us on this transformative path towards better breast health and a thriving life. And now, let's get to today's episode. Hi there, it's Dr. Jen and welcome.

To another episode of the Keeping Abreast podcast. I am especially delighted to bring you my guest for today. She is a really special, super duper talented lady who is an award winning musician and film composer and she has a tremendous story behind her latest album which actually resulted in a Grammy for her. So, Carla Patullo, I want to welcome you to the show and I'm so grateful that you're here and so excited to share your story with my listeners.

Oh, thank you so much for having me. And I'm excited to be here.

So first, you know, having come from a family with a very famous musician, because I don't know if you've ever heard my story, but my cousin was a woman named Linda Creed and she was a singer songwriter in the 1970s and 1980s and wrote all the music for the Spinners and the stylistics. She wrote 54 hits and her most famous song was the Greatest Love of All. And I tell her story all the time because she actually wrote the Greatest Love of All as the title track to the movie the Greatest, starring Muhammad Ali. And that was in 1977. But that song actually received its acclaim in March of 1986 when Whitney Houston would release that song to the world. And at that time, it would spend 14 weeks at the top of the charts. Only my cousin Linda would never know because she died of metastatic breast cancer one month after Whitney released that song. And she knew a thing or two about writing music when you had a breast cancer diagnosis and you wrote a lot of music before, and then in 2019, things changed for you.

Yeah.

So I want to start off by asking before 2019, how would you have described your health? How would you have described your career?

Where.

Where were you? Like, where did all of this start for you?

Yeah, I guess I was just not really thinking about my health. I know that sounds crazy. It sounds crazy to me now, but I, you know, was just kind of young at heart, you know, working a lot, playing a lot, you know, just kind of like living the musician life, but also just, you know, not really, you know, thinking about what I was doing to my body as far as, like, you know, you know, working long hours. That was like, the main thing I look back at now and the food that I was consuming. You know, I was just, you know, not.

You were living the musician life.

Yeah. You know, whatever food was at the gig, I ate. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, it is a life of convenience in that you're not at home cooking all the time.

Right.

Right. And you do keep pretty off hours. Right. I mean, what did your hours look like?

Yeah, I mean, sometimes I would if I had a deadline for a film score. You know, you're looking at, like, no sleep sometimes, you know, within, you know, a few days there, you know, just really pushing it. And, you know, you basically not having any boundaries. You kind of, you know, especially in the music industry, you're, like, asked to do a lot of things in the film industry, too, where, you know, you're just pushing those boundaries of, you know, you're trying to have your work and get work and live up to these crazy deadlines.

Yeah, for sure. So you're chugging along, doing great things, loving your career, super talented, and 20, 19 pops around. You're around 40 years old at the time. And he felt a lump in your breast.

Yeah.

What was happening there? I think, back there?

Yeah, I. I think the first, like, time I kind of felt something going on, I was in denial. I think I was in denial about it for, you know, a few months. Like, you know, just like, oh, no, that's nothing. You know, whatever. Like, I think that's fine. I. I was always kind of, like, freaked out, like, by scans and exams and doctors. So, you know, I, you know, worry a lot. And I think, like, that almost played against me because I was such a worrier. I was like, I'm probably just worrying about nothing.

Yeah. So people, I find, go to one of two places. They either say, oh, my God, that's cancer, and I can't deal with it. And they kind of put it out of their head because they just can't deal with it, or there's no way that's cancer. I don't need to worry about it so much.

Yeah. I think I was more like, something's wrong, but I can't deal with it, so I'm just going to calm myself down. But, like, it kept building. That feeling kept building over months. And finally, finally, I was like, you know what? I got to go in and check this out.

Yeah. And our bodies are very smart, right? So when there is something off, it gives you signals, it sends you messages, and it says, like, please don't ignore me. Right. Like, you need to pay attention to me. And I. I always say, you know, breast cancer isn't breast cancer. Breast cancer is your body telling you whatever you're doing is not working for you. I need to, like, take a different tack. Go back to the beginning, figure out what's off, and. And make the necessary repairs. So what happened? What ended up happening with you?

Yeah, you know, like, I think, like, you know, from going. You know, first of all, I just want to say, going to my initial doctor, they really didn't think it was anything. And I would like to share this because there is, at this point, there was something in me that's like, well, you know, I mean, this doctor was really good. She was like, but let's go have your first mammogram, since you're due for one. And then even when I had my first mammogram, I remember the radiologist came out. He's like, yeah. And I just had this feeling. You have this feeling that something's up. The radiologist came out, and it's like, you know, we see these calcifications, but, like, it's really. We don't really think it's anything but why don't, you know, you come back and we'll do a. Like a.

Forgetting an ultrasound.

Ultrasound, yes.

Yeah.

Come back and have an ultrasound. And I remember saying to him, because I was with Kaiser Permanente, can I do that now? And he looked at me. He's like, well, okay. And he's like, I was gonna go to lunch, but tell you what, I'll, like, I'll do it now. I ended up getting that and a stereo biopsy all at the same time. And I really had to advocate for that. I think there's. That I could have come back in another month.

Yeah. Yeah. And thank God that you advocated for yourself. Right. And I think that that's, you know, the first important lesson that you. You had to learn is that you have to be an advocate, because no one, you Know, even the best doctors, even the most caring doctors, like that guy wanted to go to lunch.

Yeah.

Right. And you have to advocate for yourself.

Yeah. And, you know. Yeah, yeah, go ahead. Yeah. And I was just gonna say, you know, I think I was really, you know, lucky that I had someone who was willing to bend for me. And I feel like. I feel like doctors want to help, so it's like, you know, if you just have. They have so much going on, you know, in the defense of the doctor, he has to eat, too.

Yeah, yeah. No, they. I mean, they do. And he. He wouldn't have been wrong had he said to you, you need to come back, because unfortunately, like, they need to check a lot of boxes.

Right.

And get a referral, and, you know, they just can't say, you need these studies. They have to go to the primary. I mean, it's just the way the system works. There's a lot of gatekeepers.

Yeah.

So it was very kind and generous of him to just let that go, saying, like, we'll just figure out how to. How to get all of this approved retrospectively. And so, you know, that. That really was. That really was kind of him. And I'm. And I'm glad. I'm glad that you advocated for yourself, and I'm glad that you were working with someone who was willing to bend the rules to do the right thing for the patient.

Yeah.

Because that. That's what we all should be thinking about all the time is like, are we taking care of. What is more important? Taking care of the person that's standing in front of me right now or checking the boxes for the insurance company?

Yeah, I know. That's the.

Yeah, I mean, that. That's the rub. Okay, so you have this biopsy, and you get a very unexpected answer.

Yeah. And I just, you know, of course you're in this shock, and you, you know, I think, you know, with family, too, how am I going to tell? Like, I don't have any kids, but how am I going to tell, like, my extended, you know, my sisters and brothers? That was just already weighing on me. I knew I had this bad phone call to make, you know, and.

And it makes it real.

It makes it real. You're right. And I think, like, you know, I just was in so much shock, but I had so much fear because, you know, they were pretty much like, you know, yes, you have breast cancer. We think we caught it relatively early, but we'll be calling you to figure out, you know, when you'll go in.

To see your surgeon.

Or to get your full. Get the ball rolling, really, with your surgeon. And that was a crazy time because being in Kaiser Permanente, my first appointment was over nine weeks away and I freaked out. And I'm in LA and everywhere I called they were like, we can't see you for like a month. You know, and I couldn't live with that. So I. My partner knows of a breast surgeon back in Texas who, I don't know, maybe they just have more time, they're not as busy as la. And they took me, like, on a Monday. I got diagnosed on a Friday and they took me. I called that day and I got in on a Monday. So that was, again, advocating. I mean, I flew out to Texas because we have family there and I actually never came. I didn't come back. I ended up just leaving everything and staying in Texas. I guess being a musician, I have that nomadic lifestyle a little bit built in.

And also, I mean, you were very lucky to have family in Texas and have a resource somewhere else, because so many people, that's not an option for them.

I know.

Like, they have one home and one place where they're established and they don't have. Have the option of going to other places. So you were very lucky from that perspective.

And I was so lucky. And, you know, the doctor, the surgeon I had, Dr. Sprunt in Texas, she. She put me in touch with. With Dr. O', Shaughnessy, who's an amazing doctor out in Dallas, and that kind of confirmed me staying. I just. I remember meeting Dr. Oshaughnessy and thinking this person, like, is a warrior and she's going to be fighting in the corner with me and she's going to give me that energy, too. You know, it's not just about, like, all the amazing, you know, knowledge she has, but it's the energy she gave me to be strong and to go above and beyond with my health. And, you know, I carried a lot of that with me and. Yeah, I just feel so lucky to have been able to have that healthcare team. Thank you. Froze.

It's.

There you are.

I'm so sorry.

That's okay.

This is my amazing, awesome Internet. So. Let's just. Well, I'll pick right back up. So you have this amazing doctor, although you use these terms like strength and, and things like that, and I really try to stay away from all the warrior terms because I feel like so many of us spend all of our time and life fighting.

Oh, yeah.

And it's part of the fight that brings us to these diagnoses. And that for me, and what I talk about in my book is preparing for peace. Right. And while we want these amazing people to help us and to advocate for us and to support. Support us and certainly to inspire us. Right. But I. But I like to go to places that are hopeful and. And that kind of thing, rather than. Rather than that whole warrior mentality. Because we're fighting enough. Life is hard enough. Like, I don't want any more fights. You know what I'm saying? But everyone needs to think of it in their own way.

Yeah.

And it's what inspires you.

Yeah. Yeah. I think for me, like, Doctor. Dr. O' Shaughnessy is this doctor who I knew was just really smart, but she just, like, also just had this energy that was like, you know, like. I don't know, it just gave me the strength to keep going, you know? Yeah.

She inspired you.

She really did. And, you know, and I think, you know, even like today, when I'm making lifestyle choices, I think back to her and the hope that she gave me to get through this. I think that was really powerful to, you know, instill that in me, and I think that worked really well. Well with me and, you know, and making a change for myself. Yeah.

So while you're going through this diagnosis, you did what you do best, but you did it with a different inspiration and a different perspective.

Yeah.

So you wrote an album while you were going through treatment. Can you tell us about that?

Yeah. You know, like, I just, you know, music's always been, you know, since I was a kid, this fundamental thing for me that I can express myself through. And, you know, one of the beautiful things that I took out of this whole health thing was that that music was there for me. You know, I began just kind of in the beginning, not really wanting to sing or do anything. And then, you know, as I went through day by day, you know, getting a little bit stronger, a little bit more hopeful, I began to just kind of, like, you know, sing a little bit, you know, and it kind of grew. You know, first it was, like, I got to get these emotions out, and then it became, like, hopeful and, you know, and, you know, just as I was going through treatment, it just kept, you know, was very much aligned with that. And, you know, I remember in the beginning just having these raw vocal tracks that, you know, I would either sing into my phone and, you know, then eventually I set up a microphone and I would sing these vocals, and I would kind of build the songs around them, and the vocals had no lyrics. I, you know, Just, you know, I kind of had this empty feeling, you know, like, I just couldn't, like, express lyrically what I was feeling. And so that's where Howling came from, because I felt like my body just needed to howl. And so I, you know, all. All these vocal tracks are actually. They ended up being preserved. And, you know, I kept them. I didn't re. Edit them or anything. They are, you know, I sang those on the day that, you know, like a journal or like a documentary, you know, it's archived. Yeah. So. So, you know, I just kind of, you know, and all the way up to. Even this process now, this album has been a huge growth for me, you know. You know, being able to, like, talk about cancer now is something I couldn't do a couple years ago, you know, so it's just been this huge.

Yeah. And I think I've heard you say that you thought that this album was going to be a farewell for you.

Yeah, there was a point, like, at first I didn't even know it was an album. Then it, like, was going, and I was like, I'm going to finish this album. And I thought, like, this might be it, you know, like, this is it. Like, if I wanted to, you know, leave something behind. It brought me back to my grandmother, you see, because when. When I was young, my grandmother used to ask us to record her with a tape recorder singing these songs from Italy. She was from Italy. And she used to say, like, I want you to record me so that you remember me. And you remember, you know, you remember, like, where I came from in Italy. You remember these songs. And that's what this album kind of became to me was like, oh, yeah, this is what I'm leaving behind. And this is, you know, this could be my last, you know, musical album. And so I started treating it like that, and I really put my all into it and. Wow. Yeah.

I know that I read somewhere that writing this album for you often was your inspiration to get out of bed in the morning to. To. To actually have another day. And when. When did it kind of replace the fear for you? When did it. When did it do that transition? Where it went from, you know, howling and just survival to inspiration?

It's. It's such an amazing point question because I just realized this myself looking back. But when I. When I. When I brought on collaborators, they were really the wings for me to help me. I, you know, went out to New York and worked with the Scorchio Quartet. They do the Tibetan house concerts with Philip Glass and Laurie Anderson. And they're all about healing. And I, you know, had reached out to Martha Mook and asked her to come on this and I opened up to her about what I had just, you know, gone through and where I was right now. And she like lifted me and the quartet lifted me. It was the first time I could ever talk about it. And, and then the, all the collaborators, you know, the vocal ensemble, Lily Hayden, tonality, Lily Hayden, they every, everyone I worked with, they brought their energy and that really was a turning point of, you know, this is, this is something. And this is like, this something involves community. And it made me reflect on the community of cancer patients that, you know, that were part of my group when we were getting treatment. You know, like, you become friends with people and, you know, and the group of women that inspired me when I was doing radiation, I mean, yeah, that community, it's. It's special. So, yeah.

I remember when we were talking before we came on today and you said something about the new Carla versus the old Carla. So before you had breast cancer, how would you have described your health?

Not paying attention to it. And, you know, I think not eating well, I wasn't as physically active, you know, just physically not well, I think, you know, to the, you know, where I should have been maybe in my like 30s, late 30s. And yeah, like not really giving my body what it needs to get stuff done. And I think there's this fear, you know, even I hear this amongst a lot of composers and musicians, but I'm sure a lot of people can relate to this. But there's this fear that like, you have to kind of be at your desk working all the time, hustling and you know, one of Carla 2.0 is what we, my partner and I call the new Carla will take the time to. And I realized that like going for my walks, going for my hikes and going to the gym, this has given me more, more creativity actually. It's leading to better working. And I think, you know, I feel like I'm much better at what I do because of what I give my body. I mean, it makes total sense, right?

Like, yeah, I mean, listen, most of the experts talk about working smarter, not harder. Yeah, I'm definitely guilty of working harder a lot of the time. And you know, I have my smart alec, 18 year old in my ear saying, work smarter, not harder. Mom. Yeah, I don't know. Is that a thing in the writing world? Is that. I don't know.

I think maybe, you know, in the most part I hear stories a lot about you know, it's almost like a bragging thing, like, oh, I stayed up all night working on that project, or woohoo. And I came from a family that worked in the restaurant business. So that lifestyle's work hard, right? Work, work, work. You know, like, fit, long hours. So, yeah, I had to really evaluate what I. That mentality of hard work and switch it to thinking smarter and.

Yeah, yeah, but is it. I'm wondering if it's one of those things. Like, I know when I wrote my last book, there were times when I would sit there and nothing would come, and then there were times of great inspiration. And not that I am comparing my book to your brilliant songwriting, because believe me, I'm not. Like, I know I wrote an instructional and not a tech textbook, but it might as well be for the purposes of, I'm trying to help women, you know, survive and thrive through a breast cancer diagnosis. So, you know, this isn't me writing a fictional story or, you know, expressing great creativity, but that, I would imagine, from an artist. The inspiration comes when it comes, right?

Yeah.

I mean, sometimes that's like you're on a. You're on a roll.

Yeah, I. I think. I think you're. I think you're right. I think, like. And also, I think with your book, I mean, that is so creative and it, you know, and it's. I do relate to what you're saying and. But I think, like, what I've learned too is that life, you gotta live life to have those moments. And I feel like it kind of outweighed, like, it just sinks better for me. Like, you know, if I get to go out and have my moment with nature, my juices are flowing by the time I get into the studio. You know, it's. It's kind of like, you know how people say, like, work out in the morning and then you'll drink water and then you'll do all these, like, things, right? And that's kind of like how I feel like, with the creative process too. It's like, you know, that has been a switch for me with the creative process because I do remember being up at night, being like, oh, this song just came to me, Let me record it. But I don't know, somehow that shifted where I'm like, well, that moment's gonna happen tomorrow, and maybe I feel like I have a little bit more control over it.

And. And have you recognized or seen some insight as to, like, when you're productive? Because we talk about that all the time in my world. Like, there are some People who are just really super productive in the morning and then not so much in the afternoon. And some people are super productive in the afternoon, but mornings are really hard for them. And I know that we are all modern beings living on a very old gene code, and there are just some people that are programmed for different times of the day. So have you been able to dial in and learn that about yourself?

Yeah, well, I. You know, I very much used to write at night, and. But I actually. I don't know, it just. It shifted for me that now I love the mornings, so I don't know what that's about, but. But, yeah. And, you know, and amazing, I think, like, with film composing, too, like, you have these crazy deadlines. Like, you have to kind of push yourself to be a little creative sometimes at certain times. And I don't know, I think, like, I think there's something that. When I give myself that sleep, for example, I just feel a lot more inspired in the morning.

Yeah. So when you wrote so she Howls, was there a part of it that was hard for you because you were going through this journey? Like, did it feel raw or did you feel more vulnerable or.

Yeah.

How was that experience for you as it compared to other times in your life where you've. Where you've written and composed?

Yeah, that's a great question, because I feel like, you know, a lot of times when I start an album, I kind of know what I'm doing, you know, like, as far as, like, you know, at least the main concept and main theme and, you know, and this one was really like a documentary because it was like, I had no idea where this could go. So I felt like this, like, real. Like, in a way, it was kind of a freeness to do whatever. But, you know, I think, like, whatever you know, came out of me, I honored it. Like, you know, like, some of the vocal lines, it's like, okay, this is how I feel. Like, this means something. Whereas if I was doing a previous album or when I was working on previous stuff, it was more like, you know, like, oh, well, maybe I should go recut that and do that differently. There was less of that. This is more like, let's capture this. Yeah. Which was amazing. You know, it's kind of. It's kind of like the old records, where people would just sit in a room and record together, you know, and just jam it out.

Yeah. Are you happy with how it came out?

I am. I feel like it really captures what I went through, and I think. I hope that it is Something from start to finish that people can listen to and feel like this movement of going from one place to another and kind of like, you know, going through, like, the stages of grief. Yeah, yeah.

You received some accolades for that, for that album.

Yeah, yeah, that's.

That's a pretty special thing that you have.

Yeah.

Can you talk about that?

Yeah. I mean, you know, this out. Once the album was done, I, you know, of course, played it for, you know, my agents and professionals, and, you know, they were like, you should really, you know, go for a Grammy with this. And. And so I submitted it to the Grammys, and, you know, I just got such a great response from the recording academy. Another part of my healing process was, you know, the people who reached out to me who were like, you know, I don't know, because I hadn't said that I had gone through breast cancer. They just knew it was this album about healing. And anyway, so people who reached out to me with their own stories of trauma and how it resonated with them, and to me, that was just, like. It was so amazing. But it also made me feel not isolated with breast cancer. It made me feel like I could connect with people. It was kind of like a group therapy, almost like, you know.

Yeah.

And it was so amazing to get that response.

How does it feel to win a Grammy?

I'm still, like, every day, like, you know, like, I think about it. I'm like, that was pretty awesome that that happened. But, you know, I think, like, the bigger thing is that. I don't know, like, I. I think about these women a lot from the Herceptin trial and the war. I won't use the word warriors. I'm sorry, but the people who have.

You can use it, like, yeah, if that is what works for you.

I am on the fence about that word as well. You know, like, sometimes it comes in, sometimes it doesn' really fully, like, you know, I'm not fully around it yet, but I think, like, the. The women that kind of were there, let's just say the women going through it, they really, like, you know, haven't left my mind. And the women who go through it and take trials that are saving people's lives, it's just paving.

Paving the way for others. Right?

They really.

Because I would imagine that in. In the moment, it seems pretty scary and risky to be part of a clinical trial to. To. Because we never. We never use a clinical trial to decide, you know, if you get treatment or not, especially in the population of women that need treatment. Right. So then the, the trial becomes. Are you going to get the tried and true. Are you going to take a chance and see if this thing works better? But it's a chance. And also anyone who participates in a trial, you don't know if you're getting the thing or not.

I know that's, I mean it's, it's just mind blowing to me, like, to think I, you know, like I went into this knowing that I was taking this medicine that had like this, you know, great, you know, response and you know, through.

Well, let's give people a little background because I don't think we've mentioned the part that your disease was HER2 positive.

Yes. Yeah.

And when you accepted your Grammy, you dedicated it to a very special group of women. So let's talk about that group of women and, and why you felt so strongly about dedicating your Grammy, which is like the pinnacle Aw. For you and your career. And yet you, you felt so strongly about dedicating your grammy to this group of women. So talk about that.

Yeah. I mean, so, you know, this trial, I believe it happened in the 90s and I think it was led at UCLA by Doctor. I hope I don't slay his name, but Dr. Slayman or, and he was, you know, ran this trial and Dr. Hurwitz, who ended up being my oncologist later, was part of that too. And these women, I mean, they took this, this experimental Herceptin, you know, and I think a lot of the women, maybe they were either metastatic or, you know, I think most of them were metastatic. And, and the results from that trial were mind blowing that, you know, eventually it led to being, you know, approved. Yeah.

I mean, Herceptin is by far our greatest discovery in the, in the modern area, in the modern era, in the world of breast cancer. Without question.

I mean, because it level.

It leveled the playing field.

Yeah.

So women with her two positive tumors before adjuvant trastuzumab, which is the generic name for Herceptin, they were, they were at 30% higher risk of, of dying of breast cancer in, in, you know, a short period of time, you know, five year survival. And so when trastuzumab came on the scene, it leveled the playing field and HER2 positive breast cancer was no longer the death sentence that it was before. And you know, I can speak from personal experience that I had a very dear friend who I treated very, very early in my career and she had metastatic breast cancer that was HER2 positive. And so, you know, now we're talking about it's got to be close to 20 years ago and she still gets her. Herceptin and she still doing just fine. So it really, really changed things for these women who would no longer be with us. And now they're, they're long term survivors and their disease is like any other chronic disease, something that, that needs attention, but that it is, it is absolutely manageable.

Yeah.

So you have a lot of gratitude for those ladies that paved this road.

I mean, to go into a trial with something that was just so, you know, fast growing cancer and to be able to make this, you know, to be a part of this discovery of Herceptin and having that work with people, I mean, it was just amazing. I'm forever grateful to them. And you know, I think, like, I thought it was a scary experience going through it, even though I had that, that data from their trials. So for them I just, I can't imagine. And I, I had watched this movie also as well. I think. I don't know if you know the one I'm talking about with Harry Connick Jr. It was like a Lifetime movie years ago about Herceptin and about the women who did this trial. I. I'm trying to remember.

I don't think I ever saw it.

Yeah, I, I saw it as I was going through.

Wait, is that the one with Angie Everhart?

You know, I'm beautiful.

Beautiful redhead.

I. I think so. Yeah. And. And I know Harry Connick Jr. Plays the doctor and like, so I think it's a very. It was a really inspiring movie. But it gave you a little bit of insight of, you know, of kind of what these women went through. And I remember watching that and just feeling like, wow. Like, I think I, like, really helped me, like, get into like, gratitude practice, which is something that has really helped me through this experience, you know, like, yeah, you know, just, I have so much gratitude that I had a cancer that was treatable. And so. Yeah.

So I want to talk about the old Carla and the new Carla. Who was the old Carla and who is the new Carla?

I think the old Carla was also a Carla that maybe didn't have as much gratitude. Just to spin that around. Like, you know, I think, like, you know, I think taking things for granted, you know, and, and you know, just kind of like focusing on not all the things that are really important to me, you know, and I think, you know, this. I, you know, now like, really being able to, like, be grateful that, you know, I can wake up in the morning and feel good, you know, and just. Just that, like, pause in the morning when you, you know, you wake up and you're like, hey, I can, like, move my body. I can. I feel good. I can get out of bed. Like, that's like a win. Like a big win, like that day, you know, like, it's. It's amazing. And I think, Yeah, I think, like, also spending time with my family and kind of realize that life isn't like, you know, there's a length here. Like, you're here for a certain amount of time and, you know, like, live it to the fullest, you know, every day.

So do you feel as if you have a different appreciation for life now? I do. Do you live and. And, and how specifically do you live your life differently now than you did then?

I've done a lot of work with boundaries, you know, and respecting the time. You know, I have the things that are so the most dearest and important to me, like my family and my partner and, you know, and that, like, I try to, like, work my boundaries around making sure other life stuff doesn't push that to the corner, you know, it's like. And not taking that all for granted, you know? And I think also, like, your. Your. Your puppy. So cute.

Thank you.

I have a few cats, you know, like, and being able to connect with my animals and. And. And. And nature and think about, like, I don't know, there's these things now that I crave every day, like going for that walk and just taking time to smell the roses. Right.

Yeah. We call that primary food. Right. All the things that nourish you, that don't have any calories.

Exactly.

And those end up. Those end up being the things that you need the most because those are the things that really fill your cup.

Yeah.

And, you know, you can't. You can't operate from an empty cup.

Yeah. And.

All the food in the world doesn't nourish you like that, right?

Yeah.

Yeah. So what's next for you? Will there be another album about breast cancer? Or is. Or is that done and something that no longer defines you?

Well, actually, you know, in the process of. So she howls, I studied a few musical therapy techniques that I incorporated in the album. Like binaural beats and trying to be in different frequencies to give this, like, get our mind into these certain states of relaxation and calm anxiety. And this has opened up a whole new world for me that I'm really excited about. So I've started working on a new album, and it's incorporating some More of these healing elements. And, you know, I won't be exactly about breast cancer, but it will be about trauma and movement. Kind of movement and stillness is where I'm going next. And how those two play with each other. Yeah. So I really love it. I'm really so, like, blown away by music therapy and what it can do to help people. So.

And it really can, right? Because just think about the feeling that you're filled with when your favorite song comes on. Think about how music can transform you. Think about how you feel when you're listening to your favorite artist. Like, the music really does transform you and you can be in a horrible mood and that song comes on and it transforms you.

Yeah. Yeah.

And so I can't wait to see what's next for you.

Thank you.

While I'm sorry for you're having to have breast cancer be the impetus for your Grammy award winning album and your shift in the way that you live your life, the new Carla is pretty great.

Thank you. Thank you.

And I hope you think so too. And you know, our diagnoses are not our blessings, but. But they are our opportunities. And when you can seize that opportunity and make greatness out of it like you have, it's really something to be admired. And I love your path forward. You're. You're paying it forward. You're sharing it with the world in a really special way and helping people to heal. And you're really taking that example of the ladies that you're so very grateful for, the ladies that paved the path for you and you're paving a path for the next generation. It's amazing.

Thank you so much. Thank you for, you know, it's amazing what you do and having me here and your book and, you know, just bringing what community together. This is amazing. So thank you for having me.

Thank you. Where can people find your album? Listen to you?

Yeah, I'm on basically all streaming platforms and my website also, if anybody likes vinyl, I have vinyl on my website too.

Wow.

Yeah, that's amazing.

For the real music lovers.

Yeah, exactly. Which is just carlapatullo.com that's my website.

Amazing.

Amazing.

Well, Carla, thank you so much for being here today and sharing your story and being vulnerable and sharing your amazing gift and amazing talent with the world. If you liked this podcast, like it and share it. And I will be here next week with another episode. Dr. Jen, bye for now.

Bye.

Thank you for joining me on this episode of the Keeping a breast podcast with Dr. Chen. I hope you found the discussion informative and empowering. Remember, breast health is health, so by staying informed and taking proactive steps, you have the power to optimize your well being. My team and I encourage you to apply the knowledge gained from today's episode to make positive changes in your life and share what you've learned with others. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe to our podcast and leave us a review. Your feedback and support mean the world to us and help us to reach more people who can benefit from these conversations. Stay connected with me on social media where I share additional resources, advice, updates and announcements related to breast health. You can find me on Facebook, Instagram and YouTube. Dr. Jensimmons and remember, my Jen has two N's, so until next time, remember to stay proactive, informed and confident in your breast health journey. The key to your health is you.

Sam.