51: The Holistic Approach to Healing Breast Cancer Naturally with Jenn Payeur

Hello and welcome to the Kenya Breast podcast with Dr. Jen. The show dedicated to empowering women through knowledge, tools and resources to take control of your breast health journey. I'm your host, Dr. Jen Simmons, and I'm thrilled to have you join me on this insightful and inspiring journey. As a breast cancer surgeon turned functional medicine physician, I'm on a mission to empower women to live their breasts and need best lives. This podcast dives deep into all topics related to breast health, including prevention, diagnosis, treatment, and holistic approaches to support overall well being.

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Breast health is health. So no matter who you are, a breast cancer survivor, newly diagnosed in treatment, living with metastatic disease, or you're simply seeking to improve your breast health, this podcast is for you. Join us on this transformative path towards better breast health and a thriving life. And now, let's get to today's episode.

Hi, it's Dr. Jen, and welcome back to another episode of the Keeping Abreast Podcast. And do I have someone special with me today? I met Jen Pear at retreat for the Holistic Leadership Council a couple of weeks ago, and I was so blown away by her story, by her person, by her presence, that I had to bring her on and share her with you today. So prepare to be blown away because you're going to be. Prepare to fall in love and prepare to be so inspired to by someone who has remade her life out of crisis, but remade her life into something so beautiful, so meaningful, and she's changing the world and she's here with us today. So, Jen, welcome.

Thank you. I am thrilled to be here with you, Dr. Jen.

Well, I'm so glad. So I'm going to start off with you are a badass banker turned healer.

Heck, yeah.

So we don't usually think of those in the same category because we think of badass bankers one way and healers another way. So can you share your story so that we can understand how both of those things can embody the same person?

Yeah, absolutely.

Or are you not the same person?

You know, I am a much improved version of the same person.

Okay.

You know, one of the things that's important to me is to always evolve. And when I look back at my childhood, I was the epitome of what you would see as a tomboy. Climbing trees, connected to nature, catching frogs and crawdads, laying in the grass, looking up at the stars. I had that childlike wonder. And I did a lot of sports outside.

Right.

So I loved being in nature and being outside. And then something shifted in me when I went to college and I graduated. So I graduated with a degree in finance. And I found myself. I love math, which is kind of unusual, but I always was really good in math.

Clearly you're not a Barbie, because Barbie said that math is hard.

Now I love math and I. And I love figuring things out. And I found myself being inside 12 to 15 hours a day under fluorescent lights. And when I was 22, I started traveling overseas. So a lot of being in. In spaces, not in natural spaces.

So I come now. Was that for work? Was your travel for work?

Yes. Yeah, that was. So I worked for an international company and, you know, literally was traveling over to Europe pretty regularly every couple of months. And I just found myself in confined spaces, either inside, sitting at a desk or sitting on a plane. And you know something in that shift, I lost a part of myself, right? I lost that gregarious, curious tomboy and really just kind of. I don't know, the way I describe it, as I put blinders on because it became so focused and heads down on achievement and doing a good job and all of the things, you know, being the star, star worker. I still did play a lot of sports up until I was about 40, my early 40s.

What were your sports?

I had that. I played volleyball and soccer and softball very competitively until I was on crutches more than I was not. That's when I decided it was time for me to step away.

Hang up your cleats. Yeah.

And so. And then, you know, the universe works its magic, as it always does. And I had two major health crises. And the first one is what catapulted me. That was in 2008, catapulted me into the healing realms. And I had this, like, I was living a double life. I say, you know, it's kind of like the spy who was still banker by day and healer on weekends and at night. And each time I took a class, I went through a four year healing school. I gained another piece of myself. And so what I say is the banker healer was losing myself, unraveling this constructed part of me and coming back to a newer version of me.

Yeah. So what happened in 2008?

2008, I was working 20 hours a day. How is that even possible?

Oh, God.

And I had two very senior executive roles at a bank here, locally in Charlotte. And I was traveling to Boston every week and sleeping three hours a night. And I went to a, you know, a conventional. He was actually an internist, a doctor. And his words to me were, if you don't change your life, you will not be on this planet in five years. And at that point, I had pneumonia, bronchitis, shingles, tachycardia, mono, and finally diagnosed with chronic fatigue. And what's fascinating about that journey is I knew I had lymph nodes the size of golf balls in my neck, like, literally sticking out of my neck. And I overrode my body. My body was like, hello, you know, you need rest. You need to slow down the stress.

Yeah. Your body was screaming at you.

Yes.

Screaming. Yeah.

And I went like this.

Did you listen? No. No, of course I didn't. Because you thought you were invincible or because the pain wasn't enough yet?

Because something in me and I. And I. This is really important because I think this is a big part of the cancer journey. Something in me was still trying to prove my worthiness and my worth. So it wasn't. I wasn't doing it out of ego. I was doing it out of wanting to be seen and heard and appreciated and valued and working hard. I got lots of accolades. I got value. I felt good, and that's what allowed me to. That. That need to be seen and heard overrode my body screaming at me.

Yeah, yeah. So it was the external validation that. That compelled you to stay?

Yes, absolutely.

How old were you at this point? Not to. Not to out you or show you. Yeah, no, no, no.

Yeah. No, I was 40. I was 40. Yeah. 40. 41 when that happened.

So you didn't listen. You kept burning your candle at both ends. I mean, I'm sure you. You did a little because you were. You were seeing conventional doctors, so you got treated for your pneumonia, your bronchitis. They don't really do anything to treat your mono or shingles, and they diagnose you with chronic fatigue and maybe put you on some antidepressants or what. Whatever they did at that point. What happened?

So in 2012, when I graduated healing school, I left. I exited corporate, and for three years, I had a healing practice. I had balance in my life. And at that point, I had been diagnosed with dcis, which is the ductal carcinoma in situ, as you know.

Yes.

And for sure, that was a fallout of just the immune system shut down. Right.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, it can only keep up for so long. Right. Like, you can't. You can't fight a war on every front for a long time, and when you do that, one of the fronts is going to fail. So, you know, we talk about this all the time. We make cancer cells in our Body, the very young to the very old, everyone in between. We make them every single day. And because we make reproductive mistakes, like no one's perfect. Right. But an intact immune system will recognize those cancer cells in their infancy and destroy them. But if your immune system is fighting it on every front, it can't do the preventative care that it needs to do. And so that's essentially what happens. And that's why people get diagnoses. It's not that they have encountered more toxins than someone else. I mean, they might have. But the bigger problem is that our immune system essentially gives out. Our immune system is just not able to keep up with the toxic load. That's why the breast is one of the canaries in the coal mine. The breast and the thyroid are the canaries in the coal mine.

Yeah.

So you get a diagnosis of dcis, Then what?

I did the traditional thing. I did a biopsy. So I did a core needle biopsy. I had a line of calcified cells on my right breast, and they took 25 tissue samples on both sides of those calcified cells. So much so that years later, when I had my second health crisis.

One.

Of the practitioners asked me if I'd had a mastectomy, and I said no. And she said, oh, my gosh, they took so much breast tissue.

I was gonna ask you, was there anything left after 25 samples? Actually, that's the most I've ever heard. That essentially was a lumpectomy.

That was a lumpectomy in two spots. Right. So they did it in two. I had a line of calcified cells. They did 25 tissues on both ends.

Okay. We won't even get the why of that, because I am insane. I have no words for taking that many samples. It makes no sense at all. Okay, so.

And that was 2012. So in 2012, aside from that, I was offered a lumpectomy, which I chose to decline.

Well, you already. You already had one.

I know. Yes. Unbeknownst to me, I had had one. And that. That was a huge turning point for me, because then I realized, wow, I've got an immune system issue going on here. I've got a major stress thing going on. And so I really just started to massively change my lifestyle. I started meditating. You know, I was always a pretty healthy eater as an adult, so I didn't have to change much there. But I did incorporate more LE screens and things like that, and life was fabulous for three years. Amazing. So every six months, I went in and got a checkup from my doctor.

And what did that look like? Was that a. Was that a mammogram?

No, no, no. At that point I said, no mammogram. So it was an ultrasound. Okay, it was an ultrasound. And what he kept telling me is, next time you come in, you are going to have a tumor. And every six months I went in, no tumor. Everything in my body, I think, was pretty balanced.

Had you what, what happened with work during that time? How did you start to balance work?

Well, I left corporate, so I had a healing practice. I was working, you know, 9 to 4 o' clock every day, and I was home for my teenage children and life was pretty amazing.

And.

And then the big kahuna came.

But, you know, even. Even in 2012, when you declined lumpectomy, like, that takes a lot of guts. That takes a lot of faith, confidence, because you're really. I mean, how did your doctor respond to your declining lumpectomy? Because I think this is something that a lot of women struggle with, that their doctors really pressure them to undergo the conventional treatment. And they scare them. They scare them.

Yes, I'm very fortunate because I'm intuitive. And I had started through the meditation and the time that I had stepped away, really started trusting my intuition. And something in me just knew this isn't right for me. And so that's what I shared. I think using my voice was hugely healing. And like you said, you know, it's like diagnosis, get a lumpectomy, get a mastectomy, go, go, go, go.

Right.

And you get kind of ushered into this funnel. You know, it's really a funnel. And I was very fortunate to have a doctor, you know, surgeon who said, okay, you know, this is slow growing. I'm happy to support what you are choosing to do, but I want you to come in every six months for an ultrasound. And I said, done and done.

Okay, good. So you're on the, you're on the ultrasound, follow up, treadmill. Yep. What happened?

Yep, life was great. And then I had a vision of wearing suits. And two weeks after that, this was in 2015, so three years after pretty, you know, no progress, no growth, an old boss called me and asked me to come back into a corporate role. And I said yes.

What made you say yes?

I think I trust. Like, why was I having a vision of wearing suits? Yeah, I think I had more to learn. You know, just put it that way. I had more to learn in my healing process. There was still some unfinished business in my unraveling. And so I accepted the job. I started May 1, 2015. And in July, I was at the top of Machu Picchu on a spiritual retreat. And I literally heard as loud as a voice as I've ever heard. Get to a doctor now. And I had had a lymph node. So three months after going back to a corporate job, I had stage four breast cancer.

Wow.

If that's not a sign.

So what did you do? You came home and went to your doctor and said, I just feel like something's wrong.

Well, I had a lymph node. My axial axillary lymph node was, you know, about the size of a pretty big bullet. Didn't have any on the side of.

The previous DCIS or on the other side.

Same side, same side. And so I. I came off that mountain and I had watched the Truth About Cancer docuseries maybe six months prior. And I remember seeing this doctor, and I said, I'm going to meet him someday. And for some reason, I thought it would be in the healing. You know, in the healing, I'd be at a conference or something, and I'd run into him. I came off the mountain and I called his office and I said, I would like to schedule an appointment. And his admin said, well, he's booked out a year. And I said, I think I have serious cancer. Can I get in? And he was in New Mexico. I live in North Carolina. So this is another big lesson in this process. So she said, can you get out here next week?

And who is this? Who are we talking about?

This is Dr. Sunil Pai. So he was in the original Truth About Cancer. He's a naturopath, also an ayurvedic doctor. And I went out to see him a week later, and he had a. A peer who could actually do a fine needle biopsy. And, and, and read the report at the same time. So he sent me to. Who said, yes, you absolutely have something cancering in your body. And he sent me over to this woman, and she's the one who had thought I'd had a vasectomy. Fine needle biopsy. She came back and said, yes, it's cancer. Yes, it's in your lymph nodes and it's most likely in your liver. And she said, you know, here are your options.

So what options did she give you?

She was recommending I go on. So Herceptin.

Herceptin, is that right?

So I was her two positive, estrogen, progesterone negative. And I knew immediately I did not want to go on a drug she had recommended That I do a mastectomy. And she was not pushing me in any way. So she said, go do your research. And one of the best things Dr. Pye told me when I left that week is he said, jennifer, I will support whatever path you choose, Whether it's a natural way or the western way, I will support you. But before you do anything, read this book, Tripping over the Truth. And that changed everything for me. That book empowered me to know that I absolutely 100% was dealing with an immune system issue and that the treatments that I was being offered, I saw two different, you know, got two different opinions in North Carolina. I knew then that those would further suppress my immune system. And that was not my path. So I did. I did choose to do a mastectomy Today, almost nine years later, I would not make that choice for myself because I think I could have resolved it naturally. But it was one of those things where it was like, oh, my God.

You very much get caught up in the fear, and you get caught up in the I have to do something now. And that feels like an immediate solution. And it's often presented in a way that you think that time is your enemy, Right.

You think that you are told time is your enemy, right?

Yeah. You're like, put on the clock, right?

Yes.

The clock starts now. And what's so interesting to me is that for most people, when the cancer is discovered, it's been there for years, and suddenly it's diagnosed and it's an emergency.

Yes.

Right. Like that fire.

Fire.

That's always so amazing to me. And the other. The other part that's amazing to me is, you know, when I was a surgeon, there was months waiting list to come see me, and yet somehow no one's clock started to tick until they saw me. Right. Like all of a sudden, now. Now starts the two weeks in which you have to have surgery or the seven weeks in which you have to have radiation. And so it's so amazing to me that we have not. We have not thought about that and fixed that yet. That. That we don't. But I think that doctors are a little afraid to give women the time and space to. To think about that and make their own decision, because I think they're afraid that if they take the time to think about it, they won't come back. They won't do it. Right. And so they capitalize on the right now. And you need this now, and we have to schedule you now. And then people are afraid. And listen, even people close to me who have me as A resource who can call me and get my opinion. They get so scared when they go to the doctor that they, like, feel pressured. So that pressure is very real. Tell me what moved you so much when you read Tripping over the Truth? What was so inspirational to you?

The book does a really good job of explaining how the standard of care came about and what each of those options really do to your body.

Yeah.

So for example, chemotherapy is mustard gas. Well, no wonder your nerve endings get, you know, destroyed.

Yeah.

And many other things. Right.

Yeah.

And so, and so. And you know, and I knew radiation caused cancer and I'm thinking, wow. So the book does a really good job of laying out how the standard of care came about. How many of these modalities have been around, We've been using them for 100 years and they haven't evolved really, and.

They haven't improved survival.

Correct.

And I think that that is a message that is so lost in that people think that they're getting these different treatment modalities. Like radiation is a perfect example. And we've had many studies come out over the last year that show that radiation does increase survival. That should be everyone's end game. Everyone.

Yes.

The only, the only thing that matters is, does this increase survival? And then the second question you have to ask is, at what cost? At what cost does it increase survival? Because if you're going to, if you're going to live but not have any quality of life, did we really help that person?

Right.

The other thing that often gets lost in all of these conventional therapies is they can say it will decrease your risk of dying of breast cancer. And that may be true. But if it increases your risk of dying of heart disease, did we really help that person? Because women treated with the conventional therapies for breast cancer have a two to three time risk of dying of heart disease. So we really, we need so much more informed consent and honesty when we talk to women about these conventional treatments. And it's not happening. Which is why I wrote my book, the Smart Woman's Guide to Breast Cancer. Because I, I think that we owe it to people for them to have informed consent, for them to understand what these treatments are and what they will actually do and what they won't do.

Right.

So. Because if you're going to accept this, you ought to accept this in an educated, informed way. Right.

Well, and there's another piece of this puzzle. So I obviously, I had cancer in my lymphatic system, in my lymph nodes. I had it in my Liver. And, you know, they wanted to do the. The. What is it called? The axillary, where they take all your.

Yeah, an axillary dissection.

Yeah. And I was again, very fortunate that I was able to use my voice. And I do believe that was part of the healing where I told my surgeon, no, you're not taking. I said, aren't my lymph nodes my garbage system to help get toxins out of my body? And if you take that out, then how will toxins get out of my body? And I was so fortunate because she came back to me and she said, okay. She actually told me she was a pretty incredible surgeon. She said, I've learned so much from you because, you know, first they wanted to put the marker in my breast. And I said, but you're taking the breast tissue. Why would you put a marker in? You know, so I. I be. My folder was this thick. But she came back to me and she said, okay, here's the deal. She said, I'm going against standard of care and doing this, but I will go in and I will feel every lymph node from the one that we. They did remove the one to get the biopsy. And she said, and anything that's bigger than a grain of rice, I really feel compelled to pull out. And if it's not, I'll leave it there. But know that it's going to double your time under, because it's going to be a manual. I said, done and done. So they ended up taking two other lymph nodes. So I had three lymph nodes in total versus 32 that would have been taken out. And I recovered so quickly. I didn't. I didn't make. Take any pain meds. The next day I was up walking around, and in that moment, I knew, like, I had been given a 23% chance to survive in five years. And I love. You know, I'm just like, really? How do you know? Well, that's just the statistics. And I said, okay, well, I'm not. I'm not a statistic, and I'm not standard, so I'm throwing out your. Your, you know, your percentage and you. From that point on, everything became about reducing stress and building up my immune system. And I did finally leave corporate for good. After I went through that process. I needed the insurance, which is a whole other conversation, but I was able to step away from that, and I have been healthy and thriving since.

So that's really amazing. What there's a. There's an awesome book by Kelly Turner. Called radical remission. And then she wrote radical hope afterwards. And these were the 10 things that people who made radical remissions or had radical remissions had in common. And they talk about things like diet and movement and spirituality and toxin avoidance and, you know, all the things, stress management, all the things that we talk about. What do you think it was for you specifically? What did you change afterwards? What message did you hear, and what did you change afterwards that made the difference for you? Because as you know, this statistic, most women do not survive stage four breast cancer. So what. What do you think was the turning point for you, and how did you reclaim your health?

The biggest turning point was developing a daily spiritual practice. So I started meditating. And in that period of time, I made a commitment to myself. So clearly I'm type A, and I'm really good at committing to everybody else. I'm a mom of four kids, I'm a wife, and I made the commitment to me, and that was, I'm going to show up for me every day. And that changed everything because then I started listening to my body. Then I was in tune with nature again. I started getting outside and reconnecting to that little girl and told her, it's safe, it's safe, it's okay, and you don't have to prove your worth. You're worthy. And so I did a lot of internal work on, you know, shifting the. The programming so that I wasn't out there literally killing myself to prove my worth.

So those are two. I. I wrote down two words from what you just said. I wrote down safe, and I wrote down worthy. And I'd like to unpack that a little bit, because cancer is a normal response to an abnormal environment. And what happens with most, with most people, not everyone, but with most people, is that their macro environment, what they're surrounding themselves with, translates into an abnormal transformation of their internal environment. And it goes from an environment that fosters health and fosters joy to an environment that fosters illness, Essentially an unsafe environment. So what happens when you're in an unsafe environment? You go into survival mode, right? You lived in survival mode for a very long time, because anyone who is sleeping three hours a night, you are in survival mode. Our body, we are modern beings living on a very old gene code. We only understand safety and danger. Your body was in danger, danger, danger, right? And so when you're in danger and you go into survival mode, that's essentially what a cancer is. Just reproduce, reproduce, reproduce. Don't care if we're making mistakes doesn't have to be perfect. We just need to stay alive at this point, right?

Yes.

So when you use that word safe, and when you told your body that it's safe, it's okay, everything's okay. You don't have to be in survival mode. I've got you. Right. This is a very important message, a very important message to both say, to believe, so that that translates, and it shifts your chemistry from that survival chemistry to the chemistry of joy, of safety. So safety. It's really amazing you use that word safe.

Yes. Yeah, I was just gonna say lucky for me. As I started to reconnect to nature, I started seeing these hummingbirds every. I mean, they would just show up and flutter in front of me. And hummingbirds, if you follow animal totems, they represent joy. And that was. That was another piece of the puzzle, was when you're in survival mode, you're just doing, doing, doing.

Right?

And I asked myself one day, what would happen if I changed my measuring stick not to what did I get done today? But how much joy did I have in my life today? And for two weeks, I was so depressed because even the things that I love to do, like cook from scratch, didn't bring me joy, because it became another thing on the to do list.

Right?

Somebody who was traveling, taking care of kids, packing lunches, doing all this stuff, it became another to do, another survival thing. And so when I had that, aha. After two weeks of measuring, how much joy did I have today? I went, oh, my gosh, I have so much work to do. And then I literally started living my life that way. Is every day I commit to having joy and being joyful. And if something's not bringing me joy, then it's not aligned to who I am today, and I'm letting it go.

I love what you said there so much. And asking yourself at the end of the day, how much joy did I have today? And if you didn't have it, making sure that tomorrow is that you're you. You can't. You can't drink from an empty cup, right?

Correct.

And we have to fill that cup with joy, because that's what this life is about. Now, I'm not saying, like, to hell with everything, because tomorrow we die. And, like, you know, you should go spend your. The rest of your life on a beach with a margarita. Because we get joy from a lot of things. We get joy from the service of others. We know that people who volunteer, people who help other people, they actually have increased survival and longevity, and they have A better appreciation for life because it's in the service of others that we heal.

Absolutely.

So I love the measurement of joy and, and it being a conscious thing that you're seeking it and not the kind of hedonistic joy that comes from like the quick, the quick thing that, the drink, the, you know, whatever, but that, but that eudenistic joy that comes from doing things with real meaning, connection to God, connection to nature, having beautiful relationships like this. This is where true joy comes from.

Yes, absolutely.

And then you use the word worthy. So is there a time in your life when you felt unworthy?

Oh, most of my life, yes. So I had a lot of trauma.

A lot of work around that.

Yeah, I had a lot of trauma in my childhood and you know, obviously there was healing that needed to happen and you know, I had a lot of shame. I carried a lot of these, you know, negative, low vibration emotions as a result of the trauma in my childhood. And again when I had that God moment of wow, you don't feel worthy. Your worthiness is not tied to what you do. Your worthiness is tied to who you be, who are you? And that's, that's who I got to create, you know, a relationship with. And you had asked me at the beginning, Dr. Jen, what, you know, is it, was it me or is it a new me or the old me? I mean, I think who I am today is innately who I've always been. I just got covered up with emotional tar and doing and all of the things in life that I was flogging.

You got hijacked for a little bit.

Yeah, yeah.

You were kidnapped for a little bit.

Yeah, yeah.

And you know what? I think that happens to a lot of people. I think we get lost and we do seek out external validation and absolutely. If you have childhood trauma, it's super duper important to work through that. And there are many, many ways to do that, but it is important to do that. And then at the end of the day, the things that you talked about, there is no amount of external validation that is going to replace what you do for you. There's no.

It will never fill your.

Never, never. And you will never feel worthy if all you're getting is external validation because there's no one that can make you worthy but you. And everyone has worth. I think a lot of us, we get lost along the way and we forget that each and every one of us was put here by God with a unique purpose. And I am not supposed to be the best version of you any more. Than you're supposed to be the best version of me. We're all supposed to be the best version of ourselves. And each and every one of us has a unique, intentional, and very important purpose on this work in this world. Right. We are all put here for a reason. And all you need to do is fulfill your purpose, not anyone else's. And we can't do it for anyone else. We have to do it for ourselves. And when we do it for ourselves, our everyone else benefits. Right? Yes. So you're doing something pretty important now.

I am.

And you're back in your own version of the corporate world, but you're writing the rules this time. So tell, tell us about what you're doing first. I want to know how you even discovered this. So take us back to how you discovered what you're doing now.

Okay. So I, you know, when I mentioned that I started going into the different healing modalities, one of those was learning about essential oils. So I used to teach a three day class about essential oils. And I really, this is a unique, A unique gift that I now have. But I started channeling the plants. So I would be sitting down and I would literally start to hear like lemongrass say, oh, I can help with this. And I would kind of look around like, what. What is going on here? You know, that's not the banker. 29 year banker. Right. It doesn't make sense. And so I challenged it for a little bit and then I said, okay, just let it be. It is what it is. You can hear the plants talking to you. That's okay. You don't have to tell anybody about it because it's a little strange. So I had been working with essential oils, and in 2018, I was visiting a friend and my cancer marker started going back up. So I had left corporate. In 2017, I was on the other side of all of the cancer modalities that I was doing to help heal my body. And my cancer markers were going up. And I was really stumped because I felt like I had everything aligned in my life. And I said, okay, there's something more here. So while I'm visiting this friend in Dallas, her husband comes out and he has this bottle and he says, jennifer, this has saved a lot of my patients lives. And I'm like, oh, that's great. What is it? You know, very casual. And he said, it's embryonic plant stem cells. And as soon as he said it, the only way I can describe it is I had a visceral, I had goosebumps. All over my body. And I felt like this lightning bolt came through my crown and into my body. And I turned around and I looked at him and I said, how can I know more? I have to know more. I became like a dog with a bone. And at this point, I had left corporate and I really had not found my, you know, my next whatever. And I was doing a lot of volunteer work and filling up my time that way, but I hadn't really did not have guidance on where do I go from here. And anyway, long story short, he said, well, there's going to be a training in three months in Hawaii in January of 2019. And I said, I have to go, I have to go. And he said, well, it's for doctors and you're not a doctor, but you are a holistic health practitioner, so just call them and ask if they have room. And of course they did. And so In January of 2019, I flew to Hawaii. And it turns out, and this is the only reason I presence the essential oils. It turns out that 65% of the class was about the plants. And I knew a lot about plants. I knew a lot about their chemical constituents and why rosemary could help heal the liver and also help you grow hair, right? So I was like this, I was in that state of wonder, like a kid in a candy store with like hanging onto every word that this guy was talking about. And what's fascinating when I look back, he had no product, so I had no experiential and I'm a very experiential learner. So it was all PowerPoints in one way, information. And I got on the plane and I got this massive download because on the last day of class, this guy said, I'm going to be selling my company. And here came that bolt of lightning that goosebumps all over my body. I got on the plane and I meditated the whole ride home. And I said, all right, God, what does this mean? And I heard you are going to be a steward for these plants. This is an ancient remedy that has been lost and your role is going to be to birth and bring these out to the world. Small task.

Yeah, not much. Not much.

So I got home and I looked at my husband, I said, guess what? I think we're going to be buying a plant stem cell company. And he's like, what are you talking about? Like, you're crazy. And so I literally meditated every day and prayed every for a month. And then after a month, I picked up the phone and I called this man who hosted the class. And I said, I'm pretty sure I'm supposed to be buying your company. And he said, well, I have two other buyers. And I said, but I am supposed to bring these out to the world, and so will you work with me? And so he put me on a protocol, and two months later, my cancer markers were in the normal range again.

Wow.

And my cholesterol, like all of the things that had been slightly out of balance, all came into balance. And I knew without a shadow of a doubt in that moment, this. This is my mission and my purpose. And it brought me back to that young child who was so connected to nature and had such a love for it. Like, I have such a love. These are baby plants, and they. I just have such a love for them when I see how they support healing the body and bringing the body back into balance.

Are you. So where. Where are you now? Did you buy the company in 2019 and what's happening now?

Yeah, I bought the company in August 2019, and I've been the CEO and founder of a company called Nature Provides. There's a hyphen in there.

I love that name.

And that was another, you know, totally God thing. And so I have been working on connecting with practitioners, and really, my mission is educating. So I focus a lot on education because I do believe. Just so your audience knows, plant stem cells are the new growth on the plant in the springtime and in that stage of growth. So it's like the buds on the trees right now that we're seeing in this time of year that contains something called juvenile phytohormones that don't exist in adult plants. So, you know, plants, just like people, we collect heavy metals. We are weathered by life in this. In this phase. It's kind of the equivalent. The analogy I use is like, broccoli sprouts are so much more powerful than eating broccoli. Right. They're both amazing. But in the sprout form, you're getting different constituents than you get when you're eating a normal head of broccoli. And it's the same thing. So you're getting these. These juvenile phytohormones that are basically cleaning the toxic load out of your cells and your tissue and your organs, and then they're regenerating your cells. So where I had an issue in the immune system is I still carried a very toxic load in my body, and that's why my markers were going up, because I never addressed my mitochondria and that toxic load. And the plant Stem cells. Clean that up for me. And that's when I started. My health really started thriving. And that started in 2019.

And so is it still something? Do you take them every day? Do you take them when you feel like you need them, or how does that work?

I take them every day because I believe that we live in a very toxic world. I mean, I don't drink tap water. I'm very conscious about what I put in my body. And also on my body, I don't use chemicals on my yard, you know, so I'm pretty clean. But I do travel.

Me neither. I have the ugliest yard in the neighborhood. I think people hate me. I won't do it.

I have three.

Yeah, I have three dogs and two kids and five grandchildren. And there's no way that I'm letting them on a lawn that's full of chemicals.

Yes. Yes. So, yes, to answer your question, I do take them every day. I take them preventatively. And what I do is I rotate different systems in my body. So I'll work on my heart, I'll work on my liver, I'll work on my gut. And that just feels good to me. I'm a gardener. I like to rotate. You rotate crops when you plant them. So this is my terrain, and I like to rotate what I'm working on.

Do you still use essential oils in your practice?

I do, because I do, you know, and I do carry a line of organic essential oils. There are a lot of companies out there. It was really more of a hobby and a longing for me to connect with a very clean line. And so my husband's French Canadian. He found a co op in Canada, and so that's where I get my essential oils. And so the way I describe it is I use essential oils outside in, and the plants themselves help inside out.

Wow, that's amazing. So for someone that is in a similar situation to where you were in 2018 and is faced with what seems like a terminal diagnosis, what advice do you have for them?

Don't rush into anything. Educate yourself. You are your own advocate, and you're going to be the best advocate for you more than anybody else. And trust yourself. And I think the last piece, Dr. Jen, is these bodies are incredible. When I look at the. What I've put my body through over the years and how it stuck with me and it actually has healed and now it's thriving. Like, our bodies know how to heal. And I think our bodies are always trying to heal. So if we are willing to slow down, listen, our Bodies tell us.

Yep, I couldn't agree more. We have an amazing capacity for healing, and we actually are perfectly designed by our creator. And it's the things that we do and the things that we encounter that get in the way of our health. And for most people, reclaiming your health requires the thing that you did the most. Slowing down, getting back to joy, filling your body with what it needs, and getting rid of those things that are interfering with your health. There's no path to health if you're working 20 hours a day. Right. And I love how much you dialed into that inner voice. And instead of seeing yourself as a crazy person, you embraced it. Because our body is sending us messages all the time. And when we don't listen to the whispers, we get screams. Because our body really does want to heal. We have tremendous capacity for healing, but we have to listen. We have to listen to our body and what it's telling us, and we have to do that and appreciate that and foster and nurture. So I love your story. I love that you shared all of this with us today. Where can people learn more about Nature.

Provides so they can go to nature provides.com that hyphen. I had somebody who told me me once, if you look at a tombstone, the dash is the life you've lived before and after. And so I love that. So there's a hyphen between the two. We have a lot of information and resources there. And again, I'm a big educator, and that's. That's my passion.

Amazing. Amazing. And we'll. We'll be sure to link everything in the show notes. I thank you so much for being here today, for sharing your story. It is incredibly inspirational, and you are a shining example of what is possible. And I hope that people really hear you for many reasons. First of all, as a cautionary tale that we're not meant to work inside for 12 to 20 hours a day. We're meant to be outside. We're meant to be in the sunshine. We're meant to. You know, that whole villainization of the sun has only increased cancer rates like sunscreen and. And working inside, and we have more cancer than ever. So we need to be outside. We need to be in touch with nature, and we need to have joy in our lives, like all work and. No.

I recently came across a term, you know, fomo. Fear of missing out. Jomo. Joy of missing out. So don't miss the joy.

Don't miss the joy.

For sure.

Incredibly, don't. Don't miss the joy. Don't spare the joy. And it's very important to live in today, right? And to appreciate today and to make every day worthwhile. Because that's what it's all about. So get outside, get into nature, get your hugs, tell the people in your life that you love them and show them love and show love to other people. Because that's really where our soul heals. It's in the giving to others. I love everything that we talked about today. I'm so grateful for your time. I love your story. Make sure that you guys check out Nature Provides. And if you liked this podcast, please share it with someone who you think needs to hear it. Because it's only through inspirational stories like this that we're all going to help to heal each other. I will see you next week, same time. It's Dr. Jen. Bye for now.

Thank you.

Thank you for joining me on this episode of the Keeping a breast podcast with Dr. Chen. I hope you found the discussion informative and empowering. Remember, breast health is health, so by staying informed and taking proactive steps, you have the power to optimize your well being. My team and I encourage you to apply the knowledge gained from today's episode to make positive changes in your life and share what you've learned with others. If you enjoyed this episode episode, please subscribe to our podcast and leave us a review. Your feedback and support mean the world to us and help us to reach more people who can benefit from these conversations. Stay connected with me on social media where I share additional resources, advice, updates and announcements related to breast health. You can find me on Facebook, Instagram and YouTube. Dr. Jenn Simmons and remember, MyGen has two anchors, so until next time, remember to stay proactive, informed and confident in your breast health journey. The key to your health is you.